What makes Eve so great is how open ended it is. There is no set path like every other MMO out there where you create your character and you follow the quests given to you or grind kill til level cap and then you either raid pve content or you grind pvp for little to no reason whatsoever.
In Eve you decide what you want to do and you go do it. There are certain aspects of Eve that are boring to some people and those same aspects are very enjoyable to others but no way ever is that one aspect imposed upon a player as being a must do. I will compare Eve to WoW since those are the 2 games I have played the most over the years and I feel I am truly qualified to compare these two and since people like to equate popularity with quality and WoW is by far the most popular out there.
In WoW you level til you hit 70 and you either farm raid instances over and over just to gear up to move to the next raid instance to repeat the farming to move on again. Or you farm the same 4 battleground instances for honor for your gear (or your 10 arena games a week). Other than these 2 activities at 70 there is nothing to do unless you enjoy farming motes or mats for consumables. The crafting system and trade in WoW is nothing more than a gold sink and in some cases like engineering just a slight addition to your characters abilities. Now if you really enjoy raiding which I did for a short while or you enjoy WoWs mindless pvp which I also do enjoy sometimes then thats great WoW is the game for you but it still remains the only TWO choices you have at 70.
Now in Eve there are many more options to you as a player in what you do and most of them you can do almost right out of the box. Not everything is available to a new player straight away.
-mining (I find this boring as hell and will never train my mining skill but there are people who thoroughly enjoy this). There is your basic miner in a frigate or cruiser mining basic ores all the way up to full blown operations with mining barges and a stream of haulers to keep up mining the more advanced ores.
-NPC rat hunt in belts or you can run missions (this is something I do for cash but I can see why this is boring to some).
-If you enjoy the end game raiding style of other games then there are very difficult complexes that require a pretty decent group to complete.
-meaningful territorial pvp out in 0.0 if you want it or mindless pvp like the Red vs Blue war.
-crafter: the harsh death penalty of Eve guarantees player made goods are always wanted.
-market trading, investing money to make more money.
-exploration where you go out in a ship with probes for the type of things you want to find and once you find these hidden sites you can either use these sites or sell the bookmark of the site for money (types of sites are combat, salvage, archeology, and mining (asteroids and gas).
-politician / diplomat, because of the single server these roles are needed in any corp
-player run bank
-scammer (yes this is legal in Eve)
There is probably a bunch of stuff I am forgetting or not even thinking of at all but this post is already getting too long as it is. Basically you are free to do whatever you want to do and sometimes people can create new ways of playing the game that no one has ever thought of before. I think when people call Eve boring it is more because they simply just don't know what they want to do in the game. Often I see new people get the trial and immediately start mining while training learning skills for a couple of weeks and think that's all there is to the game. I will agree that Eve has a steep learning curve and can be very over whelming but once you get past it and figure out what it is you want to enjoy within Eve the game opens up into what I think is the best MMO out there at the moment in terms of overall world atmosphere. This is why there are many people out there who may not play Eve because it isn't their style of game but still are able to recognize it for why it is so good. If you are looking for a simple dungeon crawl monster beat em up game then Eve is most definately not for you, there are many other games out there that do it much better but at the same time they don't really offer much other than that.
A fully interactive 3D universe, on one server, with full on faction warfare and a real dymanic economy. Dosn't sound like a browser game to me. I think what your missing thou is EVE, IMHO, is at it's core a social game. Without teamwork and the ability of groups to work as one, the game loses much of its depth.
I have been playing MMo's for about 12 years and EVE Online is, overall, the best i have ever played.
I started playing in 2003 and played for about 2 1//2 years until it just got too much work. I was running an alliance at it became more like a job than a game. I have been playing again on and off for about 6 months.
The beauty of EVE is the freedom and the tactical PvP combat.. The battles are epic and often involve well diciplined teams of hundreds of people communicating over teamspeak in a fleet set-up. I am not a crafter/trader type of player but for this type of player eve is also awesome. there are hundreds of ships., items and modules that can be produced and traded. Everything from a piece of ammo to a player owned space station. The community and politics are also amazing. I was leader of a alliance in 2005 and the power broking between alliances was very exciting back then.
That said, lag is the worst aspect of eve. it makes large scale fleet battles (200+ players) unplayable and unfortuately when the great powers clash these numbers or more are common.
Eve has been around for 5 years now and i think it will still be around in 5 years going stronger than today. There is no other MMO around that will be around 5-10 years after launch not even WOW.
And, lol to the 'browser game' comment. The processing power required to handle large scale 3 D complex battles is staggering.
One question.... where is the dif. between a Sci-Fi Browsergame and EvE, except the 3-D graphics?
Nice attempt to Troll there EvE is just as much a Browser game as Final Fantasy or WoW for that matter.
So i ask you whats the difference between Final fantasy online and a fantasy Browser game, except the 3D graphics?
Another great example of Moore's Law. Give people access to that much space (developers and users alike) and they'll find uses for it that you can never imagine. "640K ought to be enough for anybody" - Bill Gates 1981
Originally posted by harg They have Trinity II in development at the moment so EvE will have DX10 soon.
Sorry to disappoint you, but it's "soon" as in "when it's done" as in "when the duke goes live". So, like, almost never. They have the Boostpatch, then Ambulation, then maybe Dx10. Maybe. If it's done then..
I've given it a try.. 3 times. I just can't get into it, it is so boring it's ridicilous. So I'm here to ask, what am I missing that everybody else loves so much about this game? I played through the boringness as long as I could, which was about a day and a half. It is the most boring thing I've ever played, but i can't help but onder why everybody talks so highly about it. What am I missing?
I wrote that in the general discussion some time ago (the OP was a DAoC player):
EVE has some unique features, that's why people like it:
it is, contrary to all rumors you might hear, the easiest and most balanced game to do PvP as a new player, seriously. Even in Guild Wars you need a lot of points before you can join a good team at Hall of Heroes.
EVE has no classes, no levels, no XP and no professions. All skills are trained if you use them or not, one skill at a time and if you are offline or online. No grinding for XP, never.
Imagine every spaceship available as a class like in DAoC. you can play a "tank" or a dps character, a mage (go invisible, summon people, do fancy things), support, healer or whatever. it all depends on the ship you are in. There are hundreds of different ships in EVE and they really are like hundreds of classes, professions or specializations.
the first big advantage in EVE is, that every player can, theoretically, fly every ship, do every "job" and fill every role, in PvE, PvP or trading. I have played for years and I can fly maybe 40 while using only 5.
almost all items (tens of thousands) are produced by players from materials made by players out of resources mined, collected or hunted by players.
it is not a "fake" economy like in many PvE focused games. If people stop mining a certain mineral, prices will react very dramatically. Suddenly a cruiser might cost 3 times as much as yesterday, or if there are too many people producing an item, it will drop rapidly in value.
The marked system is so comfortable and so powerful, you even have statistics over a whole year, how much an items cost at that and that day 6 months ago at which station.
EVE is only one server. Whatever your standing is with other players or player corporations ("guilds"), it will matter. If you are famous, or infamous, it WILL MATTER. Always.
EVE has over 5000 solar systems. every system has planets, those planets have moons and often one or several stations a player can visit, open an office in or (outside high sec) can conquer with his alliance.
The map of EVE is changing every day. dozens of alliances are fighting over pieces of space every second. Player owned outposts are built and destroyed all the time.
The artificial threefold empire structure in DAoC, the 3 kingdoms or empires or whatever they are called, which fight over territory is obsolet in EVE. Why? because those player owned alliances are EXACTLY what you know from DAoC, but their background story, their history and their influence areas are player written, player made and player owned. The company that makes EVE has no influence on these alliances.
(the colors are a personal choice of the map maker. a player. BoB ("Band of Brothers") is traditionally blue, but all other allainces are colored by the "super alliances" they form - the map maker calls them "political power blocks". a personal choice. Those alliance groups can depart and fight eachother from one day to another. important are the single alliances. Right now, it is basically everyone againts BoB...
all different colored and named areas belong to players. some with dozens or more systems. this map is ever changing and many alliances which were thought to be invincible are long gone. As you can see, Goonswarm, now the biggest alliance did not even exist 18 months ago on this map, and because most goonswarm players are noobs anyway, most of the players started the game pretty recently in EVE terms.
In DAoC, no faction can lose territory for ever. in EVE, those player factions, player alliances, can be killed.Like wiping out all the elves in a fantasy MMORPG. Right now, some alliances have 2000+ members. one even has over 3000 members. the vast majority of player factions have ZERO, no territory. This map only shows the behemoths of player built alliances.
Most games do not even have 3000 players per server.
If you are in for PvP, you can be a part in the big fight for space and area control.
Because it dares to be different. Not every MMO gamer likes to battle dragons and elves with spells and swords. Everyone has their own tastes. Im pretty tired of games like EQ and LOTRO so im giving this one a try. Being truly unique is a very good thing.
Originally posted by Suicider One question.... where is the dif. between a Sci-Fi Browsergame and EvE, except the 3-D graphics?
Where is the difference between a [choose: SF, Fantasy] Browsergame and [insert any MMO, matching genre, here], except the 3-D graphics?
Originally posted by darkboarder8 Originally posted by Enkindu Just thought of another good analogy: A sculptor might look at an uncut piece of very fine stone and become very excited with ideas about what he might create with it. Most people would just look at it and say "what's the big deal? It's just a boring rock. I don't get it."
Shouldn't a game be fun to begin with?
So you don't think a sculptor/artist can derive fun from his work? Being creative and seeing the possibilites of the raw material (that EVE certainly is) has it's own reward than being handed everything. By being who you are in EVE, the way you influence EVE, you work together with tens of thousands of other players to make EVE a unique virtual, but breathing world. You have to see beyond the confines that other games put on you, as EVE has none of those.
So in the end most people wait for something to happen in EVE, while they don't seem to see that it is they themself who needs to get active, for the game to being fun. To stay with the stone comparison: If you look at your chisel and hammer nothing will happen, the stone won't change by itself.
------------------------------------------------------ Originally posted by Mandolin
Designers need to move away from the old D&D level-based model which was never designed for player vs player combat in the first place.
EVE is proof that there is a dedicated niche of skill-based sandbox entusiasts, but that no sandbox game will ever be a blockbuster. This suits the sandboxers just fine.
I think the main problem why people think EVE is boring is because of the combat system.
Doing missions solo with this boring combat system is indeed very boring.
However, if you play in teams it gets better, and add pvp to that and it is not boring anymore.
Another thing is the skill system, sometimes it really sucks to have to wait 2 weeks for a certain skill to complete.
And lastly, to me, it is harder to get to know people ( strangers ) because there are no avatars.
But on the other hand EVE is the only serious MMORPG available, so unless games like Earthrise and Darkfall get released, there is no real substitute.
If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site : http://mmodata.blogspot.be/ Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online
I've only been playing for 3 days and i enjoy the game. I don't know why i haven't played it sooner. I think it just depends on your play style. The options i have in EVE are amazing. I can do w/e i want and I love that.
Depends on what you want from a game. Some like forest-nl like wow,eq etc and think that no risk pvp is hardcore pvp .. others are interested in a no-risk pve games where everywhere you`d go there is the option to toggle pvp on or off, others like to grind their way thru the game to get instant gratification. EvE isnt like that. What gets me in EvE is its pvp nature. Nothing more beautiful than to see your opponents wrecks after a succesfull engagement.
Huh, that is interesting. I do competitive Brazilian Jiu-jitsu and risk actual broken limbs/passing out from chokes and I think all the computer "hardcore" PvPers are a softcore joke. Risking pretend assets, oh noes, help me please!
I guess its all in the eye of the beholder.
Seriously there is no "risk". The reason EvE PvP is good is because there is meaning and consequence to such things. This hardcore stuff is a joke and frankly it detracts from what actually makes EvE good.
What makes Eve good is that when you kill someone it has an effect not some stupid graveyard resurection zerg. What makes it better than most games in this regard is that the players can actually make things happen because the mechanics actually have real affects.
It doesn't matter how "hardcore" your opponent is, if you bankrupt them have had a real affect. That is why EvE world PvP is the only real world PvP. RvR is fine for what is does. But WoW or EQ2 world PvP is a complete joke compared to Eve.
Do you know how many EQ2 PvP players think they are the hardest of the hardcore? Most of them. But that games PvP is a joke not because they are wusses and don't realize, but because the mechanics don't do crap for the whole point of PvPing in the world.
Its not about hardcore its about sane and well designed consequences. Eve is actually less hardcore than it used to be, but its world PvP mechanics still work just as well. Because the designers are smart enough to realize that losing skill points did jack didly poop compared to economic attribtion.
It has nothing to do with hardcore and everything to do with smart design.
I can't argue with your real-life take on Hardcore but I will argue it in the MOG'ing sense. EVE, when compared to most other MOGs *IS* hardcore. It is hardcore because it was designed to be. It is harsh and unforgiving by design and that is what makes it hardcore when compared to other games. The discussion here is Why do you like Eve? I think that, though one response is the result of the other (hardcore vs design) both responses are valid when talking about a MOG in a discussion such as this.
Depends on what you want from a game. Some like forest-nl like wow,eq etc and think that no risk pvp is hardcore pvp .. others are interested in a no-risk pve games where everywhere you`d go there is the option to toggle pvp on or off, others like to grind their way thru the game to get instant gratification. EvE isnt like that. What gets me in EvE is its pvp nature. Nothing more beautiful than to see your opponents wrecks after a succesfull engagement.
Huh, that is interesting. I do competitive Brazilian Jiu-jitsu and risk actual broken limbs/passing out from chokes and I think all the computer "hardcore" PvPers are a softcore joke. Risking pretend assets, oh noes, help me please!
I guess its all in the eye of the beholder.
Seriously there is no "risk". The reason EvE PvP is good is because there is meaning and consequence to such things. This hardcore stuff is a joke and frankly it detracts from what actually makes EvE good.
What makes Eve good is that when you kill someone it has an effect not some stupid graveyard resurection zerg. What makes it better than most games in this regard is that the players can actually make things happen because the mechanics actually have real affects.
It doesn't matter how "hardcore" your opponent is, if you bankrupt them have had a real affect. That is why EvE world PvP is the only real world PvP. RvR is fine for what is does. But WoW or EQ2 world PvP is a complete joke compared to Eve.
Do you know how many EQ2 PvP players think they are the hardest of the hardcore? Most of them. But that games PvP is a joke not because they are wusses and don't realize, but because the mechanics don't do crap for the whole point of PvPing in the world.
Its not about hardcore its about sane and well designed consequences. Eve is actually less hardcore than it used to be, but its world PvP mechanics still work just as well. Because the designers are smart enough to realize that losing skill points did jack didly poop compared to economic attribtion.
It has nothing to do with hardcore and everything to do with smart design.
So basicly since when did computer games started to be compared with RL? But if we are to play by your judgement lets assume the folowing situation "A freighter pilot is passing thru low sec with his merry freighter in wich he transports goods valueing half of his wallet fortune, for wich he spent lets say a month of gameplay". Now in this situation you want to tell me that the freighter pilot isnt assuming any risks? That, if he gets his freighter sploded from under his ass he will just say "Meh its just pixels in an internet spaceship game". If your answer is yes, pls hop in a freighter and pay me a visit so i can see it with my own eyes.
ive always thought this was the coolest game. i just think its awesome how you basically have a second life and a completely different role in it. its very neat. however, i cannot play it at all. i dont really have the patience for a game like this. id love to get into it, but there is just so much that is needed to understand. i think its an awesome 'game' but i personally couldnt play it. ive tried it, but just couldnt get into it.
The first: Depth. No other game has the sheer massive scale of depth. PvP, PvE, Manufacturing, trade, exploration, reactions, politics, ownership of systems, massive wars to gain more territory, logistics, harsh enviornment, etc etc etc...
There's so much that people still learn new things even after they've played the game for a long time. Most games, you enjoy the first 6 months or so. After that, things get repetitive. You ask yourself, whats the purpose of killing 10k more creatures, or raiding these dungeons for the ten thousandth time? It's kind of the opposite in eve. Unless you like grinding missions (which lots of people do), the first 6 months really suck, depending on your situation and playstyle. After that, once you really grasp the game and understand all of the underlining workings (IE politics, etc), get into alliance warfare, you really see the game in a different light.
The second reason is pvp: Yes, it's point and click. But, even in wars of attrition, knowing that your killing (or losing) ships will help affect the outcome of the war means something and brings a hook that other games just don't have!
The third: Intangibles. There isn't another game with politics like eve. It plays a vital role, and although daunting at first, can be really fun for those that enjoy it. There's other aspects to the game that arn't built in necessarily, but are part of the culture. And that, combined with the ability to 'put your own stamp on the game' makes this game different than any other....that's why we like it so much.
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So yeah, breaking into the game is the hard part. It takes some work and an open mind. But once you start to really understand it all, once you get in a good coporation that will help you learn things, once you get into that medium sized fleet battle without lag, you'll be hooked and won't look back.
Sadly I don't really "play" eve. I log on, train skills, log off, and research the game. Ill probally cancel once I figure the game out, and get my first killmail. =P
EvE is a very unique game. And it appeals to a very unique crowd. I agree it reminds me of the first UO days. And I really miss that sandbox style world sometimes.
Back in UO me and my friends would go kill a dragon cause we wanted to kill a dragon. In WoW you cant get anyone to kill a dragon unless it drops lewtz/epix/pixles that they want.
In EvE its the same thing. But its in space. And battleships move.... as slow as being lagged out in UO at the bank on a dial up. But thank god its a sandbox and I can succeed in the game flying nothing but frigates. Whew.
I dont like EvE but I respect it. It's diferent and do a good job in what it's designed to do. You mat not like it, but is a good product. So, if you dont like it, dont ask yourself about what are you missing of that game. This game is not for you, just that.
My main reason I love it is I can come and go, do what i want, or do nothing if I want. Being over 2 1/2 years old, I personally make a couple hundred million a month just on datacore research, and some other market investments.
PVP is incredible. If I were playing wow, it is no big deal to die, no real sense of dire need to win. I will just respawn, pay a little fee to repair, and move on. It don't quite work that way in eve. Thus being the reason why it is so fun and enthralling. You know that going into the battle you could lose what your flying, hell, you could lose it all. That knowledge makes most people fight harder. Add that to being in gank squads, or fleet ops where there are 100 of you all going after the same objective, it is no wonder why people enjoy it. Taking over space for resources, strength, or just because we want to own it, seems like a good reason to me to fight for your area.
Eve can be all you want it to be, or it can be boring as it can be. It is all about goals. There is no, go kill x mobs. It is do what you want. And by doing what you want, you need goals to do said task, and because of that, people will find it boring cause they have no idea what they want to do. I suppose it is the beauty of a sandbox MMO, but I for one would rather keep it this way then have anything linear again.
I think it's just that EVE players have lots of time to write about how great the game is on forums while other MMO players have to actually play their games. I tried the game myself and you either load up on skills while doing something else or go to pirate bases and shoot at little red x's moving around the screen.
I think it's just that EVE players have lots of time to write about how great the game is on forums while other MMO players have to actually play their games. I tried the game myself and you either load up on skills while doing something else or go to pirate bases and shoot at little red x's moving around the screen.
I made more money passively writing this than you will in an hour killing red X's
Slipcarb, you're in the 'EVE Online'-section of these forums, so don't wonder about seeing so many eve-players posting. The 'vets' (or 'fanbois', YMMV) posting here generally tend to be from the friendlier section of EVE players, which is why I like to post here as well.
And, as many have pointed out to similar posts before, EVE isn't quite so cut-and-dried as your 'review' of it states. It doesn't reveal all its features, or even most of them, immediately, and getting anywhere tends to take a while. That's not to say that you have to stick with it until your ears bleed if you're not having fun, but I do suggest giving the game a chance.
At the beginning, you may need to take smaller doses and repeat to yourself the mantra 'I can quit after 14 days, I can quit after 14 days'. If, after the trial, you're not hooked, I suggest just letting it go. I didn't like PotBS, (or WoW, or LOTRO), but I don't go around to their forums posting 'this game sux'-comments.
Comments
What makes Eve so great is how open ended it is. There is no set path like every other MMO out there where you create your character and you follow the quests given to you or grind kill til level cap and then you either raid pve content or you grind pvp for little to no reason whatsoever.
In Eve you decide what you want to do and you go do it. There are certain aspects of Eve that are boring to some people and those same aspects are very enjoyable to others but no way ever is that one aspect imposed upon a player as being a must do. I will compare Eve to WoW since those are the 2 games I have played the most over the years and I feel I am truly qualified to compare these two and since people like to equate popularity with quality and WoW is by far the most popular out there.
In WoW you level til you hit 70 and you either farm raid instances over and over just to gear up to move to the next raid instance to repeat the farming to move on again. Or you farm the same 4 battleground instances for honor for your gear (or your 10 arena games a week). Other than these 2 activities at 70 there is nothing to do unless you enjoy farming motes or mats for consumables. The crafting system and trade in WoW is nothing more than a gold sink and in some cases like engineering just a slight addition to your characters abilities. Now if you really enjoy raiding which I did for a short while or you enjoy WoWs mindless pvp which I also do enjoy sometimes then thats great WoW is the game for you but it still remains the only TWO choices you have at 70.
Now in Eve there are many more options to you as a player in what you do and most of them you can do almost right out of the box. Not everything is available to a new player straight away.
-mining (I find this boring as hell and will never train my mining skill but there are people who thoroughly enjoy this). There is your basic miner in a frigate or cruiser mining basic ores all the way up to full blown operations with mining barges and a stream of haulers to keep up mining the more advanced ores.
-NPC rat hunt in belts or you can run missions (this is something I do for cash but I can see why this is boring to some).
-If you enjoy the end game raiding style of other games then there are very difficult complexes that require a pretty decent group to complete.
-meaningful territorial pvp out in 0.0 if you want it or mindless pvp like the Red vs Blue war.
-crafter: the harsh death penalty of Eve guarantees player made goods are always wanted.
-market trading, investing money to make more money.
-exploration where you go out in a ship with probes for the type of things you want to find and once you find these hidden sites you can either use these sites or sell the bookmark of the site for money (types of sites are combat, salvage, archeology, and mining (asteroids and gas).
-politician / diplomat, because of the single server these roles are needed in any corp
-player run bank
-scammer (yes this is legal in Eve)
There is probably a bunch of stuff I am forgetting or not even thinking of at all but this post is already getting too long as it is. Basically you are free to do whatever you want to do and sometimes people can create new ways of playing the game that no one has ever thought of before. I think when people call Eve boring it is more because they simply just don't know what they want to do in the game. Often I see new people get the trial and immediately start mining while training learning skills for a couple of weeks and think that's all there is to the game. I will agree that Eve has a steep learning curve and can be very over whelming but once you get past it and figure out what it is you want to enjoy within Eve the game opens up into what I think is the best MMO out there at the moment in terms of overall world atmosphere. This is why there are many people out there who may not play Eve because it isn't their style of game but still are able to recognize it for why it is so good. If you are looking for a simple dungeon crawl monster beat em up game then Eve is most definately not for you, there are many other games out there that do it much better but at the same time they don't really offer much other than that.
A fully interactive 3D universe, on one server, with full on faction warfare and a real dymanic economy. Dosn't sound like a browser game to me. I think what your missing thou is EVE, IMHO, is at it's core a social game. Without teamwork and the ability of groups to work as one, the game loses much of its depth.
I have been playing MMo's for about 12 years and EVE Online is, overall, the best i have ever played.
I started playing in 2003 and played for about 2 1//2 years until it just got too much work. I was running an alliance at it became more like a job than a game. I have been playing again on and off for about 6 months.
The beauty of EVE is the freedom and the tactical PvP combat.. The battles are epic and often involve well diciplined teams of hundreds of people communicating over teamspeak in a fleet set-up. I am not a crafter/trader type of player but for this type of player eve is also awesome. there are hundreds of ships., items and modules that can be produced and traded. Everything from a piece of ammo to a player owned space station. The community and politics are also amazing. I was leader of a alliance in 2005 and the power broking between alliances was very exciting back then.
That said, lag is the worst aspect of eve. it makes large scale fleet battles (200+ players) unplayable and unfortuately when the great powers clash these numbers or more are common.
Eve has been around for 5 years now and i think it will still be around in 5 years going stronger than today. There is no other MMO around that will be around 5-10 years after launch not even WOW.
And, lol to the 'browser game' comment. The processing power required to handle large scale 3 D complex battles is staggering.
So i ask you whats the difference between Final fantasy online and a fantasy Browser game, except the 3D graphics?
Another great example of Moore's Law. Give people access to that much space (developers and users alike) and they'll find uses for it that you can never imagine. "640K ought to be enough for anybody" - Bill Gates 1981
Sorry to disappoint you, but it's "soon" as in "when it's done" as in "when the duke goes live".
So, like, almost never. They have the Boostpatch, then Ambulation, then maybe Dx10. Maybe. If it's done then..
I wrote that in the general discussion some time ago (the OP was a DAoC player):
EVE has some unique features, that's why people like it:
it is, contrary to all rumors you might hear, the easiest and most balanced game to do PvP as a new player, seriously. Even in Guild Wars you need a lot of points before you can join a good team at Hall of Heroes.
EVE has no classes, no levels, no XP and no professions. All skills are trained if you use them or not, one skill at a time and if you are offline or online. No grinding for XP, never.
Imagine every spaceship available as a class like in DAoC. you can play a "tank" or a dps character, a mage (go invisible, summon people, do fancy things), support, healer or whatever. it all depends on the ship you are in. There are hundreds of different ships in EVE and they really are like hundreds of classes, professions or specializations.
the first big advantage in EVE is, that every player can, theoretically, fly every ship, do every "job" and fill every role, in PvE, PvP or trading. I have played for years and I can fly maybe 40 while using only 5.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spaceships_of_EVE_Online (the picture only shows the most well known types)
almost all items (tens of thousands) are produced by players from materials made by players out of resources mined, collected or hunted by players.
it is not a "fake" economy like in many PvE focused games. If people stop mining a certain mineral, prices will react very dramatically. Suddenly a cruiser might cost 3 times as much as yesterday, or if there are too many people producing an item, it will drop rapidly in value.
The marked system is so comfortable and so powerful, you even have statistics over a whole year, how much an items cost at that and that day 6 months ago at which station.
EVE is only one server. Whatever your standing is with other players or player corporations ("guilds"), it will matter. If you are famous, or infamous, it WILL MATTER. Always.
EVE has over 5000 solar systems. every system has planets, those planets have moons and often one or several stations a player can visit, open an office in or (outside high sec) can conquer with his alliance.
The map of EVE is changing every day. dozens of alliances are fighting over pieces of space every second. Player owned outposts are built and destroyed all the time.
The artificial threefold empire structure in DAoC, the 3 kingdoms or empires or whatever they are called, which fight over territory is obsolet in EVE. Why? because those player owned alliances are EXACTLY what you know from DAoC, but their background story, their history and their influence areas are player written, player made and player owned. The company that makes EVE has no influence on these alliances.
take a look at the map of now: http://dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/CRII/Latest.jpg
(the colors are a personal choice of the map maker. a player. BoB ("Band of Brothers") is traditionally blue, but all other allainces are colored by the "super alliances" they form - the map maker calls them "political power blocks". a personal choice. Those alliance groups can depart and fight eachother from one day to another. important are the single alliances. Right now, it is basically everyone againts BoB...
this is the map 9 months ago: http://dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/crii/26.03.109.jpg
this is a much older map over one and a half year ago: dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/CRII/30.07.108.jpg
all different colored and named areas belong to players. some with dozens or more systems. this map is ever changing and many alliances which were thought to be invincible are long gone. As you can see, Goonswarm, now the biggest alliance did not even exist 18 months ago on this map, and because most goonswarm players are noobs anyway, most of the players started the game pretty recently in EVE terms.
In DAoC, no faction can lose territory for ever. in EVE, those player factions, player alliances, can be killed. Like wiping out all the elves in a fantasy MMORPG. Right now, some alliances have 2000+ members. one even has over 3000 members. the vast majority of player factions have ZERO, no territory. This map only shows the behemoths of player built alliances.
Most games do not even have 3000 players per server.
If you are in for PvP, you can be a part in the big fight for space and area control.
Because it dares to be different. Not every MMO gamer likes to battle dragons and elves with spells and swords. Everyone has their own tastes. Im pretty tired of games like EQ and LOTRO so im giving this one a try. Being truly unique is a very good thing.
So you don't think a sculptor/artist can derive fun from his work?
Being creative and seeing the possibilites of the raw material (that EVE certainly is) has it's own reward than being handed everything. By being who you are in EVE, the way you influence EVE, you work together with tens of thousands of other players to make EVE a unique virtual, but breathing world. You have to see beyond the confines that other games put on you, as EVE has none of those.
So in the end most people wait for something to happen in EVE, while they don't seem to see that it is they themself who needs to get active, for the game to being fun. To stay with the stone comparison: If you look at your chisel and hammer nothing will happen, the stone won't change by itself.
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Originally posted by Mandolin
Designers need to move away from the old D&D level-based model which was never designed for player vs player combat in the first place.
EVE is proof that there is a dedicated niche of skill-based sandbox entusiasts, but that no sandbox game will ever be a blockbuster. This suits the sandboxers just fine.
I think the main problem why people think EVE is boring is because of the combat system.
Doing missions solo with this boring combat system is indeed very boring.
However, if you play in teams it gets better, and add pvp to that and it is not boring anymore.
Another thing is the skill system, sometimes it really sucks to have to wait 2 weeks for a certain skill to complete.
And lastly, to me, it is harder to get to know people ( strangers ) because there are no avatars.
But on the other hand EVE is the only serious MMORPG available, so unless games like Earthrise and Darkfall get released, there is no real substitute.
If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site :
http://mmodata.blogspot.be/
Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online
I've only been playing for 3 days and i enjoy the game. I don't know why i haven't played it sooner. I think it just depends on your play style. The options i have in EVE are amazing. I can do w/e i want and I love that.
Huh, that is interesting. I do competitive Brazilian Jiu-jitsu and risk actual broken limbs/passing out from chokes and I think all the computer "hardcore" PvPers are a softcore joke. Risking pretend assets, oh noes, help me please!
I guess its all in the eye of the beholder.
Seriously there is no "risk". The reason EvE PvP is good is because there is meaning and consequence to such things. This hardcore stuff is a joke and frankly it detracts from what actually makes EvE good.
What makes Eve good is that when you kill someone it has an effect not some stupid graveyard resurection zerg. What makes it better than most games in this regard is that the players can actually make things happen because the mechanics actually have real affects.
It doesn't matter how "hardcore" your opponent is, if you bankrupt them have had a real affect. That is why EvE world PvP is the only real world PvP. RvR is fine for what is does. But WoW or EQ2 world PvP is a complete joke compared to Eve.
Do you know how many EQ2 PvP players think they are the hardest of the hardcore? Most of them. But that games PvP is a joke not because they are wusses and don't realize, but because the mechanics don't do crap for the whole point of PvPing in the world.
Its not about hardcore its about sane and well designed consequences. Eve is actually less hardcore than it used to be, but its world PvP mechanics still work just as well. Because the designers are smart enough to realize that losing skill points did jack didly poop compared to economic attribtion.
It has nothing to do with hardcore and everything to do with smart design.
I can't argue with your real-life take on Hardcore but I will argue it in the MOG'ing sense. EVE, when compared to most other MOGs *IS* hardcore. It is hardcore because it was designed to be. It is harsh and unforgiving by design and that is what makes it hardcore when compared to other games. The discussion here is Why do you like Eve? I think that, though one response is the result of the other (hardcore vs design) both responses are valid when talking about a MOG in a discussion such as this.
Just my opinion though...
Huh, that is interesting. I do competitive Brazilian Jiu-jitsu and risk actual broken limbs/passing out from chokes and I think all the computer "hardcore" PvPers are a softcore joke. Risking pretend assets, oh noes, help me please!
I guess its all in the eye of the beholder.
Seriously there is no "risk". The reason EvE PvP is good is because there is meaning and consequence to such things. This hardcore stuff is a joke and frankly it detracts from what actually makes EvE good.
What makes Eve good is that when you kill someone it has an effect not some stupid graveyard resurection zerg. What makes it better than most games in this regard is that the players can actually make things happen because the mechanics actually have real affects.
It doesn't matter how "hardcore" your opponent is, if you bankrupt them have had a real affect. That is why EvE world PvP is the only real world PvP. RvR is fine for what is does. But WoW or EQ2 world PvP is a complete joke compared to Eve.
Do you know how many EQ2 PvP players think they are the hardest of the hardcore? Most of them. But that games PvP is a joke not because they are wusses and don't realize, but because the mechanics don't do crap for the whole point of PvPing in the world.
Its not about hardcore its about sane and well designed consequences. Eve is actually less hardcore than it used to be, but its world PvP mechanics still work just as well. Because the designers are smart enough to realize that losing skill points did jack didly poop compared to economic attribtion.
It has nothing to do with hardcore and everything to do with smart design.
So basicly since when did computer games started to be compared with RL? But if we are to play by your judgement lets assume the folowing situation "A freighter pilot is passing thru low sec with his merry freighter in wich he transports goods valueing half of his wallet fortune, for wich he spent lets say a month of gameplay". Now in this situation you want to tell me that the freighter pilot isnt assuming any risks? That, if he gets his freighter sploded from under his ass he will just say "Meh its just pixels in an internet spaceship game". If your answer is yes, pls hop in a freighter and pay me a visit so i can see it with my own eyes.
ive always thought this was the coolest game. i just think its awesome how you basically have a second life and a completely different role in it. its very neat. however, i cannot play it at all. i dont really have the patience for a game like this. id love to get into it, but there is just so much that is needed to understand. i think its an awesome 'game' but i personally couldnt play it. ive tried it, but just couldnt get into it.
I like eve for a ton of different reasons.
The first: Depth. No other game has the sheer massive scale of depth. PvP, PvE, Manufacturing, trade, exploration, reactions, politics, ownership of systems, massive wars to gain more territory, logistics, harsh enviornment, etc etc etc...
There's so much that people still learn new things even after they've played the game for a long time. Most games, you enjoy the first 6 months or so. After that, things get repetitive. You ask yourself, whats the purpose of killing 10k more creatures, or raiding these dungeons for the ten thousandth time? It's kind of the opposite in eve. Unless you like grinding missions (which lots of people do), the first 6 months really suck, depending on your situation and playstyle. After that, once you really grasp the game and understand all of the underlining workings (IE politics, etc), get into alliance warfare, you really see the game in a different light.
The second reason is pvp: Yes, it's point and click. But, even in wars of attrition, knowing that your killing (or losing) ships will help affect the outcome of the war means something and brings a hook that other games just don't have!
The third: Intangibles. There isn't another game with politics like eve. It plays a vital role, and although daunting at first, can be really fun for those that enjoy it. There's other aspects to the game that arn't built in necessarily, but are part of the culture. And that, combined with the ability to 'put your own stamp on the game' makes this game different than any other....that's why we like it so much.
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So yeah, breaking into the game is the hard part. It takes some work and an open mind. But once you start to really understand it all, once you get in a good coporation that will help you learn things, once you get into that medium sized fleet battle without lag, you'll be hooked and won't look back.
Sadly I don't really "play" eve. I log on, train skills, log off, and research the game. Ill probally cancel once I figure the game out, and get my first killmail. =P
EvE is a very unique game. And it appeals to a very unique crowd. I agree it reminds me of the first UO days. And I really miss that sandbox style world sometimes.
Back in UO me and my friends would go kill a dragon cause we wanted to kill a dragon. In WoW you cant get anyone to kill a dragon unless it drops lewtz/epix/pixles that they want.
In EvE its the same thing. But its in space. And battleships move.... as slow as being lagged out in UO at the bank on a dial up. But thank god its a sandbox and I can succeed in the game flying nothing but frigates. Whew.
Boy that map sure makes it look like Southern Cross/GS will be pushing BoB to relocate up into the area they lost to BCE.
Of course fortunes change, but it certainly looks like SC does have a chance to "win" in strict sense over the next year.
Huge world model, Free Content Updates, Free Content Upgrades, Free Content Updates.
I just have to pay $15 a month. Beat that $OE or EA......
FoE Fist of the Empire
I dont like EvE but I respect it. It's diferent and do a good job in what it's designed to do. You mat not like it, but is a good product. So, if you dont like it, dont ask yourself about what are you missing of that game. This game is not for you, just that.
My main reason I love it is I can come and go, do what i want, or do nothing if I want. Being over 2 1/2 years old, I personally make a couple hundred million a month just on datacore research, and some other market investments.
PVP is incredible. If I were playing wow, it is no big deal to die, no real sense of dire need to win. I will just respawn, pay a little fee to repair, and move on. It don't quite work that way in eve. Thus being the reason why it is so fun and enthralling. You know that going into the battle you could lose what your flying, hell, you could lose it all. That knowledge makes most people fight harder. Add that to being in gank squads, or fleet ops where there are 100 of you all going after the same objective, it is no wonder why people enjoy it. Taking over space for resources, strength, or just because we want to own it, seems like a good reason to me to fight for your area.
Eve can be all you want it to be, or it can be boring as it can be. It is all about goals. There is no, go kill x mobs. It is do what you want. And by doing what you want, you need goals to do said task, and because of that, people will find it boring cause they have no idea what they want to do. I suppose it is the beauty of a sandbox MMO, but I for one would rather keep it this way then have anything linear again.
What do you think we all login to Eve to not have fun?
You don't have fun because either you're too young, not smart enough, or its just not for you.
I find power politics fun.
I find the economy fun.
I find looting other people's corpses fun.
Play WoW if you want PvE.
Play EvE if you want PvP.
I think it's just that EVE players have lots of time to write about how great the game is on forums while other MMO players have to actually play their games. I tried the game myself and you either load up on skills while doing something else or go to pirate bases and shoot at little red x's moving around the screen.
I made more money passively writing this than you will in an hour killing red X's
Slipcarb, you're in the 'EVE Online'-section of these forums, so don't wonder about seeing so many eve-players posting.
The 'vets' (or 'fanbois', YMMV) posting here generally tend to be from the friendlier section of EVE players, which is why I like to post here as well.
And, as many have pointed out to similar posts before, EVE isn't quite so cut-and-dried as your 'review' of it states. It doesn't reveal all its features, or even most of them, immediately, and getting anywhere tends to take a while. That's not to say that you have to stick with it until your ears bleed if you're not having fun, but I do suggest giving the game a chance.
At the beginning, you may need to take smaller doses and repeat to yourself the mantra 'I can quit after 14 days, I can quit after 14 days'. If, after the trial, you're not hooked, I suggest just letting it go. I didn't like PotBS, (or WoW, or LOTRO), but I don't go around to their forums posting 'this game sux'-comments.