and the personal attacks against the KK GM were left there for over a day before they were finally removed by the poster
For anyone who missed Shinjins post it explained in detail what a GM goes through which if I recall the post.
1. GM actions are logged (all) 2. That log is visible to people 3. They did not want to give the log total visibility as it would ruin events. 4. Everytime a GM has to do something they also have to fill out an incident report. 5. He had played a GM (in another game) and gave an informed opinion on what that entails.
It pretty much refuted a lot of what Kriminal was saying.
Originally posted by aquaangel First up if you are going to reply, don't just quote the whole previous post. It makes your posts harder to read and just clutters up the whole post. Easy. In the NC forums. Considering I started around the same time as you and I haven't quit in all that time (where as you have quit a number of times and come back) I have been playing longer then you. The fact that you quit the game and I still play means I am also still playing longer then you are. Not entirely sure where you are coming with the bias comment. If you mean I am bias against exploiters (who call themselves powergamers) or people who have no clue about the game then yes I suppose I do. Of course I didn't come into this argument totally blind. I did read up a lot on what you have gotten up to (again the NC forums. Aren't they great). As has been said numerous times all GM actions are logged.
Well I am getting a bit bored repeating myself over and over for you. Either you aren't reading anything or your just skipping over the parts which seem to point you out as wrong. So again for you... 1. They track GMs actions because there are few of them. They can see what items they made but not where the items go after they are handed over (but they can see who got them handed to them). 2. They cannot track all items in game. 3. They do not replace lost items, not because it is not possible but because some "powergamers" were using it to dupe and they totally screwed it over for the people who are playing the game. 4. The part you commented earlier (which this piece is about) relates to KK explaining how to avoid loosing items. They care, but when they have tossers.. sorry "powergamers" cheating in the game to get items it is not KKs fault when they have to stop it. It is the fault of the people who ruined it for others. Oh and when a GM spawns a item it is not GM quality. I am sure you will have a rebuttal for that but the explanation has been made pages ago (read). They could construct one with skill values but then it won't be any better then a capped constructor and it would have their name plastered all over the item (top quality items are tagged with the constructors name).
They don't treat customers like crap. They treat their customers very well, however they may of treated you like crap but anyone joining the game can just do a search on the NC forums to get a feel to why that is.
However there is an exploit that certain powergamers use to warp. I am sure you would know about this as the bug has been in the game since beta. Anyone caught doing it is normally warned then banned. Your whole "the GMs are out to get me" sounds like a one sided baseless argument. Some of the stories posted before (again on the NC forums) where such players as yourself quote such a thing KK would give indepth details as well as logs as to what happened. They only delete/lock the posts now as the person is supposed to report it through the proper channels and 99% of the complaints were completly baseless. Anti-Americanism has nothing whatsoever to do with this. I never said anything about the others. KK staff have never shown any racism and stamp extremly hard on it both in game and in the forums. Just recently an American player complained he was treated like crap by the French Players on Venus server (french speaking server) because he couldn't speak French. He was asked by KK to give them names and the people in question were warned not to do it again. You would be very hard pressed to point out that KK are racists. The only Anti they might be is Anti-you.
GMs (all kinds) have to play the game by strict rules. It may of not been the case six or seven months ago but it is most certainly the case now.
But anything that improves the game is better for the customer is it not?
Because they have said they would. Because it is a business and a business doesn't try to intentionally loose its customers despite what some people think. They might get rid of disruptive customers who are causing problems either to their servers or to other players. But what MMORPG out there doesn't do this?
I am not at liberty to say who the GM was. I am sure they show up in the GMs list though. As for things they don't want them doing? Of course they don't want GM's ruining the game, thats why they have rules in place and do random spot checks.
My friend in game overheard from someone that you routinely cheated and exploited your way through the game and were a general pest to the majority of the players in the game and he said the day you quit no one cared. Of course this is all hearsay.
Sorry but from what I have read here (and the NC forums) your defination of "powergaming" is exploiting the game mechanics to get a one up on other people in the game. KK don't punish what I call powergamers (those that play within the context of the game). They do stamp down hard on exploiters who do things like use a clipping bug to farm MC5 zone then claim they were only using cover as per the rules of the game.
Designing a better game? I do not know of any game out there that doesn't have its issue with exploiters. It has nothing to do with design, as there is nothing a group of people can't think of that can't combat 400-500 people. So you say KK don't do damage control? Like changing the game or rules to stop exploiters (which you then berate them for doing).
Give me 3 examples. Heck just give me 1 if you can't get three.
So your whole basis to the argument is you believe they are lying? I don't follow your logic.
No you read it again. They are saying in the event you totally screw your character up by say going red at an event and having your stuff looted they will not roll back your character. It has absolutly nothing to do with them disabling your character at the event (which a GM can't do and normally teleports you to darkmetal if you are being a total ass).
All other MMORPGs have the exact same stipulation. You lie to a game employee or pretend to be one you get banned.
I love the way you misquote me. I said that after being warned, it is normally the players who then say stfu to the GM get banned. They do not ban players for spamming, they warn them to stop first and normally more then once. Simple enough for you?
Again they were never intended to be put on walls. Anyone with an ounce of sense could look at the Outpost walls and say they shouldn't go there. And don't try to twist the argument about putting them into rooms. Outposts are various sizes and most if not all allow placement of turrets out in the open so they can attack people as they come in or are at a high point. Just because you think it is doesn't make it so.
Again. Abusing the name system (ie. exploiting the game mechanics) you are no longer a customer for doing that. You are in fact destroying the game. Again you try to twist with another allowed issue, but as I said your defination of what is allowed is called exploiting.
Yes they have. Its called the "Page GM" option in the top right of the screen. Boss dungeons do not respawn until people leave (to make them harder to get the items). Your story to claim you were not sabotaging is total BS and a GM would know within 2 minutes of turning up that the person was being disruptive.
*sigh* I am sure you know the full reasons so this is for other people. Attacking a guard is not exploiting. You will die. If you are low level you will probably gain CON. Attacking and respawning over and over to level CON by attacking a guard is exploiting as it causes serious problems in the zone you are doing it in to other people in the game. Some spots people do this is at Medicare (heavy player spot) or Outzone station. So please don't go on as if they ban people for attacking guards, far from it.
and that is so strange considering I have never had any problems with GMs, as have many others. Yourself seems to have had some run ins with GMs yet you were not banned, you quit the game. For the last time, you quit a long time ago. you are hardly a good reviewer for the game. You can post a reply if you want but you have made it quite clear what kind of player you are and to be honest the game is better without you.
What makes you think you know how long ago I started playing? Ive been following the game since its conception and beta tested it... And I still have friends that play the game I know damn well what goes on there now. Don't give me this bull crap that noone can no how bad the game is because if they play it "oh your still playing it so you must not care that much" and if they aren't then its "Well you don't play it anymore so you don't know". What do you WORK for kk or something or are you just some kind of extreme fanboi?
Its been said numerous times by YOU that ALL gms actions are logged and numerous times I have pointed out that I believe this is a LIE. A company rep specifically said on the forums at one point that it wouldn't be possible to monitor all gm actions. I also once suggested on the forums that maybe they should have some kind of flash that alerted players to gms taking action so that they would know and could consider weather it was fair for a gm to take action. Again company reps said they would never do stuff like this because they want to handle gms internally.
What is wrong with you? I KNOW 90% of what you are saying is not true from personal experience of dealing with KK's gms and employees and listening to fellow gamers that had no reason to or wouldn't lie about the stuff they are saying. Why do you keep repeating it? The only gm actions that are actions that only gms can take. Every time you have made something up I ask you were you got that from and the only place you have claimed to have gotten your information is the website or things reps have said officially to try and keep up their rep despite the kind of stuff they do. You seem to take it on 100% faith that everything KK says is true. Obviously KK is not going to say "Hey are system is really crappy, customers get screwed all the time, we treat them like crap etc"
But even the things you say hint at this all the time. They don't keep track of items why? Oh because YOU CUSTOMERS SCREWED IT UP. Nevermind it was KK's error in design that allowed for the duping of items, and nevermind that it was only a few people who duped items to begin with.
And NO that thing on the page ISNT about being careful of losing items. Its a threat that gms will nuke your character if you piss them off at events. what part of "BE CAREFUL HOW YOU SELECT YOUR TARGETS" do you think has anything to do with losing items at events. And btw it said this even more directly up until a few weeks ago.
There is a thin line between powergamers and exploiters, but the point of my bringing it up was to point out that KK punishes POWERGAMERS not just exploiters. Alot of people enjoy powergaming, you obviously do not by virtue of how you group them together with exploiters. My point was to warn powergamers that they will eventually have a bad run in with a GM.
Who said anything about what quality items gms can SPAWN? Not that you know what you are talking about...
What are you talking about "people could do a search on the forums" and see why its ok for KK to treat their customers like crap? Everyone that reads the forum here already knows that I like to debate stuff and alot of times claiming to know somehting makes people angry at you. But I always react much less harshly in return to people then they do at me. So so far you yourself have admitted that you know that and its OK that KK treats both Powergamers and people that like to debate like crap. Id wager thats not the limit of the groups of people you like that KK treats like crap.
Ok first of all I have NEVER seen a post where KK has done anything but basically told the poster to shutup and lock the thread in response to a complaint against unfair things gms were doing on the forums, and I spent alot of time browsing the forums there. Id like to see even ONE of these threads where they supposedly posted logs in response to a complaint on a gm. The reason there are now "proper channels" is because they want their gms to be able to do certain things without everyone finding out and getting mad about it. I have no clue what you are talking about "a bug that allows people to warp". How would that even work for crying out loud? I am talking about just running from point A to point B. All you do is press the forward key. If that isn't a clear indication that you are trying to decieve readers here then I don't know what is.
I am telling the readers here that I was confronted, threatened etc by a gm for no reason in game, and then cursed out by a gm by pm, and then insulted by a company rep on the forums. I have had GM's try to stonewall me when trying to report their friends for exploiting, and when I went around the gm and went through "proper channels" nothing happened. And many other people I have spoken to have had the same experiences. I am offering my personal experiences and an analyzation (something I am good at) of their system which I believe is screwed up. I wouldn't care weather the "GM's are out to get me" or not. I am just sharing information with other consumers so they can make more informed decisions.
I never said KK was racist and true they have stamped out any sign of racism on the forums or in game. I am saying that GM's are not paid and have way to much power and have no motivation not to use their powers for whatever they think is right. (however rediculous that might be in the eyes of other players) Again I would like to point out to anyone reading this that you advocate KK mistreating customers who have not done anything wrong just based on weather you like them or not.
Police are supposedly under strict rules as well. Have you not ever heard of them doing things like knocking out peoples headlights and giving them a ticket, or dealing with criminals, or mistreating people for no reason? They do this because they aren't paid enough. They feel that they are mainly police for their own reasons, and therefore these reasons should determine how they use their authority. Objectivity costs money. If you think putting volunteer gms in positions where they are responsible for determing exploits, banning people, punishing people for their behavior in events etc is not a problem then you are naive.
KK's main motives are not to "improve the game". A buisness's motive is to make money. Specifically it seems to me that they at first wanted to create a great product and hopefully make money for it, but were not prepared for the reality of running a business. They lacked the understanding of psychology and sociology to deal with customers and have become sour. You have pointed this out yourself by citing one of many examples where they punished all their customers for the actions of one or two. And I was saying that they may only get gms in trouble for doing things that piss players off where the players can see, or doing things which the company themselves do not like for their own reasons such as contradicting a company rep's actions etc.
AHAH. What is the reason you are arguing with me? What is the reason you think everything you are saying is true? WHat is the reason you think they handle all problems fairly? QUOTE: "Because they have said they would. " You believe them just because they said so. Anotherwords they haven't broken your trust yet. Well there are many many players whose trust they have broken, and you can believe everyone does not and should not take everything KK says on good faith.
Yes KK doesn't want to lose customers. But they think they can do it just by making it appear like they handle things fairly, even though there system is very poor. They think that once customers play the game, the game will be good enough to make people overlook how screwed up their dealing with customers is (which has proven to be true to some degree, althought the game isn't even that good the way it is now). And for people looking into the game they think they can just squelch everyone who has been screwed over by them so that new customers will have no idea what they are getting into. Which is why I made a thread about them here....
And they do not treat their customers well. I had a friend who lost EVERYTHING he had to a stupid backpack bug (that effected many many other customers as well) including things that could not be regained without deleting and restarting his character, and why couldn't they help him? Because "you customers had the chance but you screwed it up by trying to trick us". Please.
Not at liberty to say, yeah right. You are full of it my friend. What gm list? and what spot checks. Do you believe everything KK says? Your entire argument seems to revolve around your naiveity. Have you ever worked anywhere that involved dealing with customers or in a customer service department? What you speak of is like a perfect buisness enviornment which does not exist. SOME companies get close by having someone that truly understands people and wants to provide a good service at the top and who shares this with people under him and enforces this attitude. 90% of them the managers are right there with the customer service (of any time) cursing out half the customers behind their backs only putting on a charade as long as they have to.
First of all thats not even heresay thats a lie. Noone ever accused me of cheating and I never did. And many people were sorry to see me go, like the clan full of originally new players I helped learn the game for instance... Second my point about heresay is that to the reader its ALL heresay. If they determine that I am honest then they must determine if the people I have heard things from are honest, and the only way they can do that is by determining if I am honest and competent enough to do so myself before stating what they said. Heresay is worth what its worth to the reader, there is no reason to refrain from sharing it the reader judges everything you say anyways.
KK DOES punish powergamers, and btw what you call a clipping bug many other people may not even realize is a bug. Furthermore people have been punished for much simpler things like just hiding behind a wall and shooting, or placing artillery turrets on a wall (duh where else) which you admitted yourself. Before things become rules dumb gms just arbitrarilly go around banning people for things they think are unfair. IE you could be just making a wall gun emplacement and get banned before anyone even told you not to do that. This has even been brought up and argued on the forums before, before it was squelched so people can't find out what gms are up to that is.
I was not saying that it is probable for a game to not have ANY bugs. I am saying that a company can always do better, can certainly have tested better for bugs before realeasing a game, can deal with them quicker etc. I am saying that in a decent company damage control would be fixing a bug and designing a game better not threatening and punishing paying customers. And certainly not punishing them just for things you don't like and that they had no idea you didn't want them doing. If someone is hacking your server ok open a can of whoopass, but not for something in which you are just as responsible for as the players.
So the whole basis of YOUR entire argument is that you believe everything they say? I don't just think they are lying, I have seen them use dishonesty many times and it should be evident in the way they prevent players from posting anything having to do with them on their forums...
Why on earth would someone be anymore likely to go red at an event then they do anywhere else? Besides which there was more in that rule before that pointed out that they were saying gms could take action against you for misbehavior in an event. I believe you misunderstand it.
Ok I Said that other companies have the rule against lying ONLY when you do it with bad intentions and most other companies do. The fact that kk does not say this points out that they feel they have the right to ban their customers for any possible reason. Most companies are very careful about how they word threats to their customers, KK is not.
I didn't misquoute you at all. You are still CONFIRMING what I am saying. The gm doesn't ban someone for spamming, he bans them because he doesn't like them. Thats what it means to ban someone for saying stfu.
I JUST TOLD YOU someone from kk SAID artillery turrets were supposed to go on walls at first. All outposts have buildings with roofs, and some have walls that you can walk on around the outpost. Most of the outposts have alot of FENCING which you wouldn't put them on, that is obvious. putting an artillery target on the ground inside the OP is practically useless and putting one outside is likely to get you in trouble for genrep camping, when it was even possible that is.
Regarding the name thing, you are demonstrating the same level of naivity as KK. My view is necessitated by the nature of difficulty of dealing with customers and SUBJECTIVITY. Your view is self centered and vindictive. When you run a company you cannot just have a set group of things you think are fair or unfair and attack any customers that don't adhere to YOUR beliefs. And its not even one person with KK its all the different beliefs of their gms.
There are plenty of tricks that can be done with names, people could do them in real life and this is a ROLEPLAYING GAME. For example in NEW YORK there once was a hole in the wall pizza place named RAY'S and everyone loved it. Now there are hundreds of RAY'S pizza places in New york with slightly different names. You can murder random people in role playing games to play a bad guy, but people are just supposed to assume they can try and trick people? No it doesn't make sense and its especially screwed up that gms can get peoople in trouble for stuff like this before they are even rules.
A GM cannot easily determine anything about a players intentions and most probably do not care to either. If they like the people who paged the gm they will ban you. If they like you or dont care they might not. It has nothing to do with weather or not you were really trying to sabotage a dungeon. I thought I already said this but a good example is like when leveling in the Graves and they want to respawn just to kill the boss monster over and over when there are tons of other mobs in there. And you might be a droner that can't even hunt without enough time to find a good position etc. If the people in the dungeon are friends with a gm, he could just show up and ban you and never even be questioned about it. But I suppose you are too naive to consider a situation like this and just assume the world is perfect because KK told you so?
They do ban people for leveling con. Don't you think its common sense that if a player has already died at a genrep and they gained a con level by being shot by a guard they might go back and do it again to gain some more con? Do you realize how many silly rules there are like this to keep track of? And whats to stop a gm from claiming you were exploiting if you even attack a guard once if he wants to?
Yes I had unfair treatment by gms that is why I am here. What is your point? I did not quit "a long time ago", just a few months. I have played the game for the majority of its existence, I still know people playing, and nothing indicates that anything has changed. You know nothing of what kind of player I am. If anything I would be a good person to have in a community to challenge and further ideas... And just to let you know I help other players adapt and learn in mmorpgs. Anyone who has read this far would probably realize this is true.
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First up, shijins post which is now deleted listed in detail what a GM does in Neocron and how much logging took place. It basically refuted everything you said to this point. I am sure Shinjin if he was was bothered would repost it.
So you think they are lying. Fine, keep thinking that and when you come back again and get banned. I can't help it if you are incapable of actually reading what you are quoting.
Threads over.
Ps. I am a beta player too, and have never once quit. You on the other hand have quit numerous times and no longer play the game. So yes I have played the game longer then you. Get over it.
Originally posted by aquaangel First up, shijins post which is now deleted listed in detail what a GM does in Neocron and how much logging took place. It basically refuted everything you said to this point. I am sure Shinjin if he was was bothered would repost it. So you think they are lying. Fine, keep thinking that and when you come back again and get banned. I can't help it if you are incapable of actually reading what you are quoting. Threads over. Ps. I am a beta player too, and have never once quit. You on the other hand have quit numerous times and no longer play the game. So yes I have played the game longer then you. Get over it.
Oh yeah sure whatever you say man. Considering almost no threads ever get deleted on their forums and the only time they ever would delete a thread is when there is something so controversial in it they don't even want a locked version of it to fuel arguments...
Why would I get banned even if I did come back? I never broke any stated rules and wouldn't plan to. Purposely banning me simply for telling people about how badly they do buisness (if they even knew or cared I was doing it) would open them up to a law suit for breach of contract. With a strong case like that as a base where it would be obvious they were dishonest it could easily open them up to a class action suit so everyone who had been banned could get revenge. I don't think they are THAT stupid.
Your welcome Dragon, and here is a link to a thread that demonstrates the kind of thing that I am talking about. Notice how the gm can't spell and many players think that the person had done nothing wrong and say there was never any rule against what the thread starter was doing.
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Hmm... Hoverbike stuck you say? When did you play the game last? The problem with vehicles being stuck has been fixed for some time now, Even if you leave your vehicle for 20 minutes to go hunting or such the vehicle automaticly returns to the ASG garage... What patch did you last have? it's now up to 200. Please don't say that there are not events in Neocron, there have been alot on Pluto server lately as for the other servers I'm not sure and I've not seen a complaint about a GM playing favorites in a while. Sound s more like you got your pee pee spanked for doing something wrong in-game and your venting here because you got banned from the forums there. Buy Neocron you can't go wrong, you can pick in up for $5.00 now on EBay or at a game store if it's in stock that's better then when it first came out. Now with Sept 1st coming up with the release of Neocron-Beyond the Dome of York it's going to be even better.
Wow after reading all this, good & bad. There is no way I'd ever play this game. The previous corruption of those that ran and maintained the game to the obvious issues that may or may not exist today... Negative publicity is not good...
I used to enjoy this game until an incident one night left me totally disgusted. I will relate.
A low level friend of mine was hunting in an area called Outzone. For those unfamiliar, it is beyond a slum section of town, it is practically abandoned and very dangerous. PvP is encouraged in this game, and my buddy got jumped by 4 players from a rival faction repeatedly. Okay, so he asks me to come and lay a hurting on his opponents. Okay I say, and I bring two friends to help. Remember, this is a PvP game, this stuff happens this way. Okay, we show up in the zone, we find the four players and butcher three of them. Without warning, we walk into the courtyard and open fire. The fourth manages to flee into another zone. We don't chase, we just hang around our lower level friend to make sure he's okay.
About two minutes later, they've regrouped and try to take us on, and are promptly slaughtered. We didn't even fire first, we just stood there and said, if you attack our buddy here, you die. Okay, all four die. We hang out because we know they'll be back. Two minutes later, they return, except all four go strait for our low level friend, and the three of us more powerful players are killed within a span of 5 seconds by unseen sources. Hmm, WTF we think. One of us was stealthed awaiting the return of our 4 enemies, and was far away from the rest of us. I was a maxed out tank with power armor, and buffed up from the Passive Psi Monk who was our third companion. What this means in game terms is that we died within seconds of each other in one hit from an unseen source. A buffed max level power armor tank would need a thermal nuclear explosion down his pants to kill him in one shot. The Spy at the zone line (who was in stealth) would have seen any high level friends who came with them.
We had our suspicions, so our Spy first snuck in stealthed and verified the 4 of them were there, and no one else. Then, on a hunch, I walked into the zone and announced zonewide that I'm going to kill the 4, no hard feelings. Three seconds later, both myself and the spy, AND the psi monk in the next zone were dead. The Psi monk was in the subway, which is an area you can't PvP in.
I return to the zone a minute later, and call out verbal abuses to the GM to goad him out. I was dead in seconds. When I respawned, I received a serious of private messages from a GM telling me...well telling me that I am a female body part. I take a screenshot, and send my grievences along with my screenshots to their customer service. I am told that because screenshots can be doctored they cannot verify what happened and cannot take action against the GM. I respond by asking them to check their logs, because they can see things like a GM auto-killing someone. They refuse, claiming that these are internal policies that they do not violate. I respond by saying that if they do not at least pretend to check their logs or investigate the GM, I will terminate my account. They say once again that it is a violation of their policies bla bla bla. I log into my character to say goodbye to my friends, and notice that all of my tank's rare items and armor are mysteriously gone. I say goodbye to my friends, and I leave and cancel my account. My two high level friends also quit over this, and my low level friend did not renew his account, and told me that he had been harrassed by mysterious incidents over the next few days of his newbie career.
I will never play this game again, which is sad because I enjoyed it. I also suspect the developers are prejudiced against any and all American players because of some of their past actions.
Thats exactly the kind of stuff that happened to me. Noone realizes how full of shit they are when they say "oh gms don't ever do anything wrong, if they did wed know instantly etc" blah blah blah
It doesn't matter what the gms do they only even barely attempt to make it sound like the victim might be making it up, and some people are naive enough to believe that all the people complaining are lying.
Hey constantine, do you have a way to post the screen of the gm cursing you out here?
Also here is a link showing peoples frustration at KK's random banning principles. Notice how the people talking make it clear that whatever was done was obviously not cited as being against the rules yet the KK rep responds as if it clearly was in an attempt to decieve.
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"Also here is a link showing peoples frustration at KK's random banning principles. Notice how the people talking make it clear that whatever was done was obviously not cited as being against the rules yet the KK rep responds as if it clearly was in an attempt to decieve. "
the only person claiming it was not against the rules was Vet, who's friends were banned. No one else agreed in any way. Don't be misleading.
I don't care how you shape it, changing files to give someone an advantage, however small, is cheating/exploiting and it should be punished.
"Your welcome Dragon, and here is a link to a thread that demonstrates the kind of thing that I am talking about. Notice how the gm can't spell and many players think that the person had done nothing wrong and say there was never any rule against what the thread starter was doing. "
Oh no, a GM that made a typo, whatever shall we do, the world is melting. Not only that but you link to a thread that is 10 months old. Way to put forward a recent arguement.
Why would I get banned even if I did come back? I never broke any stated rules and wouldn't plan to. Purposely banning me simply for telling people about how badly they do buisness (if they even knew or cared I was doing it) would open them up to a law suit for breach of contract. With a strong case like that as a base where it would be obvious they were dishonest it could easily open them up to a class action suit so everyone who had been banned could get revenge. I don't think they are THAT stupid.
The EULA of just about any online game states in so many words or less that they can ban you for any reason what so ever, including no reason at all and you typically agree to this every time you login. Your lawsuit for breach of contract would never go anywhere and it's totally amusing (we are still giggling over here) you'd even mention such a ridiclous thing over an online game that costs less than $14.00 a month.
Constantine, did you by chance play on the Pluto server? The reason I ask is because I had a similar experience there, but it was resolved. A friend of mine was also killed by a group of players, and when I intervened I too met with mysterious circumstances. I had suspicions, and when I logged in to my account to find all of my items gone, I contacted a GM ingame at once. After a little bit of investigation, the GM promised to look into things, but it would take a few days. I gave him my email and waited, as there was no point in playing with no equipment. In a few days, someone from Neocron's support sent an email of apology.
It seems that there was indeed a corrupt GM helping out his friends, and the company became aware of it after a number of players brought similar complaints to them. He would abuse his powers, give free items to his friends, instantly kill anyone who managed to best them, then remove their items or otherwise harass them. My equipment was returned with sincere apologies. This would have been about eight months ago. I do not remember the GMs name, I never actually received threatening messages from him but I did feel some of his harassment.
I believe that Neocron has some communications breakdowns on occasion, especially misinterpeted English/German messages. I saw enough to convince me that there were at least a few good GMs. I have not played Neocron in a few months, but I'm tempted to return every now and then, especially if BDOY works out well. I think that the upcoming expansion has forced the Neocron developers to seriously crack down on corrupt GMs to make the game more appealing to new players.
The problems from eight months ago are just that from eight months ago, I'm very active in NC on the Pluto server and have not seen or heard of anything like that since then and I only heard about it after the fact.
Originally posted by Seamus The problems from eight months ago are just that from eight months ago, I'm very active in NC on the Pluto server and have not seen or heard of anything like that since then and I only heard about it after the fact.
Neocron is worth a second chance.
I play on pluto aswell and seem to remember an incedent like that but it was corrected
Why would I get banned even if I did come back? I never broke any stated rules and wouldn't plan to. Purposely banning me simply for telling people about how badly they do buisness (if they even knew or cared I was doing it) would open them up to a law suit for breach of contract. With a strong case like that as a base where it would be obvious they were dishonest it could easily open them up to a class action suit so everyone who had been banned could get revenge. I don't think they are THAT stupid.
The EULA of just about any online game states in so many words or less that they can ban you for any reason what so ever, including no reason at all and you typically agree to this every time you login. Your lawsuit for breach of contract would never go anywhere and it's totally amusing (we are still giggling over here) you'd even mention such a ridiclous thing over an online game that costs less than $14.00 a month.
~Ziggen~
Im not familiar with internet law, but usually if a company conducts buisness somewhere in the US they can be sued there and clauses stating otherwise are void. Other international companies are not exempt from this. As for the amount of money involved, that is why it would only be worth it as a "class action suit" The idea is someone shows that they were banned for a totally illegitemate reason and then other people do the same and then it becomes a thing where the court orders the company to pay a large amount of money based on the estimated number of people aggrieved and then anyone involved can get their money back. However usually not all the people show up especially when it is only $14 per person. No most companies don't have policies that say they can ban you for any reason or else noone would buy the game obviously. And even when a contract does have something like that courts will usually not uphold them, for different reasons depending on how its worded. Im glad you find your own ignorance amusing.
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Im not familiar with internet law, but usually if a company conducts buisness somewhere in the US they can be sued there and clauses stating otherwise are void. Other international companies are not exempt from this. As for the amount of money involved, that is why it would only be worth it as a "class action suit" The idea is someone shows that they were banned for a totally illegitemate reason and then other people do the same and then it becomes a thing where the court orders the company to pay a large amount of money based on the estimated number of people aggrieved and then anyone involved can get their money back. However usually not all the people show up especially when it is only $14 per person. No most companies don't have policies that say they can ban you for any reason or else noone would buy the game obviously. And even when a contract does have something like that courts will usually not uphold them, for different reasons depending on how its worded. Im glad you find your own ignorance amusing.
I'm obviously conversing with a kid but just for the hell of it I'll continue...
You have clearly convinced me that you have definatly not read, or simply not understood the EULA of every online game you may have ever played. Check out the liability clause in some of them... they set specific amounts of liability 1 months fees, $1 ect. You specifically agree to this every time you login. Who do you think writes these terms and conditions? You don't think these folks know the law? They are using very specific wording to give you no rights what-so-ever to their virtual 1's and 0's.
The company actually needs to break a law or right for you to successfully launch a class action suit. Look at ultima online, they had a huge class action suit against them. Their servers sucked, they banned like crazy and you know what happend... nothing. You have absolutly zero, less than zero chance of suing this online game company. Check out this suit: http://www.video-fenky.com/archives/000222.html against linage. See they actually have a valid reason to file and they have over 1000 people joining in. However you'll never see such a case in the USA, not today at least. There are way too little laws Governing the net.
If the game servers were down 50% of the time and there was total data corruption and they were charging you significantly more to play than another state, and you got togeather 1000 folks to sue them, you'd have a teeny tiny chance of winning. More than likely you'd just provide them some free advertising lol.
We can tell your upset. You cheated, you got caught. Get over it. Stop fantasizing about something that's not realistic or going to happen. Oh and by the way, get a new handle... if you dont see the sad irony of being acused and punished for a crime with the name of Kriminal then your totally lost lol.
I never played this game. looked at it when it was in beat (although never played beta) and looked at this forum to see if I would like to play the game. Have to say the came sounds good, but the community/administration would ruin it for me. I hear a lot of complaining from different sources about GM abuse and lack of maintance. I noticed with the exception of a few that most of the "people" defending the game registered the same day they posted which leads me to beleive there isn't even that much support for the game.
Also, I would just like to add that K99 is making the rest of you sound like fools. It's apparent the three of you that have been arguing with him are fanboys and probably the crooked GM's the posters have been complaining about. It sounds a lot like some guys who got together to make a game because they wanted to be ubber.
Originally posted by bverji It sounds a lot like some guys who got together to make a game because they wanted to be ubber.
haha thx m8 that made me laugh, im hoping its a joke or i really do have to worry.
And all Ill add is that Im finding it sad that a few instances in the past of gm corruption which the company sorted out promptly after they were made aware of it has been blown out of proportion so much. Please remember GMs are volunteers and although they can screen them to a certain extent they cant guarantee how they will act under certain situations. It seems kk just had too much faith in people and extended their good will a bit too much, now they have solved the problems mainly by implementing gm logging and reducing the powers of a gm to a fraction of what they used to be.
Originally posted by cyphor haha thx m8 that made me laugh, im hoping its a joke or i really do have to worry. And all Ill add is that Im finding it sad that a few instances in the past of gm corruption which the company sorted out promptly after they were made aware of it has been blown out of proportion so much. Please remember GMs are volunteers and although they can screen them to a certain extent they cant guarantee how they will act under certain situations. It seems kk just had too much faith in people and extended their good will a bit too much, now they have solved the problems mainly by implementing gm logging and reducing the powers of a gm to a fraction of what they used to be.
They SAY they've implemented logging. KK says ALOT of things that turn out to be rather untrue. I take any statement that anything has changed as a bold faced lie untill I see evidence of it, plain and simple.
I'm obviously conversing with a kid but just for the hell of it I'll continue...
You have clearly convinced me that you have definatly not read, or simply not understood the EULA of every online game you may have ever played. Check out the liability clause in some of them... they set specific amounts of liability 1 months fees, $1 ect. You specifically agree to this every time you login. Who do you think writes these terms and conditions? You don't think these folks know the law? They are using very specific wording to give you no rights what-so-ever to their virtual 1's and 0's.
The company actually needs to break a law or right for you to successfully launch a class action suit. Look at ultima online, they had a huge class action suit against them. Their servers sucked, they banned like crazy and you know what happend... nothing. You have absolutly zero, less than zero chance of suing this online game company. Check out this suit: http://www.video-fenky.com/archives/000222.html against linage. See they actually have a valid reason to file and they have over 1000 people joining in. However you'll never see such a case in the USA, not today at least. There are way too little laws Governing the net.
If the game servers were down 50% of the time and there was total data corruption and they were charging you significantly more to play than another state, and you got togeather 1000 folks to sue them, you'd have a teeny tiny chance of winning. More than likely you'd just provide them some free advertising lol.
We can tell your upset. You cheated, you got caught. Get over it. Stop fantasizing about something that's not realistic or going to happen. Oh and by the way, get a new handle... if you dont see the sad irony of being acused and punished for a crime with the name of Kriminal then your totally lost lol.
~Ziggen~
Lol Know which law? No one contract can adhere to the laws of every place it could possibly be enforced. In the realm of reality, contracts of international companies that use the same contract for every where they do buisness usually have something like 50% of the clauses immedietly disregarded. If they are designed for a specific location its obviously going to be much less, however it is a well known business tactic to design such contracts with clauses that cannot be enforced simply because they know that some people like you out there will be ignorant enough to believe them and will be intimidated by them.
However it is not intelligent to do this to the point where your customers wont want to do buisness with you, and I actually read the agreements with every mmo company I ever tried. Most of them DO NOT say anything even remotely resembling that they could ban you for any reason they want, and if they did say that you can bet that I would not play them.
If a company truly tried to claim that they could deny you service at any time for no legimate reason then the entire contract would be void at least in the United States for the reason of no consideration. The idea that something is being exchanged is the foundation of a contract....
Previous cases about an issue, especially when dealing with relatively new territorry are not a guarantee that future cases will not be won. Even if its on the exact same issue. There are plenty of times throughout history where judges went the wrong way on an issue and future judges dealt with the issue differently. Often times it only takes someone to show the issue in the correct light, and the right judge to change precedent.
But I seriously doubt that any other company was stupid enough to start banning people just because they don't like them anyways, which is the only case in which I would even bother and is what I said...
I never cheated, I was never banned, and I have no clue what you are talking about. But trying to project this image on to someone simply because you lose an argument makes obvious what your level of reasoning skills is. And about the name, yeah thats brilliant. Lets go around and ban everyone who has any handle other than "model citizen".
Originally posted by bverji It sounds a lot like some guys who got together to make a game because they wanted to be uber.
AHAHHAHA Yeah thats pretty much what it seems like oftentimes.
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Comments
Openly attacking people is not tolerated.
Watch your language.
--------------------
Alex "Maximane" De Line
- MMORPG.COM Staff -
and the personal attacks against the KK GM were left there for over a day before they were finally removed by the poster
For anyone who missed Shinjins post it explained in detail what a GM goes through which if I recall the post.
1. GM actions are logged (all)
2. That log is visible to people
3. They did not want to give the log total visibility as it would ruin events.
4. Everytime a GM has to do something they also have to fill out an incident report.
5. He had played a GM (in another game) and gave an informed opinion on what that entails.
It pretty much refuted a lot of what Kriminal was saying.
What makes you think you know how long ago I started playing? Ive been following the game since its conception and beta tested it... And I still have friends that play the game I know damn well what goes on there now. Don't give me this bull crap that noone can no how bad the game is because if they play it "oh your still playing it so you must not care that much" and if they aren't then its "Well you don't play it anymore so you don't know". What do you WORK for kk or something or are you just some kind of extreme fanboi?
Its been said numerous times by YOU that ALL gms actions are logged and numerous times I have pointed out that I believe this is a LIE. A company rep specifically said on the forums at one point that it wouldn't be possible to monitor all gm actions. I also once suggested on the forums that maybe they should have some kind of flash that alerted players to gms taking action so that they would know and could consider weather it was fair for a gm to take action. Again company reps said they would never do stuff like this because they want to handle gms internally.
What is wrong with you? I KNOW 90% of what you are saying is not true from personal experience of dealing with KK's gms and employees and listening to fellow gamers that had no reason to or wouldn't lie about the stuff they are saying. Why do you keep repeating it? The only gm actions that are actions that only gms can take. Every time you have made something up I ask you were you got that from and the only place you have claimed to have gotten your information is the website or things reps have said officially to try and keep up their rep despite the kind of stuff they do. You seem to take it on 100% faith that everything KK says is true. Obviously KK is not going to say "Hey are system is really crappy, customers get screwed all the time, we treat them like crap etc"
But even the things you say hint at this all the time. They don't keep track of items why? Oh because YOU CUSTOMERS SCREWED IT UP. Nevermind it was KK's error in design that allowed for the duping of items, and nevermind that it was only a few people who duped items to begin with.
And NO that thing on the page ISNT about being careful of losing items. Its a threat that gms will nuke your character if you piss them off at events. what part of "BE CAREFUL HOW YOU SELECT YOUR TARGETS" do you think has anything to do with losing items at events. And btw it said this even more directly up until a few weeks ago.
There is a thin line between powergamers and exploiters, but the point of my bringing it up was to point out that KK punishes POWERGAMERS not just exploiters. Alot of people enjoy powergaming, you obviously do not by virtue of how you group them together with exploiters. My point was to warn powergamers that they will eventually have a bad run in with a GM.
Who said anything about what quality items gms can SPAWN? Not that you know what you are talking about...
What are you talking about "people could do a search on the forums" and see why its ok for KK to treat their customers like crap? Everyone that reads the forum here already knows that I like to debate stuff and alot of times claiming to know somehting makes people angry at you. But I always react much less harshly in return to people then they do at me. So so far you yourself have admitted that you know that and its OK that KK treats both Powergamers and people that like to debate like crap. Id wager thats not the limit of the groups of people you like that KK treats like crap.
Ok first of all I have NEVER seen a post where KK has done anything but basically told the poster to shutup and lock the thread in response to a complaint against unfair things gms were doing on the forums, and I spent alot of time browsing the forums there. Id like to see even ONE of these threads where they supposedly posted logs in response to a complaint on a gm. The reason there are now "proper channels" is because they want their gms to be able to do certain things without everyone finding out and getting mad about it. I have no clue what you are talking about "a bug that allows people to warp". How would that even work for crying out loud? I am talking about just running from point A to point B. All you do is press the forward key. If that isn't a clear indication that you are trying to decieve readers here then I don't know what is.
I am telling the readers here that I was confronted, threatened etc by a gm for no reason in game, and then cursed out by a gm by pm, and then insulted by a company rep on the forums. I have had GM's try to stonewall me when trying to report their friends for exploiting, and when I went around the gm and went through "proper channels" nothing happened. And many other people I have spoken to have had the same experiences. I am offering my personal experiences and an analyzation (something I am good at) of their system which I believe is screwed up. I wouldn't care weather the "GM's are out to get me" or not. I am just sharing information with other consumers so they can make more informed decisions.
I never said KK was racist and true they have stamped out any sign of racism on the forums or in game. I am saying that GM's are not paid and have way to much power and have no motivation not to use their powers for whatever they think is right. (however rediculous that might be in the eyes of other players) Again I would like to point out to anyone reading this that you advocate KK mistreating customers who have not done anything wrong just based on weather you like them or not.
Police are supposedly under strict rules as well. Have you not ever heard of them doing things like knocking out peoples headlights and giving them a ticket, or dealing with criminals, or mistreating people for no reason? They do this because they aren't paid enough. They feel that they are mainly police for their own reasons, and therefore these reasons should determine how they use their authority. Objectivity costs money. If you think putting volunteer gms in positions where they are responsible for determing exploits, banning people, punishing people for their behavior in events etc is not a problem then you are naive.
KK's main motives are not to "improve the game". A buisness's motive is to make money. Specifically it seems to me that they at first wanted to create a great product and hopefully make money for it, but were not prepared for the reality of running a business. They lacked the understanding of psychology and sociology to deal with customers and have become sour. You have pointed this out yourself by citing one of many examples where they punished all their customers for the actions of one or two. And I was saying that they may only get gms in trouble for doing things that piss players off where the players can see, or doing things which the company themselves do not like for their own reasons such as contradicting a company rep's actions etc.
AHAH. What is the reason you are arguing with me? What is the reason you think everything you are saying is true? WHat is the reason you think they handle all problems fairly? QUOTE: "Because they have said they would. " You believe them just because they said so. Anotherwords they haven't broken your trust yet. Well there are many many players whose trust they have broken, and you can believe everyone does not and should not take everything KK says on good faith.
Yes KK doesn't want to lose customers. But they think they can do it just by making it appear like they handle things fairly, even though there system is very poor. They think that once customers play the game, the game will be good enough to make people overlook how screwed up their dealing with customers is (which has proven to be true to some degree, althought the game isn't even that good the way it is now). And for people looking into the game they think they can just squelch everyone who has been screwed over by them so that new customers will have no idea what they are getting into. Which is why I made a thread about them here....
And they do not treat their customers well. I had a friend who lost EVERYTHING he had to a stupid backpack bug (that effected many many other customers as well) including things that could not be regained without deleting and restarting his character, and why couldn't they help him? Because "you customers had the chance but you screwed it up by trying to trick us". Please.
Not at liberty to say, yeah right. You are full of it my friend. What gm list? and what spot checks. Do you believe everything KK says? Your entire argument seems to revolve around your naiveity. Have you ever worked anywhere that involved dealing with customers or in a customer service department? What you speak of is like a perfect buisness enviornment which does not exist. SOME companies get close by having someone that truly understands people and wants to provide a good service at the top and who shares this with people under him and enforces this attitude. 90% of them the managers are right there with the customer service (of any time) cursing out half the customers behind their backs only putting on a charade as long as they have to.
First of all thats not even heresay thats a lie. Noone ever accused me of cheating and I never did. And many people were sorry to see me go, like the clan full of originally new players I helped learn the game for instance... Second my point about heresay is that to the reader its ALL heresay. If they determine that I am honest then they must determine if the people I have heard things from are honest, and the only way they can do that is by determining if I am honest and competent enough to do so myself before stating what they said. Heresay is worth what its worth to the reader, there is no reason to refrain from sharing it the reader judges everything you say anyways.
KK DOES punish powergamers, and btw what you call a clipping bug many other people may not even realize is a bug. Furthermore people have been punished for much simpler things like just hiding behind a wall and shooting, or placing artillery turrets on a wall (duh where else) which you admitted yourself. Before things become rules dumb gms just arbitrarilly go around banning people for things they think are unfair. IE you could be just making a wall gun emplacement and get banned before anyone even told you not to do that. This has even been brought up and argued on the forums before, before it was squelched so people can't find out what gms are up to that is.
I was not saying that it is probable for a game to not have ANY bugs. I am saying that a company can always do better, can certainly have tested better for bugs before realeasing a game, can deal with them quicker etc. I am saying that in a decent company damage control would be fixing a bug and designing a game better not threatening and punishing paying customers. And certainly not punishing them just for things you don't like and that they had no idea you didn't want them doing. If someone is hacking your server ok open a can of whoopass, but not for something in which you are just as responsible for as the players.
So the whole basis of YOUR entire argument is that you believe everything they say? I don't just think they are lying, I have seen them use dishonesty many times and it should be evident in the way they prevent players from posting anything having to do with them on their forums...
Why on earth would someone be anymore likely to go red at an event then they do anywhere else? Besides which there was more in that rule before that pointed out that they were saying gms could take action against you for misbehavior in an event. I believe you misunderstand it.
Ok I Said that other companies have the rule against lying ONLY when you do it with bad intentions and most other companies do. The fact that kk does not say this points out that they feel they have the right to ban their customers for any possible reason. Most companies are very careful about how they word threats to their customers, KK is not.
I didn't misquoute you at all. You are still CONFIRMING what I am saying. The gm doesn't ban someone for spamming, he bans them because he doesn't like them. Thats what it means to ban someone for saying stfu.
I JUST TOLD YOU someone from kk SAID artillery turrets were supposed to go on walls at first. All outposts have buildings with roofs, and some have walls that you can walk on around the outpost. Most of the outposts have alot of FENCING which you wouldn't put them on, that is obvious. putting an artillery target on the ground inside the OP is practically useless and putting one outside is likely to get you in trouble for genrep camping, when it was even possible that is.
Regarding the name thing, you are demonstrating the same level of naivity as KK. My view is necessitated by the nature of difficulty of dealing with customers and SUBJECTIVITY. Your view is self centered and vindictive. When you run a company you cannot just have a set group of things you think are fair or unfair and attack any customers that don't adhere to YOUR beliefs. And its not even one person with KK its all the different beliefs of their gms.
There are plenty of tricks that can be done with names, people could do them in real life and this is a ROLEPLAYING GAME. For example in NEW YORK there once was a hole in the wall pizza place named RAY'S and everyone loved it. Now there are hundreds of RAY'S pizza places in New york with slightly different names. You can murder random people in role playing games to play a bad guy, but people are just supposed to assume they can try and trick people? No it doesn't make sense and its especially screwed up that gms can get peoople in trouble for stuff like this before they are even rules.
A GM cannot easily determine anything about a players intentions and most probably do not care to either. If they like the people who paged the gm they will ban you. If they like you or dont care they might not. It has nothing to do with weather or not you were really trying to sabotage a dungeon. I thought I already said this but a good example is like when leveling in the Graves and they want to respawn just to kill the boss monster over and over when there are tons of other mobs in there. And you might be a droner that can't even hunt without enough time to find a good position etc. If the people in the dungeon are friends with a gm, he could just show up and ban you and never even be questioned about it. But I suppose you are too naive to consider a situation like this and just assume the world is perfect because KK told you so?
They do ban people for leveling con. Don't you think its common sense that if a player has already died at a genrep and they gained a con level by being shot by a guard they might go back and do it again to gain some more con? Do you realize how many silly rules there are like this to keep track of? And whats to stop a gm from claiming you were exploiting if you even attack a guard once if he wants to?
Yes I had unfair treatment by gms that is why I am here. What is your point? I did not quit "a long time ago", just a few months. I have played the game for the majority of its existence, I still know people playing, and nothing indicates that anything has changed. You know nothing of what kind of player I am. If anything I would be a good person to have in a community to challenge and further ideas... And just to let you know I help other players adapt and learn in mmorpgs. Anyone who has read this far would probably realize this is true.
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First up, shijins post which is now deleted listed in detail what a GM does in Neocron and how much logging took place. It basically refuted everything you said to this point. I am sure Shinjin if he was was bothered would repost it.
So you think they are lying. Fine, keep thinking that and when you come back again and get banned. I can't help it if you are incapable of actually reading what you are quoting.
Threads over.
Ps. I am a beta player too, and have never once quit. You on the other hand have quit numerous times and no longer play the game. So yes I have played the game longer then you. Get over it.
Thank you for warning me. I was interested in buying it maybe. But now i dont think i will
Oh yeah sure whatever you say man. Considering almost no threads ever get deleted on their forums and the only time they ever would delete a thread is when there is something so controversial in it they don't even want a locked version of it to fuel arguments...
Why would I get banned even if I did come back? I never broke any stated rules and wouldn't plan to. Purposely banning me simply for telling people about how badly they do buisness (if they even knew or cared I was doing it) would open them up to a law suit for breach of contract. With a strong case like that as a base where it would be obvious they were dishonest it could easily open them up to a class action suit so everyone who had been banned could get revenge. I don't think they are THAT stupid.
Your welcome Dragon, and here is a link to a thread that demonstrates the kind of thing that I am talking about. Notice how the gm can't spell and many players think that the person had done nothing wrong and say there was never any rule against what the thread starter was doing.
http://forum.neocron.com/showthread.php?t=69643&highlight=Kriminal99
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Hmm... Hoverbike stuck you say? When did you play the game last? The problem with vehicles being stuck has been fixed for some time now, Even if you leave your vehicle for 20 minutes to go hunting or such the vehicle automaticly returns to the ASG garage... What patch did you last have? it's now up to 200. Please don't say that there are not events in Neocron, there have been alot on Pluto server lately as for the other servers I'm not sure and I've not seen a complaint about a GM playing favorites in a while. Sound s more like you got your pee pee spanked for doing something wrong in-game and your venting here because you got banned from the forums there. Buy Neocron you can't go wrong, you can pick in up for $5.00 now on EBay or at a game store if it's in stock that's better then when it first came out. Now with Sept 1st coming up with the release of Neocron-Beyond the Dome of York it's going to be even better.
Wow after reading all this, good & bad. There is no way I'd ever play this game. The previous corruption of those that ran and maintained the game to the obvious issues that may or may not exist today... Negative publicity is not good...
~Ziggen~
~Ziggen~
I used to enjoy this game until an incident one night left me totally disgusted. I will relate.
A low level friend of mine was hunting in an area called Outzone. For those unfamiliar, it is beyond a slum section of town, it is practically abandoned and very dangerous. PvP is encouraged in this game, and my buddy got jumped by 4 players from a rival faction repeatedly. Okay, so he asks me to come and lay a hurting on his opponents. Okay I say, and I bring two friends to help. Remember, this is a PvP game, this stuff happens this way. Okay, we show up in the zone, we find the four players and butcher three of them. Without warning, we walk into the courtyard and open fire. The fourth manages to flee into another zone. We don't chase, we just hang around our lower level friend to make sure he's okay.
About two minutes later, they've regrouped and try to take us on, and are promptly slaughtered. We didn't even fire first, we just stood there and said, if you attack our buddy here, you die. Okay, all four die. We hang out because we know they'll be back. Two minutes later, they return, except all four go strait for our low level friend, and the three of us more powerful players are killed within a span of 5 seconds by unseen sources. Hmm, WTF we think. One of us was stealthed awaiting the return of our 4 enemies, and was far away from the rest of us. I was a maxed out tank with power armor, and buffed up from the Passive Psi Monk who was our third companion. What this means in game terms is that we died within seconds of each other in one hit from an unseen source. A buffed max level power armor tank would need a thermal nuclear explosion down his pants to kill him in one shot. The Spy at the zone line (who was in stealth) would have seen any high level friends who came with them.
We had our suspicions, so our Spy first snuck in stealthed and verified the 4 of them were there, and no one else. Then, on a hunch, I walked into the zone and announced zonewide that I'm going to kill the 4, no hard feelings. Three seconds later, both myself and the spy, AND the psi monk in the next zone were dead. The Psi monk was in the subway, which is an area you can't PvP in.
I return to the zone a minute later, and call out verbal abuses to the GM to goad him out. I was dead in seconds. When I respawned, I received a serious of private messages from a GM telling me...well telling me that I am a female body part. I take a screenshot, and send my grievences along with my screenshots to their customer service. I am told that because screenshots can be doctored they cannot verify what happened and cannot take action against the GM. I respond by asking them to check their logs, because they can see things like a GM auto-killing someone. They refuse, claiming that these are internal policies that they do not violate. I respond by saying that if they do not at least pretend to check their logs or investigate the GM, I will terminate my account. They say once again that it is a violation of their policies bla bla bla. I log into my character to say goodbye to my friends, and notice that all of my tank's rare items and armor are mysteriously gone. I say goodbye to my friends, and I leave and cancel my account. My two high level friends also quit over this, and my low level friend did not renew his account, and told me that he had been harrassed by mysterious incidents over the next few days of his newbie career.
I will never play this game again, which is sad because I enjoyed it. I also suspect the developers are prejudiced against any and all American players because of some of their past actions.
Thats exactly the kind of stuff that happened to me. Noone realizes how full of shit they are when they say "oh gms don't ever do anything wrong, if they did wed know instantly etc" blah blah blah
It doesn't matter what the gms do they only even barely attempt to make it sound like the victim might be making it up, and some people are naive enough to believe that all the people complaining are lying.
Hey constantine, do you have a way to post the screen of the gm cursing you out here?
http://forum.neocron.com/showthread.php?t=102642
Also here is a link showing peoples frustration at KK's random banning principles. Notice how the people talking make it clear that whatever was done was obviously not cited as being against the rules yet the KK rep responds as if it clearly was in an attempt to decieve.
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Constantine, please show us your screenshots.
"Also here is a link showing peoples frustration at KK's random banning principles. Notice how the people talking make it clear that whatever was done was obviously not cited as being against the rules yet the KK rep responds as if it clearly was in an attempt to decieve. "
the only person claiming it was not against the rules was Vet, who's friends were banned. No one else agreed in any way. Don't be misleading.
I don't care how you shape it, changing files to give someone an advantage, however small, is cheating/exploiting and it should be punished.
"Your welcome Dragon, and here is a link to a thread that demonstrates the kind of thing that I am talking about. Notice how the gm can't spell and many players think that the person had done nothing wrong and say there was never any rule against what the thread starter was doing. "
Oh no, a GM that made a typo, whatever shall we do, the world is melting. Not only that but you link to a thread that is 10 months old. Way to put forward a recent arguement.
Can't believe this game is even around still.
The EULA of just about any online game states in so many words or less that they can ban you for any reason what so ever, including no reason at all and you typically agree to this every time you login. Your lawsuit for breach of contract would never go anywhere and it's totally amusing (we are still giggling over here) you'd even mention such a ridiclous thing over an online game that costs less than $14.00 a month.
~Ziggen~
~Ziggen~
Constantine, did you by chance play on the Pluto server? The reason I ask is because I had a similar experience there, but it was resolved. A friend of mine was also killed by a group of players, and when I intervened I too met with mysterious circumstances. I had suspicions, and when I logged in to my account to find all of my items gone, I contacted a GM ingame at once. After a little bit of investigation, the GM promised to look into things, but it would take a few days. I gave him my email and waited, as there was no point in playing with no equipment. In a few days, someone from Neocron's support sent an email of apology.
It seems that there was indeed a corrupt GM helping out his friends, and the company became aware of it after a number of players brought similar complaints to them. He would abuse his powers, give free items to his friends, instantly kill anyone who managed to best them, then remove their items or otherwise harass them. My equipment was returned with sincere apologies. This would have been about eight months ago. I do not remember the GMs name, I never actually received threatening messages from him but I did feel some of his harassment.
I believe that Neocron has some communications breakdowns on occasion, especially misinterpeted English/German messages. I saw enough to convince me that there were at least a few good GMs. I have not played Neocron in a few months, but I'm tempted to return every now and then, especially if BDOY works out well. I think that the upcoming expansion has forced the Neocron developers to seriously crack down on corrupt GMs to make the game more appealing to new players.
The problems from eight months ago are just that from eight months ago, I'm very active in NC on the Pluto server and have not seen or heard of anything like that since then and I only heard about it after the fact.
Neocron is worth a second chance.
I play on pluto aswell and seem to remember an incedent like that but it was corrected
so np
The EULA of just about any online game states in so many words or less that they can ban you for any reason what so ever, including no reason at all and you typically agree to this every time you login. Your lawsuit for breach of contract would never go anywhere and it's totally amusing (we are still giggling over here) you'd even mention such a ridiclous thing over an online game that costs less than $14.00 a month.
~Ziggen~
Im not familiar with internet law, but usually if a company conducts buisness somewhere in the US they can be sued there and clauses stating otherwise are void. Other international companies are not exempt from this. As for the amount of money involved, that is why it would only be worth it as a "class action suit" The idea is someone shows that they were banned for a totally illegitemate reason and then other people do the same and then it becomes a thing where the court orders the company to pay a large amount of money based on the estimated number of people aggrieved and then anyone involved can get their money back. However usually not all the people show up especially when it is only $14 per person. No most companies don't have policies that say they can ban you for any reason or else noone would buy the game obviously. And even when a contract does have something like that courts will usually not uphold them, for different reasons depending on how its worded. Im glad you find your own ignorance amusing.
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I'm obviously conversing with a kid but just for the hell of it I'll continue...
You have clearly convinced me that you have definatly not read, or simply not understood the EULA of every online game you may have ever played. Check out the liability clause in some of them... they set specific amounts of liability 1 months fees, $1 ect. You specifically agree to this every time you login. Who do you think writes these terms and conditions? You don't think these folks know the law? They are using very specific wording to give you no rights what-so-ever to their virtual 1's and 0's.
The company actually needs to break a law or right for you to successfully launch a class action suit. Look at ultima online, they had a huge class action suit against them. Their servers sucked, they banned like crazy and you know what happend... nothing. You have absolutly zero, less than zero chance of suing this online game company. Check out this suit: http://www.video-fenky.com/archives/000222.html against linage. See they actually have a valid reason to file and they have over 1000 people joining in. However you'll never see such a case in the USA, not today at least. There are way too little laws Governing the net.
If the game servers were down 50% of the time and there was total data corruption and they were charging you significantly more to play than another state, and you got togeather 1000 folks to sue them, you'd have a teeny tiny chance of winning. More than likely you'd just provide them some free advertising lol.
We can tell your upset. You cheated, you got caught. Get over it. Stop fantasizing about something that's not realistic or going to happen. Oh and by the way, get a new handle... if you dont see the sad irony of being acused and punished for a crime with the name of Kriminal then your totally lost lol.
~Ziggen~
~Ziggen~
I never played this game. looked at it when it was in beat (although never played beta) and looked at this forum to see if I would like to play the game. Have to say the came sounds good, but the community/administration would ruin it for me. I hear a lot of complaining from different sources about GM abuse and lack of maintance. I noticed with the exception of a few that most of the "people" defending the game registered the same day they posted which leads me to beleive there isn't even that much support for the game.
Also, I would just like to add that K99 is making the rest of you sound like fools. It's apparent the three of you that have been arguing with him are fanboys and probably the crooked GM's the posters have been complaining about. It sounds a lot like some guys who got together to make a game because they wanted to be ubber.
And all Ill add is that Im finding it sad that a few instances in the past of gm corruption which the company sorted out promptly after they were made aware of it has been blown out of proportion so much. Please remember GMs are volunteers and although they can screen them to a certain extent they cant guarantee how they will act under certain situations. It seems kk just had too much faith in people and extended their good will a bit too much, now they have solved the problems mainly by implementing gm logging and reducing the powers of a gm to a fraction of what they used to be.
I'm obviously conversing with a kid but just for the hell of it I'll continue...
You have clearly convinced me that you have definatly not read, or simply not understood the EULA of every online game you may have ever played. Check out the liability clause in some of them... they set specific amounts of liability 1 months fees, $1 ect. You specifically agree to this every time you login. Who do you think writes these terms and conditions? You don't think these folks know the law? They are using very specific wording to give you no rights what-so-ever to their virtual 1's and 0's.
The company actually needs to break a law or right for you to successfully launch a class action suit. Look at ultima online, they had a huge class action suit against them. Their servers sucked, they banned like crazy and you know what happend... nothing. You have absolutly zero, less than zero chance of suing this online game company. Check out this suit: http://www.video-fenky.com/archives/000222.html against linage. See they actually have a valid reason to file and they have over 1000 people joining in. However you'll never see such a case in the USA, not today at least. There are way too little laws Governing the net.
If the game servers were down 50% of the time and there was total data corruption and they were charging you significantly more to play than another state, and you got togeather 1000 folks to sue them, you'd have a teeny tiny chance of winning. More than likely you'd just provide them some free advertising lol.
We can tell your upset. You cheated, you got caught. Get over it. Stop fantasizing about something that's not realistic or going to happen. Oh and by the way, get a new handle... if you dont see the sad irony of being acused and punished for a crime with the name of Kriminal then your totally lost lol.
~Ziggen~
Lol Know which law? No one contract can adhere to the laws of every place it could possibly be enforced. In the realm of reality, contracts of international companies that use the same contract for every where they do buisness usually have something like 50% of the clauses immedietly disregarded. If they are designed for a specific location its obviously going to be much less, however it is a well known business tactic to design such contracts with clauses that cannot be enforced simply because they know that some people like you out there will be ignorant enough to believe them and will be intimidated by them.
However it is not intelligent to do this to the point where your customers wont want to do buisness with you, and I actually read the agreements with every mmo company I ever tried. Most of them DO NOT say anything even remotely resembling that they could ban you for any reason they want, and if they did say that you can bet that I would not play them.
If a company truly tried to claim that they could deny you service at any time for no legimate reason then the entire contract would be void at least in the United States for the reason of no consideration. The idea that something is being exchanged is the foundation of a contract....
Previous cases about an issue, especially when dealing with relatively new territorry are not a guarantee that future cases will not be won. Even if its on the exact same issue. There are plenty of times throughout history where judges went the wrong way on an issue and future judges dealt with the issue differently. Often times it only takes someone to show the issue in the correct light, and the right judge to change precedent.
But I seriously doubt that any other company was stupid enough to start banning people just because they don't like them anyways, which is the only case in which I would even bother and is what I said...
I never cheated, I was never banned, and I have no clue what you are talking about. But trying to project this image on to someone simply because you lose an argument makes obvious what your level of reasoning skills is. And about the name, yeah thats brilliant. Lets go around and ban everyone who has any handle other than "model citizen".
AHAHHAHA Yeah thats pretty much what it seems like oftentimes.
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