Well.. I myself have been taking a sabatical from MMO's and The next one I am hopeing will succed is either AoC or Stargate.
Thing is with WoW.. it is like Magic The Gathering and CCG's.. people will always try new CCG's yet they always come back to M:tG.. which might happen with WoW. People will drop WoW, go play another game, yet come back to WoW.
With all the hype centered around AoC and WAR, I think it will be pretty funny when WotLK outsells them both *combined*.
But leaving that aside, I don't think there will be any "defining" MMO in 08. I think AoC will have a very small, nichey playerbase. WAR may get some players, particularly if they manage to fix the game from the truly abysmal state it's currently in, but hard to see it as being "defining". And as well as WotLK will likely do, an expac of an almost four year old game can't really "define" a year.
So I expect more of the same: WoW continues to dominate the market. A few games come along and get some subscribers -- similar to what happened in 2007 really.
I don't even play WoW anymore, I have no intention of restarting when WotLK comes out, and it will still be the defining moment of the genre in 2008. Either it will continue WoW's dominance (which currently defines the genre) or it will be the beginning of the end for WoW (which will REDEFINE the genre).
Nothing Age of Conan or Warhammer does could possibly be as big as WoW is right now, nor could they be as big as WoW's eventual fall (and it will fall, even Blizzard can read the writing on the wall). WotLK will define if that fall is now, or later.
For RPG that could bring the most to the genre, I give AoC the nod. They seem to be trying something very new, and it could work out well. For better or for worse, Warhammer seems to be doing what Blizzard did - taking what we already have, polishing it to a mirror sheen, and seeing what happens. They're not treading any new ground, every feature of theirs has been done.
In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own.
None will. All this hype is going to kill WAR and AOC because once there is a problem at launch with these games at there will be an avalanche of people leaving them. People will be heading back to their original mmo games. WAR is nothing more than a rehash of DAOC with horrible RVR rewards and AOC will be a huge grindfest with a nice ton of lag to go with it. I'm putting my faith in Guild Wars 2 and Bioware mmo to make a good impact in 2009 though
Have you taken a look at Aion? If you're hyped about Guild Wars 2, then this game might hold you off unti its release. It features gameplay similar to what we've heard about GW, and has the same graphical/art style.
There's obviously differences, but i'm just wondering if you've ever given Aion a look.
None will. All this hype is going to kill WAR and AOC because once there is a problem at launch with these games at there will be an avalanche of people leaving them. People will be heading back to their original mmo games. WAR is nothing more than a rehash of DAOC with horrible RVR rewards and AOC will be a huge grindfest with a nice ton of lag to go with it. I'm putting my faith in Guild Wars 2 and Bioware mmo to make a good impact in 2009 though
Have you taken a look at Aion? If you're hyped about Guild Wars 2, then this game might hold you off unti its release. It features gameplay similar to what we've heard about GW, and has the same graphical/art style.
There's obviously differences, but i'm just wondering if you've ever given Aion a look.
AION=ncsoft=asian no content games.It'll be a LONNNNNNG time before i have any faith in games coming out of ncsoft.There games belong with the rest of the F2P games.I have never seen such a horrible job of policing a game as i did when i played L2.Bots everywhere,no GM's,nothing at all to garner ncsoft any respect whatsoever.I don't even know if AION is F2P but even if it is i wouldn't give ncsoft any of my time.Square enix is the ONLY company from asia i have any respect for,even they are slow to react to cheats/botting,they make you go on a que waiting list to talk to a GM[2-4 hr wait].
Until these devs start taking there own games seriously and respect the players that are there to play fair and spend there time and hard earned cash,then they get zero respect from me.Nobody should support these type of developers ,that is the only way to get the message through.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
In my opinion, I believe Age of Conan will redefine 2008, unless Darkfall comes out in 08. Warhammer will be a great game, but only to those who can stomach it. The only reason alot of people play WoW is because other games like SWG have failed largely :-(. Wrath of the Lich King will ruin WoW just like the NGE did for SWG. It will introduce the, and I quote, "Easily attainable" class of Death Knight. Just like the release of Jedi, everyone will want to become one. It will unbalance the game long enough for large amounts of players to quit. That's where Warhammer comes in. Warhammer, IMO, is a beefed up WoW.
So all in all, AoC is for me. Open ended gameplay, skill based combat, Player Cities, etc. Hopefully it can really fulfill an old SWG Vets needs as an MMOer. If not AoC, Darkfall.
I also hope that the influx of new MMO's will slow down.
What's the problem with MMO's these days?
There's too many of them!! It is extremely difficult to kill an MMO, to the point that they are almost immune. The running costs can be made very, very low. A few hundred subscriptions keeps the money going and if some people enter a free trial, well your email address is worth a few coins [not that I'm suggesting that they all sell your email address..].
Seriously there are too many of them. It thins out the population of MMO's. It also thins out the talent to make them, after taking into account most of them work for Blizz.
What is frustrating is that there are countless posts on these forums saying " Oh yeah problem with MMO's these days is not enough crafting / too much crafting, not enough sci-fi, too many gold farmers, too little variety, not enough games with 3-foot unicorns with purple-spotted horns that talk backwards".
The REAL problem is that there are just too many of them. I think that games should have a lifespan and just naturally die. When they dip below a population for a long-time with no updates, no improvements or expansions. Then the companies should be brave enough to say, "You know what we had fun making this game, you had fun playing it for the last XX years. We are pulling the plug to work on something better.(or exiting stage left)" I'm not just talking about the obscure games that no-one really plays, not Ultima Online [despite being more than 10 years old, there have been lots of updates], but even some 'modern' ones.
Games like
Horizons
ShadowbaneRyzom
Why are people still playing them? Why? How much fun can be had by these games, only incredibly masochistic people will play them.
None will. All this hype is going to kill WAR and AOC because once there is a problem at launch with these games at there will be an avalanche of people leaving them. People will be heading back to their original mmo games. WAR is nothing more than a rehash of DAOC with horrible RVR rewards and AOC will be a huge grindfest with a nice ton of lag to go with it. I'm putting my faith in Guild Wars 2 and Bioware mmo to make a good impact in 2009 though
Have you taken a look at Aion? If you're hyped about Guild Wars 2, then this game might hold you off unti its release. It features gameplay similar to what we've heard about GW, and has the same graphical/art style.
There's obviously differences, but i'm just wondering if you've ever given Aion a look.
AION=ncsoft=asian no content games.It'll be a LONNNNNNG time before i have any faith in games coming out of ncsoft.There games belong with the rest of the F2P games.I have never seen such a horrible job of policing a game as i did when i played L2.Bots everywhere,no GM's,nothing at all to garner ncsoft any respect whatsoever.I don't even know if AION is F2P but even if it is i wouldn't give ncsoft any of my time.Square enix is the ONLY company from asia i have any respect for,even they are slow to react to cheats/botting,they make you go on a que waiting list to talk to a GM[2-4 hr wait].
Until these devs start taking there own games seriously and respect the players that are there to play fair and spend there time and hard earned cash,then they get zero respect from me.Nobody should support these type of developers ,that is the only way to get the message through.
Have you looked in to the game? I'll admit as well that previous NCSoft games had a lack of content and botters everywhere, but this is the first game that they have announced that actually looks as though it may change my outlook on them. Here's a couple reasons why:
- Severe cutbacks on grind. This isn't going to be like Lineage where you have to spend over a year playing to hit the level cap. The estimated time to hit level 50 in Aion is 1-2 months depending on your playstyle.
- The game is exploding with content. One of the Korean Closed Beta participants wrote a review, stating that there was almost endless amounts of things to do in the game besides just grinding.
- From the very beginning NCSoft has been pushing for this game to appeal to Western gamers. They've said in various interviews that it's not going to be just another Asian grinder. Everything from the quests, the grind, the environments, accessibility etc has all been developed with Western gamers in mind, not Koreans.
- There are actual storyline missions in the game (separate from ordinary quests) that have cutscenes and full voiceovers to go with them. It's the little things like this that make me believe that NCSoft is actually putting in an effort to make a great game.
- This time round NCSoft is also putting in a large effort to keep the community happy. They've adressed the beta players' concerns on their Korean website, and told us what they were going to do about them. Community coordinators are also doing there job by frequenting the Aion fansite forums and reporting back to NCSoft (I'd know, i'm a member of aionsource.com). Of course I can't speak for GMs in game, since it hasn't been released yet.
- Beautiful graphics and art direction to top it all off.
I can't really say much about bots, seeing as the game is still in its beta stages. As you may be aware of, Lineage II relied on the infamous nProtect Gameguard to keep out botter, and it pretty much failed and ruined the game. We were having a discussion about how much we hate gameguard on the aionsource forums, and Ayase (the Community coordinator) adressed the concern and has reported to the company how ineffective and hated it is. All we can do now is pray that we get something better.
I was afraid that this would hapen though. People hear the name NCSoft, and think "midless Korean grind with rampant bots everywhere". While this has been true in the past, at least give them another shot and try the Aion trial if it's ever released. I can pretty much 99% guarantee you it will not be like their previous MMOs. Just do a little research on aionsource.com, and you'll see what were' all hyped up about.
Though I realize the game will probably never become extensively popular because of the Korean generalizations.
Xenduli, I agree with you that certain games should just die off, but I completely disagree with you on your other topic. Sure, there are a BUNCH of MMO's out there. That is a problem, but the main problem is player content. Player Associations (Guilds/Clans), PvP, PAvPA. Siege combat is the new world for MMO's. Creating cities and warring against other players. Realism is what MMO's need. The feel that you are actually in the world controlling that character. I'll admit, my information on WAR is limited, and I wish I knew a bit more.
I don't have a problem with games where you just click a button and the character does the battle for you. Star Wars Galaxies was like this. It still adds strategy to the game, and one player might not use the class like the other, but this is getting old. In the new world of Halo, Counter Strike, and Call of Duty, companies need to drag in the fast paced combat. It's the way to go. I find it more fun to be on the edge of my seat in gameplay, fighting for my virtual life, than relying on pretty much mashing buttons. Anyone who plays or has played WoW will remember the n00bkins. They would literally spam one attack OVER and OVER again to beat you. Helen Keller could play a n00bkin. Hell, Teras Kasi Masters used to spam knockdown and dizzy...I did it. Then again you have other classes like Frost Mage. You really need to know how to manage your mana and what skills to use at what time. Or crafting/Buff classes. This goes to show that a game where you don't use outright skill CAN be challenging. All in all, combat is one of the building blocks of a great MMO.
On the thought of crafting/economy.Great games do need a good crafting class, and the ability for players to make items and sell them to create a REAL like economy really does set great MMO's from average ones. For one, I could never be a crafting class. I tried weaponsmith for a week in SWG...I couldn't do it. Too boring. But ther are players who did it, and did it very well. It also helped the fact that you could shop around. I loved traveling to different player cities in search of better weapons, armor, droids, ships, clothes...everything was player made. Age of Conan has player crafting, and classes that are specialized for crafting. From reading on this, it's a fairly good system. Darkfall is another game that has this.
But the best part of any MMO is cruising back to your city, and taking part in events. Just relaxing back in one of my many Mansions in SWG with my buddies was such a great thing to do. I hope that alot of MMO's in the future implement many of these, because they don't now, and that is the problem with todays MMO's.
AoC and WAR are the two that make the only chance of succes.
Warhammer is doing more of the good and that being said aiming for the mainstream population, and AoC did something very diffrent from what has been release the last few years so that will make it or break it. I personally hope AoC has succes because if they make true what they prommise then that would be godlike, if not there is still always a second chance with Warhammer.
Just look at how well each mmorpg is known. AoC and WAR are the two that make the only chance of succes. Warhammer is doing more of the good and that being said aiming for the mainstream population, and AoC did something very diffrent from what has been release the last few years so that will make it or break it. I personally hope AoC has succes because if they make true what they prommise then that would be godlike, if not there is still always a second chance with Warhammer.
You don't need millions of subscribers for success. Hell, I know an MMO that's still running that has only about 1000 subscribers I believe. As long as the game turns in a profit for the company, it can be defined as a success.
Comments
I agree its going to be WoW with its second expansion. Hero class... Possibly siege wars...
after 6 or so years, I had to change it a little...
I go for WAR.
Potbs have nothing new, its like a 1:1 copy of Voyage Century with better graphics.
AOC gets developed from Funcom and i can't stand them ^^.
2008 Will be defined by WOTLK. It will be a huge success and will expand WoW further into the mainstream.
I think WAR could push the boundaries of MMOs and take things in a slightly different direction, but it will still be in WoW's shadow.
I want WAR to be a great MMO, that I will love to play. I just don't know until I actually play it.
Well.. I myself have been taking a sabatical from MMO's and The next one I am hopeing will succed is either AoC or Stargate.
Thing is with WoW.. it is like Magic The Gathering and CCG's.. people will always try new CCG's yet they always come back to M:tG.. which might happen with WoW. People will drop WoW, go play another game, yet come back to WoW.
the two mmos I am hoping will revolutionize teh genre are TCOS and maybe WAR (if their RvR system works the way they claim it would)
With all the hype centered around AoC and WAR, I think it will be pretty funny when WotLK outsells them both *combined*.
But leaving that aside, I don't think there will be any "defining" MMO in 08. I think AoC will have a very small, nichey playerbase. WAR may get some players, particularly if they manage to fix the game from the truly abysmal state it's currently in, but hard to see it as being "defining". And as well as WotLK will likely do, an expac of an almost four year old game can't really "define" a year.
So I expect more of the same: WoW continues to dominate the market. A few games come along and get some subscribers -- similar to what happened in 2007 really.
Lets hope that wow survives, keep the wow community in wow.
Much agreed, though theres bound to be some leakage.
I don't even play WoW anymore, I have no intention of restarting when WotLK comes out, and it will still be the defining moment of the genre in 2008. Either it will continue WoW's dominance (which currently defines the genre) or it will be the beginning of the end for WoW (which will REDEFINE the genre).
Nothing Age of Conan or Warhammer does could possibly be as big as WoW is right now, nor could they be as big as WoW's eventual fall (and it will fall, even Blizzard can read the writing on the wall). WotLK will define if that fall is now, or later.
For RPG that could bring the most to the genre, I give AoC the nod. They seem to be trying something very new, and it could work out well. For better or for worse, Warhammer seems to be doing what Blizzard did - taking what we already have, polishing it to a mirror sheen, and seeing what happens. They're not treading any new ground, every feature of theirs has been done.
In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own.
-Thomas Jefferson
Have you taken a look at Aion? If you're hyped about Guild Wars 2, then this game might hold you off unti its release. It features gameplay similar to what we've heard about GW, and has the same graphical/art style.
There's obviously differences, but i'm just wondering if you've ever given Aion a look.
Have you taken a look at Aion? If you're hyped about Guild Wars 2, then this game might hold you off unti its release. It features gameplay similar to what we've heard about GW, and has the same graphical/art style.
There's obviously differences, but i'm just wondering if you've ever given Aion a look.
AION=ncsoft=asian no content games.It'll be a LONNNNNNG time before i have any faith in games coming out of ncsoft.There games belong with the rest of the F2P games.I have never seen such a horrible job of policing a game as i did when i played L2.Bots everywhere,no GM's,nothing at all to garner ncsoft any respect whatsoever.I don't even know if AION is F2P but even if it is i wouldn't give ncsoft any of my time.Square enix is the ONLY company from asia i have any respect for,even they are slow to react to cheats/botting,they make you go on a que waiting list to talk to a GM[2-4 hr wait].Until these devs start taking there own games seriously and respect the players that are there to play fair and spend there time and hard earned cash,then they get zero respect from me.Nobody should support these type of developers ,that is the only way to get the message through.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
How the hell can you define the genre when you are a clone, every mmorpg today is a clone. They are a clone of EQ2 and WoW.
Only MMORPG that can define the genre is if SOE finnally decided to make a EQ classic server, EQ classic velious and kunark defined what a mmorpg was.
In my opinion, I believe Age of Conan will redefine 2008, unless Darkfall comes out in 08. Warhammer will be a great game, but only to those who can stomach it. The only reason alot of people play WoW is because other games like SWG have failed largely :-(. Wrath of the Lich King will ruin WoW just like the NGE did for SWG. It will introduce the, and I quote, "Easily attainable" class of Death Knight. Just like the release of Jedi, everyone will want to become one. It will unbalance the game long enough for large amounts of players to quit. That's where Warhammer comes in. Warhammer, IMO, is a beefed up WoW.
So all in all, AoC is for me. Open ended gameplay, skill based combat, Player Cities, etc. Hopefully it can really fulfill an old SWG Vets needs as an MMOer. If not AoC, Darkfall.
Waiting on WAR....and AoC looks rather good.....
WAR.
I also hope that the influx of new MMO's will slow down.
What's the problem with MMO's these days?
There's too many of them!! It is extremely difficult to kill an MMO, to the point that they are almost immune. The running costs can be made very, very low. A few hundred subscriptions keeps the money going and if some people enter a free trial, well your email address is worth a few coins [not that I'm suggesting that they all sell your email address..].
Seriously there are too many of them. It thins out the population of MMO's. It also thins out the talent to make them, after taking into account most of them work for Blizz.
What is frustrating is that there are countless posts on these forums saying " Oh yeah problem with MMO's these days is not enough crafting / too much crafting, not enough sci-fi, too many gold farmers, too little variety, not enough games with 3-foot unicorns with purple-spotted horns that talk backwards".
The REAL problem is that there are just too many of them. I think that games should have a lifespan and just naturally die. When they dip below a population for a long-time with no updates, no improvements or expansions. Then the companies should be brave enough to say, "You know what we had fun making this game, you had fun playing it for the last XX years. We are pulling the plug to work on something better.(or exiting stage left)" I'm not just talking about the obscure games that no-one really plays, not Ultima Online [despite being more than 10 years old, there have been lots of updates], but even some 'modern' ones.
Games like
Why are people still playing them? Why? How much fun can be had by these games, only incredibly masochistic people will play them.
Not even listed on this site, but Space Cowboys Online is dead. http://sco.gpotato.com/
No annoying animated GIF here!
Have you taken a look at Aion? If you're hyped about Guild Wars 2, then this game might hold you off unti its release. It features gameplay similar to what we've heard about GW, and has the same graphical/art style.
There's obviously differences, but i'm just wondering if you've ever given Aion a look.
AION=ncsoft=asian no content games.It'll be a LONNNNNNG time before i have any faith in games coming out of ncsoft.There games belong with the rest of the F2P games.I have never seen such a horrible job of policing a game as i did when i played L2.Bots everywhere,no GM's,nothing at all to garner ncsoft any respect whatsoever.I don't even know if AION is F2P but even if it is i wouldn't give ncsoft any of my time.Square enix is the ONLY company from asia i have any respect for,even they are slow to react to cheats/botting,they make you go on a que waiting list to talk to a GM[2-4 hr wait].Until these devs start taking there own games seriously and respect the players that are there to play fair and spend there time and hard earned cash,then they get zero respect from me.Nobody should support these type of developers ,that is the only way to get the message through.
Have you looked in to the game? I'll admit as well that previous NCSoft games had a lack of content and botters everywhere, but this is the first game that they have announced that actually looks as though it may change my outlook on them. Here's a couple reasons why:
- Severe cutbacks on grind. This isn't going to be like Lineage where you have to spend over a year playing to hit the level cap. The estimated time to hit level 50 in Aion is 1-2 months depending on your playstyle.
- The game is exploding with content. One of the Korean Closed Beta participants wrote a review, stating that there was almost endless amounts of things to do in the game besides just grinding.
- From the very beginning NCSoft has been pushing for this game to appeal to Western gamers. They've said in various interviews that it's not going to be just another Asian grinder. Everything from the quests, the grind, the environments, accessibility etc has all been developed with Western gamers in mind, not Koreans.
- There are actual storyline missions in the game (separate from ordinary quests) that have cutscenes and full voiceovers to go with them. It's the little things like this that make me believe that NCSoft is actually putting in an effort to make a great game.
- This time round NCSoft is also putting in a large effort to keep the community happy. They've adressed the beta players' concerns on their Korean website, and told us what they were going to do about them. Community coordinators are also doing there job by frequenting the Aion fansite forums and reporting back to NCSoft (I'd know, i'm a member of aionsource.com). Of course I can't speak for GMs in game, since it hasn't been released yet.
- Beautiful graphics and art direction to top it all off.
I can't really say much about bots, seeing as the game is still in its beta stages. As you may be aware of, Lineage II relied on the infamous nProtect Gameguard to keep out botter, and it pretty much failed and ruined the game. We were having a discussion about how much we hate gameguard on the aionsource forums, and Ayase (the Community coordinator) adressed the concern and has reported to the company how ineffective and hated it is. All we can do now is pray that we get something better.
I was afraid that this would hapen though. People hear the name NCSoft, and think "midless Korean grind with rampant bots everywhere". While this has been true in the past, at least give them another shot and try the Aion trial if it's ever released. I can pretty much 99% guarantee you it will not be like their previous MMOs. Just do a little research on aionsource.com, and you'll see what were' all hyped up about.
Though I realize the game will probably never become extensively popular because of the Korean generalizations.
Xenduli, I agree with you that certain games should just die off, but I completely disagree with you on your other topic. Sure, there are a BUNCH of MMO's out there. That is a problem, but the main problem is player content. Player Associations (Guilds/Clans), PvP, PAvPA. Siege combat is the new world for MMO's. Creating cities and warring against other players. Realism is what MMO's need. The feel that you are actually in the world controlling that character. I'll admit, my information on WAR is limited, and I wish I knew a bit more.
I don't have a problem with games where you just click a button and the character does the battle for you. Star Wars Galaxies was like this. It still adds strategy to the game, and one player might not use the class like the other, but this is getting old. In the new world of Halo, Counter Strike, and Call of Duty, companies need to drag in the fast paced combat. It's the way to go. I find it more fun to be on the edge of my seat in gameplay, fighting for my virtual life, than relying on pretty much mashing buttons. Anyone who plays or has played WoW will remember the n00bkins. They would literally spam one attack OVER and OVER again to beat you. Helen Keller could play a n00bkin. Hell, Teras Kasi Masters used to spam knockdown and dizzy...I did it. Then again you have other classes like Frost Mage. You really need to know how to manage your mana and what skills to use at what time. Or crafting/Buff classes. This goes to show that a game where you don't use outright skill CAN be challenging. All in all, combat is one of the building blocks of a great MMO.
On the thought of crafting/economy.Great games do need a good crafting class, and the ability for players to make items and sell them to create a REAL like economy really does set great MMO's from average ones. For one, I could never be a crafting class. I tried weaponsmith for a week in SWG...I couldn't do it. Too boring. But ther are players who did it, and did it very well. It also helped the fact that you could shop around. I loved traveling to different player cities in search of better weapons, armor, droids, ships, clothes...everything was player made. Age of Conan has player crafting, and classes that are specialized for crafting. From reading on this, it's a fairly good system. Darkfall is another game that has this.
But the best part of any MMO is cruising back to your city, and taking part in events. Just relaxing back in one of my many Mansions in SWG with my buddies was such a great thing to do. I hope that alot of MMO's in the future implement many of these, because they don't now, and that is the problem with todays MMO's.
Just look at how well each mmorpg is known.
AoC and WAR are the two that make the only chance of succes.
Warhammer is doing more of the good and that being said aiming for the mainstream population, and AoC did something very diffrent from what has been release the last few years so that will make it or break it. I personally hope AoC has succes because if they make true what they prommise then that would be godlike, if not there is still always a second chance with Warhammer.
You don't need millions of subscribers for success. Hell, I know an MMO that's still running that has only about 1000 subscribers I believe. As long as the game turns in a profit for the company, it can be defined as a success.