I was one of the GMs that Trag err Geiddian is speaking of. I stopped working for them when I started having problems with my eyes, and disagreed with the direction some of the game mechanics were taking, so if anything I might have an axe to grind. Melissa was the person who let me go.
You need to know that the people in the upper management of the Gemstone game (some of which Trag is slandering here) are very dedicated and creative people. I'm 44 years old, and I run a team of Engineers in my real job, so I have a decent amount of experience with what it takes to lead people, and get things done, and I'd work for Melissa again in a moment. The crap that was written about the upper management is written by someone with an axe to grind. The worst part of the posts are they are plainly incorrect. He has his names wrong, as well as dates, and actions.
I would accept his comments on the inner workings of Simutronics with a VERY big grain of salt.
As for Hero's Journey, their engine was demoed at the last Simucon that I attended and it was very clean and very interesting. The team that they pulled together included some of the best GMs of their text games for mechanics and roleplaying aspects. I don't know if HJ is indeed vaporware as I no longer have any connection with Simutronics at all, but I do hope that the people working the development manage to put out a game that do their text based games justice.
And Trag, if you are going to talk crap about someone, specifically about someone I consider a friend, then at the very least try to make sure some of it is true.
And just think, a couple days ago, I was watching a political program and wondering how you were doing.
It's funny to read scandals and crap about people you don't know, but not very funny to read how it can (and probably did) turn out bad...
The sad thing is that it takes this kind of crap talk to get former and current(?) simutronics employees talk about the the HJ game.
It is a sad fact that the "silence" surrounding the game is worrying, and to hear that its still under development and perhaps will see a releaseday is comforting. But to hear it in a context of crap(?)talk is scary.
If the Simutronic people (former and current) didn't care about the HJ fanbase, they wouldn't care about the craptalk they did deny and corrected above, but still.. If they really cared they would inform the fanbase about the progress of the game in a rate that didn't keep it a the vapourware status among the fans.
Lets hope Simutronics can and will get out in public more often and not only when someone shait on their desk...
__________________________ Reality is for people who lack imagination
I am just guessing, but I expect that Simutronics people that responded did so because someone was making some wild (and false) accusations about people they have worked with for a very long time and consider friends.
Geiddian will be lucky if he isn't sued for slander and defimation of character. Regardless if what he said is true or not, and obviously it isn't, there is just no reason for that information to be put out in the public this way. That's a lawsuit, or five, waiting to happen.
Just because it's on a message board, doesn't mean they can't track you down for libel.
At any rate.... I, too, am quite worried about the lack of game information being presented. I try to keep an open mind and positive outlook. I am trying to focus on a game I've played for 2-3 years now (FFXI) and really trying to not start any new games. I just know if I switch to something else, they'll announce beta for HJ. I've been waiting for this project for quite a while and I can only hope that somebody in the Simutronics camp still cares about me as an avid player of their games and fan of their imaginative work.
Please try to understand that Simutronics has a reputation as a company with poor weight being their promices. There may be good reasons, I'm sure, but if you want to compete with the big dogs, you have to do things. Things that to you, may be spectacular, but to other companies is just another day of work. You don't see most of the big companies with as poor of a reputation as Simutronics. Simutronics has an unsurpassed reputation with quality and attention to detail... They also have an unsurpassed reputation with regards to promice keeping and keeping their players in some sort of loop... One is just on the other side of the scale than the other.
Yeah, yeah. I got a few things wrong and you didn't answer any of the questions posed by me or others about the game itself. That's telling, don't you think?
Supposedly I have been on the beta list for about a year now. I keep hoping to see some progress from the game, because like many others on this thread, this is the only game I am waiting for. The lack of current information is disturbing to say the least. I havent heard anything real about the game for months, and the only thing that brings HJ people to the boards is a personal attack, and then the only response is to defend themselves? What about the game? What about the piracy and completely unfair teired pricing?
I used to play DR, and loved the game. I have been waiting years for a graphical MMO that has some real substance. I keep hoping that eventually a real "RPers" game will make it to market. I was in on the beta testing for Wish, and loved the concept. HJ promises a lot of things that Wish tried to incorporate. However it is very disconcerting to be left in the dark by a company that has the only promising game.
The personal attacks, founded or not, are only one part of the arguments being made here. Are the people waiting for a real RP MMO going to be raped by teired pricing? Will Simu promote bots and farmers and third party con artists? Will I be expected to pay MY real money just to be able to compete with everyone else in a GAME? Will this game every see the light of day? What is the real hangup? Like say I supposedly received a beta slot, although Simu hasnt bother to confirm it. When are we going to get more then a nice puff of hot air on the back side?
Funny how Ged played dragonrealms in 1994 when it wasn't even released until '96 and was never available on GEine since gemstone was moved to AOL in 1995.
That said, Simu has always been like this, anyone that has played any of their games for an extended period of time knows they're tight-lipped. You'd also know that they deliver what they say they're going to and it's of the highest quality when it's done.
Funny how Ged played dragonrealms in 1994 when it wasn't even released until '96 and was never available on GEine since gemstone was moved to AOL in 1995. That said, Simu has always been like this, anyone that has played any of their games for an extended period of time knows they're tight-lipped. You'd also know that they deliver what they say they're going to and it's of the highest quality when it's done.
Actually, you’re a bit off as well Xaylin. I’m just niggling the details here though and agree with the spirit of your post, if I perceived it correctly. Geiddian didn’t just ‘get a few things wrong’, but other responses have pretty well cleared that up I think.
Everyone who has been around Simutronics a while and is able to pick up on subtle clues and read between the lines knows the uber well-kept secret that Eric Slick doesn’t really exist and is just another disguise worn by Bubba who is really just yet another disguise of his true identity as a time-traveling ancient king from around 1000 BC. You think we wouldn’t have figured it out from your Simu forums handle Bubba? Ha!
Why do you think David Whatley has been harboring him all these years? It’s because he’s RICH! Bubba/King Solomon, that is! Big time rich! That’s the real funding power behind Simutronics, but they have to be really careful about it. I mean…come on; we’re talking about tons and tons of treasure here! There was a movie (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0076270/) about it for crying out loud!
Uh…ahem.
Stop reading here if you’re not interested in brief historical details and other stuff.
Gemstone never ‘moved’ to AOL, it just became available on AOL. DragonRealms was available on GEnie first while still in Beta, and later AOL staffers were allowed in as ‘closed beta’ testers before the rest of AOL and other services were given access. Then the game was launched live. I can’t recall how much longer it was available on GEnie after that because that is when I finally cancelled my account there and starting using AOL full time until the Simu move to play.net. My recollection is that both Gemstone and DragonRealms were available there almost right up to the bitter end before the lights finally went out on GEnie.
Most of the folks who showed up to tell Geddian that he didn't know what he was talking about are no longer associated with Simutronics. Simu-Solomon was the only responder that I can remember that is still tied into the game.
Now, why doesn't Simu come to this board and discuss what is happening with their product?
Don't know, but I do know that if I were waiting anxiously for the release, I would do what I could to visit the Simutronics bulletin board dedicated to HJ. I wouldn't be trying to get my information from soem third party site (even as good a third party site as this one). I've seen posts by Altiron in the other folder in this area speaking of his plans, and it is good that he is still hooked into the project.
Just be careful listening to people with an axe to grind, they tend to remember things oddly, and make things up to support the point they want to make.
The personal attacks, founded or not, are only one part of the arguments being made here. Are the people waiting for a real RP MMO going to be raped by teired pricing? Will Simu promote bots and farmers and third party con artists? Will I be expected to pay MY real money just to be able to compete with everyone else in a GAME? Will this game every see the light of day? What is the real hangup? Like say I supposedly received a beta slot, although Simu hasnt bother to confirm it. When are we going to get more then a nice puff of hot air on the back side?
Thought it would be fun to respond to this.. Maybe give you guys a different view.
1) Are the people waiting for a RP MMO going to be raped by tiered pricing?
I played and GMed in the Gemstone game that Simutronics offers. It was a small game by MMO standards and I would hazard a guess that the number of accounts is very much less than at the time EQ, or any of the widely popular MMOs. The support for this game far outshined any graphical game I've ever played. I'd bet that player to GM ratio was at least ten times better than any other game out there. The company needed to find ways to raise operating cash at some level (remember as much as anyone hates to admit it, if there is no profit being made, the game will not exist long), and one of the things they did was to set up a multiple tiered pricing system. I think it was one of the first such systems in the industry. Some people hated it, and some people loved it.
It allowed the company to charge for things that were nice to haves, not absolutely essentials. For the entire time I played, and the tiered pricing system was in effect, people who were paying basic complained about things that they didn't get, while people paying the extra complained that they didn't get enough. That in itself tells me that Simu balanced it pretty well, and nothing stopped people from paying the other rate if they truly felt that they were cheated at the rate they were paying. (It may have changed since, but I hope not) when I was involved there was truly very little difference between the basic and the premium. There were no unique hunting areas, or incredibly powerful weaponry etc.. Most of the special events were geared to develop fluff, and things that could personalize a character.
The other option would have been to set a single price probably somewhere in the middle of the two, which certainly takes care of the tiered pricing, but doesn't give a person the option to just pay less for the basic rate.
They also had special pay events where anyone could go and various thing swere done. These events took a large amount of effort to plan and develop, and the company tried to cover the development costs with the pay event sticker.. Again the player could choose whether to attend or not to attend.
Tiered pricing was not the evil thing that people are making it sound like.
2) Will Simu promote Bots and farmers and third party con artists?
Funny thing about that, people are stupid. Let me rephrase that.. People are VERY stupid. I can't tell you how many times that I was summoned as a GM by someone who bought a 'mystery backpack' that was 'guarenteed' to hold at least 1000 silvers worth of equipment only to find it empty. Even after we posted specifically that anyone buying something like that was on their own people still bought the things. And the GMs were accused of being uncaring, and supporting con artists. By the way, one of the small pleasures I had as a GM was hunting down those con artists, and explaining to them why I was locking them out.
In terms of Bots, when I was GM, Simutronics aggressively persued people scripting through areas. The players complained alot about how we ignored them, but there were always problems proving someone was scripting. Krash, and Khaledon were very good at chasing these folks down, but they couldn't be on 24/7, and even with the coverage we did have, it was almost impossible to police the no scripting policy. More than one player lost significant amounts of EXP when they were caught.
Farming was possible in Gemstone because there was no limit on the treasure drops on creatures below your level, and I would hope that would be taken in to account in the design of Hero's Journey.
3) Will I be expected to pay my real money just to be able to compete with everyone else in a game?
Depends on what sort of events they choose, but as I said, if it is left to the player to decide what they want to pay for, how is this bad? After I stopped GMing, I kept my basic account for a couple years, and never once felt like I was missing anything. I did find it humorous to read posts on the boards by people bemoaning how they felt cheated by not being able to attend a merchant event, turn around the next week and sell all kinds of merchant loot at seriously marked up prices. Or when I was a GM, I'd alter a piece of equipment for someone only to watch them leave my shop and run out trying to sell the item for silvers.
If you are racing to the end, or trying to be 'King of power' then I guess I can't help you. but I will tell you that I would rather you pay for the extra equipment that you think you need rather than raise my price for something that I don't particularly care for.
4) The rest..
Don't know if it will see the light of day as I haven't seriously looked for it in quite a while now, but if I were really looking for it, I'd haunt the Simu board and not this one. By the way, before you call me a Fanboi for Simutronics, I got in a decent amount of troubles on their bulletin board system for expressing exactly what I thought. I hold no love for the company, I do however hate to see things blown way out of proportion, or good people insulted for no reason.
6: Eating the dog's and/or cat's wet & dry food? The World wants to know...
Hehe, just trust that it is something really really gooood...aw crud, who am I kidding. I've got a toddler at home and another one on the way, I'm not <insert verb here> anything anymore. I think Bubba knows I was just goofing off.
If you have never played Gemstone3/DragonRealms or any of the other 4 games they develop then don't disrespect Simutronics commitment to gaming. Trust me when I say "Gemstone4" complexity and gameplay is 100 times far better than Newb games like WorldOfWarcraft. The only game's that came close to GS4/DR was EQ and AsheronCall.
Because the gameplay and charachter complexity is easier to establish in a MUD it will require even more effort to replicate it for an MMORPG game. If Hero's Journey is even half as complex as GS4/DR MUD game was then this MMORPG will blow all the other games outa the water!!!
Look at all the chump MMORPG games coming out in 2007, 'pirates of the carribean', 'LOTR', etc.... NONE OF THESE games will have an impact to the MMORPG genre. When HJ comes out, it'll become the next EQ that everyone's been waiting for! So if it comes out in 2008, I bet you its well worth the wait.
I'm rather disappointed you would post such unsubstantiated diatribe. I once held a much higher regard for you. Needless to say your insinuations of Melissa are totally unfounded and lacks any credibility.
Comments
And my name is Mike McInnis.
I was one of the GMs that Trag err Geiddian is speaking of. I stopped working for them when I started having problems with my eyes, and disagreed with the direction some of the game mechanics were taking, so if anything I might have an axe to grind. Melissa was the person who let me go.
You need to know that the people in the upper management of the Gemstone game (some of which Trag is slandering here) are very dedicated and creative people. I'm 44 years old, and I run a team of Engineers in my real job, so I have a decent amount of experience with what it takes to lead people, and get things done, and I'd work for Melissa again in a moment. The crap that was written about the upper management is written by someone with an axe to grind. The worst part of the posts are they are plainly incorrect. He has his names wrong, as well as dates, and actions.
I would accept his comments on the inner workings of Simutronics with a VERY big grain of salt.
As for Hero's Journey, their engine was demoed at the last Simucon that I attended and it was very clean and very interesting. The team that they pulled together included some of the best GMs of their text games for mechanics and roleplaying aspects. I don't know if HJ is indeed vaporware as I no longer have any connection with Simutronics at all, but I do hope that the people working the development manage to put out a game that do their text based games justice.
And Trag, if you are going to talk crap about someone, specifically about someone I consider a friend, then at the very least try to make sure some of it is true.
And just think, a couple days ago, I was watching a political program and wondering how you were doing.
Wish I hadn't found out.
Pin (The Bloody Clans)
Once
Misdy Meanor
Arma Geddon
Ughsplat Kobold-Squisher
GM Bhamma
All in Gemstone 3 and 4
In both good and bad ways...
It's funny to read scandals and crap about people you don't know, but not very funny to read how it can (and probably did) turn out bad...
The sad thing is that it takes this kind of crap talk to get former and current(?) simutronics employees talk about the the HJ game.
It is a sad fact that the "silence" surrounding the game is worrying, and to hear that its still under development and perhaps will see a releaseday is comforting. But to hear it in a context of crap(?)talk is scary.
If the Simutronic people (former and current) didn't care about the HJ fanbase, they wouldn't care about the craptalk they did deny and corrected above, but still.. If they really cared they would inform the fanbase about the progress of the game in a rate that didn't keep it a the vapourware status among the fans.
Lets hope Simutronics can and will get out in public more often and not only when someone shait on their desk...
__________________________
Reality is for people who lack imagination
I am just guessing, but I expect that Simutronics people that responded did so because someone was making some wild (and false) accusations about people they have worked with for a very long time and consider friends.
PinTBC
Just because it's on a message board, doesn't mean they can't track you down for libel.
At any rate.... I, too, am quite worried about the lack of game information being presented. I try to keep an open mind and positive outlook. I am trying to focus on a game I've played for 2-3 years now (FFXI) and really trying to not start any new games. I just know if I switch to something else, they'll announce beta for HJ. I've been waiting for this project for quite a while and I can only hope that somebody in the Simutronics camp still cares about me as an avid player of their games and fan of their imaginative work.
Please try to understand that Simutronics has a reputation as a company with poor weight being their promices. There may be good reasons, I'm sure, but if you want to compete with the big dogs, you have to do things. Things that to you, may be spectacular, but to other companies is just another day of work. You don't see most of the big companies with as poor of a reputation as Simutronics. Simutronics has an unsurpassed reputation with quality and attention to detail... They also have an unsurpassed reputation with regards to promice keeping and keeping their players in some sort of loop... One is just on the other side of the scale than the other.
Yeah, yeah. I got a few things wrong and you didn't answer any of the questions posed by me or others about the game itself. That's telling, don't you think?
So is that the only response we get from Simu?
Supposedly I have been on the beta list for about a year now. I keep hoping to see some progress from the game, because like many others on this thread, this is the only game I am waiting for. The lack of current information is disturbing to say the least. I havent heard anything real about the game for months, and the only thing that brings HJ people to the boards is a personal attack, and then the only response is to defend themselves? What about the game? What about the piracy and completely unfair teired pricing?
I used to play DR, and loved the game. I have been waiting years for a graphical MMO that has some real substance. I keep hoping that eventually a real "RPers" game will make it to market. I was in on the beta testing for Wish, and loved the concept. HJ promises a lot of things that Wish tried to incorporate. However it is very disconcerting to be left in the dark by a company that has the only promising game.
The personal attacks, founded or not, are only one part of the arguments being made here. Are the people waiting for a real RP MMO going to be raped by teired pricing? Will Simu promote bots and farmers and third party con artists? Will I be expected to pay MY real money just to be able to compete with everyone else in a GAME? Will this game every see the light of day? What is the real hangup? Like say I supposedly received a beta slot, although Simu hasnt bother to confirm it. When are we going to get more then a nice puff of hot air on the back side?
Funny how Ged played dragonrealms in 1994 when it wasn't even released until '96 and was never available on GEine since gemstone was moved to AOL in 1995.
That said, Simu has always been like this, anyone that has played any of their games for an extended period of time knows they're tight-lipped. You'd also know that they deliver what they say they're going to and it's of the highest quality when it's done.
Actually, you’re a bit off as well Xaylin. I’m just niggling the details here though and agree with the spirit of your post, if I perceived it correctly. Geiddian didn’t just ‘get a few things wrong’, but other responses have pretty well cleared that up I think.
Everyone who has been around Simutronics a while and is able to pick up on subtle clues and read between the lines knows the uber well-kept secret that Eric Slick doesn’t really exist and is just another disguise worn by Bubba who is really just yet another disguise of his true identity as a time-traveling ancient king from around 1000 BC. You think we wouldn’t have figured it out from your Simu forums handle Bubba? Ha!
Why do you think David Whatley has been harboring him all these years? It’s because he’s RICH! Bubba/King Solomon, that is! Big time rich! That’s the real funding power behind Simutronics, but they have to be really careful about it. I mean…come on; we’re talking about tons and tons of treasure here! There was a movie (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0076270/) about it for crying out loud!
Uh…ahem.
Stop reading here if you’re not interested in brief historical details and other stuff.
Gemstone never ‘moved’ to AOL, it just became available on AOL. DragonRealms was available on GEnie first while still in Beta, and later AOL staffers were allowed in as ‘closed beta’ testers before the rest of AOL and other services were given access. Then the game was launched live. I can’t recall how much longer it was available on GEnie after that because that is when I finally cancelled my account there and starting using AOL full time until the Simu move to play.net. My recollection is that both Gemstone and DragonRealms were available there almost right up to the bitter end before the lights finally went out on GEnie.
What in God's Name are you:
1: Smoking
2: Drinking
3: Snorting
4: Popping
5: Injecting, or:
6: Eating the dog's and/or cat's wet & dry food?
The World wants to know...
-- The Maxx
Hey, his theories make more sense than some of these other things that have been said.
The thing is this:
Most of the folks who showed up to tell Geddian that he didn't know what he was talking about are no longer associated with Simutronics. Simu-Solomon was the only responder that I can remember that is still tied into the game.
Now, why doesn't Simu come to this board and discuss what is happening with their product?
Don't know, but I do know that if I were waiting anxiously for the release, I would do what I could to visit the Simutronics bulletin board dedicated to HJ. I wouldn't be trying to get my information from soem third party site (even as good a third party site as this one). I've seen posts by Altiron in the other folder in this area speaking of his plans, and it is good that he is still hooked into the project.
Just be careful listening to people with an axe to grind, they tend to remember things oddly, and make things up to support the point they want to make.
PinTBC
Thought it would be fun to respond to this.. Maybe give you guys a different view.
1) Are the people waiting for a RP MMO going to be raped by tiered pricing?
I played and GMed in the Gemstone game that Simutronics offers. It was a small game by MMO standards and I would hazard a guess that the number of accounts is very much less than at the time EQ, or any of the widely popular MMOs. The support for this game far outshined any graphical game I've ever played. I'd bet that player to GM ratio was at least ten times better than any other game out there. The company needed to find ways to raise operating cash at some level (remember as much as anyone hates to admit it, if there is no profit being made, the game will not exist long), and one of the things they did was to set up a multiple tiered pricing system. I think it was one of the first such systems in the industry. Some people hated it, and some people loved it.
It allowed the company to charge for things that were nice to haves, not absolutely essentials. For the entire time I played, and the tiered pricing system was in effect, people who were paying basic complained about things that they didn't get, while people paying the extra complained that they didn't get enough. That in itself tells me that Simu balanced it pretty well, and nothing stopped people from paying the other rate if they truly felt that they were cheated at the rate they were paying. (It may have changed since, but I hope not) when I was involved there was truly very little difference between the basic and the premium. There were no unique hunting areas, or incredibly powerful weaponry etc.. Most of the special events were geared to develop fluff, and things that could personalize a character.
The other option would have been to set a single price probably somewhere in the middle of the two, which certainly takes care of the tiered pricing, but doesn't give a person the option to just pay less for the basic rate.
They also had special pay events where anyone could go and various thing swere done. These events took a large amount of effort to plan and develop, and the company tried to cover the development costs with the pay event sticker.. Again the player could choose whether to attend or not to attend.
Tiered pricing was not the evil thing that people are making it sound like.
2) Will Simu promote Bots and farmers and third party con artists?
Funny thing about that, people are stupid. Let me rephrase that.. People are VERY stupid. I can't tell you how many times that I was summoned as a GM by someone who bought a 'mystery backpack' that was 'guarenteed' to hold at least 1000 silvers worth of equipment only to find it empty. Even after we posted specifically that anyone buying something like that was on their own people still bought the things. And the GMs were accused of being uncaring, and supporting con artists. By the way, one of the small pleasures I had as a GM was hunting down those con artists, and explaining to them why I was locking them out.
In terms of Bots, when I was GM, Simutronics aggressively persued people scripting through areas. The players complained alot about how we ignored them, but there were always problems proving someone was scripting. Krash, and Khaledon were very good at chasing these folks down, but they couldn't be on 24/7, and even with the coverage we did have, it was almost impossible to police the no scripting policy. More than one player lost significant amounts of EXP when they were caught.
Farming was possible in Gemstone because there was no limit on the treasure drops on creatures below your level, and I would hope that would be taken in to account in the design of Hero's Journey.
3) Will I be expected to pay my real money just to be able to compete with everyone else in a game?
Depends on what sort of events they choose, but as I said, if it is left to the player to decide what they want to pay for, how is this bad? After I stopped GMing, I kept my basic account for a couple years, and never once felt like I was missing anything. I did find it humorous to read posts on the boards by people bemoaning how they felt cheated by not being able to attend a merchant event, turn around the next week and sell all kinds of merchant loot at seriously marked up prices. Or when I was a GM, I'd alter a piece of equipment for someone only to watch them leave my shop and run out trying to sell the item for silvers.
If you are racing to the end, or trying to be 'King of power' then I guess I can't help you. but I will tell you that I would rather you pay for the extra equipment that you think you need rather than raise my price for something that I don't particularly care for.
4) The rest..
Don't know if it will see the light of day as I haven't seriously looked for it in quite a while now, but if I were really looking for it, I'd haunt the Simu board and not this one. By the way, before you call me a Fanboi for Simutronics, I got in a decent amount of troubles on their bulletin board system for expressing exactly what I thought. I hold no love for the company, I do however hate to see things blown way out of proportion, or good people insulted for no reason.
PinTBC
Because the gameplay and charachter complexity is easier to establish in a MUD it will require even more effort to replicate it for an MMORPG game. If Hero's Journey is even half as complex as GS4/DR MUD game was then this MMORPG will blow all the other games outa the water!!!
Look at all the chump MMORPG games coming out in 2007, 'pirates of the carribean', 'LOTR', etc.... NONE OF THESE games will have an impact to the MMORPG genre. When HJ comes out, it'll become the next EQ that everyone's been waiting for! So if it comes out in 2008, I bet you its well worth the wait.
Geiddian,
I'm rather disappointed you would post such unsubstantiated diatribe. I once held a much higher regard for you. Needless to say your insinuations of Melissa are totally unfounded and lacks any credibility.
formerly, Ophion
Just say, 'NO!'