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Pot. Kettle. Black.
Kainis
Member Posts: 436
First, I am well aware this is my first post, and some will quickly point that out and call me a troll. I have been a lurker on this site, visiting almost every day for the last several years, not only to learn about a host of games, but to learn about the general gaming community itself. I know that some of the simpletons will use various schemes to try to dismiss this thread. Everything from first post, to grammar usage, etc. Just hear me out, starting with my experience and perspective from other games.
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SWG-till CU------ ruined with CU/NGE
EQ2- till vampire 'mini-expansion'---- wasn't that enticing, plus too many bugs, then became dated
Guild Wars---- end game became boring, when all that was left was guild pvp
WoW/BC---- made for those that wish for mindless entertainment. showed the world that you don't have to think to play an mmo.
LoTRO------ graphics are lazy for it's time. takes too many liberties with lore, and best for fanboys of the books (kind of like current swg, in that sense)
CoH/V--- graphics and gameplay not too bad, missions are mind-knumblingly repetitive. no real difference in scenery among missions. NCSoft Customer Service is nearly nonexistant
DAOC Catacombs- dated gameplay/graphics. couldn't really get into the story, and useless unless you were high lvl to do rvr
Lineage 2---- bot ridden, kind of reminded me of swg docs. character graphics were nice, environmental- not as much. gameplay was kind of fun, but an enormous grinde.
Eve- different, challenging, hardcore, sometimes a bit boring while going on long pipe runs. great strategic battles, but smaller ships could use a little more of a twitch feel, something along the lines of jump to lightspeed's controls. not great for larger ships, but would make frigates and dd's much more fun and effective.
AoC- great graphics, tried some new things and didn't quite work. world was much too small, combat not as useful as it could be. expensive bugs ( as in man-hours to fix) for a company with their finances
D&D Online- boring in the first 5 minutes. UI and graphics need intensive care.
Horizons- tried something sort of new for it's time. company/game missmanaged. buggy... you know the story
Vanguard: Soh- graphics not bad, but someone needs to shoot the specular map-happy environmental artists. there is a phong setting to t-maps. and you dont need to use particules to create 3d clouds. that creates unneeded load, and further glitching. sigil needs to learn to use their programs. gameplay glitchy, pvp non-existant. could do without cardgames, and bring in meaningful pvp as an alternative use of time.
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Now hopefully you can tell that I am by no means a 'fanboy' of any current games ( although keeping an eye on Aion and Stargate for the last few years). Being relatively objective and nonpartisan, I have to question the War fanboys, on why they are blindly defending the game that has clear flaws that have been pointed out for some time.
Everything from WoW 2.0 graphics (yes they are slightly better than WoW's, but only because they use a higher rez tmap), to clunky gameplay. Is it supposed to litterally feel like you are your 25 year old tabletop figurine, or something a little more fluid and lifelike? Also they cannot claim to be an mmorpg, with nearly nonexistant pve content. The absence of it, turns the great Warhammer, into Battlenet 2.0. I am greatly saddened to see that. Yes I know it's beta still, but you guys gave grief to AoC for the last several months, pointing out graphics, gameplay, and content as reasons why Funcom should be erased from history. Now you are being extremely forgiving to MJ, that like Erling Ellisen-- promised the sun, but dropped his pants and showed a moon.
It's people like blind fanboys that cause games to come out the way they are. To you, betas aren't for testing, but to get a head start on the game- so you can claim your machizmo when it is released (and of course turn around and bash it after release, and go to the next big thing)
People have valid concerns about Warhammer. Don't just dismiss them as trolls, because they don't agree with you.
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Tried- L2, Ryzom, WAR, DDO, PWI, Tab Rasa, Requiem, Champs, AA, JD, PWI, SUN, Dawntide
Played- SWG (pre-cu), AoC, VG, WoW, LoTRO,CoX, EQ2, DAOC, GW, PotBS, Aion, MO,APB, NASA, Fallen Earth, DCUO, Rift
Playing- EVE, Black Prophecy, TOR
Waiting for- Tera, Jumpgate Evo, WH40K, WWE, WOD, TSW
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"Hey, if Activision liked it, then they should have put a ring on it," Double Fine President Tim Schafer said. "Oh great, now Beyonce is going to sue me too."
Comments
WHAT? Non existant PvE content? Im sorry but are you talking about WAR or some other game? Clearly it cannot be WAR since it has 1000's of regular quests, 300+ Public Quests, and tons of lairs, dungeons and instances to explore spread across 30 zones.
avery, is that you?
1000s of 'typical' quests, I would question that number, based on how quickly you lvl to max (before you start the rep grinding). Also, it has been stated time and again, that PQs are a rehashing of certain battlegrounds from WoW. For a game claiming to be something so different, and so better- I expect different and better, not just new facepaint.
If there are tonnes of lairs, dungeons, instances- why has rvr/ pvp become such a main selling point? Why haven't even the most rabid 'fanboys' promoted this as much as they have the other 'qualities'?
Show me some smoke, and I will agree on the presence of fire.
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Tried- L2, Ryzom, WAR, DDO, PWI, Tab Rasa, Requiem, Champs, AA, JD, PWI, SUN, Dawntide
Played- SWG (pre-cu), AoC, VG, WoW, LoTRO,CoX, EQ2, DAOC, GW, PotBS, Aion, MO,APB, NASA, Fallen Earth, DCUO, Rift
Playing- EVE, Black Prophecy, TOR
Waiting for- Tera, Jumpgate Evo, WH40K, WWE, WOD, TSW
--
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"Hey, if Activision liked it, then they should have put a ring on it," Double Fine President Tim Schafer said. "Oh great, now Beyonce is going to sue me too."
obviously severity didn't read the post.
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Tried- L2, Ryzom, WAR, DDO, PWI, Tab Rasa, Requiem, Champs, AA, JD, PWI, SUN, Dawntide
Played- SWG (pre-cu), AoC, VG, WoW, LoTRO,CoX, EQ2, DAOC, GW, PotBS, Aion, MO,APB, NASA, Fallen Earth, DCUO, Rift
Playing- EVE, Black Prophecy, TOR
Waiting for- Tera, Jumpgate Evo, WH40K, WWE, WOD, TSW
--
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"Hey, if Activision liked it, then they should have put a ring on it," Double Fine President Tim Schafer said. "Oh great, now Beyonce is going to sue me too."
I don't see how having little pve content excludes it from the MMORPG field but ok. To each is his own.
I mean, I guess people can't roleplay in a pvp oriented game.
Anyway, I'm no fanboy of any game. I'm an equal opportunity gamer and will give just about any game a shot.
This one, so far, it's fun for me. It's based in a world I like, the warhammer universe, and its a pretty fun game all around.
Most of the things you listed are a matter of personal preference.
Ok, so the graphics aren't that great, but they are good enough for a lot of people. (I personally love them, the color schemes remind me of the citadel paints)
the game has flaws, I'll admit that, but the overall fun factor makes the game worth playing. (For me at least.
As far as your little rant goes. I'm sure people have heard this a million times, so expect the troll stamp.
Have fun.
Groovy.
PQs a rehash of WoW battlegrounds? Dude you know NOTHING about this game. PQs are not battlegrounds. They are event QUESTS. What is like battlegrounds are SCENARIOS. WAR has 22 scenarios. WoW has 4.
Rep grinding after you hit max level? Youre talking about WoW here since there is NO rep grind in WAR when you hit max level. Reputation is in the form of influence, its divided up into areas, multiple per zone, and are tied to public quests. By the time you hit 40 the only Influence you will care about are the remaining ones you havent done on your way to 40 in the other Tier 4 zones.
RvR is a main selling point because its much fun than anything else in the game and is the whole focus of the games endgame.
You sir know nothing about this game, are a troll, and should obviously get a fucking clue.
Agreed OP. It's plain fact that this game is not at all up to par on graphics or animations. Believe it or not it seems like they improved the animations SLIGHTLY from what they used to be, but yeah, not so great still.
In terms of gameplay I'd say it's enjoyable, but it's really not anything I couldn't find in other MMOs. Actually, and I dont mind being flamed for it, but the game feels strikingly similar to WoW at its release. Sure WAR's 2 major cities are impressive, but WoW's main cities are all pretty amazing in size and detail, and there were double the amount at launch.
WoW's animations are embarrassingly above this game's animations, and that just seems like poor quality and is a real disappointment....On the bright side PQ's are slick and PvP is awesome, but the game does feel rushed and unpolished in general.
What is really irritating is as you said, anyone who says anything about the game is "under-par" instantly gets flamed. That's not how it should be. As good as the PvP might be, the rest of the game has some real flaws that should be pointed out. I think it has potential, it's just not OMG-good and doesn't really have the polished feel to it yet (hopefully it'll get there).
The only reason the graphics are better is due to higher res texture maps? Are ya KIDDIN me? Look at the models. WAR has much higher polygon models than WoW does. End of story. It's not debatable.
Man is born, man lives, man dies, and its all vanity.
From your list of games, it looks like the only MMO you ever even remotely liked is Eve. I just don't think MMOs is your thing.
It's not the fact that people dislike the game, it's the fact that people come in here and make tl'dr posts about how bad the game is, and either say things that have been rehashed or just pull things up out of the blue (or talk about the game as if they know about it.)
And to be honest, if one side gets to be aggressive about their opinion, so can the other. Especially on the board dedicated to the game they play/want to play.
Groovy.
Amen.
Man did all guilds in other mmorpgs ring the alarm bell or something? Mayday, mayday this one might actually be fun and we might actually loose members to it?
Btw you claim not to be a fanboy of any mmorpg but failed to hide the fact that you are indeed an Eve fanboy.
Good post. I like your take on other games. Accurate except for AoC - funcom lied and blew junks at the same time.
WAR will be a populr game regardless of the lack luster graphics and less focus on PvE. Its not a next gen mmorpg but it does have new ideas. If it has a decent launch it will grow and dominate.
I plan om playing it just to hold over until Darkfall comes out....if ever.
wtf is this guy using duel accounts?
Groovy.
Lol, wouldnt surprise me tbh.
K. let me see if I get your points, who knows in the end I might agree with you.
1. PQs are 'scenerios' and WAR has 22, while WoW had 4. So that makes it all the more worth it? Grinding even more 'scenerios' for 'influence' points (read rep points) to get better pvp gear? Sounds just like grinding battlegrounds for faction specific gear. which brings me to my next point, I think...
2. Influence points are divided between the tier zones. I guess that is sort of like going from AB to AV, to EotS, with the ultimate goal to get the most high lvl pvp gear.
As stated before, if this game is being hailed as so much better than WoW, why is so blatantly ripping it off? Don't get me started on the whole which came first scenerio, as I know well enough, War IP came before WoW, but that WoW as a <game> is still WAR's 'deadbeat dad'.
I have been studying WAR, and many other games for some time. Luckly, I was not victimized with the whole GOA thing (that's a forebare of a much more questionable future), and so kinda know what's going on with the game. I understand why the graphics are the way they are (to stay true to war, and make it look better than wow. But come on, use some higher poly models, and make the ranges further out before greying. Don't give me the whole 'graphics aren't on max' crap. What you see now, is what you will see upon release.
Now, maybe you have confused the intentions of my original post. I am not necessarily a 'hater' of this game, just one that sees some obvious flaws which will be game breaking for some. I am trying to rehash the fact that many valid concerns are getting the response that you so... eloquently gave me.
No I am no fan of Blizzard, other than their cinematics. I had hoped that was clear in the original post, but I guess not. On that subject alone, I like WAR's as well.
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Tried- L2, Ryzom, WAR, DDO, PWI, Tab Rasa, Requiem, Champs, AA, JD, PWI, SUN, Dawntide
Played- SWG (pre-cu), AoC, VG, WoW, LoTRO,CoX, EQ2, DAOC, GW, PotBS, Aion, MO,APB, NASA, Fallen Earth, DCUO, Rift
Playing- EVE, Black Prophecy, TOR
Waiting for- Tera, Jumpgate Evo, WH40K, WWE, WOD, TSW
--
--
"Hey, if Activision liked it, then they should have put a ring on it," Double Fine President Tim Schafer said. "Oh great, now Beyonce is going to sue me too."
No, Scenarios aren't ....Nevermind.
You're a troll. I'm done with trying to reason.
Groovy.
Originally posted by Kainis
Now you are being extremely forgiving to MJ, that like Erling Ellisen-- promised the sun, but dropped his pants and showed a moon.
I don't understand this at all. Why should people be angry at MJ? People knew EXACTLY what game they were getting before they pre-ordered/joined the betas. We all knew this was going to be an RVR game with PVE as an afterthought. There has been years of information, years of in depth videos and articles covering almost every aspect of the game, and for me at least, the game was exactly what I expected - a somewhat casual friendly, fast-paced PVP game with some extra features such as the Tome and PQs. Despite some lingering bugs and balance issues, almost everything in the game in the first two tiers has worked flawlessly for me. A month after Age of Conan's launch and I was still getting headaches from broken quests and missing content.
The game isen't for everyone, obviously. If you don't enjoy the graphics or the gameplay, then why try to ruin it for the people who do and bring up issues that are not relevant to them?
Waiting for Fallen Earth, World of Darkness, Old Republic, FFXIV
You just proved his original point. It's amazing how you people miss this shit. He obviously has mistaken "PQ's" for "Scenarios" and thinks they are one in the same. Now if you just go back and replace "PQ's" in all of his posts with "Scenarios" it makes sense. It's not like you haven't used the wrong term for something and confused a bunch of people. I just find it amazing that you didn't figure that out after his last post. I guess it's just because he is right, the fanbois will not listen and label anyone that isn't impressed by this game as a troll.
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"Fixed it. Because that wall of text attacked me, killed me and looted my body..."
-George "sniperg" Light
It's not the fact that people dislike the game, it's the fact that people come in here and make tl'dr posts about how bad the game is, and either say things that have been rehashed or just pull things up out of the blue (or talk about the game as if they know about it.)
And to be honest, if one side gets to be aggressive about their opinion, so can the other. Especially on the board dedicated to the game they play/want to play.
To that, I will whole heartedly agree. I don't mind people that like the game commenting on it, and I don't mind people that constructively bash it. What I am trying to understand is why, when given very valid and possibly constructive criticsm of WAR, are people being labled as trolls or fanboys of other games come here to ruin their sunshine? I find it odd, that many of the blinde fanboys from WAR, were some of the most staunchest of haters of AoC (read my first comments about MJ and EE to know my position about that game). Isn't that a bit like.... pot/ kettle?
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Tried- L2, Ryzom, WAR, DDO, PWI, Tab Rasa, Requiem, Champs, AA, JD, PWI, SUN, Dawntide
Played- SWG (pre-cu), AoC, VG, WoW, LoTRO,CoX, EQ2, DAOC, GW, PotBS, Aion, MO,APB, NASA, Fallen Earth, DCUO, Rift
Playing- EVE, Black Prophecy, TOR
Waiting for- Tera, Jumpgate Evo, WH40K, WWE, WOD, TSW
--
--
"Hey, if Activision liked it, then they should have put a ring on it," Double Fine President Tim Schafer said. "Oh great, now Beyonce is going to sue me too."
Well let look at your points.
wow 2.0 graphics. They are better than wow's, they are not omg, then agian i ahve already been in a 100+ vs 100+ in open beta and well if it was eleet graphics no computer would handle it (AFTER all it REALLY is an MMO , not an fps).
Many feel the game play is a bit sluggish (i personaly don't have a problem with it)
"Also they cannot claim to be an mmorpg, with nearly nonexistant pve content." - really? they have more pve content than wow had at release. I mean did you even play the game at all, it seems doubtful. Infact may people are saying there is no pvp content (because they just followed the pve arcs).
Anyway, there is plenty of pve content, because you do not know of it doesn't mean it is not there. You start in pve u can quest to 40 via pve , you can equip yourself via pve, end game pvp has pve built into it and visa versa. I mean you simply have no clue what this game has to offer. Its not about being a fanboi , its about noobs with no experience in the game stating things like " WAR has no pve " that makes blood shoot from my eyes because its simply not true. In the city captures after you push players out of the city it turns into a pve area which you have to fight some of the hardest pve bosses in the game ... and they are HARD , multi phased, objective based Of course you don't know much about war, but your passing judgment.
There are non pvp at all end game pvp encounters that are equally difficult. Of course that doesn't matter to you ... you know because your simply right devoid of any real experience or facts.
"tI's people like blind fanboys that cause games to come out the way they are."
What would you call yourself then honestly. I mean WAr plays, you don't lag to death, the combat is interactive and fast paced (try pvp or a mid-high level pq ). the PVp is multi lateral and has more than one type of pvp. I mean according to you war has no pve and its obvious at this point more effort and content is pve related in WAR than pvp (which is not a good thing, but it shows that you are the pot calling the kettle black when you address these so called "blind fanboys" ).
WAr may suck , but it will not be about anything you have stated if it does.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
To the OP.
LOL A troll calling himself objective and nonpartisan.
Everyone is entitle to his/her opinion, is the way people write that makes trolling or not.
Trolling for MMORPG.com is
* Posting excessive negative comments or baiting others to respond in a negative manner is considered trolling on the MMORPG.com forums.
For example: If there is one game that you did not enjoy, voicing your opinion is encouraged. Posting this opinion in every thread concerning that game to the point that it disrupts all other conversation is not tolerated.
After you giving yourself the title of nonpartisan you wrote things like:
"I have to question the War fanboys"
So you address to the "fanboys". Is like going into a church and screaming God doesnt exist... what do you expect order than baiting others in a negative manner? (trolling)
"Everything from WoW 2.0 graphics (yes they are slightly better than WoW's, but only because they use a higher rez tmap), to clunky gameplay."
After explicity saying you are talking to the fanbois, you call the graphics WoW 2.0... again... what do you expect? A civil discussion on the graphics? LOL (you are obviously trolling agian).
Then you said the "clunky gameply" without describing why you call it that way so you dont leave place to discussion. (again trolling)
"Also they cannot claim to be an mmorpg, with nearly nonexistant pve content. The absence of it, turns the great Warhammer, into Battlenet 2.0."
Here you are actually changing the definiton of MMORPG and/or saying the game is not an MMORPG... what point you use to support your statement: nonexistant pve content. Are you really waiting for a civilizated discussion. I think you are just baiting people.
Battlenet 2.0? Is that your point of discussion. You are not setting the discussion on how PvE is in the game... you already statement there is almost no PvE in game.
"Yes I know it's beta still, but you guys gave grief to AoC for the last several months, pointing out graphics, gameplay, and content as reasons why Funcom should be erased from history. Now you are being extremely forgiving to MJ, that like Erling Ellisen-- promised the sun, but dropped his pants and showed a moon."
Now you say that ALL WAR's fanbois bashed AoC? Is that what you are discussing now? Again looking for people to reply in a negative way.
"It's people like blind fanboys that cause games to come out the way they are."
Now, do you suddenly stop addressing to the Fanbois and are actually saying people is like blind fanbois? More trolling.
"People have valid concerns about Warhammer. Don't just dismiss them as trolls, because they don't agree with you."
Yes, they do. But the only thing I could try to understand you want to discuss is: WAR has nonexistant PvE. If so, you typed it in a very nice trolling way because you wrote a LOT that has nothing to prove of to explain your point.
You basically just said that as people are blind fanbois they will not see your point but WAR has almost no PvE. Nice way to start a discussion.
Then you posted again things like:
"If there are tonnes of lairs, dungeons, instances- why has rvr/ pvp become such a main selling point? Why haven't even the most rabid 'fanboys' promoted this as much as they have the other 'qualities'?"
if you address to the fanbois (and in this way) do you want to discuss that or troll. And what do you exactly want to discuss if you already said there almost no pve in war. That the proof of it is that RvR is a main feature and then PvE must not exist? Is that what you want to discuss? Imo, you are trolling again.
"Show me some smoke, and I will agree on the presence of fire."
This is a nice troll phrase. Why? Because no one has to "show you the smoke". Try the game and see for yourself. If you like the game, great... play it. If you dont like it, move to the next MMO. No, I am not answering like a fanatic. I am saying this: if you dont like a game, dont play it. I guess you live in one of the few countries with freedom, so you can play what you like and not what someone else tells you to play. Enjoy your freedom.
Posting the way you did is, imho, trolling. You didnt open any real discussion.
Now, maybe you will think I am trolling you. Maybe you are right. After all, I posted in your thread and I am only discussing if you are or not a troll.
You just proved his original point. It's amazing how you people miss this shit. He obviously has mistaken "PQ's" for "Scenarios" and thinks they are one in the same. Now if you just go back and replace "PQ's" in all of his posts with "Scenarios" it makes sense. It's not like you haven't used the wrong term for something and confused a bunch of people. I just find it amazing that you didn't figure that out after his last post. I guess it's just because he is right, the fanbois will not listen and label anyone that isn't impressed by this game as a troll.
I understood his post perfectly clear, and knew the difference between the two.
Which leads me to believe that he's just trying to piss off people here.
A lot of what he's said, makes him look very uninformed about the game, and then he says "I've been studying" warhammer, it shows that a) He has some learning disability, or b) He's a troll.
I went with b.
Groovy.
It's not the fact that people dislike the game, it's the fact that people come in here and make tl'dr posts about how bad the game is, and either say things that have been rehashed or just pull things up out of the blue (or talk about the game as if they know about it.)
And to be honest, if one side gets to be aggressive about their opinion, so can the other. Especially on the board dedicated to the game they play/want to play.
To that, I will whole heartedly agree. I don't mind people that like the game commenting on it, and I don't mind people that constructively bash it. What I am trying to understand is why, when given very valid and possibly constructive criticsm of WAR, are people being labled as trolls or fanboys of other games come here to ruin their sunshine? I find it odd, that many of the blinde fanboys from WAR, were some of the most staunchest of haters of AoC (read my first comments about MJ and EE to know my position about that game). Isn't that a bit like.... pot/ kettle?
Warhammer hasn't come out yet, and even when it does, it's still too early to declare it a failure/success.
From what I know, the CE and pre-orders are already doing well. It will be about a month after release before anyone can say anything.
Groovy.
You just proved his original point. It's amazing how you people miss this shit. He obviously has mistaken "PQ's" for "Scenarios" and thinks they are one in the same. Now if you just go back and replace "PQ's" in all of his posts with "Scenarios" it makes sense. It's not like you haven't used the wrong term for something and confused a bunch of people. I just find it amazing that you didn't figure that out after his last post. I guess it's just because he is right, the fanbois will not listen and label anyone that isn't impressed by this game as a troll.
I understood his post perfectly clear, and knew the difference between the two.
Which leads me to believe that he's just trying to piss off people here.
A lot of what he's said, makes him look very uninformed about the game, and then he says "I've been studying" warhammer, it shows that a) He has some learning disability, or b) He's a troll.
I went with b.
Thank you, for the explanation. You still proved him right and that's sad.
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"Fixed it. Because that wall of text attacked me, killed me and looted my body..."
-George "sniperg" Light
Now, for me, this proves you dont know about the game and you are trolling, or you are just trolling.