Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
I fail to see how this is a good game. (Wall of Text)
richmix
Member Posts: 121
I wanted to like this game. I really did. I started with UO way back in the day, and I loved the sandbox feeling to it: the ability to do whatever you want when you want to do it, to build your character any way you please, the wide open world to explore (fully) at your leisure from day 1. EverQuest continued that awesome feeling, though to a lesser extend in some departments, and DAoC lived up to it fine also. And then came a spider that "revolutionized" the industry, not by giving players more options, but rather by taking options away.
That is the legacy of WoW: take away 90% of the content so the remaining 10% can be perfected and made as droning as possible. Grinding became the WoW core philosophy, and almost anything you could possibly do in the game could be focused into one of four simple goals: rep gain, honor gain, experience gain, or raiding progression. I played WoW for awhile, and I enjoyed it for awhile. Azeroth as least maintained the illusion of a sandbox world with a simplified crafting system and a variety of illusory "goals" for players to pursue. But when all the points are tallied in WoW, you realize that those 4 categories I mentioned earlier utterly dominate the game. You cannot possibly, in any way, shape, or form, escape them--there is no way to do new, creative, and/or exciting things. So, in the hope that Warhammer could do one better than WoW, I quit and waited for the open beta.
Wow, am I disappointed. My problems with Warhammer are numerous, so I'll begin laying them out by category:
The PvE Game: Probably my single biggest beef with the way things are right now. PQs are a joke, general PvE is absolutely laughable. Not one single class has any difficulty whatsoever soloing normal class mobs, and most classes can handle champions just fine with some preparation. Heroes obviously present a problem, but it's rare to encounter them, except in PQs. Because of the ease of monster killing, questing literally becomes a chain of "run here, smash these buttons, run back." And PQs are equally as redundant, with each one seeming exactly the same as the last. And because of the way the victory point system is currently structured, PvE counts almost for nothing anyway: the victory point reward for capturing tier objectives HEAVILY outweighs that of completing multiple quests or PQs. So why PvE? It's not a fun alternative to PvP, it's not a fun way to effectively earn victory points, and it's flat out not fun.
Scenarios: While sometimes scenarios can be entertaining, there is no way balancing the combat. Level or class distributions can heavily shift the inherent advantage from one team to another, and the sad fact is that on each racial front, one side does have an inherent class distribution advantage against the other. Even if you do manage to get a fairly even distribution of careers and levels for your scenario, frankly, the scenery gets boring. Since you can only queue for the single scenario for the battlefront you are in, your only Tier 1 option as an elf is to literally do Khane's Embrace over and over and over again, unless you have a friend in a different battlefront who can queue up for you. The inability to queue for other scenarios without huffing it a couple hundred miles across the ocen really puts a damper on things. Also, the queue system, in my opinion, is heavily flawed, oftentimes preventing players of heavily populated realms from joining scenarios at all. The game frankly needs more scenarios and a better way of managing realm populations--otherwise, scenarios should have never been implemented, as they take away from the only other fun thing to do:
Open RvR: While 3/4 of your realm is either hacking it out in scenarios or standing around twiddling their thumbs waiting to get into one, you and your small band of lackeys decide to scour the countryside, searching for some fresh enemy meat. Trouble is, there isn't any. Despite having spent many hours in the Tiers 1 and 2 open RvR areas, I have seen a grand total of 2 people and have effectively killed exactly one. Capturing objectives, too, is something of a joke, since there is no incentive for the enemy to defend them. You can buy renown gear at any keep you control, which means if you simply go out and take a different keep instead of defending the one you currently control, you can just as easily get the stuff you need. Capturing a new keep also almost always awards more renown and exp than defending one you already control, so why the hell should I defend? Why should my enemies defend? And what good is open RvR if the RvR aspect of it -takes away- from the good old PvP?
WHERE'S DA FIGHT?: The chat system is probably the worst suited for what it needs to do that I've seen in recent history. There is no way to warn or be warned about incoming enemy attacks or the location of a nearby group of enemy soldiers. The map indicates ongoing fights, but what if there are none? If a few of my buddies and I are out riding the countryside and spot a dastardly group of our arrogant brethren--but are too vastly outnumbered to engage them--wtf do we do? Hide? Run away? Send a carrier pigeon with a greeting card to beg for mercy? The inability to call for reinforcements is sorely missed, and with it is missed the sense of community created by defending your homeland alongside your brothers. While guild and warband chat can be used to this extent, the viability of this versus intel coming from your entire realm in that area is next to nil. This game doesn't need a better way to find the fight--not really. It needs more interaction between friendly players. Without it, we might as well be playing Planetside, Guild Wars, or, well, Crysis for that matter.
So What?: Nothing you can do in this game--nothing--matters. If you capture your enemy's capital city, the conflict resets. Whoop da whoop. If you reach R40 RR80, you are still a single person with only a very, VERY slightly increased ability to contribute to the overall war effort. There is no overall sense of war effort like there was in DAoC, where capturing your enemy's relic meant the display of a PERMANENT symbol of glory and a realm-wide buff--but only for as long as you could defend those precious objects. In WAR, I wonder why I should care about my enemy's city. Sure, it's big, it's shiny. It would suck for them if we blew it up. But then the thought hits me: wait, no it wouldn't... it's not even all that great for us. I can't see anything at all to accomplish as a realm in this game. And that, for an RvR experience, is a devastatingly crippling blow.
So far, I can't understand why people are so excited about this game. It seems lackluster, at best, continuing with WoW's trend of limiting things you can actually do in an effort to perfect those possible playstyles. Yet, despite Mythic's efforts to focus on the RvR experiene, it seems a bit beyond 12 steps below lackluster to me. There is no iconinc force in the game, nothing to make me care about the war my race is fighting. There is no sense of cooperation between players, no common goal or unifying spirit. The PvE game is laughable, the PvP game is not truly focused on PvP (but rather on "winning," which can theoretically be done without killing a single player), and the epic experience that an RPG is supposed to offer is depressingly absent.
Yes, this game is very bug-free for release; yes, it performs very well. But have any of you stopped to consider why this should be hailed as a "good" game? I'm sad to say it, but I don't think this game will be the one that stands this genre back up on its feet. If anything, this is the straw that pierced the lion's heart: I firmly believe that we may never see a truly solid MMO experience ever again. And the fact that the sentiments expressed above are those of a small minority only push that expectation forward. Sorry guys: I just don't get it.
Comments
To me, it seems like your just nitpicking. Good job and blinding your self.
Unlike you, I didn't want to like the game; in fact, was sure I wouldn't, because I prefer free for all PvP and graphic quality like AoC. I also starrted with UO and prefer sandbox games, so we have a lot in common.
Unlike you, my experience with WAR is totally different.
Where's the war? Are you serious? I PvP over 90% of the time. Whether it's in scenerios, or in tier 1, over in Nordland, there is constant RvR, and that only gets more intense as you level up. I had the opportunity to get bumped up to level 32 during a closed beta stage, participated in Siege warfare, with hundreds of players fighting, along with siege equpment , and it was a total blast.
I've tried every single class in each realm, and with the exception of a few, I can see myself having fun playing any of them.
Our experience with WAR is very different. Given our similarities, while I can't speak in totality, I do believe you have a very limited experience of this game from which your conclusions are being drawn upon.
Aside from what I've written, I see no point in going further. With any game, what makes people excited usually, is the "Fun Factor". It's off the charts for many, and whether you simply haven't had the opportunity to experience it yet, or it just doesn't do it for you, is for you to decide.
Good luck -CC
"Lately it occurs to me,
what a long, strange trip it's been". -Hunter
I could not agree more. Dead on.
As is, Warhammer should remove leveling completely-- Hell --Make a steam game, because if this is what mmorpgs have to offer.. Then this genre is lacking. What is our hope now? Aion-- Doubtful. Darkfall -- Very doubtful..
Might be time to reroll for the next 3-5 years.. Oh how the mmorpg industry has changed... Am I am sandbox lover? Of course, to me thats what mmorpgs are-- Depth with fun gameplay.. now a days get in line.. Do this.. Then this.. than that... and this.. Repeat this.. all the while having little to no fun factor.
Do not compare this game to DAOC..
I refuse to drink this koolaid.... Because its far to watered down.
Not reading any more than this. Ex UO people are fanatical lunatics, and nothing except for Darkfall is going to make them happy again. So, shut your face and wait for Darkfall like all the other good little ex UO players.
Lol, you are so right. I wanted so badly to like this game. The truth is that it is amazingly craptastic!!!
I've also pvped about 90% of my time in Warhammer and I just find it to be bland, unorganized, and just not fun.. Well I take that back-- it was somewhat enjoyable for 2-3 hours.. Then I really took a look at what it had to offer.. Also I was hoping for long-term objectives in world rvr-- Which Warhammer really does not have-- (People will say it does)
Edited:
Also just wanted to say I appreciate your post and I really am happy that your enjoying the experience more than I am
Lol every RL friend thats played DAOC loves WAR so much more.
But that explains it. Your a sanbox fanboi. Guess were your sanbox is? It was in your backyard after you grew too old to play in it so it was taken out.
Get it? Sandbox is of the past and is gone for many reasons. Do i know them? No but devs do.
This post = QFT!!!!
THE OP HOWEVER -- TLDR -- Give me a break, you write a novel on a 3 day experience based on limited content availability. That's like me joining the US Coast Guard and then 5 years later getting out and telling everyone I am a war veteran with sad stories of my experience in Iraq. Give me a break, YOU HAVE NO EXPERIENCE TO TALK OF THIS GAME. YOU HAVE YET TO PLAY IT.
-- Games are never as fun as their hype. It's still doing the same things as 90% of the MMOs ever since EQ1 wrote the template for 3D MMOs.
-- You can't ever be that newbie again. Not Warhammer, not WoW, not AoC, or any other MMO out there claiming originality.
-- You, I, and many other people won't be satisfied until once again we can be immersed,as newbs once more, into a mysterious realm of which we know nothing.
Lol every RL friend thats played DAOC loves WAR so much more.
But that explains it. Your a sanbox fanboi. Guess were your sanbox is? It was in your backyard after you grew too old to play in it so it was taken out.
Get it? Sandbox is of the past and is gone for many reasons. Do i know them? No but devs do.
Devs don't. Publishers do. Linear games are cheaper to produce and simpler for the idiot legions of the world to understand.
You dont have to see how this is a good game for me. Just see how this game is not a good game for you and move on.
The reason why there are so many mmo's out there is so that you pick the one that fits you the most.
You don't like certain features of the game? Fine, you have your reasons. I love most of the features this game has to offer, I have my reasons.
And I won't try to convince you on how cool I think the features are, but please respect people that enjoy the game.
I've also pvped about 90% of my time in Warhammer and I just find it to be bland, unorganized, and just not fun.. Well I take that back-- it was somewhat enjoyable for 2-3 hours.. Then I really took a look at what it had to offer.. Also I was hoping for long-term objectives in world rvr-- Which Warhammer really does not have-- (People will say it does)
Edited:
Also just wanted to say I appreciate your post and I really am happy that your enjoying the experience more than I am
Edited: I am also glad you've made a decision based on a beta segement thats been out for 3 days, and spoke of it's entirety as if you've played it all and done it all. Congratulations on ignorance.
-- Games are never as fun as their hype. It's still doing the same things as 90% of the MMOs ever since EQ1 wrote the template for 3D MMOs.
-- You can't ever be that newbie again. Not Warhammer, not WoW, not AoC, or any other MMO out there claiming originality.
-- You, I, and many other people won't be satisfied until once again we can be immersed,as newbs once more, into a mysterious realm of which we know nothing.
No, you don't understand. I really want someone to explain to me what makes this a good game. I don't see it, but there are so many people who like it, there must be a reason, right? Maybe I give people too much credit.
I was trying to quote DJ's signature and it wasn't working, LOL.
I totally agree with you. When we started playing mmorpgs we started knowing everything about them. Those of us that know how most mmorpgs are can not be truly satisfied and say wow, this is neat and fresh, until a game comes out with original ideas. Riding on a horse sword fighting, fighting on ships while traveling to new lands in the game, skill system that binds to equipment...tons of ideas can be implemented into games that will give them that factor...the factor of "OMG WTF IS THIS IT'S KIND OF NEAT!".
P.S. There are alot of buggy features in this game so far. Guess it's to be expected in beta, however closed beta has been in for over a year and yet there's still big bugs in the beginner areas. Such as "this mob is unattackable, yet can attack you" and other bugs such as "this boss is covering your loot from the best, good luck getting it"...also I was levitating earlier today...I was on a fence and moved 2 feet over and was still in the air, looked like I was walking on air...these graphics and the cut on the graphics really need improvement.
Time to resub to DAOC for you by the sounds of your personal experience.
OP:
You are not alone. Far from.
But I respect people that enjoy the WAR game,... sometimes the reverse can't be said.
No, you don't understand. I really want someone to explain to me what makes this a good game. I don't see it, but there are so many people who like it, there must be a reason, right? Maybe I give people too much credit.
What a stupid and meaningless question to ask. "I really want someone to explain to me what makes this a good game." Why do you like the music you listen to? Why do you watch the movies you enjoy? Why do you enjoy the games you enjoy?
Do you realize you are not the only person in this world? (I realize that may have came as a shock to you, but bear with me.) If you don't like the game, it's perfectly NATURAL, not everything is for everyone, if it were, everyone would be bums and doctors at the same time. Get it?
There is nothing anyone can say that will make you say "OH THAT IS WHY THIS IS A GOOD GAME!!" and your a moron for asking. You're just trying to stir the pot and I'm the sucker fallin' for your childish games.
-- Games are never as fun as their hype. It's still doing the same things as 90% of the MMOs ever since EQ1 wrote the template for 3D MMOs.
-- You can't ever be that newbie again. Not Warhammer, not WoW, not AoC, or any other MMO out there claiming originality.
-- You, I, and many other people won't be satisfied until once again we can be immersed,as newbs once more, into a mysterious realm of which we know nothing.
Go to Chaos vs Empire T1 and tell me there is no RvR to be found...
People are just sticking to T1 since the characters will be wiped so not surprised you don't find much action in T2.
Also most classes cannot solo a champion of equal level unless they really work hard at it. This isn't EQ where killing an even level normal mob is an accomplishment for some classes, very few people actually like systems like that.
Lol every RL friend thats played DAOC loves WAR so much more.
But that explains it. Your a sanbox fanboi. Guess were your sanbox is? It was in your backyard after you grew too old to play in it so it was taken out.
Get it? Sandbox is of the past and is gone for many reasons. Do i know them? No but devs do.
I know them (the reasons)-- Because MMORPGS have become the bottomline.. And the way to make the bottomline better is to make the game easier (often with lower requirements) and more linear.. Your right I do enjoy the freedom of sandbox games.. Why the in the world would you not enjoy a game with massive depth? Why would you not enjoy something complex? I understand people want to "turn off" and "relax" when they play computer games, I really do.. but its just gone too relax, too linear, and too bland.. and I'll even say IN MY OPINION... as a disclaimer because I know there are a lot of people who do enjoy that type of game.. Flame away but it still doesn't change the fact I've watch a genre DIE.
Is sandbox dead? Yes.
Is sandbox coming back? I hope to <insert religious of entity of choosing here>
And once again,
Is darkfall the answer? Very.. very.. VERY doubtful
Actually, my level 19 shaman gets almost instant queue's in all three t2 scenario's all day long
-- Games are never as fun as their hype. It's still doing the same things as 90% of the MMOs ever since EQ1 wrote the template for 3D MMOs.
-- You can't ever be that newbie again. Not Warhammer, not WoW, not AoC, or any other MMO out there claiming originality.
-- You, I, and many other people won't be satisfied until once again we can be immersed,as newbs once more, into a mysterious realm of which we know nothing.
I'm loving the game so far...but after playing the game a few times over the last few years at different conventions I knew I probably would. I've ran into quite a few minor annoyances. Mobs getting bugged untargettable,I've crashed 3 times now after my release timer goes to zero in scenario's,healers seem rediculously overpowered.
Despite the few negatives I'm still eagerly awaiting release. With as few problems WAR has right now it wont take them long at all to fix everything, and get the game running smoothly.
Lol every RL friend thats played DAOC loves WAR so much more.
But that explains it. Your a sanbox fanboi. Guess were your sanbox is? It was in your backyard after you grew too old to play in it so it was taken out.
Get it? Sandbox is of the past and is gone for many reasons. Do i know them? No but devs do.
I know them (the reasons)-- Because MMORPGS have become the bottomline.. And the way to make the bottomline better is to make the game easier (often with lower requirements) and more linear.. Your right I do enjoy the freedom of sandbox games.. Why the in the world would you not enjoy a game with massive depth? Why would you not enjoy something complex? I understand people want to "turn off" and "relax" when they play computer games, I really do.. but its just gone too relax, too linear, and too bland.. and I'll even say IN MY OPINION... as a disclaimer because I know there are a lot of people who do enjoy that type of game.. Flame away but it still doesn't change the fact I've watch a genre DIE.
Is sandbox dead? Yes.
Is sandbox coming back? I hope to <insert religious of entity of choosing here>
And once again,
Is darkfall the answer? Very.. very.. VERY doubtful
I wish there were big worlds with less grind and more depth to be honest. Warhammer just doesn't offer enough outside exploration. Not enough environment. But, it's still not a bad game. Just needs improvement in a lot of areas. Again, guess that's why It's still in beta. It has time to improve. But, it better do it farily quickly if they want to keep everyone. Whether you people want to believe it or not, Warhammer does have annoying problems that need to be fixed.
No, you don't understand. I really want someone to explain to me what makes this a good game. I don't see it, but there are so many people who like it, there must be a reason, right? Maybe I give people too much credit.
What a stupid and meaningless question to ask. "I really want someone to explain to me what makes this a good game." Why do you like the music you listen to? Why do you watch the movies you enjoy? Why do you enjoy the games you enjoy?
Do you realize you are not the only person in this world? (I realize that may have came as a shock to you, but bear with me.) If you don't like the game, it's perfectly NATURAL, not everything is for everyone, if it were, everyone would be bums and doctors at the same time. Get it?
There is nothing anyone can say that will make you say "OH THAT IS WHY THIS IS A GOOD GAME!!" and your a moron for asking. You're just trying to stir the pot and I'm the sucker fallin' for your childish games.
I'm asking the same question though.. What is the appeal.. I guess its new.. new can be exciting, but in my book-- its just not a mmorpg.. I like your signature by the way.. Sadly I don't feel that the "mmorpg" market is trying to appeal to me.. I am part of a minority.. The majority enjoys WoW and maybe Warhammer (time will tell)-- The majority has spoken.. I suppose I need to move on.
No, you don't understand. I really want someone to explain to me what makes this a good game. I don't see it, but there are so many people who like it, there must be a reason, right? Maybe I give people too much credit.
What a stupid and meaningless question to ask. "I really want someone to explain to me what makes this a good game." Why do you like the music you listen to? Why do you watch the movies you enjoy? Why do you enjoy the games you enjoy?
Do you realize you are not the only person in this world? (I realize that may have came as a shock to you, but bear with me.) If you don't like the game, it's perfectly NATURAL, not everything is for everyone, if it were, everyone would be bums and doctors at the same time. Get it?
There is nothing anyone can say that will make you say "OH THAT IS WHY THIS IS A GOOD GAME!!" and your a moron for asking. You're just trying to stir the pot and I'm the sucker fallin' for your childish games.
I'm asking the same question though.. What is the appeal.. I guess its new.. new can be exciting, but in my book-- its just not a mmorpg.. I like your signature by the way.. Sadly I don't feel that the "mmorpg" market is trying to appeal to me.. I am part of a minority.. The majority enjoys WoW and maybe Warhammer (time will tell)-- The majority has spoken.. I suppose I need to move on.
You're probably like me. Looking for that game that has HD Quality graphics with weaather, blood, and a nice enjoyable outside environment. One that looks almost too good. Lots of quests, little grind, and lots and lots of pvp.
The reason you might feel healers are over powered might be due to people playing badly and not as a team. You should have well rounded teams, with healers of your own, and people shoudl protect the healers so the healers can keep you alive.
I have a 19 shaman who 1 on 1 can stomp most classes, but this game isn't a 1 on 1 game, it's mass pvp versus mass pvp, unfortunately right now, everyone is nubs and no-one actually works together, so a lot of 1 on 2's and 1 on 3's and 1 on 1's do happen, and yes healers will seem like the most OP, but once ppl start looking at it from a "team" perspective, things will change dramatically.
Imagine those same guilds who conquer all those top dungeons in WoW putting forth the same effort to conquer cities and orgnanizing as such. Imagine an opposing guild with equivelant power and organization. That'll be a fun good fight to watch/be a part of. Even smaller organized groups can do heavy damage when done right. Think about the movie Braveheart, buncha nobodies doin' there own thing = nothing, when gathered and lead properly with strategy = powerful force.
-- Games are never as fun as their hype. It's still doing the same things as 90% of the MMOs ever since EQ1 wrote the template for 3D MMOs.
-- You can't ever be that newbie again. Not Warhammer, not WoW, not AoC, or any other MMO out there claiming originality.
-- You, I, and many other people won't be satisfied until once again we can be immersed,as newbs once more, into a mysterious realm of which we know nothing.
Well, I could go through and respond to each and every one of your points, but that would take forever and I'm lazy, lol. So I'm gonna point out a couple things you seem to be upset about.
First of all, you say that in DAOC you can capture your enemy's capitol or whatever, and grab their relic and then display it, which you wish you could do in WAR. Funnily enough, you CAN actually do this. You see, there are these things WAR has called Trophies. Now I haven't really looked into them much, and I'm sure you haven't looked into them at all, but you should. For example, and Paul Barnett has said this in recent interviews, lets say you capture the enemy capital. You sack it, burn it to the ground, destroy the two unique strong points within the city, unlock the king, fight him (which is an incredible feat itself) and win. What do you get for this? Woop-de-do and wait for the city to reset? Hell no. How about you cut the king's head off and keep it? How about you can then take the head and show it off to the enemy players so you can say "Ha ha, I killed your king, I'm better than you, and I can prove it" (to quote Paul). Maybe for killing 500 High Elves in PvP you get an elf skull, and what do you do with it? You can put it on your belt. Maybe you get a Dwarf beard (read the lore) to tie to your sword to let every dwarf know you're a badass dwarf killer. Maybe you get a symbol of the Emperor to emblazen on your shoulder. There's something like 13 different spots for these trophies on each character to be filled up with various things that not only differentiate you from the next player, but also show how cool you are. There's definately lots of meat there to be looked in to.
Also you seem to say that removing the grind is a bad thing. Honestly I think it's a good thing. If you like grind, perhaps you might try an asian game. They all love grind very much. One of the reasons I think WoW did so well is because it is easier to advance. People don't want to sit down after a long day at work and have to spend 6 hours grinding only to get half a bar towards the next level which won't actually give you anything new. That's no fun, that's a job. People want to sit down and play for a short amount of time, and feel like they've accomplished something. Or atleast made some headway.
I feel like all of your points are either ones you haven't looked into very much, or are quite subjective. In this case, there's really nothing anyone can do if you're dead set to hate the game.
"Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000