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EVE Evolved: Mining, the forgotten profession
EgaoNoGenki
Member Posts: 397
(Foreword: Article originally typed by Brendan Drain at http://www.massively.com/2008/07/08/eve-evolved-mining-the-forgotten-profession)
Five years since launch, space-faring MMO EVE Online is still going strong. Over the years, the game has evolved from its simple roots into a complex game packed full of content. Virtually every element of the game has drastically changed since launch to keep it new and interesting. Every free expansion brings new ships, modules and missions for all players. Some expansions have even brought us impressive new gameplay elements like the faction warfare system. One thing that unfortunately hasn't changed significantly over the years is the Mining profession. But why hasn't it been updated?
Nostalgia:
Back in 2004, EVE was a very different place. The universe was sparsely populated and the cost of new ships meant most players avoided war like the plague. Mining was the primary moneymaking profession and dedicated mining corps were commonplace. While mining was just as boring then as it is today, it was the easiest and fastest way of gathering minerals for production. Today, mining is one of the least profitable professions and isn't even close to being the best way of gathering minerals for production.
What happened over the years that has ruined the mining profession? I'll tell you what happened...
The main problem with mining as a profession is that it's always been a low priority for CCP. Nobody comes to EVE for the mining experience, in fact it's probably the most boring thing you can do in the entire game. Additions to PvP and mission content have always been a high priority, with new ships and missions in every major expansion. In the past year alone we've seen overhauls to several key PvP elements such as electronic warfare and hitpoints. Most recently we've had the Empyrean Age expansion which brought with it the long-awaited faction warfare system. Miners aren't so lucky, occasionally being thrown a bone in the form of a new ship type, module or implant. The mining system itself is no more developed or less boring than it was at launch.
Mission-mining?:
Being a low development priority isn't the only problem that the mining profession has encountered. Over the years, other sources of minerals have taken over in supplying the mineral markets. With mining being as boring as it is, it's no wonder people would turn to any alternative ways to gather minerals. Possibly the biggest alternative source of minerals is mission-running. Not only do missions provide tangible isk rewards and bounties from enemies but the ships drop loot which can be refined into minerals.
With the release of level 4 missions, battleship class NPCs became available to people in high security space. Players quickly discovered that refining battleship class loot produced massive amounts of minerals. Rewards and drop rates in level 4 missions have been tweaked over the years but they still produce massive amounts of minerals for export to the markets. Unlike mining in high security space, refining mission loot will produce a good spread of mineral types including expensive megacyte and zydrine. All of the minerals needed for production can be procured without leaving high security empire systems making mission-running better suited to gathering mineral for production.
The issue escalated when rogue drones first made an appearance in deadspace complexes and missions. Rather than providing isk bounties, rogue drones drop alloys which refine into minerals. It wasn't long before players discovered just how much they could make farming rogue drone complexes and doing drone missions. When the drone regions opened, the volume of minerals being exported to empire markets sky-rocketed and market prices of nocxium, zydrine and megacyte crashed across EVE.
Risk vs reward:
One of the basic design principles of EVE is a system of risk versus reward that gives the best rewards to those willing to take on the most potential danger. Mission rewards in low security space, for example, are much higher than those in high security space. Likewise, the lower security status systems have tougher pirate NPCs in asteroid belts that have higher bounty rewards. One of the main complaints about mining rewards is that the ore distribution system doesn't really follow this risk versus reward scheme any more.
Instead of finding better ore in lower security systems, you find different ore which yields different minerals. Veldspar, scordite and omber are common in high security systems and provide a lot of tritanium, pyerite and mexallon. The ores Hemorphite and Jaspet provide a large portion of Isogen and nocxium but are only available in pirate-ridden systems of security rating 0.4 and below. To mine large amounts of zydrine and megacyte, a player has to venture into the dangerous lawless areas of space where they can be attacked without penalty. Depending on the market value of each mineral, it could actually be more profitable to mine in a high security system than a low security one, breaking the risk versus reward scheme.
NPC base prices:
When EVE first went live and the mining profession was implemented, the asteroid distribution system described above actually did enforce the appropriate risk versus reward scheme. Mining in low security space made roughly twice as much isk as mining in high security space and deep 0.0 mining made an absolute fortune. This was because mineral prices were more strictly enforced through NPC buy and sell orders. Using those old buy order values, the yield in isk per hour scaled up smoothly as you went into progressively lower security rating systems.
Since the removal of the NPC mineral buy orders some years ago, the mineral market has tended toward its own prices based loosely on the laws of supply and demand. Market trends are able to pull mineral prices away from the old NPC values and upset the risk versus reward scheme. When the market for zydrine and megacyte crashed late last year and tritanium prices spiked at 3.6 per unit, the crummy old veldspar and scordite in high security space temporarily became one of the most valuable ores to mine.
The current ore distribution system only works well so long as mineral prices stay near the old NPC base prices. As it's clear that market pressures can push the prices away from these values, the ore distribution system shouldn't rely on them. I think it's about time for CCP to create a new ore distribution system which promotes mining in lower security level systems
Critical mass:
Another big factor in the reward from mining is the number of players in the game. With over 250,000 players in one server, the markets have reached critical mass and always full of minerals for sale. Because of this, players who need minerals for production don't have to mine it themselves. They can simply make isk by some other method and then buy the minerals they need from the market.
Currently, a specialised mining character struggles to make over 8 million isk per hour in empire systems while a relatively unskilled mission runner can exceed 10 million per hour. With a good ship and some experience under their belt, a mission-runner can earn over 20 or even 30 million isk per hour. As expected, things pick up in 0.0 with a good miner being able to pump out 40-50 million's worth of high end ore per hour.
Mining for the sake of convenience or for local production isn't really viable either. Because of new additions to the game such as freighters, jump drives and the warp-to-zero mechanics, transport of minerals is very fast. It's much easier to transport large volumes of minerals from trade hub systems like Jita to your base of operations than it is to mine them. Because of freighters and the warp-to-zero mechanics, it's now as fast to move 900,000m3 of minerals as it was to move 15,000m3 back in 2004.
FInal thought:
Five years down the line, I am forced to ask why CCP haven't completely revamped their mining game mechanics yet. It's no longer an effective primary means of mineral acquisition and currently yields less isk per hour than mission-running. When a specialised mining character with a year of industrial skills under their belt and an expensive tech 2 mining barge makes less than half as much isk as a six month old pilot in his first battleship, it's a clear indicator that something is wrong.
We've had complete revamps of ship hitpoints, ECM, missions and a number of other game elements and yet we're still using the same boring old mining system. The mechanics of mining are in dire need of a complete overhaul to breathe new life into a part of EVE that's gone stale with time. Plans for system-wide asteroid belts, comet mining and a more interactive mining experience have been laying on the drawing board for as long as I can remember. Isn't it about time those plans were implemented?
<Mod edit> Source is http://www.massively.com/2008/07/08/eve-evolved-mining-the-forgotten-profession
Warning: I could be on NoDoz caffeine pills so I hope I don't post anything outrageous!
Comments
Wall of text crits you for 1 hour of wasted time,soo I will cut to the chase.. without reading it (shocking)!
If you want mining to be profitable,do the following,get 2-3 of your friends to head to each macro hauler hub with a SB Battleship and keep it up for about a week,you will notice mineral prices going up.
Second solution if you are more daring,go to 0.0 and scrap the 0.0 farmers ,warning they use ravens but poorly fitted usualy,a HAC will make quick work of them,the problem stands with catching them in a belt.
Just to add mining in eve is very profitable time wise if you are mining in a secure system (hi-sec or 0.0 base system with active guards),why ? ... well because you can set 3 lasers on different asteroids and go do some stuff around the house.. close to your comp,in hi-sec you can leave your comp for awhile with trouble.
seriously, read the post next time. it was well-written, well-formatted, and even had pictures to keep stupid people occupied. tl:dr = i 2 stoopid 2 poast.
interesting op. mining is like industry - not a priority because ONLY 70% of eve engage in it.
it's a must that all dev time must be spent to cater to the 5% of the player base that lives exclusively in null sec.
which really makes you wonder why so many people DO play only in high-sec.... even with ccp ignoring high sec...
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Haven't been playing eve for a long time but do you really want to go back to the way the game was with sitting in front of a bunch of rocks for 12 hours doing nothing as your best source of income? Even if its in 0.0 it doesn't make sitting there doing nothing more fun.
Or do you just want miners to be sitting in low sec space so you can blast them?
Best way to mine is one capital industry with 5 or 6 of the barges and strip a 0.0 system down (while being protected by soem of your allies.
thats what i call a mining op
I'm not a no life that sits in front of his computer all day long, I'm an intern that sits in front of his computer all day long.
after actually reading the op, i saw that the op was more about "hey, maybe mining could get a little work. especially since everything else had been improved upon over the years." sort of ties into the subject, how mining is the forgotten profession...
the point is that maybe if ccp put a little time and effort into it, they could actually enact some of the multitude of changes to mining, which have been suggested over the years...
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
There's no doubt that mining is boring. However, I have found that I can do homework and mine at the same time, thus advancing in the game as well as being productive in the real world. Now there's a win win scenario.
spot on
This is the only reason i mine as i can get work/housework done at the same time.
spot on
This is the only reason i mine as i can get work/housework done at the same time.
...and read mmorpg.com
spot on
This is the only reason i mine as i can get work/housework done at the same time.
...and read mmorpg.com
I like to paint games workshop models while im mining.
Another great example of Moore's Law. Give people access to that much space (developers and users alike) and they'll find uses for it that you can never imagine. "640K ought to be enough for anybody" - Bill Gates 1981
I play Guild wars while I mine.
more on topic: Great post, it seems very true (I'm no expert but I have played the game on and off over its entire history) and I agree. I hope they put in a little work. I used to actually enjoy mining, back in the days when battleships were the best miners. these days low sec space is too crowded making it dangerous, and high sec is mined out. I think not only do they need to re-think how ore is spread out, they need to expand empire space to make more room for a population that is well over 3x larger than it was back when I thought mining was fun.
Everything creates huge amounts of negativity on the internet, that's what the internet is for: Negativity, porn and lolcats.
like the man said, high sec lvl 4 missions is the new all-purpose mining. with the added bonuses of standing increase, bounties, salvage, and the occasional *good* mod you can use or sell for a bundle.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Hi,
I read your post and while it is well written, it lacks one thing. Numbers.
Without the numbers to back up your claims your post is just one long whine. So please edit it and add some figures. Like the total amount of minerals mined against the total obtained by reprocessing loot.
re-posted on eve forums
http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=829085&page=1#1
Well I'm going to agree with post 30 of this thread adding that i don't think mining is a solo profession just like mission running it comes to a point when team work is needed to maximize profits and i cant see how a corp of miners holding a pos and flying a roqual in 0.0 can bring in less minerals than a corp of mission runners doing lvl4 missions looting salvaging and recycling. i to think we need to see some numbers (that you cant produce due to the content of your post being plagiarized from massively)
Will the real Brendan Drain (author of EVE Evolved at massively.com) please stand up?
Would that be you, Nyphur?
p.s. Those are some great articles, by the way!
Yeah, that's me. It's sad that people plagiarise my work, this isn't even the first time. I suppose I could consider it like a badge of honour, that my work is good enough that someone would want to pass it off as their own ^^; The original article can be found here:
http://www.massively.com/2008/07/08/eve-evolved-mining-the-forgotten-profession
What's worse is that someone posted a link to this thread on the eve-o forums and there are probably people discussing it there who don't realise I'm the author. One of the EVE developers did point it out, though
. Feel free to report the original post for plagiarism. I reported it under "other", not sure if there's another section more befitting
Insert signature that doesn't break the rules here
Yeah, that's me. It's sad that people plagiarise my work, this isn't even the first time. I suppose I could consider it like a badge of honour, that my work is good enough that someone would want to pass it off as their own ^^; The original article can be found here:
http://www.massively.com/2008/07/08/eve-evolved-mining-the-forgotten-profession
What's worse is that someone posted a link to this thread on the eve-o forums and there are probably people discussing it there who don't realise I'm the author. One of the EVE developers did point it out, though
. Feel free to report the original post for plagiarism. I reported it under "other", not sure if there's another section more befitting
(hands up) It was me that linked it on eve-o forums i didn't think it was getting enough response here and if i had known you were the author i would have given credit where due, luckly a dev pointed it out early on.
Funny I read your post and it seems to be the only whine in this thread.
I think it is one of the better posts on Eve I have seen. It is right on the mark when it comes to facts, numbers or not.
Not sure about solutions because no matter what you do, the non miners are going to yell.
Sure would love to see some solutions that open up low-sec. Personally, I would ban all capital ships from low-sec including motherships and carriers to start with.
Funny I read your post and it seems to be the only whine in this thread.
I think it is one of the better posts on Eve I have seen. It is right on the mark when it comes to facts, numbers or not.
Not sure about solutions because no matter what you do, the non miners are going to yell.
Sure would love to see some solutions that open up low-sec. Personally, I would ban all capital ships from low-sec including motherships and carriers to start with.
Its not facts tho its conjecture that makes a good read.....
I did read eon part 12 magazine.
First there was Apoc, then the covertor, then the hulk, as haulers the iteron 5 still best with the rigs on it
Then came rorqual only usable in 0.4 and lower, wonder when ORCA comes even out smaller version of rorqual. If it comes out.
then there where mining implants 3% and 5%, there was the ice mindlink module and mining mindlink module.
The ice mindlink is no where to be found anymore and michi implant is also not to be found any more.
and we have already very long the 5% and 10% like veldspar, concentrated veldspar and dence veldspar.
On 1 account all my industrial skills are lvl5. Only have buy 500 mil skillbook of rorqual still.
Can do lvl 5 mission if i want but i settle for 3 easy and once in a while a slave trader mission with lots of omber.
AK
If your in a good corp, mining is fun, but it is definatly a team thing ( lol solo mining to build me a hyperion is taking a long.... long.... long ..... long time).
That said, i do think with eve, how much isk you make an hour is not relevant unlike in other games where there are levels? Like in wow or whatever where end game is make as much gold so you can get the most "l33t" gear, sure savin up for the +5 implants takes its time, but thats what eve is like for a miner its not a hi octane crazy fest like PvP action.
Another one of course being that for eve scaling on the mining ship side, works with the rate you earn as to get from mining in a newb ship to mining in a hulk takes SOOOOOO long that you can afford one even with the amount of time it takes to mine.
BUT!!!!
and a big but!!!
more depth on the mining would be nice, and more ships and gadgets and doo-dads, doo-dads being the technical term for thingie-mee-jiggers ( not to be confused with mickey-mee-jaggers, yes i got a stones referance in!!!!), but serious more stuff better and hey sure make mining more interesting for the solo players, plus if mining becomes more interesting then the miners wont go crazy and start talking to the roids!!!!!
heaven and earth are ruthless,
and treat the myriad creatures as straw dogs
The first paragraph of your post wasn't interesting enough for me to continue wasting my time
Great post, there oculd be some improvements.
I found it to be a great post. When I played Eve, I was a miner...and I'd concur that if you want to get the most out of that, you really need to be working with a corp. Solo mining is ok if you want to multi-task in RL, but if you want to make the real isk and enjoy it, it is much better to be able to work and chat with the corpmates while you do it.