Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
Next-Generation MMORPGs: New Innovations or Formulaic Garbage?
rcorvin
Member Posts: 21
Recently I've been pondering exactly where MMORPGs are going to go in the near future. In 2008 we'll be getting the proper "next generation" batch of MMOs (WAR, AOC, etc.) which will obviously have some shiny new features and so on and so forth.
So far we've seen that WAR is at least trying some new stuff - although how different it will ultimately be from what we have now, I don't know.
At present time, most of what we have pretty much boils down to "Generic Asian Crap", and "WoW clones", with a few exceptions. Now, to be honest I have little problem with this - although I think that the gigantic flood of generic asian crap is detrimental to the genre as a whole, because it introduces nothing new to the mix and it manages to do so in an outstanding mediocre fashion without so much as a pretense of providing a more entertaining experience than "grind grind grind grind grind grind grind".
WoW Clones are also not terrible, but they're bland - the same game with a different face, so to speak. We don't need more of that.
What do you want to see in the next generation or two of MMORPGs? What do you EXPECT to see?
For my part, I would like to see:
* More skill-based systems, less class/level-based systems.
* Death Penalties to continue to be light and friendly, if not nonexistant - perhaps with multiple difficulty levels wherein you can decide precisely what level of "punishment" you wish to receive as a result of dying, ranging from permadeath to equipment/skill loss.
* More depth to character models. I'd like to be able to make them do a lot more than swing a sword - it'd be nice to actually have support built-in for microphones, and for the characters to talk when we talk. Actually, having a purely microphone-based chat system would be neat, albeit impractical.
* Character Customization: I want to look like what I want to look like. I don't want to look like every other guy out there - I want the typical MMO to be like CoH/CoV, where very few people look alike at all.
* Equipment Customization: In the event that the game in question has equipment, I want to be able to tailor it's look quickly and easily. Once more, I don't want to look like the fifty other guys wearing this same model of armor.
* Elimination of Raiding: Raiding should not be a requirement to reach the upper echelons of the game. As a matter of fact...
* Elimination of Combat Emphasis:
As a tabletop gamer, this is something I'd really, really love to see. We may get this eventually with World of Darkness Online - but I don't know. Basically, I don't want to make combat inviable or worthless in any MMORPG - however, I do not want it to be super-emphasized. Eventually, yes, one will have to fight - but one should also have other options.
In this regard I propose that combat itself not give you experience - instead, in the future MMO, accomplishing tasks/quests is what should give you the actual experience, and the manner in which you do it should determine your reward in experience, and in other matters.
So let's say you're assigned to remove a problem of some sort. You COULD go and kill the individual/organization you are being asked to remove. You could also intimidate them into leaving, destroy their business (if applicable) through politicking, terrorize their clients (if applicable), or warn them that if they don't get out of town or go into hiding in some manner, they're going to be sleeping with the sharks.
How you go about this quest depends on the end result and your reward. If you single-handedly kill off a mob organization, you would of course get experience... and most likely make enemies, and become somewhat famous.
This would result in other mob organizations hiring you, or wanting to get rid of you. Maybe you intimidated the mob organization into leaving - but maybe they only went underground while plotting a way to get rid of you and the person you're working for.
Perhaps you bribed them - or warned them, even! Well, then. You know who to go in order to get favors, information, or they might even be indebted to you - something that could come in handy later.
All these options provide experience and would be successful completions of the task, but how you go about it should determine what side-benefits you get - if any. And hey, you might make enemies along the way.
* Game-Wide Changes:
The players are the kings of the game - if the game is based off of Vampire: The Masquerade, a player SHOULD be able to ascend to the rank of Prince, or Seneschal, or whatever. And somebody else should be able to, in time, dethrone her. Cities should change hands, domains should be fought over, ancient horrors from beyond and the end of the world should be anticipated and feared.
If a player sets his enemy's haven on fire, his enemy should - in fact - be in trouble. That player should also be in trouble with the police if he's found out.
Mortal players could start becoming aware of supernatural influence, and of course fighting against it - or at least attempting to remove supernatural influence on organizations such as the Police, or the local Government. This should all make a difference.
If a clever vampire player wanted to, he really COULD take the "30 Days of Night" angle, and go have a massacre-feast in Alaska, and yes, somebody would have to cover it up.
* GM Events:
Remember EverQuest? The original, where GMs would make themselves NPCs, go out and roleplay with people - give them tasks in real-time, reward them for following through? I do. I thought it was the most awesome thing ever.
Nobody does that anymore. It is my opinion that games need more of this - lots more. There should be "Storyteller" Staffers whose job is, yes, specifically to go out there as NPCs - set things up for players to do. Give the game a metaplot. Let THEM decide what's going to happen when the Ancient Horror From Beyond arises.
Does Kithicor Forest become blighted and horrible nightmare, or does it remain the undead-free, lush forest it is?
So, folks. What do you think about my "ideal" MMORPG? What do you yourselves look forward to, and want? Will we see anything like this, or will we just see one or two innovations of lesser scale, on the level of World of Warcraft or the like?
Comments
Not to flame the OP, but this has been a thorn pricking at my side for the past week. It's gotten too annoying to ignore.
What, exactly, has copied WoW thus far? Barring everything released in '04/'05 (Since that's only up to a year after WoW was released, and there's no way you can hope to even develope a copycat game in that amount of time) and actually very timidly barring '06, since that's really stretching it in terms of incoroporating entirely new systems into a game, there's only a few games worth noting, and not many even come close to being a "WoW-clone."
World of Warcraft, released November 23rd, 2004.
(Anything released in '04/'05 not able to copy WoW)
Guild Wars Factions, released April 28th, 2006. It has Elves and Swords and Magic in common.. Doesn't seem very much reason to label it a clone to me. It's not even a subscription-based game.
Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, released January 30th, 2007. Not sure how much it has in common with WoW, but it's safe to assume being a "WoW-clone" wasn't what kept it from being successful.
Hellgate: London, released October 31st, 2007. No explanations needed here. If you feel this game clones WoW in any way you need to step back a minute and ask yourself "Just how much logic am I using on a daily basis?"
Tabula Rasa, released November 2nd, 2007. Sci-Fi themed with a sticky targetting reticle (which takes into account factors such as distance, cover, and body position) and heavy emphasis on storyline and PvE real-time events. I'm pretty sure I've seen many a person complain about the lack of these things in WoW.
Pirates of the Burning Sea, release set for January 22nd, 2008. Hasn't even been released, but I see people mentioning it. It's got naval combat.. Not sure, but last time I checked you couldn't even pilot a boat in WoW.
So where, exactly, am I missing all the WoW-clones? Or am I just one of the unlucky few that cannot foretell exactly what these upcoming games will play like without having an NDA hanging over my head?
I personally don't know if anything can be a clone of WOW, because in my eyes WOW is a clone of EQ.
With that said, since WOW's release, and huge success, a lot of companies are trying to make there games more 'like' WOW, to get in on some of that action, and I think SWG (cu anyone) and LOTRO are two good examples of this.
Anyway, back on topic -
I just want AC1 revamped with modern graphics and ui - all mod / third party support removed, housing removed, and a new FFA PVP server created, then I'll be set for another 4+ years.
Honestly, WoW isn't really... being "copied".
When WoW came about, the MMO market swung heavily towards doing the things it did - not copying it directly. But raiding emphasis shot up, death penalties became much less severe, and overall MMOs tended towards being "nicer" to their players, and more solo-friendly.
Even EverQuest 2, which at the start was rather nasty to solo players past a certain point, changed in this respect.
It's not really direct clones, I suppose, so much as a basic template that became especially popularized close to the release of World of Warcraft.
That said, there isn't really anything especially NEW in the MMO market, and this is because new stuff isn't really needed to be successful - you just have to follow that basic template and not be a totally horrible game. Put out an OK expansion now and then, and mostly, people'll be happy.
Does that make sense to you folks?
Most of the "carbon copy" games aren't WoW-Style so much as they're "generic asian games".
Tabula Rasa, Hellgate London, and so on and so forth, all introduced pretty new and nice things. But they still chiefly focus on a simple and old-ish formula as to how to do stuff.
I suppose what I'm saying is, moreso than being critical of "WoW Clones", do you think we're going to get anything more than HackNSlash or Shootemup Online, or will we perpetually be stuck in that rut? What would you like to see APART from Shootemup and Hacknslash online?
I am aware, however, that there are a few... oddball niche MMOs. Golf games, for example.
Well put, rcorvin. That post wasn't so much directed towards you as it was towards the posts you know are coming about WoW-clones whenever the genre is mentioned.
Personally, I would like to see an MMO with the level system done away with. Moreso, I would love to see a game done well where the focus is just killing each other. Not loot, not levels, not even skills.. Just killing each other. Give me a focus on castle sieges, while leaving out all the "Cast AoE through the wall ftw!" Give me a sci-fi MMO in which clans duked it out with high-tech weaponry, but none of them were so devastating that they couldn't be overcome by the right tactics/force. Even better, put in something like the redeemer in Unreal Tournament. One round, awesome firepower. But just make sure it's something that you can't possibly get more than one of in a month, no matter the farming.
I do agree there's tons of untapped potential in the market, the only problem is the fact that the genre isn't yet mature enough to take such risks and technology is just now getting to a point where an MMO like the ones I mentioned above are possible on the large scale that would make them great.
That said, the devs are trying. Don't expect this to be something that comes next year, though. Expect this kind of thing five or six years down the road.
Not to flame, but where in the OPs original message did he mention WoW. osc8r said that WoW is a clone of EQ. I think WoW is a clone of DAOC. Who is right? The OP makes some good points and I agree with some of them.Top of my message, before my list.
I also, incidentally, have a couple things I think are appropriate to add to that list:
* A good crafting system:
PLAYERS should be making the best equipment out there. NPC-based vendors should sell passable equipment, but it should never overshadow what the players can make.
As a matter of fact, I believe that crafting should have a unique twist to it: While the "basics" should be the same, the advanced crafting levels should get into personal inventions that are unique to the person making them. They MAKE their own recipe. They should all have their own unique benefits and drawbacks, within the realm of reason and possibility.
* Equipment-Optional:
Well, sort of, anyway. If you're going to be fighting you're probably going to want a weapon and at least some light armor - a guy in riot gear with an MP-5 should have a hefty advantage over a guy with a knife and reinforced clothes - but the character's own skills and statistics should MUCH more meaningful than the weapons and armor they're toting around.
* No Phat Lewtz:
Well, maybe not exactly "no", but the NPCs should generally not be dropping the best gear you can get - although it would be acceptable to be able to pick up a nice rifle or sword or knife from that guy you just killed, you shouldn't be picking up The One Ring To Rule Them All.
No, you have to get that from Sauron, the level 40 Jewelcrafter/Level 90 Enchanter.
I like the idea of open ended quests. That would be awesome. Another neat thing would be quests coming to you. Yes, sometimes it's inconvenient when the mob wants to pay back a "favor" you paid them while you're just trying to buy something at the auction hall, but that's part of what makes the immersion of a game.
As for GM events... it's simply uneconomical to do so. You might as well pay an additional guy to code quests so there's always new quests that all 200k (or 2 million, if you're WoW) of your players can do. Is what you would be better doing is making a system in which players interact with one another in this manner! Consider, say, a PC governer of a city that has noticed some people thugging up the merchant district and disrupting trade (and threatening his title). He might have 10 such events happening all at once, so he tasks some players to go take care of the problem.
I might hop back into Eve, and if I do, I plan on running a corporation that mines minerals and manufactures goods. I don't plan on doing any of the mining myself, but rather tasking that out to other players.
The really ruined what EQ 2 was.
You're right - to an extent.
A little-known fact concerning the EverQuest Events, however, is that they were not typically run by proper hired GMs. They were run by Volunteer Guides - players who decided to help out and signed up to be in-game customer support. One of the things they got to do as a result, was run "GM" events. These Volunteer Guides were not paid - the most they got/get is a free account.
The only thing that actually had dedicated GMs floating around was the EverQuest Legends server, which went belly-up. I like your idea, though - it puts more into player hands.
As for EverQuest 2... wellll... I am personally not an advocate of making even MMORPGs so group-centric that you either have to group, or not play. I like doing stuff on my own, and actually getting stuff done, y'know?
I don't agree with the OP that recent games are WOW clones. Other than the fact that they are called MMORPG's and to be called so, there has to be some similarities, otherwise they would be called something else like a FPS, or what ever.
The OP does have some good ideas however, I particularly like the skill system, I hate to bring up the bane of my and probably some others' existance, but SWG pre-cu had a fun skill system because you could change and mix and match. It had it's faults but could be adapted and improved for a new game. I really hate being stuck in a profession/class what ever.
The open ended quests was also a good idea I thought.
I can agree with several of those features.
- More skill based systems......YES! Every freakin MMO released doesn't have to be class/level based. It would be VERY nice if we had some options when it comes to skill based MMO's.
- Character customization. Any form of character customization is a good thing, IMO.
- Less emphasis on combat. I agree here as well. Combat should NOT be the sole focus of the game, I'd like to see much more depth than that.
I'm also a PnP vet, so any feature that comes close to replicating the table top feel will get my vote. So far, it seems like the closest you can get to this in MMO's is a sandbox style game where players have the tools to create content. I really hope this route gets more attention in the future...would be such a waste of potential.
The really ruined what EQ 2 was.
Really? When EQ2 was launched it lost a massive amount of subscribers, and would have faded into nothing had it not changed. Today it is a far better game then it ever was, and the raised subscription based proves it RoK sold more copies then was expected. The game was awful at launch. Virtually everyone who tried it near its launch agrees. Ask anyone. Bad class progression/ structure, shard/corpse retrieval which was not fun whatsoever, virtually all group-content, non-casual friendly basically an ancient EQ1 game with prettier graphics which most people were not interested in playing.