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World of Warcraft: Correspondent - A Look at Wintergrasp
Stradden
Managing EditorMember CommonPosts: 6,696
MMORPG.com World of Warcraft Correspondent Robert Duckworth pens this article discussing Wintergrasp, a PvP zone that will be released with the launch of the game's upcoming Wrath of the Lich King expansion.
Lake Wintergrasp is a new PvP zone in the continent of Northrend that will be released with the upcoming expansion pack Wrath of the Lich King (WotLK). Unlike previous attempts by Blizzard to create smaller world PvP objectives, such as the city of Halaa in Nagrand or the Auchindoun Towers, Lake Wintergrasp is going to fill up an entire zone. While the past world PvP objectives created by Blizzard mostly ended in failure, it looks like they learned a good deal from them and will finally get it right with Lake Wintergrasp.
Check out the article here.
Cheers,
Jon Wood
Managing Editor
MMORPG.com
Comments
link on the news article isnt working
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We are the borg!
You will be assimilated.
We will add you biological and technological distinctiviness to our own.
Your culture will adapt to serve us.
Resistance is futile
If Blizzard know they failed misserably with the current World PVP zones, why don't they give them a revamp and make them viable again?
Or has WoW subscribers secretly plummeted and no new players coming to the game anymore and veteran players not bothering rolling alts either.
It's a shame really. As all the old zones were a masterpiece. And the current World PVP zones a complete waste.
Cheers
And the city raids? ... LOL ... if you put more than 40 man in StormWind or IronForge the servers crash!!! How become possible to create a new world PvP area if you put more than 100 player in the same "server map" and it goes down?
Blizzard could test this new area in the beta test server, but in real working server, will they "hold the rocket"?
I don't think so, as in Eve online, where u cant battle while the rate is 60Vs60 or above ... just warp, lag, and get other spaceship.
First they have to fix the infra-structure issue, then TRY to implement this feature( reads BUG, might ).
Just finishing ... this new concept of world pvp will, only, benefit those who have TIME to grind, not an adult oriented MMO.
I think Blizzard still hasn't found a working dynamic for world PvP, so they don't really know how to revamp it. Yes the previous attempts failed miserably but you have to applaud them for their persistence in trying to make it work. It reads like they plan to implement more micro-processes into world pvp as opposed to cut and dry A yields B yields C tactics. At least they are trying to find a format that works for world PvP as opposed to abandoning it all together.
I do agree about the old zones being masterpieces as those are the only zones I really know of. (I quit just before TBC) The world PvP around Black Rock Mountain escalated to a point that alliance/horde treaties had to be forged on the forums so either side could make progress towards defeating nefarion (sp?). I also remember what it was like riding across the badlands dreading the idea of running into X,Y,Z member of the horde. It really made for one helluva gaming experience.
Anyway, I believe Blizzard wouldn't hesitate to revamp world PvP zones if they could find a formula that maintained player interests. I mean if the community can complain about classes and Blizz take the time to review/revamp each class surely they can do the same for a couple of pvp zones. Actually thinking back, cries came up about alterac valley (sp?) battlegrounds and sweeping changes were made to it.
The introduction of BG and the obscene amount of honor points they awarded for them killed world pvp in WOW and there is no hope of bringing it back at this point.
PVP in one zone of the world still doesnt qualify as world pvp.
The only thing I would disagree with is why do PVPer's need to have incentives, they are always bitching there is no world PVP, well if incentives are why there is no world PVP then thats the PVPers fault and not the games. All pvpers bitch they just want to pvp, well then do it, plain and simple.
Out of every 100 men, 10 should not be there,
80 are nothing but targets, 9 are the real fighters.
Ah, but one, ONE of them is a warrior,
and he will bring the others home.
-Heraclitus 500BC
Here we go again. Blizzard is going to tell us how new and different and amazing this world PVP option will be (it's not world PVP just because it isn't instanced, btw but I digress) and the gaming press and blogs will repeat the line over and over again on how awesome this new and exciting PVP is, then it will be released and exactly no one will care.
Sure riding around on your own Fantasy Motorbike™ across the frozen lake will be fun the first two times you do it, but it will get mighty boring real quick. It's so sad to see Blizzard running scared of Warhammer Online. First the achievement system that was tacked on and now the "amazing world PVP". They might as well just start calling it RVR and make their Orcs say "WAAAAAGH" because WAR is going to eat WotLK alive.
God, don't get me started on the ridiculous motorcycle mount. The stuff they are adding to this game is bordering on the absurd.
nice article and sounds interesting. I like that only one side can be attacking, that means one will have to defend and that could be quite fun. One promising aspect of the new expansion at least, though I hope the only new addition for pvp isn't just that.
WoW has been made to revolve around incentive for so long, I don't think the players know how to have fun anymore. Everything is always about the reward, like it's some kind of contest.
WoW has been made to revolve around incentive for so long, I don't think the players know how to have fun anymore. Everything is always about the reward, like it's some kind of contest.
While I can agree with your point the fact still remains anyone can pvp anywhere at anytime even on pve servers by simply flagging yourself so if a pvper has a problem then maybe they should complain to the other pvpers instead of always blaming Blizzard.
WoW was originally a pve game and added pvp on top of that to give something to those who like to pvp but yet they are still never satisfied. If pvp is so important to those that complain then they need to complain to other pvpers then maybe there would be more world pvp.
Out of every 100 men, 10 should not be there,
80 are nothing but targets, 9 are the real fighters.
Ah, but one, ONE of them is a warrior,
and he will bring the others home.
-Heraclitus 500BC
We don't need incentive.
We WANT meaningful PvP.
We don't want PvP subject to simply killing another player because he's there.
That's like saying that a raider should raid for raiding and they don't need drops to do it.
Why shouldn't I be rewarded for beating a player of equivelent level? It's harder then killing a an NPC that does the exact same thing every time and takes little to no thought or skill. Take away the incentive to raid and I guarantee no one will raid.
Some people need to accept the truth of it. 10+ million subs, who do you think is currently in control of the PvP market? The PvP servers are as full and active as the PvE ones. BG's on Eldre Thalas (pve) is just as active on Smolderthorn (pvp). Beleive it or not, there are possibly more people pvping in wow then not.
If by arial combat Blizzard means that two people on flying mounts will be able to fight each other then the flying mount problem will be fixed for at least the expansion. If they mean that you will just be able to drop bombs in the PvP zone then that's just retarded.
The xpac really needs to come out. I'm bored and want to try the new zone.
Edit: WoW was not built as a solely pve game. It was concieved as an RvR game on the PvP servers and PvP by conscent on the PvE servers. The honor system (you know the pvp tracking system that's been revamped something like 2 or 3 times now) was one of those things that Blizzard failed to get in at launch.
We don't need incentive.
We WANT meaningful PvP.
We don't want PvP subject to simply killing another player because he's there.
That's like saying that a raider should raid for raiding and they don't need drops to do it.
Why shouldn't I be rewarded for beating a player of equivelent level? It's harder then killing a an NPC that does the exact same thing every time and takes little to no thought or skill. Take away the incentive to raid and I guarantee no one will raid.
Some people need to accept the truth of it. 10+ million subs, who do you think is currently in control of the PvP market? The PvP servers are as full and active as the PvE ones. BG's on Eldre Thalas (pve) is just as active on Smolderthorn (pvp). Beleive it or not, there are possibly more people pvping in wow then not.
If by arial combat Blizzard means that two people on flying mounts will be able to fight each other then the flying mount problem will be fixed for at least the expansion. If they mean that you will just be able to drop bombs in the PvP zone then that's just retarded.
The xpac really needs to come out. I'm bored and want to try the new zone.
Edit: WoW was not built as a solely pve game. It was concieved as an RvR game on the PvP servers and PvP by conscent on the PvE servers. The honor system (you know the pvp tracking system that's been revamped something like 2 or 3 times now) was one of those things that Blizzard failed to get in at launch.
apparently you didnt read the original post, the OP constantly said pvp was non existant in areas because of incentive, that is why I commented the way I did.
As far as so many pvping well that is because Blizzards so called incentive program encourages even casual gamers to pvp just to get better gear so bashing Blizzard over pvp is just dumb considering they probably produced more non pvpers into pvpers.
Out of every 100 men, 10 should not be there,
80 are nothing but targets, 9 are the real fighters.
Ah, but one, ONE of them is a warrior,
and he will bring the others home.
-Heraclitus 500BC
Great article that hit on some key points.
I'd like to add that the Honor per Hour gained in Battlegrounds will always be the better incentive for PvP players. Until they address that issue, World PvP will always take a back seat.
You're missing a few key points in your attempt to dis WoW and play the WAR fanfare.
First, you imply that WoW is trying to implement RvR in order to keep from losing customers to WAR. But you forget that WoW has had RvR from the very start in the form of Horde vs. Alliance. They've had world PvP objectives since well before WAR was being talked about. Just because it wasn't done great with their past efforts doesn't mean that Blizzard is running scared from WAR.
Second, you state that WoW's introduction of achievements is a direct response to WAR's book of lore. What you forget is that LotRO has had achievements since launch. City of Heroes/Villains introduced badges well before that. And everyone loves the Xbox Live ahievements system. So who's copying who? It would be far more accurate to say that Blizzard and Mythic are both copying Turbine, Cryptic and Microsoft than that Blizzard is copying Mythic.
You're missing a few key points in your attempt to dis WoW and play the WAR fanfare.
First, you imply that WoW is trying to implement RvR in order to keep from losing customers to WAR. But you forget that WoW has had RvR from the very start in the form of Horde vs. Alliance. They've had world PvP objectives since well before WAR was being talked about. Just because it wasn't done great with their past efforts doesn't mean that Blizzard is running scared from WAR.
Second, you state that WoW's introduction of achievements is a direct response to WAR's book of lore. What you forget is that LotRO has had achievements since launch. City of Heroes/Villains introduced badges well before that. And everyone loves the Xbox Live ahievements system. So who's copying who? It would be far more accurate to say that Blizzard and Mythic are both copying Turbine, Cryptic and Microsoft than that Blizzard is copying Mythic.
You BOTH don't know what RvR is, so instead of throwing it around as a replacement term for PvP please think first. RvR is equal to WW2. Think of it this way. You had soldiers on the front lines (PvPers) and you had people at home in the factories (PvE). If America didn't have either one of these factors they could never have won. WoW has NEVER had RvR and it will never have it.
You know that WAR is taking the achievement system to the next level, and now WoW feels like it must copy it because the rewards are almost exactly the same. Titles, tabards, non-combat pets. Compared to WAR's rewards of titles, items, trinkets, experience, guild advancement, and realm advancement. Watered down version = WoW.
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A human and an Elf get captured by Skaven. The rat-men are getting ready to shoot the first hostage with Dwarf-made guns when he yells, "Earthquake!" The naturally nervous Skaven run and hide from the imaginary threat. He escapes. The Skaven regroup and bring out the Elf. Being very smart, the Elf has figured out what to do. When the Skaven get ready to shoot, the Elf, in order to scare them, yells, "Fire!"
Order of the White Border.
I have to agree that World PvP soon died down after the introduction of battlegrounds. Especially after they formed battle groups to create more battleground instances running at once.
I've wondered too why they have not reworked current world PvP objectives. Besides fighting over the spirit towers in the Bone Wastes a few times a day and an occassional fight over Halaa there is no World PvP in WoW. No matter what server type you play on.
I think Lake Wintersgrasp is a step in the right direction I don't think it is enough. They need to introduce another World PvP zone in mainland Azeroth.
My major problem with this is the same issue we have with Halaa and the Auchindoun Towers. On our server the Alliance out number the horde by 3 to 1, sure we can attack and take a target, like halaa, but the minute we get it, the call goes out and before we know, we're out numbered 3 to 1, and i'm sure this is going to be the same thing, but on a zone wide scale....
All I have to say is
War is coming Mother Fuckers, and Blizzard trembles at its approach.
I think wintergrasp will be a big epic fail because..
- when everyone gets to 80 will they ever use it? No because they will be doing the big dungeons like Arthas.
- you probally see only like 15 or 16 alli or horde fighting in that area because there bored as shit and got nuthin else to do.
- everyone going be grinding to get to 80 so no time for wintergrasp.
-and people will always be in dalaran and will do pvp BG for there season gear .. because wintergrasp you never earn season gear from it...
More Rep,More Faction,more dungeons,more dailies,another gearfest. I am not buying this expansion because I fear its just more of the same,and I am tired of more of the same. EQ2 is 10 times the game that warcraft is now,Hell SWG is better than wow right now.
the people who think Blizzard is not taking a Notic about WaR and are not scared to loose subs are kidding themselves......
all MMO companies look at all other MMOs as a base to make their game......ALL Companies
So LOTRO and CoX had title systems didn't see WoW put them in when lotro launched and didn't think they were important when they looked at CoX...
but now WAR has them..its not based on the "who is copying who" is based on NOW Blizzard finds titles important enough to add to their game..
WoW will not die with War.........it's north american sub base will take a hit and it will loose tons of subs in Europe......
it will keep its 5 million asian players....
War is comming and Blizzard will feel it........
I dont see what Blizzard are adding to WOW with this update, they need to add it to the fundamentals of the game not an area.
I think this can be answered quite easily, a game where PvP is based on character level rather than player skill / character skill is always going to fail. It does not matter what Blizzard add, WOW is a tried and copied gameplay from the last generation of MMOs. Thankfully these will die soon.
Can anyone really say that combat is good in WoW and EQand all the other clones like vanguard? No. The future is in FPSMMOs and I will be so glad when a proper one comes out (DarkFall). PlanetSide was the first and has been the real only one for so so long. Roma Victor is a nother good attempt but you need patients to get into it.
There have been two hybrids - Age of Conan and Tabla Rasa. Both now FPS but a hybrid that work OK but not really enough player involved. WAR is just a joke and I can not believe people will accept another EQ clone. Seems they do though ...
PvP is the main reason for an MMO when you think of it. Why PvE when there a other players? OK PvE together, that is something different. It adds such a human dimention to things, ie a real person not just thier level or skill.
There is no major game out there apart from Roma Victor (not money unless you read the shite, I have never done so) and in beta DarkFall and perhaps EarthFall that offer this.
This new offering from Blizzard is shite, as the basic game is shite in my opinion. Stop levels, make it player based not time and loot based.
...Warhammer?!... is that you?
oh yeah and another thing...
If they put PvE objectives in a PvP zone i promise there will be mucho whining