I love it.. SOE is the GM of RPG games.. ha ha ha.. Isn't that the truth.. When SOE pulled Sigils finance butt out of the fire, I laughed.. WHY would SOE buy Vanguard? lmaooo In auto terms, Vanguard and EQ2 came off the same chasis assembly line but they only have different make up.. I beta tested Vanguard and quit after a month.. I had to FORCE myself to play, but within a month I just couldnt' handle all the lag, server crashes, forced grouping even for crafting resources.. The game was just a grind..
I for ONE and darn tired of the SOE , Smedley and McQuaid drama.. As I said in a different post.. It's the same lil kids fighting over a SMALL corner of the sandbox.. I've moved on and playing in the entire sandbox now, and the SOE gang can have their lil corner drama.. The biggest problem here is.. The drama queens of this fiasco have HUGE egos, and poor insight what the average gamer wants.. They refuse to listen to others and they do not take advice or criticism well..
I and the thousands of others that left SWG have several reasons to feel anger towards SOE. Here are a few reasons for those who might be unaware of just how dishonest SOE really is. Youve been warned... Folks tend to have short memories and some werent around for all the lies. So here's a list of lies SOE has told us.
.... (SNIP LONG LIST)
Sir, I doff my hat to you. Or in pre-CU SWG parlance, which I know you will understand:
/kowtow admriker4
You have hit every single nail pretty much right on the head.
For those who doubt Admriker4, I was there too... From 7/29/03 (1 month after launch) through 11/15/05 (the day NGE launched, which is the day I canceled). With the exception of his comments about his post-NGE trial, and his rumors at the end from the "source" -- both of which I believe, by the way -- I can confirm that I witnessed every single thing he described in his post, exactly as he described it. All the lies, the deception, the misdirection, the timeline of events... everything he describes, is 100% accurate.
And it's exactly why I have little faith that SOE will do a damn thing to actually improve Vanguard in any way the players right now would find acceptable. The endless pattern of SOE with SWG is the constant revamping of the game from whatever it is, right now, into some new version of the game that they think will somehow, magically, attract new players. If anything, Vanguard, with at best estimates maybe 1/3 of the playerbase SWG had at its height, is going to be more in the crosshairs for this -- they have got to be thinking of doing major revamps to try to attract more players. Their typical pattern with doing this is to "WOW it up", as a friend of mine from SWG likes to describe it.
Now, I am not saying WOW is a bad game. It's conceivable that Vanguard could well become objectively better as a game, if they "WOW it up." But that is not the point. The point is that Smed has already made the same exact lies about Vanguard that he made 2 or 3 times in open letters to the SWG community. "Learned form our mistakes," "Won't mess up again like we did," "Won't change the game dramatically like this again", etc... these are all things he has said before, and before now, every time he's said them, they have been bald-faced lies. To expect that suddenly, magically, now, this time, Smed is being truthful, is about as rational as SOE expecting that now, this time, when they revamp SWG yet again, suddenly all the millions of players they've never had but always wanted, will appear and subscribe.
Neither one of those things is gonna happen, people.
I and the thousands of others that left SWG have several reasons to feel anger towards SOE. Here are a few reasons for those who might be unaware of just how dishonest SOE really is. Youve been warned... Folks tend to have short memories and some werent around for all the lies. So here's a list of lies SOE has told us.
.... (SNIP LONG LIST)
Sir, I doff my hat to you. Or in pre-CU SWG parlance, which I know you will understand:
/kowtow admriker4
You have hit every single nail pretty much right on the head.
For those who doubt Admriker4, I was there too... From 7/29/03 (1 month after launch) through 11/15/05 (the day NGE launched, which is the day I canceled). With the exception of his comments about his post-NGE trial, and his rumors at the end from the "source" -- both of which I believe, by the way -- I can confirm that I witnessed every single thing he described in his post, exactly as he described it. All the lies, the deception, the misdirection, the timeline of events... everything he describes, is 100% accurate.
And it's exactly why I have little faith that SOE will do a damn thing to actually improve Vanguard in any way the players right now would find acceptable. The endless pattern of SOE with SWG is the constant revamping of the game from whatever it is, right now, into some new version of the game that they think will somehow, magically, attract new players. If anything, Vanguard, with at best estimates maybe 1/3 of the playerbase SWG had at its height, is going to be more in the crosshairs for this -- they have got to be thinking of doing major revamps to try to attract more players. Their typical pattern with doing this is to "WOW it up", as a friend of mine from SWG likes to describe it.
Now, I am not saying WOW is a bad game. It's conceivable that Vanguard could well become objectively better as a game, if they "WOW it up." But that is not the point. The point is that Smed has already made the same exact lies about Vanguard that he made 2 or 3 times in open letters to the SWG community. "Learned form our mistakes," "Won't mess up again like we did," "Won't change the game dramatically like this again", etc... these are all things he has said before, and before now, every time he's said them, they have been bald-faced lies. To expect that suddenly, magically, now, this time, Smed is being truthful, is about as rational as SOE expecting that now, this time, when they revamp SWG yet again, suddenly all the millions of players they've never had but always wanted, will appear and subscribe.
Neither one of those things is gonna happen, people.
C
Finally, someone that gets it. I guess you had to be there and live through it to truly appreciate the madness behind SOE's actions.
And thats why I post against SOE. So many who didnt experience SOE firsthand and what they are capable of actually believe Smedley when he states that he learned his lesson from the NGE. Why do people believe this, because he said so ??? The man and his company are literally incapable of honesty but we should believe him now ?
Sorry but his so-called admittance to NGE mistake is another lie or PR spin. SOE knew full well what the NGE would bring. It wasnt about fixing the game or appealing to a new audience or any of the 30 other BS reasons he stated back then. It was all about reducing maintenance costs and being able to slash the staff down to minimal support. The NGE was nothing more than SOE's way of saying we give up on SWG so lets make it into another Matrix and milk it with minimal costs.
If you look past Smedley's comments and just examine the NGE you'll see it for what it really was. Anyone should realize that taking out 75% of the game's features wouldnt result in more players.
Originally posted by admriker4 Finally, someone that gets it. I guess you had to be there and live through it to truly appreciate the madness behind SOE's actions. And thats why I post against SOE. So many who didnt experience SOE firsthand and what they are capable of actually believe Smedley when he states that he learned his lesson from the NGE. Why do people believe this, because he said so ??? The man and his company are literally incapable of honesty but we should believe him now ? Sorry but his so-called admittance to NGE mistake is another lie or PR spin. SOE knew full well what the NGE would bring. It wasnt about fixing the game or appealing to a new audience or any of the 30 other BS reasons he stated back then. It was all about reducing maintenance costs and being able to slash the staff down to minimal support. The NGE was nothing more than SOE's way of saying we give up on SWG so lets make it into another Matrix and milk it with minimal costs. If you look past Smedley's comments and just examine the NGE you'll see it for what it really was. Anyone should realize that taking out 75% of the game's features wouldnt result in more players.
Fine. We get it. Get over it and move on with your life.
I was a SWG vet myself and was pissed as hell. But I'm through talking about how bad the NGE sucks and how a miss the good old days like I'm some 70 year old man who doesn't remember that the "good old days" had severe problems too.
Who cares what SOE does to Vanguard? Maybe they'll actually make a good game out of it in the long run like they did EQ2. Either way, just get over it man. There's more to life and more to MMOs than coming here to shat on SOE.
I and the thousands of others that left SWG have several reasons to feel anger towards SOE. Here are a few reasons for those who might be unaware of just how dishonest SOE really is. Youve been warned... Folks tend to have short memories and some werent around for all the lies. So here's a list of lies SOE has told us.
.... (SNIP LONG LIST)
Sir, I doff my hat to you. Or in pre-CU SWG parlance, which I know you will understand:
/kowtow admriker4
You have hit every single nail pretty much right on the head.
For those who doubt Admriker4, I was there too... From 7/29/03 (1 month after launch) through 11/15/05 (the day NGE launched, which is the day I canceled). With the exception of his comments about his post-NGE trial, and his rumors at the end from the "source" -- both of which I believe, by the way -- I can confirm that I witnessed every single thing he described in his post, exactly as he described it. All the lies, the deception, the misdirection, the timeline of events... everything he describes, is 100% accurate.
And it's exactly why I have little faith that SOE will do a damn thing to actually improve Vanguard in any way the players right now would find acceptable. The endless pattern of SOE with SWG is the constant revamping of the game from whatever it is, right now, into some new version of the game that they think will somehow, magically, attract new players. If anything, Vanguard, with at best estimates maybe 1/3 of the playerbase SWG had at its height, is going to be more in the crosshairs for this -- they have got to be thinking of doing major revamps to try to attract more players. Their typical pattern with doing this is to "WOW it up", as a friend of mine from SWG likes to describe it.
Now, I am not saying WOW is a bad game. It's conceivable that Vanguard could well become objectively better as a game, if they "WOW it up." But that is not the point. The point is that Smed has already made the same exact lies about Vanguard that he made 2 or 3 times in open letters to the SWG community. "Learned form our mistakes," "Won't mess up again like we did," "Won't change the game dramatically like this again", etc... these are all things he has said before, and before now, every time he's said them, they have been bald-faced lies. To expect that suddenly, magically, now, this time, Smed is being truthful, is about as rational as SOE expecting that now, this time, when they revamp SWG yet again, suddenly all the millions of players they've never had but always wanted, will appear and subscribe.
Neither one of those things is gonna happen, people.
C
Finally, someone that gets it. I guess you had to be there and live through it to truly appreciate the madness behind SOE's actions.
And thats why I post against SOE. So many who didnt experience SOE firsthand and what they are capable of actually believe Smedley when he states that he learned his lesson from the NGE. Why do people believe this, because he said so ??? The man and his company are literally incapable of honesty but we should believe him now ?
Sorry but his so-called admittance to NGE mistake is another lie or PR spin. SOE knew full well what the NGE would bring. It wasnt about fixing the game or appealing to a new audience or any of the 30 other BS reasons he stated back then. It was all about reducing maintenance costs and being able to slash the staff down to minimal support. The NGE was nothing more than SOE's way of saying we give up on SWG so lets make it into another Matrix and milk it with minimal costs.
If you look past Smedley's comments and just examine the NGE you'll see it for what it really was. Anyone should realize that taking out 75% of the game's features wouldnt result in more players.
I also have stated that I GET IT. WE ALL GET IT. THE WHOLE WORLD GETS IT. PEOPLE THAT HAVE NEVER PLAYED THE GAME GET IT. SMALL TRIBES IN THE DEEPEST JUNGLES OF THE CONGO GET IT. LONG EXTINCT ALIEN CIVILISATIONS GET IT. JEZUZ... EVEN MY NAN GETS IT.
I have never said that what you say is wrong, I am just saying.. well.. It's all so just damn BORING having ex SWG players stinking up every discussion that is somehow linked to SOE.
Originally posted by admriker4 Finally, someone that gets it. I guess you had to be there and live through it to truly appreciate the madness behind SOE's actions. And thats why I post against SOE. So many who didnt experience SOE firsthand and what they are capable of actually believe Smedley when he states that he learned his lesson from the NGE. Why do people believe this, because he said so ??? The man and his company are literally incapable of honesty but we should believe him now ? Sorry but his so-called admittance to NGE mistake is another lie or PR spin. SOE knew full well what the NGE would bring. It wasnt about fixing the game or appealing to a new audience or any of the 30 other BS reasons he stated back then. It was all about reducing maintenance costs and being able to slash the staff down to minimal support. The NGE was nothing more than SOE's way of saying we give up on SWG so lets make it into another Matrix and milk it with minimal costs. If you look past Smedley's comments and just examine the NGE you'll see it for what it really was. Anyone should realize that taking out 75% of the game's features wouldnt result in more players.
Fine. We get it. Get over it and move on with your life.
I was a SWG vet myself and was pissed as hell. But I'm through talking about how bad the NGE sucks and how a miss the good old days like I'm some 70 year old man who doesn't remember that the "good old days" had severe problems too.
Who cares what SOE does to Vanguard? Maybe they'll actually make a good game out of it in the long run like they did EQ2. Either way, just get over it man. There's more to life and more to MMOs than coming here to shat on SOE.
Has it ever occured to anyone that spouts all the SOE hate, that Smed is like you're Dad when you tried to show him an Atari 2600 or try to get him to listnen to Heavy Metal? I was on the SOE hate bandwagon for a while. i skipped SWG all together after seeing how goofy it played in beta but I was pretty darn ticked about EQI post Velious and I was down right pissed about how lame EQ2 was at release.
You know why EQ2 wasn't great and wasn't a contender at release? Because Smed and co didn't want to lose it's EQI subscribers so they tried to make EQ2 as far removed from EQI as possible to gain a new crowd. The vast majority of people however were old EQI vets who loved Norrath but wanted something bigger and better and more modern. Smed didn't set out to poop all over me or any fan. He was just some "Old fart" who didn't get it. Rumour has it that Brad barely plays MMORPGs and Smed is to busy making cell phone games to pay much attention to us MMORPGers. He put someone in charge at EQ2 that knows gaming and the game is vastly better now. If he does the same for Vanguard then maybe it also can turn around. Smed might get credit but I imagine he sits in an office and gets briefed by a bunch of suits. I won't say he is an idiot but he doesn't seem to know what makes a game successful. He has to fumble around and try different things and then tick people off in the process......Sounds just like my Dad trying to figure out the DVD player personally.
"We get it," at least partly misses the point. Admriker's not addressing people who get it. He's trying to address people who do not realize the pattern of lies, deception, and misdirection SOE engaged in for so many years with SWG. He is trying to warn people not to believe what Smed says.
"It's not really Smed's fault, since he's not a designer" also misses the point. Smed may even have believed every word he wrote in those now-proven-false posts about SWG in the past, and it still would not change the essential reality, which you have missed or brushed aside as irrelevant, and that reality is this:
You cannot believe one single word Smed or the SOE PR machine utters.
Why? Because whether he personally believes those words or not, those words have proven false time, and time again. Not just slightly off, but completely and totally the opposite of what ended up happening. "The CU is here to stay and will be better in 6 months" was completely false. The CU went away in 6 months and a totally new game was erected in its place. "We will strive to communicate better", which has been said probably 100 times in the last 3 or 4 years from SOE, has been false every time they have said it -- they have never once done anything to actually improve their communication.
So... if you want to believe, for other reasons, that SOE will improve Vanguard while not fundamentally changing it, go ahead. But to believe it because they say so, or because Smed says so in particular, is to be blind to history, naive beyond comprehension, and ultimately, fooling yourself. Because you'd be much more likely to correctly forecast reality by taking everything the SOE machine and Smed say, and expecting the complete opposite, than by believing them.
And that is Admriker's point -- not that you should hate SOE, but just to be aware, and not be sucked in by their PR, which has proven false on every detail, each and every time.
Again, it might be false because they thought X really would happen, but couldn't make it work, so they switched to Y. That makes X not be a lie, sure... but it doesn't make X true. Their statements, intentionally or unintentionally, are always false in the end. So, take what they say with a grain of salt... In fact I'd recommend a whole mountain of salt.
Getting back specifically to Vanguard, what have they said? "We will communicate better" - always false before, so don't expect communications. "There will be no V-NGE." - this means there WILL be one (though they won't be stupid enough to give it a name or acronym like last time, they'll just call it a "publish"). "We have learned from our mistakes" - this means they haven't learned a damn thing.
"We get it," at least partly misses the point. Admriker's not addressing people who get it. He's trying to address people who do not realize the pattern of lies, deception, and misdirection SOE engaged in for so many years with SWG. He is trying to warn people not to believe what Smed says.
"It's not really Smed's fault, since he's not a designer" also misses the point. Smed may even have believed every word he wrote in those now-proven-false posts about SWG in the past, and it still would not change the essential reality, which you have missed or brushed aside as irrelevant, and that reality is this:
You cannot believe one single word Smed or the SOE PR machine utters.
Why? Because whether he personally believes those words or not, those words have proven false time, and time again. Not just slightly off, but completely and totally the opposite of what ended up happening. "The CU is here to stay and will be better in 6 months" was completely false. The CU went away in 6 months and a totally new game was erected in its place. "We will strive to communicate better", which has been said probably 100 times in the last 3 or 4 years from SOE, has been false every time they have said it -- they have never once done anything to actually improve their communication.
So... if you want to believe, for other reasons, that SOE will improve Vanguard while not fundamentally changing it, go ahead. But to believe it because they say so, or because Smed says so in particular, is to be blind to history, naive beyond comprehension, and ultimately, fooling yourself. Because you'd be much more likely to correctly forecast reality by taking everything the SOE machine and Smed say, and expecting the complete opposite, than by believing them.
And that is Admriker's point -- not that you should hate SOE, but just to be aware, and not be sucked in by their PR, which has proven false on every detail, each and every time.
Again, it might be false because they thought X really would happen, but couldn't make it work, so they switched to Y. That makes X not be a lie, sure... but it doesn't make X true. Their statements, intentionally or unintentionally, are always false in the end. So, take what they say with a grain of salt... In fact I'd recommend a whole mountain of salt.
Getting back specifically to Vanguard, what have they said? "We will communicate better" - always false before, so don't expect communications. "There will be no V-NGE." - this means there WILL be one (though they won't be stupid enough to give it a name or acronym like last time, they'll just call it a "publish"). "We have learned from our mistakes" - this means they haven't learned a damn thing.
And so on...
C
Exactly. There's people on this very board that don't get it. They believed $OE would never take it over, and now that they did, they believe $OE will be their savior.
Look, some people can be told not to piss on an electric fence... and others have to find out for themselves. There's no convincing them, let them get zapped.
Shayde - SWG (dead) Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me. I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too. 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
"We get it," at least partly misses the point. Admriker's not addressing people who get it. He's trying to address people who do not realize the pattern of lies, deception, and misdirection SOE engaged in for so many years with SWG.
No. With all due respect, YOU both miss my point.
WE ALL GET IT.
ABSOLUTELY.
EVERYONE.
GETS IT.
Posts made about this now are both pointless and redundent. It's like us hating Germans for WW2... There comes a time when it's right to recognise history as a learned lesson, especially when all the signs are that that lesson has indeed been learned, and not as an open wound.
Smedley doesnt think the NGE was a mistake. He might state that publicly to gain some good PR points (and its obviously has worked as many have bought into it). Dont forget SOE employees a large PR staff. Fact is Smedley knew what he was doing with the NGE. A Fortune 500 company doesnt do anything without market research and bean counters involved. Its simple math really, SOE estimates how many accounts they'll lose plus the savings in expenses with a smaller dev team plus savings from an easier to maintain game and then decides if its a wise move. Obviously SOE decided it would be more profitable to run SWG via NGE changes with a small team and a small player base. The only mistake Smedley made truly was possibly misjudging the numbers that left and the bad press they got over this. And dont get me wrong, I too hoped Vanguard would be a hit. Im a huge fan of sandbox mmo's and VG seemed to have everything I prefer in a game...tons of classes to choose from...in-game housing...npc vendors, etc. Vanguard's failure will only mean future devs will possibly steer clear of sandbox games. However with SOE involved I cant bring myself to trust them again. They lied so many times with SWG I lost count. They screwed over all our hard work not once but twice with the cu as well as the NGE. SOE doesnt care if a major change makes that armor you worked so hard for obsolete. SOE doesnt care if that weapon you spent 30 billion on cant be equipped now. SOE just doesnt care about its players.
Fortune 500 companies have made disastarous decisions time and time again. that is why some companies that are one no longer are, new companies are, etc. Smedley has always been known as a man of remarkable candor, love him or hate him. The NGE was not a profitable business decision. If their marketing team and bean counters told them that, well, they ended up getting proved wrong. Even if Smed misjudged what you say he did, the fact is he admits something was a mistake in regards to the NGE. Even if acting out of pure self-interest and greed, we won't see NGE2. (I have no problem of people doing that out of self-interest and wanting to maximize a profit, it is why they are there.)
I can understand your SOE hate here. However, I also think they should be given at least a chance by the Anti-SOE brigade to see what they do. Doesn't mean you have to subscribe. But don't openly cheer for Vangaurd's destruction under SOE's rule, as your original post almost seems to imply.
"We get it," at least partly misses the point. Admriker's not addressing people who get it. He's trying to address people who do not realize the pattern of lies, deception, and misdirection SOE engaged in for so many years with SWG.
No. With all due respect, YOU both miss my point.
WE ALL GET IT.
ABSOLUTELY.
EVERYONE.
GETS IT.
Posts made about this now are both pointless and redundent. It's like us hating Germans for WW2... There comes a time when it's right to recognise history as a learned lesson, especially when all the signs are that that lesson has indeed been learned, and not as an open wound.
Well, when $OE surenders and get charged with war crimes, get back to me.
Shayde - SWG (dead) Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me. I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too. 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
I wonder when people are going to realise that vanguard and any other mmo is but a video game. Something which your not forced to spend your time on. I honestly don't feel empathy for people who complain about how a game was crap from launch and how they feel betrayed etc. Crap from launch eh? Time to move onto something else then.
Main point is, your not forced to do anything. If you disagree with how something is run/going then its time to move onto something else. However don't flame the people that enjoy playing those games just cause they do and you don't.
Exactly. There's people on this very board that don't get it. They believed $OE would never take it over, and now that they did, they believe $OE will be their savior.
Look, some people can be told not to piss on an electric fence... and others have to find out for themselves. There's no convincing them, let them get zapped.
So what are you saying? That we should have a never ending war of words on every SOE game forum? Some people have way too much time on their hands.
There's a reason these forums have an official "We hate SOE thread". It's high time the staff on MMORPG.com redirected every SOE hater to those threads so that the rest of us can discuss and play the games we want without having to sift through a million troll threads about how awful SOE is.
I don't like SOE. I was burned by the NGE. But for Fuck's sake, stick to the official SOE hate thread or go pour your emo heart out on a blog where even fewer people will have to read this crap.
Well, I couldn't take anymore of the game. The low player population per server is horrid and the transitioning effect from Sigil to SOE really needs to be ironed out and freshened up. I'll check back in a few months to see how this game is doing because I really wanted to enjoy it.
My predictions...
1. servers will be consolidated down to a very small number. maybe 3 (like matrix).
2. minor glitch fixes will happen so the game is at least somewhat playable.
3. staff will be reduced to a skeleton crew once they're done fixing some bugs.
Thats it for VG then. You wont see any expansions. You wont get much more attention than Matrix gets. If the game was completely different than any other MMO's SOE owned, Id think differently.
quoting myself because 2 of those 3 have just been proven to be true. Id also like to point out the VG dev who spoke made a classic SOE statement..."we need to communicate better" lol. SOE loves to pull that one out and I dont blame them. The seals always clap and say yes just what we need every single time.
Seems like my prediction is likely accurate. Vanguard will be SOE's next Matrix project. They obviously see no growth happening with server mergers. SOE is following the exact same pattern they have in the past. They are saying the same things as before.
Jump overboard now, it will save you a lot of heartache and money
Exactly. There's people on this very board that don't get it. They believed $OE would never take it over, and now that they did, they believe $OE will be their savior.
Look, some people can be told not to piss on an electric fence... and others have to find out for themselves. There's no convincing them, let them get zapped.
So what are you saying? That we should have a never ending war of words on every SOE game forum? Some people have way too much time on their hands.
There's a reason these forums have an official "We hate SOE thread". It's high time the staff on MMORPG.com redirected every SOE hater to those threads so that the rest of us can discuss and play the games we want without having to sift through a million troll threads about how awful SOE is.
I don't like SOE. I was burned by the NGE. But for Fuck's sake, stick to the official SOE hate thread or go pour your emo heart out on a blog where even fewer people will have to read this crap.
He is saying what Im saying. Vanguard is following the same path other SOE disasters have gone. Theyre literally following Matrix move for move. Im not bashing SOE, im merely warning folks whats about to happen.
This has nothing to do with my hatred for SOE. I saw several posts here claiming SOE would be their savior. That SOE will turn the game around and bring in 500k players. Im here letting people know not to waste their money unless they dont care if the game is empty and servers are merged and no additional content will come.
If you like the game as is, then by all means play. But if your sticking around because you think SOE is going to invest some serious money and time and turn the game around, well I think previous posts have proven that to be false.
"We get it," at least partly misses the point. Admriker's not addressing people who get it. He's trying to address people who do not realize the pattern of lies, deception, and misdirection SOE engaged in for so many years with SWG.
No. With all due respect, YOU both miss my point.
WE ALL GET IT.
ABSOLUTELY.
EVERYONE.
GETS IT.
Posts made about this now are both pointless and redundent. It's like us hating Germans for WW2... There comes a time when it's right to recognise history as a learned lesson, especially when all the signs are that that lesson has indeed been learned, and not as an open wound.
It's getting old. I played SWG from beta 3. I've seen it all. I still own my account for FFS. It's a game. Get over it guys. I pay my soe pass to have fun. When it's not fun anymore, i move on. I don't even care if they fucks VG up. I'll move on. That is what you guys don't get... just move on.
You know what? I like SOE! I think they're a pretty awesome company. I get so sick and tired of hearing how awful SOE is over something crappy that happened with Star Wars Galaxies. I played SWG at launch and you know what? The game wasn't that great to begin with. SOE didn't screw up the game 1-2 years down the road. It was a failure from the very get-go that only did well because of the "Star Wars" label.
So, SOE has made a game or two that didn't quite live up to our standards. What about The Matrix Online? You want the truth? The game was already dead when they aquired it. I'm surprised that they didn't pull the plug and maybe we should give them credit for keeping a game that probably isn't pulling in very much money? SOE has made deals to aquire games that they believe can be successful. Correct me if I'm wrong... but didn't the deal to aquire The Matrix Online include the rights to a DC comics mmorpg game? If that's true... then that's probably why they got The Matrix Online in the deal.
I really don't know... I really can't say. What I do know is that SOE has made a couple of great games (Everquest and Everquest 2). They have the resources to do well with Vanguard: Saga of Heroes and I believe a year from now.. it'll be a much better game because of SOE's involvement. I just can't see how people can take SOE's failures so personally? They're just a company. Was my life changed when I bought Windows ME and it sucked? Nah, I can't say that it did.
I don't even remember what the original poster's point was? That because of SOE, Vanguard is gonna suck? Umm, isn't a little too late for that? I assure you.. it sucked before SOE bought it and it can only get better from here on out. It's just a point of view that I don't get. I haven't like every product that Coke or Pepsi have come out with... but do I go on forums saying how much Coke sucks for releasing OK soda? Or bringing back Vanilla Coke. Nah, I just move on... and live my life. I suggest you do the same.
He is saying what Im saying. Vanguard is following the same path other SOE disasters have gone. Theyre literally following Matrix move for move. Im not bashing SOE, im merely warning folks whats about to happen. This has nothing to do with my hatred for SOE. I saw several posts here claiming SOE would be their savior. That SOE will turn the game around and bring in 500k players. Im here letting people know not to waste their money unless they dont care if the game is empty and servers are merged and no additional content will come. If you like the game as is, then by all means play. But if your sticking around because you think SOE is going to invest some serious money and time and turn the game around, well I think previous posts have proven that to be false.
It still sounds like an SOE hater thread to me. The same predictions of disaster, warning other people not to waste their money because YOU have identified a pattern that others have not and feel obliged to drag SOE through the mud just in case the people on these forums missed the millions of other threads on exactly the same subject.
What if SOE DOES in fact make this game playable, fun, and popular all over again and you warned off people who would have otherwise had a good experience?
We just don't need any more of these doomsday prediction "I told you so" threads.
He is saying what Im saying. Vanguard is following the same path other SOE disasters have gone. Theyre literally following Matrix move for move. Im not bashing SOE, im merely warning folks whats about to happen. This has nothing to do with my hatred for SOE. I saw several posts here claiming SOE would be their savior. That SOE will turn the game around and bring in 500k players. Im here letting people know not to waste their money unless they dont care if the game is empty and servers are merged and no additional content will come. If you like the game as is, then by all means play. But if your sticking around because you think SOE is going to invest some serious money and time and turn the game around, well I think previous posts have proven that to be false.
It still sounds like an SOE hater thread to me. The same predictions of disaster, warning other people not to waste their money because YOU have identified a pattern that others have not and feel obliged to drag SOE through the mud just in case the people on these forums missed the millions of other threads on exactly the same subject.
What if SOE DOES in fact make this game playable, fun, and popular all over again and you warned off people who would have otherwise had a good experience?
We just don't need any more of these doomsday prediction "I told you so" threads.It is good if people are forewarned about $oE. The worst, the absolute worst customer service I have ever encountered is from this company, and thats saying alot. There is a reason so many people hate this company .
It is good if people are forewarned about $oE. The worst, the absolute worst customer service I have ever encountered is from this company, and thats saying alot. There is a reason so many people hate this company .
Right, but the point is that there are a million threads on exactly the same subject, and a stickied "We Hate SOE" thread on every one of their game's on MMORPG.com
Like I said, I was a SWG vet and got burned by the NGE and SOE's terrible customer service. But you know what? SOE has produced some good games too. I love EQ2 and have yet to find a better MMO out there right now for my tastes.
If you want to label SOE as some evil, money grubbing corporation, that's fine. But we don't need a million threads on exactly that subject.
You know what? I like SOE! I think they're a pretty awesome company. I get so sick and tired of hearing how awful SOE is over something crappy that happened with Star Wars Galaxies. I played SWG at launch and you know what? The game wasn't that great to begin with. SOE didn't screw up the game 1-2 years down the road. It was a failure from the very get-go that only did well because of the "Star Wars" label. So, SOE has made a game or two that didn't quite live up to our standards. What about The Matrix Online? You want the truth? The game was already dead when they aquired it. I'm surprised that they didn't pull the plug and maybe we should give them credit for keeping a game that probably isn't pulling in very much money? SOE has made deals to aquire games that they believe can be successful. Correct me if I'm wrong... but didn't the deal to aquire The Matrix Online include the rights to a DC comics mmorpg game? If that's true... then that's probably why they got The Matrix Online in the deal. I really don't know... I really can't say. What I do know is that SOE has made a couple of great games (Everquest and Everquest 2). They have the resources to do well with Vanguard: Saga of Heroes and I believe a year from now.. it'll be a much better game because of SOE's involvement. I just can't see how people can take SOE's failures so personally? They're just a company. Was my life changed when I bought Windows ME and it sucked? Nah, I can't say that it did. I don't even remember what the original poster's point was? That because of SOE, Vanguard is gonna suck? Umm, isn't a little too late for that? I assure you.. it sucked before SOE bought it and it can only get better from here on out. It's just a point of view that I don't get. I haven't like every product that Coke or Pepsi have come out with... but do I go on forums saying how much Coke sucks for releasing OK soda? Or bringing back Vanilla Coke. Nah, I just move on... and live my life. I suggest you do the same.
It is a valid point. Hasn't 95% of most Star Wars IP video games blew? Were any actually great beyond Knights of the Old Republic and a few shooters? People seem to just not be able to get a Star Wars game right. It's sad when an IP's greatest game is Star Wars Lego. I tried SWG in beta and thought it stunk personally. The controls were awful and combat felt clunky. However EQI was fun and EQII finally became fun after some work so who knows what they can do with Vanguard. In my opinion they can't screw it up worse than it is.
You know what? I like SOE! I think they're a pretty awesome company. I get so sick and tired of hearing how awful SOE is over something crappy that happened with Star Wars Galaxies. I played SWG at launch and you know what? The game wasn't that great to begin with. SOE didn't screw up the game 1-2 years down the road. It was a failure from the very get-go that only did well because of the "Star Wars" label. So, SOE has made a game or two that didn't quite live up to our standards. What about The Matrix Online? You want the truth? The game was already dead when they aquired it. I'm surprised that they didn't pull the plug and maybe we should give them credit for keeping a game that probably isn't pulling in very much money? SOE has made deals to aquire games that they believe can be successful. Correct me if I'm wrong... but didn't the deal to aquire The Matrix Online include the rights to a DC comics mmorpg game? If that's true... then that's probably why they got The Matrix Online in the deal. I really don't know... I really can't say. What I do know is that SOE has made a couple of great games (Everquest and Everquest 2). They have the resources to do well with Vanguard: Saga of Heroes and I believe a year from now.. it'll be a much better game because of SOE's involvement. I just can't see how people can take SOE's failures so personally? They're just a company. Was my life changed when I bought Windows ME and it sucked? Nah, I can't say that it did. I don't even remember what the original poster's point was? That because of SOE, Vanguard is gonna suck? Umm, isn't a little too late for that? I assure you.. it sucked before SOE bought it and it can only get better from here on out. It's just a point of view that I don't get. I haven't like every product that Coke or Pepsi have come out with... but do I go on forums saying how much Coke sucks for releasing OK soda? Or bringing back Vanilla Coke. Nah, I just move on... and live my life. I suggest you do the same.
The point of my post was identifying a pattern with SOE in regards to what players should expect to happen with VG. Everyone was claiming SOE would be the savior and I felt compelled to show them thats likely not going to be the case. And Im already being proven right as one day after i started this post SOE announced the server merger.
Why should i "move on" as you suggest when I can possibly stop SOE from screwing yet another MMO community. If I can save a few folks $100 because they believe the upcoming posts from SOE promising the world, then I feel like Ive done some good. If I can make sure that Smedley's year-end bonus is a few thousand dollars lighter because some players were prewarned then again Ive done some good.
And the comparison to coke isnt even in the same ballpark dude. You dont get it as most dont. Its not about quality of SOE products, it never was (although most are garbage). Its about the way SOE treated us. Im not going to move on as you suggested when a company steals my money with that bait and switch crap they pulled with the NGE.
And to the other poster making the analogy to Germany / WW2. Again big difference, Germany has paid reparations and apologized over and over again. They have EARNED forgiveness.
SOE hasnt apologized for the NGE to us. Smedley may have stated he thought the NGE was a mistake (another PR lie) but he didnt apologize. SOE hasnt offered any classic servers as reparations. SOE only regrets the backlash they got from underestimating the passion of star wars fans. They dont regret the NGE, it was all part of their plan to strip the game of costs which it did. SOE hasnt gone on national tv to say sorry for screwing gamers for selling us an expansion and then changing the game 2 weeks later. SOE hasnt apologized for stealing current players subscription money and using it to develop an entirely new game. In my opinion, SOE's actions werent just disgusting, they were CRIMINAL.
So stop telling us vets to move on. Our dream since we were kids waiting in line to see perhaps the greatest movie of all time in 1977 was a chance to live in that world. Star Wars Galaxies was much more than a game, it was a virtual world we could live in. SOE stole that dream and my money and laughed at us on national tv.
vanguard never looked that amazing from the start anyway. if soe takes over i probably wouldnt even think about tryin out this game. i use to play the matrix online but got bored. i was thinkin about goin back but i heard soe made it even worse so i never want to go back to it again. and from what i heard about star wars i feel sorry for any mmo that gets taken over by soe.
In my opinion the game would have been shutdown six months after release if SoE had not stepped in and purchased it. Honestly, what game in the history of online games has had to have a server merger in the first year after release other than maybe an EA MMORPG? I don't remember any major titles, maybe AC2.
I think this is a good move for the players that like and play the game. SoE realizes the potential of this game and how it can compete with AoC if it is re-developed properly, which I think will motivate them to accelerate the fixes and improvements. I like EQ2 but it can't compete with some of the newer stuff coming out and I don't think SoE has anything new in development other than EQ2 stuff, so this could breathe some life back into SoE.
I was pretty upset myself about what happened to SWG, but after returning recently to check things out it is a shame that the game was not released like it is now minus the iconic crap. If anything, Vanguard showed the MMOG market that you better have your "stuff" together before release or you will fail regardless of the hype and SWG showed the market that if you don't listen to your player base you will lose it regardless of the branding. Let's hope STO learns from this if it ever gets released.
So I guess my point is that I am glad SoE has it now rather than two years from now because I doubt they can make it any worse. We all know what to expect as far as changes, so if you have played EQ, EQ2 or SWG you either liked them or did not. I personally think they will WoW us...
Despite what many like to hear, SWG is actually picking up again. Alot of changes have been made to what was the NGE that you can't really call it the NGE anymore, although it's not the CU or Pre-Cu either. These chages seem to be going over pretty well with the SWG community, both old and new as the servers are seeing increases in populations, with a number of them actually back to CU era population numbers.
You can dwell on the past and bring up every peice of evidence you want showing how you got "screwed over", but you need to look at the present and see how things have changed. The team they have working on SWG now has gone a long way to lifting it back up again, listening & reacting to the players and communicating that it's quite possible they'll do the same with VG.
Comments
I for ONE and darn tired of the SOE , Smedley and McQuaid drama.. As I said in a different post.. It's the same lil kids fighting over a SMALL corner of the sandbox.. I've moved on and playing in the entire sandbox now, and the SOE gang can have their lil corner drama.. The biggest problem here is.. The drama queens of this fiasco have HUGE egos, and poor insight what the average gamer wants.. They refuse to listen to others and they do not take advice or criticism well..
/kowtow admriker4
You have hit every single nail pretty much right on the head.
For those who doubt Admriker4, I was there too... From 7/29/03 (1 month after launch) through 11/15/05 (the day NGE launched, which is the day I canceled). With the exception of his comments about his post-NGE trial, and his rumors at the end from the "source" -- both of which I believe, by the way -- I can confirm that I witnessed every single thing he described in his post, exactly as he described it. All the lies, the deception, the misdirection, the timeline of events... everything he describes, is 100% accurate.
And it's exactly why I have little faith that SOE will do a damn thing to actually improve Vanguard in any way the players right now would find acceptable. The endless pattern of SOE with SWG is the constant revamping of the game from whatever it is, right now, into some new version of the game that they think will somehow, magically, attract new players. If anything, Vanguard, with at best estimates maybe 1/3 of the playerbase SWG had at its height, is going to be more in the crosshairs for this -- they have got to be thinking of doing major revamps to try to attract more players. Their typical pattern with doing this is to "WOW it up", as a friend of mine from SWG likes to describe it.
Now, I am not saying WOW is a bad game. It's conceivable that Vanguard could well become objectively better as a game, if they "WOW it up." But that is not the point. The point is that Smed has already made the same exact lies about Vanguard that he made 2 or 3 times in open letters to the SWG community. "Learned form our mistakes," "Won't mess up again like we did," "Won't change the game dramatically like this again", etc... these are all things he has said before, and before now, every time he's said them, they have been bald-faced lies. To expect that suddenly, magically, now, this time, Smed is being truthful, is about as rational as SOE expecting that now, this time, when they revamp SWG yet again, suddenly all the millions of players they've never had but always wanted, will appear and subscribe.
Neither one of those things is gonna happen, people.
C
/kowtow admriker4
You have hit every single nail pretty much right on the head.
For those who doubt Admriker4, I was there too... From 7/29/03 (1 month after launch) through 11/15/05 (the day NGE launched, which is the day I canceled). With the exception of his comments about his post-NGE trial, and his rumors at the end from the "source" -- both of which I believe, by the way -- I can confirm that I witnessed every single thing he described in his post, exactly as he described it. All the lies, the deception, the misdirection, the timeline of events... everything he describes, is 100% accurate.
And it's exactly why I have little faith that SOE will do a damn thing to actually improve Vanguard in any way the players right now would find acceptable. The endless pattern of SOE with SWG is the constant revamping of the game from whatever it is, right now, into some new version of the game that they think will somehow, magically, attract new players. If anything, Vanguard, with at best estimates maybe 1/3 of the playerbase SWG had at its height, is going to be more in the crosshairs for this -- they have got to be thinking of doing major revamps to try to attract more players. Their typical pattern with doing this is to "WOW it up", as a friend of mine from SWG likes to describe it.
Now, I am not saying WOW is a bad game. It's conceivable that Vanguard could well become objectively better as a game, if they "WOW it up." But that is not the point. The point is that Smed has already made the same exact lies about Vanguard that he made 2 or 3 times in open letters to the SWG community. "Learned form our mistakes," "Won't mess up again like we did," "Won't change the game dramatically like this again", etc... these are all things he has said before, and before now, every time he's said them, they have been bald-faced lies. To expect that suddenly, magically, now, this time, Smed is being truthful, is about as rational as SOE expecting that now, this time, when they revamp SWG yet again, suddenly all the millions of players they've never had but always wanted, will appear and subscribe.
Neither one of those things is gonna happen, people.
C
Finally, someone that gets it. I guess you had to be there and live through it to truly appreciate the madness behind SOE's actions.
And thats why I post against SOE. So many who didnt experience SOE firsthand and what they are capable of actually believe Smedley when he states that he learned his lesson from the NGE. Why do people believe this, because he said so ??? The man and his company are literally incapable of honesty but we should believe him now ?
Sorry but his so-called admittance to NGE mistake is another lie or PR spin. SOE knew full well what the NGE would bring. It wasnt about fixing the game or appealing to a new audience or any of the 30 other BS reasons he stated back then. It was all about reducing maintenance costs and being able to slash the staff down to minimal support. The NGE was nothing more than SOE's way of saying we give up on SWG so lets make it into another Matrix and milk it with minimal costs.
If you look past Smedley's comments and just examine the NGE you'll see it for what it really was. Anyone should realize that taking out 75% of the game's features wouldnt result in more players.
Fine. We get it. Get over it and move on with your life.
I was a SWG vet myself and was pissed as hell. But I'm through talking about how bad the NGE sucks and how a miss the good old days like I'm some 70 year old man who doesn't remember that the "good old days" had severe problems too.
Who cares what SOE does to Vanguard? Maybe they'll actually make a good game out of it in the long run like they did EQ2. Either way, just get over it man. There's more to life and more to MMOs than coming here to shat on SOE.
/kowtow admriker4
You have hit every single nail pretty much right on the head.
For those who doubt Admriker4, I was there too... From 7/29/03 (1 month after launch) through 11/15/05 (the day NGE launched, which is the day I canceled). With the exception of his comments about his post-NGE trial, and his rumors at the end from the "source" -- both of which I believe, by the way -- I can confirm that I witnessed every single thing he described in his post, exactly as he described it. All the lies, the deception, the misdirection, the timeline of events... everything he describes, is 100% accurate.
And it's exactly why I have little faith that SOE will do a damn thing to actually improve Vanguard in any way the players right now would find acceptable. The endless pattern of SOE with SWG is the constant revamping of the game from whatever it is, right now, into some new version of the game that they think will somehow, magically, attract new players. If anything, Vanguard, with at best estimates maybe 1/3 of the playerbase SWG had at its height, is going to be more in the crosshairs for this -- they have got to be thinking of doing major revamps to try to attract more players. Their typical pattern with doing this is to "WOW it up", as a friend of mine from SWG likes to describe it.
Now, I am not saying WOW is a bad game. It's conceivable that Vanguard could well become objectively better as a game, if they "WOW it up." But that is not the point. The point is that Smed has already made the same exact lies about Vanguard that he made 2 or 3 times in open letters to the SWG community. "Learned form our mistakes," "Won't mess up again like we did," "Won't change the game dramatically like this again", etc... these are all things he has said before, and before now, every time he's said them, they have been bald-faced lies. To expect that suddenly, magically, now, this time, Smed is being truthful, is about as rational as SOE expecting that now, this time, when they revamp SWG yet again, suddenly all the millions of players they've never had but always wanted, will appear and subscribe.
Neither one of those things is gonna happen, people.
C
Finally, someone that gets it. I guess you had to be there and live through it to truly appreciate the madness behind SOE's actions.
And thats why I post against SOE. So many who didnt experience SOE firsthand and what they are capable of actually believe Smedley when he states that he learned his lesson from the NGE. Why do people believe this, because he said so ??? The man and his company are literally incapable of honesty but we should believe him now ?
Sorry but his so-called admittance to NGE mistake is another lie or PR spin. SOE knew full well what the NGE would bring. It wasnt about fixing the game or appealing to a new audience or any of the 30 other BS reasons he stated back then. It was all about reducing maintenance costs and being able to slash the staff down to minimal support. The NGE was nothing more than SOE's way of saying we give up on SWG so lets make it into another Matrix and milk it with minimal costs.
If you look past Smedley's comments and just examine the NGE you'll see it for what it really was. Anyone should realize that taking out 75% of the game's features wouldnt result in more players.
I also have stated that I GET IT. WE ALL GET IT. THE WHOLE WORLD GETS IT. PEOPLE THAT HAVE NEVER PLAYED THE GAME GET IT. SMALL TRIBES IN THE DEEPEST JUNGLES OF THE CONGO GET IT. LONG EXTINCT ALIEN CIVILISATIONS GET IT. JEZUZ... EVEN MY NAN GETS IT.
I have never said that what you say is wrong, I am just saying.. well.. It's all so just damn BORING having ex SWG players stinking up every discussion that is somehow linked to SOE.
MOVE ON FFS
Fine. We get it. Get over it and move on with your life.
I was a SWG vet myself and was pissed as hell. But I'm through talking about how bad the NGE sucks and how a miss the good old days like I'm some 70 year old man who doesn't remember that the "good old days" had severe problems too.
Who cares what SOE does to Vanguard? Maybe they'll actually make a good game out of it in the long run like they did EQ2. Either way, just get over it man. There's more to life and more to MMOs than coming here to shat on SOE.
Has it ever occured to anyone that spouts all the SOE hate, that Smed is like you're Dad when you tried to show him an Atari 2600 or try to get him to listnen to Heavy Metal? I was on the SOE hate bandwagon for a while. i skipped SWG all together after seeing how goofy it played in beta but I was pretty darn ticked about EQI post Velious and I was down right pissed about how lame EQ2 was at release.
You know why EQ2 wasn't great and wasn't a contender at release? Because Smed and co didn't want to lose it's EQI subscribers so they tried to make EQ2 as far removed from EQI as possible to gain a new crowd. The vast majority of people however were old EQI vets who loved Norrath but wanted something bigger and better and more modern. Smed didn't set out to poop all over me or any fan. He was just some "Old fart" who didn't get it. Rumour has it that Brad barely plays MMORPGs and Smed is to busy making cell phone games to pay much attention to us MMORPGers. He put someone in charge at EQ2 that knows gaming and the game is vastly better now. If he does the same for Vanguard then maybe it also can turn around. Smed might get credit but I imagine he sits in an office and gets briefed by a bunch of suits. I won't say he is an idiot but he doesn't seem to know what makes a game successful. He has to fumble around and try different things and then tick people off in the process......Sounds just like my Dad trying to figure out the DVD player personally.
"It's not really Smed's fault, since he's not a designer" also misses the point. Smed may even have believed every word he wrote in those now-proven-false posts about SWG in the past, and it still would not change the essential reality, which you have missed or brushed aside as irrelevant, and that reality is this:
You cannot believe one single word Smed or the SOE PR machine utters.
Why? Because whether he personally believes those words or not, those words have proven false time, and time again. Not just slightly off, but completely and totally the opposite of what ended up happening. "The CU is here to stay and will be better in 6 months" was completely false. The CU went away in 6 months and a totally new game was erected in its place. "We will strive to communicate better", which has been said probably 100 times in the last 3 or 4 years from SOE, has been false every time they have said it -- they have never once done anything to actually improve their communication.
So... if you want to believe, for other reasons, that SOE will improve Vanguard while not fundamentally changing it, go ahead. But to believe it because they say so, or because Smed says so in particular, is to be blind to history, naive beyond comprehension, and ultimately, fooling yourself. Because you'd be much more likely to correctly forecast reality by taking everything the SOE machine and Smed say, and expecting the complete opposite, than by believing them.
And that is Admriker's point -- not that you should hate SOE, but just to be aware, and not be sucked in by their PR, which has proven false on every detail, each and every time.
Again, it might be false because they thought X really would happen, but couldn't make it work, so they switched to Y. That makes X not be a lie, sure... but it doesn't make X true. Their statements, intentionally or unintentionally, are always false in the end. So, take what they say with a grain of salt... In fact I'd recommend a whole mountain of salt.
Getting back specifically to Vanguard, what have they said? "We will communicate better" - always false before, so don't expect communications. "There will be no V-NGE." - this means there WILL be one (though they won't be stupid enough to give it a name or acronym like last time, they'll just call it a "publish"). "We have learned from our mistakes" - this means they haven't learned a damn thing.
And so on...
C
Look, some people can be told not to piss on an electric fence... and others have to find out for themselves. There's no convincing them, let them get zapped.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
No. With all due respect, YOU both miss my point.
WE ALL GET IT.
ABSOLUTELY.
EVERYONE.
GETS IT.
Posts made about this now are both pointless and redundent. It's like us hating Germans for WW2... There comes a time when it's right to recognise history as a learned lesson, especially when all the signs are that that lesson has indeed been learned, and not as an open wound.
Fortune 500 companies have made disastarous decisions time and time again. that is why some companies that are one no longer are, new companies are, etc. Smedley has always been known as a man of remarkable candor, love him or hate him. The NGE was not a profitable business decision. If their marketing team and bean counters told them that, well, they ended up getting proved wrong. Even if Smed misjudged what you say he did, the fact is he admits something was a mistake in regards to the NGE. Even if acting out of pure self-interest and greed, we won't see NGE2. (I have no problem of people doing that out of self-interest and wanting to maximize a profit, it is why they are there.)
I can understand your SOE hate here. However, I also think they should be given at least a chance by the Anti-SOE brigade to see what they do. Doesn't mean you have to subscribe. But don't openly cheer for Vangaurd's destruction under SOE's rule, as your original post almost seems to imply.
No. With all due respect, YOU both miss my point.
WE ALL GET IT.
ABSOLUTELY.
EVERYONE.
GETS IT.
Posts made about this now are both pointless and redundent. It's like us hating Germans for WW2... There comes a time when it's right to recognise history as a learned lesson, especially when all the signs are that that lesson has indeed been learned, and not as an open wound.
Well, when $OE surenders and get charged with war crimes, get back to me.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
I wonder when people are going to realise that vanguard and any other mmo is but a video game. Something which your not forced to spend your time on. I honestly don't feel empathy for people who complain about how a game was crap from launch and how they feel betrayed etc. Crap from launch eh? Time to move onto something else then.
Main point is, your not forced to do anything. If you disagree with how something is run/going then its time to move onto something else. However don't flame the people that enjoy playing those games just cause they do and you don't.
So what are you saying? That we should have a never ending war of words on every SOE game forum? Some people have way too much time on their hands.
There's a reason these forums have an official "We hate SOE thread". It's high time the staff on MMORPG.com redirected every SOE hater to those threads so that the rest of us can discuss and play the games we want without having to sift through a million troll threads about how awful SOE is.
I don't like SOE. I was burned by the NGE. But for Fuck's sake, stick to the official SOE hate thread or go pour your emo heart out on a blog where even fewer people will have to read this crap.
My predictions...
1. servers will be consolidated down to a very small number. maybe 3 (like matrix).
2. minor glitch fixes will happen so the game is at least somewhat playable.
3. staff will be reduced to a skeleton crew once they're done fixing some bugs.
Thats it for VG then. You wont see any expansions. You wont get much more attention than Matrix gets. If the game was completely different than any other MMO's SOE owned, Id think differently.
quoting myself because 2 of those 3 have just been proven to be true. Id also like to point out the VG dev who spoke made a classic SOE statement..."we need to communicate better" lol. SOE loves to pull that one out and I dont blame them. The seals always clap and say yes just what we need every single time.
Seems like my prediction is likely accurate. Vanguard will be SOE's next Matrix project. They obviously see no growth happening with server mergers. SOE is following the exact same pattern they have in the past. They are saying the same things as before.
Jump overboard now, it will save you a lot of heartache and money
So what are you saying? That we should have a never ending war of words on every SOE game forum? Some people have way too much time on their hands.
There's a reason these forums have an official "We hate SOE thread". It's high time the staff on MMORPG.com redirected every SOE hater to those threads so that the rest of us can discuss and play the games we want without having to sift through a million troll threads about how awful SOE is.
I don't like SOE. I was burned by the NGE. But for Fuck's sake, stick to the official SOE hate thread or go pour your emo heart out on a blog where even fewer people will have to read this crap.
He is saying what Im saying. Vanguard is following the same path other SOE disasters have gone. Theyre literally following Matrix move for move. Im not bashing SOE, im merely warning folks whats about to happen.
This has nothing to do with my hatred for SOE. I saw several posts here claiming SOE would be their savior. That SOE will turn the game around and bring in 500k players. Im here letting people know not to waste their money unless they dont care if the game is empty and servers are merged and no additional content will come.
If you like the game as is, then by all means play. But if your sticking around because you think SOE is going to invest some serious money and time and turn the game around, well I think previous posts have proven that to be false.
No. With all due respect, YOU both miss my point.
WE ALL GET IT.
ABSOLUTELY.
EVERYONE.
GETS IT.
Posts made about this now are both pointless and redundent. It's like us hating Germans for WW2... There comes a time when it's right to recognise history as a learned lesson, especially when all the signs are that that lesson has indeed been learned, and not as an open wound.
It's getting old. I played SWG from beta 3. I've seen it all. I still own my account for FFS. It's a game. Get over it guys. I pay my soe pass to have fun. When it's not fun anymore, i move on. I don't even care if they fucks VG up. I'll move on. That is what you guys don't get... just move on.eqnext.wikia.com
You know what? I like SOE! I think they're a pretty awesome company. I get so sick and tired of hearing how awful SOE is over something crappy that happened with Star Wars Galaxies. I played SWG at launch and you know what? The game wasn't that great to begin with. SOE didn't screw up the game 1-2 years down the road. It was a failure from the very get-go that only did well because of the "Star Wars" label.
So, SOE has made a game or two that didn't quite live up to our standards. What about The Matrix Online? You want the truth? The game was already dead when they aquired it. I'm surprised that they didn't pull the plug and maybe we should give them credit for keeping a game that probably isn't pulling in very much money? SOE has made deals to aquire games that they believe can be successful. Correct me if I'm wrong... but didn't the deal to aquire The Matrix Online include the rights to a DC comics mmorpg game? If that's true... then that's probably why they got The Matrix Online in the deal.
I really don't know... I really can't say. What I do know is that SOE has made a couple of great games (Everquest and Everquest 2). They have the resources to do well with Vanguard: Saga of Heroes and I believe a year from now.. it'll be a much better game because of SOE's involvement. I just can't see how people can take SOE's failures so personally? They're just a company. Was my life changed when I bought Windows ME and it sucked? Nah, I can't say that it did.
I don't even remember what the original poster's point was? That because of SOE, Vanguard is gonna suck? Umm, isn't a little too late for that? I assure you.. it sucked before SOE bought it and it can only get better from here on out. It's just a point of view that I don't get. I haven't like every product that Coke or Pepsi have come out with... but do I go on forums saying how much Coke sucks for releasing OK soda? Or bringing back Vanilla Coke. Nah, I just move on... and live my life. I suggest you do the same.
What if SOE DOES in fact make this game playable, fun, and popular all over again and you warned off people who would have otherwise had a good experience?
We just don't need any more of these doomsday prediction "I told you so" threads.
What if SOE DOES in fact make this game playable, fun, and popular all over again and you warned off people who would have otherwise had a good experience?
We just don't need any more of these doomsday prediction "I told you so" threads.It is good if people are forewarned about $oE. The worst, the absolute worst customer service I have ever encountered is from this company, and thats saying alot. There is a reason so many people hate this company .
Right, but the point is that there are a million threads on exactly the same subject, and a stickied "We Hate SOE" thread on every one of their game's on MMORPG.com
Like I said, I was a SWG vet and got burned by the NGE and SOE's terrible customer service. But you know what? SOE has produced some good games too. I love EQ2 and have yet to find a better MMO out there right now for my tastes.
If you want to label SOE as some evil, money grubbing corporation, that's fine. But we don't need a million threads on exactly that subject.
It is a valid point. Hasn't 95% of most Star Wars IP video games blew? Were any actually great beyond Knights of the Old Republic and a few shooters? People seem to just not be able to get a Star Wars game right. It's sad when an IP's greatest game is Star Wars Lego. I tried SWG in beta and thought it stunk personally. The controls were awful and combat felt clunky. However EQI was fun and EQII finally became fun after some work so who knows what they can do with Vanguard. In my opinion they can't screw it up worse than it is.
The point of my post was identifying a pattern with SOE in regards to what players should expect to happen with VG. Everyone was claiming SOE would be the savior and I felt compelled to show them thats likely not going to be the case. And Im already being proven right as one day after i started this post SOE announced the server merger.
Why should i "move on" as you suggest when I can possibly stop SOE from screwing yet another MMO community. If I can save a few folks $100 because they believe the upcoming posts from SOE promising the world, then I feel like Ive done some good. If I can make sure that Smedley's year-end bonus is a few thousand dollars lighter because some players were prewarned then again Ive done some good.
And the comparison to coke isnt even in the same ballpark dude. You dont get it as most dont. Its not about quality of SOE products, it never was (although most are garbage). Its about the way SOE treated us. Im not going to move on as you suggested when a company steals my money with that bait and switch crap they pulled with the NGE.
And to the other poster making the analogy to Germany / WW2. Again big difference, Germany has paid reparations and apologized over and over again. They have EARNED forgiveness.
SOE hasnt apologized for the NGE to us. Smedley may have stated he thought the NGE was a mistake (another PR lie) but he didnt apologize. SOE hasnt offered any classic servers as reparations. SOE only regrets the backlash they got from underestimating the passion of star wars fans. They dont regret the NGE, it was all part of their plan to strip the game of costs which it did. SOE hasnt gone on national tv to say sorry for screwing gamers for selling us an expansion and then changing the game 2 weeks later. SOE hasnt apologized for stealing current players subscription money and using it to develop an entirely new game. In my opinion, SOE's actions werent just disgusting, they were CRIMINAL.
So stop telling us vets to move on. Our dream since we were kids waiting in line to see perhaps the greatest movie of all time in 1977 was a chance to live in that world. Star Wars Galaxies was much more than a game, it was a virtual world we could live in. SOE stole that dream and my money and laughed at us on national tv.
In my opinion the game would have been shutdown six months after release if SoE had not stepped in and purchased it. Honestly, what game in the history of online games has had to have a server merger in the first year after release other than maybe an EA MMORPG? I don't remember any major titles, maybe AC2.
I think this is a good move for the players that like and play the game. SoE realizes the potential of this game and how it can compete with AoC if it is re-developed properly, which I think will motivate them to accelerate the fixes and improvements. I like EQ2 but it can't compete with some of the newer stuff coming out and I don't think SoE has anything new in development other than EQ2 stuff, so this could breathe some life back into SoE.
I was pretty upset myself about what happened to SWG, but after returning recently to check things out it is a shame that the game was not released like it is now minus the iconic crap. If anything, Vanguard showed the MMOG market that you better have your "stuff" together before release or you will fail regardless of the hype and SWG showed the market that if you don't listen to your player base you will lose it regardless of the branding. Let's hope STO learns from this if it ever gets released.
So I guess my point is that I am glad SoE has it now rather than two years from now because I doubt they can make it any worse. We all know what to expect as far as changes, so if you have played EQ, EQ2 or SWG you either liked them or did not. I personally think they will WoW us...
Despite what many like to hear, SWG is actually picking up again. Alot of changes have been made to what was the NGE that you can't really call it the NGE anymore, although it's not the CU or Pre-Cu either. These chages seem to be going over pretty well with the SWG community, both old and new as the servers are seeing increases in populations, with a number of them actually back to CU era population numbers.
You can dwell on the past and bring up every peice of evidence you want showing how you got "screwed over", but you need to look at the present and see how things have changed. The team they have working on SWG now has gone a long way to lifting it back up again, listening & reacting to the players and communicating that it's quite possible they'll do the same with VG.