What I never get, from a player's perspective, is why everyone wants to unseat WoW?
What deeply annoys me that people keep telling me they want new MMOs like WoW. And people comparing other MMOs to WoW. And magazines comparing new MMOs to WoW. And companies trying to copy WoW - LotRO is a good example.
Thats why I would be glad if WoW would be "unseated". Not necessarily in numbers of players or profits or whatever. Just that nobody would talk about this crap !
I just dont want to hear what the "Sun" writes about every theme just because the "Sun" is the newspaper with the most readers. Its not the newspaper with the most readers because its a source of quality.
Definitely LOTRO. Hopefully Conan will launch well, but from what I've read, it'll be rough if you don't have a high-end machine. When will developers learn to scale better? WOW does it well...
Are you serious ? WoW can be played on 6 years old computers ... scaling ?!? It has horribly low requirements !
What's the definition of a successful launch? Without that definition we can't answer the question.
My definition is a launch that has stable servers, bug free, and is fun to play and subscription numbers rise. I consider a launch from the day the servers open to its first year.
No game has been bug free or had no server crashes but there a re a few that have signifigantly less than others. DaOC, GW, D&D online, LoTRO online all had smooth launches. LoTRO has to be a record for smooth launches in my experience so I give a big round of applause to Turbine for that. The game is a good game it just is lacking that special something to make it #1, I can't quite put my finger on it.
Most MMO's before WoW had shakey launches, Blizzard raised the standard by introducing a polished game. I think most peopel reconize that and it is what has made every Blizard game I can think of successful.
Now why can't a game toplle WoW is a whole other subject for another thread.
Yeah I wouldn't believe much of what mmogchart puts up there. Those are guesses. And if you want to look at thier charts and NPD findings I think you will find if LOTRO is above FFXI then it is over 500k and not at 150k like the chart says.
MMOGCHART is very clear in their bimonthly stats: and :
0.9 % is about 230.000 subscribers (total being 25.000.000 +).
1.3 % was the highest LOTRO figure obtained in these charts. meaning about 330.000.
If you don't believe the numbers of mmogchart: look at the number of English EU servers of LOTRO: Exactly 5 ! (4 german servers and a french one). The same as launch BTW.
Last time I wanted to check on Wow, I believe it was in the order of 250 servers for Europe alone.
Now I am not saying LOTRO can compete with Wow in numbers but the game is now sold in our country at 7 Euro in one of the biggest chains and after a month still masses can be found in the waste baskets.
So LOTRO was certainly not a BIG succces.
If you don't feel comfortable with these stats: your source doesn't even include Lineage 1 or 2. And EVE on line does indeed have about 400 K subs.
I'm pretty sure the NPD stated they are starting to track electronic game purchases this year so that is probably added into their data.
****************************** Brandywine Global LFF chan "/joinchannel glff"
With the mass hype focusing on the launch of AoC and whether it will be a success or failure I started thinking about the more recent 'big' releases. Pirates of the Burning Sea - Population is sinking faster than any ship in the game and there is no real mega patch that is going to change a whole lot anytime soon. Not successful. Tabula Rasa - Mass hype and population has come and gone. Enough patches have helped it along and it has turned into a niche type game. Not successful but has found a gaming space. Fury - Not played but it was released with a small pop after much talk and I haven't seen any threads about it for ages. Successful...seems not Vanguard Saga of Heroes - Major issues at launch and heavy rig needed to play. Population left in droves and its hard to find another living soul. Not successful.
What were the last big releases that are still successful? WOW, EVE Online? Its a worrying sign and if AoC does gain a healthy following and more importantly keeps it then it will be breaking the trend. Stats say otherwise and I hope they are wrong for the sake of the MMO industry.
If they ever make a game that everything including buildings are made by us.
If combat is skillfull and not sit and watch.
And with good sound and graphics.
Freedom to wear what you want if you got the money to do so.
Player ran and player made game , all skill game with hundred of thousands of skills.
That my friend will keep everyone in the game comeing back to have fun trying to be the best in what ever skill they take up. Selling , would be alot of fun to because you would have items that no one has.And you will sell fast because everyone will come to diff ppl to get stuff they need.
Like if you make potions you will go to someone that has hi skill in picking herbs.
And same with everything else . See it will not be just killing mobs and lvling for nothing.
Todays games you dont need crafting , you dont need skill in anything you do.
Dont need to kill no one because there is nothing to kill for. You dont lose nothing and you dont gain nothing so its boring after you play the first 2 weeks.
So there you have it .
Fun in fighting is fighting for land, mines., lakes, any resoruce .
Then you got to hold this land , that means people will be needed all the time to make stuff for the people defending the land.
have hundreds of thousand skills and items that will keep everyone try to make and do stuff all the time.
I personally think Guild Wars, City of Heroes, World of Warcraft, Eve Online, and Lord of the Rings Online have had successful launches and are still successful.
Unfortunately, as everyone knows, WoW dominates the MMO market. I could go into a huge explanation as to why it dominates it, but I'm not up to that at the moment.
The main thing is, the moment a company tries the untried and does the unexpected, a type of game nobody saw coming, with all the elements we have come to know in MMO history and with a couple of minor tweaks that radically changes the game itself, WoW is doomed.
------------------- Better to keep your mouth shut lest others take you for a fool, then to open it and remove all doubt.
Yeah I wouldn't believe much of what mmogchart puts up there. Those are guesses. And if you want to look at thier charts and NPD findings I think you will find if LOTRO is above FFXI then it is over 500k and not at 150k like the chart says.
MMOGCHART is very clear in their bimonthly stats:
With all due respect to SirBruce and his efforts at MMOGChart, his numbers and his guesses will never be as reliable as the NPD ones, simply due to access. The NPD Group has direct access to actual box sales from retailers, as well as to the developers and their parent corporations. They're in a much greater position than SirBruce in getting more accurate numbers here in the States.
If they've got LOTR Online third in this country after WoW and Runescape, then it's doing a hell of a lot better than MMOGChart suggests.
Yes, LOTRO had a smooth launch. Although, I dont think they got any where near the numbers they were expecting.
Thats because LOTRO was made for children and families, not hardcore MMO Gamers such as myself. I played it for a week before cancelling. Why? because it looked, played, and felt as If I was playing the old Zelda for the first time. MMO hardcore gamers who came from games such as UO, EQ, and even DAOC couldn't get into LOTRO. It wasn't hardcore and challenging enough. Thats one reason why it didn't get the numbers they expected.
Personally, after being in both AOC and WAR beta, I doubt both games will be very successful. Both games have features that will appeal to some people, but also turn off many people. AoC looks amazing, but plays like crap. WAR looks very similar to WoW, BUT the gameplay is more fun. The only problem with WAR is the concept of the game won't appeal to many MMO Vet Gamers.
This is one reason why both games will not be a worldwide success like WoW and the old EQ, both games will probably start out strong, but after a month or two, many people will be dropping off like flies.
Personally, I think the next big MMO will be Stargate Worlds. Until then, find something else to do to pass the time.
Rallithon Oakthornn (Retired Heirophant of the 60th season)
I wager LOTRO and DAOC were some of the smoothest. I recall WoW having a lot of problems during the first month
I rather think that the OP was talking about financial success, so that developers saw good returns on their investments, thus ensuring a long and healthy development cycle. WoWs server problems on launch was down to the fact it was too successful. They even had to stop manufactuing boxes for a while just so they could implement all the new architecture to handle the near-impossibly huge demand.
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
Originally posted by AdamantineOriginally posted by Gammit100
Definitely LOTRO. Hopefully Conan will launch well, but from what I've read, it'll be rough if you don't have a high-end machine. When will developers learn to scale better? WOW does it well...
Are you serious ? WoW can be played on 6 years old computers ... scaling ?!? It has horribly low requirements !
So you like high requirements?
Ok, very badly worded.
My argument was mainly than WoW doesnt scale at all. It just has extremely low requirements from the very start.
A game that really scales would maybe also run on 6 years old computers, but it could at the same time look great on current ones.
I wager LOTRO and DAOC were some of the smoothest. I recall WoW having a lot of problems during the first month
I rather think that the OP was talking about financial success, so that developers saw good returns on their investments, thus ensuring a long and healthy development cycle. WoWs server problems on launch was down to the fact it was too successful. They even had to stop manufactuing boxes for a while just so they could implement all the new architecture to handle the near-impossibly huge demand.
Recant is pretty much on the money Financial success is the key indicator for me as it is a direct indicator whether or not the game has regular subs whilst gaining more each month. I guess I woke up a couple of days ago and thought back through all the major releases and each one has been a fizzle on the grand scheme of things. Do I think a game needs to beat WOW? No and I probably wouldn't be interested in it if it was. I prefer more indie type games like EVE and Jumpgate but it seems we are all on a roller coaster waiting for the next MMO to break new ground but they keep popping on launch! Regardless if I play it or not I just want to see a viable alternative for gamers out there and see another title stick around with some credibility.
I am banking on Jumpgate Evolution being a stable MMO as it is based on a great game to start with. Not for the masses but one to stick around for a while.
Earthrise looks like it has potential as does Stargate.
Darkfall and Heroes Journey are great on the outside but lets see...
I agree on a post earlier regarding AoC and WAR. AoC is for the pixel junkies like me who can run it and WAR is more for the masses but the graghics looks a bit....average.
City of Heroes had a great launch as far as I can recall. Open Beta that everyone could join in on (for free), 3 days in advance for everyone who pre-ordered, and a smooth launch with minimal trouble.
FFXI was pretty smooth also! I was there within the first 3 months at Japanese launch and what I did understand it all worked quite well! Then of course the US launch 2 yrs later was damn near flawless. I was there also but they did have 2 yrs of successful bug stomping before US launch...
Kemih ~ 13 Red Mage | Currently playing FFXI & LOTRO, awaiting Warhammer Online & Aion...
I wasn´t surpricing that Lotr got a so smooth launch since it was so similar to WoW. So in a way it used already tried out techonology and game-mechanics. But the similarity to WoW is also the reason why it isn´t more succesful than it is. People have seen it before.
But I hope that not so smooth launches will not put off people althogheter because then we will never see any truly unique game succed ever, since the audience will be bored to death with stable WoW-clones.
More than a decade ago, the best first person shooters were Quake 2 and Unreal. In mmorpg terms they were like WoW and EQ2 and there were plenty of Quake 2 clones in the making with the basic "shoot many monsters and get bigger guns." And everyone expected the next big thing to be Quake 3 and / or Unreal 2, maybe Prey, Daikatana or Duke Nukem!
The next big thing turned out to be Half life. And it wasn´t a simply brainless shoot-em-up like the others ot wasn´t a Quake rip-off.
I hope there are developers out there that are not just copying WoW as Quake was copied before. But focusing on creating the Half life of mmorpgs.
I wasn´t surpricing that Lotr got a so smooth launch since it was so similar to WoW. So in a way it used already tried out techonology and game-mechanics. But the similarity to WoW is also the reason why it isn´t more succesful than it is. People have seen it before. But I hope that not so smooth launches will not put off people althogheter because then we will never see any truly unique game succed ever, since the audience will be bored to death with stable WoW-clones. More than a decade ago, the best first person shooters were Quake 2 and Unreal. In mmorpg terms they were like WoW and EQ2 and there were plenty of Quake 2 clones in the making with the basic "shoot many monsters and get bigger guns." And everyone expected the next big thing to be Quake 3 and / or Unreal 2, maybe Prey, Daikatana or Duke Nukem! The next big thing turned out to be Half life. And it wasn´t a simply brainless shoot-em-up like the others ot wasn´t a Quake rip-off. I hope there are developers out there that are not just copying WoW as Quake was copied before. But focusing on creating the Half life of mmorpgs. Stable launches be damned.
Couple of points, Lotro had a smooth launch because Turbine has had practice. I was there for AC1, AC2 even Dnd and they were all very smooth launches so no, It being more of a wow clone is not the reason it had a smooth launch. Thats a fallacious argument. It used old technology, yes, but it used Tech from Its own games when it comes to the graphics eng and game mechanics.
Second... Quake ....1996 Quake2...... 1997 Half life ...1998 Unreal....1998 Unreal tournament 1999 Quake3 arena 1999... see the issue I have? nothing bad and I get what you're trying to say but It just loses something when the argument is just so full of holes.
Definitely the answer to the original question is LOTRO. Turbine did a great job. Smooth launch and still going strong. With Mines of Moria it will grow even more. It's not the mega hit that WoW is and will continue to be but LOTRO is definitely more than just a niche product.
As for what will come next, it's hard to say. I think AoC will do ok but I think the next title that could represent solidly might be Warhammer. If either of those fail then we'll probably have to wait until the mega projects of Bethesda, Blizzard, Bioware, or even 38 Studios.
============================== Currently Playing: Lord of the Rings Online since original Open Beta, Atlantica Online Waiting On: Knights of the Old Republic, Aion Played: World of Warcraft (3 years), Ultima Online (2 years), EvE Online, Dark Age of Camelot, Lineage, Perfect World
Wow Trowar, you don't seem to know a single fact about Turbine or its games..never mention any of them in any of your posts for as long as you live
I hate people that talk out of their arse
Quake 3 WAS the next best thing.. how do you manage to know these games yet escape the reality of their popularity? Q3 was a hit with deathmatchers all over the earth which was their target market in the first place..
Do you have any idea how many games also used modified versions of the Quake 3 engine?
here is one hint: HALF-LIFE
Oh and please don't ever compare Quake to WoW, WoW was a dumbed down version of the MMOs before it which appealed to the lowest common denomonator.. Quake became popular because it's multiplayer was fast paced and exciting... the better players got at the game the more advanced the game became
Definitely LOTRO. Hopefully Conan will launch well, but from what I've read, it'll be rough if you don't have a high-end machine. When will developers learn to scale better? WOW does it well...
Are you serious ? WoW can be played on 6 years old computers ... scaling ?!? It has horribly low requirements !
So you like high requirements?
I prefer better looking graphics than graphics that look like they are from 1999.
Why? Because when I'm playing the game (MMO or not), the thing I'm going to notice the most is the graphics. I'm going to have to look at them for however long I play the game for.
As for the question, WoW release was pretty good...it had its problems, but it was still one of the better releases I've played (at the time). Lord of the Rings release (heck even the beta) was superb...wasn't my type of game though, but still the release was really good.
wow release was horrible.
hyjal server was good to horrible for half a year after release.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Folks at MMORPG.COM talk about peanuts these days. You ALL want the latest news ??? Vivendi launched a press release today. At the end of the first quarter of 2008 Wow has now a subscriber base of ... 10.7 million. Active subscribers are those that pay to play the game and those that have acquired the program and are in their first free month of playing. No trial or non active accounts are counted in this figure, As you are all aware Vivendi is the mother Cy of Blizzard and publishes audited financial reports, so better believe 10.7 million people PAY to play Wow. Now WHICH was the last succesful MMO launch again??? How much has the opinion leader public of of MMORPG.COM lost reality on this matter ?
Yes because a game that received numerous awards and game of the year nominations (Lord of the Rings online) is not a successful MMO launch. Plus the fact that Turbine went down in flames after launching shows how unsuccessful it was. Oh wait that is right Turbine just received 50 million dollars in investment for a new game beyond all of the money they received to make Lord of the Rings online.
I think your opinion of a successful MMO launch is highly skewed.
Currently playing: LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too: Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
I have a funny thing to share with you all. When reading this thread, and all of its debate about WoW and numbers therein, an image popped into my head. This image was of all of you...but instead of being forum poster, you were market analysts for all the various companies out there trying to make an MMO right now. It was then that I realized that they are experiencing the VERY SAME FORM of discussion we are here.
No one has a bloody clue why WoW rocks the market. No one has a bloody clue how to emulate the success. Finally, as a result of this, everyone bases their market expectations AND initial game production costs on this fact. Due to this new basis of a 'good market' and a 'failing game'...we can only consider massive success a success at all. Its terrifyingly similar to the "Wal-mart" effect that rippled across the retail scene once its growth and success became prevalent.
You can thank the lovely people in suits for this...you know, the ones who went to college and think they are now educated enough to understand the consumer tendency. Yeah, they have no clue either. Hell, the consumer doesn't even understand himself.
A list of MMO games that werwe succeful just before or after WoW that people have mentioned so far.
Before
Darkage of Camelot, City of Heroes, Ragnarok Online, Anarchy Online, Eve
After
Guild Wars, Lineage 2, Lord of the Rings, Final Fantasy 11, Puzzle Pirates, Maple Story
When Blizzard makes a game it sets a very high standard that many, less creative, companies have a hard time beating. When Warcraft 3 came out, not many RTS games could steal the spot light. When Diablo 2 released with its expansion, no other diablo clones could compare.
It usually takes a good 3 - 5 years for other companies to start competing aginst Blizzard with clone games. 4 years after Warcraft 3; games like Dawn of War, company of Heroes, and Sins of a Solar Empire are able to make a strong standing. Most of them do so well, because they are very different in comparision to Starcraft and Warcraft 3.
people put too much emphasis on numbers. As long as there is 1 good server and i'm having fun. Don't really care.
Yeah, but you also want enough cash to ensure that theres support and development to grow and expand the game.
All in perspective though. If you look at a game like Jumpgate Evolution they have a tiny team and I know the game will be an indie title with a very loyal following but it wont be for the masses and in some ways that is why it will work. Due to development costs etc. Jumpgate will need a minascual amount of revenue compared to WoW to be successful. AoC is a different matter and any other release like WAR, Vanguard etc. They really go for high risk vs high reward methodology...
Comments
Thats why I would be glad if WoW would be "unseated". Not necessarily in numbers of players or profits or whatever. Just that nobody would talk about this crap !
I just dont want to hear what the "Sun" writes about every theme just because the "Sun" is the newspaper with the most readers. Its not the newspaper with the most readers because its a source of quality.
So you like high requirements?
What's the definition of a successful launch? Without that definition we can't answer the question.
My definition is a launch that has stable servers, bug free, and is fun to play and subscription numbers rise. I consider a launch from the day the servers open to its first year.
No game has been bug free or had no server crashes but there a re a few that have signifigantly less than others. DaOC, GW, D&D online, LoTRO online all had smooth launches. LoTRO has to be a record for smooth launches in my experience so I give a big round of applause to Turbine for that. The game is a good game it just is lacking that special something to make it #1, I can't quite put my finger on it.
Most MMO's before WoW had shakey launches, Blizzard raised the standard by introducing a polished game. I think most peopel reconize that and it is what has made every Blizard game I can think of successful.
Now why can't a game toplle WoW is a whole other subject for another thread.
MMOGCHART is very clear in their bimonthly stats: and :
0.9 % is about 230.000 subscribers (total being 25.000.000 +).
1.3 % was the highest LOTRO figure obtained in these charts. meaning about 330.000.
If you don't believe the numbers of mmogchart: look at the number of English EU servers of LOTRO: Exactly 5 ! (4 german servers and a french one). The same as launch BTW.
Last time I wanted to check on Wow, I believe it was in the order of 250 servers for Europe alone.
Now I am not saying LOTRO can compete with Wow in numbers but the game is now sold in our country at 7 Euro in one of the biggest chains and after a month still masses can be found in the waste baskets.
So LOTRO was certainly not a BIG succces.
If you don't feel comfortable with these stats: your source doesn't even include Lineage 1 or 2. And EVE on line does indeed have about 400 K subs.
I'm pretty sure the NPD stated they are starting to track electronic game purchases this year so that is probably added into their data.
******************************
Brandywine Global LFF chan "/joinchannel glff"
If combat is skillfull and not sit and watch.
And with good sound and graphics.
Freedom to wear what you want if you got the money to do so.
Player ran and player made game , all skill game with hundred of thousands of skills.
That my friend will keep everyone in the game comeing back to have fun trying to be the best in what ever skill they take up. Selling , would be alot of fun to because you would have items that no one has.And you will sell fast because everyone will come to diff ppl to get stuff they need.
Like if you make potions you will go to someone that has hi skill in picking herbs.
And same with everything else . See it will not be just killing mobs and lvling for nothing.
Todays games you dont need crafting , you dont need skill in anything you do.
Dont need to kill no one because there is nothing to kill for. You dont lose nothing and you dont gain nothing so its boring after you play the first 2 weeks.
So there you have it .
Fun in fighting is fighting for land, mines., lakes, any resoruce .
Then you got to hold this land , that means people will be needed all the time to make stuff for the people defending the land.
have hundreds of thousand skills and items that will keep everyone try to make and do stuff all the time.
WWIIOnline The Real War!
I personally think Guild Wars, City of Heroes, World of Warcraft, Eve Online, and Lord of the Rings Online have had successful launches and are still successful.
Unfortunately, as everyone knows, WoW dominates the MMO market. I could go into a huge explanation as to why it dominates it, but I'm not up to that at the moment.
The main thing is, the moment a company tries the untried and does the unexpected, a type of game nobody saw coming, with all the elements we have come to know in MMO history and with a couple of minor tweaks that radically changes the game itself, WoW is doomed.
-------------------
Better to keep your mouth shut lest others take you for a fool, then to open it and remove all doubt.
?
MMOGCHART is very clear in their bimonthly stats:
With all due respect to SirBruce and his efforts at MMOGChart, his numbers and his guesses will never be as reliable as the NPD ones, simply due to access. The NPD Group has direct access to actual box sales from retailers, as well as to the developers and their parent corporations. They're in a much greater position than SirBruce in getting more accurate numbers here in the States.
If they've got LOTR Online third in this country after WoW and Runescape, then it's doing a hell of a lot better than MMOGChart suggests.
Thats because LOTRO was made for children and families, not hardcore MMO Gamers such as myself. I played it for a week before cancelling. Why? because it looked, played, and felt as If I was playing the old Zelda for the first time. MMO hardcore gamers who came from games such as UO, EQ, and even DAOC couldn't get into LOTRO. It wasn't hardcore and challenging enough. Thats one reason why it didn't get the numbers they expected.
Personally, after being in both AOC and WAR beta, I doubt both games will be very successful. Both games have features that will appeal to some people, but also turn off many people. AoC looks amazing, but plays like crap. WAR looks very similar to WoW, BUT the gameplay is more fun. The only problem with WAR is the concept of the game won't appeal to many MMO Vet Gamers.
This is one reason why both games will not be a worldwide success like WoW and the old EQ, both games will probably start out strong, but after a month or two, many people will be dropping off like flies.
Personally, I think the next big MMO will be Stargate Worlds. Until then, find something else to do to pass the time.
Rallithon Oakthornn
(Retired Heirophant of the 60th season)
I rather think that the OP was talking about financial success, so that developers saw good returns on their investments, thus ensuring a long and healthy development cycle. WoWs server problems on launch was down to the fact it was too successful. They even had to stop manufactuing boxes for a while just so they could implement all the new architecture to handle the near-impossibly huge demand.
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
So you like high requirements?
Ok, very badly worded.My argument was mainly than WoW doesnt scale at all. It just has extremely low requirements from the very start.
A game that really scales would maybe also run on 6 years old computers, but it could at the same time look great on current ones.
I rather think that the OP was talking about financial success, so that developers saw good returns on their investments, thus ensuring a long and healthy development cycle. WoWs server problems on launch was down to the fact it was too successful. They even had to stop manufactuing boxes for a while just so they could implement all the new architecture to handle the near-impossibly huge demand.
Recant is pretty much on the money
I am banking on Jumpgate Evolution being a stable MMO as it is based on a great game to start with. Not for the masses but one to stick around for a while.
Earthrise looks like it has potential as does Stargate.
Darkfall and Heroes Journey are great on the outside but lets see...
I agree on a post earlier regarding AoC and WAR. AoC is for the pixel junkies like me who can run it and WAR is more for the masses but the graghics looks a bit....average.
The rest for me are average...
City of Heroes had a great launch as far as I can recall. Open Beta that everyone could join in on (for free), 3 days in advance for everyone who pre-ordered, and a smooth launch with minimal trouble.
FFXI was pretty smooth also! I was there within the first 3 months at Japanese launch and what I did understand it all worked quite well! Then of course the US launch 2 yrs later was damn near flawless. I was there also but they did have 2 yrs of successful bug stomping before US launch...
Kemih ~ 13 Red Mage | Currently playing FFXI & LOTRO, awaiting Warhammer Online & Aion...
I wasn´t surpricing that Lotr got a so smooth launch since it was so similar to WoW. So in a way it used already tried out techonology and game-mechanics. But the similarity to WoW is also the reason why it isn´t more succesful than it is. People have seen it before.
But I hope that not so smooth launches will not put off people althogheter because then we will never see any truly unique game succed ever, since the audience will be bored to death with stable WoW-clones.
More than a decade ago, the best first person shooters were Quake 2 and Unreal. In mmorpg terms they were like WoW and EQ2 and there were plenty of Quake 2 clones in the making with the basic "shoot many monsters and get bigger guns." And everyone expected the next big thing to be Quake 3 and / or Unreal 2, maybe Prey, Daikatana or Duke Nukem!
The next big thing turned out to be Half life. And it wasn´t a simply brainless shoot-em-up like the others ot wasn´t a Quake rip-off.
I hope there are developers out there that are not just copying WoW as Quake was copied before. But focusing on creating the Half life of mmorpgs.
Stable launches be damned.
Second... Quake ....1996 Quake2...... 1997 Half life ...1998 Unreal....1998 Unreal tournament 1999 Quake3 arena 1999... see the issue I have? nothing bad and I get what you're trying to say but It just loses something when the argument is just so full of holes.
Definitely the answer to the original question is LOTRO. Turbine did a great job. Smooth launch and still going strong. With Mines of Moria it will grow even more. It's not the mega hit that WoW is and will continue to be but LOTRO is definitely more than just a niche product.
As for what will come next, it's hard to say. I think AoC will do ok but I think the next title that could represent solidly might be Warhammer. If either of those fail then we'll probably have to wait until the mega projects of Bethesda, Blizzard, Bioware, or even 38 Studios.
==============================
Currently Playing: Lord of the Rings Online since original Open Beta, Atlantica Online
Waiting On: Knights of the Old Republic, Aion
Played: World of Warcraft (3 years), Ultima Online (2 years), EvE Online, Dark Age of Camelot, Lineage, Perfect World
Wow Trowar, you don't seem to know a single fact about Turbine or its games..never mention any of them in any of your posts for as long as you live
I hate people that talk out of their arse
Quake 3 WAS the next best thing.. how do you manage to know these games yet escape the reality of their popularity? Q3 was a hit with deathmatchers all over the earth which was their target market in the first place..
Do you have any idea how many games also used modified versions of the Quake 3 engine?
here is one hint: HALF-LIFE
Oh and please don't ever compare Quake to WoW, WoW was a dumbed down version of the MMOs before it which appealed to the lowest common denomonator.. Quake became popular because it's multiplayer was fast paced and exciting... the better players got at the game the more advanced the game became
So you like high requirements?
I prefer better looking graphics than graphics that look like they are from 1999.
Why? Because when I'm playing the game (MMO or not), the thing I'm going to notice the most is the graphics. I'm going to have to look at them for however long I play the game for.
As for the question, WoW release was pretty good...it had its problems, but it was still one of the better releases I've played (at the time). Lord of the Rings release (heck even the beta) was superb...wasn't my type of game though, but still the release was really good.
wow release was horrible.
hyjal server was good to horrible for half a year after release.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
people put too much emphasis on numbers. As long as there is 1 good server and i'm having fun. Don't really care.
I think your opinion of a successful MMO launch is highly skewed.
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
I have a funny thing to share with you all. When reading this thread, and all of its debate about WoW and numbers therein, an image popped into my head. This image was of all of you...but instead of being forum poster, you were market analysts for all the various companies out there trying to make an MMO right now. It was then that I realized that they are experiencing the VERY SAME FORM of discussion we are here.
No one has a bloody clue why WoW rocks the market. No one has a bloody clue how to emulate the success. Finally, as a result of this, everyone bases their market expectations AND initial game production costs on this fact. Due to this new basis of a 'good market' and a 'failing game'...we can only consider massive success a success at all. Its terrifyingly similar to the "Wal-mart" effect that rippled across the retail scene once its growth and success became prevalent.
You can thank the lovely people in suits for this...you know, the ones who went to college and think they are now educated enough to understand the consumer tendency. Yeah, they have no clue either. Hell, the consumer doesn't even understand himself.
A list of MMO games that werwe succeful just before or after WoW that people have mentioned so far.
Before
Darkage of Camelot, City of Heroes, Ragnarok Online, Anarchy Online, Eve
After
Guild Wars, Lineage 2, Lord of the Rings, Final Fantasy 11, Puzzle Pirates, Maple Story
When Blizzard makes a game it sets a very high standard that many, less creative, companies have a hard time beating. When Warcraft 3 came out, not many RTS games could steal the spot light. When Diablo 2 released with its expansion, no other diablo clones could compare.
It usually takes a good 3 - 5 years for other companies to start competing aginst Blizzard with clone games. 4 years after Warcraft 3; games like Dawn of War, company of Heroes, and Sins of a Solar Empire are able to make a strong standing. Most of them do so well, because they are very different in comparision to Starcraft and Warcraft 3.
Yeah, but you also want enough cash to ensure that theres support and development to grow and expand the game.
Yeah, but you also want enough cash to ensure that theres support and development to grow and expand the game.
All in perspective though. If you look at a game like Jumpgate Evolution they have a tiny team and I know the game will be an indie title with a very loyal following but it wont be for the masses and in some ways that is why it will work. Due to development costs etc. Jumpgate will need a minascual amount of revenue compared to WoW to be successful. AoC is a different matter and any other release like WAR, Vanguard etc. They really go for high risk vs high reward methodology...