Any MMO out there that isn't just a level grind?

lilreap2k3 · July 2004

Are there any MMO's out there right now that isn't just a level grind? Or if they have a level grind, do they have a reason to grind? The last 3 mmorpgs I have played were nothing but level grinds. And once you get to the top, the game is fun no more. I am looking for a game that will keep me playing more than a few months. Also looking for a game with lots of features besides killing and questing.

Is there such a thing?

woris · July 2004

EVE Online, maybe? Though the learning curve is quite high (to learn what you can actually do in the game

).

Napolean20 · July 2004

There isn't. If I were you I would start looking at the next gen. games like BnL and Wish.

Deihlanos · July 2004

I would suggest Earth and Beyond if the worthless corporate morons at EA hadnt killed it

EVE is the only other one I can really think of.

Of course, it also depends on the way you are playing it. If you are totally concerned about getting that next level and nothing else, or are a "powerleveller", then ANY game will be a level grind.

Levelling is important in most of these.

binks · July 2004

I'd suggest planetside, while it's less of an RPG than an FPS it still is an RPG and it's level grind isn't that bad...

----------------------------------------
MMORPG's I've played
Star Wars Galaxies:
Dackbar Ockar-Novice Weaponsmith
Played first 3 months
Planetside-Jarjarthejedi
Played 3 months starting january, 2 months starting may
Darkspace-Played 3 months starting February, starting up again august first

nooblet · July 2004

Shadowbane ''Isnt just a level grind'' you might wanna check it out. PLus theres a 15 day free trial , so you got nothing to lose

EQ2 Qeynos Guild- http://eq2imperium.proboards15.com/index.cgi

Clever_Glove · July 2004

I dont' think the SIMS has levels. You might try "A Tale in the desert" also.

Half life is MMO and isn't a level grind. Planetside and WWIIO.

You might also try a number of wonderfull PS2 or Gamecube games.

MMORPG without a level grind is just a 3d chat room.

Like or hate it, it is what it is and any different isn't this genre. It would be like asking for roller skates without wheels.

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Xzaro · July 2004

Originally posted by Clever_Glove

Half life is MMO and isn't a level grind. Planetside and WWIIO.

Half life is not an MMO.

_______________________________________________

You could play as an indian or human

Munki · July 2004

clever, thats a bad example.
an Mmorpg without the grind is like a hotdog without relish.
Its one of the parts, but you can get rid of it.

infact I pretty much garuntee the next mmorpg that gets wildly sucessful will not have a grind as a gring is just a filler for lack of things to do, to keep the player busy.

nooblet · July 2004

Originally posted by Munki

clever, thats a bad example.
an Mmorpg without the grind is like a hotdog without relish.
Its one of the parts, but you can get rid of it.
infact I pretty much garuntee the next mmorpg that gets wildly sucessful will not have a grind as a gring is just a filler for lack of things to do, to keep the player busy.

Yeah but it would have to be casual , hardcore gamers play like 8-15 hrs a day LOL. and without a grind i highly doubt ud see them subsribeing for longer then 2 months

EQ2 Qeynos Guild- http://eq2imperium.proboards15.com/index.cgi

Munki · July 2004

Thats just like "oh, humans will never fly"
or
"you cant make a talking machine"

lol, I really pitty people like that, no imagination.

But seriously nooblet, I think you will see the grind go bye bye pretty soon.
now here it comes, the phrase I have been uttering for a while now
"Its an outdated way to make up for lack of content."

Edit: removed some unecissary Nooblet bashing.

nooblet · July 2004

Originally posted by Munki

Thats just like "oh, humans will never fly"
or
"you cant make a talking machine"
lol, I really pitty people like that, no imagination.
But seriously nooblet, I think you will see the grind go bye bye pretty soon.
now here it comes, the phrase I have been uttering for a while now
"Its an outdated way to make up for lack of content."
Edit: removed some unecissary Nooblet bashing.

Humans will never fly , and machines do talk. Clam down its just a game lowie. No need to start a flame war because i said i doubt hardcore gamers will keep occupied with a no-grind game. For a 24 year old man , you sure are mature

EQ2 Qeynos Guild- http://eq2imperium.proboards15.com/index.cgi

Hype · July 2004

It's not so much about a lack of imagination, but simply approaching the problem from the wrong angle. Most people who try to solve the grind problem realize that most people, no matter what else there is to do, eventually focus on what level their on. At some point, they're going to go through all your content. You can't present a player who plays 60 hours a week new things to do all the time... mathematically, you simply do not have the capability...

The only way to be able to permanent distract players from a level grind would be to make player generated content nearly infinitely variable... which takes a lot of skill to balance in a competition-based environment... not something anyone's really tried, afaik, either...

Or just remove stat advancement altogether... regardless, this is not an easy problem... no developers are saying "Oh, I know! Let's put in a level grind!" The grind is something subjective that players see. If you know how to deal with subjective issues via programming you are clearly a 5 star game developer.

Again, there are not enough distractions from levelling for a 60 hr/wk player. That's 240 hrs of gaming a month... even with a two year headstart, you can't pull that off... not for $15 anyway...

----------------------------
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Future Game Designer
All-around bad mutha-shutchomouf

Napolean20 · July 2004

I think the only way to get rid of the grind is to make a game that is skill based. No I dont mean character skills, I mean the players skills. Think why is......Halo so great? Its because of the competition, you get to go head to head with other players and the only thing that sets you apart is how well you can play. Now I know what you guys are saying, thats planetside, but I dont mean an fps, I mean a game like all the other rpgs, sword and magic, that we can have an interactive battle system that allows us to compete and become the best without a gring, It doesnt even need to be a PvP game it can have monsters and stuff you go out and kill get new skills and what not.

Enigma · July 2004

EVE online.....not a grind all game

Munki · July 2004

bah' anywho, nooblet, that gets my point across, and yes we do fly, in planes.
that aside, You dont need a grind to keep you busy, there are other ways to accomplish the same end result, only problem is very few people are earge to persue it.

binks · July 2004

Originally posted by Napolean20

I think the only way to get rid of the grind is to make a game that is skill based. No I dont mean character skills, I mean the players skills. Think why is......Halo so great? Its because of the competition, you get to go head to head with other players and the only thing that sets you apart is how well you can play. Now I know what you guys are saying, thats planetside, but I dont mean an fps, I mean a game like all the other rpgs, sword and magic, that we can have an interactive battle system that allows us to compete and become the best without a gring, It doesnt even need to be a PvP game it can have monsters and stuff you go out and kill get new skills and what not.

the only way to make a game skill based is to make it an FPS...okay so you could also make it "use x atk then xx atk then finish with y atk" but that's not very skill based, jsut memory based...you're basicly proposing planetside in a D&D setting...

----------------------------------------
MMORPG's I've played
Star Wars Galaxies:
Dackbar Ockar-Novice Weaponsmith
Played first 3 months
Planetside-Jarjarthejedi
Played 3 months starting january, 2 months starting may
Darkspace-Played 3 months starting February, starting up again august first

Napolean20 · July 2004

Yes, that is the problem, if someone can make a game that is skill based in hand to hand/ melee / magic that comes out well, being intricate enough to keep the players interest it would be great. One thing that would allow this to happen is if the devs. looked at some of the samari games where you can get killed by one hit, instead of hp. Also if they actually knew how to engage in this kind of combat, ex- a dev who can fence, it would help lead to a game where you slash and parry base on your own reflexes. And no I dont mean planetside in a midevil setting, I mean a mmorpg where you can still craft and you do quests and you hone your skills on monsters. And, unlike planetside, I think it would be great if they used a Fable like engine where through using swords you get bigger and stronger, you get battle scars, you can tan and if you dont get bigger, mabey you use knives or magic, you can't swing the heavier weapons and are clumsey in heavy armor. Also you could age and have kids, other chars of yours, to resualt as a kind of end game. Its a near impossible game to develope but I think it would be the only solution to the level grind.

Emose · July 2004

I Love the Grind......... EnB uber 150 x6 had all the equipment and money... mawhahahahaha

EA SUCKS!!!!!!!!!

JennysMind · July 2004

One event on AC2 that I think is interesting is the Dereth Rally. If you can win 7 races in a row, you get a mount that doesn't cost anything to use.

the_traveler · July 2004

I've heard it said quite a few times that EVE isn't a grind. This seems curious to me. I only tried it for 14 days so I'm sorry if I'm missing another aspect, but how do you figure it isn't a grind? If you want a new ship (akin to wanting a new level) you have to "grind" and mine for hours on end. How is that any different?

RotAnimal · July 2004

Originally posted by the_traveler
I've heard it said quite a few times that EVE isn't a grind. This seems curious to me. I only tried it for 14 days so I'm sorry if I'm missing another aspect, but how do you figure it isn't a grind? If you want a new ship (akin to wanting a new level) you have to "grind" and mine for hours on end. How is that any different?

You don't have to grind at all. You obviously did the same mistake a lot of new players do and only mined and didn't see any other aspects of the game. Mining=grind but there are a lot of things to do other then grinding like agent missions, trading, research and productions. Of course if you do agent missions for 5 hours a day 7 days a week then that becomes a grind cause grinding is basically just doing the same thing over and over again.

To answer the original post then EVE is probably the only game out there that does not have any level grinding in it. Training is time based so a player that is online 23 hours a day gains just as much skills as one that is online a couple of hours a week. You train your skills even when offline.

Signature? I don't need no steeeenking signature!1!1!1

FeebleMan · July 2004

Originally posted by Munki
"Its an outdated way to make up for lack of content."

Amen.

One of the biggest problems in content design right now is that dinosaurs from the MUD days still think they are designing for the same old audience. What geeks that like text game enjoy is not the same as your normal guy who only has a few hours a week to enjoy. When MOGs move away from the obsessive compulsive player that likes grinding and collecting obscure trinkets and begin moving to content that tells stories and involves all the players and doesn't require making the game a full time job, thats when there will be an enormous explosion in new MOG players.

feeb

Wicked_Edge · July 2004

um... i read all the posts and I didn't see anyone mention Ultima Online. From all the mmoRPG's i've played, that's the only SKILL based mmoRPG. UO PvP > * ::::20::

---------------------------------
UO - 4 years
AC - 2 years
AC2 - 6 months
DAoC - 1 month
FFXI - 7 months
Diablo2 - 9 months
Shadowbane - Beta tested
Lineage2 - Beta tested
mmoRPG'er since October 1997

rothkaigen · July 2004

Anyone tried Neverwinter Nights? It's a smaller scaled game i think, but it is still fun. It is more story driven, and uses D&D tabletop rules. If there were only a larger community based world, I think it would be very cool for just about anyone.

Kaleigha · July 2004

I don't know if this was mentioned, (didn't read all the pages), but The Sims Online is good for that, as is There, and Second Life. Toontown MAY be good for that also...

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Any MMO out there that isn't just a level grind?

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