Originally posted by Jade6 Originally posted by Jackcolt Well at least your almost alone in that opinion
If I was, the show would never have been canceled in the first place, now would it? The sad fact is that the quality of a show isn't all that relevant wheather it stays or gets canned. There are enough abysmal shows (I.e. Andromeda) running for many season to proove that fact. Of course this is all subjective (I heard there are even people who like Andromeda can you believe that?!). Anyway, Firefly certainly had some early episodes with uninspired writing, but the Ideas behind the show were great (again IMO).
Originally posted by Nalaeph The sad fact is that the quality of a show isn't all that relevant wheather it stays or gets canned.
Oh well, this Whedon guy's other handywork kinda proves the point. I guess Firefly is Ok if you can think of it as "Buffy in space" or a western (which mostly just appeal to you Americans btw), but the moment you try to think of it as scifi, your brain explodes. Scifi is supposed to be "epic" (like, storylines that decide the fate of millions, planet killer weapons, etc etc), and it's supposed to have a world that's completely different from ours. I watched maybe 2-3 episodes and I never saw a trace of any of that in Firefly. Maybe it's in there somewhere, and in that case I might change my opinion; but all I saw was a lame western with uninteresting storylines and characters who behave like they are living in 1800th century America. Then again, except for the western part, that description applies to almost every TV show anyway.
I mean, if I really wanted to watch completely ordinary people trying to get through day to day life, I would just open the window; then I could watch it for free 24/7 with the highest possible screen quality and stereo sound. But nah...
Originally posted by Jade6 Originally posted by Nalaeph The sad fact is that the quality of a show isn't all that relevant wheather it stays or gets canned.
Oh well, this Whedon guy's other handywork kinda proves the point. I guess Firefly is Ok if you can think of it as "Buffy in space" or a western (which mostly just appeal to you Americans btw), but the moment you try to think of it as scifi, your brain explodes. Scifi is supposed to be "epic" (like, storylines that decide the fate of millions, planet killer weapons, etc etc), and it's supposed to have a world that's completely different from ours. I watched maybe 2-3 episodes and I never saw a trace of any of that in Firefly. Maybe it's in there somewhere, and in that case I might change my opinion; but all I saw was a lame western with uninteresting storylines and characters who behave like they are living in 1800th century America. Then again, except for the western part, that description applies to almost every TV show anyway.
I mean, if I really wanted to watch completely ordinary people trying to get through day to day life, I would just open the window; then I could watch it for free 24/7 with the highest possible screen quality and stereo sound. But nah...
Firefly and Buffy are two very different show in every single aspect that there are to show-making. I don't see why SCI-FI should be so epic? It's because you're used to it being epic, with super mega corps and extreme technology. Firefly is a sci-fi show in terms of showing us how we might end up in 500 years. The society we have in Firefly aren't farfetched, since it's idea evolved from the very society we have today.
Firefly is interesting because it shows the life and developement of the crew in their everyday lifes. We can relate to them.
Originally posted by Jade6 or a western (which mostly just appeal to you Americans btw),
Maybe you didn't see his gamer tag, but Jackcolt is Danish
Fact is the any show that only ran 1 season will not have the depth of a show that ran 7 just due to the number of episodes. But anyone that has watched Firefly knows that a lot things had to be cut short and simplfied becuase they knew FOX had canned them.
Originally posted by Jackcolt Firefly and Buffy are two very different show in every single aspect that there are to show-making.
The characters are just as ordinary and the plotlines are just as meaningless. You could have every one of those guys killed off and nothing in the universe they live in would change - which is to say that following their lives is kinda pointless because their fate doesn't make any difference anyway.
It's because you're used to it being epic,
No - it's because if it's not epic, it's just as normal and boring as everyday life today, and therefore not "scifi" (as in "futuristic") because there's really nothing in it that didn't work the same way today. They use space ships, we use trucks; what's the big deal? It's used for the exact same lame purpose anyway. They used to have this cartoon called "Flintstones", did you ever see that one? It was supposed to tell about life in pre-historic times, but everything in it worked like middle class suburban America. I get the same feeling when I watch Firefly; it's not future, it's the past with a sugar topping.
Firefly is interesting because it shows the life and developement of the crew in their everyday lifes. We can relate to them.
What if I don't want to relate to the idea that it's all just "same old, same old", even 500 years from now? If nothing has changed in 500 years, then there's no point in telling a story about life 500 years from now because you could just swap the curtain at the back (you know, where space and planets are painted on) and you could run the same show with no changes in a modern day setting. And I'm generally not interested in watching from TV what I could mind as well live in for real.
Originally posted by Jackcolt Firefly and Buffy are two very different show in every single aspect that there are to show-making.
The characters are just as ordinary and the plotlines are just as meaningless. You could have every one of those guys killed off and nothing in the universe they live in would change - which is to say that following their lives is kinda pointless because their fate doesn't make any difference anyway.
You've seen 3 episodes. Their lives affect themselves. Not the whole universe, which imho is getting old. Also I would call Buffy a sorta hero protecting the town. Mal ain't. The character developement and profiles are also very different. What you're doing is, actually putting it down to 2 kinds of characters: Heroes and ordinary people.
It's because you're used to it being epic,
No - it's because if it's not epic, it's just as normal and boring as everyday life today, and therefore not "scifi" (as in "futuristic") because there's really nothing in it that didn't work the same way today. They used to have this cartoon called "Flintstones", did you ever see that one? It was supposed to tell about life in pre-historic times, but everything in it worked like middle class suburban America. I get the exact same feeling when I watch Firefly; it's not future, it's the past with a sugar topping.
You don't seem to get the whole point of Firefly. The point of Firefly is to show us in a future. Problems are the same, but the lives are somewhat different. Some choose to make a life of their, other choose to live in a gaint city with an ordinary job. They show is interesting because Malcom doesn't have an ordinary job.
Firefly is interesting because it shows the life and developement of the crew in their everyday lifes. We can relate to them.
What if I don't want to relate to the idea that it's all just "same old, same old", even 500 years from now? If nothing has changed in 500 years, then there's no point in telling a story about life 500 years from now because you could just swap the curtain at the back (you know, where space and planets are painted on) and you could run the same show with no changes in a modern day setting.
Then don't watch Firefly, sinch you get the wrong impression of it. But saying objectively that the show is bad, is just plain stupid.
Also I would call Buffy a sorta hero protecting the town. Mal ain't.
I'm not really interested in heroes, especially ones as paper thin as Buffy. At the very least you would expect the habit of killing other sentient beings in cold blood to affect her personality somehow, then it might be remotely interesting; seeing her struggling with guilt and contemplating suicide (just like so many soldiers who return from real war) would certainly move that show to another level.
What I am very much interested in, however, are stories which make some real difference.
The point of Firefly is to show us in a future.
That's exactly why I think the show just plain sucks, because that's precisely where it fails most. There's no way we could ever colonise space with cowboy mentality, and there's no way the alien environments of other planets wouldn't change our society as well. All the planets I saw in Firefly are just Earth version number XYZ; what happened to green atmospheres (pretty standard even in our own solar system btw, methane does that), effects of 10 times more gravity, temperature ranges of -100 to +300... how come they can breathe everywhere? The adjustments necessary for settling into environments as hazardous as living in south pole would require major changes, even as personal concerns stay the same.
Originally posted by Jade6 Originally posted by Jackcolt Also I would call Buffy a sorta hero protecting the town. Mal ain't.I'm not really interested in heroes - especially ones as paper thin as Buffy. At the very least you would expect the habit of killing other sentient beings in cold blood to affect her personality somehow, then it might be remotely interesting; seeing her struggling with guilt and contemplating suicide (just like so many soldiers who return from real war) would certainly move that show to another level.What I am very much interested in, however, are stories which make some real difference.The point of Firefly is to show us in a future.That's exactly why I think the show just plain sucks, because that's precisely where it fails most. There's no way we could ever colonise space with cowboy mentality, and there's no way the alien environments of other planets wouldn't change our society as well. All the planets I saw in Firefly are just Earth version number XYZ, what happened to green atmospheres (pretty standard even in our own solar system btw, methane does that), effects of 10 times more (or less) gravity than we have here; how come they can breathe everywhere? The adjustment necessary for settling into environments that are as hazardous as living in south pole would require major adjustments even while personal concerns remain the same.Then don't watch Firefly, For your information, I don't.It shows. The last large section of you post is completely invalid. You show you know nothing about Firefly universe. They don't colonize space with cowboy mentality. That's the browncoats that have that after being defeated in a civil war. They mostly live roam as far as way from the core planets as possible where the feds roam. Without law and order, you are pretty much forced to live an outlaw life. Hence the cowbows. The reason they can live on other other worlds are because they've terraformed them. Then they place settlers with tools and horses to inhabit the world and make it thrive. Hence the cowboys.Technology doesn't reach around to everyone. We see that today. Just think about the life many people live in Africa. Joss Whedon kept that aspect in Firefly, where the outer planets wouldn't be as far technological advanced as the core planets. Hence the cowboys.
They don't colonize space with cowboy mentality. That's the browncoats that have that after being defeated in a civil war.
Fine, but if these guys lost the war, how come they still get to control entire planets with breathable atmospheres, natural resources, etc? If they terraform a few planets, then unless they can do it with equal ease as other people mow their lawn, it seems to me that the chances are these "core planets" who won the war would send absolutely everything they've got to take over right away - and if they could really terraform planets that easily, they wouldn't need to live like cowboys anyway, they could suck the planet dry of raw materials in a matter of hours and move on. So it still seems unrealistic.
Just think about the life many people live in Africa.
Ok, but a TV series placed in rural Africa isn't exactly "scifi" even if this rural Africa is on another planet.
Originally posted by Jade6 Originally posted by Jackcolt They don't colonize space with cowboy mentality. That's the browncoats that have that after being defeated in a civil war.Fine, but if these guys lost the war, how come they still get to control entire planets with breathable atmospheres, natural resources, etc? If they terraform a few planets, then unless they can do it with equal ease as other people mow their lawn, it seems to me that the chances are these "core planets" who won the war would send absolutely everything they've got to take over right away - and if they could really terraform planets that easily, they wouldn't need to live like cowboys anyway, they could suck the planet dry of raw materials in a matter of hours and move on. So it still seems unrealistic.They don't own the planets. Most of them stay around there, since it away from the alliance supporters, but some people left the browncoats and became normal civilians. Many of the terraformed planets, were terraformed before the civil war.So please, before bashing directly about poor plot and a non-existant world, know what you are talking about. Just think about the life many people live in Africa.Ok, but a TV series placed in rural Africa isn't exactly "scifi" even if this rural Africa is on another planet.Yeah, but it isn't a rural Africa. It's a sort of future rural Africa if you want it that way.
Originally posted by Jade6 Originally posted by Jackcolt They don't colonize space with cowboy mentality. That's the browncoats that have that after being defeated in a civil war.Fine, but if these guys lost the war, how come they still get to control entire planets with breathable atmospheres, natural resources, etc? If they terraform a few planets, then unless they can do it with equal ease as other people mow their lawn, it seems to me that the chances are these "core planets" who won the war would send absolutely everything they've got to take over right away - and if they could really terraform planets that easily, they wouldn't need to live like cowboys anyway, they could suck the planet dry of raw materials in a matter of hours and move on. So it still seems unrealistic.Just think about the life many people live in Africa.Ok, but a TV series placed in rural Africa isn't exactly "scifi" even if this rural Africa is on another planet.
They don't control the planets, they are the cheap labour that has been placed there to eke out a living harvesting resources for the big powers. They are pioneers essentially, prospectors. Why would the core planets care what goes on in the outer planets, as long as they are profitting from it. Terraforming a planet would be cheap and easy to do compared to stripping a planet of resources, besides, mining a planet of minerals is not the only resources they could refer to. It could be crops of food and such, so mining a planet dry might not be the purpose of terraforming.
I don't know where you get the concept that all sci-fi must be epic. How many times a year can one group of people possibly save the world? And if they are generic people with no background or that you can't relate to why would you even care.
In MY opinion Firefly is one of the most overrated shows and this is coming from someone who loves almost every scifi show there is. Bring back Farscape or Babylon 5 not Firefly, is what I think.
Originally posted by Jade6 Originally posted by Jackcolt Well at least your almost alone in that opinion
If I was, the show would never have been canceled in the first place, now would it? With a theory like that then Family Guy is a crap show too. Considering it got canned after the first season on Fox as well.
--------------------------------------------- I live to fight, and fight to live.
It got canceled because of a myriad of problems created mainly by Fox. Even then, it was popular enough to base a movie on it. I loved this show but it had very little to do with the universe or plot. I loved the characters and they are the reason I watched the show. I'm not giving Firefly any extra attention until I see some features. But when I heard the news...I did say "cool".
Originally posted by Gameloading It seems that just about any franchise is getting its own mmorpg.. Matrix, Star Was, Warcraft, Star Trek, stargate, Final fantasy, Now firefly.
Hey,
as long as it doesn't involves Elves, mages, and gnomes, and duel wield +1 short swords it has my vote ten fold!!
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
Comments
The sad fact is that the quality of a show isn't all that relevant wheather it stays or gets canned. There are enough abysmal shows (I.e. Andromeda) running for many season to proove that fact. Of course this is all subjective (I heard there are even people who like Andromeda can you believe that?!). Anyway, Firefly certainly had some early episodes with uninspired writing, but the Ideas behind the show were great (again IMO).
Oh well, this Whedon guy's other handywork kinda proves the point. I guess Firefly is Ok if you can think of it as "Buffy in space" or a western (which mostly just appeal to you Americans btw), but the moment you try to think of it as scifi, your brain explodes. Scifi is supposed to be "epic" (like, storylines that decide the fate of millions, planet killer weapons, etc etc), and it's supposed to have a world that's completely different from ours. I watched maybe 2-3 episodes and I never saw a trace of any of that in Firefly. Maybe it's in there somewhere, and in that case I might change my opinion; but all I saw was a lame western with uninteresting storylines and characters who behave like they are living in 1800th century America. Then again, except for the western part, that description applies to almost every TV show anyway.
I mean, if I really wanted to watch completely ordinary people trying to get through day to day life, I would just open the window; then I could watch it for free 24/7 with the highest possible screen quality and stereo sound. But nah...
Oh well, this Whedon guy's other handywork kinda proves the point. I guess Firefly is Ok if you can think of it as "Buffy in space" or a western (which mostly just appeal to you Americans btw), but the moment you try to think of it as scifi, your brain explodes. Scifi is supposed to be "epic" (like, storylines that decide the fate of millions, planet killer weapons, etc etc), and it's supposed to have a world that's completely different from ours. I watched maybe 2-3 episodes and I never saw a trace of any of that in Firefly. Maybe it's in there somewhere, and in that case I might change my opinion; but all I saw was a lame western with uninteresting storylines and characters who behave like they are living in 1800th century America. Then again, except for the western part, that description applies to almost every TV show anyway.
I mean, if I really wanted to watch completely ordinary people trying to get through day to day life, I would just open the window; then I could watch it for free 24/7 with the highest possible screen quality and stereo sound. But nah...
Firefly and Buffy are two very different show in every single aspect that there are to show-making. I don't see why SCI-FI should be so epic? It's because you're used to it being epic, with super mega corps and extreme technology. Firefly is a sci-fi show in terms of showing us how we might end up in 500 years. The society we have in Firefly aren't farfetched, since it's idea evolved from the very society we have today.
Firefly is interesting because it shows the life and developement of the crew in their everyday lifes. We can relate to them.
Also, the humor is great.
Maybe you didn't see his gamer tag, but Jackcolt is Danish
Fact is the any show that only ran 1 season will not have the depth of a show that ran 7 just due to the number of episodes. But anyone that has watched Firefly knows that a lot things had to be cut short and simplfied becuase they knew FOX had canned them.
Anyone wanna tell me about Firefly,like the plot,what channel its on,etc..Thanks.
I am so good, I backstabbed your face!
They
don't control the planets, they are the cheap labour that has been
placed there to eke out a living harvesting resources for the big
powers. They are pioneers essentially, prospectors. Why would the core
planets care what goes on in the outer planets, as long as they are
profitting from it. Terraforming a planet would be cheap and easy to do
compared to stripping a planet of resources, besides, mining a planet
of minerals is not the only resources they could refer to. It could be
crops of food and such, so mining a planet dry might not be the purpose
of terraforming.
I don't know where you get the concept that all sci-fi must be epic.
How many times a year can one group of people possibly save the world?
And if they are generic people with no background or that you can't
relate to why would you even care.
Looking for a family that you can game with for life? Check out Grievance at https://www.grievancegaming.org !
With a theory like that then Family Guy is a crap show too. Considering it got canned after the first season on Fox as well.
---------------------------------------------
I live to fight, and fight to live.
Even then, it was popular enough to base a movie on it. I loved this
show but it had very little to do with the universe or plot. I loved
the characters and they are the reason I watched the show. I'm not
giving Firefly any extra attention until I see some features. But when
I heard the news...I did say "cool".
Feel free to register at my site to discuss this game further.
Thanks and have a great day!
Cool.
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~MMORPG23
as long as it doesn't involves Elves, mages, and gnomes, and duel wield +1 short swords it has my vote ten fold!!
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
shhhhhh, you're giving me a rash with your naughty and bad attitude.
I know someone who is on someone's naughty list!
............. dont troll Santa now; it was just a figure of speech
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.