There is no governing body, even the FCC that can or would dare come out and say "your not allowed to put boobs in your game." Instead, The game would get a mature rating. Because most large chain gaming stores market mostly to kids they all have policies which exclude the sales of mature rated games. Much like most kids bookstore departments dont sell Playboy.
So really the badguy here is the game sellers. Its their own policy that forbids the games from getting on their shelves. This policy almost forces devs to make their games "kid friendly" despite the fact that the Eula of mmos requires 18+ age. The gaming stores are the ones who dont seem to know their customer base. Its not the governement censoring us, its silly corporate america trying to be politically correct. So if you have a problem with this, go to your nearby store find out what their policy is and address it there.
If all movie theatres had strict "no rated R" policies. It wouldnt be illegal to make the movies(aka censorship), it would just be bad business since no theatres would show it.
As far as I know there is no compulsory censoring agency in the U.S. that will "make" anyone do anything. There is a rating system only. (which of course distributers make buying decisions based on) As long as the game adhears to the rating system there will be no problem with the government. (of course that will not stop people like Jack Thompson or other knotheads like him from making a fuss, generally speaking controversy like this doesn't hurt sales, it usually increases) Examples like GTA was the fact that the adult content was basically "hidden" and not taken into account when it was rated.
If anyone chooses to "censor" the game, it will be Funcom for marketing / rating reasons. The main reason I can think of is because of the fear of potentially lost sales or limited distribution because companies might fear investing in large quantities of "M" rated inventory. But that has nothing to do with direct censorship.
Similar rating systems exist in most markets. The sky isn't falling and Americans love boobies to, they are after all the number one consumer / maker of Porn on the planet. They just like to act all uptight and prude.
Ever played EQ2 ? The girls there have boobs and nipples. They just have no tissue texture. The whole game is a wet t-shirt or body paint contest. Only plate armour chest items doesnt have nipples. Black leather has massives nipples though ROFL Its teen rated I think wet t-shirt or black leather nipples are much more "sex content" then plain naked boobs. Not ?
The problem with the game shops is, they have to have a seperate sales room for A rated stuff. At least where i live. BUT a 5 yo is able to buy a Conan book anytime anywhere without violating social rules.
This whole rating is BS tbh. Funcom is on the stock exchange and i bet the money is comming from european investors. North europe, especially skandinavia are traditionally more liberal. I think Funcom should stick to their heritage. If the US rating hates boobs they just shouldnt release there.
Look at other games. Lineage has those cute girls with this huge phallus.. err.. no its a sword. Lots of other games have those. You can sell any complete BS horror or sex content as long as it is fekked up. It just seems it not possible to sell the reality.
Americans have a very twisted sense of morality (I'm an American). It might be the only country in the world where you can see blood and gore on prime time television but GOD FORBID if anyone shows a little tit because it might corrupt the children. Sex, the most natural and pleasant thing on the planet, is forbidden fruit, but blowing people away on national televison is just fine.
Yes this is true and makes me sick also. But people here are just to ignorant to know how censorship came into the government. Most blame our government for all these things but they don't realize it is not them but the church and special organizations. And here we always thought Church was supposed to be sepperate from state.
At first before we had censorship for games that contained blood gore they where sold to everyone. Then organizations popped up for human rights and what not. Soon the Church got involved and then persuaded by these groups the government had to come up with a rating system. For many of you you would not remember this when it came out how much Representatives and Government officials said it was wrong.
But the people (THE F***in CHURCH) along with these stupid women groups etc. said that it was corrupting our children, that it made them killers and that the Government was responsible to come up with censorship for these games and including music.
Soon they got the rating system, it went on all music and games and videos. The rating system is not working and even deliberated by many representatives of the government had said this system is useless, that it was only a guideline for parents. That the parents are responsible for making the appropriate decisions for their children when it comes to games and music.
SO in the end the Church and groups are responsible for Censorship, not our Government. The Church and these organizations have essentially ruined our rights for choosing what we watch and play.
Remember Janet Jacksons Boob Flop at the SB a few years ago? That was first blown out of proportion from one of these organizations. And damn she had a pasty on. Regular television shows almost the whole breast except the nipples.
Big SIGH...Even though I don't find AOC a great game yet, because I know the game well enough then most, it isn't right to start censoring the RATING SYSTEM. M means mature, why they want to make it harder and place a AO rating is beyond me. F the church and these stupid organizations.
Actually, blame not just the overzealous faith-based organizations, but also America's retail industry. Especially WalMart.
WalMart and GameStop will not carry AO content games, and they make it tough to purchase even Mature games. This is less a case of legal censorship as it is a case of smart business - why potentially lose the support of America's biggest retailers when all you have to do is scale back some of the more objectionable content.
Besides, Robert Howard's Conan stories were racy but not pornographic. Somehow I don't understand why everyone expects that the Conan franchise must include hardcore sexual content. This isn't George RR Martin's Fire and Ice Triology, which deals with incest/prostitution/rape/homosexuality in rather blatant detail. (PS - I love George RR Martin, I'm just pointing out that Howard's work was not NC-17, especially by modern standards)
AmazingAveryAge of Conan AdvocateMemberUncommonPosts: 7,188
Originally posted by BattleFelon
Besides, Robert Howard's Conan stories were racy but not pornographic. Somehow I don't understand why everyone expects that the Conan franchise must include hardcore sexual content. This isn't George RR Martin's Fire and Ice Triology, which deals with incest/prostitution/rape/homosexuality in rather blatant detail. (PS - I love George RR Martin, I'm just pointing out that Howard's work was not NC-17, especially by modern standards)
That would be the trolls and haters this past year purposefully try and incite bad attention via the hardcore non exisitant sexual references and the "its a DX10 title only", "you must buy vista", "The game is T&A, thats all", ... ill fated attempts to put the game down.
Like I said before lets wait and see what the game contains upon release. Its not like people have missed seeing a nipple because they never experienced it in the first place.
Anyway, your right about R.E.H, If it was the Ice Triology then, yea, I would be a lil concerned about the whole content.
LOL, I have to laugh at all the comments that range from puritans and religous zealots to the governmental warmongers.
Keep in mind that the puritans with their religeon and their backward ideas that founded this country are what make it great. The entire american hemisphere could just as easily been won by murderers and rapists. Instead of whining about censorsihp you could be spending your days hiding from murderers and rape gangs. Howd ya like that in real life?
For everyone complaining about the war and bringing our soldiers home, well we all want our boys and girls to come home safe and sound, but keep in mind theres a lot of bad people out there. Remember 9/11? If someone kills your neighbor today and you just say oh well it wasn't my family, believe me he will be back tommorow knocking on your door. For anyone who thinks that controlling the worlds oil is the governments objective, I gotta tell ya, it ain't workin. Where I live gas is anything but cheap.
Anyone who complains about censorship and not being able to see naked people online, keep in mind that 40 years ago porn was a scantily clad girl where you saw virtually nothing. If they give us topless women in video games today, then tommorow it will be total nudity and the day after you'll be getting skill points for raping a spotted zebra. Howd ya like ta see your children playing that?
So the next time you feel like bitching about any of these things try thinking a little deeper. If you do you just might find yourself saying hooray for religous ideals, hooray for puritans, hooray for censorship. Thank god I live in america!!!
LOL, I have to laugh at all the comments that range from puritans and religous zealots to the governmental warmongers. Keep in mind that the puritans with their religeon and their backward ideas that founded this country are what make it great. The entire american hemisphere could just as easily been won by murderers and rapists. Instead of whining about censorsihp you could be spending your days hiding from murderers and rape gangs. Howd ya like that in real life? For everyone complaining about the war and bringing our soldiers home, well we all want our boys and girls to come home safe and sound, but keep in mind theres a lot of bad people out there. Remember 9/11? If someone kills your neighbor today and you just say oh well it wasn't my family, believe me he will be back tommorow knocking on your door. For anyone who thinks that controlling the worlds oil is the governments objective, I gotta tell ya, it ain't workin. Where I live gas is anything but cheap. Anyone who complains about censorship and not being able to see naked people online, keep in mind that 40 years ago porn was a scantily clad girl where you saw virtually nothing. If they give us topless women in video games today, then tommorow it will be total nudity and the day after you'll be getting skill points for raping a spotted zebra. Howd ya like ta see your children playing that? So the next time you feel like bitching about any of these things try thinking a little deeper. If you do you just might find yourself saying hooray for religous ideals, hooray for puritans, hooray for censorship. Thank god I live in america!!!
Ya know, I couldn't give a shit less about this game, but I do love this post. (Not a puritan tho. I love breasts also. Mmmm)
LOL, I have to laugh at all the comments that range from puritans and religous zealots to the governmental warmongers. Keep in mind that the puritans with their religeon and their backward ideas that founded this country are what make it great. The entire american hemisphere could just as easily been won by murderers and rapists. Instead of whining about censorsihp you could be spending your days hiding from murderers and rape gangs. Howd ya like that in real life? For everyone complaining about the war and bringing our soldiers home, well we all want our boys and girls to come home safe and sound, but keep in mind theres a lot of bad people out there. Remember 9/11? If someone kills your neighbor today and you just say oh well it wasn't my family, believe me he will be back tommorow knocking on your door. For anyone who thinks that controlling the worlds oil is the governments objective, I gotta tell ya, it ain't workin. Where I live gas is anything but cheap. Anyone who complains about censorship and not being able to see naked people online, keep in mind that 40 years ago porn was a scantily clad girl where you saw virtually nothing. If they give us topless women in video games today, then tommorow it will be total nudity and the day after you'll be getting skill points for raping a spotted zebra. Howd ya like ta see your children playing that? So the next time you feel like bitching about any of these things try thinking a little deeper. If you do you just might find yourself saying hooray for religous ideals, hooray for puritans, hooray for censorship. Thank god I live in america!!!
A government ruled by murderers and rape gangs - sounds like a hardcore PVPer paradise to me! Constitutional carebears who believe in human rights - GTFO!
But in all seriousness, American society is still too prudish about the wrong things IMHO. We flip out over a bare breast at the Super Bowl but don't blink an eye if a pro football player suddenly becomes a paraplegic after a bad play. Movies like the latest Die Hard are rated PG-13 not because lots of people die gruesome deaths, but because there's no hardcore swearing or sex. Meanwhile, a freaking puppet sex scene almost earns Team America a NC-17 rating.
Now, as I stated before, I don't think the Conan IP demands or even warrants the hardcore adult treatment. But adults should have the right to buy games appropriate to their age level, and retailers should feel free to carry such games in the same way they openly display Rated R movies right next to the latest Hannah Montana video. And saying that sexual content will turn humans into hormone-crazed maniacs is the same argument that the Taliban uses - only they've decided that female faces and hands are also too titillating for public consumption.
Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the ESRB a council that is set up by the software industry to police itself? It is kind of hard to call that sensorship, but I guess the argument could be made.
Anyhow, it isn't like the US is the only country to have limits on what can go in a game or other media. I am sure there are plenty of other laws in other countries the prohibit certain things from being in games. Maybe the US isn't the most liberated when it comes to nudity on the airwaves, but we arn't some draconian society either.
Personally I could care less to see pixilated boobies, a demons penis or get a buff from having cyber sex in a video game. It isn't like that is somehow going to make questing, raiding, PvP any less enjoyable if they aren't in the game, but to each their own I guess.
Americans have a very twisted sense of morality (I'm an American). It might be the only country in the world where you can see blood and gore on prime time television but GOD FORBID if anyone shows a little tit because it might corrupt the children. Sex, the most natural and pleasant thing on the planet, is forbidden fruit, but blowing people away on national televison is just fine.
Well said Mark701. I completly agree. To ban the viewing of breats but allowing blood and guts splattered all over the TV or in a game just does not make sense. Just proves that America is still conservative.
Americans have a very twisted sense of morality (I'm an American). It might be the only country in the world where you can see blood and gore on prime time television but GOD FORBID if anyone shows a little tit because it might corrupt the children. Sex, the most natural and pleasant thing on the planet, is forbidden fruit, but blowing people away on national televison is just fine.
Sex isnt "forbidden fruit" however showing sex in national television infront of millions of people, including children I wouldnt say is a bit natural.
The fact remains that female breasts give a sexual signal to most men, it is a sexual organ just as the genitalia. So giving sexual signals to children and underage people might be considered wrong. Its called ethics.
The point is that according to US Censors, it's fine to see someone get shot in the face (complete with brain splatter), or some other disgusting violent act of murder on National Television just about any night of the week.
Which do you think you'll personally see more in your lifetime: Breasts or Murder?
Which would you personally prefer to see in real life, right in front of your eyes, if you had to choose: Breasts or Murder?
Breasts are only sexual arousing objects because of our society. Ever see documentaries on indigenous peoples of other countries? The women almost all run around topless, but you don't see the menfolk getting aroused left and right. Why? Because their society doesn't think of breasts as sexual. They're mammary glands for feeding babies, that's it. Ethics have nothing to do with it at all.
Bottom line is that Breasts are natural things that we will all see many of in our life (men, women and even children).
Murder (the kind driven by cold blood, not a need to hunt or survive as found in every other animal species) is completely unnatural, disgusting, disturbing and something that most of us will never ever have to witness in real life.
Personally, if I had kids, I'd rather let my them watch nude scenes on TV over someone getting their head chopped off. I guarantee you the sex will disturb them infinitely less than the beheading.
Personally, if I had kids, I'd rather let my them watch nude scenes on TV over someone getting their head chopped off. I guarantee you the sex will disturb them infinitely less than the beheading.
I find this somewhat interesting in a few different ways.
In america primarily breasts are widely used in the forms of sexuality, and primarily for arousal.
A good point was made when it was stated that everyone will see some boobs in their lifetime but not everyone will see murder.
I think that is both partially the Key and also the Downfall of the topic in question.
By showing someone murder, you aren't entirely saying to them "Murder is good, this is normal society." In most cases ratings are put into effect for children so that when you become 13 you should know better then to shoot someone in the face, or stab someone if they take your breakfast cereal.
Ideally however, as knockers are promoted as an arousing object and, about half of the population has them, if a child of 13 were to see a TELEVISION show depicting sex and tits-uninhibited play it would more then likely give them a somewhat perverse demeanor in their future life. Basically you are showing them that when there are breasts involved, then sex is the most logical answer. It's "supposed" protection against young men completely unaware of sexual consequence. Now, in the case of murder, well obviously all murder has it's consequence, depicted in the shows they are used in. Does it make it right to show that? No. But does it show them that murder is unacceptable? To a very large extent, yes.
Now boobs can be construed in many different fashions. You can use them primarily as a sex symbol as most americans do, thereby giving them a direct meaning. (Breasts mean Sex). Or you could give them a different meaning, such as those given in paintings where naked women traditionally frolick in fields without a care in the world.
Personally, depicting a naked woman in a game solely because she can be naked is pretty much useless, of course unless its used as realism for the sake of realism. Then of course I'd suspect seeing my fair share of naked male counterparts.
Having a game using breasts primarily to enhance a sexual experience in game, leave it out, the ones who would take pleasure in that would be the truly perverted or the children that think its cool because it's "forbidden". To purchase a game that isn't intended for sexual use, and using it sexually is ridiculous.
Now if nudity is part of the storyline. (topless mermaids, naked succubi, topless female cetaurs) I can understand that, and it would be completely story enhancing, and I don't see the harm in children knowing that "hey, anytime I see a female centaur she's gunna be topless". I don't think that would be too life changing.
I'm a father of four, and I can say first hand how goofy the American public is when it comes to breasts. My wife breastfed all of our kids, although she always covered up with a blanket when in public. We still got rude stares and ignorant remarks from idiots.
When I was in the Air Force, I lived in Germany and Greece. Topless beaches and nudity on television (even commercials were the norm). Guess what? Their societies are doing just fine. I can honestly say, it was culture shock when I returned to the states.
Personally, if I had kids, I'd rather let my them watch nude scenes on TV over someone getting their head chopped off. I guarantee you the sex will disturb them infinitely less than the beheading.
I find this somewhat interesting in a few different ways.
In america primarily breasts are widely used in the forms of sexuality, and primarily for arousal.
A good point was made when it was stated that everyone will see some boobs in their lifetime but not everyone will see murder.
I think that is both partially the Key and also the Downfall of the topic in question.
By showing someone murder, you aren't entirely saying to them "Murder is good, this is normal society." In most cases ratings are put into effect for children so that when you become 13 you should know better then to shoot someone in the face, or stab someone if they take your breakfast cereal.
Ideally however, as knockers are promoted as an arousing object and, about half of the population has them, if a child of 13 were to see a TELEVISION show depicting sex and tits-uninhibited play it would more then likely give them a somewhat perverse demeanor in their future life. Basically you are showing them that when there are breasts involved, then sex is the most logical answer. It's "supposed" protection against young men completely unaware of sexual consequence. Now, in the case of murder, well obviously all murder has it's consequence, depicted in the shows they are used in. Does it make it right to show that? No. But does it show them that murder is unacceptable? To a very large extent, yes.
Now boobs can be construed in many different fashions. You can use them primarily as a sex symbol as most americans do, thereby giving them a direct meaning. (Breasts mean Sex). Or you could give them a different meaning, such as those given in paintings where naked women traditionally frolick in fields without a care in the world.
Personally, depicting a naked woman in a game solely because she can be naked is pretty much useless, of course unless its used as realism for the sake of realism. Then of course I'd suspect seeing my fair share of naked male counterparts.
Having a game using breasts primarily to enhance a sexual experience in game, leave it out, the ones who would take pleasure in that would be the truly perverted or the children that think its cool because it's "forbidden". To purchase a game that isn't intended for sexual use, and using it sexually is ridiculous.
Now if nudity is part of the storyline. (topless mermaids, naked succubi, topless female cetaurs) I can understand that, and it would be completely story enhancing, and I don't see the harm in children knowing that "hey, anytime I see a female centaur she's gunna be topless". I don't think that would be too life changing.
This is an interesting topic. About a year ago Fox News had on this debate about sex on tv etc. The average age a child sees sex or hardcore porn is age 12 on the internet. The next big thing was that the last 10yrs female girls got their periods at the average age of 10. Now for most this won't seem odd, but at the age of 10 for most young girls getting their period means that they are to hormonal. One expert on that panel said that the reason why these girls today get a period so young is because of all the sexual content they are around, making them change quicker and have more hormones then usual.
This makes sense since sexual content on tv has risen considerably. It is simulated covered up sex or they get it from the internet. I think why women 20yrs+ ago got periods at an average age of 15 vs. todays average age of 10 is because the way sex is shown on tv and simulated is greater now then it was 20yrs ago.
This whole thing is interesting. I think just seeing normal boobs though in a game isn't bad, but rather the internet and tv has greater sexual provocations then any game could have. I mean a game isn't going to show people touching the breasts or having simulated sex.
I read around, and as for it being censored is far too hard to tell if it will happen or not. This is the first game I know of that changes its content based on local laws and things. The programming will be there to have it, but doesn't mean it has to be enabled. Anyone remember the whole GTA thing where it had the hidden "sexual scene". It got the rating for the game changed to AO, and changed the rules for ratings a bit. It was hidden programming not normally viewable. Later copies of game had it removed to lower the rating back to mature.
The game could use a patching system, so the game ships without the nudity being there, because its a pc game, and able to obvioulsy get online. With this run around, it could even get a teen rating by removing the more violent elements pre ship. The rating system is done before ship. Thats where the open line "Game experience may change during online play" comes into play. The descriptor for the line even mentions skins. But the game really complicates things here again. They do after release testing.
The game unlike a console game where you don't tend to pay to get online, could use an age check system sort of like adult websites. It would look at your credit card, is the age on it legal according to your area. Its good enough to get you to hot XXX action, and noone complains that I know about that. Its not like this game will show sex even.
On the whole, the rating system seems complete rubish for rating something like this. Online games in general really.
Its overly simplified to help parents decide if a game is right for their kids. I think its up to the parents, I won't ever think diffrently. They need to do the work and check out the game themselves. I don't mean check the rating, I mean play it and see if its right for their kids. I recall when they used to always say that.
http://www.esrb.org/about/news.jsp Now they go on about teaching parents about ratings. Rating education this and that. What about making a system so a game could be better previewed by parents. Give parents a day to play it. If you really wanted to precheck a game, give a way for parents to check it out and decide themselves.
My mother would actually take the extra step, buy the game, play it herself (She just loved to play games anyway as she owned her own consoles), and then she would maybe let me play. She also was the one who wanted me to get my first piercing and tattoo, and went with me to the parlors, but she didn't let me play violent games when I was underage for them.
Whole thing makes me think its backwards from how it should be, and makes me angry, want to drink and beat children. You see what You have done to me now ESRB rating board?
I think oversoul is probably right that they will have a scalable version of the game. In other words, like so many games, you will have to enter your Birth Date to "unlock" the boobs and possibly the blood. In that sense it may make everyone happy.
And we all know if you are under 18 you will not put in your wrong birthdate..... lol.
Comments
Well, honestly this isnt censorship.
No more than rating a movie "R" is censoring it.
There is no governing body, even the FCC that can or would dare come out and say "your not allowed to put boobs in your game." Instead, The game would get a mature rating. Because most large chain gaming stores market mostly to kids they all have policies which exclude the sales of mature rated games. Much like most kids bookstore departments dont sell Playboy.
So really the badguy here is the game sellers. Its their own policy that forbids the games from getting on their shelves. This policy almost forces devs to make their games "kid friendly" despite the fact that the Eula of mmos requires 18+ age. The gaming stores are the ones who dont seem to know their customer base. Its not the governement censoring us, its silly corporate america trying to be politically correct. So if you have a problem with this, go to your nearby store find out what their policy is and address it there.
If all movie theatres had strict "no rated R" policies. It wouldnt be illegal to make the movies(aka censorship), it would just be bad business since no theatres would show it.
Well...
As far as I know there is no compulsory censoring agency in the U.S. that will "make" anyone do anything. There is a rating system only. (which of course distributers make buying decisions based on) As long as the game adhears to the rating system there will be no problem with the government. (of course that will not stop people like Jack Thompson or other knotheads like him from making a fuss, generally speaking controversy like this doesn't hurt sales, it usually increases) Examples like GTA was the fact that the adult content was basically "hidden" and not taken into account when it was rated.
If anyone chooses to "censor" the game, it will be Funcom for marketing / rating reasons. The main reason I can think of is because of the fear of potentially lost sales or limited distribution because companies might fear investing in large quantities of "M" rated inventory. But that has nothing to do with direct censorship.
Similar rating systems exist in most markets. The sky isn't falling and Americans love boobies to, they are after all the number one consumer / maker of Porn on the planet. They just like to act all uptight and prude.
LOL
Ever played EQ2 ? The girls there have boobs and nipples. They just have no tissue texture. The whole game is a wet t-shirt or body paint contest. Only plate armour chest items doesnt have nipples. Black leather has massives nipples though ROFL Its teen rated
I think wet t-shirt or black leather nipples are much more "sex content" then plain naked boobs. Not ?
The problem with the game shops is, they have to have a seperate sales room for A rated stuff. At least where i live. BUT a 5 yo is able to buy a Conan book anytime anywhere without violating social rules.
This whole rating is BS tbh. Funcom is on the stock exchange and i bet the money is comming from european investors. North europe, especially skandinavia are traditionally more liberal. I think Funcom should stick to their heritage. If the US rating hates boobs they just shouldnt release there.
Look at other games. Lineage has those cute girls with this huge phallus.. err.. no its a sword.
Lots of other games have those. You can sell any complete BS horror or sex content as long as it is fekked up. It just seems it not possible to sell the reality.
And there are always plenty of "Good Germans" willing to go along with anything the government does. Some things never change.
At first before we had censorship for games that contained blood gore they where sold to everyone. Then organizations popped up for human rights and what not. Soon the Church got involved and then persuaded by these groups the government had to come up with a rating system. For many of you you would not remember this when it came out how much Representatives and Government officials said it was wrong.
But the people (THE F***in CHURCH)
along with these stupid women groups etc. said that it was corrupting our children, that it made them killers and that the Government was responsible to come up with censorship for these games and including music.
Soon they got the rating system, it went on all music and games and videos. The rating system is not working and even deliberated by many representatives of the government had said this system is useless, that it was only a guideline for parents. That the parents are responsible for making the appropriate decisions for their children when it comes to games and music.
SO in the end the Church and groups are responsible for Censorship, not our Government. The Church and these organizations have essentially ruined our rights for choosing what we watch and play.
Remember Janet Jacksons Boob Flop at the SB a few years ago? That was first blown out of proportion from one of these organizations. And damn she had a pasty on. Regular television shows almost the whole breast except the nipples.
Big SIGH...Even though I don't find AOC a great game yet, because I know the game well enough then most, it isn't right to start censoring the RATING SYSTEM. M means mature, why they want to make it harder and place a AO rating is beyond me. F the church and these stupid organizations.
Actually, blame not just the overzealous faith-based organizations, but also America's retail industry. Especially WalMart.
WalMart and GameStop will not carry AO content games, and they make it tough to purchase even Mature games. This is less a case of legal censorship as it is a case of smart business - why potentially lose the support of America's biggest retailers when all you have to do is scale back some of the more objectionable content.
Besides, Robert Howard's Conan stories were racy but not pornographic. Somehow I don't understand why everyone expects that the Conan franchise must include hardcore sexual content. This isn't George RR Martin's Fire and Ice Triology, which deals with incest/prostitution/rape/homosexuality in rather blatant detail. (PS - I love George RR Martin, I'm just pointing out that Howard's work was not NC-17, especially by modern standards)
D&D Home Page - What Class Are You? - Build A Character - D&D Compendium
lol that's horrible,
Like I said before lets wait and see what the game contains upon release. Its not like people have missed seeing a nipple because they never experienced it in the first place.
Anyway, your right about R.E.H, If it was the Ice Triology then, yea, I would be a lil concerned about the whole content.
Honestly, who cares if they have breasts or not.
It's just a gimmick for funcom to try to draw in teenages.
LOL, I have to laugh at all the comments that range from puritans and religous zealots to the governmental warmongers.
Keep in mind that the puritans with their religeon and their backward ideas that founded this country are what make it great. The entire american hemisphere could just as easily been won by murderers and rapists. Instead of whining about censorsihp you could be spending your days hiding from murderers and rape gangs. Howd ya like that in real life?
For everyone complaining about the war and bringing our soldiers home, well we all want our boys and girls to come home safe and sound, but keep in mind theres a lot of bad people out there. Remember 9/11? If someone kills your neighbor today and you just say oh well it wasn't my family, believe me he will be back tommorow knocking on your door. For anyone who thinks that controlling the worlds oil is the governments objective, I gotta tell ya, it ain't workin. Where I live gas is anything but cheap.
Anyone who complains about censorship and not being able to see naked people online, keep in mind that 40 years ago porn was a scantily clad girl where you saw virtually nothing. If they give us topless women in video games today, then tommorow it will be total nudity and the day after you'll be getting skill points for raping a spotted zebra. Howd ya like ta see your children playing that?
So the next time you feel like bitching about any of these things try thinking a little deeper. If you do you just might find yourself saying hooray for religous ideals, hooray for puritans, hooray for censorship. Thank god I live in america!!!
Ya know, I couldn't give a shit less about this game, but I do love this post. (Not a puritan tho. I love breasts also. Mmmm)
But in all seriousness, American society is still too prudish about the wrong things IMHO. We flip out over a bare breast at the Super Bowl but don't blink an eye if a pro football player suddenly becomes a paraplegic after a bad play. Movies like the latest Die Hard are rated PG-13 not because lots of people die gruesome deaths, but because there's no hardcore swearing or sex. Meanwhile, a freaking puppet sex scene almost earns Team America a NC-17 rating.
Now, as I stated before, I don't think the Conan IP demands or even warrants the hardcore adult treatment. But adults should have the right to buy games appropriate to their age level, and retailers should feel free to carry such games in the same way they openly display Rated R movies right next to the latest Hannah Montana video. And saying that sexual content will turn humans into hormone-crazed maniacs is the same argument that the Taliban uses - only they've decided that female faces and hands are also too titillating for public consumption.
D&D Home Page - What Class Are You? - Build A Character - D&D Compendium
Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the ESRB a council that is set up by the software industry to police itself? It is kind of hard to call that sensorship, but I guess the argument could be made.
Anyhow, it isn't like the US is the only country to have limits on what can go in a game or other media. I am sure there are plenty of other laws in other countries the prohibit certain things from being in games. Maybe the US isn't the most liberated when it comes to nudity on the airwaves, but we arn't some draconian society either.
Personally I could care less to see pixilated boobies, a demons penis or get a buff from having cyber sex in a video game. It isn't like that is somehow going to make questing, raiding, PvP any less enjoyable if they aren't in the game, but to each their own I guess.
lol I'm glad I live in europe.
Well said Mark701. I completly agree. To ban the viewing of breats but allowing blood and guts splattered all over the TV or in a game just does not make sense. Just proves that America is still conservative.
Sex isnt "forbidden fruit" however showing sex in national television infront of millions of people, including children I wouldnt say is a bit natural.
The fact remains that female breasts give a sexual signal to most men, it is a sexual organ just as the genitalia. So giving sexual signals to children and underage people might be considered wrong. Its called ethics.
The point is that according to US Censors, it's fine to see someone get shot in the face (complete with brain splatter), or some other disgusting violent act of murder on National Television just about any night of the week.
Which do you think you'll personally see more in your lifetime: Breasts or Murder?
Which would you personally prefer to see in real life, right in front of your eyes, if you had to choose: Breasts or Murder?
Breasts are only sexual arousing objects because of our society. Ever see documentaries on indigenous peoples of other countries? The women almost all run around topless, but you don't see the menfolk getting aroused left and right. Why? Because their society doesn't think of breasts as sexual. They're mammary glands for feeding babies, that's it. Ethics have nothing to do with it at all.
Bottom line is that Breasts are natural things that we will all see many of in our life (men, women and even children).
Murder (the kind driven by cold blood, not a need to hunt or survive as found in every other animal species) is completely unnatural, disgusting, disturbing and something that most of us will never ever have to witness in real life.
Personally, if I had kids, I'd rather let my them watch nude scenes on TV over someone getting their head chopped off. I guarantee you the sex will disturb them infinitely less than the beheading.
I find this somewhat interesting in a few different ways.
In america primarily breasts are widely used in the forms of sexuality, and primarily for arousal.
A good point was made when it was stated that everyone will see some boobs in their lifetime but not everyone will see murder.
I think that is both partially the Key and also the Downfall of the topic in question.
By showing someone murder, you aren't entirely saying to them "Murder is good, this is normal society." In most cases ratings are put into effect for children so that when you become 13 you should know better then to shoot someone in the face, or stab someone if they take your breakfast cereal.
Ideally however, as knockers are promoted as an arousing object and, about half of the population has them, if a child of 13 were to see a TELEVISION show depicting sex and tits-uninhibited play it would more then likely give them a somewhat perverse demeanor in their future life. Basically you are showing them that when there are breasts involved, then sex is the most logical answer. It's "supposed" protection against young men completely unaware of sexual consequence. Now, in the case of murder, well obviously all murder has it's consequence, depicted in the shows they are used in. Does it make it right to show that? No. But does it show them that murder is unacceptable? To a very large extent, yes.
Now boobs can be construed in many different fashions. You can use them primarily as a sex symbol as most americans do, thereby giving them a direct meaning. (Breasts mean Sex). Or you could give them a different meaning, such as those given in paintings where naked women traditionally frolick in fields without a care in the world.
Personally, depicting a naked woman in a game solely because she can be naked is pretty much useless, of course unless its used as realism for the sake of realism. Then of course I'd suspect seeing my fair share of naked male counterparts.
Having a game using breasts primarily to enhance a sexual experience in game, leave it out, the ones who would take pleasure in that would be the truly perverted or the children that think its cool because it's "forbidden". To purchase a game that isn't intended for sexual use, and using it sexually is ridiculous.
Now if nudity is part of the storyline. (topless mermaids, naked succubi, topless female cetaurs) I can understand that, and it would be completely story enhancing, and I don't see the harm in children knowing that "hey, anytime I see a female centaur she's gunna be topless". I don't think that would be too life changing.
I'm a father of four, and I can say first hand how goofy the American public is when it comes to breasts. My wife breastfed all of our kids, although she always covered up with a blanket when in public. We still got rude stares and ignorant remarks from idiots.
When I was in the Air Force, I lived in Germany and Greece. Topless beaches and nudity on television (even commercials were the norm). Guess what? Their societies are doing just fine. I can honestly say, it was culture shock when I returned to the states.
If this is true, it is definantly ridiculous. However, I will not really listen to this kind of thing until it is officialy confirmed
I find this somewhat interesting in a few different ways.
In america primarily breasts are widely used in the forms of sexuality, and primarily for arousal.
A good point was made when it was stated that everyone will see some boobs in their lifetime but not everyone will see murder.
I think that is both partially the Key and also the Downfall of the topic in question.
By showing someone murder, you aren't entirely saying to them "Murder is good, this is normal society." In most cases ratings are put into effect for children so that when you become 13 you should know better then to shoot someone in the face, or stab someone if they take your breakfast cereal.
Ideally however, as knockers are promoted as an arousing object and, about half of the population has them, if a child of 13 were to see a TELEVISION show depicting sex and tits-uninhibited play it would more then likely give them a somewhat perverse demeanor in their future life. Basically you are showing them that when there are breasts involved, then sex is the most logical answer. It's "supposed" protection against young men completely unaware of sexual consequence. Now, in the case of murder, well obviously all murder has it's consequence, depicted in the shows they are used in. Does it make it right to show that? No. But does it show them that murder is unacceptable? To a very large extent, yes.
Now boobs can be construed in many different fashions. You can use them primarily as a sex symbol as most americans do, thereby giving them a direct meaning. (Breasts mean Sex). Or you could give them a different meaning, such as those given in paintings where naked women traditionally frolick in fields without a care in the world.
Personally, depicting a naked woman in a game solely because she can be naked is pretty much useless, of course unless its used as realism for the sake of realism. Then of course I'd suspect seeing my fair share of naked male counterparts.
Having a game using breasts primarily to enhance a sexual experience in game, leave it out, the ones who would take pleasure in that would be the truly perverted or the children that think its cool because it's "forbidden". To purchase a game that isn't intended for sexual use, and using it sexually is ridiculous.
Now if nudity is part of the storyline. (topless mermaids, naked succubi, topless female cetaurs) I can understand that, and it would be completely story enhancing, and I don't see the harm in children knowing that "hey, anytime I see a female centaur she's gunna be topless". I don't think that would be too life changing.
This is an interesting topic. About a year ago Fox News had on this debate about sex on tv etc. The average age a child sees sex or hardcore porn is age 12 on the internet. The next big thing was that the last 10yrs female girls got their periods at the average age of 10. Now for most this won't seem odd, but at the age of 10 for most young girls getting their period means that they are to hormonal. One expert on that panel said that the reason why these girls today get a period so young is because of all the sexual content they are around, making them change quicker and have more hormones then usual.This makes sense since sexual content on tv has risen considerably. It is simulated covered up sex or they get it from the internet. I think why women 20yrs+ ago got periods at an average age of 15 vs. todays average age of 10 is because the way sex is shown on tv and simulated is greater now then it was 20yrs ago.
This whole thing is interesting. I think just seeing normal boobs though in a game isn't bad, but rather the internet and tv has greater sexual provocations then any game could have. I mean a game isn't going to show people touching the breasts or having simulated sex.
I read around, and as for it being censored is far too hard to tell if it will happen or not. This is the first game I know of that changes its content based on local laws and things. The programming will be there to have it, but doesn't mean it has to be enabled. Anyone remember the whole GTA thing where it had the hidden "sexual scene". It got the rating for the game changed to AO, and changed the rules for ratings a bit. It was hidden programming not normally viewable. Later copies of game had it removed to lower the rating back to mature.
The game could use a patching system, so the game ships without the nudity being there, because its a pc game, and able to obvioulsy get online. With this run around, it could even get a teen rating by removing the more violent elements pre ship. The rating system is done before ship. Thats where the open line "Game experience may change during online play" comes into play. The descriptor for the line even mentions skins. But the game really complicates things here again. They do after release testing.
The game unlike a console game where you don't tend to pay to get online, could use an age check system sort of like adult websites. It would look at your credit card, is the age on it legal according to your area. Its good enough to get you to hot XXX action, and noone complains that I know about that. Its not like this game will show sex even.
On the whole, the rating system seems complete rubish for rating something like this. Online games in general really.
Its overly simplified to help parents decide if a game is right for their kids. I think its up to the parents, I won't ever think diffrently. They need to do the work and check out the game themselves. I don't mean check the rating, I mean play it and see if its right for their kids. I recall when they used to always say that.
http://www.esrb.org/about/news.jsp Now they go on about teaching parents about ratings. Rating education this and that. What about making a system so a game could be better previewed by parents. Give parents a day to play it. If you really wanted to precheck a game, give a way for parents to check it out and decide themselves.
My mother would actually take the extra step, buy the game, play it herself (She just loved to play games anyway as she owned her own consoles), and then she would maybe let me play. She also was the one who wanted me to get my first piercing and tattoo, and went with me to the parlors, but she didn't let me play violent games when I was underage for them.
Whole thing makes me think its backwards from how it should be, and makes me angry, want to drink and beat children. You see what You have done to me now ESRB rating board?
So, if i buy game from europian store, will it be normal version?
sdfsdfsfdsdfsfd
I think oversoul is probably right that they will have a scalable version of the game. In other words, like so many games, you will have to enter your Birth Date to "unlock" the boobs and possibly the blood. In that sense it may make everyone happy.
And we all know if you are under 18 you will not put in your wrong birthdate..... lol.
We shall wait and see I guess
no T&A?!!
well i def wont be playing the game then......... <------------(humerous sarcasm for the emos before they start typing)
can you smell that?!!...............there is nothing quite like it.....................the smell of troll in the morning............i love that smell.