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Gods and Heroes: Perpetual Downsizes, G&H Release Delayed
Szark
News ManagerMember Posts: 4,420
Perpetual Entertainment has announced that they will be downsizing their Gods and Heroes development team by 30 to 40 people, citing the need for a less specialized team. PE has also stated that they will support their employees in transitioning to new employment. The game was originally scheduled for a Fall 2007 launch, which has now been pushed back to early in 2008 saying the game still needs more polish. Dana Massey of WarCry spoke to PE Co-Founder Chris McKibbin about these developments.
For the last several weeks, Gods and Heroes: Rome Rising had been in Closed Beta testing. While it is, according to Perpetual, content complete, they felt it needed more polish before it goes to market. "Our feeling was driving hard to make a fall launch would lead to less than high quality results and we've seen that in other launches," he said. "We've made the decision to give the game more time. What we really want to do is to deliver a polished and high-quality game."
The moves were born out of their desire to switch focus to a less specialized development team that he believes will be able to act with more agility on the feedback of the player base. The current marketplace demands high-quality, huge MMOGs and to achieve that they required many specialists who performed very specific functions. That kind of set-up is not perfectly suited to MMOGs in this phase of development.
;)
Read more on the WarCry Network.
Comments
As if copying the EQ-style grindfest games wasn't enough, now companies feel the need to copy PR tactics as well. I'm about sick of reading "such-and-such has delayed the release of their game because they feel it needs more polish." We all know that 90% of these games come out looking like crap anyways, no matter how much these guys "polish." If you had to DELAY your game to add more polish, you've already failed. These things need to be taken into consideration long before you have actually made the game. These companies need to stop doing things just because "everyone else is doing it."
While i see your point, they are learning from the mistakes of their competition. Players will not stick around and pay to play a beta game ... They have one shot to make the game work and that is launch day. What they should do instead of delay is open up the beta even more, allow the players to play and critique (or even just to investigate on their own). This will, in the event of a "good" game increase sales at launch as more information regarding the game is released, and more opinions freed from a NDA are released. The downside would be if the game is as you say "crap". That will ultimately lead to the games overall failure. It is a risky choice, but if they believe in the work they have produced over the last few years then this shouldnt be a hard decision.
Just my two cents
Xy
The delay is a good idea. G&H will benefit from the extended beta time greatly.
Watch your thoughts; they become words.
Watch your words; they become actions.
Watch your actions; they become habits.
Watch your habits; they become character.
Watch your character; it becomes your destiny.
Lao-Tze
Kramer0467,
I could not disagree with you more. Adding more beta testers.....who really arent' beta testers but people looking to play the game before its released will not help the situation. Only hurt the image of the game more.
Nice to see them trying to get a better product out, instead of rushing release for the dollar count.
Also, NDA breakers are being reported. If you are in the beta, you are forbidden to discuss what you see in it. Perfect examples of people who are "beta players", not "beta testers".
While I admire and support a delay in order to launch the game polished and high quality,
they think laying off 30-40 employees will enable them to "act with more agility on the feedback of the playerbase"?
What kind of illogical nonsense is that? The game is in trouble.
Delaying the game to polish is one viewpoint which is positive, but laying off 30-40 of your development team at the same time you are delaying the game spells problematic.
Didn't they just announce preorders being available just before this announcement? hehe
After not being able to d/l the client after getting a key,I could care less.This just shows me what the entire span
of the game is going to be like.NOT a good first impression.See ya! One less potential customer here.
I fail to see how this can be a good sign.
Laying off 30 people before launch, no matter how much spin you put on it, is indicative of a problem that is a lot deeper than the flimsy, cliched excuse of "the game needs more polish." This may be true, but it is far from the real reason. Remember, you can polish a turd all you want, but it is still a turd. I think they may get the feeling from beta response that, quite simply, their game lacks the appeal they felt it had and will need to radically change things.
Anyway, I sense another failure in the wings (though I sensed that when this game was announced, but that was merely a hunch). On the bright side, 2008 is going to be the year of the MMORPG. WAR, AoC, and G&H, just to name a few, are all looking to be released in the first half of 2008, if not the first quarter. Unfortunately, the strongest one will get reap the spoils, and the weakest one will be steamrolled and be a footnote in the annals of MMORPG history. Will that be G&H? Maybe, maybe not, but compared to the other two mentioned it seems likely.
Look back to where you see random big players in a company pop into the Forums and/or Chat randomly towards the end of the production cycle during polish/Beta phases. That's the ill attempts at keeping their jobs, they don't really care about the player base.
This is PE's 2nd set of layoffs. Chances are their funding is starting to look more thin then they originally anticipated, and the people at the top know they need to, at least, appear useful in order not to get canned. Laying off 5 artists that would make content will allow you to keep 1 Producer or Director.
So really, they could've laid off 6 - 7 big people, or 30 - 40 little people. Want to guess who got the shaft?
- CaesarsGhost
Lead Gameplay and Gameworld Designer for a yet unnamed MMO Title.
"When people tell me designing a game is easy, I try to get them to design a board game. Most people don't last 5 minutes, the rest rarely last more then a day. The final few realize it's neither fun nor easy."
I have been watching this game for sometime now and you should never put "Delay do to polish" and "laying off 30-40 people" in the same headline.
I agree with some of the people here on the forum, is this really a bigger problem in disguise? I am not sure but I have noticed that a lot more games are coming out with delays for this or for that. I am not sure if they are doing that because the majority of people would rather have a finished produce rather then a bugy game. I personally think it would be funny as hell if a game producer threw out a way far out there date and then moved release up for a change.
Anyways I look forward to G&H hell I even tryed to get into beta but my name was not pulled. I blame everyone else in the contest, because without you I would have won
.
"And thus I clothe my naked villany/ with old odd ends stolen forth from holy writ/ and seem a saint when most I play the devil." Shakespeare's Richard III Act I Scene 3.
Yeah, whilst I find it sad that 30-40 souls lost their jobs, and 'tis true this could indicate a deeper issue beyond simple team makeup as launch approaches, I'm inclined to believe the 2/08 launch will be successful and that this will be a mature game that is "complete" come the go-live date...and that for the most part we will be satisfied and end up buying/subscribing to his (alongside our current beloved games and other games launching early '08). I do not feel overly concerned by this news, and feel it merits only mild eyebrow-raising attention at most (for now). I just hope G&H gets added to SOE All Access because from a socioeconomical standpoint it's an overtly logical win-win-win (for Perpetual, certainly Sony, and most of all...those of us that have SOE All Access already and want to add a great game like G&H to the mix alongside Eq2, Vanguard, Planetside, [Eq1] and SWG).
Now (PC online): Eq2, Vanguard, Planetside, SWG
Now (PC offline): Medieval Total War 2 (w/Kingdoms), Rome Total War (w/Barbarian Invasion)
Now (PS2): Madden 2008, Gran Turismo 3 & 4, Star Wars Battlefront I & II
Soon (PC online): Pirates of the Burning Sea, Age of Conan, Star Trek Online, (Gods & Heroes)?
RIP (PC Online): EQ, EVE
Well. Coming from a very long stint in 2 supposed MMO's (3 years plus each), I can say that a large staff != a quality game. In one case, the staff grew exponentially, in the other, the staff dwindled to nothing. Not to mention the two which reflect the long played. A smaller staff does not by any means, er mean a less quality product. If you care to know what those games are, one is SWG, where the staff was gutted after the NGE. The game has done nothing but improve since the NGE (not comparing to before, I mean literally since 11/15). They have a skeleton crew, but they are working. The other is SL, and given their growth, and number of staff added, the client has done nothing more than become more instable over time, with customer service going straight to hell, with the only consolation prize being a better sky, and a voice system no one uses.
As for the other two. Lineage 2, which has added CS staff yet gone no where, and MxO, which has cut staff yet dramatically improved bug swatting and game play, but has added nothing to the game content-wise to encourage play. MxO's small staff has done an admirable job minus expansion.
So, Perpetual is cutting staff. I have to say this worries me a little. I have no intention of playing AoC or WAR. Simply because YAFMMO (Yet another Fantasy MMORPG) does not interest me in the least. I am an adult. I read Asimov, Bradbury, and Coupland. Fantasy holds little interest for me. The future, on the other hand, inrtiges (sp) me. So, why post about Rome? Because it is reliable history and not an elf driven concoction of someone's imagination. There is so much that can be done with this title. True beliefs realized, real politics to be engrossed in, true consequences to be shared. This was a good idea, fantasized of course, but Rome actually had a stake in fantasy. The last Rome to launch was a dismal wreck of a game. Rome Rising was scrapped (damn that one looked promising). This one will launch, and I look forward to trying it out.
So, they now have a smaller staff. My guess is they want to cut losses and hope they gain enough to expand after launch. I do wish this title the best. Of the big three for 08, AoC, WAR!!!!!, GnH, this one has had my attention (not in a FB way). I really wish them the best, and hope they can pull off a period that others have completely screwed up.
Also two conspiracy theories. 1) Sony is the publisher, look out for a takeover, at least this time before launch. 2) Aren't these guys STO? If so somebody shoot me. Rome and Star Trek under Sony rule will make me a complete loser.
Played (more than a month): SWG, Second Life, Tabula Rasa, Lineage 2, Everquest 2, EvE, MxO, Ryzom.
Tried: WoW, Shadowbane, Anarchy Online, Everquest, WWII Online, Planetside
Beta: Lotro, Tabula Rasa, WAR.
What a bunch of pure gobbledegook. Love how the idiot spin doctors try to make layoffs look they are good.
All this really says is oops, we are not going to meet our deadllines and we are running low on money so some staff have to be cut.
What kind of fools do these people think we are anyways?
OK well Dalevi1 must be on the payroll of either $OE, Platform publish, or PE 'cuz viewing the post as an attempt of damage control "Every thing's fine here.. we're all fine... how are you?" is the only thing that makes sense.
PE is in serious trouble, and by the looks of it Gods an Heros is bombing, and the chances for Star Trek Online comming out are getting slim. I really doubt if even $OE would consider buying this title to have it go forward, and here are the reasons:
1) $OE has to have learned by now the MMO playerbase will not readily jump in to a game just because. Long gone are the days of incomplete 1/2 baked games that still draw the masses, just because. Not to mention $OE is in serious damage control over this very issue due to the past histories of them and game flops due to incomplete buggy messes that were given to the playerbase. How long did it take EQ2 to recover from it's bad launch? MXO had a serious hic-up in their own combat re-vamp. $OE may never get past the wreckage that became of their NGE bomb dropped upon SWG, and let's not forget that even though it was Sigil that trashed Vanguard, $OE still took a very big hit in credability just being associated with the title.
All that means is it's unlikely that they are ready to jump in and rescue annother game when the fires of SWG, and Vanguard still burn so brightly. Not to mention they have really dropped off of supporting MXO, and Planetside. So does annother fantasy MMO like G&H really mean $OE will pick it up? hrmm... EQ, EQ2, Vanguard.. I think they are covered in Fantasy MMO's. Even if Dalevi1 tries to assure us it's more adult, seeing as there are no elves, and such.. yet the heavy particle effects, Mythic mosters, and sub standard looking combat...
Moving on..
2) Nine months back Perpetual Ent was bragging about the new facility they were moving to, how they were ramping up to hire for STO seeing as G&H was comming into the home stretch... Then it began to all fall apart.
D. Stennett has the famous interview where he states they are starting over on STO, no more interior's blah blah.. the community there revolts, and he states basically "Don't like it, leave now.."
Problems continue for PE with the STO side of the house, so they close the boards, move over to allow STO.net to run rampant in silencing the dissadents, and STO enters a 'dark period of heavy development disscussion'
PE let's slip the STO dev's are going slower than anticipated due to moving over to aid in G&H...
G&H get's mediocre to bad reviews at the recent game con's...
They had slated an Oct launch.. and NOW it get's pussed back? Now 1 week til Oct they push it back.. After open beta 'competitions' and Pre-orders go out.
Now a push back is one thing, but you'd think they could have known it wasn't ready and do this before they open pre-orders, and have a contest here on MMORPG to get into Beta.
What really shows it's going bad is the layoffs. Not a return of the STO Dev's to work on their project, but pink slips...
So what do we have.. inside nine months they go from 1 game long in development, to hiring for their next project, and moving into a better facility to house both teams... to canabalizing one Dev team to aid the other... to layoffs less than a month before launch, which is now pushed back...
Yet they assume we are too stupid to see there is something wrong here... and swallow the PR bull of a smaller more focused team to root out and polish...
Mankind is not limited by imagination, but the courage to reach....
Read: Star Trek Online needs more money.
Until you cancel your subscription, you are only helping to continue the cycle of mediocrity.
Funny thing is (and it came to my big surprise) ,
that i hear from a friend that G&H actually looks quite good at this point. He actually thinks it looks ready for release.
Go figure
"Before this battle is over all the world will know that few...stood against many." - King Leonidas
WTF difference does it make guys? Every company downsizes generally AFTER launch to have less specialized teams. This is a GOOD thing.
when you have specialized teams it takes money.. lots of it.. AND communication between teams is at times VERY frustrating and difficult. Sometimes information gets lost between 1 team and another. This causes serious problems in the game that we players have to deal with. They also can't properly communicate players needs between one another. These issues are just human nature.. we forget.. we misplace..etc... it happens.
Anyway, they should be able to really focus on 1 thing at a time, which is what happens to all games as time progresses. They are getting a jump start and improving before it even begins. That is just AWESOME. Learning from past development mistakes.
I for one can be patient as I need to be, because I'm having a absolute blast playing Rappelz. Just an awesome game. If G&H sucks. I'll be playing Rappelz. If G&H rules.. i'll still play Rappelz, but G&H too.
I think this is a fantastic move they are doing and they are helping the other employees find new jobs (which doesn't happen very often). I for one can't wait to get my hands on it, but i'll be patient. I have a beta key, but I don't have the dedicated time to test to their needs. So i'll not be playing.
[ Played ] 2Moons, Anarchy Online, City of Heroes, City of Villains, Dark Age of Camelot, Everquest, Everquest II, Guild Wars, HellGate: London, Lord of the Rings Online, Rappelz, RF Online, Shadowbane, Star Wars Galaxies, Sword of the New World, Tabula Rasa, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, World of Warcraft, Last Chaos
[ Playing ] Everquest II
[ Waiting ] Aion, Age of Conan
They are laying off 30-40 people at the exact point they had originally hoped to release, AND they are delaying the game for "more polish"
Reading between the lines, they are out of money, the game is still unfinished, and while they themselves may not have learned the lessons of recent releases soon enough, those giving them what little money they are still getting have. The investors are demanding a reduction of costs and a "polished" release.
If they are doing these things at this point, in all liklihood the game is a turd and will join Horizons, AC2, Vanguard and the imortal Dark & Light in the annals of bargain bin bad games.
It does need polish.
They are not ready to launch right now. Kudos to PE for recognizing this and wanting to release a quality game.
/agree. Perpetual wil be bought by SoE, and be on the Station pass.
Do any of the laid off employees have blogs? Anyway...
My guess is: the feedback PE has been getting from the beta has revelaed that the game will be just "so-so" in popularity and not the blockbuster the owners hoped for. Management went "uh-oh" and started throwing cargo overboard early to save the ship from sinking.
- Trimming back on staff to make the company more attractive for a buyout. That's what happened years ago at a game company i worked for, nearly 1/2 the staff was laid off just weeks before it was acquired. Apparently it's a common business tactic.
- Timing of release - There's 2 'best' times of the year to ship a AAA game - Oct / Nov just before Xmas and Jan / Feb just after. The danger in waiting til Q1 of 08 is they'll be competing for publicity and subscription dollars with WAR and AoC. Seems like a very dumb move marketing wise.
- "Agile" Project Management - despite the claim of needing to shift to a narrowly focused and specialized team at this stage of development, I don't think that's what going on here. I think instead of waiting til after ship for layoffs and / or reassignments to other projects, they're just cutting back early to save cash.
I don't think new studios should start mmorpg's. They should build years of savings first with other game styles. The publisher NCsoft holds a good model to follow. I would hope that P.E would engage NcSoft. But I am just a gamer and not a businessman. In fact theUS should embrace the Japanese and Korean way of the company model. So should its boards memebers.
Couldn't agree more...... this just reminds me DnL.
It does need polish.
They are not ready to launch right now. Kudos to PE for recognizing this and wanting to release a quality game.
How would you know this...unless your breaking NDA? Based on the various material I have seen and read...this game is not any good whatsoever...All quests, boring skills, horrible performance, bland characters, slow combat, no crafting, housing, timesinks...just kill, kill, kill...can we say Grindfest?
No..I think this is a sign...sorry...bye bye GnH!