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MMORPGs going downhill
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Any serious PvE raider who uses all BG gear is laughed at, just like any PvPer who uses all instance/raid PvE gear is laughed it.
It's funny, that in a well designed game, the gear that you get for doing PvP is *gasp* better for PvP and the gear you get in PvE is *gasp* better for PvE...
I think you just talk a lot of trash, try to impose your viewpoint as if you are in the majority of players, which obviously you are not.
I just think posts like this, in general, are just idiotic. MMORPG have obviously never been more popular. I think the problem is that the niche group who used to consider the genre "theirs" is frustrated by the success of WoW, where now "everyone is playing".
Just look at the amount of money that is being pumped into development of MMOs right now. It is staggering. A good question though, is why hasn't anyone, and I mean anyone, been able to make a game close to how good WoW was when it came out? The games that have come out since then are truly crap. If that was the subject of the post (which or course has also been posted ad nauseum), then there would be something to discuss.
But saying they are going downhill is a joke. The overall quality of games released is of course crap, but compared to what? A handful of quality games in this genre have been released because it is still a fledgling genre.
We will see soon enough, if War & Conana are great, we should see the genre progress. But not just that, it would be reassuring to see one developer put out a decent game in the genre since Wow.
Any serious PvE raider who uses all BG gear is laughed at, just like any PvPer who uses all instance/raid PvE gear is laughed it.
It's funny, that in a well designed game, the gear that you get for doing PvP is *gasp* better for PvP and the gear you get in PvE is *gasp* better for PvE...
I think you just talk a lot of trash, try to impose your viewpoint as if you are in the majority of players, which obviously you are not.
That's simply not true.. For most classes, the gear is better than pvp gear. For maybe a warrior, PvE gear might be slightly better, but it's easier to work your way up through the PvP system for the best gear than to do it raiding instances.
Why should PvP and PvE be mutually exclusive like WoW has made it? And give them the same rewards basically for doing either?
PvE should give players a reason to participate in PvP, and vice versa.
As i've stated, wow audience = bunch of newbies who want the best gear by killing the same players over and over. The same people who couldn't compete in other MMORPGs
If you don't like mmo's then why are you still here?
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waiting for ... nothing..
From your frame of reference, they might be skilled. From mine, they are newbies. Big difference
I am not talking about skills. I am talking about preference. There is no skill involved in walking 30 min to get to where you need to go instead of teleporting instantly. Hard != more skills. Spending more time != more skills.
Plus, we are talking about entertainment here. There is no reason why a game would require a player training as hard as a marine to play.
Heh after reading all if this, im just gonna say after playing a mmo for a while its hard to get back to any newer ones, unless you are like horrably obsessed with the lore (Warhammer 40k ftw) which basicly make all the rest look pathitic and stupid, like this guy is all for ranting about, but im all for it man go right ahead. After all thats what people do when thier bored and start to think about things far to much.
From your frame of reference, they might be skilled. From mine, they are newbies. Big difference
I am not talking about skills. I am talking about preference. There is no skill involved in walking 30 min to get to where you need to go instead of teleporting instantly. Hard != more skills. Spending more time != more skills.
Plus, we are talking about entertainment here. There is no reason why a game would require a player training as hard as a marine to play.
Yeah well unfortunately for me games like WoW aren't entertainment because everything about it is too easy. Games like EQ required large scale organization, strategy, planning, etc.
I think teleporting around instantly kind of ruins the immersion of being in an MMORPG. You talk to someone and get right into a BG, or you can hearthstone around every 60 minutes.
Even if you say there is no skill required in running places, it certainly makes the game less of an MMORPG. Imagine if players could just bring up a menu and warp to any zone they want.. What would be the point of connecting areas together if that were the case? I've seen some recent MMORPGs that do exactly that..
I think doing PvE requires more skill than killing the same players over and over for honor. I guess the average WoW player couldn't handle zones like AQ, Naxx, etc. so they had to do something with BGs for the less skilled players. And since the less skilled player is the majority, they now made the PvP gear better than what the more skilled players used to get from raiding zones.
I remember on my server that the guilds were so lousy they were wiping in molten core when our guild was already attempting to kill twin emps in AQ. Every other guild on the server was stuck in MC, and another guild was in BWL. Seems kind of pointless to participate in PvE when they put in such an easy way to farm gear from killing other players.
And it's sad that MMORPGs dont require players to "train has hard as a marine". If they dumb everything down, it just won't be fun for people who enjoy challenging content.
People don't realize WoW is bad because they play it or they're addicted to it. When you overcome the addiction, and you start to think about all the things that are wrong with the game, you realize just how boring and preferenced toward newbies the game is.
It's sad that most WoW players are usually young kids who are just obsessed with having the best gear, just to have it. They don't care about challenges, and are too lazy to try and PvE. They log on, run 50 or so BGs a day, log off, and repeat. I don't get the big idea here, players should just be able to trade time for gear now? And it seems heavily biased toward younger people who can play 10 hours a day.
I wouldn't mind the BG system if WoW provided challenging PvE alternatives that offered far superior rewards for the difficulty in obtaining that gear. But they consistently make the PvP gear identical to what you get from raiding the most difficult instances.
"I realize that WoW is bad because I don't play it and I'm not addicted to it. When I overcame the addiction, I started to think abot all the things that I think are wrong with the game, and I realized just how boring and preferenced towards casual players the game is to me.
I find it sad that most WoW player are usually young kids who are just obsessed with having the best gear, just have to have it. I don't think that they care about challenges, and I think that they are too lazy to try and PvE. In my opinion, they log on, run 50 or so BG's a day, log off, and repeat. I don't get the big idea here, players should just be able to trade time for gear now? And I think it's heavily biased toward younger people who can play 10 hours a day.
I wouldn't mind the BG system if WoW provided what I considered to be challenging PvE alternatives that offered far superior rewards for the difficulty in obtaining that gear. But I think that they consistently make the PvP gear identical to waht you get from raiding in the most difficult instances. "
Now it makes more sense...
too bad you are wrong about nearly everything.
this sounds more and more like a hardcore raider who didnt like it when the welfare epics came into the game. the childlike elitist attitude,frequently calling people lazy and "newb" for not running PVE instances 5 nights a week,all the makings of the huge crowd of WoW players who dont like it when they arent the only ones with shiny purple and orange items.
The problem with MMORPGs nowadays is the players/community. Everyone is worried about getting to the next town as fast as possible to kill X mobs to finish their quest. No one actually interacts and enjoys the game anymore. The only people players interact with is their guild, and that is why everyone wants to get into a guild ASAP once they start playing the game. Don't blame the games, blame the players.
Epics for participating in a fake pvp system in a game where real pvp is discouraged
"I realize that WoW is bad because I don't play it and I'm not addicted to it. When I overcame the addiction, I started to think abot all the things that I think are wrong with the game, and I realized just how boring and preferenced towards casual players the game is to me.
I find it sad that most WoW player are usually young kids who are just obsessed with having the best gear, just have to have it. I don't think that they care about challenges, and I think that they are too lazy to try and PvE. In my opinion, they log on, run 50 or so BG's a day, log off, and repeat. I don't get the big idea here, players should just be able to trade time for gear now? And I think it's heavily biased toward younger people who can play 10 hours a day.
I wouldn't mind the BG system if WoW provided what I considered to be challenging PvE alternatives that offered far superior rewards for the difficulty in obtaining that gear. But I think that they consistently make the PvP gear identical to waht you get from raiding in the most difficult instances. "
Now it makes more sense...
too bad you are wrong about nearly everything.
You went through the trouble of rephrasing everything I said just to say "im wrong about everything".
too bad your logic is weak
Actually I went back to show you that YOUR opinion is YOUR opinion and me and 10 million others think YOUR opinion DOES NOT MATCH OURS.
But, some of your information is 100% inaccurate.
You have the whole PvE vs. PvP argument totally and inexplicably wrong.
Actually I went back to show you that YOUR opinion is YOUR opinion and me and 10 million others think YOUR opinion DOES NOT MATCH OURS.
But, some of your information is 100% inaccurate.
You have the whole PvE vs. PvP argument totally and inexplicably wrong.
No, you do. See my point? Your arguments lack any substance. It's easy to say something, it's another to back it up with facts.
Epics for participating in a fake pvp system in a game where real pvp is discouraged
Why not? There are millions of players on WOW and giving them what they want sounds like good business to me.
Players want epics. Players want to have different style of gameplay (solo, raiding, pvp without stress). So give them epics in all three style of play. This is a brilliant strategy and what makes WOW successful.
They are making ENTERTAINMENT, not a military bootcamp that requires a player to raid 100 hours a week to get somewhere.
And what is *real* PvP? Any game that allow me to kill another player is PvP. I don't see anything wrong with low stress PvP (no dead penalty). In fact, it is better for most people because they can get into it without worrying about losing hours or work.
If you want me to explain, in detail, why you are wrong about PvP gear and PvE etc. just ask, I'd love to.
Where are your facts by the way?
All I see in your posts is your opinion.
An opinion that is different then my opinion.
I respect your right to have a different opinon then me, but I am not trying to say that my opinion is fact.
You are trying to say your opinion is fact.
You are wrong. Your opinion is not fact. You have the PvE vs. PvP gear idea completely wrong, and if you want me to explain why, just ask. It's not my opinion vs. your opinion, it's the fact that you are wrong about PvP gear and it's importance in the PvE game.
Here is facts-
PvP gear - http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/item-info.xml?i=33732
Vengeful Gladiator's Plate Shoulders - Item level 146
ShouldersPlate
1369 Armor
+33 Strength
+57 Stamina
Red Socket
Yellow Socket
Socket Bonus: +3 Critical Strike Rating
Classes: Warrior
Requires Level 70
Requires personal arena rating of 2000
Equip: Improves critical strike rating by 30
Equip: Improves your resilience rating by 20
(2) Set: +35 Resilience Rating.
(4) Set: Reduces the cooldown of your Intercept ability by 5 seconds
PvE gear - http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/item-info.xml?i=30979
Onslaught Shoulderblades - Item level 146
ShouldersPlate
1369 Armor
+39 Strength
+39 Agility
+34 Stamina
Socket Bonus: +3 Critical Strike Rating
Classes: Warrior
Requires Level 70
Equip: Your attacks ignore 91 of your opponent's armor.
(2) Set: Reduces the rage cost of your Execute ability by 3.
(4) Set: Increases the damage of your Mortal Strike and Bloodthirst abilities by 5%.
So, going off of this information... PvE gear = PvP gear in item level
The PvP gear has resilience (needed PvP stat) and critical strike rating (needed for Arms Warriors)
The PvP gear has more Stamina because PvE Warrior shouldn't be taking damage if DPS'ing
Set bonuses for PvP gear help in PvP situations, Set bonuses for PvE gear help in PvE situations
Both Set Bonuses for PvP gear are completely useless in PvE
If anything, the PvE gear is better for PvP then the PvP gear is good for PvE.
Which is harder to get? Totally dependant on your playstyle. Notice the "Must have personal arena rating of 2000" in order to even get the PvP gear. That means you have to not suck.
The PvE gear is Tier 6 from Black Temple. With 24 good people in your guild, you could actually coast through and pick up the PvE shoulders in a single play session. It'd take weeks, even months to maintain the 2000 arena rating and build up enough Arena points.
So what's you argument? PvP gear is easier to get? PvP gear is better?
Both are completely false.
Battleground gear is easy to get. Battleground gear is no where near as good as Arena gear. Battleground PvP gear is comparable to Tier 4 PvE gear and heroic 5-person instance PvE gear. Which is easy to get.
You claim to like facts, here are a small (tiny actually) portion of my facts.
A lot of these new games offer nothing other than grindage and quests with a bit of pvp, maybe. People cry at how successful WoW is only because it doesn't fit their ideal MMO experience, that it caters to a wider range of video game players rather than the snobby elitists (mind you who still occupy this game). Tabula Rasa and Vanguard are prime examples, hyped up like mad but when you got down to the core of these games there was little there (mind you Vanguard has picked up in the past months).
I think companies need to work harder to earn people's money nowadays, especially when most will NOT play more than 1 MMO at a time due to the financial constraints that can rack up over time. I think most are ready to move on from WoW and are looking for the next big thing, which hopefully warhammer or AoC will be able to provide, invention + innovation = good mmo
I have overcome my anger at Blizzard over what they have done to me in the past. Back in my time you just got nuked by raiders, end of story. Us so called 'hardcore pvpers' that never raided were a joke. The raiders had all the power, the prestige, etc. Even I, one who hated raiding worst then anything, was forced to kneel to the will of the raiders so I could compete in PVP
Not anymore. The raiders only dominate their own raids according to my best friend that still plays. The pvpers do their own thing
WoW was always postive sum PVP (like persistant FPS titles). As much as I like player looting I like it only in games built for it where loot is plentiful and anytime I enter a dangerous area its a 'calculated risk'
I no longer play WoW but I respect that at least they gave pvpers a way to earn rewards. They are rewarding players for their time investment. I'm a firm believer that people shouldnt get all upset about farmers or what joe blow is doing. But rather, just have fun.
I find it funny how many people, here included, quickly stereotypes players of different mmo's.
'WoW players are immature kids with daddys cc.'
- Well, Im probably older than most of you and play, and enjoy WoW so far. My guild is composed of people 20+. We dont allow kids in at all, except the kids of the regular members, but we have an altguild we put them in. WoW's been an on/off affair for me though.
...and so on.
The OP is flat-out wrong, and I guess a little bitter. Just cause you dont like the mmo's of today, doesnt mean they suck. Maybe mmo's aint for you anymore.
I certainly look forward to some of the upcoming mmo's to waste many a late hour with. I agree though on the OP's views on WoW's pvp. It suck to high heaven, and then some.
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Grammar nazi's. This one is for you.
People don't realize WoW is bad Stop assuming you know how people live their life. You do not know those people. because they play it or they're addicted to it. When you overcome the addiction, and you start to think about all the things that are wrong with the game, you realize just how boring and preferenced toward newbies the game is.
It's sad that most WoW players are usually young kids stop making ridiculous assumptions, there is no evidence that the demographics of WoWers are 5-10 as you keep saying. Basically you are putting up wrong information as facts, that is LYING. who are just obsessed with having the best gear, just to have it. They don't care about challenges, and are too lazy to try and PvE. They log on, run 50 or so BGs a day, log off, and repeat. I don't get the big idea here, players should just be able to trade time for gear now? And it seems heavily biased toward younger people who can play 10 hours a day.
I wouldn't mind the BG system if WoW provided challenging PvE alternatives that offered far superior rewards for the difficulty in obtaining that gear. But they consistently make the PvP gear identical to what you get from raiding the most difficult instances.
Guess, from what I see, you do not care to be objective, nor do you care to be honest with your information and conclusions. You are just projecting your views into universal truth, and you keep repeating yourself like a broken record. I have enough patience trying to reason with you, and its all futile.
Well, at least, you do not insult the others here. Well ... what can I say?
Why does the op seem like a very disturbed individual? Is it just me or anyone else see the anger in the way he types stuff?
To the OPs first post, (as i didn't read this whole thread; too big)
I agreed with everything you said about WoW, most boring game ever.
edit: To OPs previous remark, i quote ->
Why should everyone be able to grind the same gear? Shouldn't gear be Challenging to get? I remember a time in MMORPG history when only one person had an item and they and their guild were revered. Now it is like every run of the mill newbie has the same stuff. THe incentive to do PVE is largely gone because of the triviality of their PvP/Arena system and how easy it is to farm gear equivalent to their toughest instances..
For me this is the reason why WoW is so popular, EVERYONE can have uber gear, that way EVERYONE appears to be successful in the game, and EVERYONE is happy.
Does anyone know how to make a mmoRPG anymore?
No, wait. Those are 95% of all asian games. Do me a favor, and type "irony" into your little translator there.