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Stop referring to scenarios as RvR
demren
Member Posts: 41
Scenarios is just more battleground bs with a different name. Up until EA's take over and pr blitz RvR has always meant massive open world pvp. Slowly but ever increasingly they have been changing the definition of RvR to mean something more scenario oriented. In press releases and demonstrations RvR is now about scenarios mostly and nothing is mentioned about open pvp unless someone presses the issue directly. With what over 12 scenarios that we do know about in WAR not including the cityseige scenarios, it seems most likely that, for those of us expecting open world pvp, the rug has been quietly pulled out from under us.
Edit: Fixed incorrect spelling in title of post.
Comments
Actually RvR means the active fighting of one realm against another.
WAR accomplishes this in a number of ways, including scenarios. Because fighting in scenarios helps your side in the overall RvR battle, I would count it as RvR. The problem lies in thinking that this is the ONLY form of RvR.
Having had the chance to play the game a couple of times, I can tell you that the game's RvR goes way beyond the scenarios and encompasses almost all aspects of the game. Focusing on this one point seems to be taking it out of context.
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Jon Wood
Managing Editor
MMORPG.com
Actually RvR means the active fighting of one realm against another.
WAR accomplishes this in a number of ways, including scenarios. Because fighting in scenarios helps your side in the overall RvR battle, I would count it as RvR. The problem lies in thinking that this is the ONLY form of RvR.
Having had the chance to play the game a couple of times, I can tell you that the game's RvR goes way beyond the scenarios and encompasses almost all aspects of the game. Focusing on this one point seems to be taking it out of context.
What I was going to say but said better.
Sent me an email if you want me to mail you some pizza rolls.
There is a reason its called RvR (Realm vs Realm) and not MOWPVP (massive open world player vs player). PvP is only one aspect of RvR. Also there has been plenty of talk (possibly even more than about scenerios) about open world PvP revolving around capturing open world objectives (such as keeps).
Actually RvR means the active fighting of one realm against another.
WAR accomplishes this in a number of ways, including scenarios. Because fighting in scenarios helps your side in the overall RvR battle, I would count it as RvR. The problem lies in thinking that this is the ONLY form of RvR.
Having had the chance to play the game a couple of times, I can tell you that the game's RvR goes way beyond the scenarios and encompasses almost all aspects of the game. Focusing on this one point seems to be taking it out of context.
True but that still doesn't change the fact that what has been implied, meaning when one hears the word RvR, has changed.
Yes in the starkest terms it means realm vs. realm. But what was implied by that term when it was used for the last 7 years was massive open world fighting. Never before now ,has it referred to battleground, scenarios or whatever you would like to call them.
One thing Mythic has said for the past 7 years was that the reason there were no battlegrounds in the endgame of DAOC was because it detracted from RvR.
And yes there is many aspects beyond just scenarios, but when all of these aspects are pulling from single pool of people on a single server one aspect is gonna suffer while another flourishes. I can safely say we know what happened to world pvp in wow right? Who is to that is not gonna happen here?
Oh too bad open world PvP weighs alot more than scenarios I guess no one will ever do them we'll just grind scenarios just like WoW because we all loved it so much.
What you're describing is what they had originally - they actually revamped the victory point system so that open world PvP is much more valuable then doing scenarios. There's a podcast about it.
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A human and an Elf get captured by Skaven. The rat-men are getting ready to shoot the first hostage with Dwarf-made guns when he yells, "Earthquake!" The naturally nervous Skaven run and hide from the imaginary threat. He escapes. The Skaven regroup and bring out the Elf. Being very smart, the Elf has figured out what to do. When the Skaven get ready to shoot, the Elf, in order to scare them, yells, "Fire!"
Order of the White Border.
I'd love for you to link that because they never stated that as far as I know. All they said was they changed it so Open RvR was gonna be worth more than before compared to scenarios, never that it was much more or even just more than scenario's.
Besides, they'll never cut out scenario's for their zone control most likely. it's the only equalizer they have against realm populations. I'm convinced there will always be a certain amount of Scenario points required to win or lose which means everything will always rely on what happens in the scenarios *as well*.
It's about the only defense they have against overpopulation.
I remember reading talk of changing the way scenarios were weighed, but I don't think they said anything definite. Just talk about changing it up because it took a lot of folks from the open world battles.
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Originally posted by javac
well i'm 35 and have a PhD in science, and then 10 years experience in bioinformatics... you?
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/218865/page/8
Mythic invented Battlegrounds ... they built instanced zones with keeps , and siege weapons, it was baby food til you got into the open world realm vs realm conflict. The lvl 20 battlefields were / are so popular that people maxed Nercos just make lvl 20s to do the instanced zones and reroll rate was massive , it was game within itself.
Nobody came close to touching Mythic in pvp systems , even Lineage 2 and Shadowbane were eclipsed by the sheer magic of what those lvl 20 + instanced zones where.
Open Pvp and full loot pvp is dead , it died in 2k , Mythic knows what realm vs realm is they are the grandfathers of the best system ever made. *not fanboy statement either*
They are making more tactic , and giving non realm fighters a place in the world. I think , if they do it right , they will make the DAOC 2.0 and be the best pvp in the current market. Ncsoft can make a out and out kill you baitch , take your stuff game , but Mythic got people to work together to take down a keep for selfish reason.
Get that feeling again they ll print money.
I'd love for you to link that because they never stated that as far as I know. All they said was they changed it so Open RvR was gonna be worth more than before compared to scenarios, never that it was much more or even just more than scenario's.
Besides, they'll never cut out scenario's for their zone control most likely. it's the only equalizer they have against realm populations. I'm convinced there will always be a certain amount of Scenario points required to win or lose which means everything will always rely on what happens in the scenarios *as well*.
It's about the only defense they have against overpopulation.
Yeah my wording was a bit off, but sounded like you saw the podcast anyways.
http://mythicmktg.fileburst.com/war/us/home/flash/2007-11_pp-GameSystemChanges.html - near the end of the video.
Keeps weren't in originally! Hah. The point is alot of players thought like the OP, and they wanted open-world PvP. I don't think that's changed at all.
--------------------------------------
A human and an Elf get captured by Skaven. The rat-men are getting ready to shoot the first hostage with Dwarf-made guns when he yells, "Earthquake!" The naturally nervous Skaven run and hide from the imaginary threat. He escapes. The Skaven regroup and bring out the Elf. Being very smart, the Elf has figured out what to do. When the Skaven get ready to shoot, the Elf, in order to scare them, yells, "Fire!"
Order of the White Border.
Actually RvR means the active fighting of one realm against another.
WAR accomplishes this in a number of ways, including scenarios. Because fighting in scenarios helps your side in the overall RvR battle, I would count it as RvR. The problem lies in thinking that this is the ONLY form of RvR.
Having had the chance to play the game a couple of times, I can tell you that the game's RvR goes way beyond the scenarios and encompasses almost all aspects of the game. Focusing on this one point seems to be taking it out of context.
True but that still doesn't change the fact that what has been implied, meaning when one hears the word RvR, has changed.
Yes in the starkest terms it means realm vs. realm. But what was implied by that term when it was used for the last 7 years was massive open world fighting. Never before now ,has it referred to battleground, scenarios or whatever you would like to call them.
Nothing 'Stark' about it, it fully implies Realm V Realm.
Realm V Realm encomases ALL PVE and ALL PVP played in Warhammer since it ALL contributes to your realm status. That is the definition of RVR always was always will be.
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
I'm actually starting to come to believe what the OP just said. It seems like they're steering away from World PvP much like Blizzard did when they introduced the battlegrounds. Calling Scenarios RvR is like putting lipstick on a pig, it's still just a PIG.
I agree.
Lets hope that the spirit of the game is more like DAOC RVR play then this "new" version of RVR.
I'd love for you to link that because they never stated that as far as I know. All they said was they changed it so Open RvR was gonna be worth more than before compared to scenarios, never that it was much more or even just more than scenario's.
Besides, they'll never cut out scenario's for their zone control most likely. it's the only equalizer they have against realm populations. I'm convinced there will always be a certain amount of Scenario points required to win or lose which means everything will always rely on what happens in the scenarios *as well*.
It's about the only defense they have against overpopulation.
Here you go....everything explained in this video
mythicmktg.fileburst.com/war/us/home/flash/2007-11_pp-GameSystemChanges.html
edit - damn was beat to it already
I agree.
Lets hope that the spirit of the game is more like DAOC RVR play then this "new" version of RVR.
watch the video....RVR encompasses a crapload, from instancing, to open world, to public quests, to seiging, etc.
I agree.
Lets hope that the spirit of the game is more like DAOC RVR play then this "new" version of RVR.
watch the video....RVR encompasses a crapload, from instancing, to open world, to public quests, to seiging, etc.
But what was THE spirit of RVR play in DAOC?
Answer this question honestly before leaping without looking.
I agree.
Lets hope that the spirit of the game is more like DAOC RVR play then this "new" version of RVR.
watch the video....RVR encompasses a crapload, from instancing, to open world, to public quests, to seiging, etc.
But what was THE spirit of RVR play in DAOC?
Answer this question honestly before leaping without looking.
It was open world keep seiges, but does that mean RvR can't change?
If it helps your realm, it's RvR.
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Guys! I'm hopelessly lost in a mountain of mole hills! Them damn moles!
I agree.
Lets hope that the spirit of the game is more like DAOC RVR play then this "new" version of RVR.
watch the video....RVR encompasses a crapload, from instancing, to open world, to public quests, to seiging, etc.
I honestly believe that the guy heading up RvR design for WAR has a bias against open world rvr. It's almost like they're just throwing a bone to the folks who want Open PvP but don't truly have their hearts in it. Since the beginning, they've always wanted the focus to be on scenarios. That's why it took beta testers raising a stink about it to finally get them to add more importance to Open PvP. But they're still hardcore Scenario types through and through. Which is unfortunate the way I see it.
I agree.
Lets hope that the spirit of the game is more like DAOC RVR play then this "new" version of RVR.
watch the video....RVR encompasses a crapload, from instancing, to open world, to public quests, to seiging, etc.
But what was THE spirit of RVR play in DAOC?
Answer this question honestly before leaping without looking.
It was open world keep seiges, but does that mean RvR can't change?
If it helps your realm, it's RvR.
Depends how much it changes but if it deviates too much then some of the old school RvR players may not like it.
Just my two cents.
I wont pvp in scenarios just for the sake of doing it or to farm points to trade to some npc for some gear. If pvp in scenarios has some direct effect for my realm then it is RvR imo.
Except...this isn't DAoC....this isnt' DAoC 2.0. They've said this dozens of times. Yes its an RvR game...and they've taken what they saw worked in DAoC and built on it. Grown with the community. The community is no longer just a bunch of hardcores or PC elites that have tons of time. The community consists of all sorts of types of players. By growing and expanding on RvR to encompass all sorts of facets of gameplay it allows MORE players to feel as if they're making a difference as if they're part of the realm.
Players that only have a half hour to an hour on a weeknight can jump ina nd join a scenario and contribute & gain some renown(also obtainable through open rvr) as well in the process. You can't always just 'jump' into Open RvR.
Some players no matter what will always do Open RvR...hell if guilds want to Own Keeps they can only do that in Open RvR. Thats a HUGE draw right there. Holding down a peice of open game world and being able to slightly customize it and gain benefits from it, soemthing you can't do in scenarios.
Players ....any player honestly coming to play war will want to do end game. End game is the city siege. YOU MUST hold down the 2 Tier 4 realms in order to do this. If you own no Tier 4 open RvR objectives at all there's no way some scenarios will fix this, thats the whole point of the Fall redesign on open RvR last year. Scenarios are a lending hand for realm points just like the ToK & PvE but they will not be the final determining factor in realm control, your realm must be Openly RvRing to completely gain control.
If you want low risk/low reward and you got 15-20 mins to kill .... Scenarios are the way to go. You get some reknown/xp/influence, but not much. If you want the big meaty rewards, big xp/influence/reknown, as well as seiging and city capturing, you go open rvr. Simple.
Except...this isn't DAoC....this isnt' DAoC 2.0. They've said this dozens of times. Yes its an RvR game...and they've taken what they saw worked in DAoC and built on it. Grown with the community. The community is no longer just a bunch of hardcores or PC elites that have tons of time. The community consists of all sorts of types of players. By growing and expanding on RvR to encompass all sorts of facets of gameplay it allows MORE players to feel as if they're making a difference as if they're part of the realm.
Players that only have a half hour to an hour on a weeknight can jump ina nd join a scenario and contribute & gain some renown(also obtainable through open rvr) as well in the process. You can't always just 'jump' into Open RvR.
Some players no matter what will always do Open RvR...hell if guilds want to Own Keeps they can only do that in Open RvR. Thats a HUGE draw right there. Holding down a peice of open game world and being able to slightly customize it and gain benefits from it, soemthing you can't do in scenarios.
Players ....any player honestly coming to play war will want to do end game. End game is the city siege. YOU MUST hold down the 2 Tier 4 realms in order to do this. If you own no Tier 4 open RvR objectives at all there's no way some scenarios will fix this, thats the whole point of the Fall redesign on open RvR last year. Scenarios are a lending hand for realm points just like the ToK & PvE but they will not be the final determining factor in realm control, your realm must be Openly RvRing to completely gain control.
you summed it up perfectly....me i know i will be doing almost exclusively open rvr, and my guild WANTS a keep...so we will be going all out right away. If i have 20 mins before dinner, or have to watch my kid and can't dedicate lots of time to game play...i will run a scenario and help my realm
Except...this isn't DAoC....this isnt' DAoC 2.0. They've said this dozens of times. Yes its an RvR game...and they've taken what they saw worked in DAoC and built on it. Grown with the community. The community is no longer just a bunch of hardcores or PC elites that have tons of time. The community consists of all sorts of types of players. By growing and expanding on RvR to encompass all sorts of facets of gameplay it allows MORE players to feel as if they're making a difference as if they're part of the realm.
Players that only have a half hour to an hour on a weeknight can jump ina nd join a scenario and contribute & gain some renown(also obtainable through open rvr) as well in the process. You can't always just 'jump' into Open RvR.
Some players no matter what will always do Open RvR...hell if guilds want to Own Keeps they can only do that in Open RvR. Thats a HUGE draw right there. Holding down a peice of open game world and being able to slightly customize it and gain benefits from it, soemthing you can't do in scenarios.
Players ....any player honestly coming to play war will want to do end game. End game is the city siege. YOU MUST hold down the 2 Tier 4 realms in order to do this. If you own no Tier 4 open RvR objectives at all there's no way some scenarios will fix this, thats the whole point of the Fall redesign on open RvR last year. Scenarios are a lending hand for realm points just like the ToK & PvE but they will not be the final determining factor in realm control, your realm must be Openly RvRing to completely gain control.
You do realize while providing more options for RvR on one had it does deviate from the spirit of RvR a bit no?
Is that worth sacrificing though?
Except...this isn't DAoC....this isnt' DAoC 2.0. They've said this dozens of times. Yes its an RvR game...and they've taken what they saw worked in DAoC and built on it. Grown with the community. The community is no longer just a bunch of hardcores or PC elites that have tons of time. The community consists of all sorts of types of players. By growing and expanding on RvR to encompass all sorts of facets of gameplay it allows MORE players to feel as if they're making a difference as if they're part of the realm.
Players that only have a half hour to an hour on a weeknight can jump ina nd join a scenario and contribute & gain some renown(also obtainable through open rvr) as well in the process. You can't always just 'jump' into Open RvR.
Some players no matter what will always do Open RvR...hell if guilds want to Own Keeps they can only do that in Open RvR. Thats a HUGE draw right there. Holding down a peice of open game world and being able to slightly customize it and gain benefits from it, soemthing you can't do in scenarios.
Players ....any player honestly coming to play war will want to do end game. End game is the city siege. YOU MUST hold down the 2 Tier 4 realms in order to do this. If you own no Tier 4 open RvR objectives at all there's no way some scenarios will fix this, thats the whole point of the Fall redesign on open RvR last year. Scenarios are a lending hand for realm points just like the ToK & PvE but they will not be the final determining factor in realm control, your realm must be Openly RvRing to completely gain control.
You do realize while providing more options for RvR on one had it does deviate from the spirit of RvR a bit no?
Is that worth sacrificing though?
Explain
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Guys! I'm hopelessly lost in a mountain of mole hills! Them damn moles!
I don't think it sacrifices anything. If your a casual player with only 20 to 30 mins to play on most nights (excluding holidays & days off from work or school) what reasn is there to play WAR if you won't get to enjoy PvPing or spend most of your time LFGing?
Thats one of the major reasons I left WoW. I felt excluded (i wasn't a casual i just damn hate raids & gear grinding with common goal to share with all my fellow players other than greed), there was no reason to fight for your 'side', no reason to give a damn about a faction member getting mobbed. The only viable activity for endgame was pve raids and I'd rather die then get tangled up in that mess.
WoW Scenarios became a gear farm so they were worthless but thats not what WAR scenarios are.
Maybe its a sacrafice to your personal taste but spiritually MMOs are about Massive Multiplayer. They want massive, they wan't huge they want lots of people killing each other. But they don't want to exclude people.
Is excluding players from enjoying RvR really the spirit of RvR? Because if it is I say F*** that honestly. RvR is about realm pride and everyone contributing to the pride. If one person's way is to contribute through Scenarios or PvE then I say let them have it because they're contributing. They're doing something to entertain themselves and still contribute.
To me thats the spirit of RvR. Everyone working for a common goal. Some do it openly, some craft necessary tools, some play scenarios because their time is short, some PvE, some Explore. THe end goal for everyone is the same and thats what RvR is about. Its not longer a narrowly scoped fight like the old days.