Regardless of what some people say about all the wonderful information in the developer logs, IMO, there is still very little info to go on about actual game mechanics in Darkfall.
I think those that are assuming DArkfall is going to be just like Darktide are way off base, from what I have read so far about Darkfall.
Darkfall =/= Darktide.
I think that's wishful thinking, that Darkfall will be just like Darktide on the part of those that liked Darktide.
I have seen dozens of threads like this one. I was an uber ganker, pk killer, etc., on Darktide and let me tell all you noobs what it's like in hardcore PvP blah, blah, blah.
I think Darkfall is going to be nothing like Darktide and all these poster will be sorely disappointed.
Originally posted by Somniferous Regardless of what some people say about all the wonderful information in the developer logs, IMO, there is still very little info to go on about actual game mechanics in Darkfall.
I think those that are assuming DArkfall is going to be just like Darktide are way off base, from what I have read so far about Darkfall. Darkfall =/= Darktide. I think that's wishful thinking, that Darkfall will be just like Darktide on the part of those that liked Darktide.
..From what you read about Darkfall??
If you never played Darkfall, then you are missing a HUGE point. Darkfall was a dream come true to almost everyone who loved pre-Trammel on UO, or atleast to me.
You are correct that nobody knows how the actual game mechanics of Darktide will work, or even if the game will actually release and be a decent game. That is assuming a LOT right there. Darkfall could only hope to be half as good as the old school UO and old school Darktide of AC. If it is, then I am there for sure. I have a lot of skepticism about Darkfall however.
But furthermore, I dont think many people expect Darkfall to be just the same as Darktide on AC was, but more HOPE that Darkfall captures some of the same elements of PvP and thrills of PvP that we experienced on Darktide and in the old school Felucia only worlds of Ultima Online.
I think that's wishful thinking, that Darkfall will be just like Darktide on the part of those that liked Darktide.
You can attack anyone in Darkfall anywhere.
It will be like Darktide.
And their 1 player per account isn't going to fix anything. People will just by another account for all their ganking they want to do.
So on Darktide there were guilds, and you couldn't attack your guild mates without going KOS to the gaurds? Guilds could declare war on other guilds, and if you attacked a guild member of a guild you weren't at war with, you'd go KOS to that guilds guards, merchants would let you trade with them?
So on Dartide levels didn't matter to much, and a couple of noobs could take out a maxed out player?
Darkfall is a different game. It's not just basic EQ clone with FFA pvP switch, which is waht Darktide was, no?
We don't know, maybe you are right, maybe I'm right. But I think Darkfall =/= Darktide. Again, wishful thinking.
Regardless of what some people say about all the wonderful information in the developer logs, IMO, there is still very little info to go on about actual game mechanics in Darkfall.
I think those that are assuming DArkfall is going to be just like Darktide are way off base, from what I have read so far about Darkfall.
Darkfall =/= Darktide.
I think that's wishful thinking, that Darkfall will be just like Darktide on the part of those that liked Darktide.
..From what you read about Darkfall??
If you never played Darkfall, then you are missing a HUGE point. Darkfall was a dream come true to almost everyone who loved pre-Trammel on UO, or atleast to me.
You are correct that nobody knows how the actual game mechanics of Darktide will work, or even if the game will actually release and be a decent game. That is assuming a LOT right there. Darkfall could only hope to be half as good as the old school UO and old school Darktide of AC. If it is, then I am there for sure. I have a lot of skepticism about Darkfall however.
But furthermore, I dont think many people expect Darkfall to be just the same as Darktide on AC was, but more HOPE that Darkfall captures some of the same elements of PvP and thrills of PvP that we experienced on Darktide and in the old school Felucia only worlds of Ultima Online.
- Zaxx
Obviously if you loved Darktide, you would hope Darkfall is just like that.
IMO, from everthing I"ve read, Darkfall is NOT just like Darktide, it is very, very different.
I could be wrong, we don't know until we see the implementation of the game mechanics, but it appears to me that Darktide fans are seeing something they want to, which is simply not there.
Just my interpretation of reading the Darkfall dev posts, and the Darktide fan posts.
You do know that the developers of this game played AC1 right? And that it was the basic inspiration.
I do know that I have read the developers blogs describing what sort of game they are making, and when I read it I don't get Darktide, maybe you do.
We will see on Jan 22, 2009.
IMO, all the "let me tell you how an uber harsh PvP FFA game works, 'cause I was l33t on Darktide and Darkfall is gonna be just like that" is way off base. DArkfall will be very, very different if what I have read in the developer blogs is accurate.
I don't think it would be worthwhile spending 5 or 7 years developing a game just to make it like Darktide servers. If that's all you wanted to do, it would be a heck of a lot easier.
I think that's wishful thinking, that Darkfall will be just like Darktide on the part of those that liked Darktide.
You can attack anyone in Darkfall anywhere.
It will be like Darktide.
And their 1 player per account isn't going to fix anything. People will just by another account for all their ganking they want to do.
So on Darktide there were guilds, and you couldn't attack your guild mates without going KOS to the gaurds? Guilds could declare war on other guilds, and if you attacked a guild member of a guild you weren't at war with, you'd go KOS to that guilds guards, merchants would let you trade with them?
Doesn't matter. All someone needs is to have two seperate accounts. Their main account could provide the ganker account with everything it needs to survive while ganking. So there's no penalty for the ganker.
[quote][i]Originally posted by Somniferous[/i] Obviously if you loved Darktide, you would hope Darkfall is just like that. IMO, from everthing I"ve read, Darkfall is NOT just like Darktide, it is very, very different. I could be wrong, we don't know until we see the implementation of the game mechanics, but it appears to me that Darktide fans are seeing something they want to, which is simply not there. Just my interpretation of reading the Darkfall dev posts, and the Darktide fan posts. [/quote]
You're right. Darkfall will probably not be even close to what Darktide of AC gave to us. Darkfall will likely give us a broken, buggy, piece of shit game that will go down as being one of the biggest jokes in gaming history. And that will certainly be way different that what Darktide of AC gave us. And yes, that would certainly be a disappointment.
But giving Aventurine the huge assumption that their game will deliver and play smoothly and have even 1/3 of their promised features... I think that what Aventurine is looking for is re-capture that same elements of gameplay and relentless PvP that we saw with pre-Trammel Ultima Online and on the Darktide server of Asheron's Call.
Certainly it will be different, and will won't be the same. But I guarantee you that this is their vision and what they are trying to accomplish - or make us believe they are trying to accomplish. Time will tell.
I think that's wishful thinking, that Darkfall will be just like Darktide on the part of those that liked Darktide.
You can attack anyone in Darkfall anywhere.
It will be like Darktide.
And their 1 player per account isn't going to fix anything. People will just by another account for all their ganking they want to do.
So on Darktide there were guilds, and you couldn't attack your guild mates without going KOS to the gaurds? Guilds could declare war on other guilds, and if you attacked a guild member of a guild you weren't at war with, you'd go KOS to that guilds guards, merchants would let you trade with them?
Doesn't matter. All someone needs is to have two seperate accounts. Their main account could provide the ganker account with everything it needs to survive while ganking. So there's no penalty for the ganker.
IMO, it does matter, if what the developer blogs say is an accurate description of the game.
You are basically saying, I know the developers have designed a game different from Darktide, but I believe I can get around the game design, and make the game like Darktide.
If the developers suck, then you may be right. If the developers are any good, you are very, very mistaken.
It would seem your hopes for the game rest on the developers being very shitty at their jobs.
What we do know for certain about the FFA PvP is the following:
1 - Outnumbering will be the normal PvP situation.
2 - You will get kills free of consequences only in your enemy factions.
3 - Any other kills (non-consensual PvP I guess but not sure) will get some consequences. The impact of these consequences is what is going to define how the game play is.
We do know nothing right now about this because we do know almost nothing about details and most important we haven’t played the game.
Then right now is totally pointless to try to imagine if Darkfall is going to be like Darktide or like any other PvP FFA game/server.
Don’t loose your time; January 22th hopefully we will start to get all the answers.
So umm... I need to meet up with the OP in game when it's released, it'll be good to play with someone who knows how it is and respects people.
I've even had times in UO where I've finally killed the guy that PK'd the hell outta me, he told me "Congrats, you kicked my ass, can I have my rune and enough reagents to port?" So I gave them to him, he showed back up with a bag full of loot and money and handed it to me and said "It's been great playing with you, thanks!".
See, that's respect. He didn't have to give me anything, he played the game, didn't personally attack me and after that (as he was still a better player than I, even if I did beat him once), he put me on whatever list him and his friends had and they left me alone.
It's about the social interactions with people. Had I flipped out and started name calling, etc... this guy would of NEVER treated me with the respect he did the day I killed him.
Nice read i hope many will read this and learned from this we need TOPICS like this, im also old ac player good to see some experience player share his knowledge with others:)
Pls place this also on the newbee section OFFICIALSITE OF DARKFALL!
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009..... In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
Pre-Trammel on UO was a gank fest. It didn't start out as bad originally, but by the time EQ was close to being released it was so bad you couldn't do anything. You couldn't dungeon crawl without a group running in to pk everyone and steal their loot. You couldn't go to your house without people hiding nearby to try and catch people as they were going in or coming out. There were player run cities that were constantly attacked. It became impossible to play the game in the manner you wanted to play it because you were always fighting someone off.
It was so bad, people wouldn't wear their good gear and weapons for fear of getting ganked and looted. Some of you might find that fun but I sure didn't. And that was a huge reason people flocked like mad to EQ at release.
"It is better to die on one's feet than to live on one's knees,"
People are forgetting one thing that will discourage pure zerging: This game has friendly fire. If you are just a disorganized mess in PvP and just swarm people you will just as likely kill your teammates as you will kill your 'target.' This is not a game like WoW where everyone can target one person and just throw area effect spells without penalty, you will hit your teammates, just as a missed swing or shot from a bow could easily hit your team.
What will be more likely to happen is small groups of 4 or 5 max working together in tight coordination, organized to fight well together, likely in Vent. Too many more to kill 1 or 2 targets is just asking to kill teammates.
I also played on Darktide in its early days. I was one of the "good guys" too. And despite the harshness and at times frustrating nature of it, it remains the pinnacle of my MMO experience. There's no "rush" in MMO's these days, because there's no risk. The idea that a developer is attempting to make a game to at least try to recapture some of that is enough to get me interested.
Look, nobody is claiming this is some WoW killer, mainstream MMO that everyone is going to want to play. But gnashing your teeth and wailing about how DOOMED it is because it doesn't cater to the same fangroup as everyone else is absurd. Would you go onto a message board dedicated to a small indy film that tries something different and lash out about how because it isn't the typical "Summer Blockbuster" they should just shut down production?
If it's good, and they're smart about how they spend their money, it should sustain enough of a playerbase to stick around. That's enough for me.
Okay, I have seen threads already for the players who are scared or worried that this game will just be a major gankfest. I am here to tell you that based on the environment that is being promised in Darkfall, this game will be a massive change from all you mmo players that haven't lived in a PvP world like Pre-Trammel Ultima Online (before 2000), the Darktide server of Asheron's Call, or the Andred or Mordred servers of Dark Age of Camelot. I played Lineage 2 when it released, but it just wasn't the same even with it's free-for-all PvP. My experience comes from playing Ultima Online during its early years, followed by the Darktide server of Asheron's Call. These two realms are by far the most memorable mmo experiences I have ever had. There is nothing that can compete with the thrill you get playing in a realm like Darkfall promises. Current mmo games like World of Warcraft can't even touch it, even in it's darkest corners. Risk vs Reward. That's what it's all about. And nothing is more rewarding that getting revenge and looting that bad ass PK that has killed you seven times in the past few days and finally figuring out how to turn the table in your favor. Whether that comes from out smarting him, or simply out skilling him, nothing beats the adrenaline obtained in those moments. I have played video games all my life for over 25 years now, and the PvP risk vs reward is bar none above all other video gaming moments added together. Current mmo games offer no risk or very little risk if there is any. If you go up against that bad ass PK (player-killer) and get killed but lose nothing of your inventory or wielded armor and weapons, then really what risk is that? No risk equals less immersion equals less fun. Period. If you disagree with me there, then really.. go back to WoW because Darkfall will not be for you. The first lesson you must learn when growing or skilling up in an open PvP world is to forget looking uber and cool and buying all that nice stuff early in your levels. Instead, run around and fight mobs and skill up basically nekked. Sell your loot and bank your coinage when you get enough to where it will hurt if you lose it. Use a cheap dagger or weapon and focus on learning how to kill without the advantage of all that cool loot. Then, when you do get "ganked", that 'blankety-blank' you'll call him won't be able to loot anything off your corpse that will give him any pleasure from the kill. Secondly, you won't lose anything this way, so being ganked hurts less. Once you have skilled and leveled up to a respectable level, then you may risk using all that saved up coinage to buy some needed gear and supplies. But only buy what you need. The second lesson you need to learn is to STFU when you do get ganked. One of the main pleasures that a ganker gets is the reward of pissing noobs under him off so bad when he kills them. So you sitting there spamming him and cursing him out only adds to his pleasure and will probably mean that he'll be hunting you down for another easy kill again ASAP.. or maybe he'll just wait until your dumbass goes out and buys some more cool stuff to put on so he can kill you and loot you again and go pawn your stuff. Just shut up, take it like a man, and realize that one day, if you go out and level up instead of talking shit, you might just be able to challenge him one day, or atleast make him respect you. The third lesson is to learn to make friends instead of enemies. This means not begging higher skilled toons for money, armor, twinking, Power-leveling, etc etc. Go out there and earn it yourself. Others WILL take notice over all the lame ass noobs sitting in spawn points spamming either BS or begging non stop. This will earn you respect which will definitely come in handy later on when they notice you getting ganked. Now they might just come up and pound that guy that just killed you to a bloody pulp and perhaps even allow you to come up and take that last death dealing blow to that 95% beaten down punk! The fourth lesson goes opposite of all I've said so far as in when you finally get big and bad enough to kill some punks yourself. Again, when this happens STFU unless you can be classy about what you spew. Win with style and respect. Trash talking earns no respect and certainly doesn't help you when you need it the most from someone who could have saved your life or helped you with that little heal that allowed you to finish that quest you've been working to hard to finish. It's really common sense. In a harsh world like Darkfall promises, learn not to be greedy and try to look so "uber" early on. You'll only feel and look stupid when you lose it all so quickly. Don't treat others as you wouldnt want to be treated yourself. Trash talking certainly doesn't avenge that guy who just one hit you. It just makes him laugh more at you and gives him even more pleasure. And once you grow up and one hit some punk yourself, rememeber how it felt when you was in his shoes and don't even entertain the thought of adding trash talk back at him. Have class. Whether you decide to be a "random PK" or a "good guy" who polices and protect the innocent. You can easily play either role or anywhere in between with honor and respect. Doing this will not only aid a ton in your own enjoyment of the game, but will also help the others you play with enjoy the game as well. Just some healthy PvP advice from someone experienced in the harshest of these realms in the "good ol days". ..Let's hope that Darkfall actually provides us all with a fresh new glimpse of the amount of fun and thrilling gaming that can only be had in a free world with completely open PvP where there is actually consequences for dying. ;-)
- Zaxx
I too have played on AC CT and UO (pre carebearification) and you bring up many points that I agree with, however I feel you have missed on vital point.
There must be balance with the risk-reward thing you mention. AC DT solved this brilliantly by having a death penalty that scaled with level. So at low level you dropped X number of stuff but at higher level you dropped Y and there was always things that were not droppable on death.
This imo stroke a perfect balance in risk-reward in the sense that death hurt, death matter but was not devastating so that it set you back hours (such as in Eve). This is very important in creating an atmosphere where there is consequences and reward for PvP but it isnt so bad to discourage people from engaging in it unless they massively outnumber their target (such as in Eve). That creates a "constipated" PvP atmosphere that more discourages people from engaging in PvP than encourages and this is bad.
Another point that needs to be brought up is that ganking should be avoidable to some extent. Again AC DT solved this by not having typical ganking classes such as Assassins and offering you a radar where you could spot other players before they got close to you also there was very little in the form of crowd control spells (root, snare etc). This was a good thing which gave everyone the possibility to avoid getting ganked over and over again if you were alert and watched your back. Games such as DAoC PvP servers and Eve did not have this so there ganking was very frequent which again created a bad PvP atmoshpere.
Observe that I am not saying ganking should be forbidden, it is part of any FFA PvP system, however it needs to be a way to reduce the chances if you are alert enough.
This has the added bonus of allowing retreat in combat if it is going back, that adds more elements to combat than just win or lose. Then you can also cut your losses and retreat.
Anyone who says this game will be nothing like Darktide obviously knows nothing about Asheron's Call. Just watch this video of an AC pvp battle. www.youtube.com/watch That's more or less the battle system they are going for.
Never played AC so could you tell me if it was a level based system?
There are no levels in Darkfall, just a skill based system in a FPS style environment. This should amount to less of a desparity between higher level vs lower levels prevalent in other games.
people cant comprehend the idea of Darkfall and past games.. but when you have experiences the rush of your 1st kill.. which is like a drug.. they will get it!
There are many things in Darkfall where a less pvp oriented player can survive and not always be ganked.
Just go read up some faq and dev talks search for topics about it Darkfall is not only pk heaven or a total gankfest.
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009..... In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
Darkfall is gonna be a gankfest.... Every hard core PVP game in the past has always been. People play a bit get ganked a few times and quit. EVERY game that started like this soon after started launching new rules or separating servers into hard core and less hard core.
Guess thats because this hard core PvP approach is so popular...
In my experience it is popular with the top end guilds that power level themselves over everyone else and they take great pleasure in telling noobs how great the game is then when they come in slaughtering them lambs and laughing about it.
Anyone who says this game will be nothing like Darktide obviously knows nothing about Asheron's Call. Just watch this video of an AC pvp battle. www.youtube.com/watch That's more or less the battle system they are going for.
It would make no difference if you were the developer of Asheron's Call, and you wrote the program for the game, and that's how much you knew abou Asheron's Call.
The point is you don't know what PvP FFA is going to be like in Darkfall.
Anyone that says they do, has been playing in the beta.
So sure, if you played AC Darktide, and you've been playing the Darkfall beta and you're saying the games are just alike, then I'll take your word for it.
Comments
Regardless of what some people say about all the wonderful information in the developer logs, IMO, there is still very little info to go on about actual game mechanics in Darkfall.
I think those that are assuming DArkfall is going to be just like Darktide are way off base, from what I have read so far about Darkfall.
Darkfall =/= Darktide.
I think that's wishful thinking, that Darkfall will be just like Darktide on the part of those that liked Darktide.
I have seen dozens of threads like this one. I was an uber ganker, pk killer, etc., on Darktide and let me tell all you noobs what it's like in hardcore PvP blah, blah, blah.
I think Darkfall is going to be nothing like Darktide and all these poster will be sorely disappointed.
You can attack anyone in Darkfall anywhere. Full loot.
It will be just like Darktide. And their "faction hit" is a joke.
And their 1 player per account isn't going to fix anything either. People will just buy another account for all their ganking they want to do.
..From what you read about Darkfall??
If you never played Darkfall, then you are missing a HUGE point. Darkfall was a dream come true to almost everyone who loved pre-Trammel on UO, or atleast to me.
You are correct that nobody knows how the actual game mechanics of Darktide will work, or even if the game will actually release and be a decent game. That is assuming a LOT right there. Darkfall could only hope to be half as good as the old school UO and old school Darktide of AC. If it is, then I am there for sure. I have a lot of skepticism about Darkfall however.
But furthermore, I dont think many people expect Darkfall to be just the same as Darktide on AC was, but more HOPE that Darkfall captures some of the same elements of PvP and thrills of PvP that we experienced on Darktide and in the old school Felucia only worlds of Ultima Online.
- Zaxx
You can attack anyone in Darkfall anywhere.
It will be like Darktide.
And their 1 player per account isn't going to fix anything. People will just by another account for all their ganking they want to do.
So on Darktide there were guilds, and you couldn't attack your guild mates without going KOS to the gaurds? Guilds could declare war on other guilds, and if you attacked a guild member of a guild you weren't at war with, you'd go KOS to that guilds guards, merchants would let you trade with them?
So on Dartide levels didn't matter to much, and a couple of noobs could take out a maxed out player?
Darkfall is a different game. It's not just basic EQ clone with FFA pvP switch, which is waht Darktide was, no?
We don't know, maybe you are right, maybe I'm right. But I think Darkfall =/= Darktide. Again, wishful thinking.
..From what you read about Darkfall??
If you never played Darkfall, then you are missing a HUGE point. Darkfall was a dream come true to almost everyone who loved pre-Trammel on UO, or atleast to me.
You are correct that nobody knows how the actual game mechanics of Darktide will work, or even if the game will actually release and be a decent game. That is assuming a LOT right there. Darkfall could only hope to be half as good as the old school UO and old school Darktide of AC. If it is, then I am there for sure. I have a lot of skepticism about Darkfall however.
But furthermore, I dont think many people expect Darkfall to be just the same as Darktide on AC was, but more HOPE that Darkfall captures some of the same elements of PvP and thrills of PvP that we experienced on Darktide and in the old school Felucia only worlds of Ultima Online.
- Zaxx
Obviously if you loved Darktide, you would hope Darkfall is just like that.
IMO, from everthing I"ve read, Darkfall is NOT just like Darktide, it is very, very different.
I could be wrong, we don't know until we see the implementation of the game mechanics, but it appears to me that Darktide fans are seeing something they want to, which is simply not there.
Just my interpretation of reading the Darkfall dev posts, and the Darktide fan posts.
You do know that the developers of this game played AC1 right?
And that it was the basic inspiration.
I do know that I have read the developers blogs describing what sort of game they are making, and when I read it I don't get Darktide, maybe you do.
We will see on Jan 22, 2009.
IMO, all the "let me tell you how an uber harsh PvP FFA game works, 'cause I was l33t on Darktide and Darkfall is gonna be just like that" is way off base. DArkfall will be very, very different if what I have read in the developer blogs is accurate.
I don't think it would be worthwhile spending 5 or 7 years developing a game just to make it like Darktide servers. If that's all you wanted to do, it would be a heck of a lot easier.
You can attack anyone in Darkfall anywhere.
It will be like Darktide.
And their 1 player per account isn't going to fix anything. People will just by another account for all their ganking they want to do.
So on Darktide there were guilds, and you couldn't attack your guild mates without going KOS to the gaurds? Guilds could declare war on other guilds, and if you attacked a guild member of a guild you weren't at war with, you'd go KOS to that guilds guards, merchants would let you trade with them?
Doesn't matter. All someone needs is to have two seperate accounts. Their main account could provide the ganker account with everything it needs to survive while ganking. So there's no penalty for the ganker.
[quote][i]Originally posted by Somniferous[/i] Obviously if you loved Darktide, you would hope Darkfall is just like that. IMO, from everthing I"ve read, Darkfall is NOT just like Darktide, it is very, very different. I could be wrong, we don't know until we see the implementation of the game mechanics, but it appears to me that Darktide fans are seeing something they want to, which is simply not there. Just my interpretation of reading the Darkfall dev posts, and the Darktide fan posts. [/quote]
You're right. Darkfall will probably not be even close to what Darktide of AC gave to us. Darkfall will likely give us a broken, buggy, piece of shit game that will go down as being one of the biggest jokes in gaming history. And that will certainly be way different that what Darktide of AC gave us. And yes, that would certainly be a disappointment.
But giving Aventurine the huge assumption that their game will deliver and play smoothly and have even 1/3 of their promised features... I think that what Aventurine is looking for is re-capture that same elements of gameplay and relentless PvP that we saw with pre-Trammel Ultima Online and on the Darktide server of Asheron's Call.
Certainly it will be different, and will won't be the same. But I guarantee you that this is their vision and what they are trying to accomplish - or make us believe they are trying to accomplish. Time will tell.
- Zaxx
You can attack anyone in Darkfall anywhere.
It will be like Darktide.
And their 1 player per account isn't going to fix anything. People will just by another account for all their ganking they want to do.
So on Darktide there were guilds, and you couldn't attack your guild mates without going KOS to the gaurds? Guilds could declare war on other guilds, and if you attacked a guild member of a guild you weren't at war with, you'd go KOS to that guilds guards, merchants would let you trade with them?
Doesn't matter. All someone needs is to have two seperate accounts. Their main account could provide the ganker account with everything it needs to survive while ganking. So there's no penalty for the ganker.
IMO, it does matter, if what the developer blogs say is an accurate description of the game.
You are basically saying, I know the developers have designed a game different from Darktide, but I believe I can get around the game design, and make the game like Darktide.
If the developers suck, then you may be right. If the developers are any good, you are very, very mistaken.
It would seem your hopes for the game rest on the developers being very shitty at their jobs.
What we do know for certain about the FFA PvP is the following:
1 - Outnumbering will be the normal PvP situation.
2 - You will get kills free of consequences only in your enemy factions.
3 - Any other kills (non-consensual PvP I guess but not sure) will get some consequences. The impact of these consequences is what is going to define how the game play is.
We do know nothing right now about this because we do know almost nothing about details and most important we haven’t played the game.
Then right now is totally pointless to try to imagine if Darkfall is going to be like Darktide or like any other PvP FFA game/server.
Don’t loose your time; January 22th hopefully we will start to get all the answers.
Anyway interesting reads in this thread
So umm... I need to meet up with the OP in game when it's released, it'll be good to play with someone who knows how it is and respects people.
I've even had times in UO where I've finally killed the guy that PK'd the hell outta me, he told me "Congrats, you kicked my ass, can I have my rune and enough reagents to port?" So I gave them to him, he showed back up with a bag full of loot and money and handed it to me and said "It's been great playing with you, thanks!".
See, that's respect. He didn't have to give me anything, he played the game, didn't personally attack me and after that (as he was still a better player than I, even if I did beat him once), he put me on whatever list him and his friends had and they left me alone.
It's about the social interactions with people. Had I flipped out and started name calling, etc... this guy would of NEVER treated me with the respect he did the day I killed him.
-Trekkan
Just For Fun Gaming
WWW.JFFGAMING.COM
Nice read i hope many will read this and learned from this we need TOPICS like this, im also old ac player good to see some experience player share his knowledge with others:)
Pls place this also on the newbee section OFFICIALSITE OF DARKFALL!
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009.....
In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
Pre-Trammel on UO was a gank fest. It didn't start out as bad originally, but by the time EQ was close to being released it was so bad you couldn't do anything. You couldn't dungeon crawl without a group running in to pk everyone and steal their loot. You couldn't go to your house without people hiding nearby to try and catch people as they were going in or coming out. There were player run cities that were constantly attacked. It became impossible to play the game in the manner you wanted to play it because you were always fighting someone off.
It was so bad, people wouldn't wear their good gear and weapons for fear of getting ganked and looted. Some of you might find that fun but I sure didn't. And that was a huge reason people flocked like mad to EQ at release.
"It is better to die on one's feet than to live on one's knees,"
People are forgetting one thing that will discourage pure zerging: This game has friendly fire. If you are just a disorganized mess in PvP and just swarm people you will just as likely kill your teammates as you will kill your 'target.' This is not a game like WoW where everyone can target one person and just throw area effect spells without penalty, you will hit your teammates, just as a missed swing or shot from a bow could easily hit your team.
What will be more likely to happen is small groups of 4 or 5 max working together in tight coordination, organized to fight well together, likely in Vent. Too many more to kill 1 or 2 targets is just asking to kill teammates.
I also played on Darktide in its early days. I was one of the "good guys" too. And despite the harshness and at times frustrating nature of it, it remains the pinnacle of my MMO experience. There's no "rush" in MMO's these days, because there's no risk. The idea that a developer is attempting to make a game to at least try to recapture some of that is enough to get me interested.
Look, nobody is claiming this is some WoW killer, mainstream MMO that everyone is going to want to play. But gnashing your teeth and wailing about how DOOMED it is because it doesn't cater to the same fangroup as everyone else is absurd. Would you go onto a message board dedicated to a small indy film that tries something different and lash out about how because it isn't the typical "Summer Blockbuster" they should just shut down production?
If it's good, and they're smart about how they spend their money, it should sustain enough of a playerbase to stick around. That's enough for me.
Heck, for me its both!
Hell yeah baby!
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Give me a good skill based sandbox game, and i'll give you a cookie!
Anyone who says this game will be nothing like Darktide obviously knows nothing about Asheron's Call. Just watch this video of an AC pvp battle.
www.youtube.com/watch
That's more or less the battle system they are going for.
I too have played on AC CT and UO (pre carebearification) and you bring up many points that I agree with, however I feel you have missed on vital point.
There must be balance with the risk-reward thing you mention. AC DT solved this brilliantly by having a death penalty that scaled with level. So at low level you dropped X number of stuff but at higher level you dropped Y and there was always things that were not droppable on death.
This imo stroke a perfect balance in risk-reward in the sense that death hurt, death matter but was not devastating so that it set you back hours (such as in Eve). This is very important in creating an atmosphere where there is consequences and reward for PvP but it isnt so bad to discourage people from engaging in it unless they massively outnumber their target (such as in Eve). That creates a "constipated" PvP atmosphere that more discourages people from engaging in PvP than encourages and this is bad.
Another point that needs to be brought up is that ganking should be avoidable to some extent. Again AC DT solved this by not having typical ganking classes such as Assassins and offering you a radar where you could spot other players before they got close to you also there was very little in the form of crowd control spells (root, snare etc). This was a good thing which gave everyone the possibility to avoid getting ganked over and over again if you were alert and watched your back. Games such as DAoC PvP servers and Eve did not have this so there ganking was very frequent which again created a bad PvP atmoshpere.
Observe that I am not saying ganking should be forbidden, it is part of any FFA PvP system, however it needs to be a way to reduce the chances if you are alert enough.
This has the added bonus of allowing retreat in combat if it is going back, that adds more elements to combat than just win or lose. Then you can also cut your losses and retreat.
My gaming blog
Never played AC so could you tell me if it was a level based system?
There are no levels in Darkfall, just a skill based system in a FPS style environment. This should amount to less of a desparity between higher level vs lower levels prevalent in other games.
Get better and you should live longer.
great post.. very true words..
people cant comprehend the idea of Darkfall and past games.. but when you have experiences the rush of your 1st kill.. which is like a drug.. they will get it!
Remember Old School Ultima Online
There are many things in Darkfall where a less pvp oriented player can survive and not always be ganked.
Just go read up some faq and dev talks search for topics about it Darkfall is not only pk heaven or a total gankfest.
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009.....
In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
Darkfall is gonna be a gankfest.... Every hard core PVP game in the past has always been. People play a bit get ganked a few times and quit. EVERY game that started like this soon after started launching new rules or separating servers into hard core and less hard core.
Guess thats because this hard core PvP approach is so popular...
In my experience it is popular with the top end guilds that power level themselves over everyone else and they take great pleasure in telling noobs how great the game is then when they come in slaughtering them lambs and laughing about it.
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Ethion
It would make no difference if you were the developer of Asheron's Call, and you wrote the program for the game, and that's how much you knew abou Asheron's Call.
The point is you don't know what PvP FFA is going to be like in Darkfall.
Anyone that says they do, has been playing in the beta.
So sure, if you played AC Darktide, and you've been playing the Darkfall beta and you're saying the games are just alike, then I'll take your word for it.