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Do any of you actually like MMORPGs?

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  • handshakeshandshakes Member Posts: 73

    Right on zaxxxon. We don't complain because we hate MMOs, but rather because we love them and we want to see them get out of their current rut (which is a very real rut).

    Why does it hurt when I pee?

  • Thunder_HeadThunder_Head Member Posts: 304

    If you find one that appeals to your tastes - yes. However, even under these conditions, it is only a matter of time before you get bored and move on.

  • creed77creed77 Member Posts: 11
    Originally posted by Recant


    I'm starting to think the majority of you really don't like MMORPGs at all, for the following reasons:
    1) You're always complaining
    2) MMO announcements are met with cynicism and contempt
    3) Nothing will ever match the MMORPG that you first played years ago
    4) Developer of said MMORPG ruined their game by changing it.
    5) And yet you're sick and tired of the stagnation of the MMORPG genre.  You hate levels, dice rolls, equipment, time being directly proportional to power, and many other classic RPG elements.  You're basically asking that games within the  MMORPG genre should change genre in order to avoid stagnation - perhaps become twitch or RTS based.  You hate that expansions make you do more of the same thing - despite the fact this is the whole point of an expansion and it's the same for all genres of game.
    6) You think that popular MMOs suck, niche MMOs are great.  The less people that play it, the better it is.
    7) You're sick and tired of the repetitiveness of MMORPGs at the high end, when content runs out, and you assume that it's going to be different in other games, only to find out you're just doing something else that's repetitive.
    8) You hate how MMORPGs don't release content fast enough then complain when an expansion is released and 'forces' you to level and 'grind' again.  You hate playing MMORPGs you just like getting to the top of the hill and then bitching about how much you hated this game you religiously took part in for the past 100 days /played.
    9) You have unrealistic expectations.
    10) You may never enjoy an MMO again in your entire life.
    I'm sure I've opened myself up to a torrent of abuse, just thought this needed saying.  You miserable gits!
     

    Wow, talk about hitting the nail on the head with this one. I sorry folks but there is a lot of negativity in these forums. I don't like fantasy but I would not mock someone just because we don't like the same things.

  • AnofalyeAnofalye Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 7,433

     

    Originally posted by Recant
    9) You have unrealistic expectations. 

     

    Yeah, be FREE from a Raiding or PvP enforcement is unrealistic...ROFL.

     

    The only guys who are unrealistics, they are the crappy guys who get paid to put THAT into games that would be otherwise wonderful.

     

    If everyone jumps off the bridge, asking the newcomer to not jump off the bridge isn't unrealistic, it is merely comon sense.  See, the devs they want to keep me interested in a game where I was already interested, and by doing so, they lose me and my interest...and all the benefits players like me bring to an online community.  I was happy leveling up forever when they put a level cap...fine...but then, they add the crappiest stuff ever.  No thanks.  Level caps are fine, raiding or PvP to replace an unlimited levels?  Never going to digest such crap.

    - "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren

  • NazarosNazaros Member Posts: 215
    Originally posted by zaxxon23


    MMOs went sour on me when people decided that MMO meant large forced grouping.  I play MMOs to play with other players on my terms.  Perhaps I just want to play with some close friends.  Perhaps I just want to solo and trade my loots with others.  Either way, the point is that I despise being forced into a specific playstyle (e.g. raiding) in order to progress in the game.  Until MMOs allow me to play the game I want, then I won't participate in them.  It's as simple as that.  It's not that I don't like grouping and raiding.  I like that just fine.  I just don't want to be forced into grouping and raiding for every moment that I play the game.  I like variety, as shocking as that may be to some people.
    Devs can easily solve this problem by allowing alternative forms of advancement.  In particular, any loot in the game should be able to drop for any player, whether they are in a raid, small group, or solo.  The cavaet is that larger groups most certainly should have advantages due to the complexity of organizing large groups, so I think that large groups should get MORE loot, NOT better loot (in addition raiders should receive novelty loot, such as super rare decorative items for player housing (e.g. super rare artwork)).  That way there is good reason for people of all playstyles to play a game, which boosts the profit potential of the game as well as the size of the community.  It's a win win for everyone but the self righteous pricks who think that raids are god and anyone who doesn't raid isn't worthy of anything.
    MMO is not an acronym for massive group size online game, it's an acronym for massive MULTIPLAYER online game.  It's unfortunate that so many people equte multiplayer to large groups when multiplayer means exactly what it says.  Multiple players playing the same game.

    I salute you. 

    What deserves to be done, deserves to be "well" done...

  • AnofalyeAnofalye Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 7,433

    Originally posted by zaxxon23
    Devs can easily solve this problem by allowing alternative forms of advancement.  In particular, any loot in the game should be able to drop for any player, whether they are in a raid, small group, or solo.  The cavaet is that larger groups most certainly should have advantages due to the complexity of organizing large groups, so I think that large groups should get MORE loot, NOT better loot (in addition raiders should receive novelty loot, such as super rare decorative items for player housing (e.g. super rare artwork)).  That way there is good reason for people of all playstyles to play a game, which boosts the profit potential of the game as well as the size of the community.  It's a win win for everyone but the self righteous pricks who think that raids are god and anyone who doesn't raid isn't worthy of anything.

    I disagree.  They deserve squat.  Not more, not better.  By accepting to be subpar, you invite to further aggressions, and raiders are extremely sociapath and unsocials, you don't give them any opening.  Your logic is what lead Germany and WW2.  Maybe if you give...NOPE.  Raiders deserve NOTHING outside of the raiding gameplay.

    Optimal path has to be Grouping, and then all other can be equal or inferior.  Soloing has to be the second best optimal path.

     

    Never give in, the next thing you know you will be left with nothing.  A raider deserve my right foot in it epic bottom!  If he doesn't like to raid, he shouldn't raid.  End of discussion.

     

    The optimal path has to be throught grouping, and there is no debate, no arguing, no opening.  Then, after grouping, soloing should be the second most important focus of a MMO which plan on having players like me.

    - "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren

  • TorakTorak Member Posts: 4,905

    Originally posted by Recant


    I'm starting to think the majority of you really don't like MMORPGs at all, for the following reasons:
    1) You're always complaining
    2) MMO announcements are met with cynicism and contempt
    3) Nothing will ever match the MMORPG that you first played years ago
    4) Developer of said MMORPG ruined their game by changing it.
    5) And yet you're sick and tired of the stagnation of the MMORPG genre.  You hate levels, dice rolls, equipment, time being directly proportional to power, and many other classic RPG elements.  You're basically asking that games within the  MMORPG genre should change genre in order to avoid stagnation - perhaps become twitch or RTS based.  You hate that expansions make you do more of the same thing - despite the fact this is the whole point of an expansion and it's the same for all genres of game.
    6) You think that popular MMOs suck, niche MMOs are great.  The less people that play it, the better it is.
    7) You're sick and tired of the repetitiveness of MMORPGs at the high end, when content runs out, and you assume that it's going to be different in other games, only to find out you're just doing something else that's repetitive.
    8) You hate how MMORPGs don't release content fast enough then complain when an expansion is released and 'forces' you to level and 'grind' again.  You hate playing MMORPGs you just like getting to the top of the hill and then bitching about how much you hated this game you religiously took part in for the past 100 days /played.
    9) You have unrealistic expectations.
    10) You may never enjoy an MMO again in your entire life.
    I'm sure I've opened myself up to a torrent of abuse, just thought this needed saying.  You miserable gits!
     

    I'm gonna try to explain (from my point of view)

    MMOs originally started out as social games that focused more on creating and coopportation throughout the game rather then just at the "end" like many games these days. The first gen games tried to create simulated worlds instead of compartmentalized game features. UO, EQ and AC were pretty much the models. UO was open, free sandbox play. EQ was very highly dependent on socializing and AC was a blend of the two. As the new waves of games released, they either crashed and burned at launch or had a much narrower and shallow scope of play to the point of having more in common with linear single player games then the original MMO's. One attempt at the old style even ripped itself apart in a misguided attempt to"evolve" in the newer type of games (SWG) Arguably the game was failing anyway because of the poor technical quality control. All that change did was alienate and anger an already volatile customer base.

    So....that just left two games that even tried to make the old MMOs, Ryzom, which pretty much threw itself off a cliff with a terrible launch and EVE.

    Your core MMOers have become pretty jaded becasue of these 2 facts.

    • Technical quality in western made MMO games is poop for the most part. Since WoW there have been about a dozen plus launches, all but 2 (GW and LotRs) were pretty much poop.
    • a lack of any real options to choose from becasue no games have released that are targeted at core MMO players in many many years. (EVE was probably the last one) While everything that is made is basically aimed at siphoning off WoW players with similar game design.

    1) core MMO players are complaining because no one is making any games for them

    2) See no. 1 then add the FACT that almost any MMO launch in the past 3 years has been a disaster

    3) Mainly because no one is trying so....see no. 1

    4) depends on the game, all humans bitch...thats life. /shrug

    5) Well....MMOs have changed but more toward a more simplistic style of gaming. Core MMO players don't like the simplistic style gameplay. MMO have de-evolved rathen Evolve. There is a huge difference in where MMOs have gone and where core older players would have liked to see them go.

    6) "Popular" MMOs are not aimed at core MMO players. They are aimed at the WoW / shooter / casual audiance. sooo....see no. 1

    7) thats a strange paradox with MMO's. It has more to do with so many varied expectations and technical limits. the original games assumed that the players would rely alot on heavy socialization rather then pre made content. The opposite is true today.

    8) See no. 7 same thing really. Originally MMOs were social focused.

    9) Not really, its been done in the past several times. MMO players excepting to low of a standard of game is the real problem.

    10) maybe. Alot of the newer games are pretty good in a very limited way. WoW, GW,LotRs are all great examples of high quality games. Its just not what the core MMO audience is looking for. Had LotRs been more sandbox or at least more original rather then copy so much from existing games, it might be doing a little better then it is right now. Its safe to say that its more or less WoW with a Middle Earth skin and some story driven quest. Pretty much what MMOers don't want more of. So as long as devs keep making the same game over and over, you are probably correct in that assumption.

    The problem with all this game design copy -catting is that its not working but devs are not taking the hint. They continue to fling poop at the wall hoping something sticks. 

    See....no abuse

  • sitheussitheus Member Posts: 230

    OP, that's a long post. You should have summed it up by saying this:

    "Why do people complain about WoW and not good niche games like EvE. If you don't like WoW then clearly you don't like MMO's because its teh greatest fad ever in my world and you are suppose to like it because everyone else does. Stop being against WoW and come throw your $15 a month away on bs expansions like the rest of us. If you want to see games detract from WoW desgin, then you have unrealistic expecations because WoW is the only MMO that does it right and there is no way in hades any game can do better".

    There, was that about it? 

  • ApocalypticaApocalyptica Member Posts: 491

    I love mmorpgs, I always did and always will do. I think each mmorpg has good and bad features. I find it also highly amusing how peeps just come here to bitch and whine. When I play a new mmorpg, I never listen to what has been said here about them. I always jsut play it and make up my own mind. Peeps here are far to set in their ways. Everybody just want their mmorpg. If it is not 100% to their liking they will trash the whole thing. Everybody who doesn't do that they think of as fanboy.

    MMORPG's always have been business und always will be. This has absolutely nothing to do with the quality. What peeps here realy have to think about, is that times are changing and what kids like to play, changes with that as well. So most obviously mmorpgs will change with that. They are not going to stop because of a handful old  timers who cannot cope with the change and see good in them.

    I would truly love if peeps here would not trash every positiv post that is made. I hardly post here nowadays because of all the whining. I mean, get over it peeps, if you are not willing to like the new mmorpg, then maybe your time in mmorpgs is over. And even if you still carry on here. Will you stop making these boards so so miserable please!

     

    ------------------------------------------------------
    Do I ever sleep?
    image

  • PezDSpencerPezDSpencer Member UncommonPosts: 111

    Originally posted by sitheus


    OP, that's a long post. You should have summed it up by saying this:
    "Why do people complain about WoW and not good niche games like EvE. If you don't like WoW then clearly you don't like MMO's because its teh greatest fad ever in my world and you are suppose to like it because everyone else does. Stop being against WoW and come throw your $15 a month away on bs expansions like the rest of us. If you want to see games detract from WoW desgin, then you have unrealistic expecations because WoW is the only MMO that does it right and there is no way in hades any game can do better".
    There, was that about it? 

    QFT!

     

    Fanboys ftl...

    ---
    He said to me, "On your deathbed, you will receive total consciousness." So I got that going for me, which is nice.

  • TyilinTyilin Member Posts: 104

    Originally posted by Recant


    I'm starting to think the majority of you really don't like MMORPGs at all, for the following reasons:
    1) You're always complaining
    Do we complain about it becuase we don't like it, or becuase we are so passionate about it that we want it to be perfect (from our perspective)
    2) MMO announcements are met with cynicism and contempt
    In all fairness, how often have we seen 'major content' updates ruin a game? People have learnt the hard way not to be too enthusiastic about them
    3) Nothing will ever match the MMORPG that you first played years ago
    Actually, I totally disagree. Sure, i may be in the minority, becuase i absolutely love the MMO's im playing now in comparason to my first.
    4) Developer of said MMORPG ruined their game by changing it.
    Proof is in the pudding mate. How often have we seen this? If you love something and someone royaly screws it over, I think you have every right to complain about it.
    5) And yet you're sick and tired of the stagnation of the MMORPG genre.  You hate levels, dice rolls, equipment, time being directly proportional to power, and many other classic RPG elements.  You're basically asking that games within the  MMORPG genre should change genre in order to avoid stagnation - perhaps become twitch or RTS based.  You hate that expansions make you do more of the same thing - despite the fact this is the whole point of an expansion and it's the same for all genres of game.
    I agree with you on this one.
    6) You think that popular MMOs suck, niche MMOs are great.  The less people that play it, the better it is.
    No, people think the MMO they play is great, the MMO's other people play suck. As games like WoW are little represented here, it looks like the more 'neiche' games are more popular.
    7) You're sick and tired of the repetitiveness of MMORPGs at the high end, when content runs out, and you assume that it's going to be different in other games, only to find out you're just doing something else that's repetitive.
    Is it not fair for people to assume the fun will never end (even if a bit naive`?)
    8) You hate how MMORPGs don't release content fast enough then complain when an expansion is released and 'forces' you to level and 'grind' again.  You hate playing MMORPGs you just like getting to the top of the hill and then bitching about how much you hated this game you religiously took part in for the past 100 days /played.
    9) You have unrealistic expectations.
    That's purly relitive. No genuine expectation is unrealistic. if you expect it to happen then it's possible. If you mean 'You make unrealistic demands' Then i agree ;)
    10) You may never enjoy an MMO again in your entire life.
    Lol I've enjoyed every MMORPG in my sig. just some more than others, Some for different reasons ;)
    I'm sure I've opened myself up to a torrent of abuse, just thought this needed saying.  You miserable gits!
     

     

    Ultimately it's easy to say that everyone complain's, but thats life. Right? People are so rarely happy with what they have, even people who have 'everything' still want something. The same goes for MMO's no matter what game you play, there can always be something that makes your time playing more perfect.

    I think its more of a case that people are too quick to complain, as opposed to the actual complaining itself :)

     

    Tyi

    _____________________
    Played:
    Aion, All Points Bulletin, ArchLord, Champions Online, City of Heroes, Dark Age of Camelot, EVE Online, EverQuest II, Fallen Earth, Fantasy Earth Zero, Guild Wars, Guild Wars Factions, Guild Wars Nightfall, Lineage 2, Lord of the Rings Online, Metin 2, MU Online, RF Online, Ryzom, Silkroad Online, Star Trek Online, Star Wars Galaxies, The Chronicles of Spellborn and Vanguard: Saga of Heroes

    Awaiting: FFXIV and SW:TOR

  • altairzqaltairzq Member Posts: 3,811

    Yes i hate the new MMORPGS.. EQ classic was great.

    This is why i'm in Second Life now.

  • JaeSwiftJaeSwift Member Posts: 201

    From my short time here so far, all I can say is that this is one of the VERY FEW forums that have a buttload of members posting constructed criticism. I consider that a VERY good thing, since criticism is only meant to help.

    EDIT: If no one ever complained, I doubt a LOT of the new ideas would be in the upcoming MMO's (less/no grind, interactive gameworld, enviroment thats important, deep storyline, casual-friendlier games etc.)

  • nomadiannomadian Member Posts: 3,490



    You pretty much nailed the the community here perfectly. A bunch of no-life MMO zealots that will never be satisfied. As a bonus, they also remain blind to the reality that most people don't like the Multiplayer aspect of these games. WoW got 9 million subscribers BECAUSE of all the solo content. I dare anyone to prove me wrong



    As for me, I've never liked MMORPGs in practice. I like the idea of MMOs, but the execution leaves much to be desired. Maybe once the tools are available so that everyone can make an MMO server if they want, this will change. A thousand monkeys at a thousand typewriters for a thousand years and all that...

    I loved MUDs way back in the day, but that's because they were much more social and RP focused back then.


    Why I pressed show post I have no idea, but you are baiting with this and there is a massive irony along with that.

  • GreenChaosGreenChaos Member Posts: 2,268

    The only one I like is CoX.  So for the most part no I don't like them.

    I do love MUDs.  Hardcore pvp - full loot MUDs.  



    And I'm hoping that some day we will see a MMO that is just as fun as a MUD.



    They key for me is really fun pvp (pvp with heart pounding hand shaking risk).  And a changing world dynamic.  That's all I'm asking for.  It's not much really.

     

  • METALDRAG0NMETALDRAG0N Member Posts: 1,680

    I dont know i do still enjoy playing EvE. Even tho ive been playing it for 4 years its sandbox aproach has kept me going.

    "Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god."
    -- Jean Rostand

  •  

    Originally posted by Anofalye


     
    Originally posted by zaxxon23
    Devs can easily solve this problem by allowing alternative forms of advancement.  In particular, any loot in the game should be able to drop for any player, whether they are in a raid, small group, or solo.  The cavaet is that larger groups most certainly should have advantages due to the complexity of organizing large groups, so I think that large groups should get MORE loot, NOT better loot (in addition raiders should receive novelty loot, such as super rare decorative items for player housing (e.g. super rare artwork)).  That way there is good reason for people of all playstyles to play a game, which boosts the profit potential of the game as well as the size of the community.  It's a win win for everyone but the self righteous pricks who think that raids are god and anyone who doesn't raid isn't worthy of anything.

     

    I disagree.  They deserve squat.  Not more, not better.  By accepting to be subpar, you invite to further aggressions, and raiders are extremely sociapath and unsocials, you don't give them any opening.  Your logic is what lead Germany and WW2.  Maybe if you give...NOPE.  Raiders deserve NOTHING outside of the raiding gameplay.

    Optimal path has to be Grouping, and then all other can be equal or inferior.  Soloing has to be the second best optimal path.

     

    Never give in, the next thing you know you will be left with nothing.  A raider deserve my right foot in it epic bottom!  If he doesn't like to raid, he shouldn't raid.  End of discussion.

     

    The optimal path has to be throught grouping, and there is no debate, no arguing, no opening.  Then, after grouping, soloing should be the second most important focus of a MMO which plan on having players like me.

     

     

    The only way to resolve the raider vs non-raider dispute is through compromise.  As a previous raider, I will agree that large raids are hard to organize, require a time commitment, and are in general more challenging then smaller group content.  Certainly, there are arguments to this, such as a caster only pressing two buttons the entire fight, and the fact that most people are more actively engaged in the fight in small groups.  I won't disagree with this as I find smaller groups more challenging as well (and believe it or not I find my style of solo play to be the most challenging of all, as I'll happily try to solo multiplayer content).  However, the bottom line is that IN GENERAL, raids are a more comprehensive and challenging fight for a larger group of people.  There MUST be some reward for that.

    By arguing that raiders deserve nothing, the argument perpetually continues with no progress made by either side.  I feel my solution satisfies the primary desires of both sides, without giving either side an advantage over the other.  Only through compromises like this can we develop solutions that are acceptable to most people.  My way or the highway just doesn't work.

  • Jimmy_ScytheJimmy_Scythe Member CommonPosts: 3,586

    Why I pressed show post I have no idea, but you are baiting with this and there is a massive irony along with that.

    Only a little bit of baiting. Regardless, those are my opinions and not really up for debate. You can try to debate the WoW soloing thing, but numbers don't lie now do they?

    I also find it funny how we've had a couple of posters here jumping on the OP as a WoW fanboi when he doesn't mention WoW, or anything WoW related, even once in his post. Just goes to show how obsessed the WoW haters are.

    BTW, I was bored to death with WoW, but I'm not going to go out of my way to belittle those that actually enjoy the game. I DO have a life after all.....

  • nomadiannomadian Member Posts: 3,490



    Only a little bit of baiting. Regardless, those are my opinions and not really up for debate. You can try to debate the WoW soloing thing, but numbers don't lie now do they?
    I don't wish to debate that but I'm sure the numbers stem from more than just because it 'includes soloing'. LOTRO includes soloing and it doesn't have 9m.


    I also find it funny how we've had a couple of posters here jumping on the OP as a WoW fanboi when he doesn't mention WoW, or anything WoW related, even once in his post. Just goes to show how obsessed the WoW haters are.
    Not sure whether you're referring to me, but the intent of the poster is following a less than receptive response to the plans of the WoW expansion, he then comes up with this. And for the record, I was playing WoW last week so my 'connection' was made without being a WoW-hater. (I think the expansion could have been alot better, at least I was expecting better)


    BTW, I was bored to death with WoW, but I'm not going to go out of my way to belittle those that actually enjoy the game. I DO have a life after all.....
    You're right belittling people that play the game is stupid and a waste of time.
  • ozmonoozmono Member UncommonPosts: 1,211

    In reply to the original topic, I like the idea of MMORPGs but I no I don't like MMORPGs and even more so than that I hate being lied to and I hate the kind of hype that these games generate when they are the same garbage just in a different bag.

  • judgebeojudgebeo Member Posts: 419

    CoX

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