First off, this is an editorial which expresses the opinion of a single person. If you like WoW and are playing WoW currently, the expansion will be fantastic. If you have grown tired of the game, then there is nothing being added that will hold your interest long term. This can be said of almost all games and all expansions.
There are a couple items, however, that I believe are overlooked in the article.
First, this is the first expansion of WoW and it comes 2 years after release. Most recent MMOGs have offered their first expansion in less time. This is both good and bad. It means that the original content and that which has been added as free updates has been enough to sustain the rather large player base that is currently in the game. It also means that you have a much higher concentration of people at end game and the expectations of what is added will be higher.
This leads to my second point which was the comparison of The Burning Crusade to DAOC's Trials of Atlantis. Trials of Atlantis was not DAOC's first expansion. DAOC's first expansion (Shrouded Isles) did offer new classes, but aside from that, it was basically just more of the same DAOC that you already had. So comparing Burning Crusade to Trials of Atlantis is in my opinion not an apples to apples comparison.
Now, an interesting area of debate that I seldom see explored is one addressing the topic of what the role of an expansion should be. Do we really want expansions that radically shift the game? Isn't that a sign that the release game wasn't done well enough? When, as a gamer, do you acknowledge that you have simply outgrown a title versus expecting that a development team is going to be able to rekindle the same feeling of 'new' with an expansion pack? Let's face it, no expansion pack will ever hold our interest or provide the same types of challenges as those first couple months of playing a brand new title.
So again, it is an editorial and everyone is entitled to their opinion. I just wonder if more often than not we as gamers need to step back and analyze if our opinions aren't being driven by our expectations which are founded in a sometimes unrealistic zeal.
They're probably working on new features like that... but it takes a lot of time to develop things like that. I'm pretty sure it won't be too long before a new expansion is announced.
I have an opinion, so don't flame me.. Just thoughts/wishes that the expansion could of had.
1.) Mages would get a critter/creature something to command. I don't mean they should have (3) like EQ has, but something to roll along side of the Squishy.
If it would take cutting a tad into our spell tree to balance this.. fine! At least that way it would be different AND.. Interesting.
2.) Have a Enchanter Class with a 'Sword/Shield' Animation (or something like that) That would of really fit into the Jewelry Crafting that is coming out.
3.) Let Hunters be able to once again.. tame Unique creatures! Damn.. I will always remember that "Z-Snake" they were able to tame eons ago! All we get to tame are the hum/drum critters.. how about something new Blizzard?!
Welp.. As least I can wish, can't I? Hehe
As far as the rest goes.. I am happy with what is coming out. I still love/hate this game & probably will until the time comes I want to quit.
Originally posted by Ranak1 They're probably working on new features like that... but it takes a lot of time to develop things like that. I'm pretty sure it won't be too long before a new expansion is announced.
Considering how long it took for BC to come out I wouldn't get my hopes up to be frank. Savour this one and be thankful for it, lol.
It's better be hated for who you are, than loved for who you aren't.
'As much as people thought Dark Age of Camelot was ruined by Trials of Atlantis, you must admit it added great changes for characters in the game'
This says it all for me. You don't bring out an expansion to 'ruin' a game. You bring it out to earn revenue. WoW does not need more people, it needs to retain who they have. Therefore they are not aiming for nearly all of the posters on this forum but rather those who are still playing. So, rule number 1 is; never alter what you have unless you can with certainty determine that this will 'improve' your product. You can't do that with over 6 million players (look at the diverse views just on this forum). So you go for option 2 which is; do the same again with some minor enhancements that are enough to warrant existing players paying out more cash. There you go.
On a different note. It seems wierd to me this emphasis on high level characters. So what if there is nothing much to do when you've got to the top? It seems to me that playing a game is about a fun process, not a fun end point. I think this is what many reviewers miss. If all the fun comes at the end of character development then only a dedicated few will get there (look at how Asian MMOs don't do very well here). WoW was able to make this process relatively fun for lots of people, just means the end part is less so.
Finally, please let's judge games by the standards that they set themselves. Only then can we get meaningful reviews. WoW was designed from the ground up to be accessible, if this means 'simple' for some people then that is what they did. To then critizise it on the grounds that it is 'simple' kind of misses the point. Like saying that AC/DC are too rock when you wanted some country and western.
Originally posted by Gorukha Originally posted by Ranak1 They're probably working on new features like that... but it takes a lot of time to develop things like that. I'm pretty sure it won't be too long before a new expansion is announced.
Considering how long it took for BC to come out I wouldn't get my hopes up to be frank. Savour this one and be thankful for it, lol. o ya, theyll anounce it soon enough, but seriously, they are blizzard lol. wait a few years and it might come out, just b glad its not a console game and will b delayed till next generation lol.
I don't often wander these forums anymore, but after checking my e-mail this morning I happened to notice the burning crusade editoral and thought to myself I'd check it out. I was perticulary interested because the person who wrote it isn't in beta and I kinda am. I will say this much, the writer has one thing right, TBC's grind is more of the same wow we've come to expect. Now that isn't to say there aren't changes, there are a ton, and more than just 10 more levels, new items, and new spells, but they're just not substancal enough to say that they change the leveling game enough. As for raiding we'll have to wait and see, blizzard currently has a level 67 cap on us, and untlll thats lifted I won't be able to report back with any more information.
Now many of you have suggested that blizzard isn't listening to their player base and that is simply not true. I don't say this as a fan boy, something I"m sure all be called for daring to make such a statement, I say this from looking at the design of outland. People are complaining about no world PVP. Well now every zone has a pvp objective. Sure it's not an epic battlefield, but it's there and there are more than one quest that involves players getting thrown into the fray. So hopefuly people will gain something more out of the experance, and pve people might dare risk flipping their flag on for a little exp. Is this system as interesting as DAOC's tower and relic system? No. Is it a step in the right dirrection? I believe so.
In addition to the world pvp objectives blizzard has also removed their ladder pvp system, although ranks are still retained to provide people with a status symbol, in favor of using a honor as currencey system. This system allows players to save up honor earned and use it, when they would like, to purchase items at the pvp shop. which is good for both casual and hardcore players alike.
Players complain that wow is a solo grind, well guys TBC's mobs are much tougher than the mobs we knew from Azeroth. Now I'm not saying that they're get a full party ready hard, but they are hard enough that grouping with another player is a good idea, but not a necessary one. Although on a personal note, had they changed the game so that it was no longer soloable, I don't think I would be playing it anymore and neither would a vast majory of the seven million people who currently play the game. As such I think they made a wise desicion in ignoring your claims.
As to the people who don't enjoy end game raiding, we'll have to wait and see. I simply don't have enough information at this current time to be able to tell you if that changed or not. (Although I serriously doubt it)
As I'm starting to question why I'm writing this instead of playing the game I'm going to skip the info and go straight to the point. Fans of the warcraft game will love it. It takes everything you like about wow and then gives alot more. People who left the game because they ran out of stuff to do. People whoenjoyed playing WOW for leveling and small groups should also pick it up as TBC's lands are vast, think three strangle thorn vales per zone, beautiful, save hellfire penisula (SP) which looks kinda like the blasted lands if painted by salvadore dolly, and interesting. Sure it might not be the life obession you desire, but it's a great deal of fun and really for 40 bucks it's cheaper and has more depth than most games that come out these days. As for those who left wow because they geniunely didn't like it, or because you like another game more, may I suggest staying with your old title and not bothering with TBc. It's not so diffrent that it's likely to change your mind anytime soon.
One last thing I will mention before I log to not check this forum for another month. People remember and opinion is an opinion, and unless you serroulsy think you have some light to shed on a topic, please refrain from posting every thought that runs through your head. Sure you don't like WOW, or you did but you don't anymore because you got sick of raiding, then thats fine, but why do you think you to to write that down and post it for all to see. Chances are you are not important enough for people who disagree with you to care, and the only thing you do is get other yes men to appear and spout their uninteresting opinions as well. Had this been an artical been called, "why you left wow" I coudl see why you'd right down your opinions, but as it's not please try and keep the thread looking forward at BC instead of backwords at why you left warcraft.
Originally posted by Pikup What a surprise. People who don't care for the game speculating how they will not care for the expansion. I've played games (EQ) that are "hard". Where a mistimed lag spike or server dissconnect could cost you a weeks worth of leveling and possibly the loss of your gear. No thanks I'll pass. I've played games (SWG) where the developer decided to add "exciting" changes to the entire way you play the game. Again no thanks. If you don't like Wow please go review and play something else. It meets mine and 6 million other peoples needs for evening entertainment just fine.
Congratulations - u made me register an account here, was just a casual browser....but had to reply.
I suggest you turn the general chat channel on ingame or go read your forums, by all means speak for yourself but not the rest of us six million thanks. I never stop hearing complaints about the game or Blizzard in chat or on forums, there is far from 6 million content players. The last few months have seen numerous people stop playing the game bored at level 60 with non stop pve raiding. If u havent seen that then you must be on a realm of your own. A lot of the ones I have known leave have kept accounts as they want to see what BC is going to bring. In fact you can see more and more people milling around main cities doing nothing as they wait for BC. This could be a make or break for Blizzard.
Personally i thought the editorial summed up my feelings on what I have read but I guess i will buy the expnasion and see what's it like but have a feeling I wont last long afterwards.
My biggest gripe, which is unlike a lot of others, is the raising of the level cap. How can they let u play the game for 18 months and then pretty much say u have to start again? New content yes, new dunegoens with varying size raids yes, change the pvp system yes...but tell everyone at level 60 they have to level again is crap imo. Add to that 450k xp from 60-61, so i assume approaching 600k to go level 69-70 and i cant see many of my 6 level 60's making 70 before the game is over for me.
Anyone any suggestions on something better to play or should i go back to rl if this is all thats on offer?
Originally posted by Gorukha Originally posted by Ranak1 They're probably working on new features like that... but it takes a lot of time to develop things like that. I'm pretty sure it won't be too long before a new expansion is announced.
Considering how long it took for BC to come out I wouldn't get my hopes up to be frank. Savour this one and be thankful for it, lol. I doubt they won't be brining out any more expansions. Of course, every other Blizzard game has had exactly one expansion (except for WC1 as far as I know) but an MMO is something entirely different. It's a game that's meant to be changing all the time, and some of those changes just can't be brought to you in a patch (not to forget the extra money they earn by selling it of course.) I'm pretty sure they'll bring out another expansion or two before WoW stops being popular.
i've not read all the bitchin here but i still got a question they said they have now 25man dungeons so what? what i want to know are they shorter? i quit not couse there was low chance to get something nice i quit couse the instances at lvl 60 took way to much time i dont like to spent half off the day sitting in my room staring at the monitor
I've played the beta, and this review is right on-target - there is nothing particularly revolutionary in TBO. That is not necessarily a bad thing though, in my opinion, at least for a first expansion. The new races, starting areas and quests will give bored players something new to experience. There are new zones and quests for ALL levels to check out. Raising the level cap 10 more levels for all classes is no small undertaking, and is a lot to balance. Jewel crafting is a nice addition. Seems like a solid expansion well worth the bucks for those who still enjoy WoW
Don't think I will buying it. Sounds like just another raid fest. Blizz punishes players for having a life outside of the game. Requiring 20 and 40man raids is moronic. 10 should be tops. They fail to understand that some of the wow community actually have jobs so can't live online to get into raid guilds they really should give the more casual players a chance at some decent epics they have more than given the raiders enough to fight over.
I recently returned to this game after taking a 6 month leave of absence to try out some other titles on the market. After doing countless free trials and open betas etc, I still couldn't find something as interesting. I think a lot of people make the game into something less enjoyable by obsessing over #s. Nobody points a gun at you and says "before hitting max level, reaching that level should be your only concern" If you take the time to read the quest dialogs, they are often interesting, sometimes ammusing, and from time to time downright evil. The level caps on battlegrounds make PvP something you can do at any level, and even at 60 with no epics and only a few rares, I regularly enter places like AB and AV and leave with over 60 HK's, and I play a druid!(gasp!)
As for people who say ridiculous things like these game developers are "punishing you for having a life", again, nobody is forcing you to do anything. I play at most 10 hours a week, one day I raid, and the other I do BG's or smaller instances, and I enjoy myself. I met LOTS of people on the journey from 1-60, there's a 5 man instance every 5 levels or so once you hit 20, and even if your main goal is just to level as fast as possible, you're likely to get at least 1 piece of gear to help you do that faster. Yes, your level of reward is scaled to the ammount of effort you put in, but so what? that's life! Maybe I should get a PhD in 5 years doing only 1 hour of class a day, because I want to do other things as well. Maybe I should be able to get buff by only spending 30 minutes a week exercising? Maybe my job should pay me the same as someone who works 40 hours when I only want to work 12? Show me a game that doesn't reward players who are willing to spend more time... would you prefer that all gear could be purchased? of course not, because then the game would be rewarding the wealthiest player.
As for judging a game based on it's in-game chat and forums.... the soul of an MMO player is to complain, it's just the way it works. if a GM came in and gave someone 300 gold for nothing, they'd be on the forums that night saying they should have been given 400 and threating to cancel their account if Blizzard didn't fix this injustice.
Yes, there are some dissapointing ommissions in the burning crusade.... no new classes is definately one of them, and I haven't heard anything about there being new instances pre-60, but at Blizzcon this year Blizzard made it clear that once this is rolled out they have every intention of putting out a new expansion every year. Now I know the same people who said "more expansions!!" will now say "they just want more money", but again, it's the nature of an MMO gamer to complain. The Burning Crusade took awhile because time was spent devoted to adding more balance and flavor to the existing classes. Outland content was something very much wanted by many players with an interest in the Warcraft Lore, and ties up/updated almost everything that was left in limbo between WC3 and WoW.
So here's the part where people call me fanboy, decide that I'm under 17, accuse me of having no life, and feel smug and superior for finding any spelling errors, poor grammar, or questionable punctuation. I accept that, it's the nature of the beast.
I am looking forward to the expansion, it adds a whole new element to the lore of warcraft, and to anyone that has followed the series since its beginning this should be reason enough to get the expansion. And as for the gameplay, the honor sytem is going to be totally reworked, and user interface is getting a major improvement with the new Looking For Group Interface. As for adding new classes, there really isnt anything to add, sure blademasters could be added to the horde side, but that would leave the game severely unbalanced being that there is nothing to add for alliance that I can think of. Also, for anyone who has stuck strictly to horde, or strictly to alliance, new classes are being made available, so i see absolutely no problem with not adding "new" classes. The addition of paladins on horde, and shaman on alliance will radically change not only pvp, but how instances are approached as well. This should do wonders for balancing pvp. So for anyone who is upset that Blizzard isnt changing the game at all, stop QQing and go play an amazing game.
Originally posted by Abcdxyz Add to that 450k xp from 60-61, so i assume approaching 600k to go level 69-70 and i cant see many of my 6 level 60's making 70 before the game is over for me.
If these estimates are close to what the exp will really be im interested to see how many people get bored of grinding by yourself for hours and not getting levels like in the 1-60 grind. At the same time though i would assume the grind would not really be as hard as it seems because if your currently a level 60 in full epics you could grind a lot easier than you did previously in greens/blues.
i played a horde priest in the biest horde guild on our server and tbh i was hooked i played on average 25-40 hours a week raiding 6 days a week and i now realise what a big waste of my time it was.
here are a list of what of things i think make this game suck
equipment: nearly all end game characters end up with identical equipment the only thing that distiguishes them from a crowd is there name because even though there are hundreds of items out there only a few actually benefit them in the high end instances, even though burning crusade is bringing in jewel crafting i feel there should have been more options to tweak a piece of equipment other than enchanting, it would have enabled players to have there own unique advantages and disadvatages when facing differant bosses and this in turn would mean more players getting involved in a raid rather than making up the numbers.
crafting: what can i say blizzard screwed this up big time enchanting and herbalism are the only proffesions that can make a small amount of money all the rest just suck even the epic gear you can make after spending a lot of time or money making doesn't stand up to most blue items you can get from regular instances as soon as you enter the lower tier raids like molten core all that your hardwork and effort goes out the window when the epics start dropping.
classes: as a priest i had only 1 purpose spam the healing buttons all 5 of them and when needed i got to dispell with all the spells my character had and could have with a few changes to skill trees it seems a little unfair that all characters once they enter that raid instances are restricted to certain roles BECAUSE of the design of the instance rather than the preferances of the raid leader if the raid leader strayed too far from the the almost mandatory group of appropriatly skilled players the raid ended in a wipe and i think burning crusade is only going to increase this problem yes there are new races but with the addition of palladins to horde and shamans to alliance it means that not only do you have to fit them into the raids it also takes away the challeng each side faced having to overcome the problems encountered on some bosses because of not having that unique class the horde and alliance had.
the world: alliance=good side horde=evil side well thats what everyone thought but thats not quite reflected in the story lines you encounter while questing yes i know thrall united the horde and set out to find lands that the horde could settle and rebuild there shattered lives BUT surely not everyone that followed him felt this way same as i'm sure that not all the alliance would have been happy with letting these races go after so many years of brutal warfare and watching there loved ones die at the hands of the evil horde i would have liked to see not only guilds but factions the guilds could join ones that were dedicated to whatever purpose they set themselves be it hunting down alliance or horde continuing to fight the war even though both sides have an uneasy peace or those players dedicated to protecting the peace and not allowing there brothers the chance to return the world to chaos with another war even this would have given the game so much more depth than basic pvp or pve it would have made the world ours made us responsible for shaping the world and allowed for each server to develop in a unique way and though this may have meant employing a few more writers and game designers they do get enough of our money to be able to do this
i could go all day with things i think are bad about the game but thats my opinion i think the one thing that most people could agree on though is the depth of the game versus the time spent playing it.
in my old guild it took 3-6 weeks to learn most of the instance but then even after running an instance for 30 weeks with hardly any changes to the members of that raid many players still needed so much stuff that the prospect of another 10+weeks running that instance proved more than they could handle and many took time out or quit the game and the players that had most or all of there equipment didn't want to continue raiding a very boring instance and to date blizzard only add more of these instances i think this problem could have been easily fixed with the crafters being given the recipes for all the set items and various epics and the raids being used to aquire materials rather than the items, basicly what i'm saying is world of warcraft is a shallow game with no depth that requires a stupid amount of time to acheive even the most basic of things
If these estimates are close to what the exp will really be im interested to see how many people get bored of grinding by yourself for hours and not getting levels like in the 1-60 grind. At the same time though i would assume the grind would not really be as hard as it seems because if your currently a level 60 in full epics you could grind a lot easier than you did previously in greens/blues.
Think about it they run thousand times the same instance for some stupid imba equipment thats a grind of the finest kind i don't think they would even consider the way to 70 as a grind
then again im really wondering if the casual players who got no t2 nor t1 will get a as nearly good chance to get to lvl 70 as the prior mentioned epic equiped players/freaks
Originally posted by Xytras I recently returned to this game after taking a 6 month leave of absence to try out some other titles on the market. After doing countless free trials and open betas etc, I still couldn't find something as interesting. I think a lot of people make the game into something less enjoyable by obsessing over #s. Nobody points a gun at you and says "before hitting max level, reaching that level should be your only concern" If you take the time to read the quest dialogs, they are often interesting, sometimes ammusing, and from time to time downright evil. The level caps on battlegrounds make PvP something you can do at any level, and even at 60 with no epics and only a few rares, I regularly enter places like AB and AV and leave with over 60 HK's, and I play a druid!(gasp!) As for people who say ridiculous things like these game developers are "punishing you for having a life", again, nobody is forcing you to do anything. I play at most 10 hours a week, one day I raid, and the other I do BG's or smaller instances, and I enjoy myself. I met LOTS of people on the journey from 1-60, there's a 5 man instance every 5 levels or so once you hit 20, and even if your main goal is just to level as fast as possible, you're likely to get at least 1 piece of gear to help you do that faster. Yes, your level of reward is scaled to the ammount of effort you put in, but so what? that's life! Maybe I should get a PhD in 5 years doing only 1 hour of class a day, because I want to do other things as well. Maybe I should be able to get buff by only spending 30 minutes a week exercising? Maybe my job should pay me the same as someone who works 40 hours when I only want to work 12? Show me a game that doesn't reward players who are willing to spend more time... would you prefer that all gear could be purchased? of course not, because then the game would be rewarding the wealthiest player. As for judging a game based on it's in-game chat and forums.... the soul of an MMO player is to complain, it's just the way it works. if a GM came in and gave someone 300 gold for nothing, they'd be on the forums that night saying they should have been given 400 and threating to cancel their account if Blizzard didn't fix this injustice. Yes, there are some dissapointing ommissions in the burning crusade.... no new classes is definately one of them, and I haven't heard anything about there being new instances pre-60, but at Blizzcon this year Blizzard made it clear that once this is rolled out they have every intention of putting out a new expansion every year. Now I know the same people who said "more expansions!!" will now say "they just want more money", but again, it's the nature of an MMO gamer to complain. The Burning Crusade took awhile because time was spent devoted to adding more balance and flavor to the existing classes. Outland content was something very much wanted by many players with an interest in the Warcraft Lore, and ties up/updated almost everything that was left in limbo between WC3 and WoW. So here's the part where people call me fanboy, decide that I'm under 17, accuse me of having no life, and feel smug and superior for finding any spelling errors, poor grammar, or questionable punctuation. I accept that, it's the nature of the beast.
Exactly my opinion I just play the game to have fun and enjoy myself, not to get epics and get levels fast etc.
All I can say is Mr. Garrett Fuller is a complete idiot one look at many gaming sites that are covering the beta (no NDA) can show every single point Mr. Fuller brings up is rebukked. Hell Ibet he hasnt played the game past level 10 and if he has then he would known the idea of Epic or Prestige classes are actually called Hero Classes.
"There are many areas that I am looking to explore. Although it will only mean more farming, more questing, and more instancing".
And what is so bad about this, and how is this different from any other MMO model? ohh yea I guess camping a spawn for hours on end is more to your liken.
"Yes there is some PvP and some interesting little side things to WoW that perk up some interest."
This new PvP is vastly better then any other game on the market, they have done away with the laddered Grind system, and not only is PvP action going away from Instance BG's they are making more and exciting world pvp encounters.
"As much as people thought Dark Age of Camelot was ruined by Trials of Atlantis, you must admit it added great changes for characters in the game".
Thats becasue DAoC was ruined by ToA, you can argue to your blue in the face but the facts speak louder then words, 50% of Mythics Population left shortly after ToA, it was single most uninspiring thing they would of done. Mythic tried to make DAoC into EQ, instead of building on what they were good at which was RvR. This fact alone should tell you jsut how promising WoW and the Burning Crusade is going to become, since as you said in your own words: "Blizzard always does put out a good product that runs very smoothly".
"Until something new comes along, we have only have the same Warcraft we knew in 2004, just more of it".
And 6.5 million says other wise, Mr. Fuller. Theres a reason why in almost anything you do in life and in games one only needs to look at the age old motto K.I.S.S. "Keep it simple stupid" and why it allowed Blizzard to captivate and motivate millions of people to play MMO's. Unlike your precious DAoC.
Playing: GW2 Waiting on: TESO Next Flop: Planetside 2 Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
For people who have made up their mind to hate WoW, there isn't any amount of debating that is going to change your mind.
I have the TBC:CE pre-ordered. Yeah, I wish there was more to the game and some things that would be changed, but aside from EQ2 and GW (which I own), there isn't much else out there that appeals to me.
So while I could sit here and complain about it, argue w/ people about the game, figure I'll just go load up WoW or something else and enjoy it.
sadly the same grind, people will be upset because all the raids they did will make their current uber equipment null and void. The new characters are purely to fix the fubar of imbalances currently in the game. The relative relations to common overly done questing shall return. People will grind out the next 10 in 2 months and then ask where is the rest? Then the next anticipation for a promised revision will come and go. Been there done that, hopefully companies out there will start being innovative or at least the player bases demand more from their respective MMO's.
"The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"
Comments
Do you have idea what kind of money WoW makes yearly? It's basically all pure profit. They recouped development costs in 1-2 months..
The expansion should of had things like naval combat , real time city building and destruction... not just the same BS pve junk that WoW basically is.
There are a couple items, however, that I believe are overlooked in the article.
First, this is the first expansion of WoW and it comes 2 years after release. Most recent MMOGs have offered their first expansion in less time. This is both good and bad. It means that the original content and that which has been added as free updates has been enough to sustain the rather large player base that is currently in the game. It also means that you have a much higher concentration of people at end game and the expectations of what is added will be higher.
This leads to my second point which was the comparison of The Burning Crusade to DAOC's Trials of Atlantis. Trials of Atlantis was not DAOC's first expansion. DAOC's first expansion (Shrouded Isles) did offer new classes, but aside from that, it was basically just more of the same DAOC that you already had. So comparing Burning Crusade to Trials of Atlantis is in my opinion not an apples to apples comparison.
Now, an interesting area of debate that I seldom see explored is one addressing the topic of what the role of an expansion should be. Do we really want expansions that radically shift the game? Isn't that a sign that the release game wasn't done well enough? When, as a gamer, do you acknowledge that you have simply outgrown a title versus expecting that a development team is going to be able to rekindle the same feeling of 'new' with an expansion pack? Let's face it, no expansion pack will ever hold our interest or provide the same types of challenges as those first couple months of playing a brand new title.
So again, it is an editorial and everyone is entitled to their opinion. I just wonder if more often than not we as gamers need to step back and analyze if our opinions aren't being driven by our expectations which are founded in a sometimes unrealistic zeal.
Interesting Review..
I have an opinion, so don't flame me.. Just thoughts/wishes that the expansion could of had.
1.) Mages would get a critter/creature something to command. I don't mean they should have (3) like EQ has, but something to roll along side of the Squishy.
If it would take cutting a tad into our spell tree to balance this.. fine! At least that way it would be different AND.. Interesting.
2.) Have a Enchanter Class with a 'Sword/Shield' Animation (or something like that)
3.) Let Hunters be able to once again.. tame Unique creatures! Damn.. I will always remember that "Z-Snake" they were able to tame eons ago!
All we get to tame are the hum/drum critters.. how about something new Blizzard?!
Welp.. As least I can wish, can't I? Hehe
As far as the rest goes..
I am happy with what is coming out. I still love/hate this game & probably will until the time comes I want to quit.
"Huntress"
It's better be hated for who you are, than loved for who you aren't.
'As much as people thought Dark Age of Camelot was ruined by Trials of Atlantis, you must admit it added great changes for characters in the game'
This says it all for me. You don't bring out an expansion to 'ruin' a game. You bring it out to earn revenue. WoW does not need more people, it needs to retain who they have. Therefore they are not aiming for nearly all of the posters on this forum but rather those who are still playing. So, rule number 1 is; never alter what you have unless you can with certainty determine that this will 'improve' your product. You can't do that with over 6 million players (look at the diverse views just on this forum). So you go for option 2 which is; do the same again with some minor enhancements that are enough to warrant existing players paying out more cash. There you go.
On a different note. It seems wierd to me this emphasis on high level characters. So what if there is nothing much to do when you've got to the top? It seems to me that playing a game is about a fun process, not a fun end point. I think this is what many reviewers miss. If all the fun comes at the end of character development then only a dedicated few will get there (look at how Asian MMOs don't do very well here). WoW was able to make this process relatively fun for lots of people, just means the end part is less so.
Finally, please let's judge games by the standards that they set themselves. Only then can we get meaningful reviews. WoW was designed from the ground up to be accessible, if this means 'simple' for some people then that is what they did. To then critizise it on the grounds that it is 'simple' kind of misses the point. Like saying that AC/DC are too rock when you wanted some country and western.
Considering how long it took for BC to come out I wouldn't get my hopes
up to be frank. Savour this one and be thankful for it, lol.
o
ya, theyll anounce it soon enough, but seriously, they are blizzard
lol. wait a few years and it might come out, just b glad its not a
console game and will b delayed till next generation lol.
Now many of you have suggested that blizzard isn't listening to their player base and that is simply not true. I don't say this as a fan boy, something I"m sure all be called for daring to make such a statement, I say this from looking at the design of outland. People are complaining about no world PVP. Well now every zone has a pvp objective. Sure it's not an epic battlefield, but it's there and there are more than one quest that involves players getting thrown into the fray. So hopefuly people will gain something more out of the experance, and pve people might dare risk flipping their flag on for a little exp. Is this system as interesting as DAOC's tower and relic system? No. Is it a step in the right dirrection? I believe so.
In addition to the world pvp objectives blizzard has also removed their ladder pvp system, although ranks are still retained to provide people with a status symbol, in favor of using a honor as currencey system. This system allows players to save up honor earned and use it, when they would like, to purchase items at the pvp shop. which is good for both casual and hardcore players alike.
Players complain that wow is a solo grind, well guys TBC's mobs are much tougher than the mobs we knew from Azeroth. Now I'm not saying that they're get a full party ready hard, but they are hard enough that grouping with another player is a good idea, but not a necessary one. Although on a personal note, had they changed the game so that it was no longer soloable, I don't think I would be playing it anymore and neither would a vast majory of the seven million people who currently play the game. As such I think they made a wise desicion in ignoring your claims.
As to the people who don't enjoy end game raiding, we'll have to wait and see. I simply don't have enough information at this current time to be able to tell you if that changed or not. (Although I serriously doubt it)
As I'm starting to question why I'm writing this instead of playing the game I'm going to skip the info and go straight to the point. Fans of the warcraft game will love it. It takes everything you like about wow and then gives alot more. People who left the game because they ran out of stuff to do. People whoenjoyed playing WOW for leveling and small groups should also pick it up as TBC's lands are vast, think three strangle thorn vales per zone, beautiful, save hellfire penisula (SP) which looks kinda like the blasted lands if painted by salvadore dolly, and interesting. Sure it might not be the life obession you desire, but it's a great deal of fun and really for 40 bucks it's cheaper and has more depth than most games that come out these days. As for those who left wow because they geniunely didn't like it, or because you like another game more, may I suggest staying with your old title and not bothering with TBc. It's not so diffrent that it's likely to change your mind anytime soon.
One last thing I will mention before I log to not check this forum for another month. People remember and opinion is an opinion, and unless you serroulsy think you have some light to shed on a topic, please refrain from posting every thought that runs through your head. Sure you don't like WOW, or you did but you don't anymore because you got sick of raiding, then thats fine, but why do you think you to to write that down and post it for all to see. Chances are you are not important enough for people who disagree with you to care, and the only thing you do is get other yes men to appear and spout their uninteresting opinions as well. Had this been an artical been called, "why you left wow" I coudl see why you'd right down your opinions, but as it's not please try and keep the thread looking forward at BC instead of backwords at why you left warcraft.
Thank you
Mr. Vice
Congratulations - u made me register an account here, was just a casual browser....but had to reply.
I suggest you turn the general chat channel on ingame or go read your forums, by all means speak for yourself but not the rest of us six million thanks. I never stop hearing complaints about the game or Blizzard in chat or on forums, there is far from 6 million content players. The last few months have seen numerous people stop playing the game bored at level 60 with non stop pve raiding. If u havent seen that then you must be on a realm of your own. A lot of the ones I have known leave have kept accounts as they want to see what BC is going to bring. In fact you can see more and more people milling around main cities doing nothing as they wait for BC. This could be a make or break for Blizzard.
Personally i thought the editorial summed up my feelings on what I have read but I guess i will buy the expnasion and see what's it like but have a feeling I wont last long afterwards.
My biggest gripe, which is unlike a lot of others, is the raising of the level cap. How can they let u play the game for 18 months and then pretty much say u have to start again? New content yes, new dunegoens with varying size raids yes, change the pvp system yes...but tell everyone at level 60 they have to level again is crap imo. Add to that 450k xp from 60-61, so i assume approaching 600k to go level 69-70 and i cant see many of my 6 level 60's making 70 before the game is over for me.
Anyone any suggestions on something better to play or should i go back to rl if this is all thats on offer?
I doubt they won't be brining out any more expansions. Of course, every other Blizzard game has had exactly one expansion (except for WC1 as far as I know) but an MMO is something entirely different. It's a game that's meant to be changing all the time, and some of those changes just can't be brought to you in a patch (not to forget the extra money they earn by selling it of course.) I'm pretty sure they'll bring out another expansion or two before WoW stops being popular.
they said they have now 25man dungeons
so what?
what i want to know are they shorter?
i quit not couse there was low chance to get something nice
i quit couse the instances at lvl 60 took way to much time
i dont like to spent half off the day sitting in my room staring at the monitor
Pi*1337/100 = 42
I've played the beta, and this review is right on-target - there is nothing particularly revolutionary in TBO. That is not necessarily a bad thing though, in my opinion, at least for a first expansion. The new races, starting areas and quests will give bored players something new to experience. There are new zones and quests for ALL levels to check out. Raising the level cap 10 more levels for all classes is no small undertaking, and is a lot to balance. Jewel crafting is a nice addition. Seems like a solid expansion well worth the bucks for those who still enjoy WoW
It's better be hated for who you are, than loved for who you aren't.
I recently returned to this game after taking a 6 month leave of absence to try out some other titles on the market. After doing countless free trials and open betas etc, I still couldn't find something as interesting. I think a lot of people make the game into something less enjoyable by obsessing over #s. Nobody points a gun at you and says "before hitting max level, reaching that level should be your only concern" If you take the time to read the quest dialogs, they are often interesting, sometimes ammusing, and from time to time downright evil. The level caps on battlegrounds make PvP something you can do at any level, and even at 60 with no epics and only a few rares, I regularly enter places like AB and AV and leave with over 60 HK's, and I play a druid!(gasp!)
As for people who say ridiculous things like these game developers are "punishing you for having a life", again, nobody is forcing you to do anything. I play at most 10 hours a week, one day I raid, and the other I do BG's or smaller instances, and I enjoy myself. I met LOTS of people on the journey from 1-60, there's a 5 man instance every 5 levels or so once you hit 20, and even if your main goal is just to level as fast as possible, you're likely to get at least 1 piece of gear to help you do that faster. Yes, your level of reward is scaled to the ammount of effort you put in, but so what? that's life! Maybe I should get a PhD in 5 years doing only 1 hour of class a day, because I want to do other things as well. Maybe I should be able to get buff by only spending 30 minutes a week exercising? Maybe my job should pay me the same as someone who works 40 hours when I only want to work 12? Show me a game that doesn't reward players who are willing to spend more time... would you prefer that all gear could be purchased? of course not, because then the game would be rewarding the wealthiest player.
As for judging a game based on it's in-game chat and forums.... the soul of an MMO player is to complain, it's just the way it works. if a GM came in and gave someone 300 gold for nothing, they'd be on the forums that night saying they should have been given 400 and threating to cancel their account if Blizzard didn't fix this injustice.
Yes, there are some dissapointing ommissions in the burning crusade.... no new classes is definately one of them, and I haven't heard anything about there being new instances pre-60, but at Blizzcon this year Blizzard made it clear that once this is rolled out they have every intention of putting out a new expansion every year. Now I know the same people who said "more expansions!!" will now say "they just want more money", but again, it's the nature of an MMO gamer to complain. The Burning Crusade took awhile because time was spent devoted to adding more balance and flavor to the existing classes. Outland content was something very much wanted by many players with an interest in the Warcraft Lore, and ties up/updated almost everything that was left in limbo between WC3 and WoW.
So here's the part where people call me fanboy, decide that I'm under 17, accuse me of having no life, and feel smug and superior for finding any spelling errors, poor grammar, or questionable punctuation. I accept that, it's the nature of the beast.
If these estimates are close to what the exp will really be im interested to see how many people get bored of grinding by yourself for hours and not getting levels like in the 1-60 grind. At the same time though i would assume the grind would not really be as hard as it seems because if your currently a level 60 in full epics you could grind a lot easier than you did previously in greens/blues.
i played a horde priest in the biest horde guild on our server and tbh i was hooked i played on average 25-40 hours a week raiding 6 days a week and i now realise what a big waste of my time it was.
here are a list of what of things i think make this game suck
equipment: nearly all end game characters end up with identical equipment the only thing that distiguishes them from a crowd is there name because even though there are hundreds of items out there only a few actually benefit them in the high end instances, even though burning crusade is bringing in jewel crafting i feel there should have been more options to tweak a piece of equipment other than enchanting, it would have enabled players to have there own unique advantages and disadvatages when facing differant bosses and this in turn would mean more players getting involved in a raid rather than making up the numbers.
crafting: what can i say blizzard screwed this up big time enchanting and herbalism are the only proffesions that can make a small amount of money all the rest just suck even the epic gear you can make after spending a lot of time or money making doesn't stand up to most blue items you can get from regular instances as soon as you enter the lower tier raids like molten core all that your hardwork and effort goes out the window when the epics start dropping.
classes: as a priest i had only 1 purpose spam the healing buttons all 5 of them and when needed i got to dispell with all the spells my character had and could have with a few changes to skill trees it seems a little unfair that all characters once they enter that raid instances are restricted to certain roles BECAUSE of the design of the instance rather than the preferances of the raid leader if the raid leader strayed too far from the the almost mandatory group of appropriatly skilled players the raid ended in a wipe and i think burning crusade is only going to increase this problem yes there are new races but with the addition of palladins to horde and shamans to alliance it means that not only do you have to fit them into the raids it also takes away the challeng each side faced having to overcome the problems encountered on some bosses because of not having that unique class the horde and alliance had.
the world: alliance=good side horde=evil side well thats what everyone thought but thats not quite reflected in the story lines you encounter while questing yes i know thrall united the horde and set out to find lands that the horde could settle and rebuild there shattered lives BUT surely not everyone that followed him felt this way same as i'm sure that not all the alliance would have been happy with letting these races go after so many years of brutal warfare and watching there loved ones die at the hands of the evil horde i would have liked to see not only guilds but factions the guilds could join ones that were dedicated to whatever purpose they set themselves be it hunting down alliance or horde continuing to fight the war even though both sides have an uneasy peace or those players dedicated to protecting the peace and not allowing there brothers the chance to return the world to chaos with another war even this would have given the game so much more depth than basic pvp or pve it would have made the world ours made us responsible for shaping the world and allowed for each server to develop in a unique way and though this may have meant employing a few more writers and game designers they do get enough of our money to be able to do this
i could go all day with things i think are bad about the game but thats my opinion i think the one thing that most people could agree on though is the depth of the game versus the time spent playing it.
in my old guild it took 3-6 weeks to learn most of the instance but then even after running an instance for 30 weeks with hardly any changes to the members of that raid many players still needed so much stuff that the prospect of another 10+weeks running that instance proved more than they could handle and many took time out or quit the game and the players that had most or all of there equipment didn't want to continue raiding a very boring instance and to date blizzard only add more of these instances i think this problem could have been easily fixed with the crafters being given the recipes for all the set items and various epics and the raids being used to aquire materials rather than the items, basicly what i'm saying is world of warcraft is a shallow game with no depth that requires a stupid amount of time to acheive even the most basic of things
Nice article. More of the same seems kind of boring to me although I will most certainly buy the expansion.
I have had some fun in WOW and made some good friends, but I can't wait till some new mmo comes out so I can jump ship.
God's and Heroes, Vanguard, Spellborn...between the 3 of them one has to be decent.
they run thousand times the same instance for some stupid imba equipment
thats a grind of the finest kind
i don't think they would even consider the way to 70 as a grind
then again im really wondering if the casual players who got no t2 nor t1
will get a as nearly good chance to get to lvl 70 as the prior mentioned epic equiped players/freaks
Pi*1337/100 = 42
All I can say is Mr. Garrett Fuller is a complete idiot one look at many gaming sites that are covering the beta (no NDA) can show every single point Mr. Fuller brings up is rebukked. Hell Ibet he hasnt played the game past level 10 and if he has then he would known the idea of Epic or Prestige classes are actually called Hero Classes.
"There are many areas that I am looking to explore. Although it will only mean more farming, more questing, and more instancing".
And what is so bad about this, and how is this different from any other MMO model? ohh yea I guess camping a spawn for hours on end is more to your liken.
"Yes there is some PvP and some interesting little side things to WoW that perk up some interest."
This new PvP is vastly better then any other game on the market, they have done away with the laddered Grind system, and not only is PvP action going away from Instance BG's they are making more and exciting world pvp encounters.
"As much as people thought Dark Age of Camelot was ruined by Trials of Atlantis, you must admit it added great changes for characters in the game".
Thats becasue DAoC was ruined by ToA, you can argue to your blue in the face but the facts speak louder then words, 50% of Mythics Population left shortly after ToA, it was single most uninspiring thing they would of done. Mythic tried to make DAoC into EQ, instead of building on what they were good at which was RvR. This fact alone should tell you jsut how promising WoW and the Burning Crusade is going to become, since as you said in your own words: "Blizzard always does put out a good product that runs very smoothly".
"Until something new comes along, we have only have the same Warcraft we knew in 2004, just more of it".
And 6.5 million says other wise, Mr. Fuller. Theres a reason why in almost anything you do in life and in games one only needs to look at the age old motto K.I.S.S. "Keep it simple stupid" and why it allowed Blizzard to captivate and motivate millions of people to play MMO's. Unlike your precious DAoC.
Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online
Playing: GW2
Waiting on: TESO
Next Flop: Planetside 2
Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
such a bad review . . .
such review is the reason i almost dont come here anymore . . .
reviewer should die . . .
For people who have made up their mind to hate WoW, there isn't any amount of debating that is going to change your mind.
I have the TBC:CE pre-ordered. Yeah, I wish there was more to the game and some things that would be changed, but aside from EQ2 and GW (which I own), there isn't much else out there that appeals to me.
So while I could sit here and complain about it, argue w/ people about the game, figure I'll just go load up WoW or something else and enjoy it.
sadly the same grind, people will be upset because all the raids they did will make their current uber equipment null and void. The new characters are purely to fix the fubar of imbalances currently in the game. The relative relations to common overly done questing shall return. People will grind out the next 10 in 2 months and then ask where is the rest? Then the next anticipation for a promised revision will come and go. Been there done that, hopefully companies out there will start being innovative or at least the player bases demand more from their respective MMO's.
"The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"