Actually, I think most people complaining here are not outraged. I'm just making observations and making opinions based on what's been presented. No one believes they are entitled to anything.
I think your comments made you feel like you made some extraordinary insight on the thread. But the truth is, most if not all of us are bored and since there's a topic of interest to discuss, we add our opinions. Nothing more. We can discuss the faults of Simu without having to think more into the conversation. What I find amazing about a large percentage of gamers is that illusionary concept that they have these great insights and clever thoughts (let's see if you can find the irony in that).
I'm not sure you've read this thread thoroughly, but there are many emotions evident in the complainers' posts, and boredom doesn't seem like one of them, you being the possible exception.
I'm inclined to believe you if for no other reason than your steady presence at Hero's Hall. And yes, I understand you're under an NDA, but perhaps you can give us some insight on the core issue. Why did they completely stop releasing new HJ information? Concept art, screenshots, gameplay teasers. Hell, I'll even take a dev diary. I understand it must be frustrating for you to have these frequent concerns pop up. But from the outside looking in, we don't have anything to go on other than the occasional volunteer saying that everything is fine. If you take into account the regular hype and vapor of the MMO industry, it doesn't feel like HJ is happening anytime soon. Cynical, I know. I'm just tired of waiting
I believe (and I may be mistaken, PR's not my thing) that most of the public info was previously coordinated by Melissa (a former producer). When she left, information dropped off fairly rapidly. She was also the person who originally interviewed me and stuck me on the GM dev team. I'm not sure why the PR blitzing wasn't taken up by someone else after her departure, but I know in the last year alone there have been substantial improvements to the game itself. It's definitely not dead, just very quiet.
HJ-Xadrian Hero's Journey GameMaster - Fighting for the rights of badgers everywhere. www.play.net/hj/
Simu hasn't been honest with their customers! Of course, they have no Hero's Journey customers, since the game hasn't been released and nobody has, in fact, paid a dime for it. People are just impatient and silly.
Well said. Lol
What I find amazing about a large percentage of gamers is that illusionary concept they have on what there entitled to.
Bottom line, were not entitled to anything, and no matter how much you whine, cry, flame, etc you still have nothing.
So ask yourself, did I spend my time wisely? Once its gone you never get it back.
Actually, I think most people complaining here are not outraged. I'm just making observations and making opinions based on what's been presented. No one believes they are entitled to anything.
I think your comments made you feel like you made some extraordinary insight on the thread. But the truth is, most if not all of us are bored and since there's a topic of interest to discuss, we add our opinions. Nothing more. We can discuss the faults of Simu without having to think more into the conversation.
What I find amazing about a large percentage of gamers is that illusionary concept that they have these great insights and clever thoughts (let's see if you can find the irony in that).
Well to be fair there have been numerous MMOs that went under but the devs repeatedly said the game is doing well and development is going well. Gods & Heroes is one example. Heck, even Sigil said Vanguard is doing fine when it launched.
Why would officials lie or twist the truth? Because they don't want to ruin the game if it has a chance to launch. I suppose every game has a "chance." But let's face it, in reality either a game is being financed and worked on at full speed or it is dying. As for volunteers, you think they don't have a vested interest in the game? If the game launches and their work stands out, they have an opportunity to get into the gaming industry. They wouldn't sabotage the very door they are trying to enter and will say whatever they are told to say or not say. But the facts are, HJ has been in development way too long. It's worked on by volunteers which is a terrible way to build your product. And Simu has a track record of taking forever (sometimes never) in development of their other games. I suppose I still have hope HJ will launch but it's a very small hope at this time. And yeah, I'm still hoping on Duke Nukem Forever...
Unpaid volunteers don't work forever. There have been volunteers that have moved on after working on HJ. If the game was dying, don't you think that you would've heard something about it? Doesn't the fact that there has been absolutely nothing like that leaked mean anything? A volunteer can use their time at HJ on a resume, whether or not the game is released.
Originally posted by Kenorv
I think that Simu got in over their heads with HJ and aren't willing to admit that they got in over their heads. Silence is better than admitting mistakes I guess. Why else would they suddenly go quiet when they halted work on the game and focused all of their resources on the game engine so they could license it? If they had been honest with us about that instead of keeping us in the dark then it probably would have made them look like they weren't prepared for this project. So they just told us nothing for several months and hoped that we wouldn't lose interest in the game. Personally that's not the way I think a company should do business. I think they should be honest with their potential customers about any delays, hiccups etc. I'd have much more respect for a company that it honest with it's customers than one that hides things from them. It's obvious that having your entire staff work on the game or the engine or whatever it is they're working on at the moment, isn't going to get the game finished and launched any time soon so why not take one person off the project just one day per month and have that person work on updating the website, so at the very least, what little info you do post there is accurate. There's no reason for that F.A.Q. to be out dated. Stuff like that makes a company look unprofessional and gives a bad impression to potential customers. If you think that all you need to do is make a good game to attract and keep customers then you're dead wrong. Customer service and public relations are just as important and those things start long before the game launches. If you neglect those aspects of business(and Simu certainly has) then you're setting yourself up for failure. Again, I think that Simu got in over their heads with a lack of financing at the start and even now a lack of full time, on site staff. If you only have enough people to focus on one thing then you're not going to be successful. But keeping quiet about your problems and hoping that customers will forget about them is even worse. It may be a cliche but honesty really is the best policy and Simu hasn't been honest with their customers.
HJ has a full-time on-site staff. It's not a big company with a big PR firm, but who cares? Yes, the faq is outdated. Does that mean anything? Well, according to you it does, but to me it just means that they have a smaller team than most giant budgeted companies, and are prioritizing.
You go from saying that you think Simu got in over their heads (with no evidence aside from a lack of PR), and then you end with, "But keeping quiet about your problems and hoping that customers will forget about them is even worse. It may be a cliche but honesty really is the best policy and Simu hasn't been honest with their customers." Woah, there. Where did that come from? What are these problems, and when has Simu ever been dishonest with its customers (regarding HJ)? Are you referring to tentative release dates? Is missing one, lying? I'm confused how you came to this conclusion.
I never said they lied about anything or were dishonest. I said they've kept quiet about too much. You do remember that they just went silent all of a sudden when they put the game on hold to work on the engine and didn't tell anyone about that for several months nor did they release any info period about anything. That's what I mean when I say then need to be honest about things. Don't go in the dark for 6 months, or whatever is was, and then another 4 months and counting with the exception of one little post on their site about developer openings. Doing that just makes people think that things are at best on hold and at worst cancelled. You can't tell me that if this was another company in another industry that was doing this that you wouldn't think that it was unprofessional. Looking unprofessional is one of the problems that I'm referring to.
You may disagree but public relations is important. I don't have the link but MMORPG.com did an interview with some people from Blizzard and one of their keys to success was the emphasis on PR. If you can't even keep a website up to date and accurate then what impression do you think that gives to potential customers? PR is a company's first impression not the game itself. If you wait until the game launches to try and make your first impression then you're probably not going to be successful. People will have already formed their opinions and whether or not you believe that is fair it's still the reality of the situation. So if you're not giving a good impression of your company before your product is ready to launch and just hope that your potential customers wait until it does before they form an opinion then you're going to lose out on a lot of business whether you're talking about an MMO or any other product.
Simu is a small company and doesn't have the name recognition to fall back on like other company's in the industry do. They can't give people the silent treatment and then expect them to be drooling with anticipation until the game launches. If things worked that way then every product and project would be kept secret until it launched.
Simu needs to be setting HJ apart from every other MMO out there. Right now they're just making themselves look like a company that's in over it's head. If all of their resources are allocated to working on the game then they don't have enough resources. It's not enough to just envision making a great game. You have to be fully prepared in order to make a great game and when you barely have enough staff to work on the game and nothing else that goes along with it then you're not prepared. That's another problem that I'm referring to. They still don't seem to have the proper staff for this project and at the very least they didn't have the proper funding at the start of the project. It's unknown if they do now even after working out licensing deals for the engines with several companies. But again, lack of financing was at the very least a problem at one point and they compounded that problem by going dark for an extended period of time.
Now I certainly don't think that finances is something that needs to be public knowledge but again, if they ever have to do what they did earlier, which was put the game on hold to work on the engine to aquire more financing, then they need to let people know that instead of going in the dark.
Well to be fair there have been numerous MMOs that went under but the devs repeatedly said the game is doing well and development is going well. Gods & Heroes is one example. Heck, even Sigil said Vanguard is doing fine when it launched.
Why would officials lie or twist the truth? Because they don't want to ruin the game if it has a chance to launch. I suppose every game has a "chance." But let's face it, in reality either a game is being financed and worked on at full speed or it is dying. As for volunteers, you think they don't have a vested interest in the game? If the game launches and their work stands out, they have an opportunity to get into the gaming industry. They wouldn't sabotage the very door they are trying to enter and will say whatever they are told to say or not say. But the facts are, HJ has been in development way too long. It's worked on by volunteers which is a terrible way to build your product. And Simu has a track record of taking forever (sometimes never) in development of their other games. I suppose I still have hope HJ will launch but it's a very small hope at this time. And yeah, I'm still hoping on Duke Nukem Forever...
Unpaid volunteers don't work forever. There have been volunteers that have moved on after working on HJ. If the game was dying, don't you think that you would've heard something about it? Doesn't the fact that there has been absolutely nothing like that leaked mean anything? A volunteer can use their time at HJ on a resume, whether or not the game is released.
Originally posted by Kenorv
I think that Simu got in over their heads with HJ and aren't willing to admit that they got in over their heads. Silence is better than admitting mistakes I guess. Why else would they suddenly go quiet when they halted work on the game and focused all of their resources on the game engine so they could license it? If they had been honest with us about that instead of keeping us in the dark then it probably would have made them look like they weren't prepared for this project. So they just told us nothing for several months and hoped that we wouldn't lose interest in the game. Personally that's not the way I think a company should do business. I think they should be honest with their potential customers about any delays, hiccups etc. I'd have much more respect for a company that it honest with it's customers than one that hides things from them. It's obvious that having your entire staff work on the game or the engine or whatever it is they're working on at the moment, isn't going to get the game finished and launched any time soon so why not take one person off the project just one day per month and have that person work on updating the website, so at the very least, what little info you do post there is accurate. There's no reason for that F.A.Q. to be out dated. Stuff like that makes a company look unprofessional and gives a bad impression to potential customers. If you think that all you need to do is make a good game to attract and keep customers then you're dead wrong. Customer service and public relations are just as important and those things start long before the game launches. If you neglect those aspects of business(and Simu certainly has) then you're setting yourself up for failure. Again, I think that Simu got in over their heads with a lack of financing at the start and even now a lack of full time, on site staff. If you only have enough people to focus on one thing then you're not going to be successful. But keeping quiet about your problems and hoping that customers will forget about them is even worse. It may be a cliche but honesty really is the best policy and Simu hasn't been honest with their customers.
HJ has a full-time on-site staff. It's not a big company with a big PR firm, but who cares? Yes, the faq is outdated. Does that mean anything? Well, according to you it does, but to me it just means that they have a smaller team than most giant budgeted companies, and are prioritizing.
You go from saying that you think Simu got in over their heads (with no evidence aside from a lack of PR), and then you end with, "But keeping quiet about your problems and hoping that customers will forget about them is even worse. It may be a cliche but honesty really is the best policy and Simu hasn't been honest with their customers." Woah, there. Where did that come from? What are these problems, and when has Simu ever been dishonest with its customers (regarding HJ)? Are you referring to tentative release dates? Is missing one, lying? I'm confused how you came to this conclusion.
I love the ironic outrage.
Simu hasn't been honest with their customers!
Of course, they have no Hero's Journey customers, since the game hasn't been released and nobody has, in fact, paid a dime for it.
People are just impatient and silly.
Go look up the definition of potential. I clearly said potential customers.
I'd have much more respect for a company that it honest with it's customers than one that hides things from them. Stuff like that makes a company look unprofessional and gives a bad impression to potential customers. It may be a cliche but honesty really is the best policy and Simu hasn't been honest with their customers.
Go look up the definition of potential. I clearly said potential customers.
Well to be fair there have been numerous MMOs that went under but the devs repeatedly said the game is doing well and development is going well. Gods & Heroes is one example. Heck, even Sigil said Vanguard is doing fine when it launched.
Why would officials lie or twist the truth? Because they don't want to ruin the game if it has a chance to launch. I suppose every game has a "chance." But let's face it, in reality either a game is being financed and worked on at full speed or it is dying. As for volunteers, you think they don't have a vested interest in the game? If the game launches and their work stands out, they have an opportunity to get into the gaming industry. They wouldn't sabotage the very door they are trying to enter and will say whatever they are told to say or not say. But the facts are, HJ has been in development way too long. It's worked on by volunteers which is a terrible way to build your product. And Simu has a track record of taking forever (sometimes never) in development of their other games. I suppose I still have hope HJ will launch but it's a very small hope at this time. And yeah, I'm still hoping on Duke Nukem Forever...
Unpaid volunteers don't work forever. There have been volunteers that have moved on after working on HJ. If the game was dying, don't you think that you would've heard something about it? Doesn't the fact that there has been absolutely nothing like that leaked mean anything? A volunteer can use their time at HJ on a resume, whether or not the game is released.
Originally posted by Kenorv
I think that Simu got in over their heads with HJ and aren't willing to admit that they got in over their heads. Silence is better than admitting mistakes I guess. Why else would they suddenly go quiet when they halted work on the game and focused all of their resources on the game engine so they could license it? If they had been honest with us about that instead of keeping us in the dark then it probably would have made them look like they weren't prepared for this project. So they just told us nothing for several months and hoped that we wouldn't lose interest in the game. Personally that's not the way I think a company should do business. I think they should be honest with their potential customers about any delays, hiccups etc. I'd have much more respect for a company that it honest with it's customers than one that hides things from them. It's obvious that having your entire staff work on the game or the engine or whatever it is they're working on at the moment, isn't going to get the game finished and launched any time soon so why not take one person off the project just one day per month and have that person work on updating the website, so at the very least, what little info you do post there is accurate. There's no reason for that F.A.Q. to be out dated. Stuff like that makes a company look unprofessional and gives a bad impression to potential customers. If you think that all you need to do is make a good game to attract and keep customers then you're dead wrong. Customer service and public relations are just as important and those things start long before the game launches. If you neglect those aspects of business(and Simu certainly has) then you're setting yourself up for failure. Again, I think that Simu got in over their heads with a lack of financing at the start and even now a lack of full time, on site staff. If you only have enough people to focus on one thing then you're not going to be successful. But keeping quiet about your problems and hoping that customers will forget about them is even worse. It may be a cliche but honesty really is the best policy and Simu hasn't been honest with their customers.
HJ has a full-time on-site staff. It's not a big company with a big PR firm, but who cares? Yes, the faq is outdated. Does that mean anything? Well, according to you it does, but to me it just means that they have a smaller team than most giant budgeted companies, and are prioritizing.
You go from saying that you think Simu got in over their heads (with no evidence aside from a lack of PR), and then you end with, "But keeping quiet about your problems and hoping that customers will forget about them is even worse. It may be a cliche but honesty really is the best policy and Simu hasn't been honest with their customers." Woah, there. Where did that come from? What are these problems, and when has Simu ever been dishonest with its customers (regarding HJ)? Are you referring to tentative release dates? Is missing one, lying? I'm confused how you came to this conclusion.
I never said they lied about anything or were dishonest. I said they've kept quiet about too much. You do remember that they just went silent all of a sudden when they put the game on hold to work on the engine and didn't tell anyone about that for several months nor did they release any info period about anything. That's what I mean when I say then need to be honest about things. Don't go in the dark for 6 months, or whatever is was, and then another 4 months and counting with the exception of one little post on their site about developer openings. Doing that just makes people think that things are at best on hold and at worst cancelled. You can't tell me that if this was another company in another industry that was doing this that you wouldn't think that it was unprofessional. Looking unprofessional is one of the problems that I'm referring to.
You may disagree but public relations is important. I don't have the link but MMORPG.com did an interview with some people from Blizzard and one of their keys to success was the emphasis on PR. If you can't even keep a website up to date and accurate then what impression do you think that gives to potential customers? PR is a company's first impression not the game itself. If you wait until the game launches to try and make your first impression then you're probably not going to be successful. People will have already formed their opinions and whether or not you believe that is fair it's still the reality of the situation. So if you're not giving a good impression of your company before your product is ready to launch and just hope that your potential customers wait until it does before they form an opinion then you're going to lose out on a lot of business whether you're talking about an MMO or any other product.
Simu is a small company and doesn't have the name recognition to fall back on like other company's in the industry do. They can't give people the silent treatment and then expect them to be drooling with anticipation until the game launches. If things worked that way then every product and project would be kept secret until it launched.
Simu needs to be setting HJ apart from every other MMO out there. Right now they're just making themselves look like a company that's in over it's head. If all of their resources are allocated to working on the game then they don't have enough resources. It's not enough to just envision making a great game. You have to be fully prepared in order to make a great game and when you barely have enough staff to work on the game and nothing else that goes along with it then you're not prepared. That's another problem that I'm referring to. They still don't seem to have the proper staff for this project and at the very least they didn't have the proper funding at the start of the project. It's unknown if they do now even after working out licensing deals for the engines with several companies. But again, lack of financing was at the very least a problem at one point and they compounded that problem by going dark for an extended period of time.
Now I certainly don't think that finances is something that needs to be public knowledge but again, if they ever have to do what they did earlier, which was put the game on hold to work on the engine to aquire more financing, then they need to let people know that instead of going in the dark.
In all the treads i've read through since i joined here back in July, there were 3 pages of thread out of the 21 total, there has been one common theme in every topic. This is my opinion. It has been use as both a weapon and shield.
Kenorv you bring up good points and arguments of support, i just have a few questions about your latest response.
1. Blizzard says PR is a key to sucess. What revelance does this have to Simu?
2. Who are Simu's potential customers for HJ? Potential Customer is a generic label, which carries a relative definition. What is your definition of there potential customer?
3. Your 3rd paragraph, how does there size keep them from having recognition? How is this a companies recognition or lack of determined? Why do you use absolute negatives such as doesn't and can't?
4. You and many people in numerous topics there lack of staff, uses of volenteer staff etc. What is the approx. count of Simu's onsite staff and there location? What does a person have to do to be a part of the volentary staff and where are they located?
5. Where is it written and whats the enforcing agency that imposes, A company is required to provide any infomation about products that are in development and not available for purchace?
Im just looking for some clarification on a few of they things you pointed out.
I am actually glad for the new radio silence. I hope it continues, and I hope it continues to be the new corporate policy. It's tough that it was enacted in the middle of development rather at the start, but keep it up. I'd MUCH rather know nothing of Savants, Monks, Animate Dead, Wyr, Suari, Physics Engines, the interface, etc and be surprised and overwhelmed when they're released than be anticipating something that never comes to flurition. I just wish they had learned to shut up in 1997 instead of 2007...
Still holds true. I am VERY VERY VERY glad they have closed the lid. I just wish they had done it sooner. If I don't know what I'm going to have when I finially get to play the game, I don't know what I'm missing by not playing it.
They need to do a huge blowout advertising campaign (IF and only IF the game is solid) when it's 2-3 months away so we can all wait for it like salavating dogs, release the brady games guide a week or two before launch so we can all learn how not to play your characters (we all learned this with FFXI, yes?). Tell everybody why it rocks so hard, then release it with much fanfare and lots of info.
I don't need tidbits of information. I don't want tidbits of information. If I don't GET tidbits of information then two great things happen: A) I can't complain it doesn't make it into the final game, and I can't pine away for it for 8 years.
Keep those lips as close together as possible, Simu. GOOD JOB!
Just be sure to tell me when to get my hopes up again (and there better not be any release-date pushbacks). We're talkin when you're printing up the disks, and stuffing the boxes, or so finished the beta is more of a Release Canidate 5 than any form of beta...
General theme for those that didn't read that whole thing: Hurray for Simu for shutting up. Keep your mouth shut and you tell me when I need to start getting excited (no more than 3 months please).
I never said they lied about anything or were dishonest. I said they've kept quiet about too much.
Seriously? You don't remember saying this one post ago?
Originally posted by Kenorv
Simu hasn't been honest with their customers.
Not honest = dishonest. FYI.
Originally posted by Kenorv
You do remember that they just went silent all of a sudden when they put the game on hold to work on the engine and didn't tell anyone about that for several months nor did they release any info period about anything. That's what I mean when I say then need to be honest about things. Don't go in the dark for 6 months, or whatever is was, and then another 4 months and counting with the exception of one little post on their site about developer openings. Doing that just makes people think that things are at best on hold and at worst cancelled. You can't tell me that if this was another company in another industry that was doing this that you wouldn't think that it was unprofessional. Looking unprofessional is one of the problems that I'm referring to.
You do realize that "going dark" is something game companies do so often, they even have a term for it? It's called "going dark." It refers to a time when a company stops doing PR for various reasons, and focuses on a game. It's fairly common, and by fairly common I mean EVERY company has done it.
Originally posted by Kenorv
You may disagree but public relations is important. I don't have the link but MMORPG.com did an interview with some people from Blizzard and one of their keys to success was the emphasis on PR. If you can't even keep a website up to date and accurate then what impression do you think that gives to potential customers? PR is a company's first impression not the game itself. If you wait until the game launches to try and make your first impression then you're probably not going to be successful. People will have already formed their opinions and whether or not you believe that is fair it's still the reality of the situation. So if you're not giving a good impression of your company before your product is ready to launch and just hope that your potential customers wait until it does before they form an opinion then you're going to lose out on a lot of business whether you're talking about an MMO or any other product.
PR, is important, I agree. Blizzard, however, is a giant company with a lot of money. They can afford the gigantic PR firm they've hired. Simu is a much much smaller company.
This section of your reply leads me to think you're pretty confused about several things. First off, Simu HAS been doing PR for HJ. The game has been featured on well-known sites and in high-profile magazines.
You say that a game will either not "be successful," or will "lose out on a lot of business," if PR isn't utilized fully. There are plenty of games that don't have great PR, but end up selling well anyway. These are called "sleeper hits." PR does help, but word-of-mouth can be just as strong as any ad campaign (see EVE Online).
Originally posted by Kenorv
Simu is a small company and doesn't have the name recognition to fall back on like other company's in the industry do. They can't give people the silent treatment and then expect them to be drooling with anticipation until the game launches. If things worked that way then every product and project would be kept secret until it launched.
Simu is "giving people the silent treatment"? I think you're taking a temporary lack of updates a little personally. Plenty of games, movies, tv shows, products, etc ARE kept secret until they're launched. Seriously, you've never heard of that? I'd bother to list one of the trillions of examples, but I'm sure, if you think about it for a sec, you'll come up with one.
Originally posted by Kenorv
Simu needs to be setting HJ apart from every other MMO out there. Right now they're just making themselves look like a company that's in over it's head. If all of their resources are allocated to working on the game then they don't have enough resources. It's not enough to just envision making a great game. You have to be fully prepared in order to make a great game and when you barely have enough staff to work on the game and nothing else that goes along with it then you're not prepared.
So, let me get this straight. According to you, having plenty of money and an entire team of dedicated programmers, artists, etc, isn't being "fully prepared" to design a game...? Okaaay...
Originally posted by Kenorv
That's another problem that I'm referring to. They still don't seem to have the proper staff for this project and at the very least they didn't have the proper funding at the start of the project. It's unknown if they do now even after working out licensing deals for the engines with several companies. But again, lack of financing was at the very least a problem at one point and they compounded that problem by going dark for an extended period of time. Now I certainly don't think that finances is something that needs to be public knowledge but again, if they ever have to do what they did earlier, which was put the game on hold to work on the engine to aquire more financing, then they need to let people know that instead of going in the dark.
Many untruths in this part. They DO have the proper staff for this project. They have a full, on-site team, as well as many volunteers. They were never in a situation where they "didn't have the proper funding." The engine started selling, so they were simply able to put more money into it. The game was still being developed before then. [/quote]
I'd have much more respect for a company that it honest with it's customers than one that hides things from them. Stuff like that makes a company look unprofessional and gives a bad impression to potential customers. It may be a cliche but honesty really is the best policy and Simu hasn't been honest with their customers.
Go look up the definition of potential. I clearly said potential customers.
Not to nitpick or anything...
Hey, you know what they say: When logic fails, toss insults or nitpick.
Agent_X7 AKA J Star [/URL] Notice: The views expressed in this post are solely those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the views of MMORPG.com or its management.
so the bottomlinewill be... It isn't dead?? it's just too secretive and doesn't care about PR right?? or I got it all wrong again... I was really looking forward tothis game and this uncertainty is quit dmaging to the "potential" playerbase, i agree with that.
In your opinion, but i totally disagree with it. The playerbase is already available and as a starting point will be the Dragonrealms and Gemstone base and that is all I believe Simu expect as a starting point.
This game is taking what matters, not what the uneducated think matters and will put omething special back into the genre. WOW a game where every feature quest and last piece of comntent is known before release what a novel concept!!
________________________________________________________ Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
I know it's frustrating. I want to play HJ as much as anyone. What I will tell you is that the game is coming along faster than I expected. Big parts of the game are being finalized and we're moving steadily forward. Dang this vague PR-speak, but it's true.
I'm sorry to say this, but you sound pretty much as all GM's has sounded since '05...
..I want to believe.. but...
__________________________ Reality is for people who lack imagination
I know it's frustrating. I want to play HJ as much as anyone. What I will tell you is that the game is coming along faster than I expected. Big parts of the game are being finalized and we're moving steadily forward. Dang this vague PR-speak, but it's true.
I'm sorry to say this, but you sound pretty much as all GM's has sounded since '05...
..I want to believe.. but...
GMs who have been working on the world and generating content, they can't go too far else they will be out on their ear...
The approach Simu take is spot on and does not pander to the minority, setting false expectations is worse than setting none at all. And anyone who is a realist should realise that.
________________________________________________________ Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
Simultronics for sure did not have the resources/cash to finish there game IMO there is no doubt of that.Once they sold a few rights of there engine to companies such as bioware they decided to uptake the game once again.I think what has most likely happened is they are trying to work out some glitches in there engine that customers are not happy with.Since the sale of there engine rights is what is keeping them afloat i think it's very likely.
Thing i don't understand is them bragging about REALTIME updating,that is VERY old news as game engines did that 7 years ago,so go figure what they're on about IDK.
IMO there engine will rival the original unreal engine and nothing more,but it's not bad ,it's still about the gameplay anyhow.
I know articles talk about stuff like EA having 100+ staff and these guys barely 50.Ever hear of a company called naughtydog?crash bandicoot ring a bell,these guys started super small and did big things,so you don't need a huge staff to do it.Naughtydog[started by 2 16 yr olds] impressed so much that SOE bought there rights for several years and both sides are very happy.I think simultronics moves to slow as they should have had something out by now ,heck even a workeable demo.Trying to play the big game designing your own engine may be profiteable but man alive has to eat up tons of cash on a mere hope.I guess so many saw the big cashflow the unreal engine made and that guy from quake/ID and his opengl engine.
Good luck to simultronics as i am sure they could make a decent playable game,but there gonna outdate themselves if they take much longer.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
They promote their engine on the basis that it allows a developer to create content much more quickly than other engines, and yet, they have taken longer on their own game than any I know, and it's nowhere closed to complete, or even beta. I personally find that funny.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
I dunno if it's dead or not. I was looking forward to the game as I'm a big fan of their other titles in the past. But right now it doesn't look like anything is happening. They've gone completely dark, haven't even updated the information they've given out previously and their official site still has the release date being last year.
Doesn't exactly bode well for the state of the game. I suspect that others are correct: They've probably shifted focus to the engine again to continue marketting it to other developers and the game is languishing because of it.
Could be wrong. But the total lack of any information from the company, as well as the fact that the projected beta and release dates have come and gone without a word don't exactly inspire confidence that any real work is being done on the game itself right now.
"A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell
There was a post a couple of weeks ago on their forum by one of the devs. He said that it was an unofficial update, but that the game is not dead and that they are just focussing on working on the game rather than talking about working on it.
Originally posted by JagerMichael There was a post a couple of weeks ago on their forum by one of the devs. He said that it was an unofficial update, but that the game is not dead and that they are just focussing on working on the game rather than talking about working on it. Take that for what you will.
Hope it's true... But they really aught to update the website, at LEAST take the projected release date off the site, makes them look like a pack of ametures.
"A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell
I'd have much more respect for a company that it honest with it's customers than one that hides things from them. Stuff like that makes a company look unprofessional and gives a bad impression to potential customers. It may be a cliche but honesty really is the best policy and Simu hasn't been honest with their customers.
Go look up the definition of potential. I clearly said potential customers.
Not to nitpick or anything...
When I say "A company," that's a general term and doesn't refer to Simu specifically. If you want me to change it so it fits more with the rest of the post then I can do that.
"I'd have much more respect for a comapny that is honest with it's potential customers than one that hides things from them."
But again, that statement was nothing more than a generalization so I don't see anything wrong with that. That last sentence was simply an omission of "potential." I'll admit that part.
Archaos I'm not going to quote you because that would just make one very long post but I do want to respond.
How about I change "honest" to something else, say "forthcomming"? Would that make my point clearer? Again, I'm not saying that they're lying about anything just that they haven't been as forthcomming with information as I believe they should be. So perhaps I just used a poor choice of words.
Now to your other points. I've been following this project since 2004 so I know all about the PR that they did way back when. But when you think about it, it seems so long ago that any significant piece of information, interview, chat, etc, has taken place about the game, what is someone that is finding out about the game for the first time, today tomorrow or whenever supposed to think? How are you supposed to build interest in a game or maintain interest in a game that you just found out about when the last major update was months ago or close to a year ago or however long it's been?
I should probably clear something up. I don't have a problem with them going dark. If they need to do that then fine. Just give everyone a heads up. That was the point I was trying to make. Don't just go dark without saying anything about it. Don't be afraid to tell the public that you have to put the game on hold to work on the engine. Don't be afraid to post on the front page of your website that everyone is busy working on the game and no one has time to post updates. Again, it just goes back to them being more forthcomming with things.
I still stick by my statement that they weren't fully preprared for this project. It's common knowledge that they put the game on hold to work on and license the game engine. If they had plenty of money when they started this project then they wouldn't have had to do that. If they had enough full time staff then they wouldn't have had to do that. They could have worked on both at the same time if they had enough money and staff. So again, I stick by that comment. They had to put the game on hold to aquire the finances to continue. That's no secret . That's common knowledge.
Now that happened the first time they went dark. They're currently in a second dark period so you can't tell me that you don't at least have some doubt about their current capabilities. I admit, I don't know for sure what their current status is but after they acknowledged the reason for their first dark period but you have to at least wonder if that's not the reason for this current one. If it is then there's no way that they have enough money or staff for this project.
Comments
I'm not sure you've read this thread thoroughly, but there are many emotions evident in the complainers' posts, and boredom doesn't seem like one of them, you being the possible exception.
I believe (and I may be mistaken, PR's not my thing) that most of the public info was previously coordinated by Melissa (a former producer). When she left, information dropped off fairly rapidly. She was also the person who originally interviewed me and stuck me on the GM dev team. I'm not sure why the PR blitzing wasn't taken up by someone else after her departure, but I know in the last year alone there have been substantial improvements to the game itself. It's definitely not dead, just very quiet.
HJ-Xadrian
Hero's Journey GameMaster - Fighting for the rights of badgers everywhere.
www.play.net/hj/
Shhh, Simu is being very quiet they're hunting wabbits...
with ninjas...
(yay a GM replied!)
Well said. Lol
What I find amazing about a large percentage of gamers is that illusionary concept they have on what there entitled to.
Bottom line, were not entitled to anything, and no matter how much you whine, cry, flame, etc you still have nothing.
So ask yourself, did I spend my time wisely? Once its gone you never get it back.
Actually, I think most people complaining here are not outraged. I'm just making observations and making opinions based on what's been presented. No one believes they are entitled to anything.I think your comments made you feel like you made some extraordinary insight on the thread. But the truth is, most if not all of us are bored and since there's a topic of interest to discuss, we add our opinions. Nothing more. We can discuss the faults of Simu without having to think more into the conversation.
What I find amazing about a large percentage of gamers is that illusionary concept that they have these great insights and clever thoughts (let's see if you can find the irony in that).
Unpaid volunteers don't work forever. There have been volunteers that have moved on after working on HJ. If the game was dying, don't you think that you would've heard something about it? Doesn't the fact that there has been absolutely nothing like that leaked mean anything? A volunteer can use their time at HJ on a resume, whether or not the game is released.
HJ has a full-time on-site staff. It's not a big company with a big PR firm, but who cares? Yes, the faq is outdated. Does that mean anything? Well, according to you it does, but to me it just means that they have a smaller team than most giant budgeted companies, and are prioritizing.
You go from saying that you think Simu got in over their heads (with no evidence aside from a lack of PR), and then you end with, "But keeping quiet about your problems and hoping that customers will forget about them is even worse. It may be a cliche but honesty really is the best policy and Simu hasn't been honest with their customers." Woah, there. Where did that come from? What are these problems, and when has Simu ever been dishonest with its customers (regarding HJ)? Are you referring to tentative release dates? Is missing one, lying? I'm confused how you came to this conclusion.
I never said they lied about anything or were dishonest. I said they've kept quiet about too much. You do remember that they just went silent all of a sudden when they put the game on hold to work on the engine and didn't tell anyone about that for several months nor did they release any info period about anything. That's what I mean when I say then need to be honest about things. Don't go in the dark for 6 months, or whatever is was, and then another 4 months and counting with the exception of one little post on their site about developer openings. Doing that just makes people think that things are at best on hold and at worst cancelled. You can't tell me that if this was another company in another industry that was doing this that you wouldn't think that it was unprofessional. Looking unprofessional is one of the problems that I'm referring to.You may disagree but public relations is important. I don't have the link but MMORPG.com did an interview with some people from Blizzard and one of their keys to success was the emphasis on PR. If you can't even keep a website up to date and accurate then what impression do you think that gives to potential customers? PR is a company's first impression not the game itself. If you wait until the game launches to try and make your first impression then you're probably not going to be successful. People will have already formed their opinions and whether or not you believe that is fair it's still the reality of the situation. So if you're not giving a good impression of your company before your product is ready to launch and just hope that your potential customers wait until it does before they form an opinion then you're going to lose out on a lot of business whether you're talking about an MMO or any other product.
Simu is a small company and doesn't have the name recognition to fall back on like other company's in the industry do. They can't give people the silent treatment and then expect them to be drooling with anticipation until the game launches. If things worked that way then every product and project would be kept secret until it launched.
Simu needs to be setting HJ apart from every other MMO out there. Right now they're just making themselves look like a company that's in over it's head. If all of their resources are allocated to working on the game then they don't have enough resources. It's not enough to just envision making a great game. You have to be fully prepared in order to make a great game and when you barely have enough staff to work on the game and nothing else that goes along with it then you're not prepared. That's another problem that I'm referring to. They still don't seem to have the proper staff for this project and at the very least they didn't have the proper funding at the start of the project. It's unknown if they do now even after working out licensing deals for the engines with several companies. But again, lack of financing was at the very least a problem at one point and they compounded that problem by going dark for an extended period of time.
Now I certainly don't think that finances is something that needs to be public knowledge but again, if they ever have to do what they did earlier, which was put the game on hold to work on the engine to aquire more financing, then they need to let people know that instead of going in the dark.
Unpaid volunteers don't work forever. There have been volunteers that have moved on after working on HJ. If the game was dying, don't you think that you would've heard something about it? Doesn't the fact that there has been absolutely nothing like that leaked mean anything? A volunteer can use their time at HJ on a resume, whether or not the game is released.
HJ has a full-time on-site staff. It's not a big company with a big PR firm, but who cares? Yes, the faq is outdated. Does that mean anything? Well, according to you it does, but to me it just means that they have a smaller team than most giant budgeted companies, and are prioritizing.
You go from saying that you think Simu got in over their heads (with no evidence aside from a lack of PR), and then you end with, "But keeping quiet about your problems and hoping that customers will forget about them is even worse. It may be a cliche but honesty really is the best policy and Simu hasn't been honest with their customers." Woah, there. Where did that come from? What are these problems, and when has Simu ever been dishonest with its customers (regarding HJ)? Are you referring to tentative release dates? Is missing one, lying? I'm confused how you came to this conclusion.
I love the ironic outrage.Simu hasn't been honest with their customers!
Of course, they have no Hero's Journey customers, since the game hasn't been released and nobody has, in fact, paid a dime for it.
People are just impatient and silly.
Go look up the definition of potential. I clearly said potential customers.
Go look up the definition of potential. I clearly said potential customers.
Not to nitpick or anything...
Unpaid volunteers don't work forever. There have been volunteers that have moved on after working on HJ. If the game was dying, don't you think that you would've heard something about it? Doesn't the fact that there has been absolutely nothing like that leaked mean anything? A volunteer can use their time at HJ on a resume, whether or not the game is released.
HJ has a full-time on-site staff. It's not a big company with a big PR firm, but who cares? Yes, the faq is outdated. Does that mean anything? Well, according to you it does, but to me it just means that they have a smaller team than most giant budgeted companies, and are prioritizing.
You go from saying that you think Simu got in over their heads (with no evidence aside from a lack of PR), and then you end with, "But keeping quiet about your problems and hoping that customers will forget about them is even worse. It may be a cliche but honesty really is the best policy and Simu hasn't been honest with their customers." Woah, there. Where did that come from? What are these problems, and when has Simu ever been dishonest with its customers (regarding HJ)? Are you referring to tentative release dates? Is missing one, lying? I'm confused how you came to this conclusion.
I never said they lied about anything or were dishonest. I said they've kept quiet about too much. You do remember that they just went silent all of a sudden when they put the game on hold to work on the engine and didn't tell anyone about that for several months nor did they release any info period about anything. That's what I mean when I say then need to be honest about things. Don't go in the dark for 6 months, or whatever is was, and then another 4 months and counting with the exception of one little post on their site about developer openings. Doing that just makes people think that things are at best on hold and at worst cancelled. You can't tell me that if this was another company in another industry that was doing this that you wouldn't think that it was unprofessional. Looking unprofessional is one of the problems that I'm referring to.You may disagree but public relations is important. I don't have the link but MMORPG.com did an interview with some people from Blizzard and one of their keys to success was the emphasis on PR. If you can't even keep a website up to date and accurate then what impression do you think that gives to potential customers? PR is a company's first impression not the game itself. If you wait until the game launches to try and make your first impression then you're probably not going to be successful. People will have already formed their opinions and whether or not you believe that is fair it's still the reality of the situation. So if you're not giving a good impression of your company before your product is ready to launch and just hope that your potential customers wait until it does before they form an opinion then you're going to lose out on a lot of business whether you're talking about an MMO or any other product.
Simu is a small company and doesn't have the name recognition to fall back on like other company's in the industry do. They can't give people the silent treatment and then expect them to be drooling with anticipation until the game launches. If things worked that way then every product and project would be kept secret until it launched.
Simu needs to be setting HJ apart from every other MMO out there. Right now they're just making themselves look like a company that's in over it's head. If all of their resources are allocated to working on the game then they don't have enough resources. It's not enough to just envision making a great game. You have to be fully prepared in order to make a great game and when you barely have enough staff to work on the game and nothing else that goes along with it then you're not prepared. That's another problem that I'm referring to. They still don't seem to have the proper staff for this project and at the very least they didn't have the proper funding at the start of the project. It's unknown if they do now even after working out licensing deals for the engines with several companies. But again, lack of financing was at the very least a problem at one point and they compounded that problem by going dark for an extended period of time.
Now I certainly don't think that finances is something that needs to be public knowledge but again, if they ever have to do what they did earlier, which was put the game on hold to work on the engine to aquire more financing, then they need to let people know that instead of going in the dark.
In all the treads i've read through since i joined here back in July, there were 3 pages of thread out of the 21 total, there has been one common theme in every topic. This is my opinion. It has been use as both a weapon and shield.
Kenorv you bring up good points and arguments of support, i just have a few questions about your latest response.
1. Blizzard says PR is a key to sucess. What revelance does this have to Simu?
2. Who are Simu's potential customers for HJ? Potential Customer is a generic label, which carries a relative definition. What is your definition of there potential customer?
3. Your 3rd paragraph, how does there size keep them from having recognition? How is this a companies recognition or lack of determined? Why do you use absolute negatives such as doesn't and can't?
4. You and many people in numerous topics there lack of staff, uses of volenteer staff etc. What is the approx. count of Simu's onsite staff and there location? What does a person have to do to be a part of the volentary staff and where are they located?
5. Where is it written and whats the enforcing agency that imposes, A company is required to provide any infomation about products that are in development and not available for purchace?
Im just looking for some clarification on a few of they things you pointed out.
Still holds true. I am VERY VERY VERY glad they have closed the lid. I just wish they had done it sooner. If I don't know what I'm going to have when I finially get to play the game, I don't know what I'm missing by not playing it.
They need to do a huge blowout advertising campaign (IF and only IF the game is solid) when it's 2-3 months away so we can all wait for it like salavating dogs, release the brady games guide a week or two before launch so we can all learn how not to play your characters (we all learned this with FFXI, yes?). Tell everybody why it rocks so hard, then release it with much fanfare and lots of info.
I don't need tidbits of information. I don't want tidbits of information. If I don't GET tidbits of information then two great things happen: A) I can't complain it doesn't make it into the final game, and
I can't pine away for it for 8 years.
Keep those lips as close together as possible, Simu. GOOD JOB!
Just be sure to tell me when to get my hopes up again (and there better not be any release-date pushbacks). We're talkin when you're printing up the disks, and stuffing the boxes, or so finished the beta is more of a Release Canidate 5 than any form of beta...
General theme for those that didn't read that whole thing: Hurray for Simu for shutting up. Keep your mouth shut and you tell me when I need to start getting excited (no more than 3 months please).
Seriously? You don't remember saying this one post ago?
Not honest = dishonest. FYI.
You do realize that "going dark" is something game companies do so often, they even have a term for it? It's called "going dark." It refers to a time when a company stops doing PR for various reasons, and focuses on a game. It's fairly common, and by fairly common I mean EVERY company has done it.
PR, is important, I agree. Blizzard, however, is a giant company with a lot of money. They can afford the gigantic PR firm they've hired. Simu is a much much smaller company.
This section of your reply leads me to think you're pretty confused about several things. First off, Simu HAS been doing PR for HJ. The game has been featured on well-known sites and in high-profile magazines.
You say that a game will either not "be successful," or will "lose out on a lot of business," if PR isn't utilized fully. There are plenty of games that don't have great PR, but end up selling well anyway. These are called "sleeper hits." PR does help, but word-of-mouth can be just as strong as any ad campaign (see EVE Online).
Simu is "giving people the silent treatment"? I think you're taking a temporary lack of updates a little personally. Plenty of games, movies, tv shows, products, etc ARE kept secret until they're launched. Seriously, you've never heard of that? I'd bother to list one of the trillions of examples, but I'm sure, if you think about it for a sec, you'll come up with one.
So, let me get this straight. According to you, having plenty of money and an entire team of dedicated programmers, artists, etc, isn't being "fully prepared" to design a game...? Okaaay...
Many untruths in this part. They DO have the proper staff for this project. They have a full, on-site team, as well as many volunteers. They were never in a situation where they "didn't have the proper funding." The engine started selling, so they were simply able to put more money into it. The game was still being developed before then.
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so the bottomlinewill be... It isn't dead?? it's just too secretive and doesn't care about PR right?? or I got it all wrong again...
I was really looking forward tothis game and this uncertainty is quit dmaging to the "potential" playerbase, i agree with that.
Go look up the definition of potential. I clearly said potential customers.
Not to nitpick or anything...
Hey, you know what they say: When logic fails, toss insults or nitpick.
Agent_X7 AKA J Star
[/URL]
Notice: The views expressed in this post are solely those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the views of MMORPG.com or its management.
This game is taking what matters, not what the uneducated think matters and will put omething special back into the genre. WOW a game where every feature quest and last piece of comntent is known before release what a novel concept!!
________________________________________________________
Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
..I want to believe.. but...
__________________________
Reality is for people who lack imagination
..I want to believe.. but...
GMs who have been working on the world and generating content, they can't go too far else they will be out on their ear...
The approach Simu take is spot on and does not pander to the minority, setting false expectations is worse than setting none at all. And anyone who is a realist should realise that.
________________________________________________________
Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
Simultronics for sure did not have the resources/cash to finish there game IMO there is no doubt of that.Once they sold a few rights of there engine to companies such as bioware they decided to uptake the game once again.I think what has most likely happened is they are trying to work out some glitches in there engine that customers are not happy with.Since the sale of there engine rights is what is keeping them afloat i think it's very likely.
Thing i don't understand is them bragging about REALTIME updating,that is VERY old news as game engines did that 7 years ago,so go figure what they're on about IDK.
IMO there engine will rival the original unreal engine and nothing more,but it's not bad ,it's still about the gameplay anyhow.
I know articles talk about stuff like EA having 100+ staff and these guys barely 50.Ever hear of a company called naughtydog?crash bandicoot ring a bell,these guys started super small and did big things,so you don't need a huge staff to do it.Naughtydog[started by 2 16 yr olds] impressed so much that SOE bought there rights for several years and both sides are very happy.I think simultronics moves to slow as they should have had something out by now ,heck even a workeable demo.Trying to play the big game designing your own engine may be profiteable but man alive has to eat up tons of cash on a mere hope.I guess so many saw the big cashflow the unreal engine made and that guy from quake/ID and his opengl engine.
Good luck to simultronics as i am sure they could make a decent playable game,but there gonna outdate themselves if they take much longer.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Honey, all games out date themselves after being around for a month. True works of art, though, stand a longer test of time.
They promote their engine on the basis that it allows a developer to create content much more quickly than other engines, and yet, they have taken longer on their own game than any I know, and it's nowhere closed to complete, or even beta. I personally find that funny.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
I dunno if it's dead or not. I was looking forward to the game as I'm a big fan of their other titles in the past. But right now it doesn't look like anything is happening. They've gone completely dark, haven't even updated the information they've given out previously and their official site still has the release date being last year.
Doesn't exactly bode well for the state of the game. I suspect that others are correct: They've probably shifted focus to the engine again to continue marketting it to other developers and the game is languishing because of it.
Could be wrong. But the total lack of any information from the company, as well as the fact that the projected beta and release dates have come and gone without a word don't exactly inspire confidence that any real work is being done on the game itself right now.
"A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell
There was a post a couple of weeks ago on their forum by one of the devs. He said that it was an unofficial update, but that the game is not dead and that they are just focussing on working on the game rather than talking about working on it.
Take that for what you will.
Hope it's true... But they really aught to update the website, at LEAST take the projected release date off the site, makes them look like a pack of ametures.
"A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell
Can't argue that.
You'd think they'd atleast mention something about the BioWare MMO using their engine as well.
Well, that fits, since it's exactly what they are.
Bite me, Turbine.
Go look up the definition of potential. I clearly said potential customers.
Not to nitpick or anything...
When I say "A company," that's a general term and doesn't refer to Simu specifically. If you want me to change it so it fits more with the rest of the post then I can do that.
"I'd have much more respect for a comapny that is honest with it's potential customers than one that hides things from them."
But again, that statement was nothing more than a generalization so I don't see anything wrong with that. That last sentence was simply an omission of "potential." I'll admit that part.
Archaos I'm not going to quote you because that would just make one very long post but I do want to respond.
How about I change "honest" to something else, say "forthcomming"? Would that make my point clearer? Again, I'm not saying that they're lying about anything just that they haven't been as forthcomming with information as I believe they should be. So perhaps I just used a poor choice of words.
Now to your other points. I've been following this project since 2004 so I know all about the PR that they did way back when. But when you think about it, it seems so long ago that any significant piece of information, interview, chat, etc, has taken place about the game, what is someone that is finding out about the game for the first time, today tomorrow or whenever supposed to think? How are you supposed to build interest in a game or maintain interest in a game that you just found out about when the last major update was months ago or close to a year ago or however long it's been?
I should probably clear something up. I don't have a problem with them going dark. If they need to do that then fine. Just give everyone a heads up. That was the point I was trying to make. Don't just go dark without saying anything about it. Don't be afraid to tell the public that you have to put the game on hold to work on the engine. Don't be afraid to post on the front page of your website that everyone is busy working on the game and no one has time to post updates. Again, it just goes back to them being more forthcomming with things.
I still stick by my statement that they weren't fully preprared for this project. It's common knowledge that they put the game on hold to work on and license the game engine. If they had plenty of money when they started this project then they wouldn't have had to do that. If they had enough full time staff then they wouldn't have had to do that. They could have worked on both at the same time if they had enough money and staff. So again, I stick by that comment. They had to put the game on hold to aquire the finances to continue. That's no secret . That's common knowledge.
Now that happened the first time they went dark. They're currently in a second dark period so you can't tell me that you don't at least have some doubt about their current capabilities. I admit, I don't know for sure what their current status is but after they acknowledged the reason for their first dark period but you have to at least wonder if that's not the reason for this current one. If it is then there's no way that they have enough money or staff for this project.