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We're in a MMORPG recession, People

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Comments

  • oakaeoakae Member UncommonPosts: 344

    I would think the pace is picking up again, in fact this is a pretty good year and one of the best since WoW. There's two big budget MMOs (AoC and WAR) about to be released and a few others (Chronicles of Spellborn, Aion, Huxley) that all look at least somewhat promising. And there's also many interesting upcoming MMOs in development.

  • lomillerlomiller Member Posts: 1,810

    Originally posted by pencilrick


    Imagine if the best food in the world was McDonalds....
    Yes, everyone would eat there, but there was no better food to be had than the standard "sog-burger" and "cold fries".
    Imagine that, because that's the state of MMORPG gaming today.  There is WOW (i.e., McDonalds), and all the rest of the "less appetizing" games.
    When, when, when will some bright creative dev's rescue us from this 6-year gaming recession?  2011?  2012?  Longer?
     
     

     

    I think you miss the point of the WoW – McDonalds analogies.  The point is to show that you can’t prove quality by appealing to popularity.  This cuts both ways, you also can’t prove a product is either good or bad by appealing to it’s popularity.  
  • bcrankshawbcrankshaw Member Posts: 547

    I disagree with the view that Single Player Games and MMORPG games are on a spiral downwards. This is really a subjective view and the facts don’t substantiate the reality. Okay firstly lets look at Single Player games .There is still a huge market for this, the success of Oblivion and the brilliance of games like The Witcher are testimony to this. Developers will continue to make these types of games because there is a market for them...basic economics. Now MMORPG...to suggest these games are on the decline or aren’t worth developing is just absurd. Take a look at the number of new Games coming, like AOC...Warhammer …Darkfel…, or the continued support of old titles clearly shows us that the opportunity to make money is real .No company invests in a market if there isn’t a view to generating revenue .Now to those who say the market is saturated that’s untrue .I live in South Africa and broadband is relatively new, say 2 years to the average person. There are millions of new and potential customers out there in countries that are even less developed and are investing in cabling and bandwidth infrastructure .So in fact the customer base for MMORPG is growing. I predict a plethora of MMORPG that will continue to be developed that will give us a much choice and entertainment …obviously only the good ones will survive

    "after the time of dice came the day of mice "

  • airheadairhead Member UncommonPosts: 718

     

    Originally posted by pencilrick


    Imagine if the best food in the world was McDonalds....
    Yes, everyone would eat there, but there was no better food to be had than the standard "sog-burger" and "cold fries".
    Imagine that, because that's the state of MMORPG gaming today.  There is WOW (i.e., McDonalds), and all the rest of the "less appetizing" games.
    When, when, when will some bright creative dev's rescue us from this 6-year gaming recession?  2011?  2012?  Longer?
     
     

     

    I can give you another analogy: sex. When you are young, inexperienced, and filled with hormones, you think it's the most important thing in the world. But generally speaking, there isn't that much to it... it's basic, not much you can do with it. So later as it gets too familiar, what do you do? You spice it up in every way imagineable....

    There's a lot of unexplored game-play space to explore imo.... EVE mechanics with new graphics, shadowbane gameplay with decent controls, some rts + fps + mmo mix, something modern, something with a horror (underworld) type motif, etc.  All things that sort of spice it up... but in the end, games are still pretty basic things... and can get boring with the repetition.

    Also, there is that major factor we must remember: money / cost. MMOs are extremely expensive to make and sell and maintain. Big capital investment leads to less innovation because of the high risk... i.e. bigger bet. And from the dev's point of view, why take risks when there is this HUGE population of potential customers out there; who have yet to even play their first MMO ?   It's a MUCH better bet to play it safe, and swallow up that inexperienced customer base; a no-brainer really.

     

  • Vampirian28Vampirian28 Member Posts: 49

    Unfortunately I agree and disagree with the OP.

    To say that the MMO industry is in a recession is a vague and all encompassing statement. The fact is that from an economic standpoint MMO's are more popular now that they have ever been. Where the true recession lies is in the creativity of the current business model.

    UO broke the mold in 96-97. The mud was on it's way to becoming a thing of the past now that would could see our characters and interact with a gaming world. This was my first MMO and the significance of this will be explained later :)

    EQ then rolled out in March of 99 and transformed the gaming world with it's breath taking 3d graphics. Again a 1st for the MMO industry.

    Since 1999 there has been little that has changed in the industry aside from the graphics engine being used. Many important lessons were learned from the 2 games listed above. Everything from proper housing, PvP, questing, crafting, community relations, expansions, skill based vs level based playing etc etc etc...

    For a lot of us 1 of the above games was our first MMO. Because of that we harvest an inner expectation that someone will create a new product that will re-introduce us to that feeling of "awe" we had during our first MMO. Unfortunately, in todays state of the industry, this will not happen for a long long time.

    So why are we in this creative "recession"?

    I will lend it to an age old adage "If it isn't broke, don't fix it."

    World of Warcraft introduced the MMO to a whole new generation. For a lot of those 10 million players, this was their first MMO experience. And they were privy to the "feeling of awe" many of us had 5 years earlier. This new generation will eventually become bored with WoW and start to do what many of us have done. Wait, wait, try, try and hope, hope that something comes out that will allow us to regain that feeling of awe.

    The problem here-in lies with the fact that the MMO industry refreshes itself every 3-5 years with a new batch of gamers. These gamers will flock to whatever game has the best marketing scheme and what there friends are playing.

    Because of this, all the market has to do is stay current with the best graphics engine and continue to use the same cookie-cuter business model to ensure positive cash flow.

    All this garbage above being said, the company with the most money, and best marketing scheme will continue to survive while all these other so-called competitors will create and hope to aquire a small percentage of the player base from current games. Unfortunately past experiences have shown that this type of tactic does not bode well in an unforgiving market like MMO's.

    Now don't get me wrong. WAR will probably do well. It comes from a widely know company in both Games Workshop and EA Mythic. AoC will also plobably do well because of the name as well as them trying to push the envelop a bit further by going with an "M" rated title. But really what do these 2 titles bring to a market that hasn't been done bfore? (Short of an M rating)

    My personal opinion (which basically this whole post is) is that until someone starts to think outside the box and has the backing of a large company or a ton of money is:

    What you see is what you get :(

    image

    KASE (Killer 80.00%, Achiever 53.33%, Socializer 40.00%, Explorer 26.67%)

    UO, EQ, AC, AO, Shadowbane, DAOC, Horizons, Lineage II, FFXI, PS, SWG, EQ2, WoW, City of Villans, Tabula Rasa, PoTBS, Vanguard, GW, AoC, WAR, DF1, Aion,Champions Online, DC Universe,SWToR, GW2, PS2, DFUW beta in that order I think. (And a lot of f2p games)

  • bachanambachanam Member Posts: 335

    Originally posted by pencilrick


    Imagine if the best food in the world was McDonalds....
    Yes, everyone would eat there, but there was no better food to be had than the standard "sog-burger" and "cold fries".
    Imagine that, because that's the state of MMORPG gaming today.  There is WOW (i.e., McDonalds), and all the rest of the "less appetizing" games.
    When, when, when will some bright creative dev's rescue us from this 6-year gaming recession?  2011?  2012?  Longer?
     
     
    Personally when you mentioned McDonald's, I got your point immediately, I'm one of those people who altho will eat fast food regularly, will not however eat McDonald's unless it's free and I don't want to be rude, even tho the person offering it is being rude to half of my internal organs LOL

    I don't exactly agree with the 2011-2012 question/prediction. Personally I think this year for games in general whether MMO or SP will be a big year. We've got AoC, CoS, DF, and War, and even tho I personally only want to play AoC, the other 3 games have enough features and large enough budgets to merit an honorable mention, not to mention the other games that will be hitting the shelves to fill the gap between the MMO feasting this year. What SP game would possibly earn a mention in an MMO thread on an MMO website? Why that's easy, SPORE of course.

    So I guess all I'm saying is I think this year is going to be HUGE for games, including MMO games.

    Now I know this is going to hurt, but just take some pills and wrap yourself up in your bankie because here it comes. Why don't we try not bitching and just playing? No? Well.. If MMO's are boring you, why don't you go to a friend's house a play a SP game with other people? did you know, that SP games are actually FUN when other people are involved or included? Ya, I know, it sounds Crazy!! Like O M G! But, wait, wait... oh no.. no.. it cant be true... could it be, that a SP game is fun with other people because theres OTHER PEOPLE involved? nah.. well, wait, maybe.. no thats just crazy.. well ok i'll ask it.. maybe it's fun because... ... YOU'RE INTERACTING WITH REAL PEOPLE THAT YOU CAN SEE AND TOUCH INSTEAD OF ROTTING YOUR LIFE AWAY COMPLAINING ABOUT MMO'S THAT SUCK AND YOU WONDER WHY THE HIGHLIGHT OF YOUR DAY IS COMPLAINING ON A FORUM THREAD.. wait, isnt that what im doing? noooooooo couldnt be.

    Well anyways, while I ago around pretending to complain, you enjoy your forum trolls and your hemeroids from that chair you love so much, while I leave you wondering if I am just another mmo complaint artist or if I'm outside making sure those hemeroids stay far far away from this beautiful man-behind of mine ROFL LOL, if that sounded any more... 'questionably san franciscan' I'd be saying stuff like roflcopter and lawlerscates LOL, I AM A BANANA  .. uh oh.. theres trolls in this forum!!  RUN FOR YOUR LIVES .. quick, SPAM! SPAM SPAM SPAM

    "Sometimes, things that may or may not be true are the things a man needs to believe in the most. People are basically good. Honor, courage, virtue mean everything. Power and money, money and power mean nothing. Good always triumphs over evil. Love, True Love Never Dies."
    image
    Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775

    Originally posted by pencilrick


    Imagine if the best food in the world was McDonalds....
    Yes, everyone would eat there, but there was no better food to be had than the standard "sog-burger" and "cold fries".
    Imagine that, because that's the state of MMORPG gaming today.  There is WOW (i.e., McDonalds), and all the rest of the "less appetizing" games.
    When, when, when will some bright creative dev's rescue us from this 6-year gaming recession?  2011?  2012?  Longer?
     
     

    Hmm .. actually WOW rescued us from campfest (EQ), pk-fest (UO) and generally unpolished MMOs.

    There are quite a few MMOs in development that are significantly different (Agent, Earthrise, APB, Jumpgate, Champions ..) that i won't call it a recession. In fact, this it the GOLDEN age of MMOs where the market expands and there are more settings and choices than before.

  • GiygasGiygas Member Posts: 19

    It's my opinion that the games industry as a whole (not just MMOs) is going through a huge stage of change right now that will take at least about 3 or 4 more years.   One big interesting trend is towards casual games, which has just recently cracked into the mainstream.  With stuff like the Wii, gamedev companies are figuring out that you can do much more with games as a medium than just hack and slash games targeted at pre-teen boys.  I think you'll start to see MMOs that are pretty far away from traditional RPGs and target other demographics.

    So are we in a recession?  I think that's a pessimistic way of looking at it.  I think of it as a revolution.

    Thoughts?

    P.S. - Does anyone in this thread read "Worlds in Motion"?

    http://www.QuickQuests.com - The Minutes-A-Day MMORPG that won't consume your life

  • WHOOWHOO Member Posts: 57

    All i can say is hopefully Warhammer or Age of Conan will be a success. 

    Boy, i have played so many games. Want an opinion on any major game? PM me.

  • Mimimi_RuMimimi_Ru Member Posts: 41

    Your analogy is flawed. WoW is like a nice restaurant in a world of fast food burger joints.

     

    You can eat trash food or you can eat the nice place every day (WoW)....but eventually you get so sick of it you cant take it anymore. Then all your left with is garbage.

     

    At the end of the day its not blizzards problem that their the only company with a decent game.

     

    As for the Warhammer guy....Ive beta tested its very WoW/DAOC hybridish. Wouldnt get your hopes up...basicly more of the same. I will say it has improved after the close and re-open phase.

    MIMI

  • HugahayHugahay Member Posts: 12

    Fellow nerds, it is about money and the more people who play, the more money there is to be made.

    WoW appeals to the masses, not the hardcore gamers. Gramma can log on with sonny boy and have a good time, casual gamers can get epics,  idiots can bot pvp for gear, etc. etc. It is a loot whore's wet dream and in the end, how many REALLY game for content and not the loots? How many have crap real lives but log on, sporting the latest in uber gear and have millions fawn over him/her.

    I quit WoW after three years because the community blows, the ease with which to get loots now, along with the lack of anything to do at 70 besides raid or crap pvp which I personally despise,  caused Azeroth to leave a bad taste in my mouth.

    I am not sure what devs can do to make this genre new. They will all have the basic formula. Look at fantasy novels, different characters, different locations but in the end, the same scenario.

    Is there really anything new under the sun or do we all need to just try to get a life..

    Dunno..

  • SonofSethSonofSeth Member UncommonPosts: 1,884

    I don't know, I wasn't here long enough. Got into WoW, went EUREKA!! all games should be MMOs, tryed the rest, went .

    I still think games should basicly be MMOs, I just think we will wait for few more years before something interesting happens. WoW is "every" other MMO and that's why I couldn't get into any of the others, it all felt all to familiar. That's also why I can't get very excited about WAR or AoC, aside from few gimmicks, it's very much the same grind to have fun, I did that and I plan to not do it again in every MMO that comes out.

    I still play WoW, on and off, have some fun with RL friends in there and it's good... but 2008. I see it as year of singleplayer games and thats why I'm buying a PS3 and taking that option because upcoming titles excite me much more than the upcoming MMOs.

    Oh and ofcourse, because my PC is ok to run WoW on high but it is barely over minimum requirements for AoC...

    image

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775

    Originally posted by Hugahay


    Fellow nerds, it is about money and the more people who play, the more money there is to be made.
    WoW appeals to the masses, not the hardcore gamers. Gramma can log on with sonny boy and have a good time, casual gamers can get epics,  idiots can bot pvp for gear, etc. etc. It is a loot whore's wet dream and in the end, how many REALLY game for content and not the loots? How many have crap real lives but log on, sporting the latest in uber gear and have millions fawn over him/her.
    I quit WoW after three years because the community blows, the ease with which to get loots now, along with the lack of anything to do at 70 besides raid or crap pvp which I personally despise,  caused Azeroth to leave a bad taste in my mouth.
    I am not sure what devs can do to make this genre new. They will all have the basic formula. Look at fantasy novels, different characters, different locations but in the end, the same scenario.
    Is there really anything new under the sun or do we all need to just try to get a life..
    Dunno..

    The problem with this view is that your complaints are mostly directly at the end-game. No game lasts forever. Accept that now and move on.

    Furthermore, there are expansions coming. Since WOW has done the NON-endgame so well, we will get to enjoy that more.

    And getting a life is not a bad idea. WOW is designed for people WITH A LIFE as long as you don't get into the end-game raid content. And there is no compelling reason that you *have* to do that.

  • Seen_JusticeSeen_Justice Member Posts: 102
    Originally posted by Dracus


    Look to the Indies.
    Stay away from the Meatrix, Neo.

    QFT.

    Creativity : The ability to transcend traditional ideas, rules, patterns, relationships, or the like, and to create meaningful new ideas, forms, methods or interpretations; using originality, progressiveness, or imagination.

  • BadSpockBadSpock Member UncommonPosts: 7,979

    I disagree with the OP completely.

    Just because something is popular doesn't mean it is good, yes that is true.

    But just because something is popular doesn't mean it is NOT good either.

    It's all about perspective.

    MMORPG recession? I think not.

    Recession can be defined as:

    "The act of withdrawing or going back."

    If that definition is used (really I see none other that apply) then MMORPGs are not even close to recession. It's the most popular and successful time in MMORPG history, how is the withdrawing or going back?

    Just because YOU don't like it doesn't mean it's not good.

    Remember that.

    Statistically speaking, the MMORPG is bigger and better then ever.

  • Cephus404Cephus404 Member CommonPosts: 3,675
    Originally posted by heerobya



    Statistically speaking, the MMORPG is bigger and better then ever.


    Bigger?  Sure.  Better?  I beg to differ.

    Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
    Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
    Now Playing: None
    Hope: None

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775

    Originally posted by Cephus404

    Originally posted by heerobya



    Statistically speaking, the MMORPG is bigger and better then ever.


    Bigger?  Sure.  Better?  I beg to differ.

    Better is always in the eye of the beholder. However, I can certainly say that some modern MMO, like WOW, is very popular and has very good reviews.

     

  • RammurRammur Member Posts: 575

    I seriously dunno why anyone plays mmos now days when all you guys do is flames and bitch about everyone thats out pick one play it and stick with it quit whinen gets old after um 6 years of bein a member here.

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