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Court orders return of sect children to parents==DISPICABLE
jackwhite
Member Posts: 106
I am sure many of you have heard of the story. I cannot believe that the children are going back to their parents and to the "ranch." These children are brainwashed. They are taught to believe that a man must have 30 wives and a girl must get married at 13 and have 10 kids. It is really sad that the judge ruled them to be in "no immediate harm." I have watched so many videos and read articles on how the girls are treated. HELL their leader was on the FBI's most wanted list and he is on trial in four states for rape as accomplice. It just saddens me that the children have to go back. What are your thoughts?
Comments
It's too bad but those kids are already screwed up for life. I don't know much about law and why they had to be released back to their "parents" custody but whatever it is it's friggin stupid.
"Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves." ~ Ronald Reagan
they had to be released back because the Police didn't provide enough evidence that the kids were being abused.
the state of Texas went in without due process of law.
You cannot barge into private property and take children away based on one person on the telephone (who turned out to be a fake with a past criminal convictions of filing false reports).
It all boils down to due process of law. The State of Texas Children Protection Agency had no legal right to do what they did and in my opinion, those who made that decision should be fired and prosecuted.
Do I condone polygamy? No, not at all
Do I condone a 18+ year old man marrying a minor? No I dont but, at the time in Texas, it was legal until 6 months ago.
What if your next door neighbor called and reported you for abusing your child? Woudlnt you hope that the child protection agency at least investigate the claim first before taking your child away?
Also, i find it interesting that the law felt they could take these children away without due process of law and proof but when it come to this guy www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi there was proof he was downloading kiddie porn, doing stuff in front of his kids as he told everything to an undercover cop thinking she was a S&M master. Funny thing is....he was allowed to keep his kids. But if a woman from Colorado calls down to Texas pretending to be a teenager girl who was raped then its ok if all the kids were taken away from the Ranch,
Sounds like a double standard to me
There. I said my peace and give a "legal" representation of why they were forced back lol. Im done posting in here now lol. Ive exhausted this topic a few times.
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
Here's an article on what happened, for those who don't know.
From The NY Times (www.nytimes.com/2008/05/29/us/29cnd-raid.html)
Court Rules Sect Children Should Go Home
The Texas State Supreme Court on Thursday ruled that the removal of children from a polygamist religious group’s ranch by child welfare authorities was unwarranted and that the children should be returned.
The court’s ruling upheld a decision issued last week by the Third Court of Appeals in Austin finding that a state district court judge had not been justified in allowing the Texas Department of Family and Protective Services to remove hundreds children from a ranch complex near Eldorado in April.
In Thursday’s decision, the Supreme Court noted that while “the district court must vacate the current temporary custody orders as directed by the court of appeals,” the district court judge could impose conditions to protect the children including preventing their removal from beyond a geographical area.
Although the Supreme Court on Thursday instructed the district court to vacate its original order approving the children’s removal, it did not set a timetable under which they should be returned. Thursday’s decision involved 126 of the children, but a lawyer for representing one of the children seized from the ranch has said previously that the decision would effectively apply to all of the children taken into state custody.The Supreme Court said state child welfare officials must meet several legal standards concerning the safety of the children in order to justify removal — such as proving that state officials made a reasonable effort to enable the children to return home but that there was a substantial risk of continuing danger if the children were returned.
“Having carefully examined the testimony at the adversary hearing and the other evidence before us, we are not inclined to disturb the court of appeals’ decision,” the Supreme Court ruled. “On the record before us, removal of the children was not warranted.”
The state Department of Family Services seized 468 children on May 29 from the Yearning for Zion Ranch, a 1,700-acre complex associated with the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. According to the court’s decision, the state officials raided the ranch after receiving a telephone call claiming that a 16-year-old girl named Sarah was being abused at the ranch. The department took custody of all the children without a court order. Investigators never located the girl who had been the subject of the call, the court said.
The state then appealed to the district court, arguing that the danger to the children justified removal from their families. The court approved the removal, which the parents challenged in the court of appeals.
State child welfare officials have argued that the removal was justified by danger of sexual abuse of pubescent girls at the ranch. In seeking to overturn the district court’s order to remove the children, lawyers representing mothers of the children said the placement of the children in foster homes was causing irreparable harm.
The government seized 468 children and took them from their parents on an fake charge.
That is what is despicable.
You may not agree with their religion or their way of life, but that doesn't mean you use the government to impose yourself upon them.
You want to change the world, then do it yourself. But don't use the government, their guns, and my stolen wages to force your beliefs down someone else's throat!
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That's what I was kinda trying to say. However I still think those children do not belong there. They will have no chance in life to be free as long as they are raised in that cesspool. However you are dead on again in that the governement should not be used as a tool to get those children out illegally. Such a friggin mess.
"Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves." ~ Ronald Reagan
It is a great victory for the rule of law.
We should be celebrating the rightful, lawful return of the children to their parents.
No evidence of abuse. You must "show," prove your case. The state failed to prove its case and relied on a single phone call.
meh...pictures of a 40 year old dude kissing his 15 year old bride is enough to make me want to see it investigated properly...don't you guys agree with at least that much?
By the way, this mindset that people in this thread have is the same reason why OJ Simpson is a free man...Not saying that courts should be able to do whatever they feel like doing on a whim, but there is something to be said for the letter of the law vs the spirit of the law.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
Since when has raping 13 year old girls been legal under "religion?" I am a Christian and study the Bible. Jesus never preached polygamy or marrying little girls without their consent. Read the countless articles and watch the videos on the horrible offences they have commited. Just because the Government did not have enough evidence DOES NOT MEAN NOTHING HAPPANED. Look at O.J. Simpson. He murdered two people and got away with it. Just because a few old fat judges say nothing is wrong does not make it true.
holy shit. i swear i never saw your post when i wrote the thing about o.j. simpson. Funny we thought of the same thing.
I think its good to remember why the letter of the law is there. Its to protect people from false incrimination. Without due process you aren't playing fairly in obtaining such information, and in the past doing such things has created false evidence. Nothing worse then a cop who is so pissed off something happened on his beat that he wants to put someone away, anyone... Not to mention the constant invasions of privacy and terror caused through chaos.
On the O.J. Simpson trial, he got away not because he obviously abused his wife or that the media was so intent on painting him as guilty. When a jury goes into that room they should be going in thinking that man is innocent and honest and an upstanding citizen. Its the prosecutions job to convince them without any doubt he did it. There was doubt though and no real evidence to connect him. We are talking about sending a man away for life or executing him. Doubt shouldn't be there.
Aren't there more important issues than worrying about people following their beliefs?
:guess it's not a good idea to post what would be considered flame bait to the op before bed, but it's likely worth responding to in any case:
I find it amazing that by 2020 first world countries will be competing to get immigrants.
QFT. Quote of the day.
Back to business as usual for the cult leaders.
They should not have taken the children away. They need to continuously arrest and prosecute the leaders. If the 13 year olds keep having kids and a court can prove through blood tests and dna its the 50 year olds kid he needs to be put away. Keep doing this until all the men are registered sex offenders and are put in prison.
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
Sounds like jealousy to me TBH. You cant screw a 13 year old without getting in trouble, so you don't want anyone else to get away with it either. Lets face reality. You don't really give a damn about the children.
Just another example of how people use religion to justify sinning. Want to have sex with 12 year olds? Say it is God's will. Want to ram a plane into a skyscraper? Proclaim it as a holy war. Organized religion does more harm than good.
To the OP, it is spelled Despicable...
What makes you so sure it isn't gods will? Furthermore, what makes you so sure it is inappropriate behavior? Did god not make women able to bear children at that age? Not something for me personally, but you have to admit, mother nature has more moral authority than you or I do.
Since when has raping 13 year old girls been legal under "religion?" I am a Christian and study the Bible. Jesus never preached polygamy or marrying little girls without their consent. Read the countless articles and watch the videos on the horrible offences they have commited. Just because the Government did not have enough evidence DOES NOT MEAN NOTHING HAPPANED. Look at O.J. Simpson. He murdered two people and got away with it. Just because a few old fat judges say nothing is wrong does not make it true.
Just because someone accuses someone else of something doesn't mean that something did happen. That's why we have the assumption of innocence until proven guilty.
BTW, how many 13 year old girls were raped? And then I want you to justify how that means breaking up all of those families is alright. You're ideas of allowing an overextended arm of authority are pretty scary.
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All Rights Reversed
That's completely insane and offensive...you're saying that we are all secret pedofiles and the only reason we care about this is because we're mad that WE don't get to have sex with 13 year olds? That's absolutely twisted.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
Since when has raping 13 year old girls been legal under "religion?" I am a Christian and study the Bible. Jesus never preached polygamy or marrying little girls without their consent. Read the countless articles and watch the videos on the horrible offences they have commited. Just because the Government did not have enough evidence DOES NOT MEAN NOTHING HAPPANED. Look at O.J. Simpson. He murdered two people and got away with it. Just because a few old fat judges say nothing is wrong does not make it true.
Just because someone accuses someone else of something doesn't mean that something did happen. That's why we have the assumption of innocence until proven guilty.
BTW, how many 13 year old girls were raped? And then I want you to justify how that means breaking up all of those families is alright. You're ideas of allowing an overextended arm of authority are pretty scary.
Have you not read my other post? Just because they had limited proof does not mean nothing happaned. Sure in the eyes of the law the children should be returned but the investigators should have a better investigation. Have you not seen the countless news specials on what goes on in those camps? Also, their leader was on the FBI's most wanted list and is serving a sentence of ten years to life in a Utah prison.
Since when has raping 13 year old girls been legal under "religion?" I am a Christian and study the Bible. Jesus never preached polygamy or marrying little girls without their consent. Read the countless articles and watch the videos on the horrible offences they have commited. Just because the Government did not have enough evidence DOES NOT MEAN NOTHING HAPPANED. Look at O.J. Simpson. He murdered two people and got away with it. Just because a few old fat judges say nothing is wrong does not make it true.
Just because someone accuses someone else of something doesn't mean that something did happen. That's why we have the assumption of innocence until proven guilty.
BTW, how many 13 year old girls were raped? And then I want you to justify how that means breaking up all of those families is alright. You're ideas of allowing an overextended arm of authority are pretty scary.
Have you not read my other post? Just because they had limited proof does not mean nothing happaned. Sure in the eyes of the law the children should be returned but the investigators should have a better investigation. Have you not seen the countless news specials on what goes on in those camps? Also, their leader was on the FBI's most wanted list and is serving a sentence of ten years to life in a Utah prison.
Isn't that a bit of trying the good old disprove the negative?
Have you not read my other post? Just because they had limited proof does not mean nothing happaned. Sure in the eyes of the law the children should be returned but the investigators should have a better investigation. Have you not seen the countless news specials on what goes on in those camps? Also, their leader was on the FBI's most wanted list and is serving a sentence of ten years to life in a Utah prison.
That's the thing tho isn't it? Such 'Documentaries' Are just sensationalism of facts and Rumours.In other words such programs hold very little factual weight. Its a bit like watching some Documentaries on Area 51 and you then saying that pretty much proves that aliens are involved somewhere in area 51.
What isn't rumour tho is that those cops raided that place on no more proof than what was provided on a semi-anonymous phone call from a known prankster. That is not only wrong but it was an illegal raid too.
Another great example of Moore's Law. Give people access to that much space (developers and users alike) and they'll find uses for it that you can never imagine. "640K ought to be enough for anybody" - Bill Gates 1981
the more i hear about america the more i realise how f**ked up it is
too many cults in there that doesnt make sense and are led by a bunch of morons. 10 kids each, soon america will be run over by idiots.
Poor kids, getting screwed over by "adults" who shouldnt be taking care of them and theres nothing they can do, but hell theres something people outside the sect CAN do
i~ku~ra
Huh? America is a great country, with great morals and a great lifestyle. So much so that we believe in forcing our lifestyle on everyone that is not American......after all, deep down inside each of you non-Americans really want to be an American.
Resistance is futile......
What if the government came and confiscated your computer based on one phone call a person made?