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Where is the Role-play on todays mmorpg's?
knives22
Member Posts: 375
Hey everyone, well the topic pretty much explains itself. Ive been noticing lately that many new mmorpg'ers just like to kill/and get the loot, and thats not how it should be if you role-play then, there is actually something that many of today mmorpg's are missing, something called "Fun" If you RP there is actually a "POINT TO THE STORY" for you to know/find out instead of killing monsters like crazy.If you mmorpg'ers keep going like this companies will start focusing on what the majority are going for right now and then what if there is no RP in mmorpg's?. The genre is SUPPOSED to be an online role-play, not a killl/loot craziness party. If you have any toughts fell free to reply.
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By the way, have you seen my sig?
I'd like to know where the actual RP is in current MMORPGs too. Good to know I'm not the only one that thinks few MMOs have any real RPG content, other than classes. Ha! Yeah, that makes a RPG.
MMORPG -- Where's the RP?
MMORPG -- Where's the RP?
How do you propose you tell a story and make it fun for tens of thousands of people, from all over the world, at varying points in their character's development who are all coming and going and wildly different times of day?
What you expect isn't ever going to be available to you in a Massively Multiplayer game. If you want good storytelling/roleplaying then find a good group of people and site down face-to-face and play.
Knives, if you are interested in EQ II, go check out their Role Playing forum on the Player Site. It seems there are a large number of honest to goodness Role Players banding together and trying to get the word out to ALL RP'ers to come and play on ONE RP server that Moorgard has stated will be available upon release.
Literally thousands of posts in there, sounds like the RP'ers are trying to carve a small slice of EQ II for themselves.
"Hey Yall! Watch this!!"
Grym Goblinsbane
(My son speaking to his Japanese Grandmother) " Sorry Obaba, I don't speak Japanese, I only speak human."
Yeah for sure, with Everquest II coming out, the best thing to do is to group together and take over a server. The roleplaying server , at first, will probably have all actual roleplayers, making it a more interesting server to me at least.
In games that have already been released for a while, there is hardly any chance of setting up a good roleplaying base for players. Thats why us roleplayers have to take over right from the start, and thats what theyre doing with Everquest II. Hopefully, there will be similar movements in WoW and every other upcoming MMORPG.
So ya, hope to see other roleplayers out there with me in EQII and other upcoming games.
Yes many of us have been complaining about RPing dying.
Honestly many games even offer a great environment for roleplaying eg SWG.When EQ was new majority roleplayed.
But it seems in every single mmorpg i played that after a few months or a year roleplaying just dies.
I like the fact that people are calling for a RP server on EQ2 because i will certainly go there and pray it does not die a painful death.
I tend to agree on this to some extent. I find it a bit dramatic to say that the RP element is totally missing. Before thinking about where it is you should first think what it exactly is? What constitutes roleplaying? Now I'm certain that every player in the world would answer this question differently. For example. I've never liked this type of roleplaying (in online games) where you totally masquerade yourself as your alter-ego and make it a bit theatrical by using 'ye olde english' and constantly making up new ways to show everyone that you can 'roleplay'.
I mean, isn't the fact that you are immersed in the game enough? Personally I think it's more important to play the game and have fun, not necessarily worry yourself with the pressure of roleplaying. Sure it can be fun but it really isn't meant to be that drastic in online games. If you really want to 'roleplay', heck, become an actor and/or start LARPing. It really makes much more sense in the 'real' world with 'real' people.
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A small bat
screamed out in fright
"Turn on the dark!
I'm afraid of the light"
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A small bat
screamed out in fright
"Turn on the dark!
I'm afraid of the light"
Wish is working hard on live story content. This will encourage roll playing.
Roll playing works best when everyone plays along, the live story element gets everyone involved to push the story along.
The big problem is that we all have different schedules and can't always be there for planned events, but if they work out a way to be part of the story at any time of the day or night Wish should be great for roll playing
Trying to roleplay in the current crop of MMOs is about as pointless as trying to roleplay in FF7.
Removing the nonroleplayers, and the obious difference between a fancy calculator, and a live GM from the equation, the biggest detriments to roleplaying are lack of permanence, and lack of meaningful character progression.
In your average pen and paper group, when you slaughter all the orcs, and save the village,
you are the one that did it, the hero. In an MMO, you're just one out of a few hundred thousand, and in 20 minutes, they'll be back. The problem with this is when you have 400k people, all wanting/trying to be the hero. Doesn't work very well.
As far as character progression, what do you get, aside from more levels, and gear upgrades. Not much.
In a pen and paper game, as your character progresses, you become famous/infamous, you attract the attention of powerful entities, etc. In an MMO, outside of whatever little story you've come up with for your character, there's nothing. You're basically the same as when you first started as far as the game world is concerned. To be fair, some games have tried to impliment factions as a stop gap fix for the lack of real character progression, and it comes off feeling as artificial as all hell. In your average D&D game, if I slaughter a bazillion orcs, I would have a reputation as Soandso the Orcslayer, and most likely orcs would pee themselves, and flee in terror at the mere hint that I was headed their way. Not so in MMOland, where killing a bazillion orcs means they attack me on site, which they probably did anyway, so it really doesn't mean anything, other than I spent too much time sitting on my arse, killing orcs.
I also wanted to touch on RP servers. Played on quite a few, and besides people speaking in really bad ren fair-esque old english, homoerotic elf cyber, and some anal rententives with tourette's syndrome screaming about how someone talking in OOC ruined their immersion, there isn't any discernable difference between an RP server, official or otherwise, and a regular server, in my not so humble opinion.
To make a long story short, if it's roleplaying you want, stick with pen and paper rpgs, unless you're looking to roleplay boredom, and disapointment.
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Odi profanum vulgus et arceo
Yes.
As an alternative, roleplay with your friends to your heart's content and ignore the rest of the people that aren't "in character" around you.
Hell, even most of the people with a backstory are bland and uninspired. I know it doesn't always come that easy, but jebus. If I had a nickel for every bio I saw in SWG that said 'parents killed by rebels/imperials, sold into slavery, killed master, joined the rebels/imperials to exact revenge' I'd have enough cash to fund my own MMO.
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Odi profanum vulgus et arceo
About good RP never being able to exist in a new MMORPG, absolutely, 100% incorrect. There are only a few games out there they I know of that are excellent MMORPG's (with emphasis on the RP part), and they are all text-based. I played Dragon Realms by Simutronics (play.net) for over 5 years, there are players there that have played much longer, usually because of the roleplaying element that can't be found elsewhere. There is no reason why such a good RP system could not be implemented in a 3d MMORPG, though, it just takes a very good and involved character development process that allows the character to continually get better in different areas and be different than other players (not just level 1-50, cookie cutter development). Focus on unending character development (no level caps, skill based system, with many non-combat skills) and you give people a reason and means to roleplay their character.
Unfortunately, most MMORPG developers nowadays think that the key to good RP is a huge number of NPC questing options. They're barking up the wrong tree.
Depends on your definition of character development. There's development of levels, skills stats. Then there's development of the character in a narrative sense. While you can grind out level and all that to your hearts content, I've yet to find a game that really allowed you to develop your character, outside of whatever story is in your head. Your actions in the game world have little or no consequence other than as a vehicle for getting more levels or gear. I can get that in any one of the single player rpgs out there, which usually have a much more engaging storyline, I might add. The only thing going for MMOs is the community, which is ironic, as I tend to avoid a good portion of said community, as they appear to have been lobotimized.
I agree with you on the text based mud. The very nature of the interface makes for a more imaginitve experience. The smaller population vs a 3d MMO also means that you'll find a better class of people, as any asshats will rapidly be weeded out. With a smaller number of people online the Imms can do more rp centric events, and the world can more easily be changed to reflect the actions of the players, thus making your actions within the game count. I play Trials of Ascension every so often, when I need a break, and it's very rp oriented. All the class guild positions are filled by players, and the gods are played by a group of hand picked volunteers. Everyone there is very friendly, and there isn't the immaturity you'd find in any of the 3D MMOs. Shame that doesn't translate over to the big leagues due to profit margins, RoI, and all that jazz. Not to mention the UO councilor lawsuit forever ruining the hope of any other company doing something like that for fear of getting sued.
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Odi profanum vulgus et arceo
You are talking about 2 completely different animals when you compare MUDs to MMOGs. MUDs inherently require a greater committment to imagination, since the entire game is text-based and thus does not titillate with lazy visuals. The type of gamer that is attracted to MUDs will typically be a stronger roleplayer.
These are not the same kinds of games, however. They do not reach the same audiences, and they are not based upon the same parameters. They loosely share an affiliation in that they are character-advancement games in an imaginary setting...and the comparison stops there. You can do things with text that simply isn't practical or even possible with graphics. Please consider the following:
"As you enter the room, the stench is unbearable. Water is dripping from the ceiling in a slow, melifluous fashion...at least, you think that's water. As you turn the corner, you notice a shape lumbering slowly, scratching itself and emitting grotesque sounds and smells. You realize that this is an orc captain of the Fukhgh faction, and it bears the scars of many battles. The orc sneers at you while it seems to be pondering its options: whether to flay you and then eat you, or eat you and then flay you. It looks like it's decided."
Now you go make that in a visual game and tell me how successful you can be in communicating the atmosphere.
Even further, for those of you who are roleplay purists at heart...what are you options in dealing with that orc? Kill? Subdue? Flee? In a game with thousands of players, with mechanical exploitation always a factor, you really can only offer so many options. But a sit-down, face-to-face roleplay experience is entirely up to the imagination of the GM and its players...and the essence of roleplaying comes to life.
You have to realize that a MMOG is just a huge machine. Within it there are boundaries and parameters you are confined to...and they are broad, because the game must appeal to a broad base of players. The game must persist, and players seem to have a great aversion to one-time content...the idea that your neighbor may have the Orclayer Axe of Doom and you can never get it causes a major uproar amongst many.
You have the right to make the game's experience fit within the context of your own imagination, of course. You can find like-minded people who will share your affinity for imaginative reactions, and synthesize your own roleplay experience. But you are fooling youself if you think that every other player in the game shares your own vision of roleplaying, of fun, and of the context of their own character in the same world. You are arrogant and rude if you insist on making everone else play the way you think is right. ("You" is not meant to mean any specific person in this post...but you know who you are)
Aside from text based games I dont think any of the current crop of online games is all that solid with roleplaying.
I have found an occasional Neverwinter Nights server that is running 24/7 with a strong roleplay community but it doesnt quite rise to the Massive Multiplayer category.
The key to the roleplaying experience is to find a guild or network of guilds that is really into roleplaying. I have seen several over the years on EQ that maintained immersive roleplaying for years. These folks more or less ignored the raid/epic item/loot mentality and developed thier own game w/in a game. Pretty impressive when you see it done right.
Were I looking for the roleplay experience in say EQ..I would troll the various server boards and try to make a list of guilds that appear to be involved in roleplaying--most of them would have websites...I would focus on creating a char. there and entering thier guild.
Unfortunately, at least with the current games on the market I dont think you will find a massive, thriving roleplay community.
Wispas
"Hell, even most of the people with a backstory are bland and uninspired. I know it doesn't always come that easy, but jebus. If I had a nickel for every bio I saw in SWG that said 'parents killed by rebels/imperials, sold into slavery, killed master, joined the rebels/imperials to exact revenge' I'd have enough cash to fund my own MMO." -Coldmeat
LOL!
I hear you on that too! I tried so hard to RP in SWG that it drove me insane! Does everyone have to have dead parents? Does everyone have to have some sort of gross wrong done to them to be on a faction? Does being an Imperial mean automatically that you are evil? (the answer to all of these is in fact NO. Big shock, I know.)
I try to roleplay and I actually got a little started the other night then the other person that I was roleplaying with actually started commenting on how good my RP skills were and how well I seemed to know my charactor. THere went the RP out the window.
I like to RP but when others around you catn, wont, dont know how to then it makes it difficult to stay in charactor.
Bildgerat LiL'Pirate
Bildgerat LiL'Pirate
I happily disagree with you, it IS SUPPOSED to be an ONLINE ROLE-PLAYING GAME, not a kill/loot party. All this new mmorpg'ers are going to ruin rpp forever =.. i cant tell.. I mean what fun is there in killing the same monster 4230-957029375029375 times to get that item you want for no-purpose at all? just to have it. If you rp you actually have a Purpose to play the game..
I miss DAoC
I think the easiest conclusion is this. Most actual roleplayers on mmorpgs probably have experienced the old pen & paper D&D or some other actual RPG that you must roleplay in for the game to succeed. While there may still be cells of p&p gamers out there it is not as popular today.
Many mmorpg gamers are now young kids (meaning 13+) and I am an old school gamer. We are on two different levels. Now I am not saying this is true for everyone, but it seems to be more fitting. When I played UO when it first came out, I never played with anyone that didn't RP, everyone did (I played on Chesapeake for 3 years). After a break from UO I went to AC where people still RPed a bit, and when that game aged it went downhill and no one RPed.
Peeps don't even RP on the RP servers anymore. It's partly the developers fault. Sure they add some content, but they also add the uber loot. MMORPGs now are not striving for RPing, they strive to get the phatest loot and to see who can reach endgame the fastest.
edit: To add, I am not preaching what gameplay is better, but hell, if you are playing an mmorpg and there is an RP server, stay the hell off of it if you aren't going to RP.
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33.333333333333336% of me is a huge nerd! How about you?
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You are right that text-based requires a lot more commitment to imagination and thus is usually a better for roleplaying. However, a lot more can be done for 3d MMORPGs to make them a better tool for good RP'ing. What I pointed out in my first post is character development because I believe this is key for enabling good roleplaying. For example, in Dragon Realms (text MUD), the character development is completely skill based. In other words, you practice healing, your healing skill goes up, you practice fighting with a dagger, your skill with a dagger goes up, and on, for 100's of skills (of which there is no cap). This allows for roleplay because even by leveling, you are still, maybe even inadvertantly, roleplaying a character. Lets say you're a bard, you raise your level by raising your skill with musical instruments, so you spend your time leveling playing your music to groups of PC's gathered at their guildhalls. Even though you are leveling, you are ROLEPLAYING a bard. If you're a thief, you raise your skill by stealing from NPCs and PCs, by doing so, you are roleplaying a thief. You can roleplay a malicous theif by stealing from healers, or easy prey. You may roleplay a more respectable theif by limiting your stealing to those who have an overabundance of wealth. These are just a few examples.
My point is that roleplaying is enhanced and almost required with the help of well thought out game mechanics. Now lets try the same thing in EQ, or any other 3d MMORPG. The only difference between your classes is your varied COMBAT abilities. No matter what kind of class you play, you will still be forced to spend most of your time in combat, doing the exact same thing as everybody else. The only difference is the amount of damage you do and how you do it. And doing NPC quests which nobody sees but you (this does nothing for social roleplaying). If you want to roleplay, the only real game mechanic that is there to help you is the chat window and emotes. The only thing you get out of roleplaying is your own personal gratification. You are not rewarded or encouraged by the game in any way to do so.
Games that emphasize the "endgame" are espescially bad because they essentially say character development is pointless and it's just a hurdle you must overcome to get into the real game.
As far as communicating atmosphere, graphical games can most definitely convey good atmosphere, why do you think almost all movies use computer generated graphics nowadays? Nobody will argue that you can do more with your imagination (which is why so many people say books are better than the movies that are made after them). But the gap is narrowing. The Lord of the Rings trilogy is the prime example.
EDIT: my own opinions only, and not saying i am correct etc, also i hope i havent repeated myself or offended anyone, but by the end of the post i was kinda lost
There is a distinct lack or roleplaying in almost every single MMORPG i have ever played. And those that try to add roleplay simply add character interaction and not roleplay.
For example in SWG you have to go and watch a dancer to recover your mental health (Whatever the SWG word for that is). But the only way to earn xp is to go out and kill stuff. Or if your a dancer to dance etc.
There lies your main problem, if you want to advance your character you have to do one thing over and over and over again. Yes i agree that if i am a dancer i spend most of my time dancing, but other things i do in life will help with my dancing. I may travel the world and experience exotic dancers from other cultures, i may elnlist the help of a mage to allow me to know how a man thinks and thus know exactly how to best gyrate my hips for him etc etc.
These things should be available to do in games, and they should be profitable and worthwhile.
Similarly for a fighter, killing orc after orc should eventually make the orcs either scared of me, or to hate me. Probably they will hate me and send a small army to kill me, when i then defeat this army they will be scared of me and avoid me wherever possible. But once i reach this status i should be part of a story where i am enlisted to try and halt an orc invasion, or to push them back out of human territory etc etc. Then several people who are feared by the orcs will have to work together to combat the orcs.
This could mean simply charging in and killing them all, it could mean searching for a sacred stick which the orcs think makes me the king so i can simply command them to go away. Or i could search for the axe of orc-slaying, so they simply will flee when they see me. or i could try and have one forged. That quest would have several outcomes, and rewards and each route i take would help me with my character.
This however is mainly combat oriented xp, but after i have done this i want to go into the tavern and relax with a pint of mead and tell my tale while eating a roast cows leg, if i go into the tavern and sit down i could have to recite my tale to an npc etc, being rewarded for exagerating parts while still making it beleivable. This means when i go into a tavern, there will be somebody in there with an interesting tale to hear and listen to. And i should gain small experience and hints from listening to this tale. Then i would go to the smithy and ask him to fix my axe. He would look at it and say sorry i cant fix magic axes, i would then ask if i could use his forge to fix it myself, and get further xp from fixing my axe, and also risk breaking it however.
i firmly beleive that at the beginning you should have to pick a role for your character, ie fighter: rogue: archer: etc etc. And depending on that you will get a set of skills and stats to increase as you progress.
These stats will cover everything that you could possibly want to do, and each stat would increase as you use it. This would include wood cutting, fighting, drinking, healing, spells etc etc. And also my fears.
Fears would develop throughout the game, if i constantly get killed by wolves i will learn to fear them, meaning i have to fight them at a disadvantage, but when i overcome my fear i would be rewarded.
Each character you pick would have a variety of different missions, including the one such as above which could be triggered when x amount of people reach a certain level etc. in this case maybe when you have 10 orc-slayers. And there should be lots of different ways of earning experience, not just fighting.
People would need to be encouraged to talk to one another, and classes would have to rely on one-another in certain situations.
For example a thief could easily assasinate an orc chieftan if he was alone, but would need fighter backup in case he was caught.
Roleplaying is not just talking in character to one another, if all you can do is kill then there is no role playing, you are just talking funny to one another. The MMORPGs on the market at the moment offer no real chance to roleplay as they are just kill fests with treasure. They could in fact be a complete different genre, because although many people like games like this they are not RPG's, just MMOKLG's (massively multiplayer killing and looting games).
I shoudl pick a character as the outset, i should know his every strength and weakness through an in depth list of stats etc. And depending on my character and my actions in the game enemies will learn to respond different to me.
Ie again if i kill a thousand orcs they may learn to respect my strength, and may even talk to me rather than simply killing me. This would be acheivable because the mobs and NPC's would have a society which goes on in the background and can be discovered through the correct sequence of actions.
These societies should be destroyable, for example say at the start there are going to be 15000 orcs, the orcs would breed at a rate of say 150 per day (15000 * .01 - the breeding rate of the species). This means if more than 150 orcs are killed each day the species will go into decline, and they could eventually be wiped out completely, certainly they are likely to be wiped out from certain area's, though they may expand into others. This would happen with all races, and they would expand into each others territories when the game would calculate the effects of a battle for supremacy, meaning the enemies may wipe each other out without human intervention.
I have lots more to say on this subject, but i have written so much i am getting confused
, so i am going to leave it here for now, with one more thing to say.
The above concept is not impossible to add into a game, it is difficult, expensive and challenging, but entirely based on mathematics which i can even work out, so a computer should have no problems. The reason games like this are not produced is because people are quite happy to buy what is out there at the moment and there is no need for a game like this. One day there will be, and my message to devs is "build it and they will come" (field of dreams).
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