I have a lifetime sub, so I haven't exactly left, but I haven't played in a while either (since about April or so). And I stopped playing mainly because I couldn't find groups to do the epic quests. I got up to level 50 without too much difficulty, but I am still stuck on book 9 (Carn Dum) which I just can't get a group for.
Partly this is my own fault. I have a small child, and can't dedicate hours to gaming in one go. Even when I did manage to find a group going into CD, I would usually find that they had different priorities and we would do other things first - after 2 hours or so, something always came up and I had to bow out before the quest was complete.
For this reason, the extra books really did nothing to attract me back. I basically can't progress, neither in story nor in level, so playing seems a little pointless.
From my experience, in my kin, we are often going back and doing books 1 through 14. Not at once time, granted, but we find that not everyone does them when they come out, or some do not even touch them until they are level 50. We also find time to do the books just for fun.
In addition to doing the books, there is a quest to refinish these epic quests. As you collect marks, you can trade them in for teal items. Since this has come out, I am always being asked to do books, or seeing requests in OOC, LFF, and even regional sometimes for books.
The books are only one story line however. There is a lot more quests. While I do wish that there was something more of a quest chain for it, we even get to have a quest with Sméagol (Gollum) in it. The riddles from Bilbo are a fun quest chain as well, and one that is far too short.
The game does wear me down with the virtue deeds, as I get buried in bodies of dead mobs, just to get another determination, valour, or something of that sort. The good side of it, is I do not find myself having to worry about leveling. I get a good portion of my level done by killing crawlers in Trollshaws. Once I am 50, I realize I am also getting a good bit of profit from these deeds, and have a good bit of gold.
In all, Lord of the Rings Online is a very social game for me. I enjoy logging on and talking with friends and/or meeting new people. The game has a winning community for me.
Sounds like the OP already found out that at level 12 there really is no group content yet. Most of the grouping starts happening in the Lone Lands, Barrow Downs, and the Old Forest. But the LFF "tool" (if you can call it that) really stinks. I don't know why they didn't incorporate a tool like they have in DDO. Sure they added the find a fellowship button a while back, but all that does is change your who note to the quest name... which we could already do before, but nobody uses anyways. I'd recommend everyone try joining your server's glff (global LFF) channel, if there is one.
Also OP, I don't know if you do this... but avoid sending blind invites to fellowship. In my experience most people in this game don't like it. Send a tell first asking if they want to join you and state what you want to do, then send an invite if they accept.
So im enjoying the loremaster alot, ive been doing nothing but soloing at these levels it seems not many want to group. So im thinking ok maybe later levels it will be differant, later on I decided to ask in advice channel and more then one person told me that in this game everyone wants to do there own thing and only group when they have to, while in forums people swore that this was mostly a grouping game.
I am not happy about this at all I finally found a really good mmorpg but lacks the grouping community I enjoy so much, it seems these days city of heroes is the only game like this. Part of the reason I quit wow is because the pugs where horrible and everyone wanted to solo, if I want to solo I could play my damn console and my ds im sorry but im so frustrated with this crap. Solo is extremely lame in my opinion, sure it should be avaialble because we all do from time to time but its not fun in a pve online game geeeeeesh!. In pvp games its understandable but pve? Come on.
If you like to group ALOT ffxi is the game for you
He's right. You almost always have to group. But ffxi is a bit more in depth and challenging than most games out there now, so prepare to work at it if you try it.
I have a lifetime sub, so I haven't exactly left, but I haven't played in a while either (since about April or so). And I stopped playing mainly because I couldn't find groups to do the epic quests. I got up to level 50 without too much difficulty, but I am still stuck on book 9 (Carn Dum) which I just can't get a group for. Partly this is my own fault. I have a small child, and can't dedicate hours to gaming in one go. Even when I did manage to find a group going into CD, I would usually find that they had different priorities and we would do other things first - after 2 hours or so, something always came up and I had to bow out before the quest was complete. For this reason, the extra books really did nothing to attract me back. I basically can't progress, neither in story nor in level, so playing seems a little pointless.
That was probably true before book 14. With B14 though, they have implemented the reward system for re-doing the epic FS quest instances - this helps finding all-50 PUG's for these instances almost too easy.
I suggest you re-try doing those epics now, it should be a zillion times easier this time
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
It is sounding like you are mostly relying on PUG's for your grouping needs. Personally, I think PUGS are a last resort. If you have not done so already, why not join a Kin that is advertising with interests and players similiar to yourself. I always find in MMO's that joining a guild (or Kin in this case) that you can make a lot of good friends, and even if people are not on the same quests or book as you, there are always people in the Kin who are willing to help you out.
Also, when you do form a PUG, and they are successful and you all worked well as a team, before everyone says their goodbyes, mention that you enjoyed the fellowship, and suggest you add them to friends, so tnat you can group again in the future. If you are lucky, then you can even form a steady fellowship with a handful of players who will quest and level alongside you.
After doing this several times, you should have a full roster of compatible players in your friends list, so when you next want to form a fellowship, then you can look and see who is online and then send them a tell to see if they want to group up.
Personally. I have never used the Fellowship searching tool. I find it too awkward to use, and so I suspect do other players. If I am trying to form a PUG, I will use the /LFF channel. I'll mention the name of the quest and how many are in the group. Try not to spam too much though, or you will annoy potential group members.
Lastly, someone mentioned about not sending a blind invite. I wholeheartedly agree with them. If I get an invite from a complete stranger, and they have not even taken the time to tell me why first, I instantly decline it. They have shown such a level of disinterest that I have no inclination to group with them. On the other hand, if someone sends me a tell first, asking if I want to join, and the reason for it, then even if it is not on a quest that I need, I will probably join to help them.
There, hope some of that helps you out. I play on Laurelin, an EU server, so I cannot speak for the US ones, but I guess they are similar. I've played most MMO's out there, and I can honestly say that Lotro has one of the best communities. It would be a shame if you gave up on the game just now, especially with Moria just about to come out. Let me know how you get on.
I dunno, personally I've had a lot of problems joining a guild blindly. Not in LOTRO (since I haven't found one), but in other games, I've been on where the leader viewed all the members are simply resource/item gatherers for her, whenever we did anything together, she got the pick of all the loot. The next one I joined kept starting trouble with other guilds, which led me to getting ganked by those other guilds every time I tried to play. That got old real quick (though wouldn't be a problem in here).
Ideally, the best way to join a guild is to meet a member, make friends with them, and have them invite you. But grouping in this game is so rare, that's been impossible to do. You almost have to join blind, which is tricky
And when I have grouped, they usually broke up so quickly and I never saw the members ever again, even in game. Which is weird, I've gone from a game where I knew almost all the players, to one where I don't think I've ever seen the same player twice. (With one exception, but he was on a free trial and no longer plays the game)
Then again, maybe things are better on the EU servers. Sounds like there are more people there, anyway.
There's no grouping community in any MMO anymore. You can almost always get a pug dungeon run in WoW, always get an MM, LDoN run in EQ1, Heroics in EQ2, PvP runs in other games are probably the only close thing to groupcentric we'll find nowadays. MMO players have become trained to not touch or talk to other players. Always "Me First!" and never to band together. Not much any of us can do.
I know where you're probably coming from, but this is still not true, at best a huge overstatement. I have found excellent PUG's in LOTRO, ones that went throug full quest chains or epic books together. True, we didn't become IRL friends (sorry, almost no time for even existing long-time IRL friends anymore, when you're a grownup, sadly...), but the atmosphere was excellent.
You do not play games to find new communities to be a full member of when you are at or over a certain time in your life. That's life mate, and not the games that changed for me and for you too (and for everyone except for the cliche fat long haired comicbook collector guy in his mom's basement ... )
DB
I think the reality is somewhere in between yours and ZD's post.
I find, much more in the last few years, that more and more players seem to look down on grouping. How many times do you see people asking about a MMO they're checking out, and one of their first questions is "can you solo to end game?" Or, how others discuss the idea of having to group - for anything - with such disdain, you'd think the very thought of cooperating with another player - ever - gives them nightmares.
They're not looking for a multiplayer experience in terms of playing as a team *with* other players. They're looking to play solo *among* other players.
I've said it for a couple years now, and I still believe it's because of the console-centric background many have. In a typical console game - even a RPG where you're controlling a party - it's just you. You don't have to depend on anyone else. You're a one-person group. I really believe that's the genesis of that anti-group, "solo only" mindset.
They're approaching a MMO just like they approached any console game they'd played before.... as a single-player, lone-warrior experience.
That said... are there parties to be found? Sure, though most times lately - including in LoTRO - I find that players only group up as a necessary evil. And when they do, they mostly only group up with personal friends, or kin-mates or people otherwise in their little clique.
If it's a PuG situation, more times than not, they're there for a couple quests - to achieve their own personal goal - and then they're gone. They don't know anything about the people they just spent an hour or two with, and they don't want to. They got what they wanted and they're outta there. I've been in PuGs where such people don't even say "Thanks for the group" or "Bye" or anything. They finish, disband and are gone.
Even in a game like FFXI which is (in)famous for its heavily group-centric playstyle, players are finding more and more ways to solo; as they do so, they're becoming more and more insular in their playstyle. "Static Groups" are pretty much the norm now in FFXI, for most anything outside of xp parties - and even those are feeling the squeeze of static groups. I haven't felt the community "grow" in FFXI in a few years now. If anything, it's feeling smaller and smaller.
In the end... what I'm getting at... There are players who still enjoy that sense of grouping up with new people, working together, achieving their goals as a team, etc... But more and more, people just want to do their own thing, at their own pace and don't want to ever have to worry about grouping up with someone else to do so.
in that sense... i do believe that "community" in MMOs is slowly becoming an antiquated concept. The "We" generation who originally embraced and played MMOs as the group experience they were originally conceived as (PnP AD&D > MUDs > MMORPGs) is steadily giving way to the "Me" generation who just want to do their own thing by themselves and, in some cases, would be ecstatic if grouping was removed from MMOs altogether.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
So im enjoying the loremaster alot, ive been doing nothing but soloing at these levels it seems not many want to group. So im thinking ok maybe later levels it will be differant, later on I decided to ask in advice channel and more then one person told me that in this game everyone wants to do there own thing and only group when they have to, while in forums people swore that this was mostly a grouping game.
I am not happy about this at all I finally found a really good mmorpg but lacks the grouping community I enjoy so much, it seems these days city of heroes is the only game like this. Part of the reason I quit wow is because the pugs where horrible and everyone wanted to solo, if I want to solo I could play my damn console and my ds im sorry but im so frustrated with this crap. Solo is extremely lame in my opinion, sure it should be avaialble because we all do from time to time but its not fun in a pve online game geeeeeesh!. In pvp games its understandable but pve? Come on.
I encountered this problem once in this game as well I posted a thread basically saying I wish the game had more players so that it would be easier to find groups, I got plenty of replies of people who didn't see it that way but at any rate I'm back in game having a good time on Landroval look up Jaxsun if you are ever there and want to group with someone.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
It seems sad but true Mike, and I think that it is a damning inditement of society in general. We live in a culture that is consumer conscious and materialistic, where mediocrity is celebrated and vapid, shallow people are too image-conscious and selfish too bother about anyone else.
Sure, there are times when I like to solo, say if I don't have a lot of time, or if I am not in the mood to chat, but without a doubt, the most exciting experiences I've had in MMO's have been when I've shared in the experience with others, whether it was taking down a boss, or completeing a tough instance. Those are the key moments which make MMO's my favourite genre, and solo-play will never duplicate or replace that.
Maybe I am in the minority, but for the sake of the hobby, I hope not.
I've heard rumours that Mines of Moria is going to have 24 man raids, as well as 3 man fellowships, so everyone will be catered for, and I suspect that some of the most exciting moments in recent MMO-gaming may lie await in that expansion. There is talk of battles with The Watcher (the beast that attacked The Fellowship when they entered Moria), and that leads to you having to get legendary weapons too defeat it. The end battle with The Watcher is being tipped as a collossel battle, that will surely provide a lot of shared fun. Then there is Durin's Bane, the Balrog who fought Gandalf in the books. I have a feeling that when you finally encounter him, that it will be part of some great quest, and that there will be some very dramatic scenes when he shows up. All of this will have to be done with the co-operation of players in a team, and I cannot think of another gaming experience which matches it, at least not a solo one.
I dunno, personally I've had a lot of problems joining a guild blindly. Not in LOTRO (since I haven't found one), but in other games, I've been on where the leader viewed all the members are simply resource/item gatherers for her, whenever we did anything together, she got the pick of all the loot. The next one I joined kept starting trouble with other guilds, which led me to getting ganked by those other guilds every time I tried to play. That got old real quick (though wouldn't be a problem in here). Ideally, the best way to join a guild is to meet a member, make friends with them, and have them invite you. But grouping in this game is so rare, that's been impossible to do. You almost have to join blind, which is tricky And when I have grouped, they usually broke up so quickly and I never saw the members ever again, even in game. Which is weird, I've gone from a game where I knew almost all the players, to one where I don't think I've ever seen the same player twice. (With one exception, but he was on a free trial and no longer plays the game) Then again, maybe things are better on the EU servers. Sounds like there are more people there, anyway.
I understand what you're saying. In other games, I was friends with the players who then invited me into the guild. I did join a kinship in LOTRO, but soon realized there were never more than 3 players on with me, and no one talked or anything. I got the impression I was blindly asked just to be another number for their list.
Now I'm back to solo, but looking for a kinship that fits me. I can't really fault the game, because when I'm playing I'm usually not paying attention to the chat box and not being outgoing in general.
The problem is that if you are a new player you will struggle to find people for groups because most already have level 50 characters and really do not wish to grind through areas and book quests again.
Comments
I have a lifetime sub, so I haven't exactly left, but I haven't played in a while either (since about April or so). And I stopped playing mainly because I couldn't find groups to do the epic quests. I got up to level 50 without too much difficulty, but I am still stuck on book 9 (Carn Dum) which I just can't get a group for.
Partly this is my own fault. I have a small child, and can't dedicate hours to gaming in one go. Even when I did manage to find a group going into CD, I would usually find that they had different priorities and we would do other things first - after 2 hours or so, something always came up and I had to bow out before the quest was complete.
For this reason, the extra books really did nothing to attract me back. I basically can't progress, neither in story nor in level, so playing seems a little pointless.
From my experience, in my kin, we are often going back and doing books 1 through 14. Not at once time, granted, but we find that not everyone does them when they come out, or some do not even touch them until they are level 50. We also find time to do the books just for fun.
In addition to doing the books, there is a quest to refinish these epic quests. As you collect marks, you can trade them in for teal items. Since this has come out, I am always being asked to do books, or seeing requests in OOC, LFF, and even regional sometimes for books.
The books are only one story line however. There is a lot more quests. While I do wish that there was something more of a quest chain for it, we even get to have a quest with Sméagol (Gollum) in it. The riddles from Bilbo are a fun quest chain as well, and one that is far too short.
The game does wear me down with the virtue deeds, as I get buried in bodies of dead mobs, just to get another determination, valour, or something of that sort. The good side of it, is I do not find myself having to worry about leveling. I get a good portion of my level done by killing crawlers in Trollshaws. Once I am 50, I realize I am also getting a good bit of profit from these deeds, and have a good bit of gold.
In all, Lord of the Rings Online is a very social game for me. I enjoy logging on and talking with friends and/or meeting new people. The game has a winning community for me.
Sounds like the OP already found out that at level 12 there really is no group content yet. Most of the grouping starts happening in the Lone Lands, Barrow Downs, and the Old Forest. But the LFF "tool" (if you can call it that) really stinks. I don't know why they didn't incorporate a tool like they have in DDO. Sure they added the find a fellowship button a while back, but all that does is change your who note to the quest name... which we could already do before, but nobody uses anyways. I'd recommend everyone try joining your server's glff (global LFF) channel, if there is one.
Also OP, I don't know if you do this... but avoid sending blind invites to fellowship. In my experience most people in this game don't like it. Send a tell first asking if they want to join you and state what you want to do, then send an invite if they accept.
If you like to group ALOT ffxi is the game for you
He's right. You almost always have to group. But ffxi is a bit more in depth and challenging than most games out there now, so prepare to work at it if you try it.
That was probably true before book 14. With B14 though, they have implemented the reward system for re-doing the epic FS quest instances - this helps finding all-50 PUG's for these instances almost too easy.
I suggest you re-try doing those epics now, it should be a zillion times easier this time
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
To the OP:
It is sounding like you are mostly relying on PUG's for your grouping needs. Personally, I think PUGS are a last resort. If you have not done so already, why not join a Kin that is advertising with interests and players similiar to yourself. I always find in MMO's that joining a guild (or Kin in this case) that you can make a lot of good friends, and even if people are not on the same quests or book as you, there are always people in the Kin who are willing to help you out.
Also, when you do form a PUG, and they are successful and you all worked well as a team, before everyone says their goodbyes, mention that you enjoyed the fellowship, and suggest you add them to friends, so tnat you can group again in the future. If you are lucky, then you can even form a steady fellowship with a handful of players who will quest and level alongside you.
After doing this several times, you should have a full roster of compatible players in your friends list, so when you next want to form a fellowship, then you can look and see who is online and then send them a tell to see if they want to group up.
Personally. I have never used the Fellowship searching tool. I find it too awkward to use, and so I suspect do other players. If I am trying to form a PUG, I will use the /LFF channel. I'll mention the name of the quest and how many are in the group. Try not to spam too much though, or you will annoy potential group members.
Lastly, someone mentioned about not sending a blind invite. I wholeheartedly agree with them. If I get an invite from a complete stranger, and they have not even taken the time to tell me why first, I instantly decline it. They have shown such a level of disinterest that I have no inclination to group with them. On the other hand, if someone sends me a tell first, asking if I want to join, and the reason for it, then even if it is not on a quest that I need, I will probably join to help them.
There, hope some of that helps you out. I play on Laurelin, an EU server, so I cannot speak for the US ones, but I guess they are similar. I've played most MMO's out there, and I can honestly say that Lotro has one of the best communities. It would be a shame if you gave up on the game just now, especially with Moria just about to come out. Let me know how you get on.
I dunno, personally I've had a lot of problems joining a guild blindly. Not in LOTRO (since I haven't found one), but in other games, I've been on where the leader viewed all the members are simply resource/item gatherers for her, whenever we did anything together, she got the pick of all the loot. The next one I joined kept starting trouble with other guilds, which led me to getting ganked by those other guilds every time I tried to play. That got old real quick (though wouldn't be a problem in here).
Ideally, the best way to join a guild is to meet a member, make friends with them, and have them invite you. But grouping in this game is so rare, that's been impossible to do. You almost have to join blind, which is tricky
And when I have grouped, they usually broke up so quickly and I never saw the members ever again, even in game. Which is weird, I've gone from a game where I knew almost all the players, to one where I don't think I've ever seen the same player twice. (With one exception, but he was on a free trial and no longer plays the game)
Then again, maybe things are better on the EU servers. Sounds like there are more people there, anyway.
R.I.P. City of Heroes and my 17 characters there
I know where you're probably coming from, but this is still not true, at best a huge overstatement. I have found excellent PUG's in LOTRO, ones that went throug full quest chains or epic books together. True, we didn't become IRL friends (sorry, almost no time for even existing long-time IRL friends anymore, when you're a grownup, sadly...), but the atmosphere was excellent.
You do not play games to find new communities to be a full member of when you are at or over a certain time in your life. That's life mate, and not the games that changed
for me and for you too (and for everyone except for the cliche fat long haired comicbook collector guy in his mom's basement ... 
)
DB
I think the reality is somewhere in between yours and ZD's post.
I find, much more in the last few years, that more and more players seem to look down on grouping. How many times do you see people asking about a MMO they're checking out, and one of their first questions is "can you solo to end game?" Or, how others discuss the idea of having to group - for anything - with such disdain, you'd think the very thought of cooperating with another player - ever - gives them nightmares.
They're not looking for a multiplayer experience in terms of playing as a team *with* other players. They're looking to play solo *among* other players.
I've said it for a couple years now, and I still believe it's because of the console-centric background many have. In a typical console game - even a RPG where you're controlling a party - it's just you. You don't have to depend on anyone else. You're a one-person group. I really believe that's the genesis of that anti-group, "solo only" mindset.
They're approaching a MMO just like they approached any console game they'd played before.... as a single-player, lone-warrior experience.
That said... are there parties to be found? Sure, though most times lately - including in LoTRO - I find that players only group up as a necessary evil. And when they do, they mostly only group up with personal friends, or kin-mates or people otherwise in their little clique.
If it's a PuG situation, more times than not, they're there for a couple quests - to achieve their own personal goal - and then they're gone. They don't know anything about the people they just spent an hour or two with, and they don't want to. They got what they wanted and they're outta there. I've been in PuGs where such people don't even say "Thanks for the group" or "Bye" or anything. They finish, disband and are gone.
Even in a game like FFXI which is (in)famous for its heavily group-centric playstyle, players are finding more and more ways to solo; as they do so, they're becoming more and more insular in their playstyle. "Static Groups" are pretty much the norm now in FFXI, for most anything outside of xp parties - and even those are feeling the squeeze of static groups. I haven't felt the community "grow" in FFXI in a few years now. If anything, it's feeling smaller and smaller.
In the end... what I'm getting at... There are players who still enjoy that sense of grouping up with new people, working together, achieving their goals as a team, etc... But more and more, people just want to do their own thing, at their own pace and don't want to ever have to worry about grouping up with someone else to do so.
in that sense... i do believe that "community" in MMOs is slowly becoming an antiquated concept. The "We" generation who originally embraced and played MMOs as the group experience they were originally conceived as (PnP AD&D > MUDs > MMORPGs) is steadily giving way to the "Me" generation who just want to do their own thing by themselves and, in some cases, would be ecstatic if grouping was removed from MMOs altogether.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I encountered this problem once in this game as well I posted a thread basically saying I wish the game had more players so that it would be easier to find groups, I got plenty of replies of people who didn't see it that way but at any rate I'm back in game having a good time on Landroval look up Jaxsun if you are ever there and want to group with someone.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
It seems sad but true Mike, and I think that it is a damning inditement of society in general. We live in a culture that is consumer conscious and materialistic, where mediocrity is celebrated and vapid, shallow people are too image-conscious and selfish too bother about anyone else.
Sure, there are times when I like to solo, say if I don't have a lot of time, or if I am not in the mood to chat, but without a doubt, the most exciting experiences I've had in MMO's have been when I've shared in the experience with others, whether it was taking down a boss, or completeing a tough instance. Those are the key moments which make MMO's my favourite genre, and solo-play will never duplicate or replace that.
Maybe I am in the minority, but for the sake of the hobby, I hope not.
I've heard rumours that Mines of Moria is going to have 24 man raids, as well as 3 man fellowships, so everyone will be catered for, and I suspect that some of the most exciting moments in recent MMO-gaming may lie await in that expansion. There is talk of battles with The Watcher (the beast that attacked The Fellowship when they entered Moria), and that leads to you having to get legendary weapons too defeat it. The end battle with The Watcher is being tipped as a collossel battle, that will surely provide a lot of shared fun. Then there is Durin's Bane, the Balrog who fought Gandalf in the books. I have a feeling that when you finally encounter him, that it will be part of some great quest, and that there will be some very dramatic scenes when he shows up. All of this will have to be done with the co-operation of players in a team, and I cannot think of another gaming experience which matches it, at least not a solo one.
I understand what you're saying. In other games, I was friends with the players who then invited me into the guild. I did join a kinship in LOTRO, but soon realized there were never more than 3 players on with me, and no one talked or anything. I got the impression I was blindly asked just to be another number for their list.
Now I'm back to solo, but looking for a kinship that fits me. I can't really fault the game, because when I'm playing I'm usually not paying attention to the chat box and not being outgoing in general.
The problem is that if you are a new player you will struggle to find people for groups because most already have level 50 characters and really do not wish to grind through areas and book quests again.