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Ok, enough - I am turning my back on MMORPG.com, it has degenerated too far
Elikal
Member UncommonPosts: 7,912
For a long time I felt this forum, MMORPG.com, held some higher standarts of civility and respect, than the many other game forums, who already drowned in flame wars. For me this is highly regrettable, but necessary. I enjoyed and took part in gaming forums for many years, and was active here for the last 2+ years. For me MMOs are hobby and part of my life for almost 5 years now, and as someone who is greatly interested in the ongoings of MMOs I greatly enjoyed discussing about MMOs with others. I personally never minded if people attacked my opinion. I enjoy a good controversy about anything.
But the mood shifted. It began in the offiicial MMO games forums, and now it has dragged down this once good forum, as well. I remember well that it used to be different once, that people were able to talk about MMOs without getting attacked personally. I dunno what caused this changes, but I watch it for a long time now, and for a long while MMORPG.com was relatively free of this. I will never understand this mental framework, where people are suspected, name called and ridiculed. When I see someone with whose opinion I don't agree, I give him at least so much credit as to presume his point is geniune, and not just made off for whatever reason, and I argue over his points, not his person, his grammer, his suspected evil motivations or whatever.
I never expected to be touched with silk gloves in a forum, I attack controverse points as much as any guy, and its okay to see my points attacked likewise. What I dont understand is the motivation to personally attack someone, simply because I dont share his opinion. And unfortunate the overall mood here changed. Sure, there are some good and fair people here. But the amount of name calling, slandering, ridiculing, suspect and whatever respectless behavior has spread so far here, it makes the atmosphere like a piosonous swamp, often. MMORPG.com was a community I used to feel well with, a place I went to daily and was always looking forward to exchange views, opinions and experiences with. But these days it seems most people cant stand to hear another opinion without calling someone fanboi, troll, drama queen or iliterate these day. I dunno, what happend to you guys? Where did the spirit of chiralry go, where people abstain from mockery and name calling, no matter how hard you attacked his points, but not his PERSON?
Unfortunatly this change reflects the changes in MMOs themselves. Where once MMO playing was only something for a few, now as it became mass market, the aggression level, the sheer amount of name calling and slandering in MMOs has risen dramatically over the last 2 years. And this is unfortunately reflected in this forum now, too. The old Confucian idea that you should treat the next person as you want to be treated is alas forgotten in our days. I dont blame gamers in particular - the loss of personal respect and the desire to degrade the person with another opinion is the trend of our days. But as someone who just posts his honest opinion, when a forum has reached a point that I think to censor myself in order to prevent personal attacks, I see the only way to leave. It is regrettable, because I enjoy debating about MMOs, and for a long time I thought not to "let them win over this place" and tried to stay on the path of sincerity. But at some point the battlefield changed, and right now I dont see there is anything to win here, anymore and the frustration outweights the joy of discussion. People stopped to listen to each other. They stopped to believe the opinion of the other are sincere and geniune. There are a few names, who especially contributed to the devolution of this forum, people you will know, who are all too ready to call someone troll or hateboi or fanboi. People who dont even start to work with your points, but go straight to your personality. People who will not even have so much decency to abstain for attacking your person, when you were already bashed by a dozen others, but like hyenas must bite into the downtrodden.
For me, thats the ultimate cowardice. Sitting safely behind their desk anonymity, they attack in masses, laugh at those who have already been ridiculed by others and not even have the decency to do so in a one VS one level. There was a time when I did not want to give in to such people, who elegantly hide behind smartass comments and forum anonymity (calling someone a troll IS trolling btw!), but there comes a point when the atmosphere is so poisoned, that there is nothing to gain anymore. So I take my leave from this place, and return to passive watcher, for the sake of infos. It is regrettable for me, but those with destructive personalities as so often in history, have successfully ruined another place. Congratulations to your great accomplishment. The real tragedy lies in their own ignorance, that they will never see themselves as they are, and even laugh about their own folly. I just defy to be the whetstone for other people's inferiority complex any longer. Maybe the mods and those left with decency someday find the strength for a purification of this place, but my personal time is too valuable to spent it in a place like this for the time being, so do the only thing I can. I go.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Comments
People are just angry because no decent MMO has been released since the Ultima Online / EverQuest days.
... and you say this as if anybody cared. I consider this place quiet enjoyable, actually ... all I do is avoid the trollish threads (read: a lot of them), avoid contentious topics, and watch threads with well-thought out and logical starting posts (read: barely any). Very good experience if you follow those guidelines.
Oh, and ignore the flamers, the whiners, the fanboys ... did I miss anybody?
QQ MORE NOOB!!!!111onee!!11one
O_o o_O
And him.
I know that over the past five years the number of members of MMORPG.com has doubled.
I don't know if your experience has something to do with some quantitative vs quality thing but we can always blame WoW
If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe. - Carl Sagan
sooo true
Well, forums are just like the games themselves, when you stop having fun its time to leave.
Sure, forums have their problems, as do games, but I find that's what makes them interesting. I'm not here to visit happy valley, and can appreciate a good troll thread along with the more high level discussion.
I rarely attack folks, and rarely find myself attacked in return. I try to carefully think through my replies (doesn't always show, I know) and I never get into pissing contests with people. (I tend to just post my thoughts on a topic and move on)
I am happy posting here, so I'll continue. I generally dislike official forums due to the general "love-fest" that their policies insist on enforcing.
MMORPG.com is like professional wrestling, we know its all about posturing and is really all faked, but its fun to watch all the same.
If you are looking for entertainment and thoughtful discussion I suggest the Harvard Review or something along those lines, this is a blue collar site.
Oh yeah, do have to mention one more thing.... posting a goodbye thread in a forum such as this.....
-1
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/239/view/forums/thread/191047
Haha, yes Elikal beware the WAR fanbois, they are a vicious bunch and twice as rabid as any I've ever seen. But in all honesty you brought it upon yourself making such a thread like this.
O_o o_O
"after the time of dice came the day of mice "
Wow.
Regardless, that doesn't excuse poor behavior and lack of courtesy. Unfortunately, thats the way of the world these days. One major change since computers( and cells with text, mobile PDAs etc) became a mainstay of life (or so says my 86 year old grandmother who couldn't survive without her email/IMS) is the disconnection of people from people. Anonymity is a wonderful advantage (not that people are EXACTLY anon as very few mask their IP when directly connect to the INet) for people who would otherwise be small-minded and nasty to a very few to become loud and obnoxious to many..with no effort!
Another unfortunately fact is that people rarely look 'for the other person's perspective' or if they do, they think "I could deal with that" and don't take into consideration that everyone is different. Not just from the perspective of race or heritage but from general experience. To give an example of a term which is bruted about more and more is the word 'raped'. '....we PvP'd and i raped him...' or ' ....that gaming company took your money and disappeared..you got raped'..... I doubt very much that most of the people who use the term really know what it is like to be raped and if they did I think it unlikely they would use the word so casually. But it's has become more and more common for people to use the concept. I can't change that my my stomach turns every time I read that in casual print....People just don't realize what a single word can do when uttered casually and without forethought.
Anyway, that's all for me. I hope someone sees this and maybe give a bit of thought before they casually smash people in the future.
Elikal, mate ...
I am on verge of leaving myself. You can notice i am posting less and less.
Not because of rabid community. It was always like this. But because there is nothing to write about.
MMO's are dead
When only AA MMO coming out in 2 years from now is WAR , that is more of glorified battleground than virtual world. And AION that is nothing more than WOW the Lineage version.
What should we write about ?
The rest of quasi waporeware/garage projects ? Or Multiplayer xbox titles ? Instanced shooters ?
When best thing on the horisont is Diablo 3 , that is not really MMO ....
Elikal , mate ... you can leave in peace. Time of MMOs is over
This site has been like this a long time, it was so bad for SWG they split the forums.
Can't see it ever improving unless they moderate all the forums, which just wont happen.
Problem is people are so willing to slag off a game they dont like yet dont think that the style of game "may" suit others.
Constantly shooting their mouths off and ranting on and on about a game they dont like.
Childish really.
Now playing: VG (after a long break from MMORPGS)
Played for more than a month: Darkfall online, Vanguard SOH, Everquest, Horizons, WoW, SWG, Everquest II, Eve
it has deteriorated quite a bit. however little threads here and there make it all worthwhile (usually have nothing to do with MMO's)
MMO wish list:
-Changeable worlds
-Solid non level based game
-Sharks with lasers attached to their heads
To the OP after reading your post I have to say you take all this way to seriously. I think you are right you do need to leave. You are looking for truth and civiltiy in a open public game forum? These forums are here not for truth but for entertainment.
So many talk about the golden years when mmos were great. Well I got news for you mmos are the best they have ever been. We have more choices then ever. The budgets are larger then ever for game developers. With larger quantity you do get more bad product, bad discussion, and yes bad players. You say 5 years in mmos and 2 years here like that is a longtime and deserves some kind of special treatment. Well it doesn't. I been in mmos for 10 years and been enjoying the forums at mmorpg.com for over 3 years. I think mmorpg.com is getting better and more entertaining as the games themselves are as time goes by. Get out of the stoneage of mmos and wipe the fog off your eyes and see that mmos are better, stronger, and getting better everyday.
Got an idea maybe you need to go back to single player games. From the sound of your post I get the impression you may feel this way about life and the world in general not just mmos. I got news for you the world is great, life is good and mmos are better then ever.
@ Lobotomist
Sorry but the facts disagree. The millions of growing supporters ,the endless websites dedicated to MMO games ,the massive financial investment by companies and the contantly new games that are coming out shows just how lucritive this business is .
Dont mistake your opinion with the reality...you are jaded .Thats not an accurate assesement of the position of MMO games
Later
"after the time of dice came the day of mice "
The buisness is lucrative , more than ever. That is true , but it is not what i was talking about.
You see , Elkial , as many of other posters here - are not looking to play blockbuster game with biggest mass apeal.
Heck, if we did - we should be on GUITAR HERO forums.
MMOs are de-evolving. Form complex simulated virtual worlds - towards casual multiplayer arcade minigames. This is LUCRATIVE as it brings MMO to much wider audience.
But it is not advancing the genre anywhere.
MMOs lost their potential somwhere along the way ...
Pretty much :
I love the idea of MMORPG's, but after all these years I've yet to find a game which I love.
BOYCOTTING EA / ORIGIN going forward.
Yo Elikal, chill mate.
These forums are just like RL, you got your idiots, you got your smart people, you got your trolls and all kinds of fantastic creatures lurking about. This is a public forum drawing in people with all kinds of different backgrounds and agendas and you can't expect everybody to conform to your standards of civility.
It's like going to a football game as opposed to a quiet coffee with your personal friends. When I go to mmorpg.com I know exactly what to expect so I don my 2-inch laminated kevlar flame retardant troll armor. I know it can get really hard but you need to keep your cool and not take things to heart or else them toothy clawy thingies are going to eat you alive.
On the other hand there's quite a few forums around that are more narrow in scope and private in character so people tend to be much more civil if not reasonable. MMORPGs are the Big Thing right now and there's a lot of people who want to get their voices heard - which is really hard if the forum is overpopulated. That's the prime reason why I support Mythic's "no official forums" policy. The contrast between AoC's pre-release forums and WAR's unofficial ones is like heaven and hell. The amount of people yelling in AoC was stupendous - total dog-eat-dog. Mythic got its fans spread around on numerous smaller forums so it's much easier to get heard there.
So chill. Find yourself a nice quiet forum or two where you can discuss things rationally and civilly (for WAR people I reccommend warhammeralliance) while occassionally dropping by here to see what's the score. You really can't expect a quality discussion on a forum site of such wide scope and popularity as mmorpg.com.
To the thread starter:
Do what I do, come in for a few weeks, read and post a little. Then when you had enough of all those people continuously whining, leave for a few month.
Rinse and repeat
I am one of those happy mmo players and that for the past 10 years. So if it gets to bitter and depressing here, I leave for a bit .
------------------------------------------------------
Do I ever sleep?
Hang in there buddy. Personally I try to avoid to use forums as a chat room where I can get information back via tell. If there is something I truly have no idea is going on, vaguely curious about, I may post on an existing thread that is up.
I'd like to think these people on MMORPG.COM are ahead of the curve when it comes to MMO stuff and news, but I am not going to let the Jerks and other Flame Warriors ruin my information questing.
So while it is true that some diligence is necessary when starting a topic, don't be bummed if you get hammered for a thread or two. Heaven knows I have been roughed up posting my comments now and then.
Finally - Best site for Chuck Norris
http://www.chucknorrisfacts.com/
MMorpg.com is not just a forum. The forums are only a small part of what this site offers. The least important part as far as i am concerned. I could not agree more with you about the attitudes on these forums lately. It is very sad. But i still love mmorpg.com. They have tons of gaming news, lots of great giveaways and contests, Game and hardware reviews, blogs, and much much more. I have been a member for quite awhile and as you can see i don't have many posts. But dont give up on mmorpg.com because of a few clowns that lurk in the forums. The site has a lot more to offer.
And just like everything else there a a lot of bad apples here but there are also a lot of great helpful people. Dont let the bad ones ruin it for you. That is what they want. Don't let em win!
Thanks,
Cen
The buisness is lucrative , more than ever. That is true , but it is not what i was talking about.
You see , Elkial , as many of other posters here - are not looking to play blockbuster game with biggest mass apeal.
Heck, if we did - we should be on GUITAR HERO forums.
MMOs are de-evolving. Form complex simulated virtual worlds - towards casual multiplayer arcade minigames. This is LUCRATIVE as it brings MMO to much wider audience.
But it is not advancing the genre anywhere.
MMOs lost their potential somwhere along the way ...
/agree ... totally!
____________________________
CASUAL CONFESSIONS - Draccan's blog
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I agree. The forums here are just soooo harsh. i mean, I'm like the biggest pussycat here, never flame or criticize, am always respectful no matter what gets thrown at me. And yet, I just keep getting attacked left and right by these aggressive forum pvpers.
I try to sing "Kumbaya" and get hit with "Hit the road, Jack".
Well no offense OP but every thread I can remember that you've started has said something negative about AoC or WAR. Now, it's fine if you want to be the pessimist, but if you wanted to do so and you expected to be treated with respect and not be called a troll...you need to take a deep breath and come to the real world. Sorry, but cultures change and society changes. I guess what happens here is commonplace, but honestly, I think it could be much much worse. Despite all the morons who spam "troll" and "fanboi" I still see points, counter-points, and good arguments being made.
If you're sensitive, then yeah, just take a break I suppose. But don't let the name calling get to you. Anyone who uses that as their only defense is weak. If you can't say something smart don't say it at all.
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A human and an Elf get captured by Skaven. The rat-men are getting ready to shoot the first hostage with Dwarf-made guns when he yells, "Earthquake!" The naturally nervous Skaven run and hide from the imaginary threat. He escapes. The Skaven regroup and bring out the Elf. Being very smart, the Elf has figured out what to do. When the Skaven get ready to shoot, the Elf, in order to scare them, yells, "Fire!"
Order of the White Border.