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MMO with interesting combat?
EdwardDantes
Member Posts: 3
For Magic: The Gathering, there is a term "Fishbowling". It refers to how a deck would play if your opponent did absolutley nothing to interfere with you. It not a particulary useful measurement of a deck's effectiveness however. After all, the fun in Magic is how plans and strategies collide with each other and change to match the current playing field.
In all the MMOs I've played, it feels precisley like I'm fishbowling. The only thing I have to watch for is the cooldown on my own skills so I can figure out how to do the most damage. At no point would anything my opponent is doing make me switch strategies. Does anyone have suggestions for an MMO where the PvE aspect does not suffer from this issue? (PvP can be all the fun in the world, but if you get bored by the PvE before you can enter serious competition...)
In all the MMOs I've played, it feels precisley like I'm fishbowling. The only thing I have to watch for is the cooldown on my own skills so I can figure out how to do the most damage. At no point would anything my opponent is doing make me switch strategies. Does anyone have suggestions for an MMO where the PvE aspect does not suffer from this issue? (PvP can be all the fun in the world, but if you get bored by the PvE before you can enter serious competition...)
Comments
I find it amazing that by 2020 first world countries will be competing to get immigrants.
Play a dedicated PVP type mmo. You can't program an AI to be that smart without alot of hard work. Here are some suggestions:
If you can make friends quick or have friends playing already. The funnest competitive pvp IMO is DAoC. Friend says it's getting better. Just people arn't giveing it a chance to try it again (such as me). It maybe worth it. I dunno. It's kinda cool snipering people with a bow while hideing by a tree and them not knowing it.
Most combat is the same in all games. The exceptions being:
CoH/CoV: Somewhat cool, but gameplay gets boreing with the same crap over and over
SWG: Eh sorta FPSY. I dunno. It's weird, but not the standard RPG combat
Planetside: Kickass combat. Might try it again. I should just get station access hell I play eq2 ne ways.
EQ2: If you actually use HO's it can be interesting. Other then that nothing new.
WoW: At times can be interesting in pvp or a few strategies in dungeons, but nothing new.
EVE: It's ok. Not much new. Kinda same ol' thing, but with spaceships.
Guildwars: Little more involved, but boreing gameplay IMO. PvP gets old, but hey it's free... lmao
There's a bunch more probably, but I don't really feel like listing them all O.o
Age of Conan is probably the best bet for interesting combat once it releases, but no idea how that'll turn out.
DAoC or WAR are your best bets for good pvp i think, if only because mythic has had so many years (and finaly are) to get their shit together.
AoC is going to have the same troubles most new PvP games have, one class or one faction will be ungodly overpowered compared to the others.
Guild wars is good for PvE challenge, if only because they make NPCs to hard
Everquest 1 is also good for PvE, but mainly because the start of combat can be deadly (bad pull, healer not ready), once you get a good pull and healer is paying attention, its pretty standard spam the button stuff.
Ah, a new sage is born. Oh wise one, tell us more of the future you so infallably see!
I believe that WAR will do very well, but there are no guarantees untill the game is released, or even not untill several weeks after.
As to the comment on AoC, that's an (almost) impossible scenario, since player skill is promised to be the primary determining factor in fights, not level, class, or gear. Oh, and incidently, there are no factions, please do your basic homework before commenting on a game's supposed weakpoints.
No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.
Hemingway
Ah, a new sage is born. Oh wise one, tell us more of the future you so infallably see!
I believe that WAR will do very well, but there are no guarantees untill the game is released, or even not untill several weeks after.
As to the comment on AoC, that's an (almost) impossible scenario, since player skill is promised to be the primary determining factor in fights, not level, class, or gear. Oh, and incidently, there are no factions, please do your basic homework before commenting on a game's supposed weakpoints.
Pwnt...
As far as PVE is concerned, fishbowling is the way it's going to be.
The last true hope I've seen for interactive combat in PVE is what Vanguard promised a couple of years ago...Start combat with a spider, at some point use your kick attack, WATCH the spider flip over, exposing its soft underbelly, get additional critical damage if you struck that area while exposed...Mobs were to react to players' tactics to make combat more challenging (such as moving from melee range and using spells/abilities/ranged attacks, if available) as well...those concepts do not exist, and likely never really have
.
Next future hopes: Darkfall and Fallen Earth
because aslong as people are happy to pay monthly for the same ol regurgitated crap then combat in mmorpgs will stay boring for a very very long time.
meanwhile play savage: the batte for newerth (www.s2games.com) its free and its great.
Just figures that born in this day and age, he'd be too busy playing computer games to foresee anything useful...
Ah, a new sage is born. Oh wise one, tell us more of the future you so infallably see!
I believe that WAR will do very well, but there are no guarantees untill the game is released, or even not untill several weeks after.
As to the comment on AoC, that's an (almost) impossible scenario, since player skill is promised to be the primary determining factor in fights, not level, class, or gear. Oh, and incidently, there are no factions, please do your basic homework before commenting on a game's supposed weakpoints.
There's what, like 80 levels in AoC? Id like to know what you're smoking if you think a good lvl 1 in crap gear will be able to take down a bad lvl 80 in the best gear
ohh and from the official FAQ on your games website:
Is the game level based or skill based?
The game is based around a level progression, as you grow stronger more adventures will open up to you, and you will be able to take part in epic battles with other players in many diverse regions of Hyboria.
So maybe it is you who needs to learn what the hell you're talking about?
Or just go on believing whatever load of BS the devs promise you, like a good gullible little fanboi.
I'm not aware of any MMORPG, or even any CRPG where INTERACTIVE strategy is an integral part of the game.
In fact, the trend in MMORPG's tends to be getting worse, not better. Developers seem to be ignoring the part of WoW that made it great - the quality of its engine and animations - because that part is hard and expensive. Instead, they copy the easy part; the LEAST immersive part of the game: the follow-the-flashing button combat system.
DAoC is a superb game also, which you can get into faster than EVE, the RvR is very good fun, but it is slowly dying under the next gen MMOs.
Guildwars no question
Especially if you liked MagicTHG
"Before this battle is over all the world will know that few...stood against many." - King Leonidas
People more experienced with Vanguard, from beta, tell me that most battles are unique and you're going to have to significantly alter your approach to dealing with different mobs; Like picking out a different set of abilities from a deck of cards.
Under level 10 I haven't noticed much difference from other MMORPGs, aside from the fact that combat is more involving and fun.
Things are getting more complex as I level, though, and I do find myself switching up the kind of abilities I use based on the situation.
I'm sure things are going to change a lot around level 20-30, especially once grouping becomes more critical.
There's what, like 80 levels in AoC? Id like to know what you're smoking if you think a good lvl 1 in crap gear will be able to take down a bad lvl 80 in the best gear
ohh and from the official FAQ on your games website:
Is the game level based or skill based?
The game is based around a level progression, as you grow stronger more adventures will open up to you, and you will be able to take part in epic battles with other players in many diverse regions of Hyboria.
So maybe it is you who needs to learn what the hell you're talking about?
Or just go on believing whatever load of BS the devs promise you, like a good gullible little fanboi.
Once again, you need to read more carefully.
When I said skill, I meant skill as in terms of real life experience working with the real time directional combat system. Skill in this case does not refer to an open ended skill selection as reffered to by the quote you mentioned, although the leveling process is a skill/leveling hybrid.
In AoC, the best gear and the highest level means almost nothing at all if you don't know how to fight, in fact, all it really means is you won't die quite as fast as the newly created character who also can't fight. This game is not your standard autotarget and attack, with maybe a few buttons to hit at the right time.
PvPing characters with a significantly disparate level (for this case, lets use levels 21 and 80) trigger an anti ganking system. The 21 gets a temporary boost to stats, enough to roughly be equivalent with a character of his class of the 80 in terms of HP, strength, etc. It is enough for the 21 to run away and expect to make it, or, alternatively, to stand and fight. The 80 will still have an advantage, don't get me wrong there, but the 21 's skill in working the combat system is liable to win the day if he is sufficiently well versed in it. This is A.) Temporary, B.) Does not as normal allow the character to select attributes to invest in, and C.) Does not grant the feats/skills said character might choose during the normal leveling process. Hmm, perhaps I'm not posting under the influence after all.
Oh and incidently, once again you need to do your homework, its impossible for a level one to fight a level eighty under any circumstances, untill level 20, the new characters are seperated from the rest of the MMO world.
No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.
Hemingway
Guild Wars is what you want. To begin with, level is irrelevant since everybody in PVP is level 20, and you get to that level very easily. There's no gear grind, either, because you can pretty easily unlock the gear mods you want and have them instantly available to any PVP character you make. Basically, with all the expansions, you'll have a few hundred skills to choose from when making a character. Of course, you can only pick eight to use at any one time. These eight skills will fall under any combination of the eight attributes you have available, only seven of which you can level, and you then have to pick how you want to level them. The cool thing is that you can change all of this on the fly. There's no need for a respec option because you can switch your skills and attribute points in a lobby at will.
Characters can actively foil your strategies in Guild Wars. Have a character who relies on enchantments for defense? Other characters might be able to break them. Then there are the many skills which interrupt other skills while they're being cast, leaving you with the cooldown and energy cost but no effect. Of course, the interrupters (usually mesmers) might not be particularly hardy. With a warrior chasing you down, you might not be able to get many skills off. Then again, there are spells which snare warriors or attacks which inflict a slow status. There's also a status which reduces the hit rate of melee and ranged attacks by 90%. Of course, a monk can heal those, provided they're not in trouble themselves. It really goes on from there. Provided you like arena PVP, Guild Wars really cannot be beat for depth and fluidity.
That's assuming you like PVP, though. The PVE is pretty easy, and there isn't a huge amount of content. It might be challenging on your first run through, but you can easily do just about every mission with henchmen once you learn how.