I think the OP needs to chill on forcing his opinions on others, great you found Diablo lacking and do not think it deserves the title RPG. You are welcome to that opinion, but it is just that an opinion, because you think it DOES NOT make it so. In this case it is a minority opinion and will stay that way no matter how much you argue with people. Would I consider the developer the experts on RPG's nope and in my opinion it would not even be a company that primarily develops for PC. Instead I would consider Square-Enix at the head of the class based both on future projects and past portfolio, that is however my OPINION. The RPG label has very little to do these days with Roleplaying, instead it is used to describe games where we can assume the roel of a hero or villian of our chose and play them in a fantasy world. The degree in which we role play with in these world is often up to the user to decide as even games that would fit into that small little pigeon hole of what you consider an RPG are played by people with no inclination to role play. Examples being the inclusion of RP server in many of todays MMO's, including WoW and EQ2. Also your Tropico and Sims analogy is inadequete considering it is universally agreed that these are simulation. I don't know what Hellgate did to you but every company make grand claims, do you scan the boxes and read the websites then rush here to dispute them?
Bullshit, since when a RPG had to be in a fantasy setting?
Also, Square are good at ~stories~ but there's no RP whatsoever in their games. They're as much a RPG as Diablo is, but with a prominent story.
For a proper RPG experience barring pen and paper you have to look at games like Planescape: Torment, Fallout or The Witcher, just to give a newer example. Games where you decide (within boundaries, sure, but they're needed to tell a story, heh) what your character says and how he/she behaves. Those are generally accepted to be RPGs in the proper sense.
Please read my post did I say fantasy setting or did I say a fantasy world. A fantasy world can have elves, or battle armor, or what ever you fancy, hence the term fantasy world. Before quoting a post and calling it bullshit please take the time to read it for what it says not what you want it to say.'
And again OP that is a list of what YOU THINK an RPG should have, not what a RPG must have to Qualify as one.
I think it's ridiculous that any company would claim to be the authority of anything they didn't invent themselves...
Ironic, though... Sounds as if the OP thinks HE'S the RPG authority.
I think the safest way to approach the analysis of the genre of Diablo/2 would be to compare it to other games. Arguably, the biggest commonality between all RPGs is the avatar. It is very defining of an RPG to have a sole character who evolves over the course of the game through statistics, skills and equipment. Quests, long-term character goals, and a sense of adventure are also very common. Hand in hand would be unrestricted travel throughout an open world practically at any time.
I could go on, but the point is: Diablo has many aspects found in most RPGs. Regardless, it declares itself as a hybrid. The action-RPG subgenre is known to be light on the story and heavy on the fast-paced action. If you're looking for a video game just like Dungeons and Dragons, you should know better.
In the same sense, Hellgate is more of an Action RPG, too... Maybe they should've just emphasized the action prefix before having someone like the OP pop a blood vessel... It's just your everyday marketing.
Of all insane claims I have seen in this place, this takes the price.
Diablo not an RPG?
Mate, do your research, Diablo invented the action RPG genre.
Diablo is not to be measured against other RPG's for determening wether or not it is one, all other games are measured against diablo to determine wether or not is an action RPG.
But as you say, you do not even care what other thinks, it is not an RPG in your book, and that is fine we are all entitled to our opinions after all.
But why then even bring it up?
You are not going to change your view regardles of what arguments we put forth obviously.
But to be frank the "We who do not think diablo is an RPG club", is by all probability the loneliest club in the gaming community.
Since its release this is the first and only time I have heard this claim.
I migth not agree with the statement that FSS is THE authority on action RPG's.
But Diablo and DiabloII with their expansions are still the yardstick against wich all others are measured.
Saying that they are not RPG's is like saying a meter is not a distance.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Originally posted by Jerek_
I wonder if you honestly even believe what you type, or if you live in a made up world of facts. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Of all insane claims I have seen in this place, this takes the price. Diablo not an RPG? Mate, do your research, Diablo invented the action RPG genre. Diablo is not to be measured against other RPG's for determening wether or not it is one, all other games are measured against diablo to determine wether or not is an action RPG.
Your claim is insane you are not really argumentating or giving some proofs, all you are saying is "Diablo is action RPG, it invented it, NO ARGUE ABOUT IT". If you could react to what I already said what defines RPG it would be worthy to read, if you're bored to do that, then what the hell are you doing in this thread.
Hmm, yeah. Just so you know you are trying to say something isn't a RPG that fits the actual definition.
I think you have to go write Miriam Webster's Dictionary and complain to them. Note #2 the last 5 words in the sentence. Let us know how that turns out.
1.
a method of instruction or psychotherapy aimed at changing attitudes and behavior, in which participants act out designated roles relevant to real-life situations.
2.
the modifying of a person's behavior to accord with a desired personal image, as to impress others or conform to a particular environment.
I don't post often because I find it diluting to say the least when so many good views are just passed by because of biast people who can't be swayed in either direction. With that said, let me educate.
Flashship Studios is the branch off of Blizzard North. Blizzard North made both Diablo 1 and Diablo 2. Both titles had story. Just because people where too busy with the intense hack and slash action of this awesome ActionRPG title doesn't mean there was no story. If you READ the quests and put half ass effort into realizing who Diablo was and his relation to the other Prime Evils, then it would just get you a better reason to go back out and do the Hack&Slash fun.
So, RPG's need story, Diablo has a story. 1 point for Flagship as RPG Authority.
In Diablo 1 & 2 you had to create a character, pick tune his abilites and make descions about the equipment he would use and why. You had a Talent system much like Feats or Spells in a D&D Setting. You had to put some sort of thought into how your character would play out. That is another requirment for an RPG to be classified as such.
So, RPG's need character development. Diablo had that. 1 more point for Flagship as RPG Authority.
What also set this game apart from the rest was it's replay value. Sure maybe the tile sets got boring. But staring at the same land mass that never changed in titles like NWN or MMORPG's like EQ just meant I wouldn't have to tread the same ground over and over and raid the same scripted boss over and over. In Diablo 1 & 2 you had to make decisions based on what mods had what resistances at that time. That meant no boss fight was always the same.
So. RPG's usually intitle the player to some replay value as far as different character builds, dicisions and in hole a different adventure every time. Diablo 1 & 2 had that. 1 more point for Flagship Studios.
With all that Said. There is 3 valid reasons as to why Flagship can say the are the Authority in Action RPGs. There was a lot of action in those games. I felt like a hero everytime. Also 3 very strong RPG elements witch make it a what? Exactly.
Just because every other crappy copycat game Claims to be action RPG title that can't compete with the inovation of Diablo 1 & 2 doesnt mean the hole genre is a joke. Quit playing copycat games like FATE or Dungeon Runners. There gunna feel played out because they add nothing to the genre. There just people wanting to make money with someone elses good ideas.
At this point I'm just rambling because I can't fathom how someone could take something like "Action RPG Authority" out of context when it most definitly applies to this company. Name one other Action RPG or even an RPG for that matter that sold more copies then Diablo 1 and 2. You won't find one.
The post above me is just so flawed I don't want to react to all of it.
Character development and skills don't make a game. The game needs to have social skills, social quests, diplomacy, different ways of achieving things, non-linear world, otherwise it's an action game with a few RPG features. And also I have no idea why are you mentioning some crap free pseudommos like dungeon runners here. And what the hell does the number of sells have to do with a quality? Is Michael Bay an authority between directors?
There are companies that were doing RPGs for decades not just two silly action games with no RP feeling at all.
The post above me is just so flawed I don't want to react to all of it. Character development and skills don't make a game. The game needs to have social skills, social quests, diplomacy, different ways of achieving things, non-linear world, otherwise it's an action game with a few RPG features. And also I have no idea why are you mentioning some crap free pseudommos like dungeon runners here. And what the hell does the number of sells have to do with a quality? Is Michael Bay an authority between directors? There are companies that were doing RPGs for decades not just two silly action games with no RP feeling at all.
Siince character development, character growth and skills are not aspects of an RPG to you then im guessing:
RP to you is a bunch of nerds acting out their character like they're actually that character.
Example:
Player 1: "I will destroy all zombies for the Templar Order!!!!!"
Player 2: "Aye! I shall support you in your cause!!!!!"
You really have no argument and are only begging for more "RP" nerds in the gaming community. This game is rated M17+ by ESRB in Canada and it has no room for 12 year olds acting out their characters. Thanks!
Oh and notice you're the only person in this whole community that is shallow enough to make his or her own definition for an RPG. Notice, Hellgate: London was even listed on mmorpg.com
Call the community on this website turds, call the site administrators morons, call Flagship Studios, Blizzard Entertainment and Maxis idiots all you want for calling this game and Diablo, RPGs. You probably even edited the wikipedia article to your liking, we all know Wikipedia is not a reliable source if you want accuracy. So no thanks to you and hope you enjoy the "RP" feeling when you act out Arthas the Lightbringer on WoW. Cheers.
Just to let you know thill, I myself have roleplayed in Diablo 1 and 2 quite alot. Most of my friends at a local gaming center had fun doing this almost every night. Roleplay in my definition is putting yourself into something you are not. In todays clarification of RPG, diablo had that plus some. And everything about diablo screams action. My definition of action is promoting movement in something and at a mass amount. Meaning in diablo i could kill more than just one entity at a time, provoking action. And diablo and HGL are by far not silly games. They have been games that have created an easy play style for anyone from serious gamers to non serious gamers and those who fall in between. Its like playing killer instict on crack. But you can level that same character and develop your own story of that. Now as to the story of Diablo and you saying that the game has no storyline. For that i say your simply blind. The man who wrote the diablo books is nothing short of a phenominal writer. The storys he portrays are really deep. You must be a person who goes through games, not reading quests, nor caring to understand the game. Because if you werent then you would easily see Diablo has a fantastic storyline that continues throughout 3 books. One of them yet to be published until a such and such movie comes out. (Rumor Only) I only read a small sample of some of your other replys because frankly people like you are the same people i dont talk to for obvious reasons. You take something, and judge it on its cover, without reading deeply. Now the last thing im going to state on this is one thing you posted that is false but by no means is it your fault. You posted a quote stating the HGL was created by the core creators of diablo, which in all truth is not true. If im wrong then ask me this HGL staff. Who was diablo 1 and 2's lead designer? Who did almost half of diablo 2 and lod expansion packs art? Were are these people? Apparently not on your staff. You guys seriously need to drop the crap about being core creators of diablo 2, and just state you worked on the game. Yeah you have some core members, but not nearly as much as you portray. Its almost like you guys are using it to sell some half -#$% game. Dont get me wrong, ive never played HGL and never will. Im a fan of diablo, and will always be. But I will not try to play a game based off some false advertisement of lies you use to sell your game. Now i wonder why blizzard really got rid of blizzard north team? Care to share light on that subject.
It comes from Pen & Paper D&D type games started by Gary Gygax. Its not just playing a ROLE anymore since every game has you playing a ROLE. Its about having a character with statistics governing its abilities such as Strength, Dexterity, Intelligence, etc that increase over time as the character gains experience. Its formed the basis for 100s of thousands of games to come out since. An RPG has to have leveling of your character, the ability to equip different items, and classically to play as different types of classes, although not always. Oldschool RPG games use dicerolls for most everything. But they dont have to stay Oldschool to remain RPGs. such as Spellborn which drops all dicerolls, and allows pure action and use of skill to matter and pretty much reworks all the old RPG conventions in very interesting ways, especially as an MMORPG.
Diablo IS an RPG. Its just not one with much depth of story and character development other than statistics based. The characters have no personality. Its purely for action gaming. Thus Action RPG, Hack N Slash. is that genre.
Just like music can have sub-genres. Like Electronic music has Trance, Breakbeat, Jungle, Ambient, and a slew of other specifications. RPGs can and do also.
MMO's also have specifics. Like MMORPG. And while Hellgate fits the RPG part, it fails in the MMO part. There is nothing Massively Multiplayer about it. Its just a multiplayer game like most all the other multiplayer games out there like Counterstrike or Halo. Having a 3D lobby where a few more players can hang out, doesnt make it an MMO and you'd be a naieve to believe it is at all. Its not a persistant online gameworld. It doesnt require near the work an MMO takes to establish and maintain.
Bring back Liberty, Freedom, & The Constition. Save America from Corporatism. -RonPaul2008
What do you seek in a game? That it must fit your specific unique definition of RPG before you will open the box? That it must be made by some authority in that game genre?
Come on, do you enjoy the game per se, irrespective of who make it and who is who? If you do not enjoy HGL, move on.
Or, well, have you ever played it yet in some depth? Starting a flame war on who is authority is like arguing whether pepsi taste better than coke. What for?
This is the text from Hellgate overview. "The RPG Authority – Flagship Studios was founded by the core creators of Diablo, one of the biggest PC gaming franchises in history with over 13 million units sold worldwide – they are the first, last and only voice in the world of action RPGs. " Is this a joke? I mean.. Diablo was a RPG? That's some bloody news for me. Is Tropico a RPG too because you roleplay el presidente on tropical island? Can we call Maxis studio The RPG Authority, because they were the creators of Sims, the best RPG ? You know RPG requires more than just building a character and smashing your right mouse button. Someone should tell those guys ..
the actual developer who designed and conceptualized diablo 2 DOES NOT WORK for FSS. He is at perpetual entertainment.
So in a sense, HGL is not really made by the creator of the diablo franchise, but rather the grunt workers who were told what to do at blizzard north. Roper was just the manager over seeing the project.
Just a bit of useful info for those claiming the whole "its make by the makers of diablo so there fore it must be good"
And I guess you kould kall it an action rpg.. kinda old skool arcade like as well. but there have been better RPGs that were just as simple graphics wise. Final Fantasy has been a klassic for ages and really pulls you into the character of a role playing game, at times even characters
And I guess you kould kall it an action rpg.. kinda old skool arcade like as well. but there have been better RPGs that were just as simple graphics wise. Final Fantasy has been a klassic for ages and really pulls you into the character of a role playing game, at times even characters
Originally posted by Ogrelin
Fantasysetting = RPG in the gameworld....
All games are fantasty
Yeah the old console final fantasy games got some deep storylines.
If anyone has a right to claim the title of "first, last and only voice in the world of action RPGs"... it is the guys who created Diablo, and Ultima Online
anyway you look at a game... you are smashing buttons in one way or another, cry about it dude, an RPG is an RPG... it doesn't matter how many or what keys you use to play it.
Take a deep breath, calm down, call forth composure.
You guys convinced me in one thing, that tropico has become the best RPG I have ever played. I think Topop software are currently the RPG authorities and they have the right to call themselves that way. And I wish they will release Tropico Online soon. Ultimate economical, political MMORPG
In addition why is someone giving links to wikipedia. If someone doesn't have enough trust even to sites like ign.com or gamespot.ign why should someone has to have it for wikipedia.
If anyone has a right to claim the title of "first, last and only voice in the world of action RPGs"... it is the guys who created Diablo, and Ultima Online
anyway you look at a game... you are smashing buttons in one way or another, cry about it dude, an RPG is an RPG... it doesn't matter how many or what keys you use to play it.
Take a deep breath, calm down, call forth composure.
You guys convinced me in one thing, that tropico has become the best RPG I have ever played. I think Topop software are currently the RPG authorities and they have the right to call themselves that way. And I wish they will release Tropico Online soon. Ultimate economical, political MMORPG
In addition why is someone giving links to wikipedia. If someone doesn't have enough trust even to sites like ign.com or gamespot.ign why should someone has to have it for wikipedia.
Rather than use the roleplaying game link from wikipedia I think this one is more apt:
If you want to have the section that describes the Op its this part:
"CRPGs often face criticism from players of traditional RPGs. A common reason for this is the fact that many CRPGs focus on combat and statistical character management instead of storytelling and thorough characterization ."
When Diablo first hit the shelves and had all the articles etc. It was touted as an "Action RPG". Prior to Diablo the phrase wasn't used. Much like EA/mythic and their desire to copyright realm vs realm due to DAOC first using the terminology.
And yes, the Sims games are an RPG so is Tropico, however, in your rush to jump on some huge crusade you completely ignored the fact that the Sim franchise (short for simulation) was created and marketed to avoid the RPG stigmata which back in the day was not really a positive thing what with pnp DnD being the Devil's tool. Its all just marketing talk and doublespeak, much like the OP trying to foist his OPINION of an Rpg as the majority opinion. When NO GAME played on a pc/mac/console is a true RPG, they are CRPGs, if you dress up and run around you are larping. Hell, if you play a racing game it could be considered a RPG since you play the role of a race car driver going through the racing season.
Diablo and the likes are hack&slash RPGs with the emphasys on Hack&Slash and less on Roleplaying. But the system that allows you to modify any part of your character is a part of the RPG universe, hence, RPG.
Diablo has been an RPG since before you were born likely, so ehh..who cares what you think ^^
Of all insane claims I have seen in this place, this takes the price. Diablo not an RPG? Mate, do your research, Diablo invented the action RPG genre. Diablo is not to be measured against other RPG's for determening wether or not it is one, all other games are measured against diablo to determine wether or not is an action RPG. But as you say, you do not even care what other thinks, it is not an RPG in your book, and that is fine we are all entitled to our opinions after all. But why then even bring it up? You are not going to change your view regardles of what arguments we put forth obviously. But to be frank the "We who do not think diablo is an RPG club", is by all probability the loneliest club in the gaming community. Since its release this is the first and only time I have heard this claim. I migth not agree with the statement that FSS is THE authority on action RPG's. But Diablo and DiabloII with their expansions are still the yardstick against wich all others are measured. Saying that they are not RPG's is like saying a meter is not a distance.
I'm not saying this to be rude man really. If you are going to tell someone to do research you really should have done your own. The Diablo series is credited for "revitalizing" the action rpg market but is in no way whatsoever considered to be the first of it's kind. That title goes to far older games such as the Mana series and hell even many games made back in the 80's are thought of as early action rpgs because they used elements such as character progression, economy, exploration, loot and other stats while keeping a more "action" based combat system. Those are the games that gave birth to Diablo later on. Like I said I'm not trying to be a jerk it's just some of us are old enough to remember enjoying the "action rpgs" long before Diablo ever came around.
Yes Diablo seems to have always been considered a rpg, because it falls under the label of action rpg which really only means in technical terms that a game with the typical elements that make a rpg is more focused on real time combat rather than turn based such as traditional games like Fallout, Baldurs Gate, Arcanum etc..hence the word action.
Anyhow, the best part of this thread though has been the repeated non-sense you always see someone post about where basically any game you can "roleplay" in can be classified under the rpg genra title..
If that was the case than every single game ever created could be called a rpg...
Yup Quake was an rpg because I roleplayed some space marine killing demons..
Thought Crysis was a first person shooter? nope it's an rpg because I roleplay that I'm a guy in a nanosuit killing N. Koreans..
Supreme Commander a RTS? Wrong, you guessed it..rpg. I'm roleplaying that I'm a big robot building armies..
Point is rpg as a gaming genra does in fact have some type of guidlines that make it such.
PS: Here ya go went ahead and did the research for some..though I personally think wikis are a joke to base an argument off of this does at least list many of the early action rpgs under the History section.
Comments
Also, Square are good at ~stories~ but there's no RP whatsoever in their games. They're as much a RPG as Diablo is, but with a prominent story.
For a proper RPG experience barring pen and paper you have to look at games like Planescape: Torment, Fallout or The Witcher, just to give a newer example. Games where you decide (within boundaries, sure, but they're needed to tell a story, heh) what your character says and how he/she behaves. Those are generally accepted to be RPGs in the proper sense.
Please read my post did I say fantasy setting or did I say a fantasy world. A fantasy world can have elves, or battle armor, or what ever you fancy, hence the term fantasy world. Before quoting a post and calling it bullshit please take the time to read it for what it says not what you want it to say.'
And again OP that is a list of what YOU THINK an RPG should have, not what a RPG must have to Qualify as one.
I think it's ridiculous that any company would claim to be the authority of anything they didn't invent themselves...
Ironic, though... Sounds as if the OP thinks HE'S the RPG authority.
I think the safest way to approach the analysis of the genre of Diablo/2 would be to compare it to other games. Arguably, the biggest commonality between all RPGs is the avatar. It is very defining of an RPG to have a sole character who evolves over the course of the game through statistics, skills and equipment. Quests, long-term character goals, and a sense of adventure are also very common. Hand in hand would be unrestricted travel throughout an open world practically at any time.
I could go on, but the point is: Diablo has many aspects found in most RPGs. Regardless, it declares itself as a hybrid. The action-RPG subgenre is known to be light on the story and heavy on the fast-paced action. If you're looking for a video game just like Dungeons and Dragons, you should know better.
In the same sense, Hellgate is more of an Action RPG, too... Maybe they should've just emphasized the action prefix before having someone like the OP pop a blood vessel... It's just your everyday marketing.
Of all insane claims I have seen in this place, this takes the price.
Diablo not an RPG?
Mate, do your research, Diablo invented the action RPG genre.
Diablo is not to be measured against other RPG's for determening wether or not it is one, all other games are measured against diablo to determine wether or not is an action RPG.
But as you say, you do not even care what other thinks, it is not an RPG in your book, and that is fine we are all entitled to our opinions after all.
But why then even bring it up?
You are not going to change your view regardles of what arguments we put forth obviously.
But to be frank the "We who do not think diablo is an RPG club", is by all probability the loneliest club in the gaming community.
Since its release this is the first and only time I have heard this claim.
I migth not agree with the statement that FSS is THE authority on action RPG's.
But Diablo and DiabloII with their expansions are still the yardstick against wich all others are measured.
Saying that they are not RPG's is like saying a meter is not a distance.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Jerek_
I wonder if you honestly even believe what you type, or if you live in a made up world of facts.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Diablo 2 was a online RPG. Action RPG, or whatever.
Song can be dedicated right towards the OP.
Your claim is insane you are not really argumentating or giving some proofs, all you are saying is "Diablo is action RPG, it invented it, NO ARGUE ABOUT IT". If you could react to what I already said what defines RPG it would be worthy to read, if you're bored to do that, then what the hell are you doing in this thread.
REALITY CHECK
Hmm, yeah. Just so you know you are trying to say something isn't a RPG that fits the actual definition.
I think you have to go write Miriam Webster's Dictionary and complain to them. Note #2 the last 5 words in the sentence. Let us know how that turns out.
Qualification for RPG:
1) Control a few characters that gain experience and level up.
That's it.
Then I suppose Fallout or Morrowing is NOT a rpg.
The Sims is a RPG game based on that, because you control multiple characters there with each set of special skills.
REALITY CHECK
.... The sims is an RPG. You need to put down the crack pipe and walk away from the computer.
Note Sim is short for Simulation. it is thrusting you into simulating the role of the avatar in which you control.
That is role playing buddy.
You really need to define your definition of role playing because it doesn't fit any dictionary out there.
I don't post often because I find it diluting to say the least when so many good views are just passed by because of biast people who can't be swayed in either direction. With that said, let me educate.
Flashship Studios is the branch off of Blizzard North. Blizzard North made both Diablo 1 and Diablo 2. Both titles had story. Just because people where too busy with the intense hack and slash action of this awesome ActionRPG title doesn't mean there was no story. If you READ the quests and put half ass effort into realizing who Diablo was and his relation to the other Prime Evils, then it would just get you a better reason to go back out and do the Hack&Slash fun.
So, RPG's need story, Diablo has a story. 1 point for Flagship as RPG Authority.
In Diablo 1 & 2 you had to create a character, pick tune his abilites and make descions about the equipment he would use and why. You had a Talent system much like Feats or Spells in a D&D Setting. You had to put some sort of thought into how your character would play out. That is another requirment for an RPG to be classified as such.
So, RPG's need character development. Diablo had that. 1 more point for Flagship as RPG Authority.
What also set this game apart from the rest was it's replay value. Sure maybe the tile sets got boring. But staring at the same land mass that never changed in titles like NWN or MMORPG's like EQ just meant I wouldn't have to tread the same ground over and over and raid the same scripted boss over and over. In Diablo 1 & 2 you had to make decisions based on what mods had what resistances at that time. That meant no boss fight was always the same.
So. RPG's usually intitle the player to some replay value as far as different character builds, dicisions and in hole a different adventure every time. Diablo 1 & 2 had that. 1 more point for Flagship Studios.
With all that Said. There is 3 valid reasons as to why Flagship can say the are the Authority in Action RPGs. There was a lot of action in those games. I felt like a hero everytime. Also 3 very strong RPG elements witch make it a what? Exactly.
Just because every other crappy copycat game Claims to be action RPG title that can't compete with the inovation of Diablo 1 & 2 doesnt mean the hole genre is a joke. Quit playing copycat games like FATE or Dungeon Runners. There gunna feel played out because they add nothing to the genre. There just people wanting to make money with someone elses good ideas.
At this point I'm just rambling because I can't fathom how someone could take something like "Action RPG Authority" out of context when it most definitly applies to this company. Name one other Action RPG or even an RPG for that matter that sold more copies then Diablo 1 and 2. You won't find one.
The post above me is just so flawed I don't want to react to all of it.
Character development and skills don't make a game. The game needs to have social skills, social quests, diplomacy, different ways of achieving things, non-linear world, otherwise it's an action game with a few RPG features. And also I have no idea why are you mentioning some crap free pseudommos like dungeon runners here. And what the hell does the number of sells have to do with a quality? Is Michael Bay an authority between directors?
There are companies that were doing RPGs for decades not just two silly action games with no RP feeling at all.
REALITY CHECK
just remember thillian those are your opinions on what a game is or isnt. :P but no I dont agree with the claims made about any game studio.
Playing: Not much actively.
Games played: to many to list, been playing MMO's since 2001
--------------------------
RP to you is a bunch of nerds acting out their character like they're actually that character.
Example:
Player 1: "I will destroy all zombies for the Templar Order!!!!!"
Player 2: "Aye! I shall support you in your cause!!!!!"
You really have no argument and are only begging for more "RP" nerds in the gaming community. This game is rated M17+ by ESRB in Canada and it has no room for 12 year olds acting out their characters. Thanks!
Oh and notice you're the only person in this whole community that is shallow enough to make his or her own definition for an RPG. Notice, Hellgate: London was even listed on mmorpg.com
Call the community on this website turds, call the site administrators morons, call Flagship Studios, Blizzard Entertainment and Maxis idiots all you want for calling this game and Diablo, RPGs. You probably even edited the wikipedia article to your liking, we all know Wikipedia is not a reliable source if you want accuracy. So no thanks to you and hope you enjoy the "RP" feeling when you act out Arthas the Lightbringer on WoW. Cheers.
Just to let you know thill, I myself have roleplayed in Diablo 1 and 2 quite alot. Most of my friends at a local gaming center had fun doing this almost every night. Roleplay in my definition is putting yourself into something you are not. In todays clarification of RPG, diablo had that plus some. And everything about diablo screams action. My definition of action is promoting movement in something and at a mass amount. Meaning in diablo i could kill more than just one entity at a time, provoking action. And diablo and HGL are by far not silly games. They have been games that have created an easy play style for anyone from serious gamers to non serious gamers and those who fall in between. Its like playing killer instict on crack. But you can level that same character and develop your own story of that. Now as to the story of Diablo and you saying that the game has no storyline. For that i say your simply blind. The man who wrote the diablo books is nothing short of a phenominal writer. The storys he portrays are really deep. You must be a person who goes through games, not reading quests, nor caring to understand the game. Because if you werent then you would easily see Diablo has a fantastic storyline that continues throughout 3 books. One of them yet to be published until a such and such movie comes out. (Rumor Only) I only read a small sample of some of your other replys because frankly people like you are the same people i dont talk to for obvious reasons. You take something, and judge it on its cover, without reading deeply. Now the last thing im going to state on this is one thing you posted that is false but by no means is it your fault. You posted a quote stating the HGL was created by the core creators of diablo, which in all truth is not true. If im wrong then ask me this HGL staff. Who was diablo 1 and 2's lead designer? Who did almost half of diablo 2 and lod expansion packs art? Were are these people? Apparently not on your staff. You guys seriously need to drop the crap about being core creators of diablo 2, and just state you worked on the game. Yeah you have some core members, but not nearly as much as you portray. Its almost like you guys are using it to sell some half -#$% game. Dont get me wrong, ive never played HGL and never will. Im a fan of diablo, and will always be. But I will not try to play a game based off some false advertisement of lies you use to sell your game. Now i wonder why blizzard really got rid of blizzard north team? Care to share light on that subject.
RPG.. What makes an RPG?
It comes from Pen & Paper D&D type games started by Gary Gygax. Its not just playing a ROLE anymore since every game has you playing a ROLE. Its about having a character with statistics governing its abilities such as Strength, Dexterity, Intelligence, etc that increase over time as the character gains experience. Its formed the basis for 100s of thousands of games to come out since. An RPG has to have leveling of your character, the ability to equip different items, and classically to play as different types of classes, although not always. Oldschool RPG games use dicerolls for most everything. But they dont have to stay Oldschool to remain RPGs. such as Spellborn which drops all dicerolls, and allows pure action and use of skill to matter and pretty much reworks all the old RPG conventions in very interesting ways, especially as an MMORPG.
Diablo IS an RPG. Its just not one with much depth of story and character development other than statistics based. The characters have no personality. Its purely for action gaming. Thus Action RPG, Hack N Slash. is that genre.
Just like music can have sub-genres. Like Electronic music has Trance, Breakbeat, Jungle, Ambient, and a slew of other specifications. RPGs can and do also.
MMO's also have specifics. Like MMORPG. And while Hellgate fits the RPG part, it fails in the MMO part. There is nothing Massively Multiplayer about it. Its just a multiplayer game like most all the other multiplayer games out there like Counterstrike or Halo. Having a 3D lobby where a few more players can hang out, doesnt make it an MMO and you'd be a naieve to believe it is at all. Its not a persistant online gameworld. It doesnt require near the work an MMO takes to establish and maintain.
Bring back Liberty, Freedom, & The Constition. Save America from Corporatism. -RonPaul2008
To the OP:
What do you seek in a game? That it must fit your specific unique definition of RPG before you will open the box? That it must be made by some authority in that game genre?
Come on, do you enjoy the game per se, irrespective of who make it and who is who? If you do not enjoy HGL, move on.
Or, well, have you ever played it yet in some depth? Starting a flame war on who is authority is like arguing whether pepsi taste better than coke. What for?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Role-playing_game
Just read that...please.
-Vin
on a side note:
the actual developer who designed and conceptualized diablo 2 DOES NOT WORK for FSS. He is at perpetual entertainment.
So in a sense, HGL is not really made by the creator of the diablo franchise, but rather the grunt workers who were told what to do at blizzard north. Roper was just the manager over seeing the project.
Just a bit of useful info for those claiming the whole "its make by the makers of diablo so there fore it must be good"
And I guess you kould kall it an action rpg.. kinda old skool arcade like as well. but there have been better RPGs that were just as simple graphics wise. Final Fantasy has been a klassic for ages and really pulls you into the character of a role playing game, at times even characters
All games are fantasty
Games I've Played: SilkRoad, Flyff, NeoCron, PlanetSide, Rapplez, UpshiftRacer, Drift City, TB, Kwonho, ArchLord, AoA, Exteel, WolfTeam, Shaiyan, WoKF, FFXIV, STO, KoTR, ESO, Defiance, Mabinogi
Games I'm Playing: Warframe/STO
Games I'm Pondering: The Secret World
All games are fantasty
Yeah the old console final fantasy games got some deep storylines.
You guys convinced me in one thing, that tropico has become the best RPG I have ever played. I think Topop software are currently the RPG authorities and they have the right to call themselves that way. And I wish they will release Tropico Online soon. Ultimate economical, political MMORPG
In addition why is someone giving links to wikipedia. If someone doesn't have enough trust even to sites like ign.com or gamespot.ign why should someone has to have it for wikipedia.
REALITY CHECK
You guys convinced me in one thing, that tropico has become the best RPG I have ever played. I think Topop software are currently the RPG authorities and they have the right to call themselves that way. And I wish they will release Tropico Online soon. Ultimate economical, political MMORPG
In addition why is someone giving links to wikipedia. If someone doesn't have enough trust even to sites like ign.com or gamespot.ign why should someone has to have it for wikipedia.
Rather than use the roleplaying game link from wikipedia I think this one is more apt:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_role-playing_game
If you want to have the section that describes the Op its this part:
"CRPGs often face criticism from players of traditional RPGs. A common reason for this is the fact that many CRPGs focus on combat and statistical character management instead of storytelling and thorough characterization ."
When Diablo first hit the shelves and had all the articles etc. It was touted as an "Action RPG". Prior to Diablo the phrase wasn't used. Much like EA/mythic and their desire to copyright realm vs realm due to DAOC first using the terminology.
And yes, the Sims games are an RPG so is Tropico, however, in your rush to jump on some huge crusade you completely ignored the fact that the Sim franchise (short for simulation) was created and marketed to avoid the RPG stigmata which back in the day was not really a positive thing what with pnp DnD being the Devil's tool. Its all just marketing talk and doublespeak, much like the OP trying to foist his OPINION of an Rpg as the majority opinion. When NO GAME played on a pc/mac/console is a true RPG, they are CRPGs, if you dress up and run around you are larping. Hell, if you play a racing game it could be considered a RPG since you play the role of a race car driver going through the racing season.
@ OP
Diablo and the likes are hack&slash RPGs with the emphasys on Hack&Slash and less on Roleplaying. But the system that allows you to modify any part of your character is a part of the RPG universe, hence, RPG.
Diablo has been an RPG since before you were born likely, so ehh..who cares what you think ^^
I'm not saying this to be rude man really. If you are going to tell someone to do research you really should have done your own. The Diablo series is credited for "revitalizing" the action rpg market but is in no way whatsoever considered to be the first of it's kind. That title goes to far older games such as the Mana series and hell even many games made back in the 80's are thought of as early action rpgs because they used elements such as character progression, economy, exploration, loot and other stats while keeping a more "action" based combat system. Those are the games that gave birth to Diablo later on. Like I said I'm not trying to be a jerk it's just some of us are old enough to remember enjoying the "action rpgs" long before Diablo ever came around.
Yes Diablo seems to have always been considered a rpg, because it falls under the label of action rpg which really only means in technical terms that a game with the typical elements that make a rpg is more focused on real time combat rather than turn based such as traditional games like Fallout, Baldurs Gate, Arcanum etc..hence the word action.
Anyhow, the best part of this thread though has been the repeated non-sense you always see someone post about where basically any game you can "roleplay" in can be classified under the rpg genra title..
If that was the case than every single game ever created could be called a rpg...
Yup Quake was an rpg because I roleplayed some space marine killing demons..
Thought Crysis was a first person shooter? nope it's an rpg because I roleplay that I'm a guy in a nanosuit killing N. Koreans..
Supreme Commander a RTS? Wrong, you guessed it..rpg. I'm roleplaying that I'm a big robot building armies..
Point is rpg as a gaming genra does in fact have some type of guidlines that make it such.
PS: Here ya go went ahead and did the research for some..though I personally think wikis are a joke to base an argument off of this does at least list many of the early action rpgs under the History section.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action_role-playing_game