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Darkfall's current status is: CLOSED BETA
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First, I do not blindly believe that it will be everything that it has been hyped to be. I hope it is, but that is not faith. However, I have to disagree that secrecy means flaws that can not be corrected. Many times, people want the unveiling of something to be a big ceremony. This has happened at every birthday party I have ever been to. Also, Aventurine has poneyed up and pulled back the curtain a lot. If it is information you seek, search out the dev journals. If it is demonstration of functionality, then from what I understand, you need look no farther than the trailer. The community called for a demonstration of the combat system. This was the motivation for the focus of the trailer. Anyone saying that they focused on combat because they had nothing else is ignoring the fact that combat was what was asked for.
Also, if Aventurine delivers only a portion of their numerous feature list, they will still have an extremely successful niche game.
Finally, you really need to stop blindly beleiving every thing that the vapour trolls spew at you!
I accept that you don't seem to be a 'blind follower' of Darkfall, and perhaps it was unfair of me to quote your response whilst leveling these accusations against the vocal minority of the DF fan base, but I'm sure you in turn accept that these people do exist (and have been infinitely more successful at bringing their beloved game into disrepute than any amount of vapour trolling). Also I must be clear that I have myself been one of the 'vapour trolls' to which you refer, when up until a couple of months ago it appeared extremely unlikely that this title would ever see the light of day. These days I still firmly believe that the overwhelming likelihood is that Darkfall will unfortunately take the Broken Promises crown from its distinguished predecessors Age of Conan, and Dark & Light before that, but again that's just my opinion.
As far as Aventurine having 'pulled back the curtain' I have to strongly disagree with you. The dev journals you refer to are just a long list of promised features from Tasos mixed in with platitudes that they're making fantastic progress and meeting all their internal targets. It's not information that can dispel any doubt in the game's current state, since it comes from the very source which has been called into question to begin with. And as for that unfortunate trailer, in my opinion it revealed far more problems with the game than appealing features. It demonstrated that the graphics and animations were dated and ugly, that the 'world' was simplistic and looked like a football field with a few trees stuck down here and there, that the combat is one-dimensional (toons rush at each other, stand toe-to-toe hacking with one or two attacks until one drops, rinse, repeat), that there are glaring holes in immersion (disappearing 'destructible' walls) and an FPS-style missile/cannon system that will require a never-before-seen level of tech performance to work properly without the familiar bugbear of connection lag when used on such a massive scale.
It's pretty obvious to all but the most self-deluding zealot fans that Aventurine will not be able to deliver all of the features they promise at launch (or even in the forseeable future). The question now becomes whether they can even deliver enough of those features to satisfy their niche market - old-school UO fans who don't really care how ugly their game looks or even plays, so long as they have the freedom to play it the way they want to. I think anyone who expects more from Darkfall will be disappointed if/when the much-vaunted free-for-all Open Beta finally materializes.
*****************************
I have nothing clever to say.
Never read such nonsense in the post above in my life. Sorry the reason you hide something is not to inspire curiosity, it is because you have something to hide. If that is not obvious to you, you have severe issues in real life, you are a walking target for every scammer out there.
It is a really good question why they have not shown this game at any of the shows, remember Leipzig was just in August and would have been an excellent vehicle to introduce the game. It makes no sense they held a working client back, there is just no justifiable reason, especially since they have a publisher now. So it is certainly suspiscious.
A lot of us have been looking forward to this game for a long time, but we at least try to keep an open mind about what the game really will have in it when it comes out. With the small staff they have, it is literally impossible for all the features listed on the website to be included in a complete working state.
It still can be a great game on release if what they do have works well. So let's angle for that instead of attempting to prove said feature will be in at release. At present we still know noone that has actually played the game so the possibility still exists that this game is still more hype than reality. Hopefully that game has more substance than that and the beta will start soon.
Pace yourself friend,
First if you call the entire post nonsens, then adress the entire post in your reply.
I never said it IS why they never show anything or its why they are so secrative about DFO, I gave you a plausable reason as to why (and it is utilized by marketing companies).
And then again, there is the little fact of the 140,000 registered forum users, who also signed up for the beta, if the strategy I am suggesting does not work, where did they come from? Since as you state, Aventurine does not engage itself in PR?
About me having severe issues in life, I would spair myself from your rant on that, if you wouldn't mind? I am fine thank you.
How again will Aventurine scam me of my money? since I get to try before I by?
Why would it be so crazy to not go to shows, and not hype a game, just becasue its what every other mmo-developer are doing? Is it totaly unthinkable that they are streatching EvE's tactics, start small and grow steady? instead of WAR or Conan start BIG and steadly decline? (not that I think WAR will decline)
And YES if you bothered to read my post, I too agreeed to the fact that they will most likely not have all features in at launch. But the game-braking ones perhaps? Just because Conan did not have it, doesent mean that every other MMO developer out there must be as utterly stupid, right?
I for one saw the features that I am looking forward to in that gameplay video:
FPS combat
Naval combat
City seiging
and more..
So when you aggree with Greek_Matt, you agree with that DFO will
-Have the odds heavily stacked against being a successful product?
-Most probably DFO will not deliver any of the promised features?
-DFO will probably not even have a modest fanbase of under 100k?
-Aventurine is lying, and will scam us of money?
-Aventurine is hiding a glaring flaw, and will release with that?
-DFO will not be released in 2008 (now this could actually be debatable)
-Aventurine will NOT have the capacity to let everyone who like, try the game for free?
-DFO is NOT attempting to break the stagnant designs of MMO’s today?
-Aventurine has not shared anything of value with its community?
-The trailer did not show any of the anticipated features?
-Graphics > Gameplay? (please answer the question under the picture in my first post for me)
-One-dimensional combat system?
-Simplistic world (have a look at the screens)?
-Glaring holes in immersion because they prioritize latency?
-We will all be very disappointed when open beta materializes?
This makes me wonder why you follow this game.
No one can say all those will actually come true, no one can say none of them will. However it seems I am more of an optimist than you are, my beer glass is always half full, not half empty.
*****************************
I have nothing clever to say.
And YES if you bothered to read my post, I too agreeed to the fact that they will most likely not have all features in at launch. But the game-braking ones perhaps? Just because Conan did not have it, doesent mean that every other MMO developer out there must be as utterly stupid, right?
I for one saw the features that I am looking forward to in that gameplay video:
FPS combat
Naval combat
City seiging
and more..
So when you aggree with Greek_Matt, you agree with that DFO will
-Have the odds heavily stacked against being a successful product?
-Most probably DFO will not deliver any of the promised features?
-DFO will probably not even have a modest fanbase of under 100k?
-Aventurine is lying, and will scam us of money?
-Aventurine is hiding a glaring flaw, and will release with that?
-DFO will not be released in 2008 (now this could actually be debatable)
-Aventurine will NOT have the capacity to let everyone who like, try the game for free?
-DFO is NOT attempting to break the stagnant designs of MMO’s today?
-Aventurine has not shared anything of value with its community?
-The trailer did not show any of the anticipated features?
-Graphics > Gameplay? (please answer the question under the picture in my first post for me)
-One-dimensional combat system?
-Simplistic world (have a look at the screens)?
-Glaring holes in immersion because they prioritize latency?
-We will all be very disappointed when open beta materializes?
This makes me wonder why you follow this game.
No one can say all those will actually come true, no one can say none of them will. However it seems I am more of an optimist than you are, my beer glass is always half full, not half empty.
And it seems the new Darkfall fanboi mantra is: "I am not blind, the game will not be released with all features, but..."
That's been the difference between Darkfall's followers and the detractors all along - that "glass is half full" willingness to compromise so much in the hope that at least some of the original promised elements will trickle down. Ironically it is these very selective optimists who are the first to leap on the hate bandwagon for existing MMO's, heaping derision and acrimony in generous helpings. This hypocrisy is the fuel that has helped to ignite such strong feeling amongst those who are less willing to accept promises without evidence.
I don't really have the time to address all the issues you brought up in your most recent posts nileq, but I'll take you up on a couple.
1. I did not say that the long dev cycle was at once too long to wait yet also too short to implement all the features. I do believe that the dev cycle was too long for a project of this magnitude with a dev team of this size and relative inexperience, and it really shows. Technology has moved much faster than their coding speed, so that visually the game is already showing its age badly.
2. Despite your fondest hopes, this game will never be more than a niche game. The graphics are far too dated and ugly to attract the FPS crowd, while the hugely punitive consequence system will repel all but the most hardcore risk-lover (especially once the ganking elite of early adopters cement their power and drive off all casual gamers). Sure it sounds great on paper, but once your average struggling newb has been rolled for the hundredth time by the roving band of L0Lz0rZing lifers they will switch off and walk away.
3. No, people only hide behind a wall of secrecy to build suspense and anticipation IF this anticipation is generally positive. For a long time now Darkfall has been the joke of the MMO industry, and the fact that they have made NO credible attempts to dispel this image is a clear indication that they are unable to do so. Believe me, your average 'forum troll' is not a bitter angry hatemonger with a mind full of revenge - rather they are average gamers who are shocked and amused by the seemingly deranged community they stumble upon and feel like stirring up the hornet's nest. As hardcore PvP proponents, I would have thought Darkfall fans more than anyone else would be able to understand this psychology.
4. I'm sorry, perhaps I wasn't clear enough. The graphics of Darkfall that I have witnessed, being the much-touted Actual Gameplay Footage released recently by Aventurine, are ugly. Allow me to illustrate, using actual screenshots I took from the .wmv I downloaded from Aventurine's site:
Some crappy terrain (football field with random trees dropped in):
Some crappy low-poly modeling:
Some crappy animation:
Some crappy special effects:
Some crappy UI:
And some crappy disappearing buildings:
Hope that's a little clearer to understand.
And it seems the new Darkfall fanboi mantra is: "I am not blind, the game will not be released with all features, but..."
-No, that is the answer to the troll mantra
I don't really have the time to address all the issues you brought up in your most recent posts nileq, but I'll take you up on a couple.
-Well, how convinient, you get to choose what to defend in your post?
Oh, yes.
Those ingame pictures you show there is WHAT IT TAKES (and I wont bring up the fact that they have stated that the video are on medium settings.. and all that, because even if that gameplay video where on the highest setting, I am after GAMEPLAY not graphics) (and I am sure your screenies have no loss what so ever.. no sireeee, none.. )
and by the way, how do you use a screenshot to show crappy animations?? (although you don't need to convince me, they are, only hope they make them better)
You are smacking down on the graphics of a game that have THE BALLS to show an ingame, non-cgi scripted, non rendered movie, BEFORE even the beta starts. Did you see the conan animations in beta?
Those polygons that you point your finger at IS WHAT IT TAKES to have huge battles, don't you get that? You could even argue that that is proof of one of the features you say you haven't seen yet, the feature of having massive battles with many players on screen at one time. One feature that you do not beleive in in your first post. Could you not?
Did you really think that you would be able to have Conan poly-count and still play with lots of players on screen? huh? I bet you did.
IF Aventurine is NOT lying and the screenshot I provided you with earlier actually ARE an ingame screenshot would you still consider it bad graphics? because if you do, you need glasses, you might not like the art, but that has nothing to do with the graphics, that boils down to personal taste.
About the long devcykle, I mearly stated that since you confessed to have been a vapor troll, then you would probably have a history of saying that, since it was the trolls master-line.
You now confesses that you where (probably) wrong about DFO never comming out, why are you right this time then? why should we lissten to you trying to hack down on a game the best you can?
Once you boil down the content of your fist two posts here the troll in you shows off quite clearly wouldn't you say?
All you tried to say in a nice wrapping was this:
-Have the odds heavily stacked against being a successful product
-Most probably DFO will not deliver any of the promised features
-DFO will probably not even have a modest fanbase of under 100k
-Aventurine is lying, and will scam us of money
-Aventurine is hiding a glaring flaw, and will release with that
-DFO will not be released in 2008 (now this could actually be debatable)
-Aventurine will NOT have the capacity to let everyone who like, try the game for free
-DFO is NOT attempting to break the stagnant designs of MMO’s today
-Aventurine has not shared anything of value with its community
-The trailer did not show any of the anticipated features
-Graphics > Gameplay? (please answer the question under the picture in my first post for me)
-One-dimensional combat system
-Simplistic world (have a look at the screens)
-Glaring holes in immersion because they prioritize latency
-We will all be very disappointed when open beta materializes
And you are no troll? huh?
Every argument you put forth points to you being a burned conan player. Keep your fithy fingers off DFO, let us have ONE Sandbox, plenty of mind-numbing themparkgames out there for you to choose from.
There is only one way to battle a troll, and that is buy using the fanboi lingo, I did that, and I twarted your little trolling attempt, so keep up the damage control.
I see you
*****************************
I have nothing clever to say.
And it seems the new Darkfall fanboi mantra is: "I am not blind, the game will may not be released with all features, but..."
That's been the difference between Darkfall's followers and the detractors all along - that "glass is half full" willingness to compromise so much in the hope that at least some of the original promised elements will trickle down. Ironically it is these very selective optimists who are the first to leap on the hate bandwagon for existing MMO's, heaping derision and acrimony in generous helpings. This hypocrisy is the fuel that has helped to ignite such strong feeling amongst those who are less willing to accept promises without evidence.
Please, bring proof to the table, this sounds like slander.
I don't really have the time to address all the issues you brought up in your most recent posts nileq, but I'll take you up on a couple.
1. I did not say that the long dev cycle was at once too long to wait yet also too short to implement all the features. I do believe that the dev cycle was too long for a project of this magnitude with a dev team of this size and relative inexperience, and it really shows. Technology has moved much faster than their coding speed, so that visually the game is already showing its age badly.
It was, but then they did a revision of the graphics. The current graphics are fine to many people, especially within the niche that Aventurine is targeting.
2. Despite your fondest hopes, this game will never be more than a niche game. The graphics are far too dated and ugly to attract the FPS crowd, while the hugely punitive consequence system will repel all but the most hardcore risk-lover (especially once the ganking elite of early adopters cement their power and drive off all casual gamers). Sure it sounds great on paper, but once your average struggling newb has been rolled for the hundredth time by the roving band of L0Lz0rZing lifers they will switch off and walk away.
If the newbs were stuck in the high-gank beginning areas (which is standard in the industry but not true of DF) then I would agree with you here. However, they will not be so limited and once away from the racial cities the size of Agon will protect them somewhat.
3. No, people only hide behind a wall of secrecy to build suspense and anticipation IF this anticipation is generally positive. For a long time now Darkfall has been the joke of the MMO industry, and the fact that they have made NO credible attempts to dispel this image is a clear indication that they are unable to do so.
Given that the DF forums are extremely active, I'm goning to say that the curiosity angle is working for them. Here, an example of an ad campaign hinged on curiosity, NowWhat.com ads never say what they are selling.
4. Believe me, your average 'forum troll' is not a bitter angry hatemonger with a mind full of revenge - rather they are average gamers who are shocked and amused by the seemingly deranged community they stumble upon and feel like stirring up the hornet's nest. As hardcore PvP proponents, I would have thought Darkfall fans more than anyone else would be able to understand this psychology.
You mean ignorant fools, who think that anything different from the norm is crazy!
4. 5. I'm sorry, perhaps I wasn't clear enough. The graphics of Darkfall that I have witnessed, being the much-touted Actual Gameplay Footage released recently by Aventurine, are ugly. Allow me to illustrate, using actual screenshots I took from the .wmv I downloaded from Aventurine's site:
Why not just post the link? Or the video link?
*Pictures deleted to save space*I am a skeptical supporter of DF. I am not a fanboi nor a troll. I seek the truth in every discussion, and I am truly sorry if I mistakenly state a fallacy.
The day was september 11th, 2001. I had just been sent home from work after the attack on the WTC because I was working in a skyscraper in downtown chicago at the time. I stopped at ebgames on the way home and picked up anarchy online, which had recently been released. As I waited for it to install I surfed a little on the net, and came across an article on darkfall. I was totally blown away by what I read and I thought "sweet. I'll play Anarchy online until darkfall comes out, then I'll switch to that." Well I haven't been playing AO for the last 7 years, but I have been anticipating darkfall for the whole time. This is good news.
"It's better to burn out, than fade away!"
Arguing with a troll is like masturbating with a cheese slicer; slightly amusing, but mostly PAINFUL.
*****************************
I have nothing clever to say.
And it seems the new Darkfall fanboi mantra is: "I am not blind, the game will may not be released with all features, but..."
That's been the difference between Darkfall's followers and the detractors all along - that "glass is half full" willingness to compromise so much in the hope that at least some of the original promised elements will trickle down. Ironically it is these very selective optimists who are the first to leap on the hate bandwagon for existing MMO's, heaping derision and acrimony in generous helpings. This hypocrisy is the fuel that has helped to ignite such strong feeling amongst those who are less willing to accept promises without evidence.
Please, bring proof to the table, this sounds like slander.
Obviously you haven't been reading these forums very carefully. Here are some links:
• Once Aragon100 gets rolling...
• feyrband sticks it to "Korean grindfests"...
• that classic AoC thread...
I don't really have the time to address all the issues you brought up in your most recent posts nileq, but I'll take you up on a couple.
1. I did not say that the long dev cycle was at once too long to wait yet also too short to implement all the features. I do believe that the dev cycle was too long for a project of this magnitude with a dev team of this size and relative inexperience, and it really shows. Technology has moved much faster than their coding speed, so that visually the game is already showing its age badly.
It was, but then they did a revision of the graphics. The current graphics are fine to many people, especially within the niche that Aventurine is targeting.
I think it's more correct to say that the graphics are 'fine' only within the niche that Aventurine is targeting.
2. Despite your fondest hopes, this game will never be more than a niche game. The graphics are far too dated and ugly to attract the FPS crowd, while the hugely punitive consequence system will repel all but the most hardcore risk-lover (especially once the ganking elite of early adopters cement their power and drive off all casual gamers). Sure it sounds great on paper, but once your average struggling newb has been rolled for the hundredth time by the roving band of L0Lz0rZing lifers they will switch off and walk away.
If the newbs were stuck in the high-gank beginning areas (which is standard in the industry but not true of DF) then I would agree with you here. However, they will not be so limited and once away from the racial cities the size of Agon will protect them somewhat.
So your solution to the problem is to force people to find an empty place to play by themselves to avoid the inevitable ganking? Not exactly very Massively or Multiplayer is it?
3. No, people only hide behind a wall of secrecy to build suspense and anticipation IF this anticipation is generally positive. For a long time now Darkfall has been the joke of the MMO industry, and the fact that they have made NO credible attempts to dispel this image is a clear indication that they are unable to do so.
Given that the DF forums are extremely active, I'm goning to say that the curiosity angle is working for them. Here, an example of an ad campaign hinged on curiosity, NowWhat.com ads never say what they are selling.
It isn't an "ad campaign" though is it? It's the complete absence of any kind of campaign. People are curious because the Darkfall fan community have been so tirelessly zealous in pushing the (supposed) fantastic features the game promises, albeit with a lack of convincing evidence. How many of those people will continue to be 'curious' once more concrete facts are known remains to be seen.
4. Believe me, your average 'forum troll' is not a bitter angry hatemonger with a mind full of revenge - rather they are average gamers who are shocked and amused by the seemingly deranged community they stumble upon and feel like stirring up the hornet's nest. As hardcore PvP proponents, I would have thought Darkfall fans more than anyone else would be able to understand this psychology.
You mean ignorant fools, who think that anything different from the norm is crazy!
No. I don't.
4. 5. I'm sorry, perhaps I wasn't clear enough. The graphics of Darkfall that I have witnessed, being the much-touted Actual Gameplay Footage released recently by Aventurine, are ugly. Allow me to illustrate, using actual screenshots I took from the .wmv I downloaded from Aventurine's site:
Why not just post the link? Or the video link?
Because many people won't have the patience or desire to sit through that garbage again (or even for the first time), and nor should they have to. Others will demand that I demonstrate specific instances, and that linking the whole video is too generalistic. By linking individual images that clearly illustrated my points I overcame both these issues. But thanks for asking.
*Pictures deleted to save space******************************
I have nothing clever to say.
It would be unnecessary to create an even larger wall of text by responding to your individual points and slander attempts. To summarize...
• Just because you disagree with my opinion, and are obviously getting angry as a result of it, does not make me a troll. Perhaps you should find a definition for yourself.
• Just because I played Age of Conan and enjoyed myself some of the time does not mean I'm its biggest fan, nor that I cannot see its many shortcomings. Funcom made a development decision that swung their game to one extreme - high quality graphics at the expense of Massive Multiplayer gameplay. Aventurine is the polar opposite - sacrificing visual appeal to allow for potentially large numbers. I don't think either extreme is particularly satisfactory.
• I do realise that I'm in the Darkfall discussion forums. I'm here discussing Darkfall. Is that so difficult for you to grasp? Do you realise you're not in the Darkfall Fan Club forum?
• I have not claimed that my opinions are fact, quite the opposite. Perhaps you skipped over that in your fury. Any evidence I posted was just that: evidence. Links to threads on other forums and images taken from the Darkfall trailer are certainly not my opinion.
• I believe the reason Aventurine didn't record the trailer on "High Quality" (subjectively speaking) settings is either because this feature either doesn't exist, or is not sufficiently completed, or causes too many performance problems they don't want you to see. Or maybe it's just another clever marketing ploy designed to pleasantly surprise you in the Beta. Yeah, that's probably it...
• I'm glad to hear that, despite your angry tirade, you (and presumably many other hardcore Darkfall fans) are beginning to show some more realistic expectations of how (and when) this game will release. It can only serve to soften the blow of disappointment.
• I'm sorry you find this discussion so painful. Why do you continue with it? Do you believe you're somehow saving the world (or Darkfall) by doing so?
Just to make it clear:
“Sadly for Darkfall fans, having ugly low-poly graphics (and clunky animation and and a UI out of the 80's) does not automatically indicate that somehow the gameplay will be miraculously fantastic. All it really is evidence of is the huge limitations of being such a small dev company trying to take on such a huge project.”
-Is it now? how exactly?
“The simple reality is that when someone has a fantastic product that does exactly what they're promising it does (as Tasos has claimed numerous times) they have no legitimate reason to hide it.”
-This you present as a fact, and yet it nothing but your opinion.
The wiki definition of troll:
"An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial and irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room, with the intention of provoking other users into an emotional response[1] or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion."
You also come off as wiki's "Concern troll"
"A concern troll is a false flag pseudonym created by a user whose actual point of view is opposed to the one that the user's sockpuppet claims to hold. The concern troll posts in web forums devoted to its declared point of view and attempts to sway the group's actions or opinions while claiming to share their goals, but with professed "concerns". The goal is to sow fear, uncertainty and doubt within the group.[13]"
Right here when you made this statement:
"But that doesn't mean that I'm actually hoping Darkfall will crash and burn - though the game doesn't appeal to me personally for a number of reasons (and no, I'm not a carebear), if it were to manage to launch even semi-successfully and retain just a modest fan base (sub-100K) it would send a positive message to other indie developers out there that it is possible to break the mould and achieve a respectable success in a niche market rather than trying to please everyone. Given the sorry, stagnant state of recent MMO releases this could only be a good thing."
Then carried on with this:
Where are your evidence to back this up:
-Have the odds heavily stacked against being a successful product?
-Most probably DFO will not deliver any of the promised features?
-DFO will probably not even have a modest fanbase of under 100k?
-Aventurine is lying, and will scam us of money?
-Aventurine is hiding a glaring flaw, and will release with that?
-DFO will not be released in 2008 (now this could actually be debatable)
-Aventurine will NOT have the capacity to let everyone who like, try the game for free?
-DFO is NOT attempting to break the stagnant designs of MMO’s today?
-Aventurine has not shared anything of value with its community?
-The trailer did not show any of the anticipated features?
-Graphics > Gameplay? (please answer the question under the picture in my first post for me)
-One-dimensional combat system?
-Simplistic world (have a look at the screens)?
-Glaring holes in immersion because they prioritize latency?
-We will all be very disappointed when open beta materializes?
I also took the time to look at your previous post history.
Troll evidence 1
Troll evidence 2
Troll evidence 3 here you actually admit to it..
4
5
6
really I ccould go on and on and on.. but I think I will just report you.
This was painfull but somone had to do it.
Gonna let you go now Greek_Matt,
*****************************
I have nothing clever to say.
Just to make it clear:
“Sadly for Darkfall fans, having ugly low-poly graphics (and clunky animation and and a UI out of the 80's) does not automatically indicate that somehow the gameplay will be miraculously fantastic. All it really is evidence of is the huge limitations of being such a small dev company trying to take on such a huge project.”
-Is it now? how exactly?
Because if they were a larger or more experienced dev team with more resources they could afford to implement both gameplay and modern graphical features, rather than have to chose between the two. Art assets are a huge part of the budget cost in building an MMO (any game in fact) so it's not surprising Aventurine was forced to cut costs here.
“The simple reality is that when someone has a fantastic product that does exactly what they're promising it does (as Tasos has claimed numerous times) they have no legitimate reason to hide it.”
-This you present as a fact, and yet it nothing but your opinion.
No, it's a fact. Feel free to point me to one successful product launch where the developer/creator did not attempt to show their product in the best possible light beforehand, to maximize their potential sales. If this is Aventurine's best (and I believe that it is) it's pretty uninspiring.
The wiki definition of troll:
"An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial and irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room, with the intention of provoking other users into an emotional response[1] or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion."
If my points weren't controversial we wouldn't be having a discussion, we'd all be sitting around in a big circle-jerk congratulating Aventurine on a job well done. But they were neither "irrelevant" nor "off topic"... and hence not trolling. Read before you quote.
You also come off as wiki's "Concern troll"
"A concern troll is a false flag pseudonym created by a user whose actual point of view is opposed to the one that the user's sockpuppet claims to hold. The concern troll posts in web forums devoted to its declared point of view and attempts to sway the group's actions or opinions while claiming to share their goals, but with professed "concerns". The goal is to sow fear, uncertainty and doubt within the group.[13]"
Right here when you made this statement:
"But that doesn't mean that I'm actually hoping Darkfall will crash and burn - though the game doesn't appeal to me personally for a number of reasons (and no, I'm not a carebear), if it were to manage to launch even semi-successfully and retain just a modest fan base (sub-100K) it would send a positive message to other indie developers out there that it is possible to break the mould and achieve a respectable success in a niche market rather than trying to please everyone. Given the sorry, stagnant state of recent MMO releases this could only be a good thing."
Again, read before you quote. I'm not using a false/secondary account, and I don't imagine anyone would believe for a moment that I am a Darkfall fan (I clearly stated the opposite) sowing the seeds of dissent. I said that the (relative) success of this game would have positive effects, nothing more. And I went on to ay that I'm not sure even this will happen. Your attempts to pigeonhole my opinion are becoming ridiculous.
Then carried on with this:
Where are your evidence to back this up:
-Have the odds heavily stacked against being a successful product?
-Most probably DFO will not deliver any of the promised features?
-DFO will probably not even have a modest fanbase of under 100k?
-Aventurine is lying, and will scam us of money?
-Aventurine is hiding a glaring flaw, and will release with that?
-DFO will not be released in 2008 (now this could actually be debatable)
-Aventurine will NOT have the capacity to let everyone who like, try the game for free?
-DFO is NOT attempting to break the stagnant designs of MMO’s today?
-Aventurine has not shared anything of value with its community?
-The trailer did not show any of the anticipated features?
-Graphics > Gameplay? (please answer the question under the picture in my first post for me)
-One-dimensional combat system?
-Simplistic world (have a look at the screens)?
-Glaring holes in immersion because they prioritize latency?
-We will all be very disappointed when open beta materializes?
This is all largely pointless argument. You're asking me to provide evidence of something that doesn't yet exist, which is of course impossible. As for the odds being stacked against Darkfall's success, you want me to reiterate things that have been said a hundred times before. Very briefly then, Aventurine is a small company with little experience attempting a hugely demanding project, they have spent many years developing and redeveloping this project in an attempt to catch up with ever-increasing technical and artistic standards, they have released little or no substantial evidence to back their repeated claims as to the promised features of their product, and no credible witness has ever witnessed even a part of this game actually being played. All these factors together do NOT build a very encouraging picture, and thus if I were a betting man I would say that yes, the odds DO seem to be against it releasing successfully.
It's still painful, but somone's got to do it.
I'll just manage for teh time being.
Well perhaps Tasos will award you an in-game medal for your heroic, albeit misguided efforts.
I also took the time to look at your previous post history.
Troll evidence 1
Troll evidence 2
Troll evidence 3 here you actually admit to it..
4
5
6
really I ccould go on and on and on.. but I think I will just report you.
This was painfull but somone had to do it.
Gonna let you go now Greek_Matt,
And you did so after I began replying to you (you sneaky lil' devil). I'm glad you enjoyed reading my previous posts, I certainly enjoyed writing them. I did say earlier in this thread that I have been guilty of Darkfall trolling in the past, if you had bothered to read it... and here I thought you were hanging on my every word.
I do not, however, feel that I have been anything but reasonable in my discussion here. My opinion differs from yours, sure, but I've been a lot more civil than you have. Report away... I'll still manage to sleep at night I suspect.
Just to make it clear:
“Sadly for Darkfall fans, having ugly low-poly graphics (and clunky animation and and a UI out of the 80's) does not automatically indicate that somehow the gameplay will be miraculously fantastic. All it really is evidence of is the huge limitations of being such a small dev company trying to take on such a huge project.”
-Is it now? how exactly?
Because if they were a larger or more experienced dev team with more resources they could afford to implement both gameplay and modern graphical features, rather than have to chose between the two. Art assets are a huge part of the budget cost in building an MMO (any game in fact) so it's not surprising Aventurine was forced to cut costs here.
No, you have to eventually compromise between graphics and gameplay. This can not be fixed by throwing money at it. As technology improves, this becomes less of an issue, but the issue is still there at this time.
“The simple reality is that when someone has a fantastic product that does exactly what they're promising it does (as Tasos has claimed numerous times) they have no legitimate reason to hide it.”
-This you present as a fact, and yet it nothing but your opinion.
No, it's a fact. Feel free to point me to one successful product launch where the developer/creator did not attempt to show their product in the best possible light beforehand, to maximize their potential sales. If this is Aventurine's best (and I believe that it is) it's pretty uninspiring.
Advertising is actually a rather modern idea. Everything used to sell based on word of mouth alone. And you know what? Back then, if you had a good product it sold, if you did not then it failed. Throwing money at advertising to trick people into buying things by using psychological tricks is unneccessary if you have a quality product.
The wiki definition of troll:
"An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial and irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room, with the intention of provoking other users into an emotional response[1] or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion."
If my points weren't controversial we wouldn't be having a discussion, we'd all be sitting around in a big circle-jerk congratulating Aventurine on a job well done. But they were neither "irrelevant" nor "off topic"... and hence not trolling. Read before you quote.
Ah... but what, pray tell, is your intent? That is the important part.
You also come off as wiki's "Concern troll"
"A concern troll is a false flag pseudonym created by a user whose actual point of view is opposed to the one that the user's sockpuppet claims to hold. The concern troll posts in web forums devoted to its declared point of view and attempts to sway the group's actions or opinions while claiming to share their goals, but with professed "concerns". The goal is to sow fear, uncertainty and doubt within the group.[13]"
Right here when you made this statement:
"But that doesn't mean that I'm actually hoping Darkfall will crash and burn - though the game doesn't appeal to me personally for a number of reasons (and no, I'm not a carebear), if it were to manage to launch even semi-successfully and retain just a modest fan base (sub-100K) it would send a positive message to other indie developers out there that it is possible to break the mould and achieve a respectable success in a niche market rather than trying to please everyone. Given the sorry, stagnant state of recent MMO releases this could only be a good thing."
Again, read before you quote. I'm not using a false/secondary account, and I don't imagine anyone would believe for a moment that I am a Darkfall fan (I clearly stated the opposite) sowing the seeds of dissent. I said that the (relative) success of this game would have positive effects, nothing more. And I went on to ay that I'm not sure even this will happen. Your attempts to pigeonhole my opinion are becoming ridiculous.
I admit that this argument is valid. That said, you are walking a very fine line.
Then carried on with this:
Where are your evidence to back this up:
-Have the odds heavily stacked against being a successful product?
-Most probably DFO will not deliver any of the promised features?
-DFO will probably not even have a modest fanbase of under 100k?
-Aventurine is lying, and will scam us of money?
-Aventurine is hiding a glaring flaw, and will release with that?
-DFO will not be released in 2008 (now this could actually be debatable)
-Aventurine will NOT have the capacity to let everyone who like, try the game for free?
-DFO is NOT attempting to break the stagnant designs of MMO’s today?
-Aventurine has not shared anything of value with its community?
-The trailer did not show any of the anticipated features?
-Graphics > Gameplay? (please answer the question under the picture in my first post for me)
-One-dimensional combat system?
-Simplistic world (have a look at the screens)?
-Glaring holes in immersion because they prioritize latency?
-We will all be very disappointed when open beta materializes?
This is all largely pointless argument. You're asking me to provide evidence of something that doesn't yet exist, which is of course impossible. As for the odds being stacked against Darkfall's success, you want me to reiterate things that have been said a hundred times before. Very briefly then, Aventurine is a small company with little experience attempting a hugely demanding project, they have spent many years developing and redeveloping this project in an attempt to catch up with ever-increasing technical and artistic standards, they have released little or no substantial evidence to back their repeated claims as to the promised features of their product, and no credible witness has ever witnessed even a part of this game actually being played. All these factors together do NOT build a very encouraging picture, and thus if I were a betting man I would say that yes, the odds DO seem to be against it releasing successfully.
What, to you, constitutes a credible witness? Yellowbeards visit really does seem to be valid.
It's still painful, but somone's got to do it.
I'll just manage for teh time being.
Well perhaps Tasos will award you an in-game medal for your heroic, albeit misguided efforts.
Lets make this a true debate:
I am a skeptical supporter of DF. I am not a fanboi nor a troll. I seek the truth in every discussion, and I am truly sorry if I mistakenly state a fallacy.
This thread is epic.
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
do you people really feel the need to keep quoting the same wall of text over and over and over? jebus.
When so many points are made that need to be individualy addressed, yes.
I am a skeptical supporter of DF. I am not a fanboi nor a troll. I seek the truth in every discussion, and I am truly sorry if I mistakenly state a fallacy.
Sorry guys but Im not going to believe this game is coming out until it goes gold.
If it does i'll give it a try.
Played : WOW, LOTRO, COH/COV, EQ2, SWG, and WAR.
Playing EVE Online and AOC.
Wtg for SW:TOR and WOD
hmmm...from reading some parts of this...AOC or Warhammer or WOW employees are trolling in here...theya re basically trying to flare up every bit wat DFO is trying to achieve ....instead of jsut leaving of this forum space with constructive comments but rather hell loads of Flame baits..taking advantage of the situation like cunning market players ...trying to De-hype it as much as they could.
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
Just to make it clear:
“Sadly for Darkfall fans, having ugly low-poly graphics (and clunky animation and and a UI out of the 80's) does not automatically indicate that somehow the gameplay will be miraculously fantastic. All it really is evidence of is the huge limitations of being such a small dev company trying to take on such a huge project.”
-Is it now? how exactly?
Because if they were a larger or more experienced dev team with more resources they could afford to implement both gameplay and modern graphical features, rather than have to chose between the two. Art assets are a huge part of the budget cost in building an MMO (any game in fact) so it's not surprising Aventurine was forced to cut costs here.
Really? name one game that does this that is currently out as an MMO.
“The simple reality is that when someone has a fantastic product that does exactly what they're promising it does (as Tasos has claimed numerous times) they have no legitimate reason to hide it.”
-This you present as a fact, and yet it nothing but your opinion.
No, it's a fact. Feel free to point me to one successful product launch where the developer/creator did not attempt to show their product in the best possible light beforehand, to maximize their potential sales. If this is Aventurine's best (and I believe that it is) it's pretty uninspiring.
Because hyping the game makes it truthful? Look at AoC.
The wiki definition of troll:
"An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial and irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room, with the intention of provoking other users into an emotional response[1] or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion."
If my points weren't controversial we wouldn't be having a discussion, we'd all be sitting around in a big circle-jerk congratulating Aventurine on a job well done. But they were neither "irrelevant" nor "off topic"... and hence not trolling. Read before you quote.
most of your posts aren't very controversial, just sad attempts at trolling.
You also come off as wiki's "Concern troll"
"A concern troll is a false flag pseudonym created by a user whose actual point of view is opposed to the one that the user's sockpuppet claims to hold. The concern troll posts in web forums devoted to its declared point of view and attempts to sway the group's actions or opinions while claiming to share their goals, but with professed "concerns". The goal is to sow fear, uncertainty and doubt within the group.[13]"
Right here when you made this statement:
"But that doesn't mean that I'm actually hoping Darkfall will crash and burn - though the game doesn't appeal to me personally for a number of reasons (and no, I'm not a carebear), if it were to manage to launch even semi-successfully and retain just a modest fan base (sub-100K) it would send a positive message to other indie developers out there that it is possible to break the mould and achieve a respectable success in a niche market rather than trying to please everyone. Given the sorry, stagnant state of recent MMO releases this could only be a good thing."
Again, read before you quote. I'm not using a false/secondary account, and I don't imagine anyone would believe for a moment that I am a Darkfall fan (I clearly stated the opposite) sowing the seeds of dissent. I said that the (relative) success of this game would have positive effects, nothing more. And I went on to ay that I'm not sure even this will happen. Your attempts to pigeonhole my opinion are becoming ridiculous.
Then carried on with this:
Where are your evidence to back this up:
-Have the odds heavily stacked against being a successful product?
-Most probably DFO will not deliver any of the promised features?
-DFO will probably not even have a modest fanbase of under 100k?
-Aventurine is lying, and will scam us of money?
-Aventurine is hiding a glaring flaw, and will release with that?
-DFO will not be released in 2008 (now this could actually be debatable)
-Aventurine will NOT have the capacity to let everyone who like, try the game for free?
-DFO is NOT attempting to break the stagnant designs of MMO’s today?
-Aventurine has not shared anything of value with its community?
-The trailer did not show any of the anticipated features?
-Graphics > Gameplay? (please answer the question under the picture in my first post for me)
-One-dimensional combat system?
-Simplistic world (have a look at the screens)?
-Glaring holes in immersion because they prioritize latency?
-We will all be very disappointed when open beta materializes?
This is all largely pointless argument. You're asking me to provide evidence of something that doesn't yet exist, which is of course impossible. As for the odds being stacked against Darkfall's success, you want me to reiterate things that have been said a hundred times before. Very briefly then, Aventurine is a small company with little experience attempting a hugely demanding project, they have spent many years developing and redeveloping this project in an attempt to catch up with ever-increasing technical and artistic standards, they have released little or no substantial evidence to back their repeated claims as to the promised features of their product, and no credible witness has ever witnessed even a part of this game actually being played. All these factors together do NOT build a very encouraging picture, and thus if I were a betting man I would say that yes, the odds DO seem to be against it releasing successfully.
there was naval combat, mounted combat, and sieges in the video. That is proof of those existing, so they did indeed back their claims, or at least some of them.
It's still painful, but somone's got to do it.
I'll just manage for teh time being.
Well perhaps Tasos will award you an in-game medal for your heroic, albeit misguided efforts.
Misguided? It appears you, sir, are misguided.
DARKFALL 09!
Apparently 08 didn't make it
Sorros of Forumfall.
i'm so glad that this game will be released in few weeks/months