With AoC and WoW-clone WAR on the way? Nope, not at all dying. With 9-plus million people playing WoW? Never been better. The game is only just beginning. Just because there hasn't been a WoW-killer in the past 3 years doesn't mean the genre is dying.
There are a lot of people who would never play World of Warcraft. The game has become mainstream. People who would ordinarily not play an MMO play WoW because of how simple it is, and because of the societal pressures upon them. We must consider, however, that WoW lacks the RPG part of MMOs for the most part. Yes, WoW is an incredibly successful MMO, but only people who like simple, dumbed down fantasy games feel at home. The scifi MMO community has been alienated completely. People who like skill based progression based on xp are dry. While one part of the genre still exists, most of it has been dying. I would say that WoW, and the WoW clones are changing the genre, which, for people who don't like WoW, is the same as killing it.
As for AoC, i have talked to some of the beta testers I know in rl, and while they can't tell me much due to the NDA, they say that it is not ready to be released, and that they will likely not be in a competative state when the game is released.
given how expensive it is to put a game out these days I'm surprised that companies don't take old worlds that are modeled (and that had a reasonable engine) strip out the combat mechanics, quests and NPC's, and just add those things to the game. Certainly not a simple feat, but definitely cheaper than starting from scratch.
There are a lot of people who would never play World of Warcraft. The game has become mainstream. People who would ordinarily not play an MMO play WoW because of how simple it is, and because of the societal pressures upon them. We must consider, however, that WoW lacks the RPG part of MMOs for the most part. Yes, WoW is an incredibly successful MMO, but only people who like simple, dumbed down fantasy games feel at home. The scifi MMO community has been alienated completely. People who like skill based progression based on xp are dry. While one part of the genre still exists, most of it has been dying. I would say that WoW, and the WoW clones are changing the genre, which, for people who don't like WoW, is the same as killing it.
As for AoC, i have talked to some of the beta testers I know in rl, and while they can't tell me much due to the NDA, they say that it is not ready to be released, and that they will likely not be in a competative state when the game is released.
People play WoW because of how simple it is and because of societal pressures? Simple is not bad, simple is good. Simple means "easy to start" which means "well designed." I haven't heard a single person ever say anything about being pressures by society to play WoW, that is, until you said it. So....
WoW lacks the RPG part of it. Let me see.... Role playing game.. You play a role in a game... WoW is class based, and every class has a role to play in a group/raid settings, and each class is balanced/counterbalanced against each other in PvP... and PvP you are fighting against another faction because of past history/hatred etc. Sounds like "playing a role" to me.
"Only people who like simple, dumbed down fantasy games feel at home." LOL please, I've NEVER heard that one before, it's like you people follow a script!
The sci-Fi MMO community has two great games to play that are completely opposite one another. EVE and Tabula Rasa, both popular and highly rated. Or, they have SWG which is kind of a combo of both sandbox and linear style... not to mention a Stargate MMO in the works and also a Star Trek MMO (unless it gets put on the chopping block due to all this legal mumbo jumbo) and Jumpgate Evolution.
In fact, I'd say there is more variety in the Sci-Fi MMO market then in the fantasy MMO market.
The MMO era isn't dying, it's expanding exponentially. The current "top" Sci-Fi MMO just got a big expansion, the biggest Fantasy game (WoW) has an expansion on the way, EQ2 and FFXI just had expansion released, LOTRO was just released, Tabula Rasa was just released, WAR, AoC, and Spellborn are all on the horizon....
There is now more "choice" on the market then ever before. Choice is a good thing. Everyone has their own opinions and the more choice there is on the market, the better chance people will be able to find a game that suites their play style / preferences.
I agree is it just a waiting game. Vet players experienced something new and they were excited to see how great things WILL be but it takes time. Everyone wants something new now but there are many factors that bog down the process. I personally am still waiting on the next great thing from UO and EQ1, as I beileve it has barely changed since those games.
And finally, you can hate WoW, as it has dumbed down the average MMO into something we basically hate but we can thank WoW for making MMOs a big deal. It is only a matter of time until people find a way to merge the two.
FYI, there are social pressures to play games like WoW. All your friends are playing it and they get you to play it. Not saying this is good or bad, but there are social pressures to play games and you cannot discount that as untrue.
I feel there is a lot of crap out there, but it isn't dying. I think the numbers are bigger than they have ever been, but so is the amount of trash games.
I don't believe the era is dying. I do believe we are in a dry spell.
There has been a plethora of bad mmo's lately. On the upside, next year warhammer and age of conan come out. And is there not a kotor mmo in the works? I am having a hard time deciding which mmo I am looking foward to more, conan or warhammer.
Conan has neat graphics, a mature rating. Which is nice because the stories/quests don't have to be pg-13. Think of the potential, stealing, murder, mayhem, burning down a village, etc.
Warhammer, nice pvp setup, lots of magic classes, I can play as a Goblin (big plus for me)
True, there are many potentially good MMOs coming out in the next couple of years but does anyone else get a feeling that MMOs today are just plain crap? I dont know...Im getting that feeling. Anyone else feeling this way?
Actually, the MMO concept is stagnating, but since new players are constantly coming into the market, there will always be a market for MMOGs.
MMo have entered a mature state, they are games almost like any other. Just like racing, combat, RPG games, their graphics and complexity will slowly improve over time, but the core concept will remain the same.
It's just like the difference between Street fighter 2 and Street Fighter alpha 3. Or between virtua Fighter 1 and Tekken 5: It's the same thing, but vastly improved. However the interest is lost for people who played combat games 10 years ago.
Fact is, if you get bored of MMo, its not because they suck, its because you outgrew them, you are getting older, and videos games interest you less, because it's always more of the same with better graphics and slightly improving mechanics over time.
Don't worry for video games and MMOG in particular; while you grow older and move on to other things, younger people enter the video game market and replace you and your money.
My addiction History: >> EQ1 2000-2004 - Shaman/Bard/Wizard/Monk - nolife raid-whore >> WoW 2004-2009 + Cataclysm for 2 months - hardcore casual >> Current status : done with MMO, too old for that crap.
The only thing dying in this genre is the hardcore's death grip on the direction these games are going and I for one am very happy about that.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
I suppose it depends on what you mean by hardcore, look at swg and lord of the rings. I personally can't stand either of those games. They have been simplified to the point that a well trained monkey could do well. I recall when I was playing everquest the rush of breaching the plane of fear and gaining a foothold. It was very messy and bloody, but it was memorable.
There is something to be said for, time, effort and skill being needed for victory. However, as Aristotle once said, one should have "moderation in all things".
It feels like every devs on the planet bought the same "Creating an MMO for dummies" book and is following it carefully.
That's a brilliant analogy and exactly why tons of MMO's that came out either died off or more or less died off as a result of that kind of thinking they didn't think enough outside the box in a lot of cases where they probably should have Auto Assault and Tabula Rasa I feel are both prime examples of where the concepts were good, but they failed on delivery what people wanted a massively multiplayer fps and massively multiplayer auto game they both felt and played like EQ with a slightly different UI and character models attached and sucked as a result of it since that's not what people wanted at all.
SWG's problem wasn't that it was simplified, it's because it was turned into an arcade / console type game. LOTRO's problem isn't that it's casual friendly, it's due to an IP that is so narrow minded that it doesn't allow for the variety of game play that is expected in a modern MMO. You know, things like a large variety of classes and a large variety of skills for those classes. A large world with a lot of exploration factored in. Hell, just some freaking magic skills that are half way fun. Where is the invisibilty, water breathing, levitate, shape changing, teleports, summoning spells......etc that make a fantasy game so cool? They don't exist thanks to the friggin IP.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
The only thing dying in this genre is the hardcore's death grip on the direction these games are going and I for one am very happy about that.
Thats basically it. The ONLY people who have a problem with the genre are those people. They hate it because they used to matter. THEY were the playerbase. Not anymore. Now they're just bitter and complain how MMOs suck on forums, instead of actually playing them. How sad. I was there back in the begining with UO, but didn't care about playing a baker and text chatting all night with a 40 yr old guy who told me he was a bar wench. No thanks. I wanted to explore a cool world. Considering I was playing console RPGs like Panzer Dragoon Saga and FF7, UO looked and played like ^$%#&. It wasn't a game. It didn't really have CONTENT and I had to pay a fee to play?? Friends that I know who loved UO spent most of their time chatting rather than actually doing anything. But back then, RPing and chatting was considered content, because people were actually stupid enough to pay a monthly fee to do what they basically could in Windows Messnger. How sad. They chatted with a terrible looking 2d avatar that could only move in 4 directions and had 3 frames of animation. UO was such a boring game.
SWG's problem wasn't that it was simplified, it's because it was turned into an arcade / console type game. LOTRO's problem isn't that it's casual friendly, it's due to an IP that is so narrow minded that it doesn't allow for the variety of game play that is expected in a modern MMO. You know, things like a large variety of classes and a large variety of skills for those classes. A large world with a lot of exploration factored in. Hell, just some freaking magic skills that are half way fun. Where is the invisibilty, water breathing, levitate, shape changing, teleports, summoning spells......etc that make a fantasy game so cool? They don't exist thanks to the friggin IP.
Finally someone that isnt from WoW. Todays mmorpgs are friggin stupid. WoW did something HORRIBLE to the mmorpg market and that was to bring in all the 12 year old cs kiddies and like 5-9 milion of em!!! Since then the market has had a totally new aprouch. Nothing new nor experimental since as stated earlier a well trained monkey is able to play em well. Doubt they even have to be trained! I feel that the last few years of my mmorpg watching has been a disaster! eq1, daoc, ao, shadowbane, and Ragnarok Online for me ^^. My god was that awesome adventures we all look back at with a twinkle in our eyes. Too bad were probably NEVER gonna experience it again... Im hoping for Aion to be the new L2 becose i need some good hardcore pvp!
That's ridiculous. Blame WoW for popularizing the genre? If anything, it's given it the popularity it needs for the truly great games to be created. Before WoW and EQ previously, people didn't respect the genre as mainstream.
If a world of WoW clones and simplified gaming mechanics is the cost of becoming 'mainstream,' I'm more than happy to take my games and crawl back under my rock where content and challenge were welcome.
Edit: And by content, I don't mean a raid that takes 4 days to complete, and by challenge I don't mean for a 0.7% chance at a drop when those 4 days are over just to try again.
As far as I see it MMO era isn't gone. With more people finally noticing the genre although we will see many WoW clones from companies that will want to capitalize on that, there will be a few that will probably redefine the genre.
It's like the single player games, for every one that is really innovative there are 100 others that just copy it. But the more people play them the greater the chance a truly good and unique one will be created.
MMO's are no different in that aspect but they do need longer time for one to be innovative since there are many more variables to be considered than their single player counter parts.
A friend is not him who provides support during your failures.A friend is the one that cheers you during your successes.
If a world of WoW clones and simplified gaming mechanics is the cost of becoming 'mainstream,' I'm more than happy to take my games and crawl back under my rock where content and challenge were welcome.
That's an ignorant and simplified statement. WoW has shown developers that if their game is good enough, they can get millions of people to pay monthly for their games.
You can't have it both ways: Either players are stupid enough to play WoW in masses despite the game "being so awful," or WoW appeals to so many people its population has exploded. Most crappy games don't have big populations--lending credibility to the second possibility.
Now, developers seeing that games like WoW/EQ/etc can be so successful, are much more likely to invest in creating a game in the genre -you- will like, and they can make profit off of.
Blizzard has done the genre an immense Good in that way.
SWG's problem wasn't that it was simplified, it's because it was turned into an arcade / console type game. LOTRO's problem isn't that it's casual friendly, it's due to an IP that is so narrow minded that it doesn't allow for the variety of game play that is expected in a modern MMO. You know, things like a large variety of classes and a large variety of skills for those classes. A large world with a lot of exploration factored in. Hell, just some freaking magic skills that are half way fun. Where is the invisibilty, water breathing, levitate, shape changing, teleports, summoning spells......etc that make a fantasy game so cool? They don't exist thanks to the friggin IP.
Finally someone that isnt from WoW. Todays mmorpgs are friggin stupid. WoW did something HORRIBLE to the mmorpg market and that was to bring in all the 12 year old cs kiddies and like 5-9 milion of em!!! Since then the market has had a totally new aprouch. Nothing new nor experimental since as stated earlier a well trained monkey is able to play em well. Doubt they even have to be trained! I feel that the last few years of my mmorpg watching has been a disaster! eq1, daoc, ao, shadowbane, and Ragnarok Online for me ^^. My god was that awesome adventures we all look back at with a twinkle in our eyes. Too bad were probably NEVER gonna experience it again... Im hoping for Aion to be the new L2 becose i need some good hardcore pvp!
This is exactly what I have been saying the whole time! The CS fuckshits graduated to WoW, and now, because of their numbers, devs are afraid to try anything different. They need to take risks, and bury the level system under the ground. and bake me some cookies as an apology, you know, those sugar cookies with the colorful but translucent sprinkles? Those are good.
SWG's problem wasn't that it was simplified, it's because it was turned into an arcade / console type game. LOTRO's problem isn't that it's casual friendly, it's due to an IP that is so narrow minded that it doesn't allow for the variety of game play that is expected in a modern MMO. You know, things like a large variety of classes and a large variety of skills for those classes. A large world with a lot of exploration factored in. Hell, just some freaking magic skills that are half way fun. Where is the invisibilty, water breathing, levitate, shape changing, teleports, summoning spells......etc that make a fantasy game so cool? They don't exist thanks to the friggin IP.
Finally someone that isnt from WoW. Todays mmorpgs are friggin stupid. WoW did something HORRIBLE to the mmorpg market and that was to bring in all the 12 year old cs kiddies and like 5-9 milion of em!!! Since then the market has had a totally new aprouch. Nothing new nor experimental since as stated earlier a well trained monkey is able to play em well. Doubt they even have to be trained! I feel that the last few years of my mmorpg watching has been a disaster! eq1, daoc, ao, shadowbane, and Ragnarok Online for me ^^. My god was that awesome adventures we all look back at with a twinkle in our eyes. Too bad were probably NEVER gonna experience it again... Im hoping for Aion to be the new L2 becose i need some good hardcore pvp!
This is exactly what I have been saying the whole time! The CS fuckshits graduated to WoW, and now, because of their numbers, devs are afraid to try anything different. They need to take risks, and bury the level system under the ground. and bake me some cookies as an apology, you know, those sugar cookies with the colorful but translucent sprinkles? Those are good.
Not true at all. CS and WoW have -completely- different playerbases--and quite frankly, there were never as many CS players as their are WoW players, so they can't possibly be responsible for WoW's insane population.
The sad thing is that it's popular to bash the most prominent game--or most popular anything. It's the same as people who bash the US for no reason (there are genuine reasons to, but the people that do generally don't use them.)
Before WoW, it was in vogue to bash EverQuest. After the "next WoW," it'll be something else.
And no, developers aren't afraid to try something different "because" of WoW. WoW did not create developer hesitation to try something new--that's been around for as LONG as there have been video games. People are simply trying to recreate the WoW formula, which recreated the EverQuest formula, and so on. But none of them have been as popular. Why? Because they're not putting any real thought into it, which is definitely not what Blizzard did.
If a world of WoW clones and simplified gaming mechanics is the cost of becoming 'mainstream,' I'm more than happy to take my games and crawl back under my rock where content and challenge were welcome.
That's an ignorant and simplified statement. WoW has shown developers that if their game is good enough, they can get millions of people to pay monthly for their games.
You can't have it both ways: Either players are stupid enough to play WoW in masses despite the game "being so awful," or WoW appeals to so many people its population has exploded. Most crappy games don't have big populations--lending credibility to the second possibility.
Now, developers seeing that games like WoW/EQ/etc can be so successful, are much more likely to invest in creating a game in the genre -you- will like, and they can make profit off of.
Blizzard has done the genre an immense Good in that way.
Ok i might have been alittle harsh on the wow pop thing but for people like me that like the old time mmorpgs and muds, WoW murdered the mmorpg market! Not just becose of WoW itself but how it changed the western mmorpg market. I Honestly havent played a really good mmorpg for years and yet ive tried most of em!
Blizzard has Demolished the thing some of us loved.. And i doubt were ever getting it back. And thats a challange and depth.
And theres a reason why ALOT of people use WoW as the grand example of what the mmorpg market has become. Im hoping for NCSoft to flip the burger or atleast give us something good to chew on.
I'm so sick of all this B.S. from the extreme hard-right side of MMO gamers.. the so called "hardcore."
They were around in the early days of the MMORPG. When games were a lot more tough and unforgiving.
They are now the very loud and very vocal minority. They feel as if they are right and all the new MMORPG players are wrong or stupid or weak etc. etc.etc. They feel that they are special because they've been banging through MMOs for a long time. You are not special. You are the minority.
Truth is, the genre has changed. Some of us old school MMO vets like me have changed with it and learned to enjoy the more casual aspects of our favorite MMOs.
You "hardcore" seem to cling to the bygone days of old, somehow expecting that they'll come back. They won't. It's plain and simple. You have ONE game in development that promises to be an "old school" experience, and most would consider that game to be vaporware with no real chance of release.
Besides that, there is one game out there that is still "hardcore" and follows the old school set of rules, EVE, and I know a lot of you enjoy it. Great, awesome, I'm happy for you.
Now shut the f*#$ up.
I know there are a lot of newer MMO players that defend their modern-generation games with just as much zealotry and bias as you "old school" vets who do nothing but spit the same trash as the three posters before you did. (McDonalds, Brittney Spears, Chinese Gold farmers anyone?)
Seriously. Get over it. Play EVE, hope for Darkfall, or move on. All this WoW bashing and "carebear" crap and "linear sucks this" and "linear sucks that" bull sh!t is annoying, childish, and just plan stupid.
If you really are so "mature" and want games with more "challenge" that take more "intelligence" then you should learn to post with intelligence, maturity... or is that too challenging?
The younger generation MMO players are just as guilty of immaturity and stupidity as they exhaustively defend their MMO of choice from the "hardcore" zealots.
I know it won't end, I know ya'll don't care. You enjoy bickering back and forth about this that and the other thing, pretending as you type behind your anonymous screen name that you are more wise and intelligent then the poster before you, as if your opinion carries more weight.
This thread is ridiculous. I petition for it to be closed. It has run its course and is no longer useful or productive (if it ever was.)
The FACT is, there are more people playing MMOs today then there ever was before. Does this mean the MMO era is dying? No, no it does not.
I can't dismiss that Blizzard has opened the door to millions of new MMOers, and I have no qualms with WoW as it stands, but to say that it has shown some new light to developers is simply crazy. There is absolutely nothing innovative about WoW. All that they have shown is that by simplifying a game to a point that can appeal to a mass audiance, you end up with a mass audiance.
Comments
With AoC and WoW-clone WAR on the way? Nope, not at all dying.
With 9-plus million people playing WoW? Never been better.
The game is only just beginning. Just because there hasn't been a WoW-killer in the past 3 years doesn't mean the genre is dying.
As for AoC, i have talked to some of the beta testers I know in rl, and while they can't tell me much due to the NDA, they say that it is not ready to be released, and that they will likely not be in a competative state when the game is released.
given how expensive it is to put a game out these days I'm surprised that companies don't take old worlds that are modeled (and that had a reasonable engine) strip out the combat mechanics, quests and NPC's, and just add those things to the game. Certainly not a simple feat, but definitely cheaper than starting from scratch.
WoW lacks the RPG part of it. Let me see.... Role playing game.. You play a role in a game... WoW is class based, and every class has a role to play in a group/raid settings, and each class is balanced/counterbalanced against each other in PvP... and PvP you are fighting against another faction because of past history/hatred etc. Sounds like "playing a role" to me.
"Only people who like simple, dumbed down fantasy games feel at home." LOL please, I've NEVER heard that one before, it's like you people follow a script!
The sci-Fi MMO community has two great games to play that are completely opposite one another. EVE and Tabula Rasa, both popular and highly rated. Or, they have SWG which is kind of a combo of both sandbox and linear style... not to mention a Stargate MMO in the works and also a Star Trek MMO (unless it gets put on the chopping block due to all this legal mumbo jumbo) and Jumpgate Evolution.
In fact, I'd say there is more variety in the Sci-Fi MMO market then in the fantasy MMO market.
The MMO era isn't dying, it's expanding exponentially. The current "top" Sci-Fi MMO just got a big expansion, the biggest Fantasy game (WoW) has an expansion on the way, EQ2 and FFXI just had expansion released, LOTRO was just released, Tabula Rasa was just released, WAR, AoC, and Spellborn are all on the horizon....
There is now more "choice" on the market then ever before. Choice is a good thing. Everyone has their own opinions and the more choice there is on the market, the better chance people will be able to find a game that suites their play style / preferences.
Jesus christ, I get the feeling that developers are complete and utter noobs (in fact, I'm pretty sure they are).
UO! DAoC! PreCU SWG! Don't leave us! NOOOOOoooooooo.......!
I agree is it just a waiting game. Vet players experienced something new and they were excited to see how great things WILL be but it takes time. Everyone wants something new now but there are many factors that bog down the process. I personally am still waiting on the next great thing from UO and EQ1, as I beileve it has barely changed since those games.
And finally, you can hate WoW, as it has dumbed down the average MMO into something we basically hate but we can thank WoW for making MMOs a big deal. It is only a matter of time until people find a way to merge the two.
FYI, there are social pressures to play games like WoW. All your friends are playing it and they get you to play it. Not saying this is good or bad, but there are social pressures to play games and you cannot discount that as untrue.
I concur.
Nope, i think nowadays people get more and more into MMO's.
~Alex007152~
I don't believe the era is dying. I do believe we are in a dry spell.
There has been a plethora of bad mmo's lately. On the upside, next year warhammer and age of conan come out. And is there not a kotor mmo in the works? I am having a hard time deciding which mmo I am looking foward to more, conan or warhammer.
Conan has neat graphics, a mature rating. Which is nice because the stories/quests don't have to be pg-13. Think of the potential, stealing, murder, mayhem, burning down a village, etc.
Warhammer, nice pvp setup, lots of magic classes, I can play as a Goblin (big plus for me)
Actually, the MMO concept is stagnating, but since new players are constantly coming into the market, there will always be a market for MMOGs.
MMo have entered a mature state, they are games almost like any other. Just like racing, combat, RPG games, their graphics and complexity will slowly improve over time, but the core concept will remain the same.
It's just like the difference between Street fighter 2 and Street Fighter alpha 3. Or between virtua Fighter 1 and Tekken 5: It's the same thing, but vastly improved. However the interest is lost for people who played combat games 10 years ago.
Fact is, if you get bored of MMo, its not because they suck, its because you outgrew them, you are getting older, and videos games interest you less, because it's always more of the same with better graphics and slightly improving mechanics over time.
Don't worry for video games and MMOG in particular; while you grow older and move on to other things, younger people enter the video game market and replace you and your money.
My addiction History:
>> EQ1 2000-2004 - Shaman/Bard/Wizard/Monk - nolife raid-whore
>> WoW 2004-2009 + Cataclysm for 2 months - hardcore casual
>> Current status : done with MMO, too old for that crap.
The only thing dying in this genre is the hardcore's death grip on the direction these games are going and I for one am very happy about that.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
I suppose it depends on what you mean by hardcore, look at swg and lord of the rings. I personally can't stand either of those games. They have been simplified to the point that a well trained monkey could do well. I recall when I was playing everquest the rush of breaching the plane of fear and gaining a foothold. It was very messy and bloody, but it was memorable.
There is something to be said for, time, effort and skill being needed for victory. However, as Aristotle once said, one should have "moderation in all things".
That's a brilliant analogy and exactly why tons of MMO's that came out either died off or more or less died off as a result of that kind of thinking they didn't think enough outside the box in a lot of cases where they probably should have Auto Assault and Tabula Rasa I feel are both prime examples of where the concepts were good, but they failed on delivery what people wanted a massively multiplayer fps and massively multiplayer auto game they both felt and played like EQ with a slightly different UI and character models attached and sucked as a result of it since that's not what people wanted at all.
SWG's problem wasn't that it was simplified, it's because it was turned into an arcade / console type game. LOTRO's problem isn't that it's casual friendly, it's due to an IP that is so narrow minded that it doesn't allow for the variety of game play that is expected in a modern MMO. You know, things like a large variety of classes and a large variety of skills for those classes. A large world with a lot of exploration factored in. Hell, just some freaking magic skills that are half way fun. Where is the invisibilty, water breathing, levitate, shape changing, teleports, summoning spells......etc that make a fantasy game so cool? They don't exist thanks to the friggin IP.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
Finally someone that isnt from WoW. Todays mmorpgs are friggin stupid. WoW did something HORRIBLE to the mmorpg market and that was to bring in all the 12 year old cs kiddies and like 5-9 milion of em!!! Since then the market has had a totally new aprouch. Nothing new nor experimental since as stated earlier a well trained monkey is able to play em well. Doubt they even have to be trained! I feel that the last few years of my mmorpg watching has been a disaster! eq1, daoc, ao, shadowbane, and Ragnarok Online for me ^^. My god was that awesome adventures we all look back at with a twinkle in our eyes. Too bad were probably NEVER gonna experience it again... Im hoping for Aion to be the new L2 becose i need some good hardcore pvp!
That's ridiculous. Blame WoW for popularizing the genre? If anything, it's given it the popularity it needs for the truly great games to be created. Before WoW and EQ previously, people didn't respect the genre as mainstream.
If a world of WoW clones and simplified gaming mechanics is the cost of becoming 'mainstream,' I'm more than happy to take my games and crawl back under my rock where content and challenge were welcome.
Edit: And by content, I don't mean a raid that takes 4 days to complete, and by challenge I don't mean for a 0.7% chance at a drop when those 4 days are over just to try again.
As far as I see it MMO era isn't gone. With more people finally noticing the genre although we will see many WoW clones from companies that will want to capitalize on that, there will be a few that will probably redefine the genre.
It's like the single player games, for every one that is really innovative there are 100 others that just copy it. But the more people play them the greater the chance a truly good and unique one will be created.
MMO's are no different in that aspect but they do need longer time for one to be innovative since there are many more variables to be considered than their single player counter parts.
A friend is not him who provides support during your failures.A friend is the one that cheers you during your successes.
That's an ignorant and simplified statement. WoW has shown developers that if their game is good enough, they can get millions of people to pay monthly for their games.
You can't have it both ways: Either players are stupid enough to play WoW in masses despite the game "being so awful," or WoW appeals to so many people its population has exploded. Most crappy games don't have big populations--lending credibility to the second possibility.
Now, developers seeing that games like WoW/EQ/etc can be so successful, are much more likely to invest in creating a game in the genre -you- will like, and they can make profit off of.
Blizzard has done the genre an immense Good in that way.
Finally someone that isnt from WoW. Todays mmorpgs are friggin stupid. WoW did something HORRIBLE to the mmorpg market and that was to bring in all the 12 year old cs kiddies and like 5-9 milion of em!!! Since then the market has had a totally new aprouch. Nothing new nor experimental since as stated earlier a well trained monkey is able to play em well. Doubt they even have to be trained! I feel that the last few years of my mmorpg watching has been a disaster! eq1, daoc, ao, shadowbane, and Ragnarok Online for me ^^. My god was that awesome adventures we all look back at with a twinkle in our eyes. Too bad were probably NEVER gonna experience it again... Im hoping for Aion to be the new L2 becose i need some good hardcore pvp!
This is exactly what I have been saying the whole time! The CS fuckshits graduated to WoW, and now, because of their numbers, devs are afraid to try anything different. They need to take risks, and bury the level system under the ground. and bake me some cookies as an apology, you know, those sugar cookies with the colorful but translucent sprinkles? Those are good.
Finally someone that isnt from WoW. Todays mmorpgs are friggin stupid. WoW did something HORRIBLE to the mmorpg market and that was to bring in all the 12 year old cs kiddies and like 5-9 milion of em!!! Since then the market has had a totally new aprouch. Nothing new nor experimental since as stated earlier a well trained monkey is able to play em well. Doubt they even have to be trained! I feel that the last few years of my mmorpg watching has been a disaster! eq1, daoc, ao, shadowbane, and Ragnarok Online for me ^^. My god was that awesome adventures we all look back at with a twinkle in our eyes. Too bad were probably NEVER gonna experience it again...
Im hoping for Aion to be the new L2 becose i need some good hardcore pvp!
This is exactly what I have been saying the whole time! The CS fuckshits graduated to WoW, and now, because of their numbers, devs are afraid to try anything different. They need to take risks, and bury the level system under the ground. and bake me some cookies as an apology, you know, those sugar cookies with the colorful but translucent sprinkles? Those are good.
Not true at all. CS and WoW have -completely- different playerbases--and quite frankly, there were never as many CS players as their are WoW players, so they can't possibly be responsible for WoW's insane population.
The sad thing is that it's popular to bash the most prominent game--or most popular anything. It's the same as people who bash the US for no reason (there are genuine reasons to, but the people that do generally don't use them.)
Before WoW, it was in vogue to bash EverQuest. After the "next WoW," it'll be something else.
And no, developers aren't afraid to try something different "because" of WoW. WoW did not create developer hesitation to try something new--that's been around for as LONG as there have been video games. People are simply trying to recreate the WoW formula, which recreated the EverQuest formula, and so on. But none of them have been as popular. Why? Because they're not putting any real thought into it, which is definitely not what Blizzard did.
That's an ignorant and simplified statement. WoW has shown developers that if their game is good enough, they can get millions of people to pay monthly for their games.
You can't have it both ways: Either players are stupid enough to play WoW in masses despite the game "being so awful," or WoW appeals to so many people its population has exploded. Most crappy games don't have big populations--lending credibility to the second possibility.
Now, developers seeing that games like WoW/EQ/etc can be so successful, are much more likely to invest in creating a game in the genre -you- will like, and they can make profit off of.
Blizzard has done the genre an immense Good in that way.
Ok i might have been alittle harsh on the wow pop thing but for people like me that like the old time mmorpgs and muds, WoW murdered the mmorpg market! Not just becose of WoW itself but how it changed the western mmorpg market. I Honestly havent played a really good mmorpg for years and yet ive tried most of em!
Blizzard has Demolished the thing some of us loved.. And i doubt were ever getting it back. And thats a challange and depth.
And theres a reason why ALOT of people use WoW as the grand example of what the mmorpg market has become. Im hoping for NCSoft to flip the burger or atleast give us something good to chew on.
I'm so sick of all this B.S. from the extreme hard-right side of MMO gamers.. the so called "hardcore."
They were around in the early days of the MMORPG. When games were a lot more tough and unforgiving.
They are now the very loud and very vocal minority. They feel as if they are right and all the new MMORPG players are wrong or stupid or weak etc. etc.etc. They feel that they are special because they've been banging through MMOs for a long time. You are not special. You are the minority.
Truth is, the genre has changed. Some of us old school MMO vets like me have changed with it and learned to enjoy the more casual aspects of our favorite MMOs.
You "hardcore" seem to cling to the bygone days of old, somehow expecting that they'll come back. They won't. It's plain and simple. You have ONE game in development that promises to be an "old school" experience, and most would consider that game to be vaporware with no real chance of release.
Besides that, there is one game out there that is still "hardcore" and follows the old school set of rules, EVE, and I know a lot of you enjoy it. Great, awesome, I'm happy for you.
Now shut the f*#$ up.
I know there are a lot of newer MMO players that defend their modern-generation games with just as much zealotry and bias as you "old school" vets who do nothing but spit the same trash as the three posters before you did. (McDonalds, Brittney Spears, Chinese Gold farmers anyone?)
Seriously. Get over it. Play EVE, hope for Darkfall, or move on. All this WoW bashing and "carebear" crap and "linear sucks this" and "linear sucks that" bull sh!t is annoying, childish, and just plan stupid.
If you really are so "mature" and want games with more "challenge" that take more "intelligence" then you should learn to post with intelligence, maturity... or is that too challenging?
The younger generation MMO players are just as guilty of immaturity and stupidity as they exhaustively defend their MMO of choice from the "hardcore" zealots.
I know it won't end, I know ya'll don't care. You enjoy bickering back and forth about this that and the other thing, pretending as you type behind your anonymous screen name that you are more wise and intelligent then the poster before you, as if your opinion carries more weight.
This thread is ridiculous. I petition for it to be closed. It has run its course and is no longer useful or productive (if it ever was.)
The FACT is, there are more people playing MMOs today then there ever was before. Does this mean the MMO era is dying? No, no it does not.
I can't dismiss that Blizzard has opened the door to millions of new MMOers, and I have no qualms with WoW as it stands, but to say that it has shown some new light to developers is simply crazy. There is absolutely nothing innovative about WoW. All that they have shown is that by simplifying a game to a point that can appeal to a mass audiance, you end up with a mass audiance.