PC " You need a mouse and keyboard to play RTS " Console " Why they made the game to work on a controller " PC " Well it works better on a mouse and keyboard everyone knows that " Console " Why does it matter when everyone is on the same medium " PC " Ummm ummm can't play MMORPG's on console's it will be dumbed down without a keyboard and mouse " Console " Why you can make hotkeys on controllers just like other RPG's " PC " Well everything is just better on a PC " Console " I'm sorry you were basing your e-peen on a mouse and keyboard "
thanks for the chuckle, you just summed it all up very neatly and with some great humor!
I thought you would like that . That part that's funny is how alot of good games are being ported to the PC from the console. Not the other way around. And how the fallacy of " Well if the make both it will effect the PC because they have to Dumb it down on the console, which takes time away from developing from the PC "
Awesome logic. Lets see how many MMO's can you name that have flopped in the last year that were made only for the PC. Quite a few eh ? So it would seems a game is gonna flop if its bad no matter what hardware it is on.
Well, we certainly won't be seeing many MMO's on the consoles available to consumers today. Not going to happen. BTW the xbox version of Conan has no announced date, they are only saying it is probably 6 months down the road from the PC release. Consoles need a mouse and keyboard to play a MMO, any game that claims it can be played with a controller alone is NOT a MMO. You also have to consider that a MMO takes lots of disk space and needs lots of room for updates, that will stress most of the existing console systems. Primary reason why the MMO will remain on the PC for quite some time is graphics. Even my kids 4 year old PC has far better graphics capability than his xbox-360. So, so much for your experts on having any clue what the future will bring. If you have stock in their companies I suggest you sell immediately, they don't seem to have much foresight. The last thing anyone wants is a dumbed down MMO that is mainly for consoles. Any such game will flop big time.
The snap out HD for the 360 provides plenty of of storage if you need it.
An MMO is not defined by the control device.
As I have said elsewhere, the intelligence or complexity of content is not defined by the platform, it is defined by the target audience. With the changing of perceptions of what a console, such as the 360, is that target audience is changing. This is no longer the domain of 13-19 old boys playing beat em ups and racing games.
WAR, an MMO, has been seen to run on a 360, played on a joypad.
AoC, an MMO, has only been slowed for console release so they can configure the UI to a joypad set up.
APB, an MMO, is set to take the market by storm, played on a joypad.
FF, an MMO, has been running for a while now, played on a joypad.
Phantasy Star Online, an MMO, the same, played on a joypad.
As for the graphics, you must surely be kidding me... but based on the wild inaccuracies of the rest of your post forgive me if I doubt your opinion or take you seriously.
Foresight? You don't seem to know whats happening now, let alone the future...
i fail to see how moving to console will dumb anything down, so if you cant have 40 skills on screen at once its dumb? you cant spam 1-10 its dumb? i mean going to console you cna asume they'll take a better control scheme then dumb ass hotkey spam you know maybe real combat? combo's? instead of spamming skills from your hotkey like swg like wow like gw like almost every mmo out right now, the graphics on console will blow pc's away because all people with 360's and ps3 have the exact same specs which mean they ony need to optimize for 1 spec and not need to make low end version for people who havnt upgraded in 5 year, which is fine no need upgrade for gaming when you cna buy the console for the same price as a high end GPU.
but anyways enough ranting i think it will be good , and the only way pc's will ever become gaming rigs for more than 12% of the market is to standarize the system have 1 pc a year or somthing like that.. i just got the new 08 dell or gateway with intels and nvidia ne 08 crap, cant wait till the 09 model like cars lol
Consoles are the way of the future. I like both PC and console games but why play a mmorpg on a PC when you can play the same game on console? I dont need Vent or TS, I dont need X fire , I dont need to upgrade my graphx card or memory for the new release every six months, I dont have to worry about system requirements or buy/building a brand new Pc for the EXACT SAME BS MMORPG that comes out every year. You say DUMB DOWN?????/ Just look at the mmorpg market today...... They are all pretty much dumbed down. I can use a keyboard with my 360 just like I can use a xbox style controller on my PC. I can get a larger variety of games for the console and most are more enjoyable. Just my opinions, thats all......
you took the words out of my mouth. MMO's have become more and more simple year after year. None of which has to do with the console market, but the people they are trying to target to draw into MMO's.
If theyre going to be developed on consoles, they wont be the catalyst of the "dumbing down" of the MMO genre. Blame that on the developers themselves.
"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a robot foot stomping on a human face -- forever."
MMO's on consoles are for grinding full stop. everything else would be a PC heavy advantage situation (raids, dungeons, crafting (to a certain extent)) but consoles get my vote if the game involves a lot of grinding
incidentally i recently got my hands on a PS3 and would not mind playing my fav MMO sitting back in my bean bag with the wireless controller in my hand grinding off some mobs. it just makes grinding so much less painful.
bring on the console MMO's as long as they dont downgrade the PC versions (or there will be hell to pay lol )
MMO wish list:
-Changeable worlds -Solid non level based game -Sharks with lasers attached to their heads
I think the switch to consoles will be a good thing. I actually wish it already happened, and cannot wait for the first AAA MMO for consoles. They way I think about it - 1. Performance - It's got to be loads easier to program a game that you know is going to be played on a single machine, a console, rather then something that is designed to work on nearly any conceivable PC variation. This will improve graphics and performance, decrease developer time and money. 2. Ease of access - Now, us MMO vets have no problem installing a PC game, patching it, etc. but I'd rather just be able to pop in a disc and go. You can do this on consoles. 3. - Gameplay - The big one. Obviously, with a console you don't have a full keyboard and mouse setup. Yes, you can use kb/mouse on some consoles already (360) but a MMO designed for use with the controller wouldn't be "dumbed down". Simple controls doesn't equal simple game play. Someone else mentioned Mass Effect, easy controls, complex and exciting game play. Or any console shooter. No more or less complex then PC counterpart, the compexity and challenge come from the game play itself, not the control medium. If anything, designed a MMO for console would create a game with a less cluttered and more user-friendly interface. The simpler control mechanics could be used to create a more challenging and action-packed game play experience. Look at Fighting games, relatively simple controls, nearly infinite complexity and strategy. 4. Third party - No need for third party software like Ventrillo or Teamspeak on consoles like 360, server hosting and support via xboxlive, all the built in communications and guild tools xbox live offers, etc. 5. Cost effectiveness - This would be the big one, the MMO developers would have to realize that people are already paying the 5.99 a month or whatever it is for the xboxlive service etc. so they'd have to offer the montly subscription to their game at a cheaper price. Then not only do you get access to your MMO, but all the features and games with xbox live at the same time. I know Microsoft would consider this a big win. So yeah, personally I cannot wait.
Sorry, but you have way, way too many assumptions in your reasoning here.
DISCLAIMER:
The following are just my opinions based off my own experiences in regards to what you posted. Please don't take any of it personally, it's not meant as such, nor should anyone imply I am posting any of it as solid facts.
In regards to your points:
1. I cannot see any way how developing for one machine ( although, most likely the games would be developed for each of the consoles rather than just one, making your point moot as each have their own development systems just like PCs) would in any way "improve graphics and performance". Unless you mean in the sense that console systems, even the "big ones" of today, utilize less sophisticated and lower-end equipment than most PCs.
2. What of any updates? Or free content releases? Are you just assuming that we'd have to go out and purchase a new, updated disc? There will still need to be patches downloaded and products updated at release and afterwards, there is really no difference except that you'll need to pay some additional cost to do so via services like Xbox Live, etc. on top of what you're already paying your ISP.
3. Comparing a fighting game and it's control system to an MMO is just apples to oranges - sorry. Personally I've not played Mass Effect. They make it only for Xbox 360 and don't plan to release it on any other console or medium (ie. PC) so chances are I'll never try it. I don't plan to purchase a 360 at all (especially at the current prices - I can get a PC with 2x the performance for the same price) and may get a PS3 primarily for it's double use as a Blu-Ray player - so I can't give any opinions on that part. But I can say from my experiences with FFXI and Phantasy Star Online, it is more burdensome to try and switch between hotbars/abilities than most current MMOs are on PCs..at least it was to me.
4. I'll concede most of this point except that it is still an additional service being paid for (Xbox Live).
5. This I think is the biggest assumption made here. I find it extremely unlikely that MMO companies would take a hit, of any amount, to their wallets just because Microsoft requires you to let them charge you additionally for key game features advertised on the boxes and on top of what you have to pay your ISP. If this assumption was true, Microsoft would not charge you for Xbox Live or your ISP would graciously lower your monthly ISP charge to compensate for you paying Microsoft for the Xbox Live service. What would most likely happen is that you'll end up paying $5.99 more a month for the privilege of playing an MMO on your console, than what you're currently paying to play them on your PC.
The only gripe I have with it moving to console would be if they ended up becoming console only at any future time. My PC serves a plethora of functions for me, hence why I bought it. Consoles pretty much only do one thing - play games. At the increased prices for them I'd like to see more functionality - hence why I said I'd probably get a PS3 if I got any of the newer consoles, because it can function as a Blu-Ray player and actually costs the same as a stand alone BR player. Hell, my PS2 still sits in my office room here and I use it pretty much just as a DVD player to keep the kids occupied while I play my games!
"Death is a dignitary who when he comes announced is to be received with formal manifestations of respect, even by those most familiar with him." - Ambrose Gwinnett Bierce
Is it easier for devs to make games on consoles? I agree with Rob, that putting games on console, and especially for MMOs, that it will dumb down an MMO way too much then we already have now. The only reason I can see devs wanting to dumb down a game so it can fit a console is so they can make more money with a mutliple medium. Unfortunate for us who like complex games like Old SWG and especially games like Eve, hell a consule version of WOW would introduce more and more mindless gameplay
Do you best to try and convince them to stay away from console, or at the very least, have them not mix the two medias.
Just because they are moving towards consoles for mmo's does not mean they will be dumbed down. Age Of Conan will be on PC and 360 and it certainly does not look like a dumbed down game. I think it could be better there are some very smart and talented people who play consoles. I think its a win if they do.
The reason why I feel that this new trend ending up this way is because of what a lot of people already mentioned. As a programmer, you can develop programs a lot quicker, and cheaper, when you know the target of your program. Actually, it is impossible to produce a program that you do not know your end users. So this is a logical step to make ALL games for a console because you already know the limits of the every customer's system. Now I do feel that not having a "controller" with over 40+ keys (i.e. keyboard+mouse) makes me feel awkward as the last console system I played on a PS2. But this could easily be ported to a console (as most are) and allow simultaneous use of a controller or keyboard+mouse depending on how the end user feels about how a game should be controlled.
Now from what I am seeing, the major differences between a console and a pc game is that a pc game has much more flexibility in controlling visuals and other aspects of the game vs a console. But that is only out of necessity because every pc customer has a different system, as appose to a console customer where their system is identical to every other console customer except maybe in peripherals (i.e. external hard drives/storage devices, input devices like TVs/controllers/keyboard+mouse).
Now the normal trend for MMORPGs for a pc customer that I am seeing is that a majority of games released for a pc will utilize the most up-to-date graphic algorithms for producing a 3d environments (i.e. dx10, physic engines, ect). This is because the pc market is geared to the people who want the fastest technology so naturally games need to follow this same market pattern or either side, or possibly both sides of the equation (i.e. hardware market and software market for pcs) could suffer from one side not pushing technology to its limits. Now consoles do push their own envelop in terms of 3d environments but a console is engineered to produce a specific output. A computer (or Turning Machine for you people who study Computer Science) was never produced to play a game. But a console was developed in its entirety to run a game program. Just like the arcades, which was built entirely to play a game, works on this same principle.
The more you look into this "Future of MMOs" the more you begin to see that this does not effect just MMOs, but all games in general. This is a logical step foward to have a unique program run on a unique system geared towards it in a world of specialized languages. Hopefully this will clear up some things for those feel that pc games are superior to console games because of the fact that a pc can run faster. But let me ask you this: If you ask people who play games that they had the option of perfect gameplay but only either smooth 3d environments or graphical environments, the majority will vote for smoother. Now this is only hypothetical because both graphical and smooth can be achieved along with ideal gameplay but this is because smooth environments are something that everyone can agree on. Slower the frames, the worst your gameplay experience will be. Graphics are subjective and very from person to person; one man's trash is another man's treasure.
If the market in games steps towards consoles over pcs, then I will be there to go with the flow. Hell, like some people said before me, it is a hell of a lot cheaper to buy a new console than buy a new computer.
Edit: Hell, seeing what others just posted, the enflux of console based MMOs would help fuel the development of next generation consoles. Which in turn might even make them faster/graphically advanced/ect compaired to their pc versions. Like I stated above, all computers are Turning Machines, just each computer made is created to do a specific job compaired to a pc which is indeed a more specific version of a Turning Machine, was created to allow the user to do a myriad of different functions. In this same light, a console is a more specific version of a pc, made only to run games (and maybe browse the internet).
MMOs Played: I can no longer list them all in the 500 character limit.
Look at all the add ons for the XBox 360. What does it look like with all those things attached to it?
A PC.
The benefit (and sometimes achilles heel) of the console is the OS is known, the code base is known, and you know what kind of performance you're going to get out of it.
The downside is the OS is known, the code base is known, and you know what kind of performance you're going to get out of it.
They always lag behind the new PC hardware. Without the PC pushing the boundries, we'd still be playing the SNES and living in 8-bit bliss.
Consoles these days have to come with huge hard drives, disk drives, OS's, internet connections.... smells like a PC to me.
What is the average life expectancy of an MMO compared to that of a console?
I'm pretty sure that developing an MMO for a console presents more than enough problems in just this aspect. First, there must be a 3-5 year development cycle (which itself might be greater than a console lasts). After that, the game should last somewhere between 3-6 years (probably other numbers, I'm just guessing). As you can see, by the time the game comes out, it is almost time to get the "next-gen" system. If the game does come out in time, there isn't a lot left to actually play the game.
______________________ Give a man some fun and you entertain him for a day. Teach a man to make fun and you entertain him for a lifetime.
There are two MMOs on consoles now, and they work perfectly well without having to be "dumbed down," at least compared to WoW and PvE games of similar ilk.
EQoA (PS2): the game has a full featured crafting system, as well as a character customization system that is arguably superior to that of EQ and EQ II. It's very easy to switch between up to ten combat abilities on the fly using a controller and to drill down to your buffs once every 30 mins or so. The problems that the game has are an archaic game design that emphasizes grinding over questing (and very slow grinding at that) and absolutely horrific graphics. Despite the utterly crappy graphics the 1-20 game is pretty fun. About a 50/ 50 mix of questing and grinding to level. Then, at 21 on the quests dry up and the game falls flat on it's face. Very few subs, estimated at around 10,000 as I recall.
FFXI (PS2, X-box 360, PC): again, this game is hampered more by an archaic game design than anything else. It certainly can't be considered dumbed down compared to something like WoW. In fact it's pretty arcane. For example, read up on the crafting system some time. However it focuses on forced grouping (very few classes can solo well, and none do it effeciently) and grinding to advance. It has a half million subs, but it's hard to say how many are console versus PC.
As soon as a game designer has the sense to create a WoW, EQ II, LoTRO, or GW in console space, they will make a bundle. Quest based gameplay, compelling graphics, soloability. These are common sense game design elements in console space, and for whatever insane reason the only true MMOs on consoles go in the exact opposite direction. Launch EQ on a console (with bonus shitty graphics in the case of one) is absolutely not going to fly.
Things look brighter in the future. The SOE spy game looks interesting, and Age of Conan also looks really good. Cryptic is also supposedly bringing their new super hero MMO to the 360. And who knows, Huxley might not be vaporware.
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
Here is something to consider: What is the average life expectancy of an MMO compared to that of a console? I'm pretty sure that developing an MMO for a console presents more than enough problems in just this aspect. First, there must be a 3-5 year development cycle (which itself might be greater than a console lasts). After that, the game should last somewhere between 3-6 years (probably other numbers, I'm just guessing). As you can see, by the time the game comes out, it is almost time to get the "next-gen" system. If the game does come out in time, there isn't a lot left to actually play the game.
While I think you make a valid point I think you would be surprised how many people hold on to last gen consoles for a long time. Like personally if AoC comes out on 360 next year and it has a good following that draws in good numbers It will give me incentive to keep playing my 360 for an even longer time just for that game let alone some others I will still enjoy.
I think that console games have the potential to make online multiplayer gaming grow.
That being said, I don't think "massive" online multiplayer caters to the console's strengths. I do see instanced worlds and peer-to-peer games that resemble MMOs, but not true MMOs.
That's because there's too much of a harassment/legal/PR mess when you start to bring an unknown experience to a toy like a console. I can see too many upset parents, too many bugs and NGE fiascos, and too much instability in the unpredictable MMO format that make it unsuitable to the "packaged experience" console gaming built it's reputation upon.
In other words, PC gamers are used to the kind of DIY experience you get from PC games. Console gamers like console specifically because you are guaranteed a certain experience. You know what you are going to get in a console game, which is far from the sort of "pandora's box" you get from MMOs.
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
I honestly didnt read a single persons post other then the OP but this is what I have to say..
I would LOVE more new mmorpg's to get away from the PC and it would be nice to have some really nice ones for the consoles. The main reason being I dont want to spend a whole lot of money on a super computer for future mmo's. I want to play a really awesome one (hopefully AoC will deliver) on my Xbox360. I want to be able to lay back or even on my bed and play the hell out of it and not get tired and cramped. I ahve high hopes for Aoc on the 360 but not really The Agency because I dont own a PS3...yet.
So the answer is...NO. We will see a few MMOs on the consoles...the developpers would need to be able to work on the Xbox 2011 and on the PS4 NOW, to make it a viable option. Let's me check with Sony and MS about that...not happening.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
The fact that computers are a better gaming platform still remains, alltho you might be impressed by the simplicitiy of a console, don't be fooled. The computer is and always will be a much stronger platform allowing devs to actually progress further with graphics and complexity.
Chatting is one thing most people cant do on a console, having a mic tied to ure ear for several hours is not exactly comfortable. (And no, sitting in the couch with a keyboard and mouse, is not comfortable either :P )
One huge diffrence between consoles and computers is that.. well... computers can be upgraded, allowing for expansions that could improve graphics once the game becomes older and keep it alive. The console dosnt live long enough, 3 years at tops and you will need a new console. And the game would die.
Computers dont have that problem, many MMORPG's are now more than 5 years old, and still living large. Yes.. you would have to upgrade your computer after a while alas computers arent used purely for gaming, there are alot of other uses. And if you absolutely have to play on a 52" widescreen in your living room, migrating ure PC and hooking it up, is far from impossible, its actually quite easy..
That being said, a new GeForce card is right around the corner, the 9800.. with 2 processors on it.. and will probably be about 500 dollars or so, And will most likely hold for a couple of years.
As for games being "dumbed-down" I dont see a huge problem in that, sure it wouldnt challenge your brain to do anything more than follow shiny colors like a monkey, but its still fun I suppose. I can see how its possible to play a MMORPG on a console, but it wont feel the same way actually achieving soemthing , and will more than likely just be a step down in mmo evolution rather than a step forward.
If you want performance and shiny graphics, get a GOOD GFX card and ure set for quite a while, im running every single game except crysis at 1600x1050 with 16x antialiasing and it looks superb.
If MMO's want to expand their audience they will need to look to consoles. End of story. WoW keeps touting it's 10 million subscribers without mentioning that 6+ million of those subscribers are Chinese accounts. Four or so million people across North America and Europe is not mainstream. MMOs still have a way to go and neglecting consoles will retard the growth of the genre.
I also found it amusing that Rob Pardo expressed worry about "dumbing down" MMOs by porting them to consoles. WoW is almost universally maligned for it's simplification of MMO game structure.
Developers who don't embrace consoles will be left behind.
If MMO's want to expand their audience they will need to look to consoles. End of story. WoW keeps touting it's 10 million subscribers without mentioning that 6+ million of those subscribers are Chinese accounts. Four or so million people across North America and Europe is not mainstream. MMOs still have a way to go and neglecting consoles will retard the growth of the genre. I also found it amusing that Rob Pardo expressed worry about "dumbing down" MMOs by porting them to consoles. WoW is almost universally maligned for it's simplification of MMO game structure. Developers who don't embrace consoles will be left behind.
Of course MMOs will have to be dumb down to "fit" on to a console, the fact you find this amusing indicates that you are a bit ignorant.
Producing games on a console is so much easier than on a PC and is an easier option for devs.
If some devs choose this path, there will be others that will continue producing on the PC as there will still be a big market.
It has already happened to simulations on the PC, driving and flight. Sim Bin still produce racing sims for the PC and Maddox still produce flight sims for the PC, quality ones at that.
IMHO there are two many devs/producers producing medicore MMOs, and only a few serious ones, let the medicore ones go the console route, we won't miss much!
I disagree with people who say that console games do not have to be dumbed down.
I own an Xbox and a PC, controller-wise a PC has a very fast and accurate mouse and a whole keyboard of hotkeys. An Xbox has a very slow inaccurate analogue stick and about 16 buttons. Hmmm? no im sorry not even close to being the same.
Also i laugh in the general direction of USB mouse support for Xbox. Micro$haft will never add mouse support because FPS gamers (and me) will use it for FPS games. and that will create an imbalance.
Games that are for Xbox and get ported to PC are already dumbed down. Gears of War for example, Ive tested this on both the console version and the PC version. The enemy AI is slower and there is a very distinct Auto-Aim on the console version. Whereas the PC version is much more challenging because if it played like the console game PC gamer would breeze thru the campaign and eat up all the 360 gamers online. The same applies for Halo 2, Shadowrun and possibly every other FPS. Possibly having a slower Analogue stick for an MMORPG will matter less than FPS. But still you cannot deny that the 360 controller limits what you can do in comparison to a keyboard and mouse.
Aside from the limitations of the controller the target audience is different. Xbox Live is full of kids and immature people. I care not what anyone else says i have spend many many hours Playing on both Live and online in PC games and my general estimate is that there is about 2-4 times as many children on Live. Im not saying that all under 16s are immature but a good portion are. I have played a plethora of PC MMOs im not gonna list. But i have also played Phantasy Star on my 360. I laughed so hard. the ridiculous amount of people called "IVANNAF/UCK" and people standing around with semi naked 6ft blonde toons called "IRA-SMEXY-BITCH". there were probably more immature nubs than actual people who wanted to play the game. Yes there are people like this on equivalent PC MMOs but the numbers arent as bad as Phantasy Star.
There just isnt the maturity and commitment towards consoles. With a console your gran buys you one for Xmas and it cost £200, No effort no price tag. Building a PC can be well over £2000 not to mention many many hours of choosing parts, building and tweaking to perfection.
I am a PC gamer who owns an Xbox. If a games comes out for PC and Xbox i get it for PC because it will always be better.
I am dreading having Xbox gamers join me while im happy playing AoC in the future. For me it will ruin the game.
Unless the MMO developers do something drastically impossible when it comes to porting MMOs to console the target audience will be dumbed down the games will suck and it will ruin MMOs.
Hopefully they will keep Xbox and PC gamers seperate for AoC and hopefully they will have a completely different interface for Xbox. because i dont want to suffer having a dumbed down game and control system just because some people have a lack of commitment to their gaming system.
Xbox gamers get me so angry.... look i accidentally wrote like a page of a post lol =P
Like many said before me, not everyone is going to want to talk live. Yes many consoles can have keyboards and mice plugged into them making them virtual PC's.
I play almost MMO's exclusively, and I wouldnt mind the idea of sharing with console players. But programing future MMO's for console only is something SoE would come up with. (ahm yes that was a slam)
The console market is what about 80% 13-23 year olds, while PC gamers average is about the same 80% 21-38 years old. with about 13% under 20. That is a big market of gamers that if they went exclusive console or primary console that they would lose (I'm one of them).
And good example of a great game but shitty interfacing is Elder Scrolls Oblivion. Stunning graphics, stunning world, and a totally fucked up interface because it was designed primarily for a console. I found it so clunky and clumsy I didnt bother to finish the game. And truth to tell I may skip their next one if the interfacing is as horrible as Oblivion was.
Now as we all know information you find on the internet could be wrong, but I found out some suprising facts about Oblivion sales. We know that Bethesda sold 1.7 million copies of Oblivion. And as best I could find only about ~250k of that was to consoles (information 2 months after initial release). That means ~1.4 was sold to the PC market. Now Bethesda will not officially release sales totals and break downs. But that is a shot in the foot for consoles being the "medium of choice" for MMO's.
I think Rob Pardo understands that the PC will always be the primary income source for MMOs. I cant for 1 second even believe WoW would have 10 million monthly subscribers, or even a 10th of that if it was designed primarily for the console.
Then again all we'll have to do is wait about 2 more months and see who gets the bigger share for the Age of Conan MMO. My guess is by month 6 after release PC's will have around 80% of the subscriber base (or more).
Cryptic Studios has hinted that its new MMO "Champions Online" maybe designed primarily for the console. Now I cant find the quote...figures. It was somewhere of their sites forums. I think its a big mistake and once I read that I started second guessing whether I would even want to deal with a console to PC port, especially a MMO.
"I understand that if I hear any more words come pouring out of your **** mouth, Ill have to eat every fucking chicken in this room."
Here is something to consider: What is the average life expectancy of an MMO compared to that of a console? I'm pretty sure that developing an MMO for a console presents more than enough problems in just this aspect. First, there must be a 3-5 year development cycle (which itself might be greater than a console lasts). After that, the game should last somewhere between 3-6 years (probably other numbers, I'm just guessing). As you can see, by the time the game comes out, it is almost time to get the "next-gen" system. If the game does come out in time, there isn't a lot left to actually play the game.
While I think you make a valid point I think you would be surprised how many people hold on to last gen consoles for a long time. Like personally if AoC comes out on 360 next year and it has a good following that draws in good numbers It will give me incentive to keep playing my 360 for an even longer time just for that game let alone some others I will still enjoy.
YOU the consumer might hold on to it, but that does not necessarily mean the development team would keep supporting it once the next-gen console system releases. Sure they might try and port it over to the workings of the next-gen system and then force the players to purchase new "advanced" copies of the game to continue playing, but given how volatile the console market has been in the past I found it doubtful they'd even go that far. Chances are they'd change the medium the games are stored on so they're not backwards compatible.
"Death is a dignitary who when he comes announced is to be received with formal manifestations of respect, even by those most familiar with him." - Ambrose Gwinnett Bierce
If I can customize my game by using mods/addons and that the open public can create these mods and addons, then I am cool with it. Otherwise, oh well. Guess just have to take what I can get.
I am done quoting posts of the "pc" people on this site ( even though I am a pc and console person) you can all keep living in this realm of self delusion, consoles are as viable of a MMO platform as pc's and developers no this or they wouldnt be making them. The whole argument about dumbing them down is pointless also, there are more kids on consoles thats a fact but you underestimate how many adults own and play consoles. I myself belong to 2 communities one called Age (Adult Gaming Enthusiasts) and the other called TAG ( The Adult Gamer) made up entirely of adults with families and real lives. Almost all of us play consoles and pc games and will always enjoy both mediums.
In these communities we also enjoy MMO's and would gladly play one on a console when a quality title becomes available and we would not need a "dumbed down" version and beleive neither would these kids you all speak of, the youth of today learn things in school we didnt learn till college so why do adults assume all kids are ignorant, thats not very logical.
I also have to address the poster who said basically PC gamers are superior to consolers at fps and would "school" them. Hate to burst your bubble but most of the people I play online with are just as comfortable with a mouse and keyboard in there hands as a controller and would gladly show you that first hand. Also Gears of War is a console game ported to PC so your whole paragraph about that is a moot point.
In the end most of the things stated here are personal opinion and personal tastes but please tell me how wrong I am.
Comments
thanks for the chuckle, you just summed it all up very neatly and with some great humor!
No signature, I don't have a pen
I thought you would like that . That part that's funny is how alot of good games are being ported to the PC from the console. Not the other way around. And how the fallacy of " Well if the make both it will effect the PC because they have to Dumb it down on the console, which takes time away from developing from the PC "
Awesome logic. Lets see how many MMO's can you name that have flopped in the last year that were made only for the PC. Quite a few eh ? So it would seems a game is gonna flop if its bad no matter what hardware it is on.
The snap out HD for the 360 provides plenty of of storage if you need it.
An MMO is not defined by the control device.
As I have said elsewhere, the intelligence or complexity of content is not defined by the platform, it is defined by the target audience. With the changing of perceptions of what a console, such as the 360, is that target audience is changing. This is no longer the domain of 13-19 old boys playing beat em ups and racing games.
WAR, an MMO, has been seen to run on a 360, played on a joypad.
AoC, an MMO, has only been slowed for console release so they can configure the UI to a joypad set up.
APB, an MMO, is set to take the market by storm, played on a joypad.
FF, an MMO, has been running for a while now, played on a joypad.
Phantasy Star Online, an MMO, the same, played on a joypad.
As for the graphics, you must surely be kidding me... but based on the wild inaccuracies of the rest of your post forgive me if I doubt your opinion or take you seriously.
Foresight? You don't seem to know whats happening now, let alone the future...
i fail to see how moving to console will dumb anything down, so if you cant have 40 skills on screen at once its dumb? you cant spam 1-10 its dumb? i mean going to console you cna asume they'll take a better control scheme then dumb ass hotkey spam you know maybe real combat? combo's? instead of spamming skills from your hotkey like swg like wow like gw like almost every mmo out right now, the graphics on console will blow pc's away because all people with 360's and ps3 have the exact same specs which mean they ony need to optimize for 1 spec and not need to make low end version for people who havnt upgraded in 5 year, which is fine no need upgrade for gaming when you cna buy the console for the same price as a high end GPU.
but anyways enough ranting i think it will be good , and the only way pc's will ever become gaming rigs for more than 12% of the market is to standarize the system have 1 pc a year or somthing like that.. i just got the new 08 dell or gateway with intels and nvidia ne 08 crap, cant wait till the 09 model like cars lol
you took the words out of my mouth. MMO's have become more and more simple year after year. None of which has to do with the console market, but the people they are trying to target to draw into MMO's.
If theyre going to be developed on consoles, they wont be the catalyst of the "dumbing down" of the MMO genre. Blame that on the developers themselves.
"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a robot foot stomping on a human face -- forever."
MMO's on consoles are for grinding full stop. everything else would be a PC heavy advantage situation (raids, dungeons, crafting (to a certain extent)) but consoles get my vote if the game involves a lot of grinding
incidentally i recently got my hands on a PS3 and would not mind playing my fav MMO sitting back in my bean bag with the wireless controller in my hand grinding off some mobs. it just makes grinding so much less painful.
bring on the console MMO's as long as they dont downgrade the PC versions (or there will be hell to pay lol
)
MMO wish list:
-Changeable worlds
-Solid non level based game
-Sharks with lasers attached to their heads
Sorry, but you have way, way too many assumptions in your reasoning here.
DISCLAIMER:
The following are just my opinions based off my own experiences in regards to what you posted. Please don't take any of it personally, it's not meant as such, nor should anyone imply I am posting any of it as solid facts.
In regards to your points:
1. I cannot see any way how developing for one machine ( although, most likely the games would be developed for each of the consoles rather than just one, making your point moot as each have their own development systems just like PCs) would in any way "improve graphics and performance". Unless you mean in the sense that console systems, even the "big ones" of today, utilize less sophisticated and lower-end equipment than most PCs.
2. What of any updates? Or free content releases? Are you just assuming that we'd have to go out and purchase a new, updated disc? There will still need to be patches downloaded and products updated at release and afterwards, there is really no difference except that you'll need to pay some additional cost to do so via services like Xbox Live, etc. on top of what you're already paying your ISP.
3. Comparing a fighting game and it's control system to an MMO is just apples to oranges - sorry. Personally I've not played Mass Effect. They make it only for Xbox 360 and don't plan to release it on any other console or medium (ie. PC) so chances are I'll never try it. I don't plan to purchase a 360 at all (especially at the current prices - I can get a PC with 2x the performance for the same price) and may get a PS3 primarily for it's double use as a Blu-Ray player - so I can't give any opinions on that part. But I can say from my experiences with FFXI and Phantasy Star Online, it is more burdensome to try and switch between hotbars/abilities than most current MMOs are on PCs..at least it was to me.
4. I'll concede most of this point except that it is still an additional service being paid for (Xbox Live).
5. This I think is the biggest assumption made here. I find it extremely unlikely that MMO companies would take a hit, of any amount, to their wallets just because Microsoft requires you to let them charge you additionally for key game features advertised on the boxes and on top of what you have to pay your ISP. If this assumption was true, Microsoft would not charge you for Xbox Live or your ISP would graciously lower your monthly ISP charge to compensate for you paying Microsoft for the Xbox Live service.
What would most likely happen is that you'll end up paying $5.99 more a month for the privilege of playing an MMO on your console, than what you're currently paying to play them on your PC.
The only gripe I have with it moving to console would be if they ended up becoming console only at any future time. My PC serves a plethora of functions for me, hence why I bought it. Consoles pretty much only do one thing - play games. At the increased prices for them I'd like to see more functionality - hence why I said I'd probably get a PS3 if I got any of the newer consoles, because it can function as a Blu-Ray player and actually costs the same as a stand alone BR player. Hell, my PS2 still sits in my office room here and I use it pretty much just as a DVD player to keep the kids occupied while I play my games!
"Death is a dignitary who when he comes announced is to be received
with formal manifestations of respect, even by those most familiar with him."
- Ambrose Gwinnett Bierce
Just because they are moving towards consoles for mmo's does not mean they will be dumbed down. Age Of Conan will be on PC and 360 and it certainly does not look like a dumbed down game. I think it could be better there are some very smart and talented people who play consoles. I think its a win if they do.
The reason why I feel that this new trend ending up this way is because of what a lot of people already mentioned. As a programmer, you can develop programs a lot quicker, and cheaper, when you know the target of your program. Actually, it is impossible to produce a program that you do not know your end users. So this is a logical step to make ALL games for a console because you already know the limits of the every customer's system. Now I do feel that not having a "controller" with over 40+ keys (i.e. keyboard+mouse) makes me feel awkward as the last console system I played on a PS2. But this could easily be ported to a console (as most are) and allow simultaneous use of a controller or keyboard+mouse depending on how the end user feels about how a game should be controlled.
Now from what I am seeing, the major differences between a console and a pc game is that a pc game has much more flexibility in controlling visuals and other aspects of the game vs a console. But that is only out of necessity because every pc customer has a different system, as appose to a console customer where their system is identical to every other console customer except maybe in peripherals (i.e. external hard drives/storage devices, input devices like TVs/controllers/keyboard+mouse).
Now the normal trend for MMORPGs for a pc customer that I am seeing is that a majority of games released for a pc will utilize the most up-to-date graphic algorithms for producing a 3d environments (i.e. dx10, physic engines, ect). This is because the pc market is geared to the people who want the fastest technology so naturally games need to follow this same market pattern or either side, or possibly both sides of the equation (i.e. hardware market and software market for pcs) could suffer from one side not pushing technology to its limits. Now consoles do push their own envelop in terms of 3d environments but a console is engineered to produce a specific output. A computer (or Turning Machine for you people who study Computer Science) was never produced to play a game. But a console was developed in its entirety to run a game program. Just like the arcades, which was built entirely to play a game, works on this same principle.
The more you look into this "Future of MMOs" the more you begin to see that this does not effect just MMOs, but all games in general. This is a logical step foward to have a unique program run on a unique system geared towards it in a world of specialized languages. Hopefully this will clear up some things for those feel that pc games are superior to console games because of the fact that a pc can run faster. But let me ask you this: If you ask people who play games that they had the option of perfect gameplay but only either smooth 3d environments or graphical environments, the majority will vote for smoother. Now this is only hypothetical because both graphical and smooth can be achieved along with ideal gameplay but this is because smooth environments are something that everyone can agree on. Slower the frames, the worst your gameplay experience will be. Graphics are subjective and very from person to person; one man's trash is another man's treasure.
If the market in games steps towards consoles over pcs, then I will be there to go with the flow. Hell, like some people said before me, it is a hell of a lot cheaper to buy a new console than buy a new computer.
Edit: Hell, seeing what others just posted, the enflux of console based MMOs would help fuel the development of next generation consoles. Which in turn might even make them faster/graphically advanced/ect compaired to their pc versions. Like I stated above, all computers are Turning Machines, just each computer made is created to do a specific job compaired to a pc which is indeed a more specific version of a Turning Machine, was created to allow the user to do a myriad of different functions. In this same light, a console is a more specific version of a pc, made only to run games (and maybe browse the internet).
MMOs Played: I can no longer list them all in the 500 character limit.
The future of the console is the PC.
Look at all the add ons for the XBox 360. What does it look like with all those things attached to it?
A PC.
The benefit (and sometimes achilles heel) of the console is the OS is known, the code base is known, and you know what kind of performance you're going to get out of it.
The downside is the OS is known, the code base is known, and you know what kind of performance you're going to get out of it.
They always lag behind the new PC hardware. Without the PC pushing the boundries, we'd still be playing the SNES and living in 8-bit bliss.
Consoles these days have to come with huge hard drives, disk drives, OS's, internet connections.... smells like a PC to me.
Here is something to consider:
What is the average life expectancy of an MMO compared to that of a console?
I'm pretty sure that developing an MMO for a console presents more than enough problems in just this aspect. First, there must be a 3-5 year development cycle (which itself might be greater than a console lasts). After that, the game should last somewhere between 3-6 years (probably other numbers, I'm just guessing). As you can see, by the time the game comes out, it is almost time to get the "next-gen" system. If the game does come out in time, there isn't a lot left to actually play the game.
______________________
Give a man some fun and you entertain him for a day. Teach a man to make fun and you entertain him for a lifetime.
There are two MMOs on consoles now, and they work perfectly well without having to be "dumbed down," at least compared to WoW and PvE games of similar ilk.
EQoA (PS2): the game has a full featured crafting system, as well as a character customization system that is arguably superior to that of EQ and EQ II. It's very easy to switch between up to ten combat abilities on the fly using a controller and to drill down to your buffs once every 30 mins or so. The problems that the game has are an archaic game design that emphasizes grinding over questing (and very slow grinding at that) and absolutely horrific graphics. Despite the utterly crappy graphics the 1-20 game is pretty fun. About a 50/ 50 mix of questing and grinding to level. Then, at 21 on the quests dry up and the game falls flat on it's face. Very few subs, estimated at around 10,000 as I recall.
FFXI (PS2, X-box 360, PC): again, this game is hampered more by an archaic game design than anything else. It certainly can't be considered dumbed down compared to something like WoW. In fact it's pretty arcane. For example, read up on the crafting system some time. However it focuses on forced grouping (very few classes can solo well, and none do it effeciently) and grinding to advance. It has a half million subs, but it's hard to say how many are console versus PC.
As soon as a game designer has the sense to create a WoW, EQ II, LoTRO, or GW in console space, they will make a bundle. Quest based gameplay, compelling graphics, soloability. These are common sense game design elements in console space, and for whatever insane reason the only true MMOs on consoles go in the exact opposite direction. Launch EQ on a console (with bonus shitty graphics in the case of one) is absolutely not going to fly.
Things look brighter in the future. The SOE spy game looks interesting, and Age of Conan also looks really good. Cryptic is also supposedly bringing their new super hero MMO to the 360. And who knows, Huxley might not be vaporware.
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
While I think you make a valid point I think you would be surprised how many people hold on to last gen consoles for a long time. Like personally if AoC comes out on 360 next year and it has a good following that draws in good numbers It will give me incentive to keep playing my 360 for an even longer time just for that game let alone some others I will still enjoy.
No signature, I don't have a pen
Bringing MMO's to console will mess the kids up even more.
MMO addiction now in console format.
Also we will likely see more "me-me-me" type MMO's
I think that console games have the potential to make online multiplayer gaming grow.
That being said, I don't think "massive" online multiplayer caters to the console's strengths. I do see instanced worlds and peer-to-peer games that resemble MMOs, but not true MMOs.
That's because there's too much of a harassment/legal/PR mess when you start to bring an unknown experience to a toy like a console. I can see too many upset parents, too many bugs and NGE fiascos, and too much instability in the unpredictable MMO format that make it unsuitable to the "packaged experience" console gaming built it's reputation upon.
In other words, PC gamers are used to the kind of DIY experience you get from PC games. Console gamers like console specifically because you are guaranteed a certain experience. You know what you are going to get in a console game, which is far from the sort of "pandora's box" you get from MMOs.
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"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
I honestly didnt read a single persons post other then the OP but this is what I have to say..
I would LOVE more new mmorpg's to get away from the PC and it would be nice to have some really nice ones for the consoles. The main reason being I dont want to spend a whole lot of money on a super computer for future mmo's. I want to play a really awesome one (hopefully AoC will deliver) on my Xbox360. I want to be able to lay back or even on my bed and play the hell out of it and not get tired and cramped. I ahve high hopes for Aoc on the 360 but not really The Agency because I dont own a PS3...yet.
A console longevity is limited.
A MMO takes many years to developp.
So the answer is...NO. We will see a few MMOs on the consoles...the developpers would need to be able to work on the Xbox 2011 and on the PS4 NOW, to make it a viable option. Let's me check with Sony and MS about that...not happening.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
The fact that computers are a better gaming platform still remains, alltho you might be impressed by the simplicitiy of a console, don't be fooled. The computer is and always will be a much stronger platform allowing devs to actually progress further with graphics and complexity.
Chatting is one thing most people cant do on a console, having a mic tied to ure ear for several hours is not exactly comfortable. (And no, sitting in the couch with a keyboard and mouse, is not comfortable either :P )
One huge diffrence between consoles and computers is that.. well... computers can be upgraded, allowing for expansions that could improve graphics once the game becomes older and keep it alive. The console dosnt live long enough, 3 years at tops and you will need a new console. And the game would die.
Computers dont have that problem, many MMORPG's are now more than 5 years old, and still living large. Yes.. you would have to upgrade your computer after a while alas computers arent used purely for gaming, there are alot of other uses. And if you absolutely have to play on a 52" widescreen in your living room, migrating ure PC and hooking it up, is far from impossible, its actually quite easy..
That being said, a new GeForce card is right around the corner, the 9800.. with 2 processors on it.. and will probably be about 500 dollars or so, And will most likely hold for a couple of years.
As for games being "dumbed-down" I dont see a huge problem in that, sure it wouldnt challenge your brain to do anything more than follow shiny colors like a monkey, but its still fun I suppose. I can see how its possible to play a MMORPG on a console, but it wont feel the same way actually achieving soemthing , and will more than likely just be a step down in mmo evolution rather than a step forward.
If you want performance and shiny graphics, get a GOOD GFX card and ure set for quite a while, im running every single game except crysis at 1600x1050 with 16x antialiasing and it looks superb.
If MMO's want to expand their audience they will need to look to consoles. End of story. WoW keeps touting it's 10 million subscribers without mentioning that 6+ million of those subscribers are Chinese accounts. Four or so million people across North America and Europe is not mainstream. MMOs still have a way to go and neglecting consoles will retard the growth of the genre.
I also found it amusing that Rob Pardo expressed worry about "dumbing down" MMOs by porting them to consoles. WoW is almost universally maligned for it's simplification of MMO game structure.
Developers who don't embrace consoles will be left behind.
Producing games on a console is so much easier than on a PC and is an easier option for devs.
If some devs choose this path, there will be others that will continue producing on the PC as there will still be a big market.
It has already happened to simulations on the PC, driving and flight. Sim Bin still produce racing sims for the PC and Maddox still produce flight sims for the PC, quality ones at that.
IMHO there are two many devs/producers producing medicore MMOs, and only a few serious ones, let the medicore ones go the console route, we won't miss much!
I disagree with people who say that console games do not have to be dumbed down.
I own an Xbox and a PC, controller-wise a PC has a very fast and accurate mouse and a whole keyboard of hotkeys. An Xbox has a very slow inaccurate analogue stick and about 16 buttons. Hmmm? no im sorry not even close to being the same.
Also i laugh in the general direction of USB mouse support for Xbox. Micro$haft will never add mouse support because FPS gamers (and me) will use it for FPS games. and that will create an imbalance.
Games that are for Xbox and get ported to PC are already dumbed down. Gears of War for example, Ive tested this on both the console version and the PC version. The enemy AI is slower and there is a very distinct Auto-Aim on the console version. Whereas the PC version is much more challenging because if it played like the console game PC gamer would breeze thru the campaign and eat up all the 360 gamers online. The same applies for Halo 2, Shadowrun and possibly every other FPS. Possibly having a slower Analogue stick for an MMORPG will matter less than FPS. But still you cannot deny that the 360 controller limits what you can do in comparison to a keyboard and mouse.
Aside from the limitations of the controller the target audience is different. Xbox Live is full of kids and immature people. I care not what anyone else says i have spend many many hours Playing on both Live and online in PC games and my general estimate is that there is about 2-4 times as many children on Live. Im not saying that all under 16s are immature but a good portion are. I have played a plethora of PC MMOs im not gonna list. But i have also played Phantasy Star on my 360. I laughed so hard. the ridiculous amount of people called "IVANNAF/UCK" and people standing around with semi naked 6ft blonde toons called "IRA-SMEXY-BITCH". there were probably more immature nubs than actual people who wanted to play the game. Yes there are people like this on equivalent PC MMOs but the numbers arent as bad as Phantasy Star.
There just isnt the maturity and commitment towards consoles. With a console your gran buys you one for Xmas and it cost £200, No effort no price tag. Building a PC can be well over £2000 not to mention many many hours of choosing parts, building and tweaking to perfection.
I am a PC gamer who owns an Xbox. If a games comes out for PC and Xbox i get it for PC because it will always be better.
I am dreading having Xbox gamers join me while im happy playing AoC in the future. For me it will ruin the game.
Unless the MMO developers do something drastically impossible when it comes to porting MMOs to console the target audience will be dumbed down the games will suck and it will ruin MMOs.
Hopefully they will keep Xbox and PC gamers seperate for AoC and hopefully they will have a completely different interface for Xbox. because i dont want to suffer having a dumbed down game and control system just because some people have a lack of commitment to their gaming system.
Xbox gamers get me so angry.... look i accidentally wrote like a page of a post lol =P
sorry.
/Psilo
Like many said before me, not everyone is going to want to talk live. Yes many consoles can have keyboards and mice plugged into them making them virtual PC's.
I play almost MMO's exclusively, and I wouldnt mind the idea of sharing with console players. But programing future MMO's for console only is something SoE would come up with. (ahm yes that was a slam)
The console market is what about 80% 13-23 year olds, while PC gamers average is about the same 80% 21-38 years old. with about 13% under 20. That is a big market of gamers that if they went exclusive console or primary console that they would lose (I'm one of them).
And good example of a great game but shitty interfacing is Elder Scrolls Oblivion. Stunning graphics, stunning world, and a totally fucked up interface because it was designed primarily for a console. I found it so clunky and clumsy I didnt bother to finish the game. And truth to tell I may skip their next one if the interfacing is as horrible as Oblivion was.
Now as we all know information you find on the internet could be wrong, but I found out some suprising facts about Oblivion sales. We know that Bethesda sold 1.7 million copies of Oblivion. And as best I could find only about ~250k of that was to consoles (information 2 months after initial release). That means ~1.4 was sold to the PC market. Now Bethesda will not officially release sales totals and break downs. But that is a shot in the foot for consoles being the "medium of choice" for MMO's.
I think Rob Pardo understands that the PC will always be the primary income source for MMOs. I cant for 1 second even believe WoW would have 10 million monthly subscribers, or even a 10th of that if it was designed primarily for the console.
Then again all we'll have to do is wait about 2 more months and see who gets the bigger share for the Age of Conan MMO. My guess is by month 6 after release PC's will have around 80% of the subscriber base (or more).
Cryptic Studios has hinted that its new MMO "Champions Online" maybe designed primarily for the console. Now I cant find the quote...figures. It was somewhere of their sites forums. I think its a big mistake and once I read that I started second guessing whether I would even want to deal with a console to PC port, especially a MMO.
"I understand that if I hear any more words come pouring out of your **** mouth, Ill have to eat every fucking chicken in this room."
While I think you make a valid point I think you would be surprised how many people hold on to last gen consoles for a long time. Like personally if AoC comes out on 360 next year and it has a good following that draws in good numbers It will give me incentive to keep playing my 360 for an even longer time just for that game let alone some others I will still enjoy.
YOU the consumer might hold on to it, but that does not necessarily mean the development team would keep supporting it once the next-gen console system releases. Sure they might try and port it over to the workings of the next-gen system and then force the players to purchase new "advanced" copies of the game to continue playing, but given how volatile the console market has been in the past I found it doubtful they'd even go that far. Chances are they'd change the medium the games are stored on so they're not backwards compatible.
"Death is a dignitary who when he comes announced is to be received
with formal manifestations of respect, even by those most familiar with him."
- Ambrose Gwinnett Bierce
If I can customize my game by using mods/addons and that the open public can create these mods and addons, then I am cool with it. Otherwise, oh well. Guess just have to take what I can get.
I am done quoting posts of the "pc" people on this site ( even though I am a pc and console person) you can all keep living in this realm of self delusion, consoles are as viable of a MMO platform as pc's and developers no this or they wouldnt be making them. The whole argument about dumbing them down is pointless also, there are more kids on consoles thats a fact but you underestimate how many adults own and play consoles. I myself belong to 2 communities one called Age (Adult Gaming Enthusiasts) and the other called TAG ( The Adult Gamer) made up entirely of adults with families and real lives. Almost all of us play consoles and pc games and will always enjoy both mediums.
In these communities we also enjoy MMO's and would gladly play one on a console when a quality title becomes available and we would not need a "dumbed down" version and beleive neither would these kids you all speak of, the youth of today learn things in school we didnt learn till college so why do adults assume all kids are ignorant, thats not very logical.
I also have to address the poster who said basically PC gamers are superior to consolers at fps and would "school" them. Hate to burst your bubble but most of the people I play online with are just as comfortable with a mouse and keyboard in there hands as a controller and would gladly show you that first hand. Also Gears of War is a console game ported to PC so your whole paragraph about that is a moot point.
In the end most of the things stated here are personal opinion and personal tastes but please tell me how wrong I am.
No signature, I don't have a pen