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Lameness that I have seen so far.
Ikonic
Member UncommonPosts: 310
Overall I like the game, but playing on a PvP server there are some things need to change.
Loading Screen camping, this is pathetic. Something should of been in game from start about this.
Instance Swapping running. How lame is it that you can fight someone and they can swap out of the instance instantly?
FC needs to fix these on the PvP servers.
Comments
I wrote about this in my review (Read it Here). It is a significant issue to those who want some sort of 'unspoken' PvP honor. To those who like FFA, no rules, no regrets...this is it.
Torrential: DAOC (Pendragon)
Awned: World of Warcraft (Lothar)
Torren: Warhammer Online (Praag)
People would camp zone in points, attack people, if a close fight showed up, they just zoned away.
A lot of the cheesy tactics on eq2 are due to titles and people worried about their kvd ratio. Maybe aoc wont have the title whores, time will tell.
Regarding the zone out escape.
Not to toot my on horn because anyone with a basic intelligence would have foreseen this happening but I did get a responce months ago by a dev saying they would put in a small timer. I guess they never got around to it.
Spawn camp thing is so obvious and broken. It makes no sense for even those are hardcore pvp as I.
I have killed many a people aoeing the spawn camp and I have also been chain raped there as well.
The Instance swapping is a bigger conern than Loading area camping. You can instant swap anywhere that has an instance #.
Also, PvP XP is broken outside of minigames so farming people is pointless.
i just think you don't gain pvp exp at lower lvls. i think it comes into play at 80 or close to it. not sure tho.
Why they dont they tell us then whats the reason for it to be secret.
It never works. Because societies fail under chaos. MMOs are mini civilizations and require at least some rudimentary laws. There isn't any way to do this... so all the gaming companies can do it try for the rediculous pipe-dream of balance through nerfing.
What ends up happening is that the 90% of the people playing the game stay away from PvP yet get beaten to death with nerfs that have nothing to do with their game mechanics.
"The reality of the poor in America isn't the difference between The Haves and The Have Nots, it is the difference between The Haves and The Have Lots."
The split is generally pretty close to 50%/50% these days and the 50% that play on PvE only servers also play PvP minigames etc so it is more like 70% of the player base dictating what happens to the other 30%. Even then there are PvE nerfs that happen that hurt PvP as well so I guess I disagree.
I don't think anyone is complaining about the FFA PvP ruleset, they are just complaining that Funcom didn't address some very basic problems that anyone who played PvP for a single day could point out. How they thought letting people spawn at 10% health and be attacked before their client finished loading was a good idea is beyond me, seems like they just ignored and figured they would fix it later.
They should put something there so players can zone safely ,the the player should decide too make a run for it or have friends help him or her too get ware they need too go.
Open world pvp is not a myth lol
I think Lineage 2 had it right in regards to pvp. There was no such thing as a pvp server, all servers gave the option to pk someone but at a price. Your character would go into a sort of negative karma which you had to work off by grinding xp. While in this state your character was vulnerable and labeled as a player killer with your name displayed in red. If anyone killed you in this state(before you were able to restore yourself) you ran the risk of dropping your equipment which could be rare and valueable items. When it came time to castle seige it was lawful to kill the opposing players in the area of the seige so the penalty was not applied.
This system gave the freedom of pk-ing and ganking players but there was a risk in doing so, thus eliminating complete chaos. People who did this at high levels were few and far between, but it added just enough drama to the game (as being outlaws) without overdoing it.
WIth all I'm hearing I'm starting to lean more toward the pve server knowing that the pvp is still available but only in the border areas and seiges.
It never works. Because societies fail under chaos. MMOs are mini civilizations and require at least some rudimentary laws. There isn't any way to do this... so all the gaming companies can do it try for the rediculous pipe-dream of balance through nerfing.
What ends up happening is that the 90% of the people playing the game stay away from PvP yet get beaten to death with nerfs that have nothing to do with their game mechanics.
Well said and, most unfortunately, accurate.
It never works. Because societies fail under chaos. MMOs are mini civilizations and require at least some rudimentary laws. There isn't any way to do this... so all the gaming companies can do it try for the rediculous pipe-dream of balance through nerfing.
What ends up happening is that the 90% of the people playing the game stay away from PvP yet get beaten to death with nerfs that have nothing to do with their game mechanics.
I agree to an extent. It truly depends on the community.I've played FFA pvp before, but there was "good" "evil" and "neutral" guilds. The good protected the innocent.. the evil hunted them out.. the neutral fought only in defense.
In time the community will develop and guilds will form to do just as such.. its happened in every game i've played a pvp server (look at my game list and you'll know).
I not agree with res or zone ganking.. an immunity timer should be applied when both occur. Hopefully FC adds one in time.
Let me see if I understand this...
I was in OB, and experienced the Loading Screen camping. If I zoned out of a city, by the time my loading screen would finish, I would be dead. I would spawn at the closest spawn point, and again, by the time my loading screen would finish, I was dead again from the spawn point campers. You mean to tell me this is the same way in the retail that it was in OB?
Secondly, if I am in a PVP fight, and things aren't going my way, I can just type in the command "/instancenumber <num>", or whatever the command is, and I am instantly zoned into that instance, and out of danger? I never knew a command like that existed.
Is that really how the game is set up right now? Pretty unfortunate if this is true.
PvP servers are lame. Not really much point to them unless you want to grief or be griefed.
I just wish they would add a duel feature to PvE servers.
To avoid this all they need to do is put on like a 5 seconds spawn protection buff or something. Nothing more, nothing less.
This is why PvP always fails in MMO games. If there are rules the kids cry; if there are no rules, same.It never works. Because societies fail under chaos. MMOs are mini civilizations and require at least some rudimentary laws. There isn't any way to do this... so all the gaming companies can do it try for the rediculous pipe-dream of balance through nerfing.
What ends up happening is that the 90% of the people playing the game stay away from PvP yet get beaten to death with nerfs that have nothing to do with their game mechanics.
Hogwash.
I suppose that DAoC PvP was a failure as well?
EVE online and Guild Wars, hmm?
Creating an enjoyable PvP environment takes game design skill and effort and I see precious little of those applied to AoC. Awesome gfx and carefully scripted quests cannot compensate for poor game design. It's like buying an enormous huge boardgame with all the colored plastic bits which plays like grandma's nap because the publishers never thought of actually thinking about the game's rules... "Hey the sheep are buying our games for shiny plastic anyway."
It never works. Because societies fail under chaos. MMOs are mini civilizations and require at least some rudimentary laws. There isn't any way to do this... so all the gaming companies can do it try for the rediculous pipe-dream of balance through nerfing.
What ends up happening is that the 90% of the people playing the game stay away from PvP yet get beaten to death with nerfs that have nothing to do with their game mechanics.
Hogwash.
I suppose that DAoC PvP was a failure as well?
EVE online and Guild Wars, hmm?
Creating an enjoyable PvP environment takes game design skill and effort and I see precious little of those applied to AoC. Awesome gfx and carefully scripted quests cannot compensate for poor game design. It's like buying an enormous huge boardgame with all the colored plastic bits which plays like grandma's nap because the publishers never thought of actually thinking about the game's rules... "Hey the sheep are buying our games for shiny plastic anyway."
DAOC is not FFA PVP , but faction PVP
EVE anti-ganking rule is that fact that death is significant loss
Guild Wars has no form of open PVP whatsoever
This is why PvP always fails in MMO games. If there are rules the kids cry; if there are no rules, same.It never works. Because societies fail under chaos. MMOs are mini civilizations and require at least some rudimentary laws. There isn't any way to do this... so all the gaming companies can do it try for the rediculous pipe-dream of balance through nerfing.
What ends up happening is that the 90% of the people playing the game stay away from PvP yet get beaten to death with nerfs that have nothing to do with their game mechanics.
Hogwash.
I suppose that DAoC PvP was a failure as well?
EVE online and Guild Wars, hmm?
Creating an enjoyable PvP environment takes game design skill and effort and I see precious little of those applied to AoC. Awesome gfx and carefully scripted quests cannot compensate for poor game design. It's like buying an enormous huge boardgame with all the colored plastic bits which plays like grandma's nap because the publishers never thought of actually thinking about the game's rules... "Hey the sheep are buying our games for shiny plastic anyway."
DAOC is not FFA PVP , but faction PVP
EVE anti-ganking rule is that fact that death is significant loss
Guild Wars has no form of open PVP whatsoever
Exactly.
The OP was talking about PvP in general and how it "doesn't work".
In all of the above games PvP features prominently but it is well thought out and made meaningful through skillful game design.
FFA PvP is not a game design solution - it is a lack of game design.
In addition for PvP to work successfully the rest of the game must be designed with that in mind. I can't see that in AoC at all. We'll soon be seeing "it was always meant to be a PvE game" line I think.
Props to Markoraos; this sums up what i've been experiencing so far in AoC.
So how come you don't get lynch mobbed by angry fanboi's when saying that and i do?
I'm just curious mark, other than RvR what do YOU consider to be a good PvP system? In my opinion the basic tools need to be given to the players.. I'm going to say this again - (this is in no way saying I don't think Funcom need to fix some things in PvP so we'll see) Asheron's Call was THE best PvP game I have played and it was completely unintentional by the devs.. they slowly realized what a gem they had and gave the PvP content some support to fix PvP bugs etc but they did not mess with the basic formula that made it great
AoC tries too hard with their rediculous minigames as a main attraction for PvP.. they need to get more involved in the world wide FFA PvP.. as it stands now you do not get any PvP experience when killing in the open world.. this could be because retail isn't live yet but I'm not sure. I want to see guilds fighting for hunting spots.. fighting for questing spots and all of that.. (seems like it will happen this way)
multiple instances per zone WILL ruin this game for PvP if it turns out to be true...
There is no real penalty for dying so PvP Fails.
I love the FFA PvP, and yes ive been ganked alot in EA hehe, but i don't really mind. But then again im an UO player also hehe.
But i think we can al agree about the "screen-load-camping" needs to be fixed.
And maybe to make it a bit fair for people that instance jump would be to only let the people attacked able to do so. If you attack someone else you can't not do it for 1 min. or so.
Playing: League of Legends!
Only way to create meaningful FFA PVP is to give players a tool to punish griefers.
So far AOC has probably the worst PVP ruleset ever to grace MMO. Heck , it is even more primitive than Unreal Tournament deathmach.
Griefer can camp respawn points , quest givers , quest points , loading points - get many sweet kills. And the worse thing players can do to punish you, is to kill you.
That is 10:1 kill:punish ratio , no mater how you look at it , its a great deal for griefer.
Only way to make FFA work , is to make death hurt. But that is might to hardcore.
Thats why smart people from NC soft implemented great system in LINEAGE2.
Short time after griefing , player is marked RED. Which means whoever kills him , can fully loot his body.
In L2 it is not uncommon for whole servers to hunt such RED griefers all over.
If this system could be implemented in AOC, it would quickly solve all the problems.
But i guess it is above FC programming skills