Does my game exist?

trapdoor · June 2007

I played WoW the longest, although it wasn't the first game I played. I liked Earth and Beyond but I was cut short before I got too into it :S I'm back to playing Toontown because It's meant for the whole family, therefore it's easy enough to keep the attention of little kids ... and my wife plays it so there's someone to partner with when needed.

Anyway. I'll leave the boring "background" for the end if you still want to read where I'm coming from. My question? I'm looking for the following qualities in an MMO, which current ones match them best?

ENDGAME: Plenty of endgame content. Not just content either, but stuff that continue to be new.
NOGRINDING: Grinding GONE! I hate the "go kill 2000 of these" quests.
NODELIVERY: I am no delivery boy! Send your item through the mail, don't get me to deliver it, then return with their response.
CASUALFRIENDLY: The game is friendly to casual players. No dungeons (or at least no requirement to go in it) that take several hours to complete. Or make it so it could be done in stages... For example. Attack from point A to point F (where F is the boss). At each "checkpoint" you can disband and reform a new group with other players in that area. The whole run would take several hours, but since it's broken up into smaller chunks, someone who has to go, won't mess up the chance for the rest of them, nor will it require the casual player to avoid those just because they don't have the time.
PLYRCONTENT: Player created content or an environment that can be altered by players... example. An orc town becomes a human town after a large battle. (bad example but it conveys the idea well)
SHEEPGOLD: (minor) environment immersion is well done.. Why would sheep drop gold? Unless that guy was ******* **** the *** ***** **** and **** ********* last night.
NOHERO: (minor) Am I the only hero in the game? Why does Jimbo keep needing to be given the antidote to the poison every time I create a new character. Isn't it a persistent world? (NOTE: this would probably only be met after player created content is met)
WASD: (minor) I don't like the click to move style. I want to use the arrows or WASD for moving if possible.
LITTLEGUY: (minor) It would be nice if the higher level players still needed to mingle with the lower level ones. Like make the super hard dungeons' entrance in low level areas. It makes for us casual players to be come lonely once the hardcore players have all left for harder zones.
SWITCHSERVER: (minor) It would be nice to be able to switch servers. Especially if there are not enough people at my level on the server i'm currently on. It should be no cost and part of the whole "structure" where it's a simple press a button to do it myself kind of thing.

If you have any suggestions, use the capitol key words and say if they fit that or not. I know the list is big and I don't expect any game to fit them all, but I would like to know which ones fit it the best.

Background:
I've tried various other betas and demos, such as Sword of the New World, LastChaos, EVE, Ryzom... but none captured that something that would keep me playing for much longer. I'm a true casual gamer, after 1.5 years of playing WoW on and off, i got my highest Paladin to lvl 40 on a PvP server. Might I remind everyone i'm a casual gamer, I usually go solo and I play off and on with times not playing for several weeks at a time. It had most of what I like but what threw me off was what waited for me at the end (if i ever reached 60 ... now 70). Endless raiding or battlegrounds. Not too exciting doing the same thing over and over. If I wanted that, i'd play Americas Army. It didn't help that by the time I got back into the game after a long time of not playing, almost everyone who played regularly on my server was already at 60 and there were not many people to socialize with that were my own level. It would have been nice to transfer my player to any server I wanted at no cost. *cough* toontown *cough* does it. Heck, you can switch servers while playing with the character.

After playing enough games, I've come to the conclusion that to get what I want, I'd have to make it myself. I'm at least 10 years away from even seriously considering it (as I have to make several other successful games first), but I only come up with concepts cause I'm bored with what exists already. Too bad someone with bundles of money and talented developers wasn't interested in my idea. (It's a fantasy, I know, which is why I say "too bad" instead of actually pleading for it).

Anyway. I noticed that I'm starting to ramble so I better end it now.

Crose · June 2007

I don't believe there's any game that meets all those requirements. A couple of the requirements, I don't think ANY game meets. There will always be repetition in MMORPG's. You can't expect quests to be different for every character you make. You can make a character of a different race so that your lower levels have new quests for you in a different zone, but you'll eventually repeat some content. The same for end-game content. Devs can only come out with new content so fast, and players WILL always be faster at beating that content. Something like what AoC or Darkfall offer with city building may be the closest you'll get to what you want.

There will also always be "Kill this many of these things and come back" quests, amongst others. I believe both AoC and WAR will have them, although WAR is changing it. For example, if you kill 10 rats and then find a quest giver that asks you to kill 10 rats, he'll recognize that you've already done it and you won't have to kill 10 more.

I wish there was a game like you're describing, but there really isn't. Maybe a few years down the line. If you really want to try something new, download the 14 day City of Heroes trial. IMO it's the best match to what you want.

trapdoor · June 2007

Yeah i sort of realize it's more of a wish list than anything else. But new 'helpers' like the said mentioned recognition of killing 10 rats is definitely a step in the right direction.

ShneakyOne · June 2007

Ultima Online on UO Gamers Hybrid. Look it up on google. That has everything you mentioned except the WASD keys. It's a 2D game.... well... birds eye view.... but still the game is everything else you mentioned

. However, it's a much more hardcore PvP environment, so I dunno if you'd like that. If not, then Ultima Online on the official OSI shards. Completely player friendly, with everything you described. Not a huge time sink, but a persistent world with 0 questing involved. Since you haven't played it before, from what I can tell, you won't be pissed at what they made the game into. It has a bad habit of getting rid of players that were Die-Hard fans and PvPers, and caters to players that are like you, which isn't a bad thing.

You'd definitely enjoy it. The movement will take a LITTLE getting used to, but everything else is perfect. It's not much different than games you are used to, since UO has tried to move towards that type of game.

Horpse · June 2007

closest one i can think of is WAR, which satisfies 4 out of 5 of your major requirements.

1) 25 years of warhammer content would make their way to the so called "endgame".

2) No explicit PvE grinding since experience is gained from RvR (PvP).

3) There are no explicit delivery quests/missions. Their "Kill Collector" quests are all surprises which only serves to reward the player without the player's prior knowledge of what to kill.

4) Definitely casual friendly since players gain most experience from PvP. This also means no PvE botters and afkers.

5) Unfortunately, for player created content, its more for Age of Conan and EVE. (eg city building / player owned space stations)

Player created content has its pros and cons. Usually the penalty is much more severe. (eg what happens if you happen to lose a

city you have helped to build for over a year?) This is analgous to player owned space stations in EVE.

Shadow4482 · June 2007

Originally posted by trapdoor

ENDGAME: Plenty of endgame content. Not just content either, but stuff that continue to be new.
NOGRINDING: Grinding GONE! I hate the "go kill 2000 of these" quests.
NODELIVERY: I am no delivery boy! Send your item through the mail, don't get me to deliver it, then return with their response.
CASUALFRIENDLY: The game is friendly to casual players. No dungeons (or at least no requirement to go in it) that take several hours to complete. Or make it so it could be done in stages... For example. Attack from point A to point F (where F is the boss). At each "checkpoint" you can disband and reform a new group with other players in that area. The whole run would take several hours, but since it's broken up into smaller chunks, someone who has to go, won't mess up the chance for the rest of them, nor will it require the casual player to avoid those just because they don't have the time.
PLYRCONTENT: Player created content or an environment that can be altered by players... example. An orc town becomes a human town after a large battle. (bad example but it conveys the idea well)
SHEEPGOLD: (minor) environment immersion is well done.. Why would sheep drop gold? Unless that guy was ******* **** the *** ***** **** and **** ********* last night.
NOHERO: (minor) Am I the only hero in the game? Why does Jimbo keep needing to be given the antidote to the poison every time I create a new character. Isn't it a persistent world? (NOTE: this would probably only be met after player created content is met)
WASD: (minor) I don't like the click to move style. I want to use the arrows or WASD for moving if possible.
LITTLEGUY: (minor) It would be nice if the higher level players still needed to mingle with the lower level ones. Like make the super hard dungeons' entrance in low level areas. It makes for us casual players to be come lonely once the hardcore players have all left for harder zones.
SWITCHSERVER: (minor) It would be nice to be able to switch servers. Especially if there are not enough people at my level on the server i'm currently on. It should be no cost and part of the whole "structure" where it's a simple press a button to do it myself kind of thing.

lol

Lasastard · June 2007

Well, first let me say that I agree that such a game does not exist.

But - now my advice:

From my experience, if you are looking for a game with a very good endgame, than you may want to check out DAoC. I know, I know - its not all that new and shiny anymore. Still, the RvR-system will keep you busy for years, basically. (RvR = Realm vs Realm - more infos on the related websites).

You can raid and defend keeps, which has an influence on your guild and your realm - and is plainly a lot of fun. Ballistas, catapults, boiling oil, and so on. Then there are group-vs-group fights (admittably, a bit of an elitist's game), personal and realm-wide RVR missions ("Risk"-like stuff like conquer all keeps of your enemy). And if you should ever get tiered of RvR, there is also a lot of PvM stuff to explore - instanced dungeons, large raid dungeons (and no, you dont have to go there).

As a big plus, you dont have to wait for the RvR until you hit level 50 (max), but can join one of the level specific battle grounds along the way (which are sort of a training ground for the "real" thing - less keeps, smaller maps, etc).

DAoC also offers a huge selection of (more or less) unique classes, and the overall requirenments for a player to get RvR ready have been greatly reduced over the years.

However, a word of warning - as in most games that have been around for a while, you will not find a whole lot of people to group with while leveling up. Not saying that there are none, but just not as many as you would fine in a new game.

Also, since the RvR endgame involves a constant advancement of your characters abilities (realm point,s earned from killed enemy players and completing RvR missions etc), you will find yourself very far down in the food chain. Again, joining a friendly guild helps - same goes for the leveling. (and I did not tell you this, but it may be easiest for you to simply buy a level 50 char with a low realm rank...if you are just in it for the RvR, not the level grind...but sssshh, people dont like to hear that and its not exactly allowed by Mythic either).

Anyhow, good luck with finding your perfect game!

trapdoor · June 2007

I guess I'm just looking for a game that is fun.
And grinding, super long raids, repetitious raids (cause of said reasons), and boredom for endgame content, I don't find fun.

So long as its entertaining at all levels, heck even if they masked grinding to something that was entertaining like defending from an invasion (the mechanics could be that it stops after you kill 100 mobs...) that'd be cool.

I may try DAoC as there's a 14 day trial, but if it's not friendly to newcomers and everyone is already established, I may just wait for WAR. Or see if I can get on the beta.

BTW, I had no expectation that any game would meet all of my requirements, I just wanted the best fit.

Oh... and thanks for the suggestions.

Souvec · June 2007

Originally posted by ShneakyOne

Ultima Online on UO Gamers Hybrid. Look it up on google. That has everything you mentioned except the WASD keys. It's a 2D game.... well... birds eye view.... but still the game is everything else you mentioned . However, it's a much more hardcore PvP environment, so I dunno if you'd like that. If not, then Ultima Online on the official OSI shards. Completely player friendly, with everything you described. Not a huge time sink, but a persistent world with 0 questing involved. Since you haven't played it before, from what I can tell, you won't be pissed at what they made the game into. It has a bad habit of getting rid of players that were Die-Hard fans and PvPers, and caters to players that are like you, which isn't a bad thing.

You'd definitely enjoy it. The movement will take a LITTLE getting used to, but everything else is perfect. It's not much different than games you are used to, since UO has tried to move towards that type of game.

According to what the OP posted ShneakyOne is correct. UO is probably the only one that comes remotely close to cover a majority of your requests. There are other games that may fit for one or two of what you listed, but over UO would be the overall winner.

JackBauer24 · June 2007

Originally posted by Crose

I don't believe there's any game that meets all those requirements. A couple of the requirements, I don't think ANY game meets. There will always be repetition in MMORPG's. You can't expect quests to be different for every character you make.

Actually in Gods and Heroes I am pretty sure that you can be a Gladiator and have a different quest from the same guy if you were a Priest.

It only works in pairs though like for example:

Soldiers and Gladiators in the start of the game have to escape a different route than a Scout or another profession.

ssnautilus · June 2007

NOGRINDING: Grinding GONE! I hate the "go kill 2000 of these" quests.
NODELIVERY: I am no delivery boy! Send your item through the mail, don't get me to deliver it, then return with their response.
CASUALFRIENDLY: The game is friendly to casual players. No dungeons (or at least no requirement to go in it) that take several hours to complete. Or make it so it could be done in stages... For example. Attack from point A to point F (where F is the boss). At each "checkpoint" you can disband and reform a new group with other players in that area. The whole run would take several hours, but since it's broken up into smaller chunks, someone who has to go, won't mess up the chance for the rest of them, nor will it require the casual player to avoid those just because they don't have the time.
PLYRCONTENT: Player created content or an environment that can be altered by players... example. An orc town becomes a human town after a large battle. (bad example but it conveys the idea well)
SHEEPGOLD: (minor) environment immersion is well done.. Why would sheep drop gold? Unless that guy was ******* **** the *** ***** **** and **** ********* last night.
NOHERO: (minor) Am I the only hero in the game? Why does Jimbo keep needing to be given the antidote to the poison every time I create a new character. Isn't it a persistent world? (NOTE: this would probably only be met after player created content is met)
WASD: (minor) I don't like the click to move style. I want to use the arrows or WASD for moving if possible.
LITTLEGUY: (minor) It would be nice if the higher level players still needed to mingle with the lower level ones. Like make the super hard dungeons' entrance in low level areas. It makes for us casual players to be come lonely once the hardcore players have all left for harder zones.
SWITCHSERVER: (minor) It would be nice to be able to switch servers. Especially if there are not enough people at my level on the server i'm currently on. It should be no cost and part of the whole "structure" where it's a simple press a button to do it myself kind of thing.

Try Guild Wars. Superb game. Can have unlimited sub-classes and switch between them at will (once you unlock them). Unlimited free respeccing - unlimited builds - play as you like when you like.

NOHERO: That is available for PvP once unlocked. All PvE needs to be redone with each char. However ALL unlocked PvE skills are available to Heroes (heroes are npc-characters you can take along - fully customizable and equippable).

SHEEPGOLD: No sheep I know in the game that drop gold - some cows might. :P

WASD: Choice of movement via click AND keys. Fully configurable. And fully configurable/scalable UI as well.

PLYRCONTENT: With FACTIONS you can have towns switch sides - also open up secret areas (huge) not on maps available only to the faction that owns certain key points. If you seeking FULLY MUSH-type player created content - then try Saga Of Ryzom instead - bit I dont recommend that one personally.

Lonely nights: Take along henchmen (hirelings) or your own HEROES (see above). No need for annoying or chaotic players to be on team. Smart AI.

Recommended is that you play Guild Wars in SEQUENCE - or at the very least buy the First chapter PROPHECIES first. It will set the story - mood - and atmosphere straight. The atmosphere is amazingly gorgeous with spectacular music - very few games can match that.

Best of all - its a free game for life. Commhnity is as bad as WoW mostly gold farmers - but teams are very easy - PvP/PvE are all fantastic.

All marked in green above are available ingame.

Good luck.

butters88 · June 2007

I suggest u try WAR when it releases. Meets most of your requirements.

retrospectic · June 2007

Originally posted by trapdoor

ENDGAME: Plenty of endgame content. Not just content either, but stuff that continue to be new.

I would consider "stuff that continue to be new" more content. I'm assume you mean content that isn't raids, rep grinds, and dungeons. I understand this, and a lot of games have tradeskills and pvp matches that try to give high level players an alternative route.

NOGRINDING: Grinding GONE! I hate the "go kill 2000 of these" quests.

No grinding? This sounds more like a request to stop kill quests. Although understandable I would rather see an alternative. What do you suggest as a way to encourage people to level? What quests would you like? I've always favored kill quests over mindless grinding. Although it is really similar I'd rather have a quest to kill 20 rabbits than just kill 20 rabbits because they are there and I need exp.

NODELIVERY: I am no delivery boy! Send your item through the mail, don't get me to deliver it, then return with their response.

I agree here. I am not a big fan of delivery quests unless they show me a new area/town/camp. When a quest continues to send me back and forth I become tired and the content becomes boring. A good way to tell you have had enough is when you can spot where to go without reading the whole quest.

CASUALFRIENDLY: The game is friendly to casual players. No dungeons (or at least no requirement to go in it) that take several hours to complete. Or make it so it could be done in stages... For example. Attack from point A to point F (where F is the boss). At each "checkpoint" you can disband and reform a new group with other players in that area. The whole run would take several hours, but since it's broken up into smaller chunks, someone who has to go, won't mess up the chance for the rest of them, nor will it require the casual player to avoid those just because they don't have the time.

This system has been partially attempted in World of Warcraft. For example, the dungeon Mara has a key which comes from an in-dungeon quest. The key allows players to explore the dungeon from a different starting point. They call this "Mana Princess". I think it would be a great idea, but the loot would be scaled down. Loot has a risk associated with it. If you take out the risk of the whole dungeon the loot should be scaled down. Perhaps allow an "easy" setting on a dungeon that gives less loot.

One thing you mention here is time. As a casual player you must accept that games such as WoW favor the player who plays more often. Sadly one of the ways it favors players who play longer is better gear. If you really want the loot you have to make a solid commitment to play a whole dungeon multiple times.

Although I agree that check points would be interesting I don't think they are needed in every dungeon. WoW, for example, has gone to great lengths to shorten the time players are inside of a 5man. Compare BRD to Slave Pens.

PLYRCONTENT: Player created content or an environment that can be altered by players... example. An orc town becomes a human town after a large battle. (bad example but it conveys the idea well)

I've only played a few games that change due to player participation. A lot of games have a smaller version of this. From my experience a lot of player content is controlled by hardcore gamers and therefore isn't fun for the casual you seem to want a lot of stuff for.

SHEEPGOLD: (minor) environment immersion is well done.. Why would sheep drop gold? Unless that guy was ******* **** the *** ***** **** and **** ********* last night.

Allowing non-humanoid creatures to drop treasure was a great improvement to WoW. The only thing that happens when you restrict loot to mob types is force players to farm over less area. Grinding is even more of a chore when ______ can't drop gold/weapons because it happens to be a goat.

NOHERO: (minor) Am I the only hero in the game? Why does Jimbo keep needing to be given the antidote to the poison every time I create a new character. Isn't it a persistent world? (NOTE: this would probably only be met after player created content is met)

The problem is that players who create new alts shouldn't drive content. Although I see what you are saying I can't agree because some people make 100 alts while other have 2. If you want a new experience you have to understand that static quests allow the developers to focus on other aspects (dungeons, raids, PvP) instead of churning out 1200 newbie quests that are all variations of giving Jimbo the antidote.

WASD: (minor) I don't like the click to move style. I want to use the arrows or WASD for moving if possible.

Most games allow for configuration of the keyboard for movement. A lot of games that have click to move are also crappy so player beware.

LITTLEGUY: (minor) It would be nice if the higher level players still needed to mingle with the lower level ones. Like make the super hard dungeons' entrance in low level areas. It makes for us casual players to be come lonely once the hardcore players have all left for harder zones.

A lot of Asian grindfests have inacted systems which give new players more experience for grouping with higher level players. Also I think City of Heroes has a side-kick system which boosts the low level player up while he is grouped with a high level player. This allows new players to experience higher level content without the grind.

SWITCHSERVER: (minor) It would be nice to be able to switch servers. Especially if there are not enough people at my level on the server i'm currently on. It should be no cost and part of the whole "structure" where it's a simple press a button to do it myself kind of thing.

That allows players to do horrible things and flee. I like the idea of having a server permanence. It flows a lot more into the persistant world idea you spoke about. If you want player content you will not want player's able to demolish buildings or create stupid structures or other griefer stuff and then flee to a safer server and repeat.

Clea · June 2007

I've wanted to ask the same question myself, but could never sum up everything I wanted in a game, you have done so very nicely.

I am, what you could call a hard core casual gamer. I know that makes no since, but when I play, I really play, meaning I really get into it, sometimes spending way to much time online, then I don't want to play for weeks, or even months at a time, with WoW I just shut off my account. Anywho, not every thing you said I am also looking for, beings I am a solo by for the most part, I really don't care to interact with other characters, but I do like the CASUALFRIENDLY that you mentioned, I don't like the idea of having to do large raids, that take exact planing and timeing, with a lot of people that takes a long time. I also don't really care what server I am on, unless there are people I know from real life that play, but I do think the the price to transfer is a bit much.

I did really agree on the WASD, I have tried out a few of the newer games, and it always seem that I find the ones that are mouse movement, and it just bugs me. I mean then again I was only downloading and trying the ones that were free, but still, it was just my luck. I never even thought of, well never thought to ask for anyways, SHEEPGOLD, I never got that, I mean why would a sheep or a wolf, or any other weird little animal thing, have money. (I always found it really interesting in WoW, finding rabbit meat on wolfs.) I mean yeah, like you said, it's just something minor, but come on, what the hell, do I really want to know what is on these Devs minds when they make this stuff.

I am really debating on, the PLRCONTENT, when I first read it, I got what you meant, and it sounded awesome, but after reading that other post, about spending a year on something, just to lose it, sounds horible, but still it would make the game interesting. What I think, I know I'm not going to know how to explain this right, but it would kewl to have the plycontent, but not have it to where it's only a part of the game, kind of like I remember Battle Grounds in WoW (I haven't played in BG since the expantion, so I don't know how it works now). What I mean, like you go into an area where you are in charge of different, say bases for example, and you can lose or gain bases depending on how you play, but if you don't want to to that, you leave, and go back to the basic game. I know, probably doesn't make any since.

My all time favorite that you suggested is NOHERO! That one I have been thinking off since I first started playing EQ. I mean I know I could just play a different race, or with some games, a different class, but I think in some since it would be awesome to have a MMORPG with a storyline that progressed like that (kinda like an RPG) with out the same quests being repeted my the same low levels, over and over again. Then again, I also don't, cause without repeatable quest, it would really work if one person got the quest, no one else could ever do that quest, and I already don't like the fact that there are limited time quest, that I always seem to miss. Maybe it's just me, but I ldon't like the idea that a quest is no long available to me, I can understand if it was never available (like WoW, horde and allience quests differ). I mean I guess they could make it to were that same guy always had a different quest, for every different person that came to him, but I am preaty sure that would cause an endless quests problem, and would be... improbable (since nothing is impossible) Or I guess it could be a looping cycle, like there are "five" different starting quests from this one guy, and depending on when you talk to him depends on what you get... I don't know, I'm just pulling things out my now.

Well I have said all of this, and I don't even have an answer to your question. Lets face it,if I did, I would probably be hooked on that game, and unable to quit playing long enough to even chack the forums, but since I'm here, and not from lack of sleep, might as well give you my speak my mind. I am truely sorry that I can't help, the best advise I can give, is you can always do what I was doing, just find free MMO's, not just free monthly but free to download, and try them. Honestly, I was preaty much disapointed, I mean it kept me intertained for a time, but eventally I just got tired of... well something, and moved on.

Another good website, in which I believe I heard about from ths one, is onrpg.com, maybe they can help some. Also, I wanted to ask, do you have any consoles? Or have you ever tried just playing RPG's? I mean I know that RPG's have a end, but they can sometimes be fun for a bit. There is also, only on the PS2 console, Dot.Hack, it's basicly an RPG, about a MMORPG called The World. As a hope for the future, I plan to go to school to become a dev, sure I wont be going untill next year, then it will take me about four years to complete my degree, and who know's how long before I start work and get good (if I do) but it's something aint it.

Lastly, for thinking up such an awesome set of "rules" for a MMORPG

retrospectic · June 2007

Originally posted by Clea

You should check out the post above yours. There are some things in there that explain things like sheepgold.

retrospectic · June 2007

Oh and you find rabbit meat on wolves because wolves run after and kill rabbits in-game.

Clea · June 2007

Yes, I started my post before that one was posted, yes it takes me a long time to do anything, frequient AFKer.

I actally agree with a lot of what he said.

And yeah, I figured that's why wolfs have rabbit meat on them, I wasn't saying it was a bad thing, I really do find it interesting.

trapdoor · June 2007

Originally posted by retrospectic
My original post (or previous)

ENDGAME: Plenty of endgame content. Not just content either, but stuff that continue to be new.
PLYRCONTENT: Player created content or an environment that can be altered by players.
I've only played a few games that change due to player participation. A lot of games have a smaller version of this. From my experience a lot of player content is controlled by hardcore gamers and therefore isn't fun for the casual you seem to want a lot of stuff for.

I think my thoughts on always new Endgame stuff and player created content to go hand in hand. And when I mention player created content, it's in my mind, more or less, ... ok it's complex. Things like creating your own dungeons, (with an appropriate reward system to encourage good ones), game altering effects, like large wars obliterating towns, taking over of towns, but not limited to just those. It's all I think of for now. I guess the best example of this could be EVE with space stations. In my mind though it looks a little different than what I can explain. I was intrigued when I heard WoW might have some areas that are not instances, to be controlled by the Horde or Alliance. They can fight over etc.
I guess my idea is that assuming the community has an even spread of morons on all the servers, a player content driven game would be a different experience on all servers. I also find it hard to explain as I have been coming up with the concept for two MMO's (just a hobby that I might want to pursue as a goal in a decade or so). So my wants and my ideas are kind of getting mixed up there.

NOGRINDING: Grinding GONE! I hate the "go kill 2000 of these" quests.
No grinding? This sounds more like a request to stop kill quests....What do you suggest as a way to encourage people to level? What quests would you like? I've always favored kill quests over mindless grinding....

To go with WoW on this one, while I was never active enough to do this, getting enough awards and then turning them in for a reward was ok. Cause I could just not do the task altogether. The guy was there and if I interacted with him, he'd just say, you don't have enough. I know I could just not do the quest, but sometimes you couldn't avoid it. What would be a great alternative is to just have to kill the boss... but to get to the boss, you have to kill all his minions. Sort of a sneaky way to have the person thinking "jeez. I have to kill 200 of these things..."
OH! while i'm on my soap box, I sort of tie this peeve of mine in with grinding a lot, objects that don't drop on every monster. Let me explain. Some always drop as they should, like the head of the boss (again with the NOHERO... why if in a party, 5 heads now exist... but anyway.). Other things like the staff of a Shaman. I had to fight about 20 or so shaman until one dropped. I can also understand that not every shaman may have a staff, but I should at least be able to visually tell if he's walking with a stick or not. Every game I know does that. It's bloody annoying.
Off the soap box now. I think the only solution to no grinding / kill quests, would be to radically change the purpose of the game. Quests are few, large time investing (not necessarily requiring long sessions) and usually chained with a nice reward at the end. But the purpose would focus on something else, like advancing the society / town while defending it from attackers. helping piece together the lore that is hidden throughout the world. Possibly a larger team of GM's than standard MMO's to provide dynamic quests given to key players or act as "gods" who can give direction. Think Joan of Arc for that last one. But all in all, a sense that almost anything that goes on, the player, any player, gets that feeling that what they do impacts the world somehow. I never once got that feeling from WoW.... except when I submitted a bug report.
...delivery quests...A good way to tell you have had enough is when you can spot where to go without reading the whole quest.
LOL!
CASUALFRIENDLY: The game is friendly to casual players.
...The key allows players to explore the dungeon from a different starting point....I think it would be a great idea, but the loot would be scaled down. Loot has a risk associated with it.

I think my intention here was more of a "save" button. If you teleport back from this checkpoint, you have to start over. Or maybe a sophisticated system where the dungeon as a whole is more of an "experience" the character once had and can return to this checkpoint at any time but return to the state they were in when they saved it... I know this would get complicated but for an initial concept it could work.
One thing you mention here is time. As a casual player you must accept that games such as WoW favor the player who plays more often. Sadly one of the ways it favors players who play longer is better gear. If you really want the loot you have to make a solid commitment to play a whole dungeon multiple times.

Again with my own design ideas creeping in on this, I was always interested in making a system where the skill of the character was directly tied to the skill of the player, not the amount of time they had spent into it. So to be casual, you can still be the best if you really are good.
NOHERO: (minor) Am I the only hero in the game? ...
If you want a new experience you have to understand that static quests allow the developers to focus on other aspects (dungeons, raids, PvP) instead of churning out 1200 newbie quests that are all variations of giving Jimbo the antidote.

I think this ties into the player created content that I addressed above. But what would be nice for now are quests that span multiple players. That would at least give you the impression that all NPC's don't view you as the only hero in the game. Sure you have to group up often, but make a quest ( i know it's delivery, but i couldn't think of another good one on the spot ) that requires you to deliver a box to a different place, but all you're given is the town you are supposed to meet this person. Another quest is given out that requires another player to fetch it. Since many characters could have this quest at one time, there are several people they can get this item from / give to. Initial thought so there are holes.
SWITCHSERVER: (minor) It would be nice to be able to switch servers.
That allows players to do horrible things and flee. I like the idea of having a server permanence. It flows a lot more into the persistant world idea you spoke about. If you want player content you will not want player's able to demolish buildings or create stupid structures or other griefer stuff and then flee to a safer server and repeat.

Never thought of that. The longer it takes to build / bring down the better. No "nuke" solutions that a player alone can do. It has to be an army. Which means it's no longer griefer activities, but simply player made event. But I guess in a decade or so, having only several servers (or clusters of servers which share the load of one world), would eliminate this issue. Only being able to choose from say 5 servers that exist for diversity of worlds, they could only do this 5 times before they have to remain logged off.

Jetrpg · June 2007

WAR looks like it would best fit your wants, its not out yet tho.

Best game out is sadly still DAOC. play on classic.

PM me if you want some help starting.

wolfmann · June 2007

No, it doesnt exist.

Why?

Because you're asking about a game that allows you to play it your way.

Those do not exist any more, because games today are to be "mainstream" and for everyone. Thus all gaimes are "mainstreamed" into well.. playing it their way or get the heck out..

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