The WOW forums on the net are the most active of any game out there. The WOW forums at their site have hundred of posts every day. GW doesn't even have a forum at their site.
In fact its even hard to find forums for GW, the vnboards at IGN, one of my favorite sites , doesn't even have forums for GW. There simply isn't enough demand for them.
You should check out some of the fansites. The Guild Hall (before our server switch in the last couple of days) was easily receiving a couple hundred new posts each day in the forums. I can also tell you that interest in the game is picking up at a very rapid rate (that's why we had to change servers). How rapid? More than 10 times the amount of traffic in April compared to January.
WoW has a lot of hype and history to support it. It has a pre-existing Blizzard/WarCraft fanbase to draw from. The game had a huge fanbase from the day it was announced. ArenaNet/Guild Wars on the other hand ... hasn't been known about for as long, doesn't have a pre-existing fanbase to draw from and ArenaNet only became serious about marketing the game in January this year when they started releasing screens of the new graphics. GW is holding up *very* well.
Originally posted by Crowen PS: to Gnarled who thinks these game companies need your monthly subscription in order to maintain servers Funcom released a news posting that stats that monthly subcriptions are revenue....
WTF are you talking about ? That article supports my argument about the necessity for a dependable revenue stream, ie a monthly fee. Ergo, GW will need to make the expansions virtually indispensable to players in order to maintain revenue. You are really pissing me off with your complete inability to see the other side of the argument. Revenue is NOT profit, revenue is what you need to run your business, and secure investments. Try cracking open a marketing book before you open your mouth.
"I can tell you with no ego, this is my finest sword. If, on your journey, you should encounter God. . . . . . God will be cut." - Quentin Tarantino, Kill Bill
HAHA he does this because he has nothing of value to offer to the debate. My guess is he is just trying to up his post numbers or just likes to waste peoples time.
Funny, i was in a way sticking up for you. I thought that the argument was about to turn into something that it shouldn't. And grammar being beside the point of the debate.
My guess is, Gnarled's made you look so bad, that now your trying to take it out on others. And maybe just maybe, by replying to my post you were trying to up your post count or you just hate being wrong all the time. Will anyway +2 for me, since you see it that way?
And Gnarled i wasn't judging, but like i said i thought grammar was beside the point. sorry
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ War Doesn't Determine Who's Right, War Determines Who's Left. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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WTF are you talking about ? That article supports my argument about the necessity for a dependable revenue stream, ie a monthly fee. Ergo, GW will need to make the expansions virtually indispensable to players in order to maintain revenue. You are really pissing me off with your complete inability to see the other side of the argument. Revenue is NOT profit, revenue is what you need to run your business, and secure investments. Try cracking open a marketing book before you open your mouth.
Revenue is profit! Revenue is income! Revenue is taxable! You might want to close a marketing book which is for marketing and accually try to open an accounting book. I accually do accounting and revenue is profit. The article clearly stats that to secure investments and to make there investors money they use a monthly subscription revenue model to insure profit. Any busniess model that would be showen to a board of investors would also show expences and how those would be covered. Revenue is not what you use to run your business its what you use to pay investors. Revenue is profit after expences.
Don't know if you live in the US or not as I don't but there tax collection company is called the IRS. Now I could be wrong but I think it stands for the Internal Revenue Service. And since they collect taxes on revenue and expences are not taxable wouldn't that mean tax on profit? I might be off here like I said I don't live in the US.
Webster's Dictionary:
Revenue : income, of a state or institution; receipts; profits.
I do however want to make it clear that I see the other side of it and that I do see how you might think that they will try to make up for the monthly fee by other means. I just don't agree that its NEEDED revenue to keep a project running. Sony made alot of people believe that the fee is a must have to even keep the servers running. But the fact that SoE has been able to fund the release of several MMoRPG's and offline games with the revenue from EQ's monthly fees might be a hint that its accually profit. I do see your side but can you see mine? These games make enough money off the sales of expantion packs and the original release to keep things going.
There was a business model released for DAoC before it even released showing to break even they would have to sell 10,000 copies and use the monthly fees from 2 months just to break even. However they sold 100,000 copies the first month. This was already profit for them and from there they have only sold more copies plus 2 expantion packs now with a 3rd comming up. Stack that up with the 12.95 a month from what has been said is close to 400,000 active accounts and you have revenue out the Yahoo. MMoRPG's make big money why else would blizzard drop production of more free to play for a MMoRPG? Diablo I and II were huge why not just make III instead of a MMoRPG because thats where the biggest money is.
Funny, i was in a way sticking up for you. I thought that the argument was about to turn into something that it shouldn't. And grammar being beside the point of the debate. My guess is, Gnarled's made you look so bad, that now your trying to take it out on others. And maybe just maybe, by replying to my post you were trying to up your post count or you just hate being wrong all the time. Will anyway +2 for me, since you see it that way? And Gnarled i wasn't judging, but like i said i thought grammar was beside the point. sorry
And if you read what I was trying to say I was agreeing with you. And if I am wrong about something I am the first to state I am. There is never shame in being wrong as long as you learn from your mistakes. As for being wrong in this thread no one is wrong here as its all opinions no one here can know for sure that WoW or GW will be better than the other since niether is out yet. Not to mention no one can be wrong all the time even you (though you are here). And some people have been able to prove me wrong here and there however Gnarled is not one of them at least not yet. He is entitled to his opinion as we all are. I even respect his opinion which would probably be a shock to him. I can even see how he can be skeptical however I believe monthly subscriptions are not a must to keep a MMoRPG running. I just want to see his opinion backed with facts.
Grammar is not the point of a MMoRPG forum. I am the first to admit my grammar at times is not the best but then mathematics is my strength.
But if you think I am always wrong your more than welcome to prove this by showing me how everything I have ever said was wrong by giving examples and back it up with facts. And if your right then I would be happy to admit it. If your wrong I hope your man enough to as well.
PS Since you bring grammar back its Well not Will see I am not the only one that makes mistakes.. Maybe don't judge me either.
No I don't live in the US, I live in Canada, where I in fact manage commercial high-rises for the real estate arm of the largest pension fund in the country. And no-one in business equates revenue directly with profit. It is only synonymous in the loosest dictionary sense of the word, or in a business where costs are uncontrolled or negligible. That does not apply here.
The strength of your argument rests on the makers of GW, as a business, not wanting to maximize profits. Who in the hell does that ?
"I can tell you with no ego, this is my finest sword. If, on your journey, you should encounter God. . . . . . God will be cut." - Quentin Tarantino, Kill Bill
Originally posted by Crowen PS Since you bring grammar back its Well not Will see I am not the only one that makes mistakes.. Maybe don't judge me either.
That all sounded nice until you got to ^ that part. The point of my post in the beginning was to point out, theres no reason for this to turn into a grammar war. I've seen it happen so many times, exampe: "It's you're not your, you retard OMGLOL LOL LOL, you can't spell, n00b, what a loser, you freaking suxxors" Whatever the logic is behind it. It was pointless, and besides the point.
I never once said, grammar is a big deal, and that your grammar was terrible did I? So when you correct my grammar your really not making since, because you said your not really big on grammar and you agreed grammar is beside the point? But then you go and correct me, as if it was a big deal? As if i had a problem with it? I just wanted to point out your wrong for that.
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Originally posted by Gnarled The strength of your argument rests on the makers of GW, as a business, not wanting to maximize profits. Who in the hell does that ?
With this I agree with you I don't know many companies that don't want to make the most money they can as fast a possible. And I to wonder how this will all work out. But I am willing to give them the chance to stand up to there words. I don't know how they plan to make there millions with this game and maybe they don't plan too. I also live in Canada and some companies like A&B sound sell there music below cost to get people in to make money in other places. We will all just have to wait and see what they do.
Blizzard went the safe road with the usual setup and just stole all the best from whats out to make WoW. I think this was a great idea and they will do very well. I hope they even take most of EQ's base as I think SoE has not had an original idea in years. But thats a topic for a whole new thread.
My thinking here is that they plan to make a million not a billion on this game. I think they can make alot of money with the setup as is. I also think that they plan to cut server load and bandwidth by using clients to run the dungeons after you leave the city. This would be sort of the same thing Bizzard did with Diablo II. But there exact plans only they know.
That all sounded nice until you got to ^ that part. The point of my post in the beginning was to point out, theres no reason for this to turn into a grammar war.
Your right grammar is no part of it and I went to far at the end of my post. It didn't put the point I was trying to make accross and came out wrong after I read it again I see that too.
WOW is has more options i think, like there is more stuff to do in WOW. Guild War to me just seems like Fighting and leveling up like its a big Compitition. Though Guils wars does look like a pretty good game. And im probaply going to get it because its FREE! (monthly that is)
At first i thought WoW would be stupid, but now that ive looked at it a bit closer i think that it would be alright maybe even kick ass, but i also think that guild wars has many components that overthrow what WoW has to offer. Just a few things that have caught my eye is the fact that there is no monthly fee, and being 13 and having no job this gives guild wars a big plus, there also the fact that i wont have to train my ass off to start having fun,(according to their website) theres no kill stealing, no waiting in line for a quest, and a few other things too. I would like to play the role of a beast like in WoW, but it looks like to me that guild wars is over all the better game and will be the first one i am to check out.
If you want to find out more check out their site http://www.guildwars.net/. I can't wait until it comes out, it sounds like fun. No monthly fees too. Everybody will have a chance to test it out themselves on may 12 to 14 while the E3 event is on, check that out on their webpage too. Not sure if you already know about that, just providing abit of info for you.
GW will have one realm that everyone logs into, D2 does not (nor any previous mmo for that matter). GW will have public persistent locations such as towns and outposts. D2 does not.
Not a great comparison dude. I'm not entirely sure if I'd call GW a mmorpg, though it DOES have certain mmo qualities. I think that's basically what it is at its core, while breaking from tradition and doing several things differently. But to say its the same as D2 is simply ignorant.
The number of realms is not really important if you can not interact with a large number of people. In any true MMORPG you can see large gatherings (200+ easy) in small areas but I really don't see this happening in GW. In EQ you could go to quite a few zones and see 100 to 200 people on any given day or in DAoC you have your 200+ person large scale pvp encounters.
My point is that GW will follow the D2 way of people making thier own small game instances with a select few number of people. Thier persistent towns or outposts will fall into the equivalant of a chatroom with some the abilities to pick up tasks which would then allow you to go make your instance. That is why I draw the comparison to D2.
Of course in a few weeks we will all get to see exactly how the game plays out and it will be interesting to see I must say.
We now have a tough question to answer: what is a MMORPG, Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game. In the question if GW is a MMORPG here's the two questions you need to ask does GW allow multiplayers online answer: yes, second question is GW a RPG answer: well as I see role playing is playing a role so yes. So if you look at the facts Guild wars is a MMORPG.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
Myself I am watching both WOW & GW. From what I have seen about WOW I know I am going to get WOW, I just hope they have a open beta. Since I have only found out about GW recently I can make a opinion on it however if everything goes well for the demo I will have a decision to make.
Originally posted by colombdawg Let me vary it down for all of you because I think it'll be easier to understand
WoW: 15 bucks a month
GW: Free
Okay I'm done...lol
You: Wrong.
Now I'm done. "lol".
"I can tell you with no ego, this is my finest sword. If, on your journey, you should encounter God. . . . . . God will be cut." - Quentin Tarantino, Kill Bill
hi, guild wars or wow, if theres open beta in wow ill try it and see, as for the expansions for guild wars costing 40 to 50 $ , look at the games out now, they charge 50 for game then a monthly fee, then 30$ for expansion packs so looks like in the long run you would prolly save money with guild wars, im betting there expansion packs will be more around the 30$ mark others charge. just my thinking.
Comments
You should check out some of the fansites. The Guild Hall (before our server switch in the last couple of days) was easily receiving a couple hundred new posts each day in the forums. I can also tell you that interest in the game is picking up at a very rapid rate (that's why we had to change servers). How rapid? More than 10 times the amount of traffic in April compared to January.
WoW has a lot of hype and history to support it. It has a pre-existing Blizzard/WarCraft fanbase to draw from. The game had a huge fanbase from the day it was announced. ArenaNet/Guild Wars on the other hand ... hasn't been known about for as long, doesn't have a pre-existing fanbase to draw from and ArenaNet only became serious about marketing the game in January this year when they started releasing screens of the new graphics. GW is holding up *very* well.
WTF are you talking about ? That article supports my argument about the necessity for a dependable revenue stream, ie a monthly fee. Ergo, GW will need to make the expansions virtually indispensable to players in order to maintain revenue. You are really pissing me off with your complete inability to see the other side of the argument. Revenue is NOT profit, revenue is what you need to run your business, and secure investments. Try cracking open a marketing book before you open your mouth.
"I can tell you with no ego, this is my finest sword. If, on your journey, you should encounter God. . .
. . . God will be cut."
- Quentin Tarantino, Kill Bill
EQII
Requiiem, Templar
Neriak
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War Doesn't Determine Who's Right, War Determines Who's Left.
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War Doesn't Determine Who's Right, War Determines Who's Left.
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Revenue is profit! Revenue is income! Revenue is taxable! You might want to close a marketing book which is for marketing and accually try to open an accounting book. I accually do accounting and revenue is profit. The article clearly stats that to secure investments and to make there investors money they use a monthly subscription revenue model to insure profit. Any busniess model that would be showen to a board of investors would also show expences and how those would be covered. Revenue is not what you use to run your business its what you use to pay investors. Revenue is profit after expences.
Don't know if you live in the US or not as I don't but there tax collection company is called the IRS. Now I could be wrong but I think it stands for the Internal Revenue Service. And since they collect taxes on revenue and expences are not taxable wouldn't that mean tax on profit? I might be off here like I said I don't live in the US.
Webster's Dictionary:
Revenue : income, of a state or institution; receipts; profits.
I do however want to make it clear that I see the other side of it and that I do see how you might think that they will try to make up for the monthly fee by other means. I just don't agree that its NEEDED revenue to keep a project running. Sony made alot of people believe that the fee is a must have to even keep the servers running. But the fact that SoE has been able to fund the release of several MMoRPG's and offline games with the revenue from EQ's monthly fees might be a hint that its accually profit. I do see your side but can you see mine? These games make enough money off the sales of expantion packs and the original release to keep things going.
There was a business model released for DAoC before it even released showing to break even they would have to sell 10,000 copies and use the monthly fees from 2 months just to break even. However they sold 100,000 copies the first month. This was already profit for them and from there they have only sold more copies plus 2 expantion packs now with a 3rd comming up. Stack that up with the 12.95 a month from what has been said is close to 400,000 active accounts and you have revenue out the Yahoo. MMoRPG's make big money why else would blizzard drop production of more free to play for a MMoRPG? Diablo I and II were huge why not just make III instead of a MMoRPG because thats where the biggest money is.
And if you read what I was trying to say I was agreeing with you. And if I am wrong about something I am the first to state I am. There is never shame in being wrong as long as you learn from your mistakes. As for being wrong in this thread no one is wrong here as its all opinions no one here can know for sure that WoW or GW will be better than the other since niether is out yet. Not to mention no one can be wrong all the time even you (though you are here). And some people have been able to prove me wrong here and there however Gnarled is not one of them at least not yet. He is entitled to his opinion as we all are. I even respect his opinion which would probably be a shock to him. I can even see how he can be skeptical however I believe monthly subscriptions are not a must to keep a MMoRPG running. I just want to see his opinion backed with facts.
Grammar is not the point of a MMoRPG forum. I am the first to admit my grammar at times is not the best but then mathematics is my strength.
But if you think I am always wrong your more than welcome to prove this by showing me how everything I have ever said was wrong by giving examples and back it up with facts. And if your right then I would be happy to admit it. If your wrong I hope your man enough to as well.
PS Since you bring grammar back its Well not Will see I am not the only one that makes mistakes.. Maybe don't judge me either.
No I don't live in the US, I live in Canada, where I in fact manage commercial high-rises for the real estate arm of the largest pension fund in the country. And no-one in business equates revenue directly with profit. It is only synonymous in the loosest dictionary sense of the word, or in a business where costs are uncontrolled or negligible. That does not apply here.
The strength of your argument rests on the makers of GW, as a business, not wanting to maximize profits. Who in the hell does that ?
"I can tell you with no ego, this is my finest sword. If, on your journey, you should encounter God. . .
. . . God will be cut."
- Quentin Tarantino, Kill Bill
EQII
Requiiem, Templar
Neriak
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War Doesn't Determine Who's Right, War Determines Who's Left.
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War Doesn't Determine Who's Right, War Determines Who's Left.
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With this I agree with you I don't know many companies that don't want to make the most money they can as fast a possible. And I to wonder how this will all work out. But I am willing to give them the chance to stand up to there words. I don't know how they plan to make there millions with this game and maybe they don't plan too. I also live in Canada and some companies like A&B sound sell there music below cost to get people in to make money in other places. We will all just have to wait and see what they do.
Blizzard went the safe road with the usual setup and just stole all the best from whats out to make WoW. I think this was a great idea and they will do very well. I hope they even take most of EQ's base as I think SoE has not had an original idea in years. But thats a topic for a whole new thread.
My thinking here is that they plan to make a million not a billion on this game. I think they can make alot of money with the setup as is. I also think that they plan to cut server load and bandwidth by using clients to run the dungeons after you leave the city. This would be sort of the same thing Bizzard did with Diablo II. But there exact plans only they know.
Your right grammar is no part of it and I went to far at the end of my post. It didn't put the point I was trying to make accross and came out wrong after I read it again I see that too.
Was just trying to say no one is perfect.
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War Doesn't Determine Who's Right, War Determines Who's Left.
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War Doesn't Determine Who's Right, War Determines Who's Left.
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Let me vary it down for all of you because I think it'll be easier to understand
WoW: 15 bucks a month
GW: Free
Okay I'm done...lol
At first i thought WoW would be stupid, but now that ive looked at it a bit closer i think that it would be alright maybe even kick ass, but i also think that guild wars has many components that overthrow what WoW has to offer. Just a few things that have caught my eye is the fact that there is no monthly fee, and being 13 and having no job this gives guild wars a big plus, there also the fact that i wont have to train my ass off to start having fun,(according to their website) theres no kill stealing, no waiting in line for a quest, and a few other things too. I would like to play the role of a beast like in WoW, but it looks like to me that guild wars is over all the better game and will be the first one i am to check out.
WoW: A MMORPG
Guild Wars: Not a MMORPG
See the problem with comparing the two?
how is guild wars not an mmorpg?
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Happy! Happy! Joy! Joy!
Well I suppose if you consider D2 a MMORPG then so would Guild Wars but personally I consider neither a MMORPG.
GW will have one realm that everyone logs into, D2 does not (nor any previous mmo for that matter). GW will have public persistent locations such as towns and outposts. D2 does not.
Not a great comparison dude. I'm not entirely sure if I'd call GW a mmorpg, though it DOES have certain mmo qualities. I think that's basically what it is at its core, while breaking from tradition and doing several things differently. But to say its the same as D2 is simply ignorant.
The Obsidian Kings
The number of realms is not really important if you can not interact with a large number of people. In any true MMORPG you can see large gatherings (200+ easy) in small areas but I really don't see this happening in GW. In EQ you could go to quite a few zones and see 100 to 200 people on any given day or in DAoC you have your 200+ person large scale pvp encounters.
My point is that GW will follow the D2 way of people making thier own small game instances with a select few number of people. Thier persistent towns or outposts will fall into the equivalant of a chatroom with some the abilities to pick up tasks which would then allow you to go make your instance. That is why I draw the comparison to D2.
Of course in a few weeks we will all get to see exactly how the game plays out and it will be interesting to see I must say.
We now have a tough question to answer: what is a MMORPG, Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game. In the question if GW is a MMORPG here's the two questions you need to ask does GW allow multiplayers online answer: yes, second question is GW a RPG answer: well as I see role playing is playing a role so yes. So if you look at the facts Guild wars is a MMORPG.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
Myself I am watching both WOW & GW. From what I have seen about WOW I know I am going to get WOW, I just hope they have a open beta. Since I have only found out about GW recently I can make a opinion on it however if everything goes well for the demo I will have a decision to make.
Later,
Birdeye
You: Wrong.
Now I'm done. "lol".
"I can tell you with no ego, this is my finest sword. If, on your journey, you should encounter God. . .
. . . God will be cut."
- Quentin Tarantino, Kill Bill
EQII
Requiiem, Templar
Neriak
hi, guild wars or wow, if theres open beta in wow ill try it and see, as for the expansions for guild wars costing 40 to 50 $ , look at the games out now, they charge 50 for game then a monthly fee, then 30$ for expansion packs so looks like in the long run you would prolly save money with guild wars, im betting there expansion packs will be more around the 30$ mark others charge. just my thinking.
The main criteria for a MMORPG is massive and persistent.
Will you have great battles with 100+ participants? Will the whole world state be persistent?
As far as my limited knowledge goes, both are NO... But feel free to enlighten me
WoW and GW do not compete IMHO.