Archaos I'm not going to quote you because that would just make one very long post but I do want to respond. How about I change "honest" to something else, say "forthcomming"? Would that make my point clearer? Again, I'm not saying that they're lying about anything just that they haven't been as forthcomming with information as I believe they should be. So perhaps I just used a poor choice of words. Now to your other points. I've been following this project since 2004 so I know all about the PR that they did way back when. But when you think about it, it seems so long ago that any significant piece of information, interview, chat, etc, has taken place about the game, what is someone that is finding out about the game for the first time, today tomorrow or whenever supposed to think? How are you supposed to build interest in a game or maintain interest in a game that you just found out about when the last major update was months ago or close to a year ago or however long it's been? I should probably clear something up. I don't have a problem with them going dark. If they need to do that then fine. Just give everyone a heads up. That was the point I was trying to make. Don't just go dark without saying anything about it. Don't be afraid to tell the public that you have to put the game on hold to work on the engine. Don't be afraid to post on the front page of your website that everyone is busy working on the game and no one has time to post updates. Again, it just goes back to them being more forthcomming with things. I still stick by my statement that they weren't fully preprared for this project. It's common knowledge that they put the game on hold to work on and license the game engine. If they had plenty of money when they started this project then they wouldn't have had to do that. If they had enough full time staff then they wouldn't have had to do that. They could have worked on both at the same time if they had enough money and staff. So again, I stick by that comment. They had to put the game on hold to aquire the finances to continue. That's no secret . That's common knowledge. Now that happened the first time they went dark. They're currently in a second dark period so you can't tell me that you don't at least have some doubt about their current capabilities. I admit, I don't know for sure what their current status is but after they acknowledged the reason for their first dark period but you have to at least wonder if that's not the reason for this current one. If it is then there's no way that they have enough money or staff for this project.
Unlike yourself, I believe that they are takeing the right appproach, I believe thye are of the belief that they have a winner on their hands the game will sell itself compared to the generic rubbish being rolled out at the moment. Playable but rubbish in my opinion.
Based on what I believe Simu think then going dark is fine they owe nobody anything, unless you are one of these people who think they are owed for whatever reason. Have a little faith I believe they are creating a content rich and complex MMO. Most people who come to these boards are disallusioned, I am willing to wait and if it never comes out other big players who have licenced HE will release games so either way its a win situation we will get something from Simutronics efforts.
________________________________________________________ Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
Archaos I'm not going to quote you because that would just make one very long post but I do want to respond. How about I change "honest" to something else, say "forthcomming"? Would that make my point clearer? Again, I'm not saying that they're lying about anything just that they haven't been as forthcomming with information as I believe they should be. So perhaps I just used a poor choice of words. Now to your other points. I've been following this project since 2004 so I know all about the PR that they did way back when. But when you think about it, it seems so long ago that any significant piece of information, interview, chat, etc, has taken place about the game, what is someone that is finding out about the game for the first time, today tomorrow or whenever supposed to think? How are you supposed to build interest in a game or maintain interest in a game that you just found out about when the last major update was months ago or close to a year ago or however long it's been? I should probably clear something up. I don't have a problem with them going dark. If they need to do that then fine. Just give everyone a heads up. That was the point I was trying to make. Don't just go dark without saying anything about it. Don't be afraid to tell the public that you have to put the game on hold to work on the engine. Don't be afraid to post on the front page of your website that everyone is busy working on the game and no one has time to post updates. Again, it just goes back to them being more forthcomming with things. I still stick by my statement that they weren't fully preprared for this project. It's common knowledge that they put the game on hold to work on and license the game engine. If they had plenty of money when they started this project then they wouldn't have had to do that. If they had enough full time staff then they wouldn't have had to do that. They could have worked on both at the same time if they had enough money and staff. So again, I stick by that comment. They had to put the game on hold to aquire the finances to continue. That's no secret . That's common knowledge. Now that happened the first time they went dark. They're currently in a second dark period so you can't tell me that you don't at least have some doubt about their current capabilities. I admit, I don't know for sure what their current status is but after they acknowledged the reason for their first dark period but you have to at least wonder if that's not the reason for this current one. If it is then there's no way that they have enough money or staff for this project.
Unlike yourself, I believe that they are takeing the right appproach, I believe thye are of the belief that they have a winner on their hands the game will sell itself compared to the generic rubbish being rolled out at the moment. Playable but rubbish in my opinion.
Based on what I believe Simu think then going dark is fine they owe nobody anything, unless you are one of these people who think they are owed for whatever reason. Have a little faith I believe they are creating a content rich and complex MMO. Most people who come to these boards are disallusioned, I am willing to wait and if it never comes out other big players who have licenced HE will release games so either way its a win situation we will get something from Simutronics efforts.
I said that I'm fine with them going dark if that's what they want. But at least let us know that you need to do that. Because when you go dark for several months not once but twice, without giving any notice then what are people supposed to think? That's all I'm saying.
I want this game to come out. I really do. That's why I'm being so harsh on them. I want them to get everything right. Not just the game itself, everything. Unlike their text based games I don't think this game will survive with a small player base. And if they keep doing things to turn people off from the game before it even comes out then it will be difficult for them to build a base that will be able to sustain the game.
If they hadn't released so much info so soon then I wouldn't have such a big deal with them going dark. But when you release as much info as they did as early as they did and then you stop releasing info altogether all of a sudden without any advanced notice and then it comes out later, after they've come back from their first dark period, that they had to put the game on hold to work on the engine so they could license it to aquire more financing, it can't help but raise questions about the status of the game.
Now I don't know if they knew when they started the project that they would have to do that but if they did then I think they would have been better off withholding all of that info they released so early on until after they had finshed licensing the engine. But you have to admit that by building up so much interest early on in development that they set themselves up for some backlash from fans.
There's a reason that you never hear anything from actors, directors, producers etc. when a movie is in production. Because all sorts unexpected events can take place that can lead to major changes, delays and even the cancellation. And if they released so much info so early on like Simu did then fans's expectations would be so high early on only for them to have major letdowns later once they found out about the changes or delays and they may not even want to see the movie at all after they had had so much interest in it so early on. And if the movie was cancelled then fans will have a hard time generating any interest in future movies from that producer.
Simu should have thought of themselves as producers making a movie and not a game development company making an MMO. I think treating HJ as if it were a movie and saving all the important info until it was absolutely necessary to release it to the public was the best way to go.
But that's not what they did. They chose to do a lot of PR about the game very early on. And I think once they decided to do that then they can't just go dark without at the very least announcing why they've decided to go dark. If they would have just made an official announcement that the game needed to be put on hold then at least that way they don't look like they're trying to hide stuff from us about the status of the project. You want to avoid having people speculate about something because usually that speculation is negative. I just think by going about things the way that they have they've allowed a lot of speculation to take place and they would have been better off if they had done everything they could have to avoid it.
I mean people thought for sure that this game was going to come out and it was going to be great when they first heard about it and saw the videos from E3 and read all of the information that came out so early on. But it seems like at least a year ago that anything significant about the game has been made public and now a lot of people aren't sure what to think. You want people to gain interest the closer a game comes to being released, not lose interest. We don't know when the game is being released but we do know that the interest in it right now isn't anywhere near what it was at its peak two years ago. I just think that they could have gone about all of this better, that's all.
Well, that fits, since it's exactly what they are.
Ermm.... no, not really, they've been around longer than most other MMO companies out there actually.
Yep, since 1987. Time will tell (is telling?) how well a little company that has traditionally had its games developed by essentially unpaid (and sometimes unpredictably transient) volunteer staff will translate to the truly massively multiplayer (multiple servers, more than 100,000 subscribers, etc.) graphical games.
Well, that fits, since it's exactly what they are.
Ermm.... no, not really, they've been around longer than most other MMO companies out there actually.
Yep, since 1987. Time will tell (is telling?) how well a little company that has traditionally had its games developed by essentially unpaid (and sometimes unpredictably transient) volunteer staff will translate to the truly massively multiplayer (multiple servers, more than 100,000 subscribers, etc.) graphical games.
Actually the games are developed by paid staff. Volunteers produce additional content using in and out of game tools for the game. Get your facts straight please.
"A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell
Well, that fits, since it's exactly what they are.
Ermm.... no, not really, they've been around longer than most other MMO companies out there actually.
Yep, since 1987. Time will tell (is telling?) how well a little company that has traditionally had its games developed by essentially unpaid (and sometimes unpredictably transient) volunteer staff will translate to the truly massively multiplayer (multiple servers, more than 100,000 subscribers, etc.) graphical games.
Actually the games are developed by paid staff. Volunteers produce additional content using in and out of game tools for the game. Get your facts straight please.
If you call a small payment out of the a pool for the gamemasters "getting paid", then sure, *technically* some of the gamemasters are paid a pittance compared to the numerous hours they put in each month.
When I say pittance, I mean something you couldn't possibly live comfortably on in the United States as a single source of income, and that is for an amount of hours that is easily a second full time job (40 hours) for a lot of these volunteers.
Further, the text-based games Simutronics currently fields are absolutely developed by these volunteer staffers from home. All the major core systems (combat, magic, stealth, etc.), related mechanics upgrades, new areas to adventure in, room painting, and similar that constitutes developing/expanding/refining the existing games are created and implemented by these remote staffers.
There is obviously a paid staff of Simutronics employees working in the St. Louis office, but it is mostly administrators, support staff, and technical support to keep the ship afloat. The actual development of the meat of the games (from major system design to room painting) themselves is tackled from afar by people with first priority full time day jobs that pay the bills so they can enjoy the hobby a lot of them are extremely passionate about.
To an outsider it may seem incomprehensible as a business model, but it has mostly worked out for Simutronics for years and years now. I only say mostly because there have been numerous occasions where gamemaster burn out and other issues has led to extended delays or even cancellation of promised features. It is something you just grow accustomed to as a Simutronics subscriber, that whole joke about "Simu Soon" and the reality of what that usually means.
It is just part of the risk of relying on a volunteer workforce to develop your games though. For example, the Necromancer Guild in DragonRealms was supposedly in development years ago. The gamemaster in charge was a previously well known hotshot as far as churning things out but apparently eventually hit the burn out zone a lot of them do after a few years on staff. So that was dead in the water for years. Now another group of gamemasters has picked it up and it is apparently about to finally get launched as a new guild in the game.
I'm really not intending to knock on Simutronics or the awesome volunteers who put so much of their time and energy into making their games great here. I'm actually a huge fan of their games and have been a constant customer/subscriber since 1995. These are just the realities, and some would say charms just as soon as others might say negatives, of how things have always worked with Simutronics.
I have a hard time believing that, as another tread titlb puts it, the hero will ever make the journey. This, like Darkfall, will most likely disappear into the abyss that is vaporware.
Clearly you don't know Simu. They always deliver. They just don't do it on time, which is why your first month is free.
When was the last time they delivered a fully graphical, 3D world for a subsciber base in the hundreds of thousands? And when was the last time ANY MMO didn't give the first month free?
You'll have to try a LOT harder than that to make it believable that a small, half-baked MUD company can successfully complete the jump to modern games.
Originally posted by Gules_Aspen You'll have to try a LOT harder than that to make it believable that a small, half-baked MUD company can successfully complete the jump to modern games.
You forgot to add - with a great toolset Hero Engine that some of the big game companies are licensing to build their own MMORPG's.
Such as Bioware and Bethseda as well as other companies.
So you will have to try a LOT harder than that to make your half-baked pessimism believable.
Here is a quote from Colony who are using the Hero Engine to make a 3-d space mmorpg.
The Hero Engine enabled our team to hit the ground running. After a short training period with some of the Simutronics development and support team, the Colony team was creating assets and coding in the Hero Engine scripting language almost immediately. In a very short time we had assets in - ship models and textures - as well as customized code running. Had we tried to do this by developing our own technology, my guess is that wed barely have anything on screen, wed have a dire shortage of tools, and the team would be frustrated at the lack of progress.
Our biggest challenge using the Hero Engine was that the tech was really made to do terrain-based worlds. It does them very well. However, because we are creating a space game, we needed volumetric 3D space flight. So our first tasks were to proof out the Hero Engine to see if we could use it to create a space area and for us to develop ship controls to control our character. We completed both tasks in a very short amount of time and now have ships flying, shooting, and destroying targets in 3D space. We can support multiple players already, and because of the tech, have all the backend infrastructure already working: login protocols, client-server interfacing, network handshaking, interfacing with our database.
Therefore, from here on out, we can focus on development of the game itself, rather than on the server support and backend infrastructure work.
Originally posted by Gules_Aspen Originally posted by Draq Clearly you don't know Simu. They always deliver. They just don't do it on time, which is why your first month is free.
You'll have to try a LOT harder than that to make it believable that a small, half-baked MUD company can successfully complete the jump to modern games.
LoL. Those "half-baked" MUDS have game mechanics/systems that are more complex than any 3D MMO on the market. The DR combat system alone, makes 3D MMO's feel like your playing pong all over again.
Let's not forget that Everquest has a system so similar to DikuMUD that they were actually sued over it. Turned out they coded EQ up from scratch legitimately, but the systems were similar enough for them to get subpoenaed over it.
MUDs ARE MMOs. Any jerk can make a MMO as evidenced by the vast majority of crap sandwiches on that column to the left. They aren't by any means superior to MUDs, and the only thing that makes them more complicated than a MUD is the fact that they need art.
And as far as MMOs that don't give you the first month free...try almost all of them other than World of Warcraft? COH and DAOC only have a 14 day trial. DDO only has 10 days. Unless something's changed.
When was the last time you played an MMO that wasn't just a download of a free trial? For every single western MMO that I can think of (including the ones you mentioned), if you buy the game (digital download or retail box), your first month is free. Always.
Let's not forget that Everquest has a system so similar to DikuMUD that they were actually sued over it. Turned out they coded EQ up from scratch legitimately, but the systems were similar enough for them to get subpoenaed over it.
You don't subpoena people that you sue. You subpoena third parties to a lawsuit. Are you just making stuff up as you go lol?
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Originally posted by Amathe Originally posted by Draq Let's not forget that Everquest has a system so similar to DikuMUD that they were actually sued over it. Turned out they coded EQ up from scratch legitimately, but the systems were similar enough for them to get subpoenaed over it.
You don't subpoena people that you sue. You subpoena third parties to a lawsuit. Are you just making stuff up as you go lol?
Subpoena duce tecum, loser! Are you always just talking out of your ass as you go? LoL.
Let's not forget that Everquest has a system so similar to DikuMUD that they were actually sued over it. Turned out they coded EQ up from scratch legitimately, but the systems were similar enough for them to get subpoenaed over it.
You don't subpoena people that you sue. You subpoena third parties to a lawsuit. Are you just making stuff up as you go lol?
Subpoena duce tecum, loser! Are you always just talking out of your ass as you go? LoL.
Jonny
It's ducus tecum, and that just means you require the third party witness to produce documents as well.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Let's not forget that Everquest has a system so similar to DikuMUD that they were actually sued over it. Turned out they coded EQ up from scratch legitimately, but the systems were similar enough for them to get subpoenaed over it.
You don't subpoena people that you sue. You subpoena third parties to a lawsuit. Are you just making stuff up as you go lol?
Subpoena duce tecum, loser! Are you always just talking out of your ass as you go? LoL. Jonny
It's ducus tecum, and that just means you require the third party witness to produce documents as well.
*sigh* The sad part is it's not just here. Looking at a history of your post on all of these forums, your just an ass everywhere.
You're wrong, but I don't want to hijack the thread over this issue.
Indeed, both myself and the VA court system are wrong. As usual you provide NO facts to back up your claims.
You hijacked the thread with your first response about this. Why stop now? Well besides the fact that you are yet again, wrong.
Jonny
It's because I have been having people served with hundreds of lawsuits and subpoenas for over 20 years and your quoting me Black's law dictionary isn't exactly expanding my knowledge of the issue. But if you want to go on thinking that serving a lawsuit and serving a subpoena are the same thing because you misread something online, that is your perogative.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Anyone else read Steph's article in Game Developer Magazine in the December issue? It talked about all the challenges of making a MUD an MMORPG.
Sorry your post got lost in the gigantic pissing contest going on over here right now. As to your question, no I haven't read that article. Did you? If so, care to relate anything?
Anyone else read Steph's article in Game Developer Magazine in the December issue? It talked about all the challenges of making a MUD an MMORPG.
Sorry your post got lost in the gigantic pissing contest going on over here right now. As to your question, no I haven't read that article. Did you? If so, care to relate anything?
It's the usual, no appologies needed!
I can't say everything that is in it. It's a five page article. She goes in depth on her perspective of MMORPGs, what they should be about, and how someone can try to bring all the goodies of MUDs into the graphical field and what things it just isn't possible to transport over. Now, I realize some out there say "How is this relevant? We want HJ info!" but these articles ARE HJ info. The whole engine is HJ info. A lot of other mmorpg companies talk about what their game can do and people accept that as game info, but Simu has been keeping them seperate in terms of names and so people sort of wash away this fact in their minds. Since Steph is the lead designer, it's safe to say her perspective will be in there just a tad. What she loves about a game will most likely be seen in HJ.
No, there's not much involving the name "Hero's Journey" in there. It's about making games. Still, it's a good article and does give a perspective on some of the goals of HJ.
Can't link it, but it's possible to buy back issues to Game Developer magazine. Also, those in the biz (including educators that can prove they help towards video games) can get free subscriptions. To me, buying it is worth it since this magazine has so much interesting information on the industry.
Simutronics has one of the worst business/development models. They are virtually incapable of doing anything that's beyond a medium sized project. The fact is that most of the people there do not work together, they seem to do everything solo and then try to combine it. That's why DR/GS have some amazingly fresh and enjoyable systems, but it's also the reason things like this game and the Necromancer's guild are due out 5 years after anyone will give a damn.
Their system DID work in the past, because of how MUDs were typically developed and the competition, but they are as useless as a Polaroid camera in today's world. I don't want to make Simu sound bad, they have developed some amazing stuff, but they need to update the way they do things if they want to remain competitive. It's obvious that their mini to mid sized development stuff does work and is enjoyed by most people, but any system of large size they try to due is plagued by delay after delay after delay, then it's scrapped and rebuilt, then delayed again, then the original people have all left and the new people can't understand what was being done before and they start over once again.
IF/When HJ comes out don't expect any huge content updates to ever arrive on time, they will all be delayed, in fact don't expect any huge updates period. It will all be small stuff added at a decent rate. The only real hope Simu has is that the skill/exp/level system is something that will keep players playing past the "cap" or not have a cap in place at all. If you look at stuff like EVE it's primarily their skill system that keeps accounts active long term, (and allowing you to purcahse Gamecards with in game money) vs something like EQ or WoW where people hit the cap, get the better gear then quit until the expansion.
Comments
Based on what I believe Simu think then going dark is fine they owe nobody anything, unless you are one of these people who think they are owed for whatever reason. Have a little faith I believe they are creating a content rich and complex MMO. Most people who come to these boards are disallusioned, I am willing to wait and if it never comes out other big players who have licenced HE will release games so either way its a win situation we will get something from Simutronics efforts.
________________________________________________________
Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
Based on what I believe Simu think then going dark is fine they owe nobody anything, unless you are one of these people who think they are owed for whatever reason. Have a little faith I believe they are creating a content rich and complex MMO. Most people who come to these boards are disallusioned, I am willing to wait and if it never comes out other big players who have licenced HE will release games so either way its a win situation we will get something from Simutronics efforts.
I said that I'm fine with them going dark if that's what they want. But at least let us know that you need to do that. Because when you go dark for several months not once but twice, without giving any notice then what are people supposed to think? That's all I'm saying.
I want this game to come out. I really do. That's why I'm being so harsh on them. I want them to get everything right. Not just the game itself, everything. Unlike their text based games I don't think this game will survive with a small player base. And if they keep doing things to turn people off from the game before it even comes out then it will be difficult for them to build a base that will be able to sustain the game.
If they hadn't released so much info so soon then I wouldn't have such a big deal with them going dark. But when you release as much info as they did as early as they did and then you stop releasing info altogether all of a sudden without any advanced notice and then it comes out later, after they've come back from their first dark period, that they had to put the game on hold to work on the engine so they could license it to aquire more financing, it can't help but raise questions about the status of the game.
Now I don't know if they knew when they started the project that they would have to do that but if they did then I think they would have been better off withholding all of that info they released so early on until after they had finshed licensing the engine. But you have to admit that by building up so much interest early on in development that they set themselves up for some backlash from fans.
There's a reason that you never hear anything from actors, directors, producers etc. when a movie is in production. Because all sorts unexpected events can take place that can lead to major changes, delays and even the cancellation. And if they released so much info so early on like Simu did then fans's expectations would be so high early on only for them to have major letdowns later once they found out about the changes or delays and they may not even want to see the movie at all after they had had so much interest in it so early on. And if the movie was cancelled then fans will have a hard time generating any interest in future movies from that producer.
Simu should have thought of themselves as producers making a movie and not a game development company making an MMO. I think treating HJ as if it were a movie and saving all the important info until it was absolutely necessary to release it to the public was the best way to go.
But that's not what they did. They chose to do a lot of PR about the game very early on. And I think once they decided to do that then they can't just go dark without at the very least announcing why they've decided to go dark. If they would have just made an official announcement that the game needed to be put on hold then at least that way they don't look like they're trying to hide stuff from us about the status of the project. You want to avoid having people speculate about something because usually that speculation is negative. I just think by going about things the way that they have they've allowed a lot of speculation to take place and they would have been better off if they had done everything they could have to avoid it.
I mean people thought for sure that this game was going to come out and it was going to be great when they first heard about it and saw the videos from E3 and read all of the information that came out so early on. But it seems like at least a year ago that anything significant about the game has been made public and now a lot of people aren't sure what to think. You want people to gain interest the closer a game comes to being released, not lose interest. We don't know when the game is being released but we do know that the interest in it right now isn't anywhere near what it was at its peak two years ago. I just think that they could have gone about all of this better, that's all.
Ermm.... no, not really, they've been around longer than most other MMO companies out there actually.
"A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell
Well, that fits, since it's exactly what they are.
Ermm.... no, not really, they've been around longer than most other MMO companies out there actually.
Yep, since 1987. Time will tell (is telling?) how well a little company that has traditionally had its games developed by essentially unpaid (and sometimes unpredictably transient) volunteer staff will translate to the truly massively multiplayer (multiple servers, more than 100,000 subscribers, etc.) graphical games.
Actually the games are developed by paid staff. Volunteers produce additional content using in and out of game tools for the game. Get your facts straight please.
"A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell
Ermm.... no, not really, they've been around longer than most other MMO companies out there actually.
Yep, since 1987. Time will tell (is telling?) how well a little company that has traditionally had its games developed by essentially unpaid (and sometimes unpredictably transient) volunteer staff will translate to the truly massively multiplayer (multiple servers, more than 100,000 subscribers, etc.) graphical games.
Actually the games are developed by paid staff. Volunteers produce additional content using in and out of game tools for the game. Get your facts straight please.
If you call a small payment out of the a pool for the gamemasters "getting paid", then sure, *technically* some of the gamemasters are paid a pittance compared to the numerous hours they put in each month.When I say pittance, I mean something you couldn't possibly live comfortably on in the United States as a single source of income, and that is for an amount of hours that is easily a second full time job (40 hours) for a lot of these volunteers.
Further, the text-based games Simutronics currently fields are absolutely developed by these volunteer staffers from home. All the major core systems (combat, magic, stealth, etc.), related mechanics upgrades, new areas to adventure in, room painting, and similar that constitutes developing/expanding/refining the existing games are created and implemented by these remote staffers.
There is obviously a paid staff of Simutronics employees working in the St. Louis office, but it is mostly administrators, support staff, and technical support to keep the ship afloat. The actual development of the meat of the games (from major system design to room painting) themselves is tackled from afar by people with first priority full time day jobs that pay the bills so they can enjoy the hobby a lot of them are extremely passionate about.
To an outsider it may seem incomprehensible as a business model, but it has mostly worked out for Simutronics for years and years now. I only say mostly because there have been numerous occasions where gamemaster burn out and other issues has led to extended delays or even cancellation of promised features. It is something you just grow accustomed to as a Simutronics subscriber, that whole joke about "Simu Soon" and the reality of what that usually means.
It is just part of the risk of relying on a volunteer workforce to develop your games though. For example, the Necromancer Guild in DragonRealms was supposedly in development years ago. The gamemaster in charge was a previously well known hotshot as far as churning things out but apparently eventually hit the burn out zone a lot of them do after a few years on staff. So that was dead in the water for years. Now another group of gamemasters has picked it up and it is apparently about to finally get launched as a new guild in the game.
I'm really not intending to knock on Simutronics or the awesome volunteers who put so much of their time and energy into making their games great here. I'm actually a huge fan of their games and have been a constant customer/subscriber since 1995. These are just the realities, and some would say charms just as soon as others might say negatives, of how things have always worked with Simutronics.
I have a hard time believing that, as another tread titlb puts it, the hero will ever make the journey. This, like Darkfall, will most likely disappear into the abyss that is vaporware.
Playing: BF2142
Waiting For: Jumpgate: Evolution
Played: UO, DAoC, MCO, EQ, AO, TSO, Shadowbane, Planetside, SWG, FFXI, CoH, L2, EQ2, WoW, MxO, EVE, AoC
Played 6mo+: UO, EVE
You'll have to try a LOT harder than that to make it believable that a small, half-baked MUD company can successfully complete the jump to modern games.
Bite me, Turbine.
You forgot to add - with a great toolset Hero Engine that some of the big game companies are licensing to build their own MMORPG's.
Such as Bioware and Bethseda as well as other companies.
So you will have to try a LOT harder than that to make your half-baked pessimism believable.
Here is a quote from Colony who are using the Hero Engine to make a 3-d space mmorpg.
You'll have to try a LOT harder than that to make it believable that a small, half-baked MUD company can successfully complete the jump to modern games.
LoL. Those "half-baked" MUDS have game mechanics/systems that are more complex than any 3D MMO on the market. The DR combat system alone, makes 3D MMO's feel like your playing pong all over again.
Jonny
When was the last time you played an MMO that wasn't just a download of a free trial? For every single western MMO that I can think of (including the ones you mentioned), if you buy the game (digital download or retail box), your first month is free. Always.
You don't subpoena people that you sue. You subpoena third parties to a lawsuit. Are you just making stuff up as you go lol?
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
You don't subpoena people that you sue. You subpoena third parties to a lawsuit. Are you just making stuff up as you go lol?
Subpoena duce tecum, loser! Are you always just talking out of your ass as you go? LoL.
Jonny
You don't subpoena people that you sue. You subpoena third parties to a lawsuit. Are you just making stuff up as you go lol?
Subpoena duce tecum, loser! Are you always just talking out of your ass as you go? LoL.
Jonny
It's ducus tecum, and that just means you require the third party witness to produce documents as well.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Anyone else read Steph's article in Game Developer Magazine in the December issue? It talked about all the challenges of making a MUD an MMORPG.
*sigh* The sad part is it's not just here. Looking at a history of your post on all of these forums, your just an ass everywhere.
Here is a VA doc with the spelling in for you:
http://www.courts.state.va.us/forms/attorney/DC498_0700.pdf
Here is a link so you can go buy a copy of Black's dictionary:
http://www.barristerbooks.com/index.asp?aid=adword&Product=50139&gclid=CJ3v34fvn5ECFQSOFQodRHekOQ
Or perhaps you should get yourself a Westlaw account and research some real cases.
Jonny
You're wrong, but I don't want to hijack the thread over this issue.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Indeed, both myself and the VA court system are wrong. As usual you provide NO facts to back up your claims.
You hijacked the thread with your first response about this. Why stop now? Well besides the fact that you are yet again, wrong.
Jonny
Indeed, both myself and the VA court system are wrong. As usual you provide NO facts to back up your claims.
You hijacked the thread with your first response about this. Why stop now? Well besides the fact that you are yet again, wrong.
Jonny
It's because I have been having people served with hundreds of lawsuits and subpoenas for over 20 years and your quoting me Black's law dictionary isn't exactly expanding my knowledge of the issue. But if you want to go on thinking that serving a lawsuit and serving a subpoena are the same thing because you misread something online, that is your perogative.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Sorry your post got lost in the gigantic pissing contest going on over here right now. As to your question, no I haven't read that article. Did you? If so, care to relate anything?
Sorry your post got lost in the gigantic pissing contest going on over here right now. As to your question, no I haven't read that article. Did you? If so, care to relate anything?
It's the usual, no appologies needed!I can't say everything that is in it. It's a five page article. She goes in depth on her perspective of MMORPGs, what they should be about, and how someone can try to bring all the goodies of MUDs into the graphical field and what things it just isn't possible to transport over. Now, I realize some out there say "How is this relevant? We want HJ info!" but these articles ARE HJ info. The whole engine is HJ info. A lot of other mmorpg companies talk about what their game can do and people accept that as game info, but Simu has been keeping them seperate in terms of names and so people sort of wash away this fact in their minds. Since Steph is the lead designer, it's safe to say her perspective will be in there just a tad. What she loves about a game will most likely be seen in HJ.
No, there's not much involving the name "Hero's Journey" in there. It's about making games. Still, it's a good article and does give a perspective on some of the goals of HJ.
Can't link it, but it's possible to buy back issues to Game Developer magazine. Also, those in the biz (including educators that can prove they help towards video games) can get free subscriptions. To me, buying it is worth it since this magazine has so much interesting information on the industry.
Simutronics has one of the worst business/development models. They are virtually incapable of doing anything that's beyond a medium sized project. The fact is that most of the people there do not work together, they seem to do everything solo and then try to combine it. That's why DR/GS have some amazingly fresh and enjoyable systems, but it's also the reason things like this game and the Necromancer's guild are due out 5 years after anyone will give a damn.
Their system DID work in the past, because of how MUDs were typically developed and the competition, but they are as useless as a Polaroid camera in today's world. I don't want to make Simu sound bad, they have developed some amazing stuff, but they need to update the way they do things if they want to remain competitive. It's obvious that their mini to mid sized development stuff does work and is enjoyed by most people, but any system of large size they try to due is plagued by delay after delay after delay, then it's scrapped and rebuilt, then delayed again, then the original people have all left and the new people can't understand what was being done before and they start over once again.
IF/When HJ comes out don't expect any huge content updates to ever arrive on time, they will all be delayed, in fact don't expect any huge updates period. It will all be small stuff added at a decent rate. The only real hope Simu has is that the skill/exp/level system is something that will keep players playing past the "cap" or not have a cap in place at all. If you look at stuff like EVE it's primarily their skill system that keeps accounts active long term, (and allowing you to purcahse Gamecards with in game money) vs something like EQ or WoW where people hit the cap, get the better gear then quit until the expansion.
It looks like HJ got bumped off the forums "in development" list and relegated into even further obscurity now.