7 million subscriptions is peanuts. Real MMOs have 50+ million, with concurrent numbers aproaching 1 million. Even profit-wise, WoW isn't big. The return on investment is incredibly small, compared to big earners in MMO world.
Of course, big and profitable games don't have orcs or magic.
Another MMO with more then 7+ mil concurrent subscribers?? Which one?
ROI for Blizzard for WoW is humongous. For 2006 WoW only, Revenue at least anywhere betwen $1.1B - $1.17B ($13x7milx12months)
I took $13 cause its the lowest monthly charge if you subsribe to 6 months in advance.
Lets say they got 1000 of employees, developers and CSR, all of them worldwide. (Which they dont)
Each employee makes 100k(they dont, some execs do, but we take this as an average, the actual average would be much smaller).
1000 x 100k = 100 mill
All of the servers is the only thing I dont know of, price wise, i doubt they cost half a billion for Blizzard.
Who are the "big earners in MMO world"?
The biggest game I've read about in Asia was Lineage, and If I recall correctly it had about 4 million subsribers.
50 milion !?! $13- $15 bux a month, and its not known to the Western world!??!? Wierd, wouldnt you say??
Originally posted by ianmcc right... were do i start... 1) a decent mmo should have "afk" skills and youve just admitted that gw isnt an mmo pretty much... and neither is unreal tournament so gw shouldnt even b put on this website 2)not much has changed since april 05 apart from a few skills functioning differently and slightly different interface 3)gw is cheeper to run than wow and im not sure how to explain it technically but when i find what i mean then ill gladly let you know if u realy want... (a friend explained it and he is very good with these things and every1 i met apart from u believe it ) 4)i cant find anything on that link what says factions came out 6 months b4 nightfall and even if is 6 months thats still a short amount of time to be releasing full priced retail cd-roms. 5)i also own gw and i go on it now and then and id say im an above average player and i need real people 90% of the missions now can we let it rest that i prefer wow over gw plz?
City of Heroes/Villains has none of that (as far as I know, I could be wrong) and still falls under the MMO definition. Plus, did you know that many GW PvPers came from games like UT and CSS, because of GW's competitive nature?
Let's see... I'll only count "core" changes not related to a particular chapter. Balance tweaks, nerfs to quests/missions deemed too difficult by the carebears, green items, a bunch of new item skins, 2 aesthetic interface changes, conglomeration of lv 20 arenas into a single one, subsequent movement of PvP areas into the Battle Isles, Zaishen training areas, mechanics changes to the Tomb of Primeval Kings (now Heroes' Ascent), henchmen controls, party search, material storage, guild alliances (a player can be in one if he doesn't own Factions), new arenas and guild halls (you can play in them even if you don't own the related chapter). It might not seem much, but considering the kind of game we're talking about, it's not little either.
It's not hard to understand why WoW would be more expensive: tons of bandwidth for all those servers it has. But "less cheap" doesn't make good, as GW is extremely optimized due to its world-wide nature and has too a lot of server farms (supposedly provided by NCSoft).
Then you're not as "above average" as you think. I know "average" players which are really BAD at PvP that cleared Prophecies with henchmen only.
That rightfully said, I respect the fact that you like WoW more than GW
Originally posted by ianmcc ok youve just repeated nearly everything we hav discussed... and i AINT repeating it so i suggest u read it properly before posting anything else on the subject o yes and i remember another problem with gw, the "community" , there are far too many people like u that play gw who think they r right and any1 who disagrees is obviously wrong... and arenanet cant produce a game as successful as wow or ano other mainstream mmo. and that gibberish about people being split up so a person only encounters a few people... seems loke nonsense and frankly i dnt care coz it is a good thing and stops overcrowding, gw wouldnt b able to handle numbers like wow controls and would probably explode in2 a big ball of flame (wich wouldnt b a bad thing now i mention it) bsides i bet that most gw players hav never tried wow and r too boneidol to get a free trial. also i think that 7mil+ people is a pretty secure number and remains unmatched by any mmo.
I agree there are far too many people who think they're always right, but sadly they're in almost every MMORPG (few exceptions around, like Ryzom); the community in GW can be expecially harsh given its competitive nature, but a mature person will just ignore idiots and move on. As of me, I speak and argue with you becase I am competent and support my statement with facts - which you don't.
ANet already produced an incredibly successful game, just look at the news. 3 million of copies sold is a large achievement, considering it's not a game like WoW that just about everyone can like, and it's not a monthly fee game. And let's not forget who are the people behind ANet (I'll let you find the names on the site and google them, as homework)
Again on the numbers, WoW doesn't handle huge numbers of players at the same time. GW does, EVE does, but WoW and most MMORPGs just split them up among different servers. Seriously, any company can handle a dozen thousand players on a server cluster, and
Blizzard just has many server clusters to split their 7mil players among. You connect to IP 1.2.3.4 instead of 5.6.7.8, it's that simple.
I trial'd WoW, twice. The second time I just gave up after a couple hours. WoW is a polished MMORPG but canonic after all, and I realized I don't like canonic MMORPGs.
Originally posted by Rekrul One thing GW doesn't add is rewards for playing more than others. You cannot grind yourself into superiority. This is what turns MANY people off. This is the key difference between WoW and GW.
Quoted for truth and emphasis. GW cannot hide the fact that a player is poor at the game.
Originally posted by neoteo guildwars is better then wow becose = a lot more complex game play.
Can't agree on "GW is better than WoW", but the gameplay definitely is more complex. Top level PvP has so many things to do and take into consideration that I couldn't list them all, I just do them automatically thanks to experience: but if you put all that information at the same time into a PvP newbie, it'd be mind-boggling.
im just saying to be anoying to the wow fanboys they are diferent games , that should not be compared for me gw is better then wow , but that is my personal opinion
I personally believe that Guild Wars is better. Many people prefer guild wars because it is free but i like it because of the game play and the variety of quests that you can do. Im not saying that WoW is bad or anything, its just that im not prepared to pay quite a large amount of money monthly for a game when i could be using that cash for other things and that in my personal opinion, Guild Wars is better. Anybody else agree with me?
guildwars is better then wow becose = a lot more complex game play.
all the rest is scenario
wow = tic tac toe
gw = chess
gw is NOT more complex and thats pritty much sums up y i dislike gw coz its too simple, the combat is better in gw but that is it, wow is a far more complex game with afk skills, mounts , flying mounts, higher lelels, different races and more classes/professions (though gw has more combinations but i personally prefer the 12 or so wow classes than the 50 or so profession combinations). so if u want to compare these games to board games then gw is snakes and ladders and wow is monopoly.
A new continent every 6 months is no new content? Is there any other game out there that adds a new world of same size out every 6 months? In addition to that, there's usually one more area addition in between, including all the usual holiday events.
that new continent added every "6 month" is not new content, it is actually an expansion and it costs full retail price for a standard cd/dvd ROM and factions and nightfall dnt even come close to the origional prophecies. WoW have just released a new continent/expansion called burning crusade i believe and they r still buisy making the odd new content now and then.
Originally posted by ianmcc gw is NOT more complex and thats pritty much sums up y i dislike gw coz its too simple, the combat is better in gw but that is it, wow is a far more complex game with afk skills, mounts , flying mounts, higher lelels, different races and more classes/professions (though gw has more combinations but i personally prefer the 12 or so wow classes than the 50 or so profession combinations). so if u want to compare these games to board games then gw is snakes and ladders and wow is monopoly. a little example of my own used there
"Complexity <> Number of features", just like "Skill <> Power of your items"; would you mind explaining how mounts, trade skills or levels make things complex? And trust me, if someone from a guild standing at the very top of the world ladder tells you the game is extremely complex, it is extremely complex (at least from a PvP perspective). I've been playing for 18 months, I've come this far and I still haven't mastered the game.
Originally posted by ianmcc that new continent added every "6 month" is not new content, it is actually an expansion and it costs full retail price for a standard cd/dvd ROM and factions and nightfall dnt even come close to the origional prophecies. WoW have just released a new continent/expansion called burning crusade i believe and they r still buisy making the odd new content now and then.
One could argue how paying for WoW retail and fee - since you're comparing it to GW again - costs 3x more than buying a GW box every 6 months. I made the calculations when Factions came out, you can search for the post if you want.
"Complexity <> Number of features", just like "Skill <> Power of your items"; would you mind explaining how mounts, trade skills or levels make things complex? And trust me, if someone from a guild standing at the very top of the world ladder tells you the game is extremely complex, it is extremely complex (at least from a PvP perspective). I've been playing for 18 months, I've come this far and I still haven't mastered the game.
those are examples explaining how complex wow is to gw, they are not the full list... and what does gw hav that wow doesnt that makes it more complex? and whoever this person is who is in this guild at the very top of the ladder i sure would like to talk to him coz he must b a liar if he says gw is more complex than wow. and if u hav been playing for 18 solid months then i congradulate u for being the longest person 2 stick with gw i ever met lol.
Oorigionally posted by Akaraxle
one could argue how paying for WoW retail and fee - since you're comparing it to GW again - costs 3x more than buying a GW box every 6 months. I made the calculations when Factions came out, you can search for the post if you want.
where did u get this 3x from? i suggest u recalculate it...
heres my calculations...
gw release around 2 full retail price expansions at £40
so thats £80 annualy
wow released the 1st disc at £20
and its £8 a month
20
+(8*12) =96
total=116
plus expansion at £20(burning crusade)=£136 released once a year, maybe even less
now the difference... 136-80=56
now thats 56 pound extra for countless updates, great costomer service including in game help and u get the big cheese of the mmo market .
if u buy the gw collectors editions at 50 quid then the difference is even less...
Originally posted by ianmcc those are examples explaining how complex wow is to gw, they are not the full list... and what does gw hav that wow doesnt that makes it more complex? and whoever this person is who is in this guild at the very top of the ladder i sure would like to talk to him coz he must b a liar if he says gw is more complex than wow. and if u hav been playing for 18 solid months then i congradulate u for being the longest person 2 stick with gw i ever met lol.
That would be me, I play with Clan Detained. I can list some of the parameters a skilled player (not to read as "uber leet player in raid gear") should take into consideration: positioning on the map, kiting, energy management, target priority, general battle awareness, timing, quick decisions, prediction, and so on. Each one of these "skills" aren't something you read on the manual, or the tutorial teaches you, nor they are amplified in any way by "loot". Only experience teaches you those; in WoW, generally (there are exceptions), you only need to have superior equipment to win.
where did u get this 3x from? i suggest u recalculate it... heres my calculations... gw release around 2 full retail price expansions at £40 so thats £80 annualy wow released the 1st disc at £20 and its £8 a month 20 +(8*12) =96 total=116 plus expansion at £20(burning crusade)=£136 released once a year, maybe even less now the difference... 136-80=56 now thats 56 pound extra for countless updates, great costomer service including in game help and u get the big cheese of the mmo market . if u buy the gw collectors editions at 50 quid then the difference is even less...
My calculations were made in EUR, and based on play.com prices (the cheapest at that moment).
When WoW came out it costed around 40 EUR for the retail box. A six-month plan for WoW is discounted at 11 EUR per month, which in a year makes 132 EUR. Sum it all up and you've got a grand total of 172 EUR a year (note: I was planning the expansion to come out year after, but - as usual with Blizzard - it still hasn't been released).
GW: Prophecies costed 27 EUR from the very start, and so did Factions. Double the amount and you've got a grand total of 54 EUR.
Of course we're talking about Standard editions here, don't forget WoW had an expensive Collector's too. But CE's don't count anyway since they provide no real in-game benefit.
That would be me, I play with Clan Detained. I can list some of the parameters a skilled player (not to read as "uber leet player in raid gear") should take into consideration: positioning on the map, kiting, energy management, target priority, general battle awareness, timing, quick decisions, prediction, and so on. Each one of these "skills" aren't something you read on the manual, or the tutorial teaches you, nor they are amplified in any way by "loot". Only experience teaches you those; in WoW, generally (there are exceptions), you only need to have superior equipment to win.
youve only talked about the PvP side of gw and personally i prefer the PvE side of mmo's (if u prefer PvP then thats ur decision) and the majority of players prefer the PvE side. now i havnt got much experience in PvP so im not sure what the PvP community look for in a game. im sure wow offers a lot of them aspects youve listed what PvP involves. a lot of people (me included) find superior equipment a good way of showing tallents bcoz superior equipment generally requires large amounts of money and high skills/levels, gw doesnt offer this in PvE bcoz the maximum lvl of 20 is far too low and can b achieved in factions campaign in a day and there is a max dmg for each weapon, there are various upgrades that are tough to get but doesnt stand up to getting better equipment in general.
originally posted by Akaraxle
My calculations were made in EUR, and based on play.com prices (the cheapest at that moment).
When WoW came out it costed around 40 EUR for the retail box. A six-month plan for WoW is discounted at 11 EUR per month, which in a year makes 132 EUR. Sum it all up and you've got a grand total of 172 EUR a year (note: I was planning the expansion to come out year after, but - as usual with Blizzard - it still hasn't been released).
GW: Prophecies costed 27 EUR from the very start, and so did Factions. Double the amount and you've got a grand total of 54 EUR.
there you have used the cheapest price for the gw discs and the most expensive price for WoW, i used the release prices for both of them bcoz shops make prices cheeper if they arent selling, making it incorrect, so one shop could sell gw realy cheap if no1 buys and another could sell wow cheep (and more expensive if a lot of people buy). now im not sure if they cost more or less in europe but i kno for a fact that in the UK, ROI and the U.S wow only works out a fraction more expensive and the majority of costomers come from these places listed. im sure wow works out better in the rest of europe bcoz i kno for a fact that WoW didnt charge full retail price for the origional and i kno gw does so i think u may of got it wrong or u tried 2 totaly different sellers.
Having played GW and WoW, both for quite some time, I enjoy GW more than WoW. This is simply my opinion and I respect the opinions of others.
Just so you know, I was in a large guild in WoW and I was having a blast. Eventually though, I just got bored with the massive amounts of grinding it took to reach lvl 60. I also got annoyed with the constant changes to skills the WoW team kept making. While looking at the Burning Crusades talents, it seems to me that Blizzard has their own ideas of what each class should do when in a party and are creating the talent trees to reflect that. By that I mean picking one talent tree over another (i.e. holy priest over shadow priest).
PvE-wise, I enjoy the story of GW. WoW's story is kick-ass, but it comes from a long-standing game series. The thing about GW's story is that, to me, it's more immersive. By having an instanced world, I can do a quest to change something, and it will actually be changed (i.e. the command post quests in nightfall). WoW has a good PvE system as well, they are just different, and I prefer GW.
As far as PvP goes, I don't really do much PvP. I'm just not that competetive. GW is a little more complex than WoW in terms of PvP just b/c you have to choose which skills you use and what your attributes are, but you can use strategies and all that in WoW; especially if you're in a guild.
All in all, both WoW and GW are great games, but as the saying goes, "To each his own" and I happen to enjoy GW more.
Also, on the fact of 7+ million WoW players, that number doesn't mean the game is the best game ever made. Take a look at the Reader's Choice awards on this website. EVE beat WoW in every category they were nominated for. I know this has nothing to do with the topic, I'm just pointing out that you can't use 7+ million players as an argument for which is the better game.
Playerbase size is, of course, for the 1000x time an invalid argument. You can take a simple analogy in music choice - while someone would stick blindly to the top music charts (I know loads of people, sadly), I find this kind of music plain crap because it's hyperproduced for quantity (thus making teh buck) and not quality. It is a personal taste, nothing more. What I'm saying is that popularity doesn't mean jack - all it shows is amount of money spent on it's advertising, not it's superior quality.
Originally posted by ianmcc youve only talked about the PvP side of gw and personally i prefer the PvE side of mmo's (if u prefer PvP then thats ur decision) and the majority of players prefer the PvE side. now i havnt got much experience in PvP so im not sure what the PvP community look for in a game. im sure wow offers a lot of them aspects youve listed what PvP involves. a lot of people (me included) find superior equipment a good way of showing tallents bcoz superior equipment generally requires large amounts of money and high skills/levels, gw doesnt offer this in PvE bcoz the maximum lvl of 20 is far too low and can b achieved in factions campaign in a day and there is a max dmg for each weapon, there are various upgrades that are tough to get but doesnt stand up to getting better equipment in general.
I've talked about the PvP side, but if you apply those concepts within an organized PvE group, you'll completely destroy any opposition - in other words, you'll be better at PvE too. It's not a matter of PvPers being "more leet", but PvP is simply more challenging than PvE because you're fighting smart enemies, so when you face dumb AI again you tend to find it easy. You say "a lot of people find superior equipment a good way of showing talents, because superior equipment requires large amounts of money and high skills/levels". I can summarize that for you: a lot of people have more time in their hands than others. Those people (which you say you're party of) fool themselves in the thought of being more skilled than others, because you've "worked hard" to gain a high level and tons of gold, but in truth you've simply invested more time. GW doesn't give you the chance to be better than the rest because you've grinded more, nor does it reward you with more powerful weapons because you've farmed like a madman. You might have a sword with a super-rare skin worth 1M gold, but functionally it's the same as a puny shortsword with the same damage that you can buy for 5k at a crafter, and it won't hide the fact that you suck at the game.
there you have used the cheapest price for the gw discs and the most expensive price for WoW, i used the release prices for both of them bcoz shops make prices cheeper if they arent selling, making it incorrect, so one shop could sell gw realy cheap if no1 buys and another could sell wow cheep (and more expensive if a lot of people buy). now im not sure if they cost more or less in europe but i kno for a fact that in the UK, ROI and the U.S wow only works out a fraction more expensive and the majority of costomers come from these places listed. im sure wow works out better in the rest of europe bcoz i kno for a fact that WoW didnt charge full retail price for the origional and i kno gw does so i think u may of got it wrong or u tried 2 totaly different sellers.
Actually, for every shop I checked, GW was always less expensive than other retail games like WoW or Oblivion. Here in Italy (where every game you buy is a rip-off) the difference was smaller, but WoW still costed around 10 EUR or so more than GW. Even counting that, the cost is more than 2x-2.5x anyway, although - as I said before - it's kind of pointless to compare the prices.
P.S. Note that I also included the cheapest fee for WoW, the 6 months subscription.
I've talked about the PvP side, but if you apply those concepts within an organized PvE group, you'll completely destroy any opposition - in other words, you'll be better at PvE too. It's not a matter of PvPers being "more leet", but PvP is simply more challenging than PvE because you're fighting smart enemies, so when you face dumb AI again you tend to find it easy.
You say "a lot of people find superior equipment a good way of showing talents, because superior equipment requires large amounts of money and high skills/levels". I can summarize that for you: a lot of people have more time in their hands than others. Those people (which you say you're party of) fool themselves in the thought of being more skilled than others, because you've "worked hard" to gain a high level and tons of gold, but in truth you've simply invested more time.
GW doesn't give you the chance to be better than the rest because you've grinded more, nor does it reward you with more powerful weapons because you've farmed like a madman. You might have a sword with a super-rare skin worth 1M gold, but functionally it's the same as a puny shortsword with the same damage that you can buy for 5k at a crafter, and it won't hide the fact that you suck at the game.
basically... gw offers no PvE, i personally think its just PvP but fighting computers instead of people, i guess ya could call it PvC instead . im not interested in a game what you can get good at in a matter of days or even hours like with gw... skills and lvls and weapons are offered on a plate and arent at all difficult to obtain, you said something about training how u position urself on the map and use skills and energy management... that doesnt seem very interesting and fun like games should b, no u make it sound like a sport, and if that was what i was looking for id concerntrate on an actual sport coz youll get a lot more satisfaction out of a sport than playing gw what has the same proporties as a sport
and i finished prophesies 2x, factions 1.5(got bored half way thru ) and completed nightfall once and got 15k armour on one char. now i dnt mean to brag and i aint saying im super amazing like u but i think i can rival a large number of the gw community at the "PvE" side of gw and i wouldnt say i suck at GW compared to other people. i may suck at the PvP side but thats bcoz i have never tried it fully bcoz like i sed its more of a computer sport than an mmorpg game.
origionally posted by Akaraxle
Actually, for every shop I checked, GW was always less expensive than other retail games like WoW or Oblivion. Here in Italy (where every game you buy is a rip-off) the difference was smaller, but WoW still costed around 10 EUR or so more than GW. Even counting that, the cost is more than 2x-2.5x anyway, although - as I said before - it's kind of pointless to compare the prices.
maybe u might wanna try the U.K or R.O.I or U.S highstreet? i realy dnt care about italian shops and neither does any1 who comes from them places (the majority of mmo players) if wow does cost 2-2.5x as much in italy and ur not fibbing us then yes i suggest u should buy gw coz that is far too big of a difference in price. and yes comparing prices is not that important but value for money is one of the big reasons to choose a game but wow is far bigger than gw and that is taking EVERYTHING into account and not just pvp and pve. of course if u never play one of the game modes then buy the one wich offers the best for that type. but dnt go saying that game is better coz it aint.
you must be supper smart you are saying you can learn +/- 1100 skills in a few days or even hours that line makes everything else you say about guildwars meaningless anyone that plays the game knows it takes a lot of experience to be a master in guildwars if there is such thing
someone made the math in a fan site , the possible combinations of skills in the skill bar was something like 50 000 000 000 000 000
I played WoW for 2 years first as a die-hard soloer and then as part of a busy raiding guild.
WoW is a terrific game, but I wouldn't necessarily call it the "best". Blizzard makes quality games designed with mass appeal--not excellence--in mind.
1-60 (now 70 I guess) WoW is a fantastic game for almost any preferred style of play. Unfortunately, at the top levels it becomes a game of "raid until your wife/gf/family leave you".
Also, on the fact of 7+ million WoW players, that number doesn't mean the game is the best game ever made. Take a look at the Reader's Choice awards on this website. EVE beat WoW in every category they were nominated for. I know this has nothing to do with the topic, I'm just pointing out that you can't use 7+ million players as an argument for which is the better game.
firstly eve is a great game and i am a fan of it, who knows maybe i might get into it if i get bored of wow... but i prefer the traditional role of controlling a person in a massive world than controlling a space ship in massive space. but thats off topic, the thread is called "guild wars better than wow?" and eve could even be better than both of them ( i have never played eve properly, only the trial). but 7+million is very important, that means that over 7 million people chose wow over gw and only about 100,000-500,000 (permanent gw players) chose gw over wow so i think thats a very important figure, and finally i never mentioned anything even close about wow being the best game ever made (though im sure its easily in the top 20). i mean gw isnt even a true mmo!
originally posted by torquemada40
Playerbase size is, of course, for the 1000x time an invalid argument. You can take a simple analogy in music choice - while someone would stick blindly to the top music charts (I know loads of people, sadly), I find this kind of music plain crap because it's hyperproduced for quantity (thus making teh buck) and not quality. It is a personal taste, nothing more. What I'm saying is that popularity doesn't mean jack - all it shows is amount of money spent on it's advertising, not it's superior quality.
i totaly agree with the music popularity, some chart music absoloutley sucks... but mo popularity is totaly different, when we talk about music charts we are including hundreds of different genres of music and everyone has different tastes, but we are only talking about 1 genre of game here, mmorpg (well 2 if u dnt count gw as an mmo) and they are very easy to compare and this is when the importance of popularity plays a significant role as i sed above. of course there are the few exceptions who may prefer gw over wow but they cannot say that gw is "better" and far superior because wow is actually considered the 'daddy' of the mmo genre. now im trying not to say that wow is better than gw bit i am just saying that i prefer wow and... so do over 7m people and ill save all the "wow is better than gw" stuff for another more appropriate time
all i can say is , if i was a mod in this forums , all topics like this would be moved to General Discussion .. why do we have to te live with this ... this topic looks so ugly we have to read posts people saying guildwars is not even a mmo .. camon ..
think im going to start posting in wow forum , the war as started again
i mean , people come here and say BS about guildwars ... not fair
im going to start and say lies all over wow forum..
revange
there is no "war"... we are just discussing and i suggest u lighten up and most of it isnt bs... just read it properly
origionally posted by neoteo
guildwars is better then wow becose = a lot more complex game play.
all the rest is scenario
wow = tic tac toe
gw = chess
terrible example comparing mmo's (including gw) with board games and u got it totaly wrong, as a whole wow is far more complex
origionally posted by neoteo
im just saying to be anoying to the wow fanboys
they are diferent games , that should not be compared
for me gw is better then wow , but that is my personal opinion
like the old sk8 vs bmx war ...
who are the "wow fanboys"? wouldnt it b better and least offensive to call them something along the lines of wow players or the wow community? and plz stop pretending its a war, there was no war and there never will be lol. "like the old sk8 vs bmx war" very good example as they are both good in their own way. better than comparing them to board games eh?
origionally posted by neoteo
im playing gw for 20 months
and btw , nice trolling
you see the reason we cant explain to you why gw is more complex to wow
is the same reason you play wow and you dont play gw
erm its great u played gw for 20 months... not . i dnt kno what the hell trolling is coz im new to the mmorpg.com forums and i have never heard that expression before (off topic). and the reason u cant explain y gw is more complex to wow is bcoz it isnt... gw may have more complex combat but that cannot stand upto everything wow has that gw doesnt...
origionally posted by neoteo
you must be supper smart
you are saying you can learn +/- 1100 skills in a few days or even hours
that line makes everything else you say about guildwars meaningless
anyone that plays the game knows it takes a lot of experience to be a master in guildwars
if there is such thing
someone made the math in a fan site , the possible combinations of skills in the skill bar was something like 50 000 000 000 000
im not "supper smart", and i dunno what these 1100 skills r what u talk of, and i cant quite make out what anything else means in ur little speech...
origionally posted by neoteo
all i can say is , if i was a mod in this forums , all topics like this would be moved to General Discussion .. why do we have to te live with this ...
this topic looks so ugly
we have to read posts people saying guildwars is not even a mmo ..
camon ..
/sad
firstly you are not a mod and u never will be if u contilue posting messages like that, this is merely a discussion and we are debating (what this thread was made for) as it is titled "guild wars better than wow?" as you can see that is a question and people are allowed to disagree that gw is better if they want... and we have given enough info that gw isnt an mmo and i suggest that u just accept it coz gw is a good game but i think ill stick to my traditional mmo's if u dnt mind.
i tried not to take notice of any of ur posts bcoz they were absoloutley pointless with no evidence i them. but i feel itsa the only way youll learn
I do not mean to sound at all condescending but you have a hard time articulating your words into coherent readable content. You sound like some sort of 9 year old 'noob' if i will.
Let me address the facts here.... Because people refuse to do it..
Not only is Guild Wars Better then WoW, Wow is bordering on the worst game being played right now....
Years and years of game making experience from other developers blatantly ripped off by execs at Blizzard Entertainment and created a bland and boring mass appeal piece of garbage...
There isn't one piece of programming in the game that can be considered complex... If anything the only pluses it has is its simplicity.. Having a large feature set on bullet points is in no way complexity you may want to look up the meaning of the word. WoW is a perfect time sink for a demographic of gamers who either don't know better or have sold out. Flam me all you want this is truth. The game polutes the gamer base and causes the world of video games to be diluted and ultimately WORSE... Focus on quantity and not quality should be the motto for the game. It's pure novelty and your alllll in love with novelty.... So go read a book or two like Fahrenheit 451... You are lost in th novelty of bull shit....
Guild Wars is a game for gamers who still intend on being good at games and increasing their skill as a gamer... Not stagnating in the filth of 7 million 13 year old boys...
Originally posted by ianmcc now i move on to a very obscure person...origionally posted by neoteo think im going to start posting in wow forum , the war as started again i mean , people come here and say BS about guildwars ... not fair im going to start and say lies all over wow forum.. revangethere is no "war"... we are just discussing and i suggest u lighten up and most of it isnt bs... just read it properlyorigionally posted by neoteo guildwars is better then wow becose = a lot more complex game play. all the rest is scenario wow = tic tac toe gw = chessterrible example comparing mmo's (including gw) with board games and u got it totaly wrong, as a whole wow is far more complexorigionally posted by neoteo im just saying to be anoying to the wow fanboys they are diferent games , that should not be compared for me gw is better then wow , but that is my personal opinion like the old sk8 vs bmx war ... who are the "wow fanboys"? wouldnt it b better and least offensive to call them something along the lines of wow players or the wow community? and plz stop pretending its a war, there was no war and there never will be lol. "like the old sk8 vs bmx war" very good example as they are both good in their own way. better than comparing them to board games eh?origionally posted by neoteo im playing gw for 20 months and btw , nice trolling you see the reason we cant explain to you why gw is more complex to wow is the same reason you play wow and you dont play gw erm its great u played gw for 20 months... not . i dnt kno what the hell trolling is coz im new to the mmorpg.com forums and i have never heard that expression before (off topic). and the reason u cant explain y gw is more complex to wow is bcoz it isnt... gw may have more complex combat but that cannot stand upto everything wow has that gw doesnt...origionally posted by neoteo you must be supper smart you are saying you can learn +/- 1100 skills in a few days or even hours that line makes everything else you say about guildwars meaningless anyone that plays the game knows it takes a lot of experience to be a master in guildwars if there is such thing someone made the math in a fan site , the possible combinations of skills in the skill bar was something like 50 000 000 000 000 im not "supper smart", and i dunno what these 1100 skills r what u talk of, and i cant quite make out what anything else means in ur little speech...origionally posted by neoteo all i can say is , if i was a mod in this forums , all topics like this would be moved to General Discussion .. why do we have to te live with this ... this topic looks so ugly we have to read posts people saying guildwars is not even a mmo .. camon .. /sadfirstly you are not a mod and u never will be if u contilue posting messages like that, this is merely a discussion and we are debating (what this thread was made for) as it is titled "guild wars better than wow?" as you can see that is a question and people are allowed to disagree that gw is better if they want... and we have given enough info that gw isnt an mmo and i suggest that u just accept it coz gw is a good game but i think ill stick to my traditional mmo's if u dnt mind. i tried not to take notice of any of ur posts bcoz they were absoloutley pointless with no evidence i them. but i feel itsa the only way youll learn
see , you dont even know that guildwars as +/- 1100 skills
you are making your selfe look ridiculus with your comments
Comments
ROI for Blizzard for WoW is humongous. For 2006 WoW only, Revenue at least anywhere betwen $1.1B - $1.17B ($13x7milx12months)
I took $13 cause its the lowest monthly charge if you subsribe to 6 months in advance.
Lets say they got 1000 of employees, developers and CSR, all of them worldwide. (Which they dont)
Each employee makes 100k(they dont, some execs do, but we take this as an average, the actual average would be much smaller).
1000 x 100k = 100 mill
All of the servers is the only thing I dont know of, price wise, i doubt they cost half a billion for Blizzard.
Who are the "big earners in MMO world"?
The biggest game I've read about in Asia was Lineage, and If I recall correctly it had about 4 million subsribers.
50 milion !?! $13- $15 bux a month, and its not known to the Western world!??!? Wierd, wouldnt you say??
guildwars is better then wow becose = a lot more complex game play.
all the rest is scenario
wow = tic tac toe
gw = chess
Guild - http://lightness.goodforum.net/
Blog - http://www.pierrecarlier.com/
That rightfully said, I respect the fact that you like WoW more than GW
- I agree there are far too many people who think they're always right, but sadly they're in almost every MMORPG (few exceptions around, like Ryzom); the community in GW can be expecially harsh given its competitive nature, but a mature person will just ignore idiots and move on. As of me, I speak and argue with you becase I am competent and support my statement with facts - which you don't.
- ANet already produced an incredibly successful game, just look at the news. 3 million of copies sold is a large achievement, considering it's not a game like WoW that just about everyone can like, and it's not a monthly fee game. And let's not forget who are the people behind ANet (I'll let you find the names on the site and google them, as homework)
- Again on the numbers, WoW doesn't handle huge numbers of players at the same time. GW does, EVE does, but WoW and most MMORPGs just split them up among different servers. Seriously, any company can handle a dozen thousand players on a server cluster, and
- Blizzard just has many server clusters to split their 7mil players among. You connect to IP 1.2.3.4 instead of 5.6.7.8, it's that simple.
- I trial'd WoW, twice. The second time I just gave up after a couple hours. WoW is a polished MMORPG but canonic after all, and I realized I don't like canonic MMORPGs.
Quoted for truth and emphasis. GW cannot hide the fact that a player is poor at the game. Can't agree on "GW is better than WoW", but the gameplay definitely is more complex. Top level PvP has so many things to do and take into consideration that I couldn't list them all, I just do them automatically thanks to experience: but if you put all that information at the same time into a PvP newbie, it'd be mind-boggling.im just saying to be anoying to the wow fanboys
they are diferent games , that should not be compared
for me gw is better then wow , but that is my personal opinion
like the old sk8 vs bmx war ...
Guild - http://lightness.goodforum.net/
Blog - http://www.pierrecarlier.com/
I personally believe that Guild Wars is better. Many people prefer guild wars because it is free but i like it because of the game play and the variety of quests that you can do. Im not saying that WoW is bad or anything, its just that im not prepared to pay quite a large amount of money monthly for a game when i could be using that cash for other things and that in my personal opinion, Guild Wars is better. Anybody else agree with me?
appl
gw is NOT more complex and thats pritty much sums up y i dislike gw coz its too simple, the combat is better in gw but that is it, wow is a far more complex game with afk skills, mounts , flying mounts, higher lelels, different races and more classes/professions (though gw has more combinations but i personally prefer the 12 or so wow classes than the 50 or so profession combinations). so if u want to compare these games to board games then gw is snakes and ladders and wow is monopoly.
a little example of my own used there
those are examples explaining how complex wow is to gw, they are not the full list... and what does gw hav that wow doesnt that makes it more complex? and whoever this person is who is in this guild at the very top of the ladder i sure would like to talk to him coz he must b a liar if he says gw is more complex than wow
. and if u hav been playing for 18 solid months then i congradulate u for being the longest person 2 stick with gw i ever met lol.
where did u get this 3x from? i suggest u recalculate it...
heres my calculations...
gw release around 2 full retail price expansions at £40
so thats £80 annualy
wow released the 1st disc at £20
and its £8 a month
20
+(8*12) =96
total=116
plus expansion at £20(burning crusade)=£136 released once a year, maybe even less
now the difference... 136-80=56
now thats 56 pound extra for countless updates, great costomer service including in game help and u get the big cheese of the mmo market
.
if u buy the gw collectors editions at 50 quid then the difference is even less...
When WoW came out it costed around 40 EUR for the retail box. A six-month plan for WoW is discounted at 11 EUR per month, which in a year makes 132 EUR. Sum it all up and you've got a grand total of 172 EUR a year (note: I was planning the expansion to come out year after, but - as usual with Blizzard - it still hasn't been released).
GW: Prophecies costed 27 EUR from the very start, and so did Factions. Double the amount and you've got a grand total of 54 EUR.
Of course we're talking about Standard editions here, don't forget WoW had an expensive Collector's too. But CE's don't count anyway since they provide no real in-game benefit.
youve only talked about the PvP side of gw and personally i prefer the PvE side of mmo's (if u prefer PvP then thats ur decision) and the majority of players prefer the PvE side. now i havnt got much experience in PvP so im not sure what the PvP community look for in a game. im sure wow offers a lot of them aspects youve listed what PvP involves. a lot of people (me included) find superior equipment a good way of showing tallents bcoz superior equipment generally requires large amounts of money and high skills/levels, gw doesnt offer this in PvE bcoz the maximum lvl of 20 is far too low and can b achieved in factions campaign in a day and there is a max dmg for each weapon, there are various upgrades that are tough to get but doesnt stand up to getting better equipment in general.
there you have used the cheapest price for the gw discs and the most expensive price for WoW, i used the release prices for both of them bcoz shops make prices cheeper if they arent selling, making it incorrect, so one shop could sell gw realy cheap if no1 buys and another could sell wow cheep (and more expensive if a lot of people buy). now im not sure if they cost more or less in europe but i kno for a fact that in the UK, ROI and the U.S wow only works out a fraction more expensive and the majority of costomers come from these places listed. im sure wow works out better in the rest of europe bcoz i kno for a fact that WoW didnt charge full retail price for the origional and i kno gw does so i think u may of got it wrong or u tried 2 totaly different sellers.
Having played GW and WoW, both for quite some time, I enjoy GW more than WoW. This is simply my opinion and I respect the opinions of others.
Just so you know, I was in a large guild in WoW and I was having a blast. Eventually though, I just got bored with the massive amounts of grinding it took to reach lvl 60. I also got annoyed with the constant changes to skills the WoW team kept making. While looking at the Burning Crusades talents, it seems to me that Blizzard has their own ideas of what each class should do when in a party and are creating the talent trees to reflect that. By that I mean picking one talent tree over another (i.e. holy priest over shadow priest).
PvE-wise, I enjoy the story of GW. WoW's story is kick-ass, but it comes from a long-standing game series. The thing about GW's story is that, to me, it's more immersive. By having an instanced world, I can do a quest to change something, and it will actually be changed (i.e. the command post quests in nightfall). WoW has a good PvE system as well, they are just different, and I prefer GW.
As far as PvP goes, I don't really do much PvP. I'm just not that competetive. GW is a little more complex than WoW in terms of PvP just b/c you have to choose which skills you use and what your attributes are, but you can use strategies and all that in WoW; especially if you're in a guild.
All in all, both WoW and GW are great games, but as the saying goes, "To each his own" and I happen to enjoy GW more.
im playing gw for 20 months
and btw , nice trolling
you see the reason we cant explain to you why gw is more complex to wow
is the same reason you play wow and you dont play gw
Guild - http://lightness.goodforum.net/
Blog - http://www.pierrecarlier.com/
You say "a lot of people find superior equipment a good way of showing talents, because superior equipment requires large amounts of money and high skills/levels". I can summarize that for you: a lot of people have more time in their hands than others. Those people (which you say you're party of) fool themselves in the thought of being more skilled than others, because you've "worked hard" to gain a high level and tons of gold, but in truth you've simply invested more time.
GW doesn't give you the chance to be better than the rest because you've grinded more, nor does it reward you with more powerful weapons because you've farmed like a madman. You might have a sword with a super-rare skin worth 1M gold, but functionally it's the same as a puny shortsword with the same damage that you can buy for 5k at a crafter, and it won't hide the fact that you suck at the game. Actually, for every shop I checked, GW was always less expensive than other retail games like WoW or Oblivion. Here in Italy (where every game you buy is a rip-off) the difference was smaller, but WoW still costed around 10 EUR or so more than GW. Even counting that, the cost is more than 2x-2.5x anyway, although - as I said before - it's kind of pointless to compare the prices.
P.S. Note that I also included the cheapest fee for WoW, the 6 months subscription.
basically... gw offers no PvE, i personally think its just PvP but fighting computers instead of people, i guess ya could call it PvC instead
. im not interested in a game what you can get good at in a matter of days or even hours like with gw... skills and lvls and weapons are offered on a plate and arent at all difficult to obtain, you said something about training how u position urself on the map and use skills and energy management... that doesnt seem very interesting and fun like games should b, no u make it sound like a sport, and if that was what i was looking for id concerntrate on an actual sport coz youll get a lot more satisfaction out of a sport than playing gw what has the same proporties as a sport
and i finished prophesies 2x, factions 1.5(got bored half way thru
) and completed nightfall once and got 15k armour on one char. now i dnt mean to brag and i aint saying im super amazing like u but i think i can rival a large number of the gw community at the "PvE" side of gw and i wouldnt say i suck at GW compared to other people. i may suck at the PvP side but thats bcoz i have never tried it fully bcoz like i sed its more of a computer sport than an mmorpg game.
maybe u might wanna try the U.K or R.O.I or U.S highstreet? i realy dnt care about italian shops and neither does any1 who comes from them places (the majority of mmo players) if wow does cost 2-2.5x as much in italy and ur not fibbing us then yes i suggest u should buy gw coz that is far too big of a difference in price. and yes comparing prices is not that important but value for money is one of the big reasons to choose a game but wow is far bigger than gw and that is taking EVERYTHING into account and not just pvp and pve. of course if u never play one of the game modes then buy the one wich offers the best for that type. but dnt go saying that game is better coz it aint.
you must be supper smart
you are saying you can learn +/- 1100 skills in a few days or even hours
that line makes everything else you say about guildwars meaningless
anyone that plays the game knows it takes a lot of experience to be a master in guildwars
if there is such thing
someone made the math in a fan site , the possible combinations of skills in the skill bar was something like 50 000 000 000 000 000
Guild - http://lightness.goodforum.net/
Blog - http://www.pierrecarlier.com/
I played WoW for 2 years first as a die-hard soloer and then as part of a busy raiding guild.
WoW is a terrific game, but I wouldn't necessarily call it the "best". Blizzard makes quality games designed with mass appeal--not excellence--in mind.
1-60 (now 70 I guess) WoW is a fantastic game for almost any preferred style of play. Unfortunately, at the top levels it becomes a game of "raid until your wife/gf/family leave you".
firstly eve is a great game and i am a fan of it, who knows maybe i might get into it if i get bored of wow... but i prefer the traditional role of controlling a person in a massive world than controlling a space ship in massive space. but thats off topic, the thread is called "guild wars better than wow?" and eve could even be better than both of them ( i have never played eve properly, only the trial). but 7+million is very important, that means that over 7 million people chose wow over gw and only about 100,000-500,000 (permanent gw players) chose gw over wow so i think thats a very important figure, and finally i never mentioned anything even close about wow being the best game ever made (though im sure its easily in the top 20
). i mean gw isnt even a true mmo!
i totaly agree with the music popularity, some chart music absoloutley sucks... but mo popularity is totaly different, when we talk about music charts we are including hundreds of different genres of music and everyone has different tastes, but we are only talking about 1 genre of game here, mmorpg (well 2 if u dnt count gw as an mmo) and they are very easy to compare and this is when the importance of popularity plays a significant role as i sed above. of course there are the few exceptions who may prefer gw over wow but they cannot say that gw is "better" and far superior because wow is actually considered the 'daddy' of the mmo genre. now im trying not to say that wow is better than gw bit i am just saying that i prefer wow and... so do over 7m people and ill save all the "wow is better than gw" stuff for another more appropriate time
all i can say is , if i was a mod in this forums , all topics like this would be moved to General Discussion .. why do we have to te live with this ...
this topic looks so ugly
we have to read posts people saying guildwars is not even a mmo ..
camon ..
/sad
Guild - http://lightness.goodforum.net/
Blog - http://www.pierrecarlier.com/
now i move on to a very obscure person...
there is no "war"... we are just discussing and i suggest u lighten up and most of it isnt bs... just read it properly
terrible example comparing mmo's (including gw
) with board games and u got it totaly wrong, as a whole wow is far more complex
who are the "wow fanboys"? wouldnt it b better and least offensive to call them something along the lines of wow players or the wow community? and plz stop pretending its a war, there was no war and there never will be lol. "like the old sk8 vs bmx war" very good example as they are both good in their own way. better than comparing them to board games eh?
erm its great u played gw for 20 months... not
. i dnt kno what the hell trolling is coz im new to the mmorpg.com forums and i have never heard that expression before (off topic). and the reason u cant explain y gw is more complex to wow is bcoz it isnt... gw may have more complex combat but that cannot stand upto everything wow has that gw doesnt...
im not "supper smart", and i dunno what these 1100 skills r what u talk of, and i cant quite make out what anything else means in ur little speech...
firstly you are not a mod and u never will be if u contilue posting messages like that, this is merely a discussion and we are debating (what this thread was made for) as it is titled "guild wars better than wow?" as you can see that is a question and people are allowed to disagree that gw is better if they want... and we have given enough info that gw isnt an mmo and i suggest that u just accept it coz gw is a good game but i think ill stick to my traditional mmo's if u dnt mind.
i tried not to take notice of any of ur posts bcoz they were absoloutley pointless with no evidence i them. but i feel itsa the only way youll learn
Let me address the facts here.... Because people refuse to do it..
Not only is Guild Wars Better then WoW, Wow is bordering on the worst game being played right now....
Years and years of game making experience from other developers blatantly ripped off by execs at Blizzard Entertainment and created a bland and boring mass appeal piece of garbage...
There isn't one piece of programming in the game that can be considered complex... If anything the only pluses it has is its simplicity.. Having a large feature set on bullet points is in no way complexity you may want to look up the meaning of the word. WoW is a perfect time sink for a demographic of gamers who either don't know better or have sold out. Flam me all you want this is truth. The game polutes the gamer base and causes the world of video games to be diluted and ultimately WORSE... Focus on quantity and not quality should be the motto for the game. It's pure novelty and your alllll in love with novelty.... So go read a book or two like Fahrenheit 451... You are lost in th novelty of bull shit....
Guild Wars is a game for gamers who still intend on being good at games and increasing their skill as a gamer... Not stagnating in the filth of 7 million 13 year old boys...
see , you dont even know that guildwars as +/- 1100 skills
you are making your selfe look ridiculus with your comments
Guild - http://lightness.goodforum.net/
Blog - http://www.pierrecarlier.com/