Mate i agree with you, this game does suffer a few drawbacks. And im glad that there is someone who actually writes down the things wrong with a game instead of just complaining for 1000 words. But its a beta, you compared it with too many different games.
When all those games came out there were problems. Nothings perfect when it starts.
you missed my point. the point i was making is that this game is aiming to make what it does have superior to all others and not publishing any thing its lacking---that other mmo's have---until they are just as superior. I cited the deficiencies of those other games simply to reaffirm that point. i also made the point that the things it lacks that most people gripe about are only because they are accustomed to having the option and not because it is so significant to their game play.
i as stated before think this game could go either way but i am looking forward to it, i admire what the developers are trying to do.
Seriously, you are one of the few people that actually gets it. PE is making a core game that is finished and superior in gameplay at launch. They want to publish a game without glitches and little bugs that have to be taken care of first after launch. PE is a new player on the mmo market and the first impression has to be a great one. This is why they don't do PvP yet(which can be really unbalanced when rushed), no crafting(just too much mechanics to add to the core game for a smaller newcommer). But it IS going to get in eventually.
If the core game is good, they don't have to spend their resources on fixing it anymore and can really focus in the crafting and pvp.
Most MMOs treat crafting like a checkbox to tick off - resulting in boring gameplay and largely useless crafted items. I wish MORE MMOs would just leave out features rather than release them as conceptually and mechanically broken messes.
I really like the idea of crafting. Star Wars Galaxies had a very fun and deep crafting system, but most other games have reduced crafting to "sit around clicking one button and watching a progress meter". WoW and others have added "grind thousands of enemies to get rare recipes (or the cash to buy them with)" as their so-called enhanced gameplay.
Crafting can make a game more fun. But it can also make a game less fun (WoW forces a player to craft some of their own items if they want specific/optimal gear, making them take part in a crushingly dull part of the game). If crafting is a dull face-off with a progress bar, it hurts the game further by diverting resources that could have been used on the parts of the game the creators actually cared about.
Every feature requires time to implement (even half-assed crafting implementations). I have no problem with a developer skipping a feature that plenty of other companies have done far worse with: wasting their time and ours with a shoddy implementation.
I'll be trying GnH, if the game they deliver is fun and rewarding, I'll keep playing - if not, I won't. No list of checked-off features will make that decision for me.
After watching about every video on youtube and reading all the forums that offer info on Gods and Heroes, I'm so excited about this game that I'm jumping for joy. I've always been a dedicated pet class gamer as well as a crafter. I wasn't that disappointed in crafting not being implemented at first because I'm able to see whats going to happen perhaps six months after launch that makes me more excited.
Right now there are camps. A place to hold your stuff. Personal housing is a roleplaying feature and what I expect crafting to entail is the crafting and building of homes, guild halls, furniture, gardens, foods, lumberjacking , saddle making, horse taming, just about anything to enhance roleplaying. The lead designer has roleplaying roots and I know he won't let me down.
Giving me some time to develop my characters and get to know the game world isn't a bad idea to start with either. I can't tell you how many times I've started a game as a crafter and missed half the game world cause I had my head stuck in some kind of crafting machine or with my nose to the bazaar terminals. I'll willing to wait to see what happens.
Sounds like SOE is rushing this game out the door like they did Vanguard.
No you're wrong. It's Perpetual Entertainment that is rushing the game out the door. They ignored SOE's advice to hold off on the release for another 6 months to ensure the game would be complete at launch and that SOE would not publish the game in its current state. That was the real reason for PE and SOE's split on publishing and distribution of the game. So if Gods and Heroes tanks because of an incomplete game at launch, it's PE's fault as they should have listened to SOE. From what I hear, Vanguard was more complete at launch than Gods and Heroes will be.
If you ask me, if a game is supposed to have crafting, then that is a CORE part of the game.
Unless they make crafting a core part of the game, they need not bother to add it at all really. By the time they have built a crafting system(and not to mention rewritten the game economy and item/loot mechanics) the loot/quest/NPC shop system will have become a major part of the game and its game economy.
You as a player will have to change your way of play, as if crafting is going to become a "valuable" part of the game "later", you will have to swap from a loot/quest/NPC shop to a crafting game. IF they don't add crafting as a supplement and replacement for a loot/quest/NPC shop game, they will have spent months on building a feature of the game that in essence is useless and a waste of time.
Heck, I'd love to see you guys faces if your "long awaited game" started out with no combat, as they could patch in that later
First let me clarify something before I comment on the topic.
1. If you are not interested in this game/ hate this game/ hate this company and not going to buy/play this game, there is no reason to be here to post negative comments about it. You dont want to play, you wave good bye to the game and its forum. No one forces you to play or to tolerate it, especially you are not even in the BETA or have not paid for it yet. It is more healthy for you and the others if you go on and look for games that suits you and post some fair comments in their forums. People want to hear neutral facts, not hear-say, prediction and personal biased justification. *It is always up to that very person to decide if they want to play the game/ stay with the game. Its their choices and personal values that needed respect. People will figure out if a game is good/bad for themselves, continue to post your own feelings or interpretations are un-neccessary as both sides are looking from different prospectives. It does not mean that your arguments are not logical, it's just that both sides will not be able to convince each other.
2. If you have great hope and waited this game for a long time, while the recent changes have make you feel disappointed about the game, you can express your grief here. But please notice that the topic here is (released game will be incomplete?) not (they have ruined the game...) it is very reasonable for you to open a new topic to discuss the recent changes that you dislike, but sticking to the topic is cruicial to a discussion.
3. All companies out there are aiming to make money, the game is their assets and their customers are the players. Some companies know that it is important to have a good game to keep their players for long term profits (but need more input of resources), others might want fast, short term profits and present a crappy game with so many good ideas to attract you, but failed to provide an acceptable service. They are not volunteers that create a game because they love it, they are businessman who wants to earn money.
So, back to the topic:
How will you define complete?
MMORPG with PvP and craft = complete?
MMORPG with squard system and smooth gameplay = complete?
There is one thing unique about MMORPG : infinitive upgrades (new systems, new items, new quests, new instances...etc)
If the game is out without fulfilling your list of a "complete" MMORPG, you can go and look for another game that is "complete".
Playing games = entertainment, play the game you like and let others enjoy the games they like.
You do not love to hear negative comments about yourself, so do others.
I respect everyone here and their comments, but to dig so deep into an endless discussion-->debate-->flame is absolutely meaningless.
It amazes me still that people will complain just to complain. PE has always stated that crafting and PvP will come later. As far as I know have never stated otherwise. They have always stood on the fact they are working on the CORE GAME, which is the adventure side of the game. So people need to quit whining about PE taking more away. As far as minions being reduced from 8 to 4 or classes having only 2 gods to choose from. It sounds like it may well have been based on balance issues. And they are not removing those aspects just tweaking it which, guess what, is what beta if for testing, tweaking, and BALANCING. So guess what, from now till launch, THINGS ARE GONNA CHANGE AND THINGS ARE GONNA BE BALANCED AND NOTHING ABOUT THIS GAME OR ANY MMO IS WRITTEN IN STONE TILL THEY (the devs and not all you who think you can do it better but do nothing but complain) SEE HOW IT WORKS IN THE SCOPE OF GAMEPLAY AND BALANCE.
Coming from a MMO addict since day 1 of EQ 1, it is a breathe of fresh air to see a company willing to get the core of the game right, which for this game is Adventuring, not crafting and not PVP. I have seen plenty of crappy launches with games trying to do everything but getting nothing finished and polished to know how it can destroy a game. The only thing i keep hearing is take more time finish the crafting and finish the pvp then before launch. Guess what the reality is no smaller company with fresh ideas can do that at this point because you cant keep paying people to keep working on something that isnt making money. So the choices are simple:
A. Be a huge company who can afford to pay people indefinitely to make sure a game will be completely polished with all phases of the game in and working to perfection (which even with all of that I do not think it is possible). With the hopes people will like the ideas to begin with and you make your money back with some profit since you sunk a Boatload more money then most companies do on a game. Which lets be honest that no matter how perfect to the idea the developers start with it is, there is no guarantee the people will play it.
B. Try as a smaller company to polish all that you want in a game to be there at launch with limited resources and money. Which we know can't happen since they don't have the money to keep paying a bunch of people to keep working on all that polish. What happens, and has been proven time and again, they will run out of money and be forced to launch a buggy piece of crap that no one plays.
C. Smaller company works on the core system, with ideas for the fluff to be add ASAP and release a game at is core is as near to what they hoped it could be by launch. Hope no major flaws suface and launch, and people like your idea and play your game. So you can then add the fluff at later date since you are hopefully making money now.
I think people fail to realize how picky the gaming community can be and how quickly a game can fail and lose money. If you don't believe that, then the next Big MMO you think is hot, go ahead and invest all your Life Savings into it,which should help them give you that fluff you want at launch and see if that games bellies up with your money or makes a huge hit and makes you rich. Cause the bottom line is the most any player will ever lose to an MMO company/game is 50 bucks for the game at launch since they all come with 30 days free sub. What do these small companies stand to lose? I dare say alot more then any of us.
just got my Beta key havent tried yet cus servers is down but this game looks to be very interessting game! only two things i got dissapointed yet is PvP aint coming before after realese and i not relly like this control ''bot'' unit =P reminds me of guild wars -.-but rest looks very cool! cant wait to try this! Gladitor class aww sexy=)
Lord of lords! Read my lips: NO-MMO-EVER-LAUNCHES-100%-COMPLETE! Thanks. Can we now pls close this topic. ><
But, they at least release 50-75% done..
GnH feels 25% done...and will fail...just watch...
Cheers!
True, no MMO has ever launched 100% complete. Nor do I think an MMO will ever launch 100% Complete. Whether it be 25% or 50% complete what really needs to be done is have what ever is there to be in working condition and polished. But their spin on why they fired a bunch of people just doesn't make sense. How is having less developers going to make things better? Sure there would be more communication, but it sure isn't going to be able to get as much done as a big team.
_________________________________
Currently Playing: Eve-Online On the Backburner: EQ2 Retired: EQ, DAoC, WW2Online RIP: AC2 Tried: Ryzom, Roma Victor, RoM, KH2, Forsaken World, AO, AoC, APB Quit: SWG PRE-CU(Radiant/Starsider), WoW
Comments
Mate i agree with you, this game does suffer a few drawbacks. And im glad that there is someone who actually writes down the things wrong with a game instead of just complaining for 1000 words. But its a beta, you compared it with too many different games.
When all those games came out there were problems. Nothings perfect when it starts.
you missed my point. the point i was making is that this game is aiming to make what it does have superior to all others and not publishing any thing its lacking---that other mmo's have---until they are just as superior. I cited the deficiencies of those other games simply to reaffirm that point. i also made the point that the things it lacks that most people gripe about are only because they are accustomed to having the option and not because it is so significant to their game play.
i as stated before think this game could go either way but i am looking forward to it, i admire what the developers are trying to do.
CA.AL.Burns, you just became my new hero
Seriously, you are one of the few people that actually gets it. PE is making a core game that is finished and superior in gameplay at launch. They want to publish a game without glitches and little bugs that have to be taken care of first after launch. PE is a new player on the mmo market and the first impression has to be a great one. This is why they don't do PvP yet(which can be really unbalanced when rushed), no crafting(just too much mechanics to add to the core game for a smaller newcommer). But it IS going to get in eventually.
If the core game is good, they don't have to spend their resources on fixing it anymore and can really focus in the crafting and pvp.
Most MMOs treat crafting like a checkbox to tick off - resulting in boring gameplay and largely useless crafted items. I wish MORE MMOs would just leave out features rather than release them as conceptually and mechanically broken messes.
I really like the idea of crafting. Star Wars Galaxies had a very fun and deep crafting system, but most other games have reduced crafting to "sit around clicking one button and watching a progress meter". WoW and others have added "grind thousands of enemies to get rare recipes (or the cash to buy them with)" as their so-called enhanced gameplay.
Crafting can make a game more fun. But it can also make a game less fun (WoW forces a player to craft some of their own items if they want specific/optimal gear, making them take part in a crushingly dull part of the game). If crafting is a dull face-off with a progress bar, it hurts the game further by diverting resources that could have been used on the parts of the game the creators actually cared about.
Every feature requires time to implement (even half-assed crafting implementations). I have no problem with a developer skipping a feature that plenty of other companies have done far worse with: wasting their time and ours with a shoddy implementation.
I'll be trying GnH, if the game they deliver is fun and rewarding, I'll keep playing - if not, I won't. No list of checked-off features will make that decision for me.
After watching about every video on youtube and reading all the forums that offer info on Gods and Heroes, I'm so excited about this game that I'm jumping for joy. I've always been a dedicated pet class gamer as well as a crafter. I wasn't that disappointed in crafting not being implemented at first because I'm able to see whats going to happen perhaps six months after launch that makes me more excited.
Right now there are camps. A place to hold your stuff. Personal housing is a roleplaying feature and what I expect crafting to entail is the crafting and building of homes, guild halls, furniture, gardens, foods, lumberjacking , saddle making, horse taming, just about anything to enhance roleplaying. The lead designer has roleplaying roots and I know he won't let me down.
Giving me some time to develop my characters and get to know the game world isn't a bad idea to start with either. I can't tell you how many times I've started a game as a crafter and missed half the game world cause I had my head stuck in some kind of crafting machine or with my nose to the bazaar terminals. I'll willing to wait to see what happens.
Fuhyo
If you ask me, if a game is supposed to have crafting, then that is a CORE part of the game.
Unless they make crafting a core part of the game, they need not bother to add it at all really. By the time they have built a crafting system(and not to mention rewritten the game economy and item/loot mechanics) the loot/quest/NPC shop system will have become a major part of the game and its game economy.
You as a player will have to change your way of play, as if crafting is going to become a "valuable" part of the game "later", you will have to swap from a loot/quest/NPC shop to a crafting game. IF they don't add crafting as a supplement and replacement for a loot/quest/NPC shop game, they will have spent months on building a feature of the game that in essence is useless and a waste of time.
Heck, I'd love to see you guys faces if your "long awaited game" started out with no combat, as they could patch in that later
First let me clarify something before I comment on the topic.
1. If you are not interested in this game/ hate this game/ hate this company and not going to buy/play this game, there is no reason to be here to post negative comments about it. You dont want to play, you wave good bye to the game and its forum. No one forces you to play or to tolerate it, especially you are not even in the BETA or have not paid for it yet. It is more healthy for you and the others if you go on and look for games that suits you and post some fair comments in their forums. People want to hear neutral facts, not hear-say, prediction and personal biased justification. *It is always up to that very person to decide if they want to play the game/ stay with the game. Its their choices and personal values that needed respect. People will figure out if a game is good/bad for themselves, continue to post your own feelings or interpretations are un-neccessary as both sides are looking from different prospectives. It does not mean that your arguments are not logical, it's just that both sides will not be able to convince each other.
2. If you have great hope and waited this game for a long time, while the recent changes have make you feel disappointed about the game, you can express your grief here. But please notice that the topic here is (released game will be incomplete?) not (they have ruined the game...) it is very reasonable for you to open a new topic to discuss the recent changes that you dislike, but sticking to the topic is cruicial to a discussion.
3. All companies out there are aiming to make money, the game is their assets and their customers are the players. Some companies know that it is important to have a good game to keep their players for long term profits (but need more input of resources), others might want fast, short term profits and present a crappy game with so many good ideas to attract you, but failed to provide an acceptable service. They are not volunteers that create a game because they love it, they are businessman who wants to earn money.
So, back to the topic:
How will you define complete?
MMORPG with PvP and craft = complete?
MMORPG with squard system and smooth gameplay = complete?
There is one thing unique about MMORPG : infinitive upgrades (new systems, new items, new quests, new instances...etc)
If the game is out without fulfilling your list of a "complete" MMORPG, you can go and look for another game that is "complete".
Playing games = entertainment, play the game you like and let others enjoy the games they like.
You do not love to hear negative comments about yourself, so do others.
I respect everyone here and their comments, but to dig so deep into an endless discussion-->debate-->flame is absolutely meaningless.
It amazes me still that people will complain just to complain. PE has always stated that crafting and PvP will come later. As far as I know have never stated otherwise. They have always stood on the fact they are working on the CORE GAME, which is the adventure side of the game. So people need to quit whining about PE taking more away. As far as minions being reduced from 8 to 4 or classes having only 2 gods to choose from. It sounds like it may well have been based on balance issues. And they are not removing those aspects just tweaking it which, guess what, is what beta if for testing, tweaking, and BALANCING. So guess what, from now till launch, THINGS ARE GONNA CHANGE AND THINGS ARE GONNA BE BALANCED AND NOTHING ABOUT THIS GAME OR ANY MMO IS WRITTEN IN STONE TILL THEY (the devs and not all you who think you can do it better but do nothing but complain) SEE HOW IT WORKS IN THE SCOPE OF GAMEPLAY AND BALANCE.
Coming from a MMO addict since day 1 of EQ 1, it is a breathe of fresh air to see a company willing to get the core of the game right, which for this game is Adventuring, not crafting and not PVP. I have seen plenty of crappy launches with games trying to do everything but getting nothing finished and polished to know how it can destroy a game. The only thing i keep hearing is take more time finish the crafting and finish the pvp then before launch. Guess what the reality is no smaller company with fresh ideas can do that at this point because you cant keep paying people to keep working on something that isnt making money. So the choices are simple:
A. Be a huge company who can afford to pay people indefinitely to make sure a game will be completely polished with all phases of the game in and working to perfection (which even with all of that I do not think it is possible). With the hopes people will like the ideas to begin with and you make your money back with some profit since you sunk a Boatload more money then most companies do on a game. Which lets be honest that no matter how perfect to the idea the developers start with it is, there is no guarantee the people will play it.
B. Try as a smaller company to polish all that you want in a game to be there at launch with limited resources and money. Which we know can't happen since they don't have the money to keep paying a bunch of people to keep working on all that polish. What happens, and has been proven time and again, they will run out of money and be forced to launch a buggy piece of crap that no one plays.
C. Smaller company works on the core system, with ideas for the fluff to be add ASAP and release a game at is core is as near to what they hoped it could be by launch. Hope no major flaws suface and launch, and people like your idea and play your game. So you can then add the fluff at later date since you are hopefully making money now.
I think people fail to realize how picky the gaming community can be and how quickly a game can fail and lose money. If you don't believe that, then the next Big MMO you think is hot, go ahead and invest all your Life Savings into it,which should help them give you that fluff you want at launch and see if that games bellies up with your money or makes a huge hit and makes you rich. Cause the bottom line is the most any player will ever lose to an MMO company/game is 50 bucks for the game at launch since they all come with 30 days free sub. What do these small companies stand to lose? I dare say alot more then any of us.
Lord of lords! Read my lips:
NO-MMO-EVER-LAUNCHES-100%-COMPLETE!
Thanks. Can we now pls close this topic. ><
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
GnH feels 25% done...and will fail...just watch...
Cheers!
just got my Beta key havent tried yet cus servers is down but this game looks to be very interessting game! only two things i got dissapointed yet is PvP aint coming before after realese and i not relly like this control ''bot'' unit =P reminds me of guild wars -.-but rest looks very cool! cant wait to try this! Gladitor class aww sexy=)
GnH feels 25% done...and will fail...just watch...
Cheers!
True, no MMO has ever launched 100% complete. Nor do I think an MMO will ever launch 100% Complete. Whether it be 25% or 50% complete what really needs to be done is have what ever is there to be in working condition and polished. But their spin on why they fired a bunch of people just doesn't make sense. How is having less developers going to make things better?
Sure there would be more communication, but it sure isn't going to be able to get as much done as a big team.
_________________________________
Currently Playing: Eve-Online
On the Backburner: EQ2
Retired: EQ, DAoC, WW2Online
RIP: AC2
Tried: Ryzom, Roma Victor, RoM, KH2, Forsaken World, AO, AoC, APB
Quit: SWG PRE-CU(Radiant/Starsider), WoW
Achiever 47% / Explorer 40% / Killer 87% / Socializer 27%
ahem
and
tada
Cheers, and bye bye GnH!