Yea HJ was being 1st developed in 99 i believe was 1 year after UO release 1st engine was very Diablo like.. this is the 3rd engine .
That's not quite fair to say. I think the project you are talking about is the scrapped one that shares nothing but the same title with this version which was started in the 2000s.
In terms of ability to make your character look different form everyone else's, WoW's character creation is better than FFXI's. I'm talking about at the character screen, looks wise when I say that. If someone considers jobs and such, I suppose they get more evened up with FFXI having multiclassing and WoW having talents. Personal preferences would say which is better at that point, but WoW has more character look combinations at the character creation screen than Final Fantasy XI.
But we aren't here to talk about a game that has nothing to do with HJ. They're not alike in any way I can think of so there isn't a reason. Different company structure, different engines, different starts, different thinking.. They will attract different people (and no, I'm not sorting out the human population by brain cell count). Who they attract doesn't make anyone bad or anything, it means people, thankfully, think differently and want different things. It's what keeps niche things alive and viable and I will continue to talk to game design classmates about WoW and HJ on equal but unique terms.
Now! I know all these people are getting antsy because of no Hero's Journey coming out and other games saying they will be soon... But I have this strange feeling some of these other games will be getting delayed to next year and they'll all be released around HJ closer than people think. Maybe I'm wrong, but my intuition says it.
I don't mean to argue with you about it, I just disagree. I've played both games and my opinion about the character creation differs from yours. WoW may have a few more options but not that much more. It's not like Second life or even CoH/CoV. I still see just as many clones in WoW that I did in FF. That's why I say it's among the worst. I never said it's THE worst. Even if it has a few more options than FF doesn't make it any better than FF. It's still very limited in it's character creation. But again, I'm not arguing, I'm just respectfully disagreeing.
I'm not here to defend WoW, or promote WoW over HJ. WoW is the king of the hill in the mmo market and doesn't need me to defend it. But I do make this one observation. When Sigil fell apart, one of their employees said something insightful. To paraphrase, he said that Sigil spent too much time distancing themselves from WoW and trying to be the anti-WoW, when what they should have been doing is learning from its popularity and functionality. Personally, if Simu actually makes this game, I think they will be smarter than Sigil and not make the same mistake. But if they do make that mistake - and it would be a HUGE mistake - that's on them.
I finally understand. Amathe is a WoW fanboy and thinks that every MMORPG that follows WoW should be a WoW/EQ clone. Why should Simu, or anyone for that matter make an MMORPG if it's just going to be another WoW/EQ clone? Like you said, WoW has a large customer base so why would any of them want to switch to a new game that's exactly like WoW? If you're going to make a game then it needs to be different from WoW. And not just different but better. That way you can attract all of the players that are tired of the WoW style and want something new.
I don't see Simu trying to make HJ the anti-WoW but at the same time it certainly won't be another clone. Again, WoW is so popular because it's the Super Mario Brothers of MMORPG's. Yes it's easy to play and that's why people like it, but there's no challenge to it and the quests are way too repetitive. I don't know how HJ is going to play beyond what I've seen in the videos but hopefully it will be challeging but not to the point that you'll want to bang your head against the wall. The Journey system will be a big improvement over the quest system that WoW uses. Their unique crafting system and dynamic instances will keep the game from being the grindfest that WoW and other games like it are. I want to see what their duel class system will be like. Gemstone has a class system but everyone can train in any skill including lockpicking, disarming traps, picking pockets etc. Of course rogues can train more in those skills and thus be better lockpicks than any other class but they're not the only class limited to those skills. All classes including Warriors can learn some magic though it's more expensive to learn for certain classes than others , and mages can learn how to wield two handed weapons or even hold a weapon in each hand, but again you would have to sacrifice your magic training to learn those skills. But at least you're not limited to a certain skill set for each class like you are in other classes. I'll be interested to see if HJ is anything like GS in that regard.
But any ways, I like the direction that HJ is going. It's a lot better than all the clones comming out, especially LoTRO. That may be the most dissapointing game ever. I can't believe the most popular fantasy franchise of all time can't do any better than that. It's a really pathetic effort by Turbine if you ask me. I'm glad HJ didn't go that route.
I finally understand. Amathe is a WoW fanboy and thinks that every MMORPG that follows WoW should be a WoW/EQ clone.
I have played 8 or 9 mmos and beta tested a slew of them. I have never been a fanboy of any game. There is a lot to like about WoW, and there are things about it I don't like - some of them major. But that is neither here nor there. If you find it convenient to pigeonhole people you speak to, as opposed to listening to what they say, there is nothing I can do about that.
I see a lot of people talking about how easy WoW is without ever really doing much in the game of significance. My favorite was a letter to the editor recently in Games for Windows Magazine, talking about how shallow and easy WoW is. He was level 49 lol. Whatever. There is no persuading someone like that. Suffice to say that at max level that is not the end of the game, and there are tons of challenges after that.
Then there is the standard "wow kiddie" criticism. Yes, WoW has its share of idiots. All mmos do. HJ will too if it ever releases. Judging from some of these threads it is a lock cinch lol. I don't know who you guys play games with, but my friends are doctors, lawyers, business people, IT people - adults with jobs and families. /shrug
My point was not that HJ should copy WoW. I said what I meant the first time though so no need to repeat it. *glances upwards*
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Originally posted by Kenorv I don't see Simu trying to make HJ the anti-WoW but at the same time it certainly won't be another clone.
This made remember how much crap I've seen Simu puke over "other mmo's" out there...And to be honest, I do hear developer puke over other games and, at the same time, throw roses over their own.. But Not as much I've seen/read Simu do. Hell, they are the masters of puking. So, It will be very interesting to finally see HJ, if it actually is released, and check how much different it will be of the other MMO's, bathing in Simu puke. I think, however, Simu turned down the puking lately, and that is good and bad.. Good, because its nicer, but bad because it could mean they realised it might end up pretty much like everything else out there.
So I hope Amathe is wrong or I will curse Simu for wasting my time following this, in theory, interesting game so f-ing long and curse myself for not listening to Amethe's (and his allies), sometimes pretty good points, more seriously.
__________________________ Reality is for people who lack imagination
I have played 8 or 9 mmos and beta tested a slew of them. I have never been a fanboy of any game. There is a lot to like about WoW, and there are things about it I don't like - some of them major. But that is neither here nor there. If you find it convenient to pigeonhole people you speak to, as opposed to listening to what they say, there is nothing I can do about that.
You just described how you respond and treat anyone from Simu that post about the game.
Originally posted by Dyng-Johan Originally posted by Kenorv I don't see Simu trying to make HJ the anti-WoW but at the same time it certainly won't be another clone.
This made remember how much crap I've seen Simu puke over "other mmo's" out there...And to be honest, I do hear developer puke over other games and, at the same time, throw roses over their own.. But Not as much I've seen/read Simu do. Hell, they are the masters of puking. So, It will be very interesting to finally see HJ, if it actually is released, and check how much different it will be of the other MMO's, bathing in Simu puke. I think, however, Simu turned down the puking lately, and that is good and bad.. Good, because its nicer, but bad because it could mean they realised it might end up pretty much like everything else out there.
So I hope Amathe is wrong or I will curse Simu for wasting my time following this, in theory, interesting game so f-ing long and curse myself for not listening to Amethe's (and his allies), sometimes pretty good points, more seriously.
Just saying they do this or that does not make it true. Perhaps you can reference an example of what your talking about? Sure, they post how they don't like some types of game systems, but I don't recall them bashing any game titles.
I have played 8 or 9 mmos and beta tested a slew of them. I have never been a fanboy of any game. There is a lot to like about WoW, and there are things about it I don't like - some of them major. But that is neither here nor there. If you find it convenient to pigeonhole people you speak to, as opposed to listening to what they say, there is nothing I can do about that.
You just described how you respond and treat anyone from Simu that post about the game.
Bravo!
Jonny
Heh, glad you said that because I was thinking it myself and thinking I was the only one that had noticed.
Just saying they do this or that does not make it true. Perhaps you can reference an example of what your talking about? Sure, they post how they don't like some types of game systems, but I don't recall them bashing any game titles. Jonny
I doesn't make it untrue either...
Start by looking at the old "live stream" from simucon 2005. That will give you an Idea on what I'm talking about. If you havent seen it, It contains alot of stuff that made me interested in the game, long time ago. The thing is, I like when they say Everquest, and its clones, are crap.. that shows some balls, and its funny. It might be rude, but I like rude before nice sometimes, because its usually more honest. You will find the clip at Heroes Hall (HJ fan/community site)I think. Oh, btw, pointing at gamesystem is pretty much the same, at least when it's totally obvious what game they talk about. Anyway, I recommend it to all, not only for some silly evidence for the crap I post...
However, I think they admitted that CoH/CoV's character creation was the inspiration for HJ's character creation, as they (I guess) liked it (not the game that is).
peace man!
__________________________ Reality is for people who lack imagination
Well it shares the same company ,and this game has been scrapped twice before the 1st engine in 99 the 2nd (unreal) engine in 2003 i believe then they develop there own engine which looks very promising ..don't get me wrong i have high hopes for this game and Simutronics being a subscriber to there text games which are very good
((( Oh, btw, pointing at gamesystem is pretty much the same, at least when it's totally obvious what game they talk about. )))
Not even close. Talking bad about a game title is panning the whole title. Talking bad about a game system is panning one aspect gaming that is often shared among many games. Either way though, I still don't see evidence of your claim or implied claim that Simu as a company outright bashes other game company's titles often.
"WAR is already talking about beta's and they have an 08 release date."
WAR is talking about betas because the way they developed the game and beta test program focuses on one world area at a time. So they attempt to create one racial area, then allow people to test that area while they start building the next racial area. Testers would not be given access to all areas or races in this scheme.
As for WAR being developed faster than HJ, well they have at least 4 times the developers, 200 compared to 50. Does that mean it will be a better or more polished game than HJ? No. Some of my favorite MMOGs were created by small studios and teams nobody had ever heard of. I think HJ should just step back, stay focused, and let all the WoW clones rushing to market fall flat on their faces. I expect HJ to be more like EVE, an online community that steadily grows over years. And just like EVE, they do not have to be the biggest MMOG to succeed, they just need to create a deep and engaging experience.
((( Oh, btw, pointing at gamesystem is pretty much the same, at least when it's totally obvious what game they talk about. ))) Not even close. Talking bad about a game title is panning the whole title. Talking bad about a game system is panning one aspect gaming that is often shared among many games. Either way though, I still don't see evidence of your claim or implied claim that Simu as a company outright bashes other game company's titles often. Jonny.
Actually, if anything, we are highly encouraged to play other games. A lot of our GMs play at least one other MMO, while most play two or three.
Not only that, we'd like for all of you to play the other games too. We want you to make decisions on what you like to play, we wouldn't say anything like "Oh no! You can only play HJ, it will be the best MMO and you're not allowed to play others"
Play the other games. If you like HJ better, play that. I'd rather have someone play a game because they like it, not because they don't like anything else because they haven't tried them!
Originally posted by HJ-Diviana Actually, if anything, we are highly encouraged to play other games. A lot of our GMs play at least one other MMO, while most play two or three.>>
Originally posted by HJ-Diviana Actually, if anything, we are highly encouraged to play other games. A lot of our GMs play at least one other MMO, while most play two or three.>>
Sure, but I believe GMs only invest about 20 hours per week into the project and I would not expect employees to invest much more than 40, just like most jobs. I do not see how the games people play during their free time would effect development times, whether they are GM or Employee. At GDC Simutronics mentioned they are moving into a larger workspace and are expanding the dev team to twice the size, that's pretty major for an Indie.
Would you rather have a big publisher like EA come in and ruin the game completely by chopping out features and releasing it based on when marketing says it would be best? Trust me, I worked at a studio that was bought by EA, it is not a pretty sight.
Sure, but I believe GMs only invest about 20 hours per week into the project and I would not expect employees to invest much more than 40, just like most jobs. I do not see how the games people play during their free time would effect development times, whether they are GM or Employee. At GDC Simutronics mentioned they are moving into a larger workspace and are expanding the dev team to twice the size, that's pretty major for an Indie. Would you rather have a big publisher like EA come in and ruin the game completely by chopping out features and releasing it based on when marketing says it would be best? Trust me, I worked at a studio that was bought by EA, it is not a pretty sight.
Not to mention that playing other games provides valuable research for the developers. You can't create a game that's new and different from other games if you don't have first hand knowledge of what those other games are like. It's just common sense for them to try other games.
I finally understand. Amathe is a WoW fanboy and thinks that every MMORPG that follows WoW should be a WoW/EQ clone.
I have played 8 or 9 mmos and beta tested a slew of them. I have never been a fanboy of any game. There is a lot to like about WoW, and there are things about it I don't like - some of them major. But that is neither here nor there. If you find it convenient to pigeonhole people you speak to, as opposed to listening to what they say, there is nothing I can do about that.
I see a lot of people talking about how easy WoW is without ever really doing much in the game of significance. My favorite was a letter to the editor recently in Games for Windows Magazine, talking about how shallow and easy WoW is. He was level 49 lol. Whatever. There is no persuading someone like that. Suffice to say that at max level that is not the end of the game, and there are tons of challenges after that.
Then there is the standard "wow kiddie" criticism. Yes, WoW has its share of idiots. All mmos do. HJ will too if it ever releases. Judging from some of these threads it is a lock cinch lol. I don't know who you guys play games with, but my friends are doctors, lawyers, business people, IT people - adults with jobs and families. /shrug
My point was not that HJ should copy WoW. I said what I meant the first time though so no need to repeat it. *glances upwards*
WoW is easy. And boring. What challenges are there after 70? The same boring raid crap that is done the same way you do every other raid in the game? The only challenge to some of them is trying to find 25 or 40 competent people to raid with. There is no depth or detail to anything in the game. Same boring quests. Raid in the same boring fashion. Boring faction grinding just so you can gain access to certain boring raids. But if that's what you enjoy then good for you. The rest of us expect a lot more out of an MMO. WoW lacks in so many areas it's not even funny. Even I know that HJ isn't the end all be all of MMO's but it's at least a step in the right direction unlike all of these other games that just want to copy WoW.
There are a few things that WoW got right. But the reasons why I liked it were models and animations. I played GS3/Dragonrealms/Herc&Xena. And when you play muds your imagination substitutes the graphics. So far Wow is the only MMO that came really close to how good animations and models should be, how you would imagine them to be Animations help make the movement of your character feel realistic and fun. The models make the environment immersive.
Before WoW I played EQ and DAoC, they also had good animation, models, character movement. The reason I didn't keep playing Lotro and Vanguard after trial is because character movement was awkward and not as responsive as it should be, and not enough variation or rich character movement animations. It just didn't feel immersive. Lotro was close, but for a game developed a few years after WoW the game animations should be equal or better, not almost as good. I know HJ will have great content and lore, but I also hope HJ has solid and rich models and animations, natural intuitive character movement. If its not good it will just break immersion and people won't play it.
There are a few things that WoW got right. But the reasons why I liked it were models and animations. I played GS3/Dragonrealms/Herc&Xena. And when you play muds your imagination substitutes the graphics. So far Wow is the only MMO that came really close to how good animations and models should be, how you would imagine them to be Animations help make the movement of your character feel realistic and fun. The models make the environment immersive. Before WoW I played EQ and DAoC, they also had good animation, models, character movement. The reason I didn't keep playing Lotro and Vanguard after trial is because character movement was awkward and not as responsive as it should be, and not enough variation or rich character movement animations. It just didn't feel immersive. Lotro was close, but for a game developed a few years after WoW the game animations should be equal or better, not almost as good. I know HJ will have great content and lore, but I also hope HJ has solid and rich models and animations, natural intuitive character movement. If its not good it will just break immersion and people won't play it.
If you want to see a good video about the character movement check out the video at Hero's Hall. Here's the link. The video is at the bottom of the page.
WoW is easy. And boring. What challenges are there after 70? The same boring raid crap that is done the same way you do every other raid in the game? The only challenge to some of them is trying to find 25 or 40 competent people to raid with. There is no depth or detail to anything in the game. Same boring quests. Raid in the same boring fashion. Boring faction grinding just so you can gain access to certain boring raids. But if that's what you enjoy then good for you. The rest of us expect a lot more out of an MMO. WoW lacks in so many areas it's not even funny. Even I know that HJ isn't the end all be all of MMO's but it's at least a step in the right direction unlike all of these other games that just want to copy WoW.
I disagree with your characterizations. But let's assume for the purpose of argument you are right. Why will HJ be more challenging? And what is their end game content? Why do you think HJ will be better in those departments? I sure haven't seen anything to make me think that.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
WoW is easy. And boring. What challenges are there after 70? The same boring raid crap that is done the same way you do every other raid in the game? The only challenge to some of them is trying to find 25 or 40 competent people to raid with. There is no depth or detail to anything in the game. Same boring quests. Raid in the same boring fashion. Boring faction grinding just so you can gain access to certain boring raids. But if that's what you enjoy then good for you. The rest of us expect a lot more out of an MMO. WoW lacks in so many areas it's not even funny. Even I know that HJ isn't the end all be all of MMO's but it's at least a step in the right direction unlike all of these other games that just want to copy WoW.
I disagree with your characterizations. But let's assume for the purpose of argument you are right. Why will HJ be more challenging? And what is their end game content? Why do you think HJ will be better in those departments? I sure haven't seen anything to make me think that.
You haven't seen it because they haven't released any details of it. But any ways, if HJ is anything like Gemstone or Dragonrealms then there really won't be any end game as there will be real time events mixed in with the standard stuff(which by the way is great in and of itself with the branching storylines and multiple solutions to quests). The RTE's will keep the game flowing in a way that other games lack. The world will be in constant change thanks to GM interaction in the RTE's. They can control NPC's at will and create real time stories that have a lasting impact on the world. For example, you might wake up to find out that the town that your character has lived in for many years has been sacked and burned to the ground by invaders never to be rebuilt again. Or perhaps two factions that were at peace for many years decide to engage in a long lasting war pitting you against people that may have been your friends. There are many possibilities thanks to the heroengine and the dedicated GM's working on HJ that you'll never see in a game like WoW. Endgame will be a word that you'll have to dismiss from your vocabulary.
Comments
Yea HJ was being 1st developed in 99 i believe was 1 year after UO release 1st engine was very Diablo like.. this is the 3rd engine .
That's not quite fair to say. I think the project you are talking about is the scrapped one that shares nothing but the same title with this version which was started in the 2000s.
I don't mean to argue with you about it, I just disagree. I've played both games and my opinion about the character creation differs from yours. WoW may have a few more options but not that much more. It's not like Second life or even CoH/CoV. I still see just as many clones in WoW that I did in FF. That's why I say it's among the worst. I never said it's THE worst. Even if it has a few more options than FF doesn't make it any better than FF. It's still very limited in it's character creation. But again, I'm not arguing, I'm just respectfully disagreeing.
I don't see Simu trying to make HJ the anti-WoW but at the same time it certainly won't be another clone. Again, WoW is so popular because it's the Super Mario Brothers of MMORPG's. Yes it's easy to play and that's why people like it, but there's no challenge to it and the quests are way too repetitive. I don't know how HJ is going to play beyond what I've seen in the videos but hopefully it will be challeging but not to the point that you'll want to bang your head against the wall. The Journey system will be a big improvement over the quest system that WoW uses. Their unique crafting system and dynamic instances will keep the game from being the grindfest that WoW and other games like it are. I want to see what their duel class system will be like. Gemstone has a class system but everyone can train in any skill including lockpicking, disarming traps, picking pockets etc. Of course rogues can train more in those skills and thus be better lockpicks than any other class but they're not the only class limited to those skills. All classes including Warriors can learn some magic though it's more expensive to learn for certain classes than others , and mages can learn how to wield two handed weapons or even hold a weapon in each hand, but again you would have to sacrifice your magic training to learn those skills. But at least you're not limited to a certain skill set for each class like you are in other classes. I'll be interested to see if HJ is anything like GS in that regard.
But any ways, I like the direction that HJ is going. It's a lot better than all the clones comming out, especially LoTRO. That may be the most dissapointing game ever. I can't believe the most popular fantasy franchise of all time can't do any better than that. It's a really pathetic effort by Turbine if you ask me. I'm glad HJ didn't go that route.
I have played 8 or 9 mmos and beta tested a slew of them. I have never been a fanboy of any game. There is a lot to like about WoW, and there are things about it I don't like - some of them major. But that is neither here nor there. If you find it convenient to pigeonhole people you speak to, as opposed to listening to what they say, there is nothing I can do about that.
I see a lot of people talking about how easy WoW is without ever really doing much in the game of significance. My favorite was a letter to the editor recently in Games for Windows Magazine, talking about how shallow and easy WoW is. He was level 49 lol. Whatever. There is no persuading someone like that. Suffice to say that at max level that is not the end of the game, and there are tons of challenges after that.
Then there is the standard "wow kiddie" criticism. Yes, WoW has its share of idiots. All mmos do. HJ will too if it ever releases. Judging from some of these threads it is a lock cinch lol. I don't know who you guys play games with, but my friends are doctors, lawyers, business people, IT people - adults with jobs and families. /shrug
My point was not that HJ should copy WoW. I said what I meant the first time though so no need to repeat it. *glances upwards*
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
This made remember how much crap I've seen Simu puke over "other mmo's" out there...And to be honest, I do hear developer puke over other games and, at the same time, throw roses over their own.. But Not as much I've seen/read Simu do. Hell, they are the masters of puking. So, It will be very interesting to finally see HJ, if it actually is released, and check how much different it will be of the other MMO's, bathing in Simu puke. I think, however, Simu turned down the puking lately, and that is good and bad.. Good, because its nicer, but bad because it could mean they realised it might end up pretty much like everything else out there.
So I hope Amathe is wrong or I will curse Simu for wasting my time following this, in theory, interesting game so f-ing long and curse myself for not listening to Amethe's (and his allies), sometimes pretty good points, more seriously.
__________________________
Reality is for people who lack imagination
You just described how you respond and treat anyone from Simu that post about the game.
Bravo!
Jonny
So I hope Amathe is wrong or I will curse Simu for wasting my time following this, in theory, interesting game so f-ing long and curse myself for not listening to Amethe's (and his allies), sometimes pretty good points, more seriously.
Just saying they do this or that does not make it true. Perhaps you can reference an example of what your talking about? Sure, they post how they don't like some types of game systems, but I don't recall them bashing any game titles.
Jonny
You just described how you respond and treat anyone from Simu that post about the game.
Bravo!
Jonny
Heh, glad you said that because I was thinking it myself and thinking I was the only one that had noticed.
I doesn't make it untrue either...
Start by looking at the old "live stream" from simucon 2005. That will give you an Idea on what I'm talking about. If you havent seen it, It contains alot of stuff that made me interested in the game, long time ago. The thing is, I like when they say Everquest, and its clones, are crap.. that shows some balls, and its funny. It might be rude, but I like rude before nice sometimes, because its usually more honest. You will find the clip at Heroes Hall (HJ fan/community site)I think. Oh, btw, pointing at gamesystem is pretty much the same, at least when it's totally obvious what game they talk about. Anyway, I recommend it to all, not only for some silly evidence for the crap I post...
However, I think they admitted that CoH/CoV's character creation was the inspiration for HJ's character creation, as they (I guess) liked it (not the game that is).
peace man!
__________________________
Reality is for people who lack imagination
Well it shares the same company ,and this game has been scrapped twice before the 1st engine in 99 the 2nd (unreal) engine in 2003 i believe then they develop there own engine which looks very promising ..don't get me wrong i have high hopes for this game and Simutronics being a subscriber to there text games which are very good
Er, I think the Hero is still on his journey. In fact, I think he may never reach the end of his journey. Not crossing fingers on this one.
((( Oh, btw, pointing at gamesystem is pretty much the same, at least when it's totally obvious what game they talk about. )))
Not even close. Talking bad about a game title is panning the whole title. Talking bad about a game system is panning one aspect gaming that is often shared among many games. Either way though, I still don't see evidence of your claim or implied claim that Simu as a company outright bashes other game company's titles often.
Jonny.
"WAR is already talking about beta's and they have an 08 release date."
WAR is talking about betas because the way they developed the game and beta test program focuses on one world area at a time. So they attempt to create one racial area, then allow people to test that area while they start building the next racial area. Testers would not be given access to all areas or races in this scheme.
As for WAR being developed faster than HJ, well they have at least 4 times the developers, 200 compared to 50. Does that mean it will be a better or more polished game than HJ? No. Some of my favorite MMOGs were created by small studios and teams nobody had ever heard of. I think HJ should just step back, stay focused, and let all the WoW clones rushing to market fall flat on their faces. I expect HJ to be more like EVE, an online community that steadily grows over years. And just like EVE, they do not have to be the biggest MMOG to succeed, they just need to create a deep and engaging experience.
World Builder GM
Hero's Journey
Actually, if anything, we are highly encouraged to play other games. A lot of our GMs play at least one other MMO, while most play two or three.
Not only that, we'd like for all of you to play the other games too. We want you to make decisions on what you like to play, we wouldn't say anything like "Oh no! You can only play HJ, it will be the best MMO and you're not allowed to play others"
Play the other games. If you like HJ better, play that. I'd rather have someone play a game because they like it, not because they don't like anything else because they haven't tried them!
And we wonder why the game isn't out yet...
And we wonder why the game isn't out yet...
GM's don't code the game.
GMs DO build the worlds, the quests, the meat of the game.
Sure, but I believe GMs only invest about 20 hours per week into the project and I would not expect employees to invest much more than 40, just like most jobs. I do not see how the games people play during their free time would effect development times, whether they are GM or Employee. At GDC Simutronics mentioned they are moving into a larger workspace and are expanding the dev team to twice the size, that's pretty major for an Indie.
Would you rather have a big publisher like EA come in and ruin the game completely by chopping out features and releasing it based on when marketing says it would be best? Trust me, I worked at a studio that was bought by EA, it is not a pretty sight.
World Builder GM
Hero's Journey
Not to mention that playing other games provides valuable research for the developers. You can't create a game that's new and different from other games if you don't have first hand knowledge of what those other games are like. It's just common sense for them to try other games.
I have played 8 or 9 mmos and beta tested a slew of them. I have never been a fanboy of any game. There is a lot to like about WoW, and there are things about it I don't like - some of them major. But that is neither here nor there. If you find it convenient to pigeonhole people you speak to, as opposed to listening to what they say, there is nothing I can do about that.
I see a lot of people talking about how easy WoW is without ever really doing much in the game of significance. My favorite was a letter to the editor recently in Games for Windows Magazine, talking about how shallow and easy WoW is. He was level 49 lol. Whatever. There is no persuading someone like that. Suffice to say that at max level that is not the end of the game, and there are tons of challenges after that.
Then there is the standard "wow kiddie" criticism. Yes, WoW has its share of idiots. All mmos do. HJ will too if it ever releases. Judging from some of these threads it is a lock cinch lol. I don't know who you guys play games with, but my friends are doctors, lawyers, business people, IT people - adults with jobs and families. /shrug
My point was not that HJ should copy WoW. I said what I meant the first time though so no need to repeat it. *glances upwards*
WoW is easy. And boring. What challenges are there after 70? The same boring raid crap that is done the same way you do every other raid in the game? The only challenge to some of them is trying to find 25 or 40 competent people to raid with. There is no depth or detail to anything in the game. Same boring quests. Raid in the same boring fashion. Boring faction grinding just so you can gain access to certain boring raids. But if that's what you enjoy then good for you. The rest of us expect a lot more out of an MMO. WoW lacks in so many areas it's not even funny. Even I know that HJ isn't the end all be all of MMO's but it's at least a step in the right direction unlike all of these other games that just want to copy WoW.
There are a few things that WoW got right. But the reasons why I liked it were models and animations. I played GS3/Dragonrealms/Herc&Xena. And when you play muds your imagination substitutes the graphics. So far Wow is the only MMO that came really close to how good animations and models should be, how you would imagine them to be Animations help make the movement of your character feel realistic and fun. The models make the environment immersive.
Before WoW I played EQ and DAoC, they also had good animation, models, character movement. The reason I didn't keep playing Lotro and Vanguard after trial is because character movement was awkward and not as responsive as it should be, and not enough variation or rich character movement animations. It just didn't feel immersive. Lotro was close, but for a game developed a few years after WoW the game animations should be equal or better, not almost as good. I know HJ will have great content and lore, but I also hope HJ has solid and rich models and animations, natural intuitive character movement. If its not good it will just break immersion and people won't play it.
If you want to see a good video about the character movement check out the video at Hero's Hall. Here's the link. The video is at the bottom of the page.
www.heroshall.com/gdc20071.php
I disagree with your characterizations. But let's assume for the purpose of argument you are right. Why will HJ be more challenging? And what is their end game content? Why do you think HJ will be better in those departments? I sure haven't seen anything to make me think that.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
I disagree with your characterizations. But let's assume for the purpose of argument you are right. Why will HJ be more challenging? And what is their end game content? Why do you think HJ will be better in those departments? I sure haven't seen anything to make me think that.
You haven't seen it because they haven't released any details of it. But any ways, if HJ is anything like Gemstone or Dragonrealms then there really won't be any end game as there will be real time events mixed in with the standard stuff(which by the way is great in and of itself with the branching storylines and multiple solutions to quests). The RTE's will keep the game flowing in a way that other games lack. The world will be in constant change thanks to GM interaction in the RTE's. They can control NPC's at will and create real time stories that have a lasting impact on the world. For example, you might wake up to find out that the town that your character has lived in for many years has been sacked and burned to the ground by invaders never to be rebuilt again. Or perhaps two factions that were at peace for many years decide to engage in a long lasting war pitting you against people that may have been your friends. There are many possibilities thanks to the heroengine and the dedicated GM's working on HJ that you'll never see in a game like WoW. Endgame will be a word that you'll have to dismiss from your vocabulary.