If you didn't like the way World of Warcraft played, you probably won't like this one.
If you liked World of Warcraft, but wish it had more PvP, than this is the game for you. It seems like WAR was made to siphon this particular part of the WoW fanbase away from Blizzard.
It's definately not as polished as World of Warcraft, and PvP combat is more about stacking effects and focus fire than using control and reacting to the enemy.
If two years ago Blizzard had decided to focus on World PvP instead of Arenas, we'd probably be all going "Warhammer who?" right about now.
This game is kind of lacking a certain MMORPG feel to it... probably because the PvE content is pretty much just filler for Scenario pops. Their World PvP solution in the low level tiers hasn't been very successful.
Their siege weapons in this game are just mega retarded too. Lol, definately not an idea that you should implement just to say "omg, siege weapons!".
The game is fun, and it's nice that it's not WoW; I just want a little more Action Jackson in my game. TCOS and CO, now there's a stew!
Jon, I loved your review. But I have one thing to point out about the way you represent it. You used the word "carebear". I don't hate the word but I think its very unprofessional to use words that put down other players playstyle that doesn't fit yours.
i think you may have missed him playing around. the entire section was from the point of view that he usually prefers pve, which traditionally is "carebear," but he was pleased to be enjoying pvp more than usual due to how it was delivered in WAR.
Yuppers. If you look at that section, which the magic of Control - C lets me paste below:
One thing to note though… If you’re a novice at PvP, don’t jump into the Open RvR servers. There is plenty of RvR action on the Core servers, and you don’t run the risk of getting ganked again and again by some high level clown looking for some kicks at your expense. On the other hand, if you’re one of those players who loves the thrill of being in danger at all times and enjoy the realism of not being artificially separated and restricted by level, the Open RvR servers are probably right up your alley. Who needs those carebears anyway?
You will see that I also called PvPers clowns looking for some kicks at your expense. It was kinda a little play on the way that both sides tend to see the other and was meant to highlight the fact that there were two different server types that might suit each case better.
I agree, temrs like "carebear" and "ganker" get thrown around a lot. That's really the point In the context of the paragraph (or even the whole article), I wasn't putting anyone down. I'm not a PvPer and I thought I was clear on that. I just think that the emotion pent up in those two terms is worth poking a bit of good natured fun at. Not unprofessional at all.
That's fine and dandy, but the use of the words is what I was getting at. It's about the same as making a review and using a word such as failcom in it, even if its out of good nature.
"I just think that the emotion pent up in those two terms is worth poking a bit of good natured fun at. Not unprofessional at all."
And this just proves what I mean. 'Good natured fun' to you, could very well mean the exact opposite for someone else. And since it's one of those things that's on the fence, as an "employee" of mmorpg.com, it should stay out of reviews. Put it this way, would you let any of your editors use the word Fanboi and make puns towards it in a review? I hope you wouldn't. Like I stated your review was great, but you really could of left that word out. Pun, poke or prod, you know it's not needed. Let the rest of your community do that.
I think the easiest thing to say about warhammer is:
You will either immediately like it, or immediately be turned off by it. There really isn't a middle ground. And while I think your article was unbiased, you failed to touch on the MOST important aspect of any PVP game...and that is the pace and enjoyment of the combat.
Combat in Warhammer is exceptionally slow, not just it takes more then 4 seconds to kill someone slow. We are talking that 6 people can be on a tank for over 45 seconds and it will generally not die. There is also a severe lack of CC, which makes running away and getting back to healers very easy.
I wish you had touched on the pace of the combat, as I think it is single handedly Warhammers biggest downfall. Another issue being the 1.2-1.3 second GLOBAL Cooldown that leaves you sitting there mashing the same button over and over again while a lame auto-attack hits for you during the downtime between casting abilitys.
I got to 20 in Warhammer, PvP'd a lot early/late levels and realized that the only good thing about the game was the PVP, and the PvP was so slow it almost took skill and reaction time completely out of the equation.
Those looking for fast paced skill based PVP should avoid this game. This is NOT the successor of DAoC.
I have also encountered an incredibly low number of bugs. Especially since beta ended and Early Access began. The level of polish on WAR is unprecedented when compared to other MMO's that I've played. WoW wasn't even this smooth at launch, and don't get me started on AoC!
Today I did encounter my only "game breaking" bug so far. I was level 12 and went into a cave under Blighted Isle to interact with something in there. I knew I'd get chickened, but didn't care. Unfortunately, some bug prevented me from being able to exit the cave. I couldn't use by Book of Recall because I was a chicken. Using /stuck failed because where it returned me to the game was deeper in the cave with only 1 second of countdown time remaining before I got chickened (and stuck) again. Not fun.
The reason I'm bringing this up is I realized that short of pure luck having a Destruction player happen upon me in that out of the way place and killing me, I'd have to petition a GM. At launch? Good luck! Even the best GM teams are overworked to the point of insanity at an MMO's launch, and this was prime time as well. But I had no choice. You can imagine my shock when I got a tell from a GM less than 5 minutes later! I have never, ever had a GM response so quickly.
Maybe they just have a huge number of GM's ready to help right now. Maybe it's a measure of how few serious bugs the game has, eliminating the need for GM's to provide damage control. Whatever the reason, this bodes very well for the game's future reputation and future.
I think the easiest thing to say about warhammer is:
You will either immediately like it, or immediately be turned off by it. There really isn't a middle ground. And while I think your article was unbiased, you failed to touch on the MOST important aspect of any PVP game...and that is the pace and enjoyment of the combat.
Combat in Warhammer is exceptionally slow, not just it takes more then 4 seconds to kill someone slow. We are talking that 6 people can be on a tank for over 45 seconds and it will generally not die. There is also a severe lack of CC, which makes running away and getting back to healers very easy.
I wish you had touched on the pace of the combat, as I think it is single handedly Warhammers biggest downfall. Another issue being the 1.2-1.3 second GLOBAL Cooldown that leaves you sitting there mashing the same button over and over again while a lame auto-attack hits for you during the downtime between casting abilitys. I got to 20 in Warhammer, PvP'd a lot early/late levels and realized that the only good thing about the game was the PVP, and the PvP was so slow it almost took skill and reaction time completely out of the equation.
Those looking for fast paced skill based PVP should avoid this game. This is NOT the successor of DAoC.
I wasnt able to get into the "open beta" but from the vids i've seen on the net your absolutely right on the pace of combat. I've seen a LOT of mashing 1 button every 2 seconds for a fireball in the vids.
I think the easiest thing to say about warhammer is:
You will either immediately like it, or immediately be turned off by it. There really isn't a middle ground. And while I think your article was unbiased, you failed to touch on the MOST important aspect of any PVP game...and that is the pace and enjoyment of the combat.
Combat in Warhammer is exceptionally slow, not just it takes more then 4 seconds to kill someone slow. We are talking that 6 people can be on a tank for over 45 seconds and it will generally not die. There is also a severe lack of CC, which makes running away and getting back to healers very easy.
I wish you had touched on the pace of the combat, as I think it is single handedly Warhammers biggest downfall. Another issue being the 1.2-1.3 second GLOBAL Cooldown that leaves you sitting there mashing the same button over and over again while a lame auto-attack hits for you during the downtime between casting abilitys. I got to 20 in Warhammer, PvP'd a lot early/late levels and realized that the only good thing about the game was the PVP, and the PvP was so slow it almost took skill and reaction time completely out of the equation.
Those looking for fast paced skill based PVP should avoid this game. This is NOT the successor of DAoC.
I don't get it how some people find combat "slow".
I play a Swordmaster (rank 11) and I can tell you I got my hands full with all the situational skill choices (parry buff for me or 40% speed debuff to target at 2nd combo stage i.e.) and all the while dealing with that pesky collision detection - either blocking a gazzilion of them from coming at my squishies or trying to land that killing blow on the goblin hiding behind the tanks.
PvP combat is mighty fine in this game. Way better than anything else I've tried out so far. It might seem slow paced because toons have more HP relative to damage than what is usual, but it gives combat a nice "chunky" and solid feel. I can almost taste the smell of burned metal as I block someone's attack with my shield.
In addition this more HP/damage thing gives much more leeway for group strategies since you won't get 1-2 shotted (unless you run into a BW at full combustion loking to burn it off somehow ). Usually you have enough time to react and adapt to a situation.
I find PvE combat a bit "meh" in comparison, probably because there is no CD there (i suppose it would be just asking for trouble with AI pathing), however there is nothing really wrong with it... it is just that the feel of PvP is so awesome.
I was a MMORPG fan when I first started playing DAoC in 2001 and then switched to SWG in 2005. I can't say for sure if I am a MMORPG fan anymore though, because community is just as much a feature of a MMORPG as PvP or Raiding. The community since WoW came out in almost every MMORPG I've played has been rude, anti-social, and disrespectful with small pockets of mature people. This is the exact opposite of how the community was before WoW. Your last paragraph said that you would recommend the game to fans of MMORPGs, but I cannot say for sure if I am a fan of MMORPGs anymore. I love the idea of building a character over a long period of time with other people online, but I absolutely hate what the MMORPG community has devolved to. I guess the question is: Is the WAR community like the DAoC and SWG community before WoW brought several million people into our games, or is the WAR community like WoW's?
I couldn't agree with you more. This is the main reason I'm not bothering with WAR, or a lot of other MMO's now for that matter anymore. They're full of the young teens born in the late 1980's and early 1990's, or the Beavis and Butthead generation as I like to call them. Not all in that generation are bad I know, but a majority of them do have issues on how to act socially in a MMO.
Originally posted by attentivevow I think the easiest thing to say about warhammer is:
You will either immediately like it, or immediately be turned off by it. There really isn't a middle ground. And while I think your article was unbiased, you failed to touch on the MOST important aspect of any PVP game...and that is the pace and enjoyment of the combat.
Combat in Warhammer is exceptionally slow, not just it takes more then 4 seconds to kill someone slow. We are talking that 6 people can be on a tank for over 45 seconds and it will generally not die. There is also a severe lack of CC, which makes running away and getting back to healers very easy.
I wish you had touched on the pace of the combat, as I think it is single handedly Warhammers biggest downfall. Another issue being the 1.2-1.3 second GLOBAL Cooldown that leaves you sitting there mashing the same button over and over again while a lame auto-attack hits for you during the downtime between casting abilitys. I got to 20 in Warhammer, PvP'd a lot early/late levels and realized that the only good thing about the game was the PVP, and the PvP was so slow it almost took skill and reaction time completely out of the equation.
Those looking for fast paced skill based PVP should avoid this game. This is NOT the successor of DAoC.
I have to disagree with you on the CC bit. Yes, there is CC, no, not every class has it.
One really neat thing about WAR is the class dynamic. How every class needs to work together, to be efficient. No, you cannot have a whole group of shamans like WoW and win. You just can't.
The CC in WAR comes from the "ranged DPS" classes, who's role it is to support the tanks, protect the healers, and guard things in general. Therefore, they are equipped with a lot of immobilizing abilities, as well as physical knockbacks, in order to keep players away from the healers, and push them back into the battle.
The CC in WAR isn't as you would see in WoW, where you can completely cyclone chain a player because you suck. You actually have to use your abilities wisely, because if you don't, and your CD is up, your healer dies, and well... there goes the great team you had setup to protect your keep.
Again, it's a subtle balance in WAR, and once you really get it, every aspect is there, it's just spread out in a careful way to make everyone a necessity, and no one useless in any situation.
If you didn't like the way World of Warcraft played, you probably won't like this one. If you liked World of Warcraft, but wish it had more PvP, than this is the game for you. It seems like WAR was made to siphon this particular part of the WoW fanbase away from Blizzard. It's definately not as polished as World of Warcraft, and PvP combat is more about stacking effects and focus fire than using control and reacting to the enemy. If two years ago Blizzard had decided to focus on World PvP instead of Arenas, we'd probably be all going "Warhammer who?" right about now. This game is kind of lacking a certain MMORPG feel to it... probably because the PvE content is pretty much just filler for Scenario pops. Their World PvP solution in the low level tiers hasn't been very successful. Their siege weapons in this game are just mega retarded too. Lol, definately not an idea that you should implement just to say "omg, siege weapons!". The game is fun, and it's nice that it's not WoW; I just want a little more Action Jackson in my game. TCOS and CO, now there's a stew!
hmmm how about instance grinding in war ?
wow was fun for me till lvl 40 or so. i don't like raiding pve instances over and over again.
and i'm not a big fan of the bg's in wow.
however i still remember the good times in daoc (bg1 and the open rvr are some of my best mmorpg's memories of all time)
Interesting review from Jon, although I'm guessing that degree of 'fence-sitting' is required to prevent accusations from some of the more paranoid forum users regarding favouritism or even accepting cash to promote some titles!! (I'm not suggesting or condoning either! ).
I, like many I would guess have preordered, and reading this has helped build the excitement while waiting for it to turn up on my doorstep - and I didn't have the benefit of beta to give me a taste of the game before now.
Proud Master CH - Sorry, Proud FORMER Master CH... my toon was untimely converted into something more Star Warsy
I was a MMORPG fan when I first started playing DAoC in 2001 and then switched to SWG in 2005. I can't say for sure if I am a MMORPG fan anymore though, because community is just as much a feature of a MMORPG as PvP or Raiding. The community since WoW came out in almost every MMORPG I've played has been rude, anti-social, and disrespectful with small pockets of mature people. This is the exact opposite of how the community was before WoW. Your last paragraph said that you would recommend the game to fans of MMORPGs, but I cannot say for sure if I am a fan of MMORPGs anymore. I love the idea of building a character over a long period of time with other people online, but I absolutely hate what the MMORPG community has devolved to. I guess the question is: Is the WAR community like the DAoC and SWG community before WoW brought several million people into our games, or is the WAR community like WoW's?
quite honestly, the community in any online game is what you make it... if you're looking for a bunch of spoiled brats, that IS what you'll see. but, there are quite a number of mature guilds in every mmo i've played.
stay away from the "silliness" in official forums, and play with your guild.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
I was a MMORPG fan when I first started playing DAoC in 2001 and then switched to SWG in 2005. I can't say for sure if I am a MMORPG fan anymore though, because community is just as much a feature of a MMORPG as PvP or Raiding. The community since WoW came out in almost every MMORPG I've played has been rude, anti-social, and disrespectful with small pockets of mature people. This is the exact opposite of how the community was before WoW. Your last paragraph said that you would recommend the game to fans of MMORPGs, but I cannot say for sure if I am a fan of MMORPGs anymore. I love the idea of building a character over a long period of time with other people online, but I absolutely hate what the MMORPG community has devolved to. I guess the question is: Is the WAR community like the DAoC and SWG community before WoW brought several million people into our games, or is the WAR community like WoW's?
I couldn't agree with you more. This is the main reason I'm not bothering with WAR, or a lot of other MMO's now for that matter anymore. They're full of the young teens born in the late 1980's and early 1990's, or the Beavis and Butthead generation as I like to call them. Not all in that generation are bad I know, but a majority of them do have issues on how to act socially in a MMO.
this forum is full of teens. yet, you post here and your name is "IAmMmo"...
again, any game's community is what you make it and will probably be filled with what you're looking for.
the problem is that gaming companies want to make money with quick fixes vs. content.
the quick fix is to make the game to where you really do end up needing to do AT LEAST occasional teaming. then you get that social-interaction thing going on, that will get people to continue playing "after the game becomes boring and repetitive".
problem with that is you have a lot of people who already have friends and family and aren't really interested in making 100+ new *friends* in an online game JUST to be capable of playing thru all the content.
having said that... there are mature communities in pretty much every game. heck, there's all types in all games. i know this one guy who plays guild wars -- pvE exclusively, he never pvps.
the old timers guild is in most all games, they're a mature multi-game guild.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Interesting review from Jon, although I'm guessing that degree of 'fence-sitting' is required to prevent accusations from some of the more paranoid forum users regarding favouritism or even accepting cash to promote some titles!! (I'm not suggesting or condoning either! ). I, like many I would guess have preordered, and reading this has helped build the excitement while waiting for it to turn up on my doorstep - and I didn't have the benefit of beta to give me a taste of the game before now.
I don't think there was any fence-sitting at all. I was pretty clear in which direction I personally come down on. For my money, I'm a fan of the game. I play it on my off hours. I really like it. It IS, however, possible to really like the game, but also recognize that there are elements of it that some gamers aren't going to like. I'm not a big fan of presenting previews (people calling it a review are just... wrong) as a "you must share my opinion or you will die a horrible death".
Warhammer isn't a perfect game by any means. There's lots about it that isn't going to appeal to some people. Some people just aren't me.
Excellent. It's great to have a nice chunk of questions answered in one, very informative, and clear-headed article. Finally someone who sees the game for what it is ment to be, not a pretty pony ride in the fantasy forest, but a blood ridden war between destruction and order.
I have been following this game for a long time now, and have sifted through peoples posts about how good it is, how horrible it is, and just plain how neutral it is. It all really depends on your own personal experience, your own perception on the game.
People are waiting for that perfect game to release (myself included), but really, what is a perfect game? One without grind, one that will offer a constant flow of content (expansions?), a large amount of jobs to pick from, tons of skills, I mean your really only asking for -more- of what is already there, so it's not exactly anything new.
And gind is slowly buy surely disappearing from MMORPGS. Games now offer many quests that offer a large EXP reward. FFXI for example (played for 4 years) has just turned the table, and released a nice update to allow the EXP experience to be more fufilling, and quests no longer offer stingy items that end up on the AH for 1k gil anyway.
From what I read, WAR will be an exciting game. Its going to launch in a couple of hours, and the servers will begin to fill up. With more people on the servers, there will be more chatting. More people asking questions, and more people helping. It will be a race to the level cap, and the majority of players in that race will more than likely have everything to gripe about, for they probably flew by a nice chunk of content.
The first couple of months will be a little rocky, no doubt. Though this is the best time for the developers to sort out any bugs that they didn't catch in beta, improve on the balance of the game, improve on the fun-factor, and thus releasing patches, and expansions.
It certainly helped me make my decision even clearer, I for one will give it a try being a Warhammer fan.
I was a MMORPG fan when I first started playing DAoC in 2001 and then switched to SWG in 2005. I can't say for sure if I am a MMORPG fan anymore though, because community is just as much a feature of a MMORPG as PvP or Raiding. The community since WoW came out in almost every MMORPG I've played has been rude, anti-social, and disrespectful with small pockets of mature people. This is the exact opposite of how the community was before WoW. Your last paragraph said that you would recommend the game to fans of MMORPGs, but I cannot say for sure if I am a fan of MMORPGs anymore. I love the idea of building a character over a long period of time with other people online, but I absolutely hate what the MMORPG community has devolved to. I guess the question is: Is the WAR community like the DAoC and SWG community before WoW brought several million people into our games, or is the WAR community like WoW's?
I couldn't agree with you more. This is the main reason I'm not bothering with WAR, or a lot of other MMO's now for that matter anymore. They're full of the young teens born in the late 1980's and early 1990's, or the Beavis and Butthead generation as I like to call them. Not all in that generation are bad I know, but a majority of them do have issues on how to act socially in a MMO.
Yeah, I know I am over-generalizing here, but there is a lot of truth in what I am saying. It's weird how MMORPG "seem" to attract the same type of people in every game. There could have been mostly teenagers playing MMORPGs before WoW came out, but you'd never know by talking to them. I felt like I was around people just like me.
MMORPG's w/ Max level characters: DAoC, SWG, & WoW
Currently Playing: WAR Preferred Playstyle: Roleplay/adventurous, in a sandbox game.
Jon a pretty good review and it is refreshing to see an opinion from your point of view. So many professional writers for game reviews these days over hype games.
I wrote my first blog on this site about warhammer and with some of the same points.
I would recommend the game to players that have never really got into the PVP thing. It is not as fast as WOW which to me is a good thing. Collision detection is a great thing.
During my time in many PVP games, nothing pisses me off more then seeing folks one shotted. That makes no sense to me. To be honest I do not think Mythic made this game to directly compete and kill WOW. The game is a blast and well worth my money.
For you game players that never tried PVP come on down and try it. In this game you probably like it. There are no overpowered classes. Some will disagree but, even the tanks can be dropped fairly quickly with focuse fire. If you intend to try a zerg fest against an organized group of players you will loose.
But thats what make Warhammer great is even solo you can click on your avatar and get into groups including guild groups. I have never been booted from a guild group. When your done you leave with your spoils and continue to do your own thing on the PVE side.
I was a MMORPG fan when I first started playing DAoC in 2001 and then switched to SWG in 2005. I can't say for sure if I am a MMORPG fan anymore though, because community is just as much a feature of a MMORPG as PvP or Raiding. The community since WoW came out in almost every MMORPG I've played has been rude, anti-social, and disrespectful with small pockets of mature people. This is the exact opposite of how the community was before WoW. Your last paragraph said that you would recommend the game to fans of MMORPGs, but I cannot say for sure if I am a fan of MMORPGs anymore. I love the idea of building a character over a long period of time with other people online, but I absolutely hate what the MMORPG community has devolved to. I guess the question is: Is the WAR community like the DAoC and SWG community before WoW brought several million people into our games, or is the WAR community like WoW's?
quite honestly, the community in any online game is what you make it... if you're looking for a bunch of spoiled brats, that IS what you'll see. but, there are quite a number of mature guilds in every mmo i've played.
stay away from the "silliness" in official forums, and play with your guild.
That isn't entirely true. That is true if the game doesn't have a general chat channel, that people can abuse and it is true if you pluck out your eyes, so you cannot see the naked elves and stupid emotes people do towards you to piss you off. I've had the same attitude since I started playing MMORPGs 7 years ago. I go in the game hoping for the best; I reach out to people, trying to get them involved in groups and good conversation; and I try to keep things mature.
Sure I can turn off general chat, emotes, and just ignore the immature members of the community. Sure I can join a guild earlier than I would normally, with a bunch of people I haven't even played with yet. However, my point is that before WoW brought milllions of players into the genre, I didn't have to turn off general chat or join a guild. Developers also didn't have to make people group to stop being anti-social, because there were plenty of people who liked to group. Don't try to tell me that grouping up for an objective and then leaving the group immediately after isn't the norm now, or I'd have to call you blind.
The genre is just different now and I have adapted, as it sounds like you have. But there comes a time when you wonder why you adapt to immaturity, instead of just leaving the genre completely. Especially when your a person who is approaching 30, is married, and has a child in 1st grade. How many people do you know in real life, that are adults, who say they hang out with 12-15 year olds? Well, that is essentially what you are doing in MMORPGs and it kind of makes me feel dirty, lol.
I'm buying WAR today, and I will do my best to ignore the bad crowd. Hopefully the gameplay is good enough to hook me, so that I can start reaching out to the mature crowd and join a guild.
MMORPG's w/ Max level characters: DAoC, SWG, & WoW
Currently Playing: WAR Preferred Playstyle: Roleplay/adventurous, in a sandbox game.
Oh, for heaven's sake. The article was aptly titled as both a Preview (NOT a REVIEW) and was informative for prospective players. The author proceeded to do exactly what he intended to do: ask the sorts of questions any one of us might ask before buying this (or any) game.
I thought the article was just fine; it made it very clear to me (as a PvE-loving "carebear", I guess -- lol) that Warhammer is definitely not the game for me.
Jon, I loved your review. But I have one thing to point out about the way you represent it. You used the word "carebear". I don't hate the word but I think its very unprofessional to use words that put down other players playstyle that doesn't fit yours.
i think you may have missed him playing around. the entire section was from the point of view that he usually prefers pve, which traditionally is "carebear," but he was pleased to be enjoying pvp more than usual due to how it was delivered in WAR.
Yuppers. If you look at that section, which the magic of Control - C lets me paste below:
One thing to note though… If you’re a novice at PvP, don’t jump into the Open RvR servers. There is plenty of RvR action on the Core servers, and you don’t run the risk of getting ganked again and again by some high level clown looking for some kicks at your expense. On the other hand, if you’re one of those players who loves the thrill of being in danger at all times and enjoy the realism of not being artificially separated and restricted by level, the Open RvR servers are probably right up your alley. Who needs those carebears anyway?
You will see that I also called PvPers clowns looking for some kicks at your expense. It was kinda a little play on the way that both sides tend to see the other and was meant to highlight the fact that there were two different server types that might suit each case better.
I agree, temrs like "carebear" and "ganker" get thrown around a lot. That's really the point In the context of the paragraph (or even the whole article), I wasn't putting anyone down. I'm not a PvPer and I thought I was clear on that. I just think that the emotion pent up in those two terms is worth poking a bit of good natured fun at. Not unprofessional at all.
I thought you using those terms was a bit out of order (he didnt just say order, did he) but seeing your resonse, I see your point. Never the less, those terms need to go away. Only noobs say noob anymore.
When I said i had "time", i meant virtual time, i got no RL "time" for you.
I am soooo on the wall with this game. I have tried SO many mmo's and most of the time end up playing through just the free month(or not even that) and then canceling. They just dont end up holding up to pre cu SWG how fun that was or how good WoW is(and yes WoW has it's own problems too but that's another post). I've googled for videos of WAR and and quite frankly the game looks pretty ugly to me. Not much better than WoW which is 4 years old(yes I'm a graphics whore but I will overlook it somewhat if the game is compelling enough). I just dont want to spend the 50.00 AGAIN for another mmo like I just did with AOC that I only played a couple of weeks before getting bored with it and quitting. However there are so many good things being said about WAR and I LOVE the enthusiasim of Mark Jacobs every time he talks about WAR(there's a guy who REALLY loves his job!) that I also DO want to run out and get it tomorrow.
I just dont know /shrug
Only one thign to do I guess, go to an internet cafe or games store and ask someone there if you can try it for a bit.
I don't intend to play War, just not my style. I like pvp, but Mythic's version of pvp just bores me to death, after you retake a town or castle for the nth time it becomes meaningless as far as I am concerned and there is nothing else to do at end game. The game is just too Wow like without the end game raiding.
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If you didn't like the way World of Warcraft played, you probably won't like this one.
If you liked World of Warcraft, but wish it had more PvP, than this is the game for you. It seems like WAR was made to siphon this particular part of the WoW fanbase away from Blizzard.
It's definately not as polished as World of Warcraft, and PvP combat is more about stacking effects and focus fire than using control and reacting to the enemy.
If two years ago Blizzard had decided to focus on World PvP instead of Arenas, we'd probably be all going "Warhammer who?" right about now.
This game is kind of lacking a certain MMORPG feel to it... probably because the PvE content is pretty much just filler for Scenario pops. Their World PvP solution in the low level tiers hasn't been very successful.
Their siege weapons in this game are just mega retarded too. Lol, definately not an idea that you should implement just to say "omg, siege weapons!".
The game is fun, and it's nice that it's not WoW; I just want a little more Action Jackson in my game. TCOS and CO, now there's a stew!
i think you may have missed him playing around. the entire section was from the point of view that he usually prefers pve, which traditionally is "carebear," but he was pleased to be enjoying pvp more than usual due to how it was delivered in WAR.
Yuppers. If you look at that section, which the magic of Control - C lets me paste below:
One thing to note though… If you’re a novice at PvP, don’t jump into the Open RvR servers. There is plenty of RvR action on the Core servers, and you don’t run the risk of getting ganked again and again by some high level clown looking for some kicks at your expense. On the other hand, if you’re one of those players who loves the thrill of being in danger at all times and enjoy the realism of not being artificially separated and restricted by level, the Open RvR servers are probably right up your alley. Who needs those carebears anyway?
You will see that I also called PvPers clowns looking for some kicks at your expense. It was kinda a little play on the way that both sides tend to see the other and was meant to highlight the fact that there were two different server types that might suit each case better.
I agree, temrs like "carebear" and "ganker" get thrown around a lot. That's really the point
In the context of the paragraph (or even the whole article), I wasn't putting anyone down. I'm not a PvPer and I thought I was clear on that. I just think that the emotion pent up in those two terms is worth poking a bit of good natured fun at. Not unprofessional at all.
That's fine and dandy, but the use of the words is what I was getting at. It's about the same as making a review and using a word such as failcom in it, even if its out of good nature.
"I just think that the emotion pent up in those two terms is worth poking a bit of good natured fun at. Not unprofessional at all."
And this just proves what I mean. 'Good natured fun' to you, could very well mean the exact opposite for someone else. And since it's one of those things that's on the fence, as an "employee" of mmorpg.com, it should stay out of reviews. Put it this way, would you let any of your editors use the word Fanboi and make puns towards it in a review? I hope you wouldn't. Like I stated your review was great, but you really could of left that word out. Pun, poke or prod, you know it's not needed. Let the rest of your community do that.
I think the easiest thing to say about warhammer is:
You will either immediately like it, or immediately be turned off by it. There really isn't a middle ground. And while I think your article was unbiased, you failed to touch on the MOST important aspect of any PVP game...and that is the pace and enjoyment of the combat.
Combat in Warhammer is exceptionally slow, not just it takes more then 4 seconds to kill someone slow. We are talking that 6 people can be on a tank for over 45 seconds and it will generally not die. There is also a severe lack of CC, which makes running away and getting back to healers very easy.
I wish you had touched on the pace of the combat, as I think it is single handedly Warhammers biggest downfall. Another issue being the 1.2-1.3 second GLOBAL Cooldown that leaves you sitting there mashing the same button over and over again while a lame auto-attack hits for you during the downtime between casting abilitys.
I got to 20 in Warhammer, PvP'd a lot early/late levels and realized that the only good thing about the game was the PVP, and the PvP was so slow it almost took skill and reaction time completely out of the equation.
Those looking for fast paced skill based PVP should avoid this game. This is NOT the successor of DAoC.
I have also encountered an incredibly low number of bugs. Especially since beta ended and Early Access began. The level of polish on WAR is unprecedented when compared to other MMO's that I've played. WoW wasn't even this smooth at launch, and don't get me started on AoC!
Today I did encounter my only "game breaking" bug so far. I was level 12 and went into a cave under Blighted Isle to interact with something in there. I knew I'd get chickened, but didn't care. Unfortunately, some bug prevented me from being able to exit the cave. I couldn't use by Book of Recall because I was a chicken. Using /stuck failed because where it returned me to the game was deeper in the cave with only 1 second of countdown time remaining before I got chickened (and stuck) again. Not fun.
The reason I'm bringing this up is I realized that short of pure luck having a Destruction player happen upon me in that out of the way place and killing me, I'd have to petition a GM. At launch? Good luck! Even the best GM teams are overworked to the point of insanity at an MMO's launch, and this was prime time as well. But I had no choice. You can imagine my shock when I got a tell from a GM less than 5 minutes later! I have never, ever had a GM response so quickly.
Maybe they just have a huge number of GM's ready to help right now. Maybe it's a measure of how few serious bugs the game has, eliminating the need for GM's to provide damage control. Whatever the reason, this bodes very well for the game's future reputation and future.
I wasnt able to get into the "open beta" but from the vids i've seen on the net your absolutely right on the pace of combat. I've seen a LOT of mashing 1 button every 2 seconds for a fireball in the vids.
Mess of a 'review'.
I don't get it how some people find combat "slow".
I play a Swordmaster (rank 11) and I can tell you I got my hands full with all the situational skill choices (parry buff for me or 40% speed debuff to target at 2nd combo stage i.e.) and all the while dealing with that pesky collision detection - either blocking a gazzilion of them from coming at my squishies or trying to land that killing blow on the goblin hiding behind the tanks.
PvP combat is mighty fine in this game. Way better than anything else I've tried out so far. It might seem slow paced because toons have more HP relative to damage than what is usual, but it gives combat a nice "chunky" and solid feel. I can almost taste the smell of burned metal as I block someone's attack with my shield.
In addition this more HP/damage thing gives much more leeway for group strategies since you won't get 1-2 shotted (unless you run into a BW at full combustion loking to burn it off somehow
). Usually you have enough time to react and adapt to a situation.
I find PvE combat a bit "meh" in comparison, probably because there is no CD there (i suppose it would be just asking for trouble with AI pathing), however there is nothing really wrong with it... it is just that the feel of PvP is so awesome.
I couldn't agree with you more. This is the main reason I'm not bothering with WAR, or a lot of other MMO's now for that matter anymore. They're full of the young teens born in the late 1980's and early 1990's, or the Beavis and Butthead generation as I like to call them. Not all in that generation are bad I know, but a majority of them do have issues on how to act socially in a MMO.
I have to disagree with you on the CC bit. Yes, there is CC, no, not every class has it.
One really neat thing about WAR is the class dynamic. How every class needs to work together, to be efficient. No, you cannot have a whole group of shamans like WoW and win. You just can't.
The CC in WAR comes from the "ranged DPS" classes, who's role it is to support the tanks, protect the healers, and guard things in general. Therefore, they are equipped with a lot of immobilizing abilities, as well as physical knockbacks, in order to keep players away from the healers, and push them back into the battle.
The CC in WAR isn't as you would see in WoW, where you can completely cyclone chain a player because you suck. You actually have to use your abilities wisely, because if you don't, and your CD is up, your healer dies, and well... there goes the great team you had setup to protect your keep.
Again, it's a subtle balance in WAR, and once you really get it, every aspect is there, it's just spread out in a careful way to make everyone a necessity, and no one useless in any situation.
hmmm how about instance grinding in war ?
wow was fun for me till lvl 40 or so. i don't like raiding pve instances over and over again.
and i'm not a big fan of the bg's in wow.
however i still remember the good times in daoc (bg1 and the open rvr are some of my best mmorpg's memories of all time)
do you think i can have fun in war?
i don't mind slow combat
Game is mega fun! Buy it
Interesting review from Jon, although I'm guessing that degree of 'fence-sitting' is required to prevent accusations from some of the more paranoid forum users regarding favouritism or even accepting cash to promote some titles!! (I'm not suggesting or condoning either!
).
I, like many I would guess have preordered, and reading this has helped build the excitement while waiting for it to turn up on my doorstep - and I didn't have the benefit of beta to give me a taste of the game before now.
Proud Master CH -
Sorry,
Proud FORMER Master CH...
my toon was untimely converted into something more Star Warsy
quite honestly, the community in any online game is what you make it... if you're looking for a bunch of spoiled brats, that IS what you'll see. but, there are quite a number of mature guilds in every mmo i've played.
stay away from the "silliness" in official forums, and play with your guild.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
I couldn't agree with you more. This is the main reason I'm not bothering with WAR, or a lot of other MMO's now for that matter anymore. They're full of the young teens born in the late 1980's and early 1990's, or the Beavis and Butthead generation as I like to call them. Not all in that generation are bad I know, but a majority of them do have issues on how to act socially in a MMO.
this forum is full of teens. yet, you post here and your name is "IAmMmo"...
again, any game's community is what you make it and will probably be filled with what you're looking for.
the problem is that gaming companies want to make money with quick fixes vs. content.
the quick fix is to make the game to where you really do end up needing to do AT LEAST occasional teaming. then you get that social-interaction thing going on, that will get people to continue playing "after the game becomes boring and repetitive".
problem with that is you have a lot of people who already have friends and family and aren't really interested in making 100+ new *friends* in an online game JUST to be capable of playing thru all the content.
having said that... there are mature communities in pretty much every game. heck, there's all types in all games. i know this one guy who plays guild wars -- pvE exclusively, he never pvps.
the old timers guild is in most all games, they're a mature multi-game guild.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
I don't think there was any fence-sitting at all. I was pretty clear in which direction I personally come down on. For my money, I'm a fan of the game. I play it on my off hours. I really like it. It IS, however, possible to really like the game, but also recognize that there are elements of it that some gamers aren't going to like. I'm not a big fan of presenting previews (people calling it a review are just... wrong) as a "you must share my opinion or you will die a horrible death".
Warhammer isn't a perfect game by any means. There's lots about it that isn't going to appeal to some people. Some people just aren't me.
Cheers,
Jon Wood
Managing Editor
MMORPG.com
Excellent. It's great to have a nice chunk of questions answered in one, very informative, and clear-headed article. Finally someone who sees the game for what it is ment to be, not a pretty pony ride in the fantasy forest, but a blood ridden war between destruction and order.
I have been following this game for a long time now, and have sifted through peoples posts about how good it is, how horrible it is, and just plain how neutral it is. It all really depends on your own personal experience, your own perception on the game.
People are waiting for that perfect game to release (myself included), but really, what is a perfect game? One without grind, one that will offer a constant flow of content (expansions?), a large amount of jobs to pick from, tons of skills, I mean your really only asking for -more- of what is already there, so it's not exactly anything new.
And gind is slowly buy surely disappearing from MMORPGS. Games now offer many quests that offer a large EXP reward. FFXI for example (played for 4 years) has just turned the table, and released a nice update to allow the EXP experience to be more fufilling, and quests no longer offer stingy items that end up on the AH for 1k gil anyway.
From what I read, WAR will be an exciting game. Its going to launch in a couple of hours, and the servers will begin to fill up. With more people on the servers, there will be more chatting. More people asking questions, and more people helping. It will be a race to the level cap, and the majority of players in that race will more than likely have everything to gripe about, for they probably flew by a nice chunk of content.
The first couple of months will be a little rocky, no doubt. Though this is the best time for the developers to sort out any bugs that they didn't catch in beta, improve on the balance of the game, improve on the fun-factor, and thus releasing patches, and expansions.
It certainly helped me make my decision even clearer, I for one will give it a try being a Warhammer fan.
Thanks again for the mature article
See you in Net-Slum.
I echo AlienShirt, except the "Play Order." Destruction is more fun, come on you know its fun to be the bad guy.
I couldn't agree with you more. This is the main reason I'm not bothering with WAR, or a lot of other MMO's now for that matter anymore. They're full of the young teens born in the late 1980's and early 1990's, or the Beavis and Butthead generation as I like to call them. Not all in that generation are bad I know, but a majority of them do have issues on how to act socially in a MMO.
Yeah, I know I am over-generalizing here, but there is a lot of truth in what I am saying. It's weird how MMORPG "seem" to attract the same type of people in every game. There could have been mostly teenagers playing MMORPGs before WoW came out, but you'd never know by talking to them. I felt like I was around people just like me.
MMORPG's w/ Max level characters: DAoC, SWG, & WoW
Currently Playing: WAR
Preferred Playstyle: Roleplay/adventurous, in a sandbox game.
Jon a pretty good review and it is refreshing to see an opinion from your point of view. So many professional writers for game reviews these days over hype games.
I wrote my first blog on this site about warhammer and with some of the same points.
I would recommend the game to players that have never really got into the PVP thing. It is not as fast as WOW which to me is a good thing. Collision detection is a great thing.
During my time in many PVP games, nothing pisses me off more then seeing folks one shotted. That makes no sense to me. To be honest I do not think Mythic made this game to directly compete and kill WOW. The game is a blast and well worth my money.
For you game players that never tried PVP come on down and try it. In this game you probably like it. There are no overpowered classes. Some will disagree but, even the tanks can be dropped fairly quickly with focuse fire. If you intend to try a zerg fest against an organized group of players you will loose.
But thats what make Warhammer great is even solo you can click on your avatar and get into groups including guild groups. I have never been booted from a guild group. When your done you leave with your spoils and continue to do your own thing on the PVE side.
quite honestly, the community in any online game is what you make it... if you're looking for a bunch of spoiled brats, that IS what you'll see. but, there are quite a number of mature guilds in every mmo i've played.
stay away from the "silliness" in official forums, and play with your guild.
That isn't entirely true. That is true if the game doesn't have a general chat channel, that people can abuse and it is true if you pluck out your eyes, so you cannot see the naked elves and stupid emotes people do towards you to piss you off. I've had the same attitude since I started playing MMORPGs 7 years ago. I go in the game hoping for the best; I reach out to people, trying to get them involved in groups and good conversation; and I try to keep things mature.
Sure I can turn off general chat, emotes, and just ignore the immature members of the community. Sure I can join a guild earlier than I would normally, with a bunch of people I haven't even played with yet. However, my point is that before WoW brought milllions of players into the genre, I didn't have to turn off general chat or join a guild. Developers also didn't have to make people group to stop being anti-social, because there were plenty of people who liked to group. Don't try to tell me that grouping up for an objective and then leaving the group immediately after isn't the norm now, or I'd have to call you blind.
The genre is just different now and I have adapted, as it sounds like you have. But there comes a time when you wonder why you adapt to immaturity, instead of just leaving the genre completely. Especially when your a person who is approaching 30, is married, and has a child in 1st grade. How many people do you know in real life, that are adults, who say they hang out with 12-15 year olds? Well, that is essentially what you are doing in MMORPGs and it kind of makes me feel dirty, lol.
I'm buying WAR today, and I will do my best to ignore the bad crowd. Hopefully the gameplay is good enough to hook me, so that I can start reaching out to the mature crowd and join a guild.
MMORPG's w/ Max level characters: DAoC, SWG, & WoW
Currently Playing: WAR
Preferred Playstyle: Roleplay/adventurous, in a sandbox game.
Oh, for heaven's sake. The article was aptly titled as both a Preview (NOT a REVIEW) and was informative for prospective players. The author proceeded to do exactly what he intended to do: ask the sorts of questions any one of us might ask before buying this (or any) game.
I thought the article was just fine; it made it very clear to me (as a PvE-loving "carebear", I guess -- lol) that Warhammer is definitely not the game for me.
I'm impressed.
That's probably one of the most un-biased and truthful reviews/previews of a MMO that I've ever read.
WAR isn't the MMO for everyone. Look at the feature list on the box, if that looks appealing to you, you will probably enjoy this game.
If the feature list on the box doesn't appeal to you, don't buy the game.
And please don't write 198,237,192,739,812,713 threads on forums like MMORPG.com saying how much WAR sucks etc. etc.
Mythic themselves said they were not designing this game for everyone.
If you aren't included, quietly let this pass you by and wait for X game in peace.
i think you may have missed him playing around. the entire section was from the point of view that he usually prefers pve, which traditionally is "carebear," but he was pleased to be enjoying pvp more than usual due to how it was delivered in WAR.
Yuppers. If you look at that section, which the magic of Control - C lets me paste below:
One thing to note though… If you’re a novice at PvP, don’t jump into the Open RvR servers. There is plenty of RvR action on the Core servers, and you don’t run the risk of getting ganked again and again by some high level clown looking for some kicks at your expense. On the other hand, if you’re one of those players who loves the thrill of being in danger at all times and enjoy the realism of not being artificially separated and restricted by level, the Open RvR servers are probably right up your alley. Who needs those carebears anyway?
You will see that I also called PvPers clowns looking for some kicks at your expense. It was kinda a little play on the way that both sides tend to see the other and was meant to highlight the fact that there were two different server types that might suit each case better.
I agree, temrs like "carebear" and "ganker" get thrown around a lot. That's really the point
In the context of the paragraph (or even the whole article), I wasn't putting anyone down. I'm not a PvPer and I thought I was clear on that. I just think that the emotion pent up in those two terms is worth poking a bit of good natured fun at. Not unprofessional at all.
I thought you using those terms was a bit out of order (he didnt just say order, did he) but seeing your resonse, I see your point. Never the less, those terms need to go away. Only noobs say noob anymore.
When I said i had "time", i meant virtual time, i got no RL "time" for you.
Only one thign to do I guess, go to an internet cafe or games store and ask someone there if you can try it for a bit.
I have to agree, a very well done article.
I don't intend to play War, just not my style. I like pvp, but Mythic's version of pvp just bores me to death, after you retake a town or castle for the nth time it becomes meaningless as far as I am concerned and there is nothing else to do at end game. The game is just too Wow like without the end game raiding.
I hope those that play enjoy it.