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NO OPEN WORLD IN AOC!!!!
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Correct. I was editing my post as you posted this. Like I edited I would compair AOC more to City of Heroes style. They do the exact same there, and I agree my statment of EVE being instanced is wrong, it's zoned.
SHOHADAKU
No... AoC IS a height map with meshes placed on it, just like WoW (minus the portal system that WoW has that allows seamless transitions to indoor areas).
The terrain is precompiled into a set of tiling meshes, but that's an implementation detail.
I say it still reminds me more of a mesh built system rather than a height map, the landscape has too many 'sheer' cliffs to truly be a height map generated system.
Edit:
I will admit, I could be wrong about it not being a heightmap system, I just remembered a game that uses such a system that then precompiles that heightmap into a mesh. NwN2. But the whole this is still treated as a mesh in rendering, so the concept still stand on what i'm saying, just not how they got the terrain in the first place.
sho,
I did not know that they had player to player collision detection in EVE, I couldn't get past the tutorial in that game
So, no game other than EVE has attempted it 
Imagine the asshattery that would ensue if people were allowed to block building entrances in WoW with their bodies. Nobody would be able to resist it.
Those cliffs are meshes placed along the terrain. They did that a lot in shadowlands (the first AO expansion pack).
(I used to be a programmer on AoC's level editor btw)
And your point don't stand, since it would be possible to stream those (and as far as I remember, they ARE stream loaded anyway)
There is much more involved in making an open, seamless world than just streaming the graphic assets from disk, though.
I haven't had a chance to try AoC yet. I do not understand why they would have made the game like DDO and less like LoTRO? I play LoTRO atm and I can go all the way from one edge of the map to the other without zone loading and without instancing. AoC should easily be able to do this unless its graphics are 2 or 3 times better then LoTRO's?
a lot of game engines do support collision but are turned off to prevent abuse. For example with collision in Wow players can easily surround and lock down a melee boss in 25 mans while the mage or lock grabs aggro and tanks it from a distance safely. Anyway city of heroes has collision but was reduced but they added logic for players to slip thru eventually to prevent abuse even then you pull off the exploit i mentioned above with AVs.
Lets not forget "door blockers" lol
After a post like this I'm always curious about the poster's age and his country of origin.
This is the crowd funcom made the game for, Not real pvp'ers. So silly , i just wannt cry when i read your post.
Pvp is good when it comes to camping, thats when it is really fun
I dont need fast progress or leet item, i want pvp while playing even if it might be to get my quest item and if u are weak or bad player, to bad, you dont get what you can't take.
Those cliffs are meshes placed along the terrain. They did that a lot in shadowlands (the first AO expansion pack).
(I used to be a programmer on AoC's level editor btw)
And your point don't stand, since it would be possible to stream those (and as far as I remember, they ARE stream loaded anyway)
There is much more involved in making an open, seamless world than just streaming the graphic assets from disk, though.
I disagree, the issue here is how much stuff would need to be held in ram at any given point of time. The more complex the data structure, the more memory it would take up. I'm sure they could stream it in (this is what Vanguard tried to do really). If you had to preload all of that structural data, then you would need a far more powerful machine to do it. Is it impossible? No, was this the better way? Probably. That is why I said my point stood
Give them about another 3 years to get the baseline of machines up to where we are running 5ghz Quad processors and 4-8gb ram is the norm and I think they'll be able to do a full streaming system with all the collision detection and high end graphics, but they stimply aren't there now.
Thanks for the info on how they do the cliffs and such, tis good to know
I've played around with 3d programming, but I've studied more than I've applied as I am a horrible coder, unfortunately... But I do love to read on the stuff, it is very interesting.
-----------------------------------------------------------
the old days, the days of gold.
representer of euhporium, shade/amity , high member of the council.
played
UO,M59,EVE,L2,AC,GW,WOW,LOTRO,SWG pre cu/nge,COH/COV, VG,TR,L1, POTBS,Neocron 1 and 2, DAOC pre TOA and age of conan
playing: EVE ONLINE
Waiting for Earthrise, FE, bioware mmo, guild wars 2, DFO , mortal online , the chronicles of spellborn
Age Of Conan:MMORPG?No ,it isn't.Age Of Conan:(Almost/demi-)CORPG or sort of this?Yes, it is. It's up to tastes,but I'm sick of GW-DDO-EQ (instancing)and the likes of them.That's that.OT*Ninja-edit:can you reach level 60 out of 80 in just a week?!
OT*
for the 5,000th time, this game is NOT like DDO and/or GW. It uses a dynamically generated zone instance system, where the zones are created based upon total population, not for a single person/group.
YOU WILL NOT BE IN A ZONE BY YOURSELF!
I hate to yell like that, but sheesh, people just dont' seem to be getting it.
The game is closer to design to EQ2 than DDO/GW!
Problem is, if someone is having a hard time liking this game. Then by nature, it is hard for them to continue to play to go any higher.
I canceled my sub. the 2nd day it started. Worked two more days and just today I tried to play some more. Coldn't play more than an hour. Finger were killing me from having to spam 1,2,3 - 1,2,3 - 1,2,3. If it takes 20 + hours of boring game play just to get out of the tutorial, then how are we suppose to push forward to the, as you all say, fun stuff???
Yes the game plays smooth. Yes it has beautiful graphics. Yes it's launch was pretty good. Does that in it's self make it a game from the Gods? No! Pretty graphics and smooth game play is the norm these days. Compnies need to wow us with the whole game! Aoc just doesn't do that. I guess it does come down to personal taste. I my self am a hard customer to please. I piss away hundreds a month on games to just see what it is like. I do that, because I can. I have loaded AoC on 4 out of 5 of my computer to see how it stacks up on different tech. I personaly had no problem on any of them. They range from a P4 3.0Ghz to a quad Q6600.
Most peoples problem with AoC is they are disappointed with all the hype Funcom put out over the game. Alone with the "fanboi" review from their lackies. AoC is a okay game, if you a easily impressed and sort of new to the MMO world. By new, I am meaning less than 5 years of MMOing or only play one or two other MMO's. I have play all major MMO's in the last 10 years. A open world free of levels with wonderfull graphics, with a simple, yet in depth combat system is what will get my attention. As of yet, there are no MMO's that have all that. Example. Make a UO style game with todays technology. UO had hit it on the nose 10 years ago. It's a shame they don't remake it. And I stopped playing UO in 2001.
I am still waiting to have that fuzzy feeling again. No other game did it for me since. No even AoC. I hopes and prayers are on Fallen Earth. I just hope any future MMO wont force a 20 level tutorial or force quests on anyone.
Now let the childish flameboi hit me for thinking outside the box.
Problem is, if someone is having a hard time liking this game. Then by nature, it is hard for them to continue to play to go any higher.
I canceled my sub. the 2nd day it started. Worked two more days and just today I tried to play some more. Coldn't play more than an hour. Finger were killing me from having to spam 1,2,3 - 1,2,3 - 1,2,3. If it takes 20 + hours of boring game play just to get out of the tutorial, then how are we suppose to push forward to the, as you all say, fun stuff???
Yes the game plays smooth. Yes it has beautiful graphics. Yes it's launch was pretty good. Does that in it's self make it a game from the Gods? No! Pretty graphics and smooth game play is the norm these days. Compnies need to wow us with the whole game! Aoc just doesn't do that. I guess it does come down to personal taste. I my self am a hard customer to please. I piss away hundreds a month on games to just see what it is like. I do that, because I can. I have loaded AoC on 4 out of 5 of my computer to see how it stacks up on different tech. I personaly had no problem on any of them. They range from a P4 3.0Ghz to a quad Q6600.
Most peoples problem with AoC is they are disappointed with all the hype Funcom put out over the game. Alone with the "fanboi" review from their lackies. AoC is a okay game, if you a easily impressed and sort of new to the MMO world. By new, I am meaning less than 5 years of MMOing or only play one or two other MMO's. I have play all major MMO's in the last 10 years. A open world free of levels with wonderfull graphics, with a simple, yet in depth combat system is what will get my attention. As of yet, there are no MMO's that have all that. Example. Make a UO style game with todays technology. UO had hit it on the nose 10 years ago. It's a shame they don't remake it. And I stopped playing UO in 2001.
I am still waiting to have that fuzzy feeling again. No other game did it for me since. No even AoC. I hopes and prayers are on Fallen Earth. I just hope any future MMO wont force a 20 level tutorial or force quests on anyone.
Now let the childish flameboi hit me for thinking outside the box.
I disagree with your classification about who would like the game. I'm personally loving it and I've played nigh on every MMO that is out there. Have I hit them all? No, but I've played alot of them and betaed even more than that. Been playing MMOs since may of 1999 (Asheron's call), and I've not been as excited or as pleased with a game since AC as I am with AoC.
Opinions differ, just because mine does doesn't mean I'm a MMO newb (so to speak)
Problem is, if someone is having a hard time liking this game. Then by nature, it is hard for them to continue to play to go any higher.
I canceled my sub. the 2nd day it started. Worked two more days and just today I tried to play some more. Coldn't play more than an hour. Finger were killing me from having to spam 1,2,3 - 1,2,3 - 1,2,3. If it takes 20 + hours of boring game play just to get out of the tutorial, then how are we suppose to push forward to the, as you all say, fun stuff???
Yes the game plays smooth. Yes it has beautiful graphics. Yes it's launch was pretty good. Does that in it's self make it a game from the Gods? No! Pretty graphics and smooth game play is the norm these days. Compnies need to wow us with the whole game! Aoc just doesn't do that. I guess it does come down to personal taste. I my self am a hard customer to please. I piss away hundreds a month on games to just see what it is like. I do that, because I can. I have loaded AoC on 4 out of 5 of my computer to see how it stacks up on different tech. I personaly had no problem on any of them. They range from a P4 3.0Ghz to a quad Q6600.
Most peoples problem with AoC is they are disappointed with all the hype Funcom put out over the game. Alone with the "fanboi" review from their lackies. AoC is a okay game, if you a easily impressed and sort of new to the MMO world. By new, I am meaning less than 5 years of MMOing or only play one or two other MMO's. I have play all major MMO's in the last 10 years. A open world free of levels with wonderfull graphics, with a simple, yet in depth combat system is what will get my attention. As of yet, there are no MMO's that have all that. Example. Make a UO style game with todays technology. UO had hit it on the nose 10 years ago. It's a shame they don't remake it. And I stopped playing UO in 2001.
I am still waiting to have that fuzzy feeling again. No other game did it for me since. No even AoC. I hopes and prayers are on Fallen Earth. I just hope any future MMO wont force a 20 level tutorial or force quests on anyone.
Now let the childish flameboi hit me for thinking outside the box.
I disagree with your classification about who would like the game. I'm personally loving it and I've played nigh on every MMO that is out there. Have I hit them all? No, but I've played alot of them and betaed even more than that. Been playing MMOs since may of 1999 (Asheron's call), and I've not been as excited or as pleased with a game since AC as I am with AoC.
Opinions differ, just because mine does doesn't mean I'm a MMO newb (so to speak)
Please reread deeper. I stated most people that had a problem. I also said it comes down to personal tastes too. I am really glad you enjoy your AoC gaming. I only try to offer the other side of it. Every thing has two sides. Pro and con. I mayself am on the con side. I am sure there are alot of people that want and need to hear both side before making up their minds on buying game. Not everyone can afford to dish out $50 or more on a game on a wim. I too waiting with excitement for this game for any months. I read and watched everything. In the end, I was disappointed. My tastes differ from your, and thats okay.
I was only trying to say: I want an open-world with lesser marvellous graphic and more PC's action-talking around me, more people to meet.Not so instanced,not so zoned,not so game-immersion breaker.Too many pvp/pve campers?Raise respawn rate and put some guard patroIs,I'm/I will get used to them.IMHO.BIG QUOTE to scarothers8(can't remember full nick).
I'm probably going out to purchase the game today to check it out but.. thought I'd try to comment here as I think I understand what the original poster was getting at.
Having too many instances, more than just the dungeon zones... can detract from believing that you really are immersed in a common world. And can seriously detract from what you can do especially wrt to the PvP aspects.
Imagine realizing that your player keep is under attack (or will be soon).
Obviously you defend it but perhaps you also
send out scout squads to let you know what and who is coming to the field. If the neighboring zones are instanced.. thats pretty tough to do yes? I mean.. people could walk right past your scouts without detection because they were int he same zone as your scout, but in a different instance.
And you couldn't camp the choke points either.. since again.. once they realize you are camping the choke point in instance3, they all swap to instance4 instead and bypass you.
Having read the bulk of the posts here, I am somewhat disappointed to hear about this 'instancing' of the game. Also, a lot of people seem to have confused the issue with 'zoning', which is a completely different question altogther, and not relevant to what the OP was saying.
I was about to upgrade my pc, so that I could try this game, but now I am having second thoughts. I knew about the 'zoning' and as I liked EQ2, it was not a major issue for me. However, if the outside world is instanced, as in a game like 'guild wars' that changes everything for me. So, before I spend money on this, how much instancing happens in the game? Is the gameplay akin to Guild Wars? If so, then I shall just wait for the x-box launch next year.
Also, in an unrelated topic. Shadenis: I noticed in your sig that you have played most of the major MMO's out there, but not EQ1 or 2, and was just curious as to why? No other reason, other than I am a nosey bugger!
This does not mean you can't ever play with your friends or anything like that. Now, it DOES mean you can't gank to your heart's content. If someone feels griefed they can change instances. And it does mena you won't have overcrowding and spawn competition as badly as some other games.
Now on the flip, there are some downsides. but the game's pretty, I like the class system, the world, the combat engine, etc...so to me it's worth any negative impact instancing might have. It's not like GW though. When you leave a city, you and/or your party are NOT the only ones in that copy of the outside zone. The only time instancing comes to play is when there's too many people in a copy of a zone, or if a player manually chooses to leave that copy for some reason. Otherwise, you're all together.
I'm so dissapointed and even pissed.....lol
I've read 16 freaking pages only to see that the majority of people confuse "instances" to "zones". They think instances are zones and they "defend" the instaned AoC talking about zones.
Let me explain it very simple. Say the game's map is Europe. The different zones are the different countries. So once you walk to the borders of Germany you're going to enter a different zone that is -lets say- France. Now, if there are enough people in France already, the game creates a copy (instance) of France. France Nr. 2. So say the limit of people who can be in one copy of France is 100, then the 101st person that enters France (#1), he will actually enter France #2. This is the difference of a zone (France, as an area) and instances (copies of France like France #1, France #2 etc because each copy of France (istances) can only have (lets say) only 100 people playing inside).
Now, let me put it again very simple. A game having many zones is not a real problem. There's no big deal if you have a load screen every once in a while if you travel from Germany to France to Spain etc. In some games those zones are bigger than others, not a big problem. However, the different copies (instances) ARE a big (huge) problem. Why?
Let me put it very simple.
PvE-ers have no problem with instances. less people camping their good spots, less people going after the same mobs for their quests, less people (etc etc), as well as less lag etc.
PvP-ers (like me) however, absolutely loath (hate) instances. Why? Because if some freakin ass**** attacked me as I was XPing earlier with 2 mobs on me and low health and killed me, and I want to hunt him down and get revenge, and he runs out of Germany to France and he ends up in France #2 while I end up in France #3 because France #2 maxed out in population, I don't want to spend the rest of my time guessing where the freakin dude went, or all the more so, not being able to go (enter) where he went. And hey, that was a simple example. If any of you played Lineage II he'd understand me. Say a group of my guild of like 16 people are XPing in some place and a party of an enemy guild of 25 people comes, takes us by surprise and kills (most of) us. So now we want to take revenge. We gather a group of 25-30 people and go after them. But hey, we can NOT go after them, because even if we KNOW they are in England, they are in England #1 and we can NOT enter England #1 because it has max population. We tried and we entered England #2. So that's it. End of the fight, end of the day, end of story. A game that has instanced zones is not an open world game, PERIOD. When you can not find your enemies to hunt them, when you can not raid the area they are XPing to cause them trouble or take revenge for whatever reason, when you just stay in different copies of the same world and have them laugh at you because they ganged you earlier and there's nothing you can do now to revenge them then............
.. to heck with it.
Eve online had many zones but there was no problem. Because if you entered a zone (a system called XYZ lets say), that was it. One system, one zone for all inside. If your enemies were there you WOULD gonna find them and fight with them. Who gave a shit if there was thousands of zones? Nobody. Because it was ONE world (one instance for all). The good, the neutral and the bad, the friends and the enemies all there for whoever to do anything he liked. Lineage II was the same. Some dude killed you? You had a spy or a friend who tipped you where he was? You could go and FIND him and take your revenge. Simple as that. Now he's gonna say "hey, that guy who killed you was sighted in France #2 but he was seen zoning out to Germany, so he might be anywhere between Germany #1 and Germany #123 - good luck) lol
Fuck it.
As I said, instances are for PvE-ers. PvPers want to have their friends close and their enemies even closer.
Enjoy.
SO THERE ARE ZONES,SO WHAT I WILL STILL PLAY. GG
"masterjedi is gonna play AoC, whoppie doo".
End-game PVP is gona be so broken it's not even funny.