Due to 3 continental brokers, player shops make no sense in vanguard. Housing and boats need a revamp. The housing areas are deserted and dead. If a housing area (one or more of them) would be known as living towns then player shops would make more sense.
They are deserted, because crafters have to work in outposts for faction. Kojan people are forced to leave their home continent to advance in crafting. Those mechanics prevent living towns with crafter facillities and a pub/town hall/temple/what-ever. The lack of decay doesnt force people to go shopping regular. Once at level cap you only need a mender. Has SWG still decay ?
SWG's housing is restricted to 7 planets, but on those planets you're free to place your structure anywhere on the planet that isn't in the vicinity of an NPC city. You're free to explore the planet and find the perfect place to build your house. Not only that, you can also build your own city on these planets, also with few restrictions (can't be close to an NPC city or another player city and the planet must not be at the cap cities). There are crafting benefits for carrying out your crafting activites within a player city and there's also the conveniance factor as your city can get a shuttle that allows buyers easy access to your shop.
SWG lacks decay as well but in most cases, there are no loot alternatives to crafted goods or the loot alternatives are of no competition to the crafted kind nor are there any NPC based vendors. There are also other incentives added to create return customers. Eg, for an Armoursmith, they can provide a huge combination of colours plus the ability to mod armour.
Vanguard had a bad launch, it was buggy people left us in droves. The game is now playable and its population is recovered from its worst days, not only that but I plan to argue that it is better than your game. Heck I'll even let you make a case for games not released yet, hype away! Convince me I'm wrong, and that I should sub your game. Or at least put up or shut up and leave our forum with your derails. (this is not in order of importance to me)
Player Created Structures Not just created, but with stages that show for example a crane. These structures take a considerable amount of effort to make as well, especially as they get larger such as Guild halls, Caravels and the upcoming Galleon ships. You can also decorate these houses with about as much detail as you can housing in say EQ2. Vanguard may have player created structures, but it doesn't have the freedom that player structures have in Star Wars Galaxies. From what I remember reading, you are limited to certain areas where you can place your housing. Are your houses instanced in Vanguard? Can you set up your own shop in your own house? Can you use any item from your inventory as decoration items in your house? One of SWG strengths has always been its houseing. Next to it, Vanguard is the only other game that even comes close to rivaling it. SWG you don't exactly have "total" freedom either, you can only set up houses on specific planets not all of them. So housing placement has its restrictions there as well. The only real "benefit" SWG has over VG that matters is the ability to build player cities. I'm not sure what impact they have in SWG anymore these days. Well, you have 7 planets (out of 12) that you can choose from to place a house. On those planets, there are no restrictions on where you can or can't place a house, as long as it's not near an NPC city. You also can't place a house in a player city that you don't have zoning rights to. Player Cities still give bonuses to crafters, but their previous combat benefits need to be updated for the current game systems. FFA PVP We got it, it's called Sartok. Wait a second don't all pvp games have FFA servers pretty much? No, FFA means no safe spots, no limits, no rule Free-for-all. SWG lacks a PvP only server, but it does have open world PvP with no instanced PvP. PvP can happen anywhere at anytime. Free-for-all PvP can happen through Guild Wars. There's also possible plans to make cross-server PvP where people from all 26 servers can battle against each other. SWG was designed to have a heavy PvP element, VG wasn't. The original intention was to put the GCW in the hands of the player community on every server....but they changed that dynamic so many times now. The GCW still is in the hands of the player, they've just given some more incentives for getting involved with it. Complex Mob Scripts Containing: 1. Add spawns, both timed, percentage, random, and curse based. 2. Damage shields, drains, lifetaps, riposte's, immunities, beneficial incoming damage (such as healed by arcane damage etc.), varied resistances, cones (frontal, behind, side), circular aoe's (with varied ranges) both based on the mob and the players (requiring specific spacing in between raid members) 3. Stances and Enchantments which must be removed (sometimes taking multiple classes/casts) 4. Environmental spawns and effects such as blades, poison vents, traps, and plenty of obstacles and props that can and in some cases must be utilized in any successful strategy. 5. Charming, stunning, knock back, tossing (a throw over the bosses shoulder), instant death abilities, aggro loss and wipe, refresh increase, energy/endurance cost increase, casting time increase, and the ability to summon people at range. 6. Abilities and attacks that are not limited to the top of the aggro list (meaning affecting people other than the tank), such as curses that affect people above a certain level on the aggro list, or turn and slap attacks where they will attack someone else high on their aggro list then swap back to the tank. 7. A necessity to have melee in nearly every fight meaning there is no way to get around all area or cone effects by substituting other classes. 8. Important gear progression needed for all classes in order to advance in raid progression. 9. Animations, and NPC warnings that must be paid attention to in order to defeat certain content. 10. Mobs that require the completion of an event to be spawned (often in a timed manner). Over the last 8 months, SWG has had a lot of variation added to NPC's and their abilities, especially in the recent Heroic Encounters. More often then not, you can't just run in and open up on the NPC and expect that it'll die, doing that will likely kill you or others in your group. SWG still needs work done on this to improve the diversity with NPC's and creatures and if what you list true, then VG may have SWG beaten in this department. 18 Man Raiding SWG maxes out with 8 person groups, and that's the limit for instances. However, in PvP it's rather normal for groups form both sides to work together against the opposite faction. There's talk by the Devs to make it possible to combine groups together to create "meta groups" Hooray, both games are raid centric. Both games were intended to be sandboxes, both ended up raiders. Players : 0 , SOE : 2. Who likes raiding anyway? SWG has always had a raid element to it, whether it was taking a group down the NS caves on Dathomir back in the early days or fighting your way through the Tomb of Exar Kun today. The difference with SWG is that it does still have the sandboxy alternatives, such as Story teller, player cities, etc. Exploit System Similar to group "skillchains", sympathetic actions etc. Basically ordering skills with others in order to achieve more damage. This too plays an important part in SWG. If you plan things right and have certain professions work together to do abilities together in a certain order you can achieve much better results then just firing everything off as they become available. VG system runs a lot better then SWG's. I'm not sure what the original intention was with SWG system as its been through several major changes...I'll have to log on one of these days and see whats up with that. In the past, especially before and right after NGE, the SWG specials system was a mess. Some professions didn't even work right. But both are basically hotkey / timer mashers anyway. I like VG's system better. Yeah, I remember those days there were professions that had more broken abilities then working ones....as a Pistoleer back then, that was a daily issue for me. These days, all profession abilities work as they're described, and even having new abilities added through the Game Updates. I can't tell you if things work better or not then they do in VG as I haven't tried VG. Balance 15 Wonderfully balanced classes for PvE content. Okay this one is opinion, but it is the first game I could say this about, what about you? Where every class is wanted from 1-end game? Where everyone CAN solo, and where there are multiple classes for every role and no one class is must have for everything. And where multiple classes are not simply clones of each other, but play very differently (my vote for most varied healer classes in any fantasy MMO) Many classes also have several styles or affinities that they can choose from giving further variety. SWG do with some work in this department. Spy has a hard time in PvE due to them relying on cloaking as a defense...and cloaking loses agro on NPCs. But for the most parts, every profession has its own role in combat. No MMO has "balance" according to the communities. VG was intended as a PvE based game and "balance" has a different meaning. I don't know what you would compare it to anyway to get a sence of balance. FFXI is a group centric game, its balanced according to their design philosophy...can you solo? Hell no. Your not supposted to. It all depends what the intention of the design is. SWG was always a bit weird in this area especially when it had all of those professions. CU tried to line them up into catagories but that obviously didn't work to well....The only thing I recall was as a smuggler, groups needed me to slice into locked doors and such. Other then that....there was the endless b*tching about Jedis and Bounty Hunters and who was more uber. I don't think Smugglers can slice anymore so that eliminated any need for that guy in a group...My roots never worked right in any version of the combat. That's true, everyones idea of balanced is going to differ and I'm sure there's people in VG that disagree and think it's horribly unbalanced - there's always a group like that in every game. SWG was never, and could never be balanced back pre-nge due to Jedi being an alpha profession and being designed to be 1.5x stronger then any other profession. Now that has been eliminated and Jedi are no longer the end all be all, things have moved on and much needed attention has been spread amounst all the new professions. Smugglers can still slice doors and they do have new group roles, such as being able to hide/smuggle a group member (great for medics for out of combat rezzes). They're also pretty good with the debuffs, such as reducing the targets damage and defense abilities. Chunk System Rather than zones you have chunks, allowing for a load free world (although there is a slight hang during chunking sometimes, you are generally immune from damage during it and it is very short on most connections). This was a cause of a lot of bugs and lag early on, however Sony (the ones who ruined this game ) have done a lot to improve it, and are still perfecting it. I love the system however regardless of that occasional hang. While traveling on the same planet, it's quite possible to travel without ever seeing a load screen in SWG. Crossing zones on planets isn't noticeable either. Traveling between planets does create a load screen though. SWG has "zones" anytime you leave a planet you are "zoning" somewhere else. Flash load screen, your in space....flash load screen, your on a new planet. The seemless planets are nice though. There is no game that is truely "seemless". 3 Spheres of Advencement Diplomacy, Adventuring and Crafting. All which are a considerable "grind" (if you want to use that term), and have considerable amounts of content. Crafting abilities in SWG are their own profession, they're not secondary to combat professions. There are alternative grinds once you hit the max level of 90 as a combat (or crafter) character, such as your Pilot skills or your GCW ranks (which is a grind that never ends due to rank decay). Both have nice alternitives when compared to other games. SWG has a nice space portion...they added in a year and a half or so after launch....crafting, dunno, crafting is crafting, I'm no fan of it in any game. You assemble junk. As long as I can sell it I don't care how its done, faster is better IMHO. I'm not into watching sliders in front of workstations. The one thing SWG did have but mangled time and time again was the entertainer. Yeah, yeah, go ahead and make fun of me, I had a master entertainer also pre-NGE (among other toons) and I didn't AFK / Macro him like all the vets did. I actually played it. I'm stupid like that...but it was fun...in a manly sort of way mind you damn it. Entertainer is in a pretty good place right now (although it depends how you look at it), possibly better then they've been since Launch. They provide the best and most diverse the buffs that most people will not go without. Not only that, but their buffs cannot be AFK'd so you're always dealing with an ATK ent. But what else is out there? LotR's lol...you can grind or...you can grind. WoW? Kill mobs or don't play. GW, same thing...fight or shut it off. There are only a very small handful of games that have any real alternitives to combat centric gameplay. VG is one of them. The sad truth is MMO players today don't want that sort of thing anymore. They want the linear and directed gameplay like WoW. If the goal or objective isn't clearly spelled out for them they don't know what to do. And I guess that's what SOE saw coming when they made the NGE for SWG. However, they've mostly back tracked from most of that or at least given alternatives that are more in-line with the original ideas of SWG, such as Storyteller. Mounted, Air, and Sea Player Controlled Travel You can have several land mounts (including upcoming race faction specific mounts 36 in all) , a nice boat , and Flying mounts both of the short term rentable variety, and the uber OMG insane quest line reward ultimate accomplishment type. Although it started with nothing, SWG does have a rather large variety of ground mounts in the form of both creatures and vehicles. Although I wouldn't call them mounts, you also have the option to have 6 different Space ships. 2 of those ships can be POB ships which you can decorate just like a house on the ground, and they can also be manned by your group in various roles. Another strength of SWG that was built up over many years (and partially ripped down a few years ago) If I recall, at launch SWG had Zero mounts and vehicles. Yep, you needed to run everywhere on foot, if you couldn't afford the shuttle ticket. A Large World I would say its easily as big or bigger than most on the market. Fully open to travel with flying open mounts too. I dunno if it'd be the biggest, it'll be pretty hard to challenge SWG to world size. There's 12 different planets, 11 space zones, around 23 different instances and a space station. How old is SWG? 2003 launch? I would expect any MMO out that period of time to literally be busting with areas and content. SWG didn't have half of what it does now after its first year. It didn't even have space after its first year. It use to be called "Ground Wars". It did have the 10 launch planets though, and they're not exactly small with a size of 16kmx16km for each planet. An Average of added substantial content, at all levels of the game at least every quarter Something any good MMO should strive for, however many do not. Or no longer do. SWG has been getting new content about every 2 months in the form of Chapters. They've also started Game Updates which happen about every 3-4 weeks (on a seperate cycle to Chapters) which includes profession specific content for professions that are in the focus of that Update. Early on, SWG updates were a mess / unpredictable and sparatic especially before and at the beginning of NGE. It wasn't until these new devs started this chapter system that things really started flowing smoothly. Not only that, but updates back then very rarely had content, they were all mostly tweaks, nerfs and bug fixes that required their own fixes in future updates. That's the benefit of more recent games, the companies have (hopefully) learnt from mistakes they've made in their previous games and make sure players of the newer games don't experience that - I hope VG doesn't have to experience alot of what happened back then. As you said though, SWG has moved on from that and the updates are much more smoother flowing and actually have content!
I guess you know your game is in trouble when Obraik comes out to kick at it!!!!
SWG has had over 5 years and 2 major revamps to get to the point its at now. I still don't get why they took out most of that GCW stuff. I liked my scout walker and stormtroopers.
They did removed the Stormy "pets" and the AT-ST's, but everything else from the GCW is still there, from what I can remember. You can sorta get the Stormies by using the Commlink reward you get through ranking up.
Sorry for the colour show, but it seemed the best way to reply so people can follow the convo Sorry for the heavy SWG discussion too, lol. Only reason I stopped by was the thread title was catchy when I saw it on the ticker thing at the top of the forums...plus it's a nice break from the SWG section on this site.
Sorry for the colour show, but it seemed the best way to reply so people can follow the convo Sorry for the heavy SWG discussion too, lol. Only reason I stopped by was the thread title was catchy when I saw it on the ticker thing at the top of the forums...plus it's a nice break from the SWG section on this site.
Haha, its cool bro, you rock and its always great to discuse games with you!
VG cut have been the best game out there, if they had not done the same f... up as eq2, and swg, by making it a upen and uncontrol and all pvp game. - And whit pve classes.
Pluse no sides or faction/ to fhight for. as in rvr/fvf games ( daoc ).
Bugs what ever, fix em by patching.
Beta: GW, WOW, AOC, DAOC, DOD, L2, VG. Playd: GW necro msx, WOW never maxd, DAOC reaver-paladin-cabalist-vamp max, L2 never maxd, VG never maxd.
Sorry for the colour show, but it seemed the best way to reply so people can follow the convo Sorry for the heavy SWG discussion too, lol. Only reason I stopped by was the thread title was catchy when I saw it on the ticker thing at the top of the forums...plus it's a nice break from the SWG section on this site.
Haha, its cool bro, you rock and its always great to discuse games with you!
I have a VG buddy key, if you want it PM me.
Thanks for the offer, I'll get back to ya though Fantasy games aren't really my thing, but it can't hurt to see how other games work.
I stopped reading right there. False statement. Everyone knows Sigil were the ones that made a crappy game. Sony is just trying to make it better. Vanguard still sucks and so does your fanboism.
Agreed. Sony definitely turned this game around for the good when they took it over. It was dying under Sigil. Maybe Sigil would have gotten the major stuff fixed eventually, but they didn't. All the game-breaking stuff was fixed after Sony took it over.
Originally posted by MuruganResponses by Obraik Response by Torak(way to steal my color) Response to the Response by Obraik, Response to the Response of the preceding response by Murugan Vanguard had a bad launch, it was buggy people left us in droves. The game is now playable and its population is recovered from its worst days, not only that but I plan to argue that it is better than your game. Heck I'll even let you make a case for games not released yet, hype away! Convince me I'm wrong, and that I should sub your game. Or at least put up or shut up and leave our forum with your derails. (this is not in order of importance to me)
Player Created Structures Not just created, but with stages that show for example a crane. These structures take a considerable amount of effort to make as well, especially as they get larger such as Guild halls, Caravels and the upcoming Galleon ships. You can also decorate these houses with about as much detail as you can housing in say EQ2. Vanguard may have player created structures, but it doesn't have the freedom that player structures have in Star Wars Galaxies. From what I remember reading, you are limited to certain areas where you can place your housing. Are your houses instanced in Vanguard? Can you set up your own shop in your own house? Can you use any item from your inventory as decoration items in your house? One of SWG strengths has always been its houseing. Next to it, Vanguard is the only other game that even comes close to rivaling it. SWG you don't exactly have "total" freedom either, you can only set up houses on specific planets not all of them. So housing placement has its restrictions there as well. The only real "benefit" SWG has over VG that matters is the ability to build player cities. I'm not sure what impact they have in SWG anymore these days. Well, you have 7 planets (out of 12) that you can choose from to place a house. On those planets, there are no restrictions on where you can or can't place a house, as long as it's not near an NPC city. You also can't place a house in a player city that you don't have zoning rights to. Player Cities still give bonuses to crafters, but their previous combat benefits need to be updated for the current game systems.
Well it would be nice to have more plots, but I would say that in its current state whole cities wouldn't exactly mesh. I am pretty content with housing in the game now, and the bonuses they give are very nice (people even stay with guilds they would otherwise leave just for the buffs) haha.
FFA PVP We got it, it's called Sartok. Wait a second don't all pvp games have FFA servers pretty much? No, FFA means no safe spots, no limits, no rule Free-for-all. SWG lacks a PvP only server, but it does have open world PvP with no instanced PvP. PvP can happen anywhere at anytime. Free-for-all PvP can happen through Guild Wars. There's also possible plans to make cross-server PvP where people from all 26 servers can battle against each other. SWG was designed to have a heavy PvP element, VG wasn't. The original intention was to put the GCW in the hands of the player community on every server....but they changed that dynamic so many times now. The GCW still is in the hands of the player, they've just given some more incentives for getting involved with it.
To People who like FFA PvP it plays a large role in why they play Vanguard, something lacking in many games. Complex Mob Scripts Containing: 1. Add spawns, both timed, percentage, random, and curse based. 2. Damage shields, drains, lifetaps, riposte's, immunities, beneficial incoming damage (such as healed by arcane damage etc.), varied resistances, cones (frontal, behind, side), circular aoe's (with varied ranges) both based on the mob and the players (requiring specific spacing in between raid members) 3. Stances and Enchantments which must be removed (sometimes taking multiple classes/casts) 4. Environmental spawns and effects such as blades, poison vents, traps, and plenty of obstacles and props that can and in some cases must be utilized in any successful strategy. 5. Charming, stunning, knock back, tossing (a throw over the bosses shoulder), instant death abilities, aggro loss and wipe, refresh increase, energy/endurance cost increase, casting time increase, and the ability to summon people at range. 6. Abilities and attacks that are not limited to the top of the aggro list (meaning affecting people other than the tank), such as curses that affect people above a certain level on the aggro list, or turn and slap attacks where they will attack someone else high on their aggro list then swap back to the tank. 7. A necessity to have melee in nearly every fight meaning there is no way to get around all area or cone effects by substituting other classes. 8. Important gear progression needed for all classes in order to advance in raid progression. 9. Animations, and NPC warnings that must be paid attention to in order to defeat certain content. 10. Mobs that require the completion of an event to be spawned (often in a timed manner). Over the last 8 months, SWG has had a lot of variation added to NPC's and their abilities, especially in the recent Heroic Encounters. More often then not, you can't just run in and open up on the NPC and expect that it'll die, doing that will likely kill you or others in your group. SWG still needs work done on this to improve the diversity with NPC's and creatures and if what you list true, then VG may have SWG beaten in this department. 18 Man Raiding SWG maxes out with 8 person groups, and that's the limit for instances. However, in PvP it's rather normal for groups form both sides to work together against the opposite faction. There's talk by the Devs to make it possible to combine groups together to create "meta groups" Hooray, both games are raid centric. Both games were intended to be sandboxes, both ended up raiders. Players : 0 , SOE : 2. Who likes raiding anyway?
Raises Hand SWG has always had a raid element to it, whether it was taking a group down the NS caves on Dathomir back in the early days or fighting your way through the Tomb of Exar Kun today. The difference with SWG is that it does still have the sandboxy alternatives, such as Story teller, player cities, etc. Vanguard was never not meant to be a raiding game, it was alway something which was planned. Sandboxing is a very difficult thing to implement, I hold on to the hope that many elements will be added while still keeping the raid content which SOME OF US still enjoy.
Exploit System Similar to group "skillchains", sympathetic actions etc. Basically ordering skills with others in order to achieve more damage. This too plays an important part in SWG. If you plan things right and have certain professions work together to do abilities together in a certain order you can achieve much better results then just firing everything off as they become available. VG system runs a lot better then SWG's. I'm not sure what the original intention was with SWG system as its been through several major changes...I'll have to log on one of these days and see whats up with that. In the past, especially before and right after NGE, the SWG specials system was a mess. Some professions didn't even work right. But both are basically hotkey / timer mashers anyway. I like VG's system better. Yeah, I remember those days there were professions that had more broken abilities then working ones....as a Pistoleer back then, that was a daily issue for me. These days, all profession abilities work as they're described, and even having new abilities added through the Game Updates. I can't tell you if things work better or not then they do in VG as I haven't tried VG. Balance 15 Wonderfully balanced classes for PvE content. Okay this one is opinion, but it is the first game I could say this about, what about you? Where every class is wanted from 1-end game? Where everyone CAN solo, and where there are multiple classes for every role and no one class is must have for everything. And where multiple classes are not simply clones of each other, but play very differently (my vote for most varied healer classes in any fantasy MMO) Many classes also have several styles or affinities that they can choose from giving further variety. SWG do with some work in this department. Spy has a hard time in PvE due to them relying on cloaking as a defense...and cloaking loses agro on NPCs. But for the most parts, every profession has its own role in combat. No MMO has "balance" according to the communities. VG was intended as a PvE based game and "balance" has a different meaning. I don't know what you would compare it to anyway to get a sence of balance. FFXI is a group centric game, its balanced according to their design philosophy...can you solo? Hell no. Your not supposted to. It all depends what the intention of the design is.
Group Balance was horrible in FFXI, ask any DRG or DRK about the 4, maybe 5 years of hell they went through finding a group at higher levels. The majority of Vanguard's community would be hard pressed to deny that it does not have better balance than most MMO's.
SWG was always a bit weird in this area especially when it had all of those professions. CU tried to line them up into catagories but that obviously didn't work to well....The only thing I recall was as a smuggler, groups needed me to slice into locked doors and such. Other then that....there was the endless b*tching about Jedis and Bounty Hunters and who was more uber. I don't think Smugglers can slice anymore so that eliminated any need for that guy in a group...My roots never worked right in any version of the combat. That's true, everyones idea of balanced is going to differ and I'm sure there's people in VG that disagree and think it's horribly unbalanced - there's always a group like that in every game. SWG was never, and could never be balanced back pre-nge due to Jedi being an alpha profession and being designed to be 1.5x stronger then any other profession. Now that has been eliminated and Jedi are no longer the end all be all, things have moved on and much needed attention has been spread amounst all the new professions. Smugglers can still slice doors and they do have new group roles, such as being able to hide/smuggle a group member (great for medics for out of combat rezzes). They're also pretty good with the debuffs, such as reducing the targets damage and defense abilities.
What I meant by balance in my original post was an opportunity for every class to not only participate but contribue to the majority of game content. Also since most games have several classes per archetype (something I don't consider SWG to have, not saying they should) I would consider balance the ability to swap classes within the archetype. I can't name another end game where tanks were so interchangeable, and where the question of a best tank for the majority of fights was so up to personal preference. Also balance to me means achieving that balance without cloning classes within an archetype, no one can deny that the healing classes in vanguard all play very different from eachother (arguably as do all classes have a very unique feel to them). Chunk System Rather than zones you have chunks, allowing for a load free world (although there is a slight hang during chunking sometimes, you are generally immune from damage during it and it is very short on most connections). This was a cause of a lot of bugs and lag early on, however Sony (the ones who ruined this game ) have done a lot to improve it, and are still perfecting it. I love the system however regardless of that occasional hang. While traveling on the same planet, it's quite possible to travel without ever seeing a load screen in SWG. Crossing zones on planets isn't noticeable either. Traveling between planets does create a load screen though. SWG has "zones" anytime you leave a planet you are "zoning" somewhere else. Flash load screen, your in space....flash load screen, your on a new planet. The seemless planets are nice though. There is no game that is truely "seemless". 3 Spheres of Advencement Diplomacy, Adventuring and Crafting. All which are a considerable "grind" (if you want to use that term), and have considerable amounts of content. Crafting abilities in SWG are their own profession, they're not secondary to combat professions. There are alternative grinds once you hit the max level of 90 as a combat (or crafter) character, such as your Pilot skills or your GCW ranks (which is a grind that never ends due to rank decay). Both have nice alternitives when compared to other games. SWG has a nice space portion...they added in a year and a half or so after launch....crafting, dunno, crafting is crafting, I'm no fan of it in any game. You assemble junk. As long as I can sell it I don't care how its done, faster is better IMHO. I'm not into watching sliders in front of workstations. The one thing SWG did have but mangled time and time again was the entertainer. Yeah, yeah, go ahead and make fun of me, I had a master entertainer also pre-NGE (among other toons) and I didn't AFK / Macro him like all the vets did. I actually played it. I'm stupid like that...but it was fun...in a manly sort of way mind you damn it. Entertainer is in a pretty good place right now (although it depends how you look at it), possibly better then they've been since Launch. They provide the best and most diverse the buffs that most people will not go without. Not only that, but their buffs cannot be AFK'd so you're always dealing with an ATK ent. But what else is out there? LotR's lol...you can grind or...you can grind. WoW? Kill mobs or don't play. GW, same thing...fight or shut it off. There are only a very small handful of games that have any real alternitives to combat centric gameplay. VG is one of them. The sad truth is MMO players today don't want that sort of thing anymore. They want the linear and directed gameplay like WoW. If the goal or objective isn't clearly spelled out for them they don't know what to do.
Obviously Vanguard does and several game changes have been in regards to that, many dislike Silius for his alleged crafter bias more than anything else.
And I guess that's what SOE saw coming when they made the NGE for SWG. However, they've mostly back tracked from most of that or at least given alternatives that are more in-line with the original ideas of SWG, such as Storyteller. Mounted, Air, and Sea Player Controlled Travel You can have several land mounts (including upcoming race faction specific mounts 36 in all) , a nice boat , and Flying mounts both of the short term rentable variety, and the uber OMG insane quest line reward ultimate accomplishment type. Although it started with nothing, SWG does have a rather large variety of ground mounts in the form of both creatures and vehicles. Although I wouldn't call them mounts, you also have the option to have 6 different Space ships. 2 of those ships can be POB ships which you can decorate just like a house on the ground, and they can also be manned by your group in various roles. Another strength of SWG that was built up over many years (and partially ripped down a few years ago) If I recall, at launch SWG had Zero mounts and vehicles. Yep, you needed to run everywhere on foot, if you couldn't afford the shuttle ticket. A Large World I would say its easily as big or bigger than most on the market. Fully open to travel with flying open mounts too. I dunno if it'd be the biggest, it'll be pretty hard to challenge SWG to world size. There's 12 different planets, 11 space zones, around 23 different instances and a space station. How old is SWG? 2003 launch? I would expect any MMO out that period of time to literally be busting with areas and content. SWG didn't have half of what it does now after its first year. It didn't even have space after its first year. It use to be called "Ground Wars". It did have the 10 launch planets though, and they're not exactly small with a size of 16kmx16km for each planet.
An Average of added substantial content, at all levels of the game at least every quarter Something any good MMO should strive for, however many do not. Or no longer do. SWG has been getting new content about every 2 months in the form of Chapters. They've also started Game Updates which happen about every 3-4 weeks (on a seperate cycle to Chapters) which includes profession specific content for professions that are in the focus of that Update. Early on, SWG updates were a mess / unpredictable and sparatic especially before and at the beginning of NGE. It wasn't until these new devs started this chapter system that things really started flowing smoothly. Not only that, but updates back then very rarely had content, they were all mostly tweaks, nerfs and bug fixes that required their own fixes in future updates. That's the benefit of more recent games, the companies have (hopefully) learnt from mistakes they've made in their previous games and make sure players of the newer games don't experience that - I hope VG doesn't have to experience alot of what happened back then. As you said though, SWG has moved on from that and the updates are much more smoother flowing and actually have content!
I guess you know your game is in trouble when Obraik comes out to kick at it!!!!
SWG has had over 5 years and 2 major revamps to get to the point its at now. I still don't get why they took out most of that GCW stuff. I liked my scout walker and stormtroopers.
They did removed the Stormy "pets" and the AT-ST's, but everything else from the GCW is still there, from what I can remember. You can sorta get the Stormies by using the Commlink reward you get through ranking up.
Sorry for the colour show, but it seemed the best way to reply so people can follow the convo Sorry for the heavy SWG discussion too, lol. Only reason I stopped by was the thread title was catchy when I saw it on the ticker thing at the top of the forums...plus it's a nice break from the SWG section on this site.
Your right color's are a great way to reply to points, but maybe you both could stick to your chosen colors! =P
VG cut have been the best game out there, if they had not done the same f... up as eq2, and swg, by making it a upen and uncontrol and all pvp game. - And whit pve classes.
Pluse no sides or faction/ to fhight for. as in rvr/fvf games ( daoc ).
Bugs what ever, fix em by patching.
There is only open PvP on one server, and most of them like the open uncontrollable nature of it rather than instanced pvp which generally looks like 9 year olds playing soccer.
Patching to fix bugs, what a novel idea let me get on the phone to sillius! (don't even know why I bothered responding to this post, since said person obviously has not even taken five minutes to read up on the game).
7. A necessity to have melee in nearly every fight meaning there is no way to get around all area or cone effects by substituting other classes. how is that any good?
Couple reasons off the top of my head:
1. It means that melee actually are not largely excluded as they are in most end games.
mmorpg with end game = fail
2. It allows for more complex and difficult fights, having to deal with all sorts of damage and effects on multiple people rather than just the tank, or the person who pulls aggro. A welcome change from the classic tank, heal, and nuke "bot" raiding that most "raiding" games feature.
raiding on a sandbox game = fail
posted by apertotes
8. Important gear progression needed for all classes in order to advance in raid progression. yeah, gear progression!!!! and then, raid progression!!!! sure that is fun... no, it isnt.
It is for the thousands of players who played MMO's like Everquest 1. It is the core of what end game MMO worlds have been about for years, and it is done very nicely in Vanguard.
again, end game = fail.
so, you accept that vanguard is just a new EQ. how is that any good?
Might not be fun for you, but for classic MMO enthusiasts it is a big reason why we play.
many more classic MMO enthusiast would prefer a revamped UO than a revamped EQ
Originally posted by apertotes
10. Mobs that require the completion of an event to be spawned (often in a timed manner). wow, scripted encounters!!! that sure is something exclusive of vanguard, if at least it was a good idea...
Not something that is exclusive to Vanguard, we just do it better than most. Also not available in all games.
not having scripted content is a plus for me
Originally posted by apertotes
O Balance 15 Wonderfully balanced classes classes = big fail
for PvE content. separation PVE from PVP = epic fail
Yes when I think of all the wonderful games that have no classes....
UO, old SWG, EVE. all of them wonderful, the best MMOs we've had.
Seeing as how not everyone likes PvP, I would say it is an epic win.
not if you are arguing that your game is better than the rest. artificial limitations are no good. also, does vanguard have full loot on pvp? or is the same wathered down pvp than wow or most actual games?
Originally posted by apertotes
Where everyone CAN solo yet you said you always need a melee class...
No I said for raiding you need a melee for most fights. A melee, not meaning a specific class= balance. Just as you need A caster, and A healer, and *shocker* A tank. Most any will do.
it doesnt matter. if you need a melee for most fights, it means a healer alone would not make it. furthermore, if you need a healer on most fights, it means a melee alone would not work. thus, i do not see the solo viability.
Most end game fights in other games are caster(nuker), tank, and healer based with a heavy preference set on one or two classes in each archetype. yes, but that is not something that needs to be tweaked, or even improved. that is something that needs to go away completely. we need much more freedom and choices.
concluding. as i said before, vanguard is a good game. but sadly it is a class&level based gamed with raiding as endgame. for a game that was bound to be sandbox, it is the worst possible outcome. i am glad you are enjoying it, but i need much more.
in my opinion, thread title should change to "Why Vanguard is better than your mainstream game"
concluding. as i said before, vanguard is a good game. but sadly it is a class&level based gamed with raiding as endgame. for a game that was bound to be sandbox, it is the worst possible outcome. i am glad you are enjoying it, but i need much more.
in my opinion, thread title should change to "Why Vanguard is better than your mainstream game"
Vanguard was meant to be an open, dynamic world. At no time in Beta or once development was under way was it ever meant to be a sandbox game a la the original SWG, or some old muds/ basic MMO's.
It was always meant to have classes, it was always meant to have an end game, and it was always meant to have raiding. This was always a part of Brad's "vision". I'm sorry that you like do not this type of MMO, and I'm not saying your argument is not valid, however you are comparing apples to oranges and failed to present one argument as to what is wrong with Vanguard (since it will not become UO anymore than monopoly will all of a sudden become a first person shooter).
As a fantasy, class based MMO I still hold there is no equal. Again it isn't really important to me whether I convince you to quit your game, just as I doubt you are going to convince me to quit Vanguard. I do however have a problem with all the trolls in this forum bashing my game with baseless accusations, and scaring away people who otherwise might find out what a great game it is.
The way you post "we do it better" and such phrases really makes you sound like an employee of the game.
Vanguard is just an ok game right now, mostly because the market is clogged with crap so just about anything mediocre looks good. The game has a questionable future which is the biggest concern for me.
The big strengths of the game are the open design world and good character classes, but beyond that the game ranges from average to bad depending on what aspect you are looking at.
concluding. as i said before, vanguard is a good game. but sadly it is a class&level based gamed with raiding as endgame. for a game that was bound to be sandbox, it is the worst possible outcome. i am glad you are enjoying it, but i need much more.
in my opinion, thread title should change to "Why Vanguard is better than your mainstream game"
Vanguard was meant to be an open, dynamic world. At no time in Beta or once development was under way was it ever meant to be a sandbox game a la the original SWG, or some old muds/ basic MMO's.
that is great, but to me, open=sandbox.
however you are comparing apples to oranges and failed to present one argument as to what is wrong with Vanguard
sorry? i am not trying to probe vanguard is a bad game. i said it twice. i think vanguard is a good game. i didnt say what is wrong with vanguard because i believe it is not a matter of right or wrong, but of taste or preferences.
(since it will not become UO anymore than monopoly will all of a sudden become a first person shooter).
ok, it will not become UO. that is ok with me, but do not say again that there are no good non-class&level based games. cause that is a very big lie.
As a fantasy, class based MMO I still hold there is no equal
ok, then we agree. you can change the title of the thread
Again it isn't really important to me whether I convince you to quit your game, just as I doubt you are going to convince me to quit Vanguard. I do however have a problem with all the trolls in this forum bashing my game with baseless accusations, and scaring away people who otherwise might find out what a great game it is.
the origin is your fault. if you had titled your thread "vanguard is the best non-sandbox mmorpg", then you would have less trolls (in your opinion, cause i just saw people trying to explain why they think vanguard is not the best game)
about scaring away... well, i didnt lie at all. i just stated what i dont like about vanguard, and i didnt say anything that wasnt true.
concluding. as i said before, vanguard is a good game. but sadly it is a class&level based gamed with raiding as endgame. for a game that was bound to be sandbox, it is the worst possible outcome. i am glad you are enjoying it, but i need much more.
in my opinion, thread title should change to "Why Vanguard is better than your mainstream game"
Vanguard was meant to be an open, dynamic world. At no time in Beta or once development was under way was it ever meant to be a sandbox game a la the original SWG, or some old muds/ basic MMO's.
that is great, but to me, open=sandbox.
however you are comparing apples to oranges and failed to present one argument as to what is wrong with Vanguard
sorry? i am not trying to probe vanguard is a bad game. i said it twice. i think vanguard is a good game. i didnt say what is wrong with vanguard because i believe it is not a matter of right or wrong, but of taste or preferences.
(since it will not become UO anymore than monopoly will all of a sudden become a first person shooter).
ok, it will not become UO. that is ok with me, but do not say again that there are no good non-class&level based games. cause that is a very big lie.
As a fantasy, class based MMO I still hold there is no equal
ok, then we agree. you can change the title of the thread
Again it isn't really important to me whether I convince you to quit your game, just as I doubt you are going to convince me to quit Vanguard. I do however have a problem with all the trolls in this forum bashing my game with baseless accusations, and scaring away people who otherwise might find out what a great game it is.
the origin is your fault. if you had titled your thread "vanguard is the best non-sandbox mmorpg", then you would have less trolls (in your opinion, cause i just saw people trying to explain why they think vanguard is not the best game)
about scaring away... well, i didnt lie at all. i just stated what i dont like about vanguard, and i didnt say anything that wasnt true.
I don't feel like I need to rename the thread to "vanguard is the best non-sandbox mmorpg" for the same reason that I shouldn't have to change it to "Vanguard is the best non first person shooter mmo".
I am making the comparitive argument that it is the best game on the market currently (sandbox MMO's included), your points were that it was not a sandbox game, it had levels, and it had an end game the last two being some of my favorite features of Vanguard. So when your argument is based entirely around those three areas (and not providing other examples of how ___ game is better than vanguard) it is not going to convince me or anyone who looks for similiar things in their games as I do.
Anyways that last paragraph was in response to you saying that I should change the title. Again it is not really about making you quit your game and come play mine (if you enjoy your game great, I'm glad for you) I think that a lot of people who read these forums are looking for a new game. If they simply wanted to talk about their games, there are much better places to do this. I don't mean to necessarily bash games, but I also don't think this thread is trolling when you look at the other topic names on this forum saying "this game is dead" "where Vanguard, or SOE went wrong" "the dying game" etc. etc.
So I created this thread in response to those, rather than to continue their lives, asking for those people and other who constantly come into our forum and elsewhere and say that Vanguard is an inferior game. It is a discussion, which is what forums are all about. I think I have been respectful to most of the other posters on this thread, and answered their criticisms (with the exception of some that I felt were pointless).
This is why i left the game the 2 time i tryed it. But the ppl that play this game can give you more back than 14milj WOW players can. this game have all you need in the world of mmo's but some how this game did not make it. I know this game will make it and be big one day. Iam not here to tell anyone to play this game, iam here to say that dont let people tell you what to play. PEOPLE SUCK just try it ur self.
It's odd. I think this game is great, but I can understand all the complaints about it as well. The framerates are incredibly annoying, the limitation and grind in their diplomacy system, etc. It is all valid, and it is why I left the game. But I have to say, this is one of the only games that I felt created a nice lush world with a history and newness. Too bad about the problems though. It's a shame to see a game with potential like this slowly die.
It's odd. I think this game is great, but I can understand all the complaints about it as well. The framerates are incredibly annoying, the limitation and grind in their diplomacy system, etc. It is all valid, and it is why I left the game. But I have to say, this is one of the only games that I felt created a nice lush world with a history and newness. Too bad about the problems though. It's a shame to see a game with potential like this slowly die.
I think it is how drab the game feels...yet, visually it was beautiful...combat was nice...but, it had the be like everyone else syndrome, was very slow at times,,,and the low population and performance issues just did not work.
While it does 'sound' like things have improved the fact that such a bug strewn game was released showed a complete and utter lack of respect for the mmorpg community. When companies do such things they lose the trust of the people playing these games, me included. So I will never go back to this game they've already shown me they don't give a damn about me so I will do the same and never pay for their product. Also the complete lack of a free trial of this game again says heaps, any company confident of having a quality product would be more than happy to let people have a taster, all the big 'good' mmorpgs do it. So I would say to anybody considering going back don't until you can see the game via a free trial. I've had a quick look at the videos and screenshots of this game and it looks very dated and old, there are 2 'potentially' fanatastic new mmorpgs due out this year which look way better than Vanguard so why pay for something which has a poor history when you can end up paying for 'possibly' one of the best mmorpgs released in the last few years? Sorry if my comments offend but Vanguard offended me!
You're comment don't offend just make me laugh. The game owes you nothing and is great fun at the moment for soloing and also community wise. because it is not laden with as many idiots it really is a fun experience at the moment.
________________________________________________________ Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
Both Vanguard and EQ2 have the same problem, no population at any given time. Everyone quits as fast as new players start. It's an MMO............players = fun........... bottom line.
Why do people keep saying no population in EQ2?My guild has 40+ online at same time and is a softcore guild that can only raid PR and thuuga .
So not like people rushing to join us in any means.And we even closed recruitment for many classes due to our numbers and game only supports 24 per raid.
Well said Openedge1. I miss this game, and can't wait to revisit it in a year or two. Right now I'm back in DDO. It's a nice change. Very fast compared to Vanguard. Kind of like a button masher in comparison to tell you the truth. But, boy do I miss my quick footed bard and all his songs. That song book was set up so well. Just another reason to give this game another chance!
Comments
No, not instanced.Due to 3 continental brokers, player shops make no sense in vanguard. Housing and boats need a revamp. The housing areas are deserted and dead. If a housing area (one or more of them) would be known as living towns then player shops would make more sense.
They are deserted, because crafters have to work in outposts for faction. Kojan people are forced to leave their home continent to advance in crafting. Those mechanics prevent living towns with crafter facillities and a pub/town hall/temple/what-ever. The lack of decay doesnt force people to go shopping regular. Once at level cap you only need a mender. Has SWG still decay ?
SWG's housing is restricted to 7 planets, but on those planets you're free to place your structure anywhere on the planet that isn't in the vicinity of an NPC city. You're free to explore the planet and find the perfect place to build your house. Not only that, you can also build your own city on these planets, also with few restrictions (can't be close to an NPC city or another player city and the planet must not be at the cap cities). There are crafting benefits for carrying out your crafting activites within a player city and there's also the conveniance factor as your city can get a shuttle that allows buyers easy access to your shop.SWG lacks decay as well but in most cases, there are no loot alternatives to crafted goods or the loot alternatives are of no competition to the crafted kind nor are there any NPC based vendors. There are also other incentives added to create return customers. Eg, for an Armoursmith, they can provide a huge combination of colours plus the ability to mod armour.
I guess you know your game is in trouble when Obraik comes out to kick at it!!!!
SWG has had over 5 years and 2 major revamps to get to the point its at now. I still don't get why they took out most of that GCW stuff. I liked my scout walker and stormtroopers.
They did removed the Stormy "pets" and the AT-ST's, but everything else from the GCW is still there, from what I can remember. You can sorta get the Stormies by using the Commlink reward you get through ranking up.
Sorry for the colour show, but it seemed the best way to reply so people can follow the convo
Sorry for the heavy SWG discussion too, lol. Only reason I stopped by was the thread title was catchy when I saw it on the ticker thing at the top of the forums...plus it's a nice break from the SWG section on this site.
I have a VG buddy key, if you want it PM me.
Birds of a feather flock together...
VG cut have been the best game out there, if they had not done the same f... up as eq2, and swg, by making it a upen and uncontrol and all pvp game. - And whit pve classes.
Pluse no sides or faction/ to fhight for. as in rvr/fvf games ( daoc ).
Bugs what ever, fix em by patching.
Beta:
GW, WOW, AOC, DAOC, DOD, L2, VG.
Playd:
GW necro msx, WOW never maxd, DAOC reaver-paladin-cabalist-vamp max, L2 never maxd, VG never maxd.
Play:
Daoc - Paladin. Classic.
I have a VG buddy key, if you want it PM me.
Thanks for the offer, I'll get back to ya though
Fantasy games aren't really my thing, but it can't hurt to see how other games work.
Agreed. Sony definitely turned this game around for the good when they took it over. It was dying under Sigil. Maybe Sigil would have gotten the major stuff fixed eventually, but they didn't. All the game-breaking stuff was fixed after Sony took it over.
I guess you know your game is in trouble when Obraik comes out to kick at it!!!!
SWG has had over 5 years and 2 major revamps to get to the point its at now. I still don't get why they took out most of that GCW stuff. I liked my scout walker and stormtroopers.
They did removed the Stormy "pets" and the AT-ST's, but everything else from the GCW is still there, from what I can remember. You can sorta get the Stormies by using the Commlink reward you get through ranking up.
Sorry for the colour show, but it seemed the best way to reply so people can follow the convo
Sorry for the heavy SWG discussion too, lol. Only reason I stopped by was the thread title was catchy when I saw it on the ticker thing at the top of the forums...plus it's a nice break from the SWG section on this site.
Your right color's are a great way to reply to points, but maybe you both could stick to your chosen colors! =P
http://xivpads.com/?1595680
http://guildwork.com/users/murugan
Patching to fix bugs, what a novel idea let me get on the phone to sillius! (don't even know why I bothered responding to this post, since said person obviously has not even taken five minutes to read up on the game).
http://xivpads.com/?1595680
http://guildwork.com/users/murugan
Last I heard, Vanguard was shutting down. Yes? No?
night of the living games that suck! look out dark and light swg and vanguard are coming to kick your ass!
arguing with a corporate fanboi is like teaching special education.
even if you teach him something...at the end of the day he's still retarded.
Couple reasons off the top of my head:
1. It means that melee actually are not largely excluded as they are in most end games.
mmorpg with end game = fail
2. It allows for more complex and difficult fights, having to deal with all sorts of damage and effects on multiple people rather than just the tank, or the person who pulls aggro. A welcome change from the classic tank, heal, and nuke "bot" raiding that most "raiding" games feature.
raiding on a sandbox game = fail
It is for the thousands of players who played MMO's like Everquest 1. It is the core of what end game MMO worlds have been about for years, and it is done very nicely in Vanguard.
again, end game = fail.
so, you accept that vanguard is just a new EQ. how is that any good?
Might not be fun for you, but for classic MMO enthusiasts it is a big reason why we play.
many more classic MMO enthusiast would prefer a revamped UO than a revamped EQ
Not something that is exclusive to Vanguard, we just do it better than most. Also not available in all games.
not having scripted content is a plus for me
Yes when I think of all the wonderful games that have no classes....
UO, old SWG, EVE. all of them wonderful, the best MMOs we've had.
Seeing as how not everyone likes PvP, I would say it is an epic win.
not if you are arguing that your game is better than the rest. artificial limitations are no good. also, does vanguard have full loot on pvp? or is the same wathered down pvp than wow or most actual games?
No I said for raiding you need a melee for most fights. A melee, not meaning a specific class= balance. Just as you need A caster, and A healer, and *shocker* A tank. Most any will do.it doesnt matter. if you need a melee for most fights, it means a healer alone would not make it. furthermore, if you need a healer on most fights, it means a melee alone would not work. thus, i do not see the solo viability.
Most end game fights in other games are caster(nuker), tank, and healer based with a heavy preference set on one or two classes in each archetype.
yes, but that is not something that needs to be tweaked, or even improved. that is something that needs to go away completely. we need much more freedom and choices.
concluding. as i said before, vanguard is a good game. but sadly it is a class&level based gamed with raiding as endgame. for a game that was bound to be sandbox, it is the worst possible outcome. i am glad you are enjoying it, but i need much more.
in my opinion, thread title should change to "Why Vanguard is better than your mainstream game"
concluding. as i said before, vanguard is a good game. but sadly it is a class&level based gamed with raiding as endgame. for a game that was bound to be sandbox, it is the worst possible outcome. i am glad you are enjoying it, but i need much more.
in my opinion, thread title should change to "Why Vanguard is better than your mainstream game"
Vanguard was meant to be an open, dynamic world. At no time in Beta or once development was under way was it ever meant to be a sandbox game a la the original SWG, or some old muds/ basic MMO's.
It was always meant to have classes, it was always meant to have an end game, and it was always meant to have raiding. This was always a part of Brad's "vision". I'm sorry that you like do not this type of MMO, and I'm not saying your argument is not valid, however you are comparing apples to oranges and failed to present one argument as to what is wrong with Vanguard (since it will not become UO anymore than monopoly will all of a sudden become a first person shooter).
As a fantasy, class based MMO I still hold there is no equal. Again it isn't really important to me whether I convince you to quit your game, just as I doubt you are going to convince me to quit Vanguard. I do however have a problem with all the trolls in this forum bashing my game with baseless accusations, and scaring away people who otherwise might find out what a great game it is.
http://xivpads.com/?1595680
http://guildwork.com/users/murugan
The way you post "we do it better" and such phrases really makes you sound like an employee of the game.
Vanguard is just an ok game right now, mostly because the market is clogged with crap so just about anything mediocre looks good. The game has a questionable future which is the biggest concern for me.
The big strengths of the game are the open design world and good character classes, but beyond that the game ranges from average to bad depending on what aspect you are looking at.
concluding. as i said before, vanguard is a good game. but sadly it is a class&level based gamed with raiding as endgame. for a game that was bound to be sandbox, it is the worst possible outcome. i am glad you are enjoying it, but i need much more.
in my opinion, thread title should change to "Why Vanguard is better than your mainstream game"
Vanguard was meant to be an open, dynamic world. At no time in Beta or once development was under way was it ever meant to be a sandbox game a la the original SWG, or some old muds/ basic MMO's.
that is great, but to me, open=sandbox.
however you are comparing apples to oranges and failed to present one argument as to what is wrong with Vanguard
sorry? i am not trying to probe vanguard is a bad game. i said it twice. i think vanguard is a good game. i didnt say what is wrong with vanguard because i believe it is not a matter of right or wrong, but of taste or preferences.
(since it will not become UO anymore than monopoly will all of a sudden become a first person shooter).
ok, it will not become UO. that is ok with me, but do not say again that there are no good non-class&level based games. cause that is a very big lie.
As a fantasy, class based MMO I still hold there is no equal
ok, then we agree. you can change the title of the thread
Again it isn't really important to me whether I convince you to quit your game, just as I doubt you are going to convince me to quit Vanguard. I do however have a problem with all the trolls in this forum bashing my game with baseless accusations, and scaring away people who otherwise might find out what a great game it is.
the origin is your fault. if you had titled your thread "vanguard is the best non-sandbox mmorpg", then you would have less trolls (in your opinion, cause i just saw people trying to explain why they think vanguard is not the best game)
about scaring away... well, i didnt lie at all. i just stated what i dont like about vanguard, and i didnt say anything that wasnt true.
concluding. as i said before, vanguard is a good game. but sadly it is a class&level based gamed with raiding as endgame. for a game that was bound to be sandbox, it is the worst possible outcome. i am glad you are enjoying it, but i need much more.
in my opinion, thread title should change to "Why Vanguard is better than your mainstream game"
Vanguard was meant to be an open, dynamic world. At no time in Beta or once development was under way was it ever meant to be a sandbox game a la the original SWG, or some old muds/ basic MMO's.
that is great, but to me, open=sandbox.
however you are comparing apples to oranges and failed to present one argument as to what is wrong with Vanguard
sorry? i am not trying to probe vanguard is a bad game. i said it twice. i think vanguard is a good game. i didnt say what is wrong with vanguard because i believe it is not a matter of right or wrong, but of taste or preferences.
(since it will not become UO anymore than monopoly will all of a sudden become a first person shooter).
ok, it will not become UO. that is ok with me, but do not say again that there are no good non-class&level based games. cause that is a very big lie.
As a fantasy, class based MMO I still hold there is no equal
ok, then we agree. you can change the title of the thread
Again it isn't really important to me whether I convince you to quit your game, just as I doubt you are going to convince me to quit Vanguard. I do however have a problem with all the trolls in this forum bashing my game with baseless accusations, and scaring away people who otherwise might find out what a great game it is.
the origin is your fault. if you had titled your thread "vanguard is the best non-sandbox mmorpg", then you would have less trolls (in your opinion, cause i just saw people trying to explain why they think vanguard is not the best game)
about scaring away... well, i didnt lie at all. i just stated what i dont like about vanguard, and i didnt say anything that wasnt true.
I don't feel like I need to rename the thread to "vanguard is the best non-sandbox mmorpg" for the same reason that I shouldn't have to change it to "Vanguard is the best non first person shooter mmo".I am making the comparitive argument that it is the best game on the market currently (sandbox MMO's included), your points were that it was not a sandbox game, it had levels, and it had an end game the last two being some of my favorite features of Vanguard. So when your argument is based entirely around those three areas (and not providing other examples of how ___ game is better than vanguard) it is not going to convince me or anyone who looks for similiar things in their games as I do.
Anyways that last paragraph was in response to you saying that I should change the title. Again it is not really about making you quit your game and come play mine (if you enjoy your game great, I'm glad for you) I think that a lot of people who read these forums are looking for a new game. If they simply wanted to talk about their games, there are much better places to do this. I don't mean to necessarily bash games, but I also don't think this thread is trolling when you look at the other topic names on this forum saying "this game is dead" "where Vanguard, or SOE went wrong" "the dying game" etc. etc.
So I created this thread in response to those, rather than to continue their lives, asking for those people and other who constantly come into our forum and elsewhere and say that Vanguard is an inferior game. It is a discussion, which is what forums are all about. I think I have been respectful to most of the other posters on this thread, and answered their criticisms (with the exception of some that I felt were pointless).
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page 4/20/08 1:59:54 PM
Both Vanguard and EQ2 have the same problem, no population at any given time. Everyone quits as fast as new players start.
It's an MMO............players = fun........... bottom line.
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This is why i left the game the 2 time i tryed it. But the ppl that play this game can give you more back than 14milj WOW players can. this game have all you need in the world of mmo's but some how this game did not make it. I know this game will make it and be big one day. Iam not here to tell anyone to play this game, iam here to say that dont let people tell you what to play. PEOPLE SUCK just try it ur self.
I really enjoy this game at the moment, I don't have much free time, but I still find myself enjoying what the world has to offer.
Good game.
It's odd. I think this game is great, but I can understand all the complaints about it as well. The framerates are incredibly annoying, the limitation and grind in their diplomacy system, etc. It is all valid, and it is why I left the game. But I have to say, this is one of the only games that I felt created a nice lush world with a history and newness. Too bad about the problems though. It's a shame to see a game with potential like this slowly die.
I guess another year may be in order?
You're comment don't offend just make me laugh. The game owes you nothing and is great fun at the moment for soloing and also community wise. because it is not laden with as many idiots it really is a fun experience at the moment.
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Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
So not like people rushing to join us in any means.And we even closed recruitment for many classes due to our numbers and game only supports 24 per raid.
Well said Openedge1. I miss this game, and can't wait to revisit it in a year or two. Right now I'm back in DDO. It's a nice change. Very fast compared to Vanguard. Kind of like a button masher in comparison to tell you the truth. But, boy do I miss my quick footed bard and all his songs. That song book was set up so well. Just another reason to give this game another chance!