It's silly cookie cutter system. You have 9 classes and each class a few options that increase your generic stats like +X critical strike with something or +X damage with some magic school etc... That's about it.
I don't understand how you can make a comment like this. you say it is a silly system that increases your generic stats, how wrong are you?
Your talents in WoW can determine whether you are excepted to a group or not. A shadow priest cannot heal in an group, whereas a holy Priest can. Same with Druids, shammy and pallies.
Ok for some classes Mages, rogues and other DPS chars this doesnt really matter as all they do is dps.
But it can have a signficant effect on the main members of a group, ie the Tank and healers.
Try to put points into endurance and wisdom only as a healer in VG and you will find out you will have hard time healing in groups just like shadow priest in WoW. The fact is in WoW as a priest you can go either Shadow talents or Holy talents. One gives bonuses to healing like (+5% healing, +5% crit healing spells, +100 healing focus, faster healing spells etc - the same as if you would points into vitality in VG), the other gives bonus to damage, some health regeneration ... just like if you would have if you put points into wisdom/int in VG.
If you max out vitality in VG. It will give you the same bonuses as these talents in VG. If you put just 200 points into vitality instead of 250 for instance, you will lose 1% crit healing and 2% healing focus, but you may spend these 50 into health getting +4% health total OR WHATEVER. This is non linear. Any class can get any kind of bonuses they want.
You're a ranger not a healer and want to improve your vitality so your healing spells will get a bonus? Fine go on, eventho you have no healing spells at all. You can still do it. You are not limite by some silly generic tree.
You see you say it matters in WoW for a healer and tank what tree they choose. In VG it doesn't? Imagine a cleric focused on solo adding points to strength, constitution and maybe dexteriry/vitality and compare it a cleric focused on healing that put all points into vitality, wisdom. How do these differ? Even more than a Shadow priest and Holy priest in WoW.
i haven't read through that many of the posts but i get the idea that people say that its a complex system because it turns 9class into 27? well how the f**k does that make it a game with true character customization? so instead of giving you 27class at the start of the game they build the other 18class into the talent system.... so a protection warrior is what you would expect and a holy paladin is what u would expect?????? im sorry to tell you but that sounds as far from customization as possible, at least EQ2 comes up with lots of Kool names and Sh*t for all of thier class's. not that i like any class based systems that is.
That link proves nothing and it didn't establish anything. It's your opinion.
You should try DDo and CoX at least the trial to change your mind. You should realize that the customization in WoW IS linear as hell. All abilities are written and everything is controlled by the limit of talent points. In DDo you have nonlinear multiclassing as well in GW. Nonlinear is also in DDo the attribute distribute (as in VG) which gives any class any kind of bonus they want. They don't need to have special talents to get +10% life, they just put points into constitution. Simple as that... And DDo is not dead, you ignorant. Just because it doesn't have milions of subs it doesn't mean it's dead. Not all games have 120$ mil for dev+marketing as WoW had so they don't rely on milions. DDo has loyal 40k base.
We covered all this in the link i posted. To re-cap WoW Talents are not linear, as there is more than one way down a specific tree, linear implys that the is only one way, so IT IS NOT linear.
They are controlled by the limit of the Talent points, i agree, but so are the attributes in VG, or do you have unlimited attribute points? I think the word you want to use here is "predetermined" not "linear". But even with "predetermined" the effect is more or less the same and is more user friendly.
Ran out of arguments? You see you say it matters in WoW for a healer and tank what tree they choose. In VG it doesn't? Imagine a cleric focused on solo adding points to strength, constitution and maybe dexteriry/vitality and compare it a cleric focused on healing that put all points into vitality, wisdom. How do these differ? Even more than a Shadow priest and Holy priest in WoW. Good enough?
Of course it matters in VG!
You are the one that is implying that it doesnt matter in WoW by trivialising the Talents sys in WOW with your comment that WoW has a silly cookie cutter system with a few options to increase your stats.
It's non linear because even as a rogue you can put points into spell critical chance or mana regeneration. And put points into strength as a necromancer. It's something between DDo and WoW where DDo is the best and WoW is the worst.
You are the one that is implying that it doesnt matter in WoW by trivialising the Talents sys in WOW with your comment that WoW has a silly cookie cutter system with a few options to increase your stats.
Okay good, let's deal on something like this: There are more ways how you can fuck up your character build in VG as in WoW.
Nevertheless you should try DDO or CoX for the best class char customization. It was you who stated WoW has best one.
Amazing. Try to put points into endurance and wisdom only as a healer in VG and you will find out you will have hard time healing in groups just like shadow priest in WoW. The fact is in WoW as a priest you can go either Shadow talents or Holy talents. One gives bonuses to healing like (+5% healing, +5% crit healing spells, +100 healing focus, faster healing spells etc - the same as if you would points into vitality in VG), the other gives bonus to damage, some health regeneration ... just like if you would have if you put points into wisdom/int in VG. If you max out vitality in VG. It will give you the same bonuses as these talents in VG. If you put just 200 points into vitality instead of 250 for instance, you will lose 1% crit healing and 2% healing focus, but you may spend these 50 into health getting +4% health total OR WHATEVER. This is non linear. Any class can get any kind of bonuses they want. You're a ranger not a healer and want to improve your vitality so your healing spells will get a bonus? Fine go on, eventho you have no healing spells at all. You can still do it. You are not limite by some silly generic tree.
That may well and good for healers, where does this leave a rogue?
You are the one that is implying that it doesnt matter in WoW by trivialising the Talents sys in WOW with your comment that WoW has a silly cookie cutter system with a few options to increase your stats.
Okay good, let's deal on something like this: There are more ways how you can fuck up your character build in VG as in WoW.
Nevertheless you should try DDO or CoX for the best class char customization. It was you who stated WoW has best one.
Yeah the so called "Cookie Cutter" system in WoW prevents you from making these kind of mistakes, ie maxing out Mana regen in a warrior/rogue. So another plus for the Wow system.
Actually, it's not even close. As of the last mod release, DDO had officially doubled it's content since launch...for free. PVP's been added, solo options have been added, as of mod 6 (due out this week...also free), crafting is being added. April will see the release of monks (free again), and the 2nd anniversary between the two is going to be huge (very well may be guild housing).
Companies don't devote that kind of development time to "dead games".
lol.. The way some people are defending these games, you would think that they put their hearts and souls into actually MAKING them.. HA!
But yea, umm... as I stated before, until a game matches Anarchy Online depth at customization there is no conversation... But of course as it is in every board on mmorpg.com its always WoW vs. Everyone else...
Hasn't anyone noticed a trend yet? In every forum there is at least ONE person from the WoW forum that will post a silly "This game sucks" thread in another forum to start some kind of heat.. And their only argument would always be "It's not as good as WoW.."...
Expand your mmo experience! STEP YOUR GAME UP! And you will see that WoW did NOT do EVERYTHING the best, you friggin conformists.. Your numbers mean shit to everyone elses tastes...
But umm yeah.. Anarchy online or EVE have the BEST customization.. period.. followed by DDO because D&D has ALWAYS allowed folks to multiclass and learn any perks they wanted...
D&D has ALWAYS allowed folks to multiclass and learn any perks they wanted...
I remember a time when there were no "perks" to learn and the only muliclass option you had was to play the "elf" class. Yes the Elf Class, not race.
I also don't think putting points into STR/DEX/CON/.... is really worthy of being any definition of character customization in any MMO I've played, especially when those same stats are pumped up by items in the game. I've never heard someone looking for a 50 strength warrior or something like that.
UO/SWG-PreCU/WoW all have very solid character customization options. Guild wars is a good twist on the whole concept also. I admit I'm not to familiar with the DDO system so no comment, but some character build walkthroughs look pretty interesting. Vanguard has great base classes, but there is no real customization between any two characters of the same class.
Well, DDO is kind of interesting, but here's a basic runthrough...
Race: In DDO, race isn't just a skin that looks different, each race is actually different. Halflings, for example, start with +1 to AC for size bonus, +1 to all saving throws, +2 to jump/listen/move silently, etc.
Class: Pretty standard, each one does it's own thing. Some get more skill points to spend per level, some get more base attack bonus, some get inherent spells, etc. With multiclassing, you can easily be a Rogue/Wizard/Bard if you wanted to though, getting the benefits of each (although because not staying specialized, losing higher level benefits).
Stats: Standard, constitution, dexterity, wisdom, intelligence, charisma, etc.
Skills: Dozens of skills, from battle oriented like intimidate to opening locks to haggling, etc. It's a point system, but also affected by your stats (each skill is affected by your bonus from a certain stat), ie. Haggling would automatically be two points better if you had 14 charisma. Additional skill points are awarded each time you level, which you assign to whatever you want.
Feats: Literally hundreds of these. Some are general (for everyone), some are class specific, some are race specific. Some are granted automatically with experience/levelling and some need to be chosen when you level. They can be anything from skill focus adding points to certain skillsets, or combat expertise to gain attack points, just about anything you can think of.
Enhancements: This is unique to DDO, but is drawn from the Action Point system in Eberron. Each level in DDO actually has 4 sublevels, and each time you achieve one you are awarded action points. These are similar to feats, some are class specific, some are race specific, etc. Some enhancements even raise your stats. This system was revamped a while back, and changed from the ability to have only 4 enhancements at a time, to being able to have as many as you have action points for...REALLY added to character customization a lot.
The problem with the talent system in WoW is that it limits your options. You have 3 talent trees with static talents. So once you have the cookie cutter version of that particular class, end of talent options.
It's far too easy to pigeon hole your class with WoW's system.
Blizzard has dumbed down the whole MMO into a very easy and tidy game that appeals to many. I actually still play and love the game, but it is far too boring and repetitive to keep me entertained.
The talent system is a perfect example of just how simple the game really is.
I played many mmorpgs and i think blizzard is the only company that really perfected the talent system. And still does, i have yet to play a mmorpg with a AA/Talent system like WoWs, because for one reason. When we play WoW from 1-40 40 talent points in there really is a TRUE change to the class it makes it feel like playing a whole class all together kind of like a new class. Once at 40 you can tell a major difference between a Prot war/ fury war/ arms war , Holy priest/Shadow priest, etc. I think talents are a must have in any mmorpg because it really allows you to be more unique to your class WoWs system is ALMOST skill based mixed with a level based system. I Tried EQ2 talent system and for some reason it just doesnt hit the spot like WoWs does.
City of Villains character customization (visual and skills both) eats talent points for breakfast.
Currently Playing: Tabula Rasa Gaming History: EQ, EQ2, SWG, EVE, Anarchy Online, CoX, GW, SRO, Rakion, Ryzom, WoW, Rappelz, Shadowbane, 9Dragons, DAoC, Dungeon Runners, DnD Online, Space Cowboy, LotRO, Vanguard, Fury, Hellgate Wanting to Play: WAR, TCoS, Darkfall, Aion
I haven't really seen a true open ended character customization system yet. Granted some games do it better than others (MMO or otherwise), but most tend to have to limit it to make the game feasible (both good and bad...). But as for WoW's talent tree system, some talents plain stink for certain trees, some trees in WoW are not even worth the trouble either PVE or PVP, especially if you're a priest, where everyone pretty much will demand that you spec yourself as a heal battery even in PVP (and raids). So, no WoW is not the best example of character customization. I would say Mass Effect is probably one of the best character customization systems so far, next to Morrowind, because in both games you can make a myriad of choices to load out your characters as you wish, which some choices are obviously dumb but the developers won't stop you (especially in Morrowind). So, when MMO developers take a similar stance as the boys at Bioware and Bethseda with their respective titles as referenced, they can make the claim they're all for character customization. On a side note, Eve Online is the *only* game I know of where you can really customize the character skill load out to fit your play style, and you don't get penalized for training new skills either other than the extra time involved, so CCP has the right to claim they do support character customization.
The best thing WoW allows is for you to respec with ease. You can try out being an ice mage or a fire mage and settle for the one you like. Your warrior can go defense for grouping and then switch to fury for PvP. In other games you are often stuck with your bad choices that you made before you knew what you were doing.
The best thing WoW allows is for you to respec with ease. You can try out being an ice mage or a fire mage and settle for the one you like. Your warrior can go defense for grouping and then switch to fury for PvP. In other games you are often stuck with your bad choices that you made before you knew what you were doing.
The OP should among other things look into the following, in no particular order: Eve Online, Ultima Online, Anarchy Online, Dark Age of Camelot, Shadowbane, Saga of Ryzom and Star Wars Galaxies. Of course you might not go back to your warcraft if you do, so consider yourself warned.
To me Eve Online loses out on how you can gain skill. I just can not get into real world time skill gain as the only way.
I completely agree~ .....In life, you don't get better at stuff by just sitting around and waiting....you learn by doing! ............though....now that I think about it....My awareness has grown.....and I have gotten smarter and stronger.... ...all becuase of time ....errr
I played many mmorpgs and i think blizzard is the only company that really perfected the talent system. And still does, i have yet to play a mmorpg with a AA/Talent system like WoWs, because for one reason. When we play WoW from 1-40 40 talent points in there really is a TRUE change to the class it makes it feel like playing a whole class all together kind of like a new class. Once at 40 you can tell a major difference between a Prot war/ fury war/ arms war , Holy priest/Shadow priest, etc. I think talents are a must have in any mmorpg because it really allows you to be more unique to your class WoWs system is ALMOST skill based mixed with a level based system. I Tried EQ2 talent system and for some reason it just doesnt hit the spot like WoWs does.
Oh really? In the old Anarchy Online I can make a healer who tank, a dps who heal, a melee class who use ranged, a support class to act as a holy trinity class(tank/doc/dps). In other words, WoW's talent tree, while ok and indeed do support some different builds, is a complete joke compared to skill based mmo's.
What skill based mmo's does is saying 'Here is a character. Build him whatever way you freaking want'. What WoW say is 'Here is a character. Build him our cookie-cutter way, oh..and take these points so you can feel special and unique while you arent'.
It is impossible to screw a character up in WoW. No matter how stupid you are, your character will do ok in all situations. Not so with skill based mmo's. You can severly screw them up if you dont plan ahead. That is true character customization. They make you go and at times, and certainly are an aquired taste. Not everyone got the patience to reroll when they fuck shit up.
The best thing WoW allows is for you to respec with ease. You can try out being an ice mage or a fire mage and settle for the one you like. Your warrior can go defense for grouping and then switch to fury for PvP. In other games you are often stuck with your bad choices that you made before you knew what you were doing.
Not played many MMO's have you?
Another great example of Moore's Law. Give people access to that much space (developers and users alike) and they'll find uses for it that you can never imagine. "640K ought to be enough for anybody" - Bill Gates 1981
Comments
I don't understand how you can make a comment like this. you say it is a silly system that increases your generic stats, how wrong are you?
Your talents in WoW can determine whether you are excepted to a group or not. A shadow priest cannot heal in an group, whereas a holy Priest can. Same with Druids, shammy and pallies.
Ok for some classes Mages, rogues and other DPS chars this doesnt really matter as all they do is dps.
But it can have a signficant effect on the main members of a group, ie the Tank and healers.
Amazing.
Try to put points into endurance and wisdom only as a healer in VG and you will find out you will have hard time healing in groups just like shadow priest in WoW. The fact is in WoW as a priest you can go either Shadow talents or Holy talents. One gives bonuses to healing like (+5% healing, +5% crit healing spells, +100 healing focus, faster healing spells etc - the same as if you would points into vitality in VG), the other gives bonus to damage, some health regeneration ... just like if you would have if you put points into wisdom/int in VG.
If you max out vitality in VG. It will give you the same bonuses as these talents in VG. If you put just 200 points into vitality instead of 250 for instance, you will lose 1% crit healing and 2% healing focus, but you may spend these 50 into health getting +4% health total OR WHATEVER. This is non linear. Any class can get any kind of bonuses they want.
You're a ranger not a healer and want to improve your vitality so your healing spells will get a bonus? Fine go on, eventho you have no healing spells at all. You can still do it. You are not limite by some silly generic tree.
REALITY CHECK
Dear Thillian,
The over whelming response to that post was the VG is not even ready to compete in its current state.
Maybe your opinion didn't change, but if you read throught the post it will be clear to any unbiased reader that VG is currently lacking.
Ran out of arguments?
You see you say it matters in WoW for a healer and tank what tree they choose. In VG it doesn't? Imagine a cleric focused on solo adding points to strength, constitution and maybe dexteriry/vitality and compare it a cleric focused on healing that put all points into vitality, wisdom. How do these differ? Even more than a Shadow priest and Holy priest in WoW.
Good enough?
REALITY CHECK
i haven't read through that many of the posts but i get the idea that people say that its a complex system because it turns 9class into 27? well how the f**k does that make it a game with true character customization? so instead of giving you 27class at the start of the game they build the other 18class into the talent system.... so a protection warrior is what you would expect and a holy paladin is what u would expect?????? im sorry to tell you but that sounds as far from customization as possible, at least EQ2 comes up with lots of Kool names and Sh*t for all of thier class's. not that i like any class based systems that is.
We covered all this in the link i posted. To re-cap WoW Talents are not linear, as there is more than one way down a specific tree, linear implys that the is only one way, so IT IS NOT linear.
They are controlled by the limit of the Talent points, i agree, but so are the attributes in VG, or do you have unlimited attribute points? I think the word you want to use here is "predetermined" not "linear". But even with "predetermined" the effect is more or less the same and is more user friendly.
"DDo is not dead " - Roger that.
You are the one that is implying that it doesnt matter in WoW by trivialising the Talents sys in WOW with your comment that WoW has a silly cookie cutter system with a few options to increase your stats.
It's non linear because even as a rogue you can put points into spell critical chance or mana regeneration. And put points into strength as a necromancer. It's something between DDo and WoW where DDo is the best and WoW is the worst.
REALITY CHECK
Nevertheless you should try DDO or CoX for the best class char customization. It was you who stated WoW has best one.
REALITY CHECK
All the Rogues are EXACTLY the same in VG!!
Nevertheless you should try DDO or CoX for the best class char customization. It was you who stated WoW has best one.
Yeah the so called "Cookie Cutter" system in WoW prevents you from making these kind of mistakes, ie maxing out Mana regen in a warrior/rogue. So another plus for the Wow system.
Actually, it's not even close. As of the last mod release, DDO had officially doubled it's content since launch...for free. PVP's been added, solo options have been added, as of mod 6 (due out this week...also free), crafting is being added. April will see the release of monks (free again), and the 2nd anniversary between the two is going to be huge (very well may be guild housing).
Companies don't devote that kind of development time to "dead games".
May want to check what Gamespy has to say...
http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/dungeons-dragons-online/845978p1.html
lol.. The way some people are defending these games, you would think that they put their hearts and souls into actually MAKING them.. HA!
But yea, umm... as I stated before, until a game matches Anarchy Online depth at customization there is no conversation... But of course as it is in every board on mmorpg.com its always WoW vs. Everyone else...
Hasn't anyone noticed a trend yet? In every forum there is at least ONE person from the WoW forum that will post a silly "This game sucks" thread in another forum to start some kind of heat.. And their only argument would always be "It's not as good as WoW.."...
Expand your mmo experience! STEP YOUR GAME UP! And you will see that WoW did NOT do EVERYTHING the best, you friggin conformists.. Your numbers mean shit to everyone elses tastes...
But umm yeah.. Anarchy online or EVE have the BEST customization.. period.. followed by DDO because D&D has ALWAYS allowed folks to multiclass and learn any perks they wanted...
I remember a time when there were no "perks" to learn and the only muliclass option you had was to play the "elf" class. Yes the Elf Class, not race.
I also don't think putting points into STR/DEX/CON/.... is really worthy of being any definition of character customization in any MMO I've played, especially when those same stats are pumped up by items in the game. I've never heard someone looking for a 50 strength warrior or something like that.
UO/SWG-PreCU/WoW all have very solid character customization options. Guild wars is a good twist on the whole concept also. I admit I'm not to familiar with the DDO system so no comment, but some character build walkthroughs look pretty interesting. Vanguard has great base classes, but there is no real customization between any two characters of the same class.
Well, DDO is kind of interesting, but here's a basic runthrough...
Race: In DDO, race isn't just a skin that looks different, each race is actually different. Halflings, for example, start with +1 to AC for size bonus, +1 to all saving throws, +2 to jump/listen/move silently, etc.
Class: Pretty standard, each one does it's own thing. Some get more skill points to spend per level, some get more base attack bonus, some get inherent spells, etc. With multiclassing, you can easily be a Rogue/Wizard/Bard if you wanted to though, getting the benefits of each (although because not staying specialized, losing higher level benefits).
Stats: Standard, constitution, dexterity, wisdom, intelligence, charisma, etc.
Skills: Dozens of skills, from battle oriented like intimidate to opening locks to haggling, etc. It's a point system, but also affected by your stats (each skill is affected by your bonus from a certain stat), ie. Haggling would automatically be two points better if you had 14 charisma. Additional skill points are awarded each time you level, which you assign to whatever you want.
Feats: Literally hundreds of these. Some are general (for everyone), some are class specific, some are race specific. Some are granted automatically with experience/levelling and some need to be chosen when you level. They can be anything from skill focus adding points to certain skillsets, or combat expertise to gain attack points, just about anything you can think of.
Enhancements: This is unique to DDO, but is drawn from the Action Point system in Eberron. Each level in DDO actually has 4 sublevels, and each time you achieve one you are awarded action points. These are similar to feats, some are class specific, some are race specific, etc. Some enhancements even raise your stats. This system was revamped a while back, and changed from the ability to have only 4 enhancements at a time, to being able to have as many as you have action points for...REALLY added to character customization a lot.
So, there you have it
The problem with the talent system in WoW is that it limits your options. You have 3 talent trees with static talents. So once you have the cookie cutter version of that particular class, end of talent options.
It's far too easy to pigeon hole your class with WoW's system.
Blizzard has dumbed down the whole MMO into a very easy and tidy game that appeals to many. I actually still play and love the game, but it is far too boring and repetitive to keep me entertained.
The talent system is a perfect example of just how simple the game really is.
City of Villains character customization (visual and skills both) eats talent points for breakfast.
Currently Playing: Tabula Rasa
Gaming History: EQ, EQ2, SWG, EVE, Anarchy Online, CoX, GW, SRO, Rakion, Ryzom, WoW, Rappelz, Shadowbane, 9Dragons, DAoC, Dungeon Runners, DnD Online, Space Cowboy, LotRO, Vanguard, Fury, Hellgate
Wanting to Play: WAR, TCoS, Darkfall, Aion
I haven't really seen a true open ended character customization system yet. Granted some games do it better than others (MMO or otherwise), but most tend to have to limit it to make the game feasible (both good and bad...). But as for WoW's talent tree system, some talents plain stink for certain trees, some trees in WoW are not even worth the trouble either PVE or PVP, especially if you're a priest, where everyone pretty much will demand that you spec yourself as a heal battery even in PVP (and raids). So, no WoW is not the best example of character customization. I would say Mass Effect is probably one of the best character customization systems so far, next to Morrowind, because in both games you can make a myriad of choices to load out your characters as you wish, which some choices are obviously dumb but the developers won't stop you (especially in Morrowind). So, when MMO developers take a similar stance as the boys at Bioware and Bethseda with their respective titles as referenced, they can make the claim they're all for character customization. On a side note, Eve Online is the *only* game I know of where you can really customize the character skill load out to fit your play style, and you don't get penalized for training new skills either other than the extra time involved, so CCP has the right to claim they do support character customization.
-- Brede
The best thing WoW allows is for you to respec with ease. You can try out being an ice mage or a fire mage and settle for the one you like. Your warrior can go defense for grouping and then switch to fury for PvP. In other games you are often stuck with your bad choices that you made before you knew what you were doing.
Haven't checked out too many other games huh?
;rofl
Does anyone know how to make a mmoRPG anymore?
The OP should among other things look into the following, in no particular order: Eve Online, Ultima Online, Anarchy Online, Dark Age of Camelot, Shadowbane, Saga of Ryzom and Star Wars Galaxies. Of course you might not go back to your warcraft if you do, so consider yourself warned.
Oh really? In the old Anarchy Online I can make a healer who tank, a dps who heal, a melee class who use ranged, a support class to act as a holy trinity class(tank/doc/dps). In other words, WoW's talent tree, while ok and indeed do support some different builds, is a complete joke compared to skill based mmo's.
What skill based mmo's does is saying 'Here is a character. Build him whatever way you freaking want'. What WoW say is 'Here is a character. Build him our cookie-cutter way, oh..and take these points so you can feel special and unique while you arent'.
It is impossible to screw a character up in WoW. No matter how stupid you are, your character will do ok in all situations. Not so with skill based mmo's. You can severly screw them up if you dont plan ahead. That is true character customization. They make you go
and 
at times, and certainly are an aquired taste. Not everyone got the patience to reroll when they fuck shit up.
...heh! I love this guy
---
Grammar nazi's. This one is for you.
Not played many MMO's have you?
Another great example of Moore's Law. Give people access to that much space (developers and users alike) and they'll find uses for it that you can never imagine. "640K ought to be enough for anybody" - Bill Gates 1981