There's not really a point in having mutliple servers with different gameplay types. I'm one of the many UO players from the day it launched. Part of what made the game so good was that you had every style of player on the server. For every villian, there was a hero, etc... Some people just liked to craft and sell those items. The hero's would protect them while they mined, etc (or even the crafters would pay people for protection while they did it), the villians would pick new targets or try their luck (or even try to extort money from you, it sounds bad, but it was FUN! Call your friends, they show up, slay him... problem solved). While getting killed and losing all of your stuff sucked (as I died many many times), it's what made the game FUN. Just like now, there are areas of my city I won't walk in without backup... if I did, I almost deserve what I get, because I know better. The same goes for the game, you'll learn where the bad guys hang out, if you choose to go there, it's your fault. You'll also know where the good guys hang out and who to call for help. You'll make friends who you can rely on, join guilds whose sole purpose is to help those in need and know you always have backup. That even if you do get ganked, your guild will be on them... bounties on their heads, etc... So while I can understand people don't want to get ganked as soon as they are 6 feet from the newbie city gates (and I'm one of you)... It's not as bad as it seems. Those that have been around long enough (UO for example) know how this works and how it can work. It's a society, there are good people and bad people. People that you'll agree with and people that you won't. For many of us, that's what makes it fun and why we're interested in this game.
Your point would make sense if there was only going to be one server and one server only. Otherwise what does it matter? Your server is gonna fill up with whatever types of players it gets, and the next server will do the same and so on and so forth. You will get good and bad, crafter and explorers etc. The only difference is why cut out a part of the population that wants to play but maybe not to a certain extreme. AC did exactly what I am talking about and it is still around today, going on what 8-10 years. Might not have a HUGE population like some of today's games but still has people that want to play it.
However I cannot agree more that having a consequence for dying made the games of old insanely fun as well as people shouldn't be worrying about "ganking".
There's not really a point in having mutliple servers with different gameplay types. I'm one of the many UO players from the day it launched. Part of what made the game so good was that you had every style of player on the server. For every villian, there was a hero, etc... Some people just liked to craft and sell those items. The hero's would protect them while they mined, etc (or even the crafters would pay people for protection while they did it), the villians would pick new targets or try their luck (or even try to extort money from you, it sounds bad, but it was FUN! Call your friends, they show up, slay him... problem solved). While getting killed and losing all of your stuff sucked (as I died many many times), it's what made the game FUN. Just like now, there are areas of my city I won't walk in without backup... if I did, I almost deserve what I get, because I know better. The same goes for the game, you'll learn where the bad guys hang out, if you choose to go there, it's your fault. You'll also know where the good guys hang out and who to call for help. You'll make friends who you can rely on, join guilds whose sole purpose is to help those in need and know you always have backup. That even if you do get ganked, your guild will be on them... bounties on their heads, etc... So while I can understand people don't want to get ganked as soon as they are 6 feet from the newbie city gates (and I'm one of you)... It's not as bad as it seems. Those that have been around long enough (UO for example) know how this works and how it can work. It's a society, there are good people and bad people. People that you'll agree with and people that you won't. For many of us, that's what makes it fun and why we're interested in this game.
Your point would make sense if there was only going to be one server and one server only. Otherwise what does it matter? Your server is gonna fill up with whatever types of players it gets, and the next server will do the same and so on and so forth. You will get good and bad, crafter and explorers etc. The only difference is why cut out a part of the population that wants to play but maybe not to a certain extreme. AC did exactly what I am talking about and it is still around today, going on what 8-10 years. Might not have a HUGE population like some of today's games but still has people that want to play it.
However I cannot agree more that having a consequence for dying made the games of old insanely fun as well as people shouldn't be worrying about "ganking".
You're correct. However I guess the issue is a little less obvious. I used to suffer from what I am about to say as well (basically, I'm not pointing fingers at anyone specifically). Every game is not for everyone. There, I said it. Seriously, I know how it is, when you see a new game, it looks really cool, has all sorts of features you really really want and then you read it has feature X and you feel completely let down because it clashes with your style.
The first thing that happens is you get upset, you feel like something has been taken from you. The second (for most) is they lash out, be it in complaining on the forums, talking the game down to their friends, etc. And usually the third is they try it anyway and then get pissed all over again because it's not the game they want, they quit in disgust and tell everyone how crappy of a game it is.
This isn't the fault of the developer, it's the fault of the player. Again, not every game is for everyone. I really want a lot out of this game myself and if it doesn't have what I want, I'll be disappointed and I'll jump ship to the next thing. It'd be great to say DF will be for all types of players, that everyone will love it. But the fact is, you can't make everyone happy and by focusing on a specific area, they won't make everyone happy, but those that ARE happy with that area, will be very happy and stick around.
Will those numbers be enough to keep the lights on? Who knows, we'll find out eventually though.
No, you missed the point entirely. I was saying that UO was unique in the history of gaming, because it was an FFA PvP game that had hardcore Pk'ers and Carebears in the same game. Why? Carebears had no where else to go, and it was really cool to be able to play an online game with otehr people. THAT is what made pre-Trammel UO such a special experience, not just the fact that it had FFA Pvp in the game. That sort of thing can never happen again. If you like PvE, but not PvP you just go play a PvE game, there are hundreds of them now. Nothing to do with my preference for PvP or PvE, or how many people want to play a PvP game, or what kind of game you would liek to play, etc., etc. If you play an FFA PvP game, it will be becasue you like FFA PvP games. Once upon a time, that was not necessarily the case.
UO released in what late 97, sure it was a PvP game. Hell at that time that was all you got or could get, so noone really knew any different. Fast forward a year or so later and EQ and AC released offering both FFA and Regular servers, hell one could say Trammel was UO's way of keeping people that finally had choices as far as not having to FFA. Just speculation on my part of course. So for pre-trammel you had options, AC, EQ and UO. UO was not necessarily unique because it had both in the same game, it might of been the first but not unique by any stretch of the imagination. AC on regular servers also had hardcore PvP'ers and Carebears occupying the same world. As far as "Carebears" not having anywhere else to go, they weren't necessarily carebears. Since there was only one game offering one thing they were all simply PvPers, of varying extremes but still PvPers. The carebear aspect didn't arrive until games came out offering the choice of which type of gameplay you wanted.
It could easily happen again, while you can probably never remake the great games of the past you can create a game based on the mechanics. Today's games say you cannot go here cause it is to scary and dangerous, or you have to play this class and that is all you will ever be, or we will tell you who your enemy is etc. DF can easily do it again, by simply offering a choice of server types like AC did. Regular servers where you can choose to go RED or stay WHITE, or making it so if you die you don't drop your loot or incur a death penalty of any kind, and then a hardcore/extreme where you are always RED and do drop loot and/or incur death penalties. I always thought that developers should treat their regular and PvP servers as two different entities, and adjust the content accordingly. It might be time consuming and expensive but think it would be cheaper than having to make a new game.
I did reread your post and it became obvious that you were talking about the time frame from UO live until EQ and AC launched. So my reponse was a tad skewed as it wasn't geared towards the specific time frame which made it a bit off base, my apologies. I am also no expert on UO or EQ as I never played and I am guessing at the time frames, but think they are pretty close. I do enjoy bumping into other MMO dinosaurs that remember the glory days, and am glad that I will have the opportunity to play against them in a game like we all knew and loved.
Just for a point of reference :
UO released Sept. 1997
---- Trammel/Felucca split was in May 2000
Many say it was due to the shrinking population that both AC and EQ were stealing away from UO. This gave UO a way to compete for those subscribers who wanted to stay in the UO world, but didn't like the forced PvP aspect.
You're correct. However I guess the issue is a little less obvious. I used to suffer from what I am about to say as well (basically, I'm not pointing fingers at anyone specifically). Every game is not for everyone. There, I said it. Seriously, I know how it is, when you see a new game, it looks really cool, has all sorts of features you really really want and then you read it has feature X and you feel completely let down because it clashes with your style. The first thing that happens is you get upset, you feel like something has been taken from you. The second (for most) is they lash out, be it in complaining on the forums, talking the game down to their friends, etc. And usually the third is they try it anyway and then get pissed all over again because it's not the game they want, they quit in disgust and tell everyone how crappy of a game it is. This isn't the fault of the developer, it's the fault of the player. Again, not every game is for everyone. I really want a lot out of this game myself and if it doesn't have what I want, I'll be disappointed and I'll jump ship to the next thing. It'd be great to say DF will be for all types of players, that everyone will love it. But the fact is, you can't make everyone happy and by focusing on a specific area, they won't make everyone happy, but those that ARE happy with that area, will be very happy and stick around. Will those numbers be enough to keep the lights on? Who knows, we'll find out eventually though.
Has nothing at all do with the game isn't for everyone, the game is being sold as a FFA game. FFA does not mean full loot, or death penalties or anything else, is simply means Free For All. There will be no faction on faction like games do today, and you are free to do what you want, go anywhere you want. In order for DF to succeed it will have to reach X amount of subs, it would be foolish for them to say ah hell why have 1 million subs by catering to all the PvP crowd when we can get by on 500k. Your post makes no sense, if you are one that prefers harsh/extreme PvP like me then you'll play on that server, others might want a tad milder. It has nothing to do with the game isn't for them, that issue only applies for people that don't want any kind of FFA life. Like I mentioned it has been done before and proven to work. It wouldn't take much coding at all to have the regular servers have less to no loot drop or a lesser death penalty, while keep the extreme ones at or near whatever max they have. In the FFA crowd there are varying degrees of players and what kind of PvP they look for.
The "Its not for you" argument only works for those players that prefer PvE types of games or completely benign PvP with no risk or consequences.
That is my thought on Trammel, UO had to do something to offer a style of gameplay to those that could get it in EQ or AC. Back in the day there were only a finite amount of gamers and between the 3 you pretty much encompassed all of them, so you couldn't ignore a segment of your games population. Today it doesn't matter so much as there are more games than players it seems, ok that is a stretch.
It won't just be a pure gank fest, but there will definately be ganking. My guild is a PK/pirate guild who will be playing as bad guys, so obviously we will be doing a lot of ganking/player killing.. that isn't all there is to the game though.
It will become a gankfest. EVERY free-for-all PVP game I have ever played has become a gankfest, and factions will not stop it.
Heck, even certain death at the hands of NPC guards will not stop it; I had a friend who was building up his lowbie ship and mining in the safe zone of EVE and people came to gank him even though they were subsequently blasted by the NPC guard ships.
Trust me, this game likely will be a gankfest. Now some will love this. Carebears might leave in disappointment. Just my prediction.
It will become a gankfest. EVERY free-for-all PVP game I have ever played has become a gankfest, and factions will not stop it. Heck, even certain death at the hands of NPC guards will not stop it; I had a friend who was building up his lowbie ship and mining in the safe zone of EVE and people came to gank him even though they were subsequently blasted by the NPC guard ships. Trust me, this game likely will be a gankfest. Now some will love this. Carebears might leave in disappointment. Just my prediction.
So your whole basis is that it will be a gankfest becuase every game that had FFA in it that you played was a gankfest and your only example is that one time your friend got ganked in EVE? LoL Maybe you should of used some examples of games you actually played. All I can say is god I hope its a gankfest the likes of which have not been seen since the days of Darktide, I will be sorely disappointed if the game world is just like WoW and WAR PvP worlds. Also since you can apparently tell the future how bout shooting me the mega million lotto numbers.
In order for it to be a gankfest, as you call it, you would have to have over 50% of the population doing nothing but ganking non-stop on every single server. Hmmm I am thinking that won't happen, there will be PK guilds, Anti guilds and Neutral guilds just like every other FFA game.
I see where he's comming from with, what's preventing a full world pvp game from becoming a gankfest, simply because the immaturity of the community? And I agree, this often does happen in games who don't take the proper measures to impliment a system, without limiting freedom.
thankfully, I think the alignment system, coupled with only being able to have one character per server will suffice. Though of course there will be a few players who simply are extremly low alignment, and live exlusivly in their clan city and have minimal interaction with other players aside from killing them. But I believe a majority will be deturred from doing so , because they are forced to live with the consequences.
Because of the FFA PvP without safe zones, I dont expect DF will get many players. Yeah because a game that offers something that no other game does is going to make it unpopular. Yeah that makes sense You only need a few griefers that camp the newb starting zones to frustrate new players enough to stop playing. Is Darkfall a story driven game where everyone starts at the beginning and works their way through to the end? No I didnt think so......so what are these "newb starting zones" you are referring to exactly? Yeah you only need a few griefers to camp an area to......oh hang on......is that a group of players ambushing those foolish griefers who thought it would be a good idea to hang around in the same place mugging random people? Oh dear they appear to have been put to the sword. I for one would be happy to protect newbs from time to time, but it wont be always possible. This will be again the typically stupid unbalanced crap where the players who raced to max lvl have fun and the newbs who start a bit later get frustrated, because they wont get the fair chance like the early access crowd did. Tell me how you will spot a "newb" in Darkfall. How will they look different to anyone else? Also tell me how you "race to max level" in a game that doesnt have any levels. How will a player with less skill than another player look different? Which skills are we talking about here anyway? So you will be ale to spot someone who has low skill with a sword? I'm interested in knowing how you can do that. Please tell me. What about his skill with a bow or an axe? How about his running speed or his general toughness? What if he is a fast swimmer? What about his skill in martial arts or his ability to throw a fireball? Can he see in the dark? Can he use magic to jump out of danger. How will you be able to work out all of this varied information and reach the conclusion that you are looking at a "newb"? Oh yeah thats right......you cant! You havent thought about this at all have you. Oh hang on.....could it possibly be that you are making an extremely weak judgement based on other PvE level based games that were never designed for PvP and actually had it added as an afterthought? Oh yeah thats right.....you are arent you. Dont worry there are hundreds if not thousands of close-minded people just like you who have reached the very same stupid conclusion so its ok you're not alone. Monkey see monkey do. Griefers thrive on this. All they do is preventing others to have any fair fighting chance at all. Thats what they enjoy. Any game that will support this kind of cowardly behaviour with game mechanics will never get a large crowd. Simply because of the few cowards that like to bully newbs. Good thing that Darkfall has been designed with FFA PvP in mind (unlike every other mmo) so it wont be supporting that kind of behaviour. Your misguided assumptions would apply to PvP in other mmos but none of it really has any relevance where Darkfall is concerned.
It will become a gankfest. EVERY free-for-all PVP game I have ever played has become a gankfest, and factions will not stop it. Heck, even certain death at the hands of NPC guards will not stop it; I had a friend who was building up his lowbie ship and mining in the safe zone of EVE and people came to gank him even though they were subsequently blasted by the NPC guard ships. Trust me, this game likely will be a gankfest. Now some will love this. Carebears might leave in disappointment. Just my prediction.
I played EvE for several months and I never got attacked by another player once.
Anyway how about providing a list of all of the FFA PvP games you have played and also perhaps explain why we should trust you?
ps. I like the way you begin your post with "It will become a gankfest" and you end it with "this game will likely be a gankfest".
It will become a gankfest. EVERY free-for-all PVP game I have ever played has become a gankfest, and factions will not stop it. Heck, even certain death at the hands of NPC guards will not stop it; I had a friend who was building up his lowbie ship and mining in the safe zone of EVE and people came to gank him even though they were subsequently blasted by the NPC guard ships. Trust me, this game likely will be a gankfest. Now some will love this. Carebears might leave in disappointment. Just my prediction.
So your whole basis is that it will be a gankfest becuase every game that had FFA in it that you played was a gankfest and your only example is that one time your friend got ganked in EVE? LoL Maybe you should of used some examples of games you actually played. All I can say is god I hope its a gankfest the likes of which have not been seen since the days of Darktide, I will be sorely disappointed if the game world is just like WoW and WAR PvP worlds. Also since you can apparently tell the future how bout shooting me the mega million lotto numbers.
In order for it to be a gankfest, as you call it, you would have to have over 50% of the population doing nothing but ganking non-stop on every single server. Hmmm I am thinking that won't happen, there will be PK guilds, Anti guilds and Neutral guilds just like every other FFA game.
I may not be a mad dog type PKer, but I want the game world to be as dangerous as possible, because I love the thrill of threat and (hopefully) winning out over that threat in games, but no this game won't be a all out all the time perpetual 'gankfest'. I'm with Splixx on this.
The term 'gankfest' is obviously a negative one chosen to hurt this game's reputation even more, but yes, the world willbe full of active and aggressive PvP. Thank god.
I figure in the end it will just boil down to roaming mobs of greifers looking for some poor sucker fighting a NPC and ganking his ass from behind before he knows what hit him. That has turned out to be the case in every FFA PvP game I have ever seen at least. Time wil tell though.
BTW Eve has safe zones so yes in that game it is possible to never PvP. In DAoC it was RvR not open PvP ( except for Mordrid server) you could only PvP in certain areas so that worked. Maybe DF will have a something similar, maybe not. Like I said time will tell
I think we will see rampant ganking at first but once the game evolves we will see it less and less.
Being a faction (races) based game, some "wannabe" gankers will soon realize that ganking opposite factions will give them almost the same enjoyement but without the penalties of killing your own.
Faction based games, even if you can kill your own, don't have the same level of Ganking (as between same faction players) as true FFA Non-faction ones. The "hate" towards other factions, and having to work toghether against them at a times, lessens the internal fights.
Of course there will be guilds of players playing the PK/Bandit/Against everybody thing but these ones will be the lesser (And I bet a lot of them will roll the same races while other races will be almost ganker free).
I think we will see rampant ganking at first but once the game evolves we will see it less and less. Being a faction (races) based game, some "wannabe" gankers will soon realize that ganking opposite factions will give them almost the same enjoyement but without the penalties of killing your own. Faction based games, even if you can kill your own, don't have the same level of Ganking (as between same faction players) as true FFA Non-faction ones. The "hate" towards other factions, and having to work toghether against them at a times, lessens the internal fights. Of course there will be guilds of players playing the PK/Bandit/Against everybody thing but these ones will be the lesser (And I bet a lot of them will roll the same races while other races will be almost ganker free).
Do you guys honestly think that most of todays players that are interested in a ffa pvp format are all going to behave themselves?
Shadowbane, EVE, Darktide, hell even Sullon, Vallon, and Tallon Zek from EQ were and are filled with people just waiting to get their hands on Darkfall.
If you think ganking isnt going to be be prevalent, youve obviously never played a full on pvp game.
I think we will see rampant ganking at first but once the game evolves we will see it less and less. Being a faction (races) based game, some "wannabe" gankers will soon realize that ganking opposite factions will give them almost the same enjoyement but without the penalties of killing your own. Faction based games, even if you can kill your own, don't have the same level of Ganking (as between same faction players) as true FFA Non-faction ones. The "hate" towards other factions, and having to work toghether against them at a times, lessens the internal fights. Of course there will be guilds of players playing the PK/Bandit/Against everybody thing but these ones will be the lesser (And I bet a lot of them will roll the same races while other races will be almost ganker free).
I disagree, what sounds more fun to you in terms of progressing your characters skills and gear:
Grinding countless mobs
Or going with some pals and taking other peoples gear and thus their hard work.
Do you guys honestly think that most of todays players that are interested in a ffa pvp format are all going to behave themselves? The players are not supposed to behave themselves, that is the point. You will have your PK's that live to player kill and then you wil have your Anti's fighting them at every step. If you don't like getting RPK'ed then you best join up with the Anti/Neutrals and fight the PK's, if you like being able to kill anyone that isn't with your guild/clan/group then join up with the PK's.
Shadowbane, EVE, Darktide, hell even Sullon, Vallon, and Tallon Zek from EQ were and are filled with people just waiting to get their hands on Darkfall. Well I for one can only hope that the old schoolers from these games will be playing.
If you think ganking isnt going to be be prevalent, youve obviously never played a full on pvp game. I don't think "ganking" will be prevalent, and yes I am old school DT so have played a game that is similiar to DF. However from your posts I doubt you have played a FFA game, and if you had it obviously wasn't the right kind of gamestyle, seems you are better suited for the mild PvP games of today where the devs tell you who you are supposed to fight and place rules on your fights.
Do you guys honestly think that most of todays players that are interested in a ffa pvp format are all going to behave themselves? The players are not supposed to behave themselves, that is the point. You will have your PK's that live to player kill and then you wil have your Anti's fighting them at every step. If you don't like getting RPK'ed then you best join up with the Anti/Neutrals and fight the PK's, if you like being able to kill anyone that isn't with your guild/clan/group then join up with the PK's.
Shadowbane, EVE, Darktide, hell even Sullon, Vallon, and Tallon Zek from EQ were and are filled with people just waiting to get their hands on Darkfall. Well I for one can only hope that the old schoolers from these games will be playing.
If you think ganking isnt going to be be prevalent, youve obviously never played a full on pvp game. I don't think "ganking" will be prevalent, and yes I am old school DT so have played a game that is similiar to DF. However from your posts I doubt you have played a FFA game, and if you had it obviously wasn't the right kind of gamestyle, seems you are better suited for the mild PvP games of today where the devs tell you who you are supposed to fight and place rules on your fights.
Well then I doubt your sleuthing skills are up to par mate. I played on Vallon and Sullon Zek in EQ, Sullon being my favorite as there were absolutely no rules and no safe areas. I played DaoC, which not exactly what were talking about, still I thought it was a good pvp game. I played SWG for about a year after release, and did quite a bit of pvping in that venue as well.
My favorite game of all time, which I still play is Shadowbane. Id consider it a decent representation of the ffa spirit. So, if youd like to come run your mouth about how I dont know what FFA is in order to elevate yourself to some 1337 status, Im playing on Thurin in the guild Mad Mercs. Come find me.
So many things seem so appealing about Darkfall. I have read a lot about the game. I have seen some cool videos. However I wonder how will Darkfall not end up just a big gank fest. I solo a lot in mmos and in their description they say play as you want total freedom even be a loner. How will this be possbile with the totally open pvp play. Seems like it will be hard to get anything done. Seems like totally open pvp does not compliment total freedom the way the game is claiming. Can anyone clarify this a bit for me?
To be honest, if you are concerned about it then the game is not for you.
What you might not understand (and many others) is that there are people out there who want an open world to wage war as they see fit. Being ganked is not a big deal as they will grow strong, gather allies and do the same.
So it very well could be a gankfest. But for those players who like this thing, it is a breath of fresh air.
Hey Sovrath, I'll ask for your take on this as well since you've played L2 probably longer than I have... and certainly more consistently since its launch.
I think lowbie ganking outside the relative safety of a city guards aggro range will be prevalent.
Not because "I don't like DF". This isn't about DF in particular, but about open PvP games in general.
In Lineage 2, at launch it was open PvP and the GMs were hands-off in coming to your defense if you were ganked, mob trained, ganged-up on, etc.. regardless of how low level you were, or how high level your assailant was. You were on your own.
L2, too, had harsh penalties for "going red" on someone... guards would attack you, you could be freely killed by any other player just like you were a mob... a very high chance to drop items ("popping like a pinata" was a common phrase in those days). There were plenty of reasons someone would want to avoid going gank crazy.. or so it would seem.
Regardless, there were lowbie/newbie gankers waiting outside starting areas almost all the time. That they were ganking people who couldn't defend themself didn't phase them, going red didn't phase them, the fear of repurcussion didn't phase them.
They didn't care... in fact.. they took pride in being "perma-red". They'd gear themselves in less-than-great gear, leaving more valuable items in their bank so that if they did die and dropped items... no biggie.. nothing of great value was lost.
After a time in L2, even the high level players began to see the problem the lowbie gankers caused... they were driving away new players and the game was becoming top heavy.
In response, many high level players started going after the gankers, who would - predictably - run away or log out at the first sight of danger. Then they'd log back in and go right back to their ganking when the coast was clear. This, to me, was a better response than any that NC could come up with - the players actually taking matters into their own hands.
However, there's a limit to that - players aren't going to spend all their time policing the lower level areas, nor should they have to. They want to work on their own characters as well.
So, a time after that, it seems NC Soft also realized the problem - they were losing subscribers. So, they made changes to at least temper the open-ness of the PvP to make it a bit friendlier to new or otherwise lower players.
Shadowbane... same thing. There are players who thrive on waiting for new players to leave that starting area so they can immediately start ganking them.
So... at the end of the day... the problem is with a certain portion fo the player base who *will* (and you can count on it) do everything in their power to use the openness of a PvP system to make others as miserable as they can.
And the answer "well if they can't handle it, don't play a PvP game" sounds good... Until you realize that the game is suffering the same problem L2 faced early on - a lack of new players sticking around because these people were chasing them away.
There's a difference between "PvP" and "ganking". The former implies a challenge... the latter implies picking on easy targets. Many people enjoy PvP - a challenging fight and may the better player win. Few people enjoy being ganked... basically the (un)willing victim of someone who takes pleasure in the equivalent of one-shotting level 1 mobs all day.
And again... to those who might want to pounce on me as though I'm bashing DF or saying anything negative about it... I'm not.
What I'm saying is that there are going to be players who - no matter what "repercussions" you put in place, in any game, are going to make it their sole purpose to become reasonably powerful, then spend all their time preying on lower/new players. They will because they can.
Penalties will have no effect on them because they have little or no interest in actually engaging in any part of the game that would make those penalties meaningful. Or, they'll have another character with whom they actually play the game... and an "alt" they use for ganking when they're bored.
So... Will ganking be a problem in DF? In my opinion, you can count on it.. at least where lower level and/or new players are concerned.
My suggestion... don't blow it off or be too quick to dismiss the people being ganked as "carebears" when they complain about it. Look at the bigger picture of the long term effect it can have on the game if it's allowed to continue.
Maybe take a page from what happened in L2 - go after the lowbie gankers and get some PvP out of it (of course 'til they run away or log... as they likely will).
It's a noble cause, in my opinion, to help out new players so they can get into the game. And, really.. imagine how impressive it would be to you as a new player to see some higher level players come and take out someone who's been ganking you; players looking after their own, as it were.
There *are* precedents set by other wide-open PvP MMOs that have come before.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Good post WSIMike (didn't quote it... as it was long enough the first time).
One aspect that I am surprised when this subject comes up that hasn't been mentioned is this:
What is going to stop some of the VERY dedicated people who seem to really, really dislike DarkFall from doing exactly what WSIMike has detailed in his post above?
There are obviously some very deep resentments for DarkFall for some people. If they decided to try and drive as many people away after release as possible... that would be one way to do it. It will be something that Aventurine may indeed have to watch out for after release.
Guess we'll all find out when it does finally release.
One question kinda related to that subject as well.
Will those that are on the Free Trial (assuming that they do indeed have one) be able to cause grief tactics around the starting cities? If so, that give a way for those who want to try and bring DarkFall down; a way to do it without even having to spend money on the game.
Good post WSIMike (didn't quote it... as it was long enough the first time).
One aspect that I am surprised when this subject comes up that hasn't been mentioned is this:
What is going to stop some of the VERY dedicated people who seem to really, really dislike DarkFall from doing exactly what WSIMike has detailed in his post above? There are obviously some very deep resentments for DarkFall for some people. If they decided to try and drive as many people away after release as possible... that would be one way to do it. It will be something that Aventurine may indeed have to watch out for after release. Guess we'll all find out when it does finally release.
One question kinda related to that subject as well. Will those that are on the Free Trial (assuming that they do indeed have one) be able to cause grief tactics around the starting cities? If so, that give a way for those who want to try and bring DarkFall down; a way to do it without even having to spend money on the game.
You'll have plenty of griefing tactics from those that like the game....Those that dont like will probably jsut stay away.......FFA PVP games have always attracted alot of jerks......There is little doubt taht there will be non stop ganking and griefing.
Well said Msimike. The abuse of the open pvp system does drive off many players, and players = income, which equals a better game. It's also about the fun factor, I don't know anyone that enjoys being ganked over and over by internet bullies. Some will play the bad guys, having guilds as such, this is a part of ffa gaming .
Creating a balance to keep the fun factor up for these players while keeping joe average, going about his trade skills happy, is going to be fun to watch.
Good post WSIMike (didn't quote it... as it was long enough the first time).
One aspect that I am surprised when this subject comes up that hasn't been mentioned is this:
What is going to stop some of the VERY dedicated people who seem to really, really dislike DarkFall from doing exactly what WSIMike has detailed in his post above? There are obviously some very deep resentments for DarkFall for some people. If they decided to try and drive as many people away after release as possible... that would be one way to do it. It will be something that Aventurine may indeed have to watch out for after release. Guess we'll all find out when it does finally release.
One question kinda related to that subject as well. Will those that are on the Free Trial (assuming that they do indeed have one) be able to cause grief tactics around the starting cities? If so, that give a way for those who want to try and bring DarkFall down; a way to do it without even having to spend money on the game.
You'll have plenty of griefing tactics from those that like the game....Those that dont like will probably jsut stay away.......FFA PVP games have always attracted alot of jerks......There is little doubt taht there will be non stop ganking and griefing.
Griefing =
A griefer is a player who plays a game simply to aggravate and harass other players.
Ganking =
Ganking may involve attacking another player without warning, attacking while the targeted player is already engaged in combat with a non-player character, usually meaning they're distracted and/or their health has been compromised, or attacking where the targeted player is at a high level disadvantage. Ganking is considered a dishonourable practice in MMORPGs, since the ganker is engaging in a battle where he will certainly win, where they might have lost in circumstances where those participating in the PvP (player versus player) combat had equal conditions.
Griefing happens in every MMO, FFA PvP or no PvP at all. It ranges from those taking the mobs your camping to intentionaly get on your nerves to constantly following you around and killing you. This happens in any MMO sorry, DarkFall will be no different. Fortunately the plus side is unlike Non FFA PvP games the griefer has no place to hide and will run into a hard life fast.
Now onto Ganking which people seem overly worried about. People attacking you in an unhonorable way, in a way where they are insured victory. Yes this will happen. Will it be as knee jerkingly bad as some think? No lol not by a long shot atleast not compaired to other FFA PvP games (and some PvP games with safe zones) . The faction system in DFO with it's reward and penalties will lead many to not attack there own faction members and spend most of there time fighting those that are enemies of there faction. While this does promote ganking in a sense it also's decreases it in another. I guess a better way of saying it would be that it focuses it, gives PvP an additional purpose to go along with the full loot.
There's also the issue of how do you know you have a decided advantage over someone? I mean you have no idea how skilled they are as a player for 1, number 2 you have no idea what skills there toon has or what level they are. 3rdly what happens when that seemingly easy target turns out to be bait for a trap. You shoot them with an arrow while hiding, they run, you give chase and finaly corner them in a clearing only to discover yout prey had allies had an ambush setup for you.
In DarkFall yes there is FFA PvP, full loot, yes there will be griefing just like in any MMO, there will be ganking to a lesser degree than what many think, but there will also be fear in that first blow. Do you really want to attack, will you win, or will you end up dead and looted dry.
The world and it's mechanics and features combine to make this a very different game even though it shares mechanics and or features with other MMO's.
So many things seem so appealing about Darkfall. I have read a lot about the game. I have seen some cool videos. However I wonder how will Darkfall not end up just a big gank fest. I solo a lot in mmos and in their description they say play as you want total freedom even be a loner. How will this be possbile with the totally open pvp play. Seems like it will be hard to get anything done. Seems like totally open pvp does not compliment total freedom the way the game is claiming. Can anyone clarify this a bit for me?
Its skill based players can not see what stats you have they wont know if your high skilled or not there is no radar no neon lights above head name wise±'
World is huge there is a alignment system if negative guards will attack you in race towns.
There will be ANTI-PK players.
Newbee players in a party can still be a few vetrans if they know how to fight.
World is huge so after a while when many are deeper into world its not easy for them to say hey lets kill some newbees at starter towns travelling will be long no easy portalling.
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009..... In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
I wont be ganking by myself, Ill be with a group of 10+ people looking for easy prey to take down. Strength is in numbers in ffa pvp. Frankly, my guild wont be looking for fair fights, were looking to farm gear and loot via people as opposed to mobs.
Strength is in numbers in ffa pvp . Ha!
Correction ... Strenght is in numbers in ffa pvp WITH AUTO-ATTACK COMBAT SYSTEMS.
Try you and you 10 friends come to sly me and my 2 buddies.. Would be fun.. Will be fun ..Just make sure u and your 10+ mates carry good gear so i can enjoy variety in looting =]
Let's say i play an elf or human . It makes sense when i encounter an orc for example since the orc is by default my enemy to try to kill him either when hes fighting mobs or he s just running .Its the meaning of pvp by default hes enemy we fight. If we are talking about an orc who is ganging other fellow orcs or humans that kill other humans i call em traitor to their race.. There are also other situations like for example things i enecountered in wow. Despice the fact that i play a night ef hunter there are many elfs humans and dwarves that i would like to attack kill and loot em since we have diferences argue,ments e.t.c.
Comments
Your point would make sense if there was only going to be one server and one server only. Otherwise what does it matter? Your server is gonna fill up with whatever types of players it gets, and the next server will do the same and so on and so forth. You will get good and bad, crafter and explorers etc. The only difference is why cut out a part of the population that wants to play but maybe not to a certain extreme. AC did exactly what I am talking about and it is still around today, going on what 8-10 years. Might not have a HUGE population like some of today's games but still has people that want to play it.
However I cannot agree more that having a consequence for dying made the games of old insanely fun as well as people shouldn't be worrying about "ganking".
Your point would make sense if there was only going to be one server and one server only. Otherwise what does it matter? Your server is gonna fill up with whatever types of players it gets, and the next server will do the same and so on and so forth. You will get good and bad, crafter and explorers etc. The only difference is why cut out a part of the population that wants to play but maybe not to a certain extreme. AC did exactly what I am talking about and it is still around today, going on what 8-10 years. Might not have a HUGE population like some of today's games but still has people that want to play it.
However I cannot agree more that having a consequence for dying made the games of old insanely fun as well as people shouldn't be worrying about "ganking".
You're correct. However I guess the issue is a little less obvious. I used to suffer from what I am about to say as well (basically, I'm not pointing fingers at anyone specifically). Every game is not for everyone. There, I said it.
Seriously, I know how it is, when you see a new game, it looks really cool, has all sorts of features you really really want and then you read it has feature X and you feel completely let down because it clashes with your style.
The first thing that happens is you get upset, you feel like something has been taken from you. The second (for most) is they lash out, be it in complaining on the forums, talking the game down to their friends, etc. And usually the third is they try it anyway and then get pissed all over again because it's not the game they want, they quit in disgust and tell everyone how crappy of a game it is.
This isn't the fault of the developer, it's the fault of the player. Again, not every game is for everyone. I really want a lot out of this game myself and if it doesn't have what I want, I'll be disappointed and I'll jump ship to the next thing. It'd be great to say DF will be for all types of players, that everyone will love it. But the fact is, you can't make everyone happy and by focusing on a specific area, they won't make everyone happy, but those that ARE happy with that area, will be very happy and stick around.
Will those numbers be enough to keep the lights on? Who knows, we'll find out eventually though.
-Trekkan
Just For Fun Gaming
WWW.JFFGAMING.COM
UO released in what late 97, sure it was a PvP game. Hell at that time that was all you got or could get, so noone really knew any different. Fast forward a year or so later and EQ and AC released offering both FFA and Regular servers, hell one could say Trammel was UO's way of keeping people that finally had choices as far as not having to FFA. Just speculation on my part of course. So for pre-trammel you had options, AC, EQ and UO. UO was not necessarily unique because it had both in the same game, it might of been the first but not unique by any stretch of the imagination. AC on regular servers also had hardcore PvP'ers and Carebears occupying the same world. As far as "Carebears" not having anywhere else to go, they weren't necessarily carebears. Since there was only one game offering one thing they were all simply PvPers, of varying extremes but still PvPers. The carebear aspect didn't arrive until games came out offering the choice of which type of gameplay you wanted.
It could easily happen again, while you can probably never remake the great games of the past you can create a game based on the mechanics. Today's games say you cannot go here cause it is to scary and dangerous, or you have to play this class and that is all you will ever be, or we will tell you who your enemy is etc. DF can easily do it again, by simply offering a choice of server types like AC did. Regular servers where you can choose to go RED or stay WHITE, or making it so if you die you don't drop your loot or incur a death penalty of any kind, and then a hardcore/extreme where you are always RED and do drop loot and/or incur death penalties. I always thought that developers should treat their regular and PvP servers as two different entities, and adjust the content accordingly. It might be time consuming and expensive but think it would be cheaper than having to make a new game.
I did reread your post and it became obvious that you were talking about the time frame from UO live until EQ and AC launched. So my reponse was a tad skewed as it wasn't geared towards the specific time frame which made it a bit off base, my apologies. I am also no expert on UO or EQ as I never played and I am guessing at the time frames, but think they are pretty close. I do enjoy bumping into other MMO dinosaurs that remember the glory days, and am glad that I will have the opportunity to play against them in a game like we all knew and loved.
Just for a point of reference :
UO released Sept. 1997
---- Trammel/Felucca split was in May 2000
Many say it was due to the shrinking population that both AC and EQ were stealing away from UO. This gave UO a way to compete for those subscribers who wanted to stay in the UO world, but didn't like the forced PvP aspect.
EQ released March 1999
AC released Nov. 1999
DAoC released Oct. 2001
Has nothing at all do with the game isn't for everyone, the game is being sold as a FFA game. FFA does not mean full loot, or death penalties or anything else, is simply means Free For All. There will be no faction on faction like games do today, and you are free to do what you want, go anywhere you want. In order for DF to succeed it will have to reach X amount of subs, it would be foolish for them to say ah hell why have 1 million subs by catering to all the PvP crowd when we can get by on 500k. Your post makes no sense, if you are one that prefers harsh/extreme PvP like me then you'll play on that server, others might want a tad milder. It has nothing to do with the game isn't for them, that issue only applies for people that don't want any kind of FFA life. Like I mentioned it has been done before and proven to work. It wouldn't take much coding at all to have the regular servers have less to no loot drop or a lesser death penalty, while keep the extreme ones at or near whatever max they have. In the FFA crowd there are varying degrees of players and what kind of PvP they look for.
The "Its not for you" argument only works for those players that prefer PvE types of games or completely benign PvP with no risk or consequences.
@Xzyax
That is my thought on Trammel, UO had to do something to offer a style of gameplay to those that could get it in EQ or AC. Back in the day there were only a finite amount of gamers and between the 3 you pretty much encompassed all of them, so you couldn't ignore a segment of your games population. Today it doesn't matter so much as there are more games than players it seems, ok that is a stretch.
It won't just be a pure gank fest, but there will definately be ganking. My guild is a PK/pirate guild who will be playing as bad guys, so obviously we will be doing a lot of ganking/player killing.. that isn't all there is to the game though.
It will become a gankfest. EVERY free-for-all PVP game I have ever played has become a gankfest, and factions will not stop it.
Heck, even certain death at the hands of NPC guards will not stop it; I had a friend who was building up his lowbie ship and mining in the safe zone of EVE and people came to gank him even though they were subsequently blasted by the NPC guard ships.
Trust me, this game likely will be a gankfest. Now some will love this. Carebears might leave in disappointment. Just my prediction.
So your whole basis is that it will be a gankfest becuase every game that had FFA in it that you played was a gankfest and your only example is that one time your friend got ganked in EVE? LoL Maybe you should of used some examples of games you actually played. All I can say is god I hope its a gankfest the likes of which have not been seen since the days of Darktide, I will be sorely disappointed if the game world is just like WoW and WAR PvP worlds. Also since you can apparently tell the future how bout shooting me the mega million lotto numbers.
In order for it to be a gankfest, as you call it, you would have to have over 50% of the population doing nothing but ganking non-stop on every single server. Hmmm I am thinking that won't happen, there will be PK guilds, Anti guilds and Neutral guilds just like every other FFA game.
I see where he's comming from with, what's preventing a full world pvp game from becoming a gankfest, simply because the immaturity of the community? And I agree, this often does happen in games who don't take the proper measures to impliment a system, without limiting freedom.
thankfully, I think the alignment system, coupled with only being able to have one character per server will suffice. Though of course there will be a few players who simply are extremly low alignment, and live exlusivly in their clan city and have minimal interaction with other players aside from killing them. But I believe a majority will be deturred from doing so , because they are forced to live with the consequences.
I played EvE for several months and I never got attacked by another player once.
Anyway how about providing a list of all of the FFA PvP games you have played and also perhaps explain why we should trust you?
ps. I like the way you begin your post with "It will become a gankfest" and you end it with "this game will likely be a gankfest".
So your whole basis is that it will be a gankfest becuase every game that had FFA in it that you played was a gankfest and your only example is that one time your friend got ganked in EVE? LoL Maybe you should of used some examples of games you actually played. All I can say is god I hope its a gankfest the likes of which have not been seen since the days of Darktide, I will be sorely disappointed if the game world is just like WoW and WAR PvP worlds. Also since you can apparently tell the future how bout shooting me the mega million lotto numbers.
In order for it to be a gankfest, as you call it, you would have to have over 50% of the population doing nothing but ganking non-stop on every single server. Hmmm I am thinking that won't happen, there will be PK guilds, Anti guilds and Neutral guilds just like every other FFA game.
I may not be a mad dog type PKer, but I want the game world to be as dangerous as possible, because I love the thrill of threat and (hopefully) winning out over that threat in games, but no this game won't be a all out all the time perpetual 'gankfest'. I'm with Splixx on this.
The term 'gankfest' is obviously a negative one chosen to hurt this game's reputation even more, but yes, the world will be full of active and aggressive PvP. Thank god.
I figure in the end it will just boil down to roaming mobs of greifers looking for some poor sucker fighting a NPC and ganking his ass from behind before he knows what hit him. That has turned out to be the case in every FFA PvP game I have ever seen at least. Time wil tell though.
BTW Eve has safe zones so yes in that game it is possible to never PvP. In DAoC it was RvR not open PvP ( except for Mordrid server) you could only PvP in certain areas so that worked. Maybe DF will have a something similar, maybe not. Like I said time will tell
I miss DAoC
I think we will see rampant ganking at first but once the game evolves we will see it less and less.
Being a faction (races) based game, some "wannabe" gankers will soon realize that ganking opposite factions will give them almost the same enjoyement but without the penalties of killing your own.
Faction based games, even if you can kill your own, don't have the same level of Ganking (as between same faction players) as true FFA Non-faction ones. The "hate" towards other factions, and having to work toghether against them at a times, lessens the internal fights.
Of course there will be guilds of players playing the PK/Bandit/Against everybody thing but these ones will be the lesser (And I bet a lot of them will roll the same races while other races will be almost ganker free).
Do you guys honestly think that most of todays players that are interested in a ffa pvp format are all going to behave themselves?
Shadowbane, EVE, Darktide, hell even Sullon, Vallon, and Tallon Zek from EQ were and are filled with people just waiting to get their hands on Darkfall.
If you think ganking isnt going to be be prevalent, youve obviously never played a full on pvp game.
I disagree, what sounds more fun to you in terms of progressing your characters skills and gear:
Grinding countless mobs
Or going with some pals and taking other peoples gear and thus their hard work.
Why farm mobs when you can farm people?
Well then I doubt your sleuthing skills are up to par mate. I played on Vallon and Sullon Zek in EQ, Sullon being my favorite as there were absolutely no rules and no safe areas. I played DaoC, which not exactly what were talking about, still I thought it was a good pvp game. I played SWG for about a year after release, and did quite a bit of pvping in that venue as well.
My favorite game of all time, which I still play is Shadowbane. Id consider it a decent representation of the ffa spirit. So, if youd like to come run your mouth about how I dont know what FFA is in order to elevate yourself to some 1337 status, Im playing on Thurin in the guild Mad Mercs. Come find me.
To be honest, if you are concerned about it then the game is not for you.
What you might not understand (and many others) is that there are people out there who want an open world to wage war as they see fit. Being ganked is not a big deal as they will grow strong, gather allies and do the same.
So it very well could be a gankfest. But for those players who like this thing, it is a breath of fresh air.
Hey Sovrath, I'll ask for your take on this as well since you've played L2 probably longer than I have... and certainly more consistently since its launch.
I think lowbie ganking outside the relative safety of a city guards aggro range will be prevalent.
Not because "I don't like DF". This isn't about DF in particular, but about open PvP games in general.
In Lineage 2, at launch it was open PvP and the GMs were hands-off in coming to your defense if you were ganked, mob trained, ganged-up on, etc.. regardless of how low level you were, or how high level your assailant was. You were on your own.
L2, too, had harsh penalties for "going red" on someone... guards would attack you, you could be freely killed by any other player just like you were a mob... a very high chance to drop items ("popping like a pinata" was a common phrase in those days). There were plenty of reasons someone would want to avoid going gank crazy.. or so it would seem.
Regardless, there were lowbie/newbie gankers waiting outside starting areas almost all the time. That they were ganking people who couldn't defend themself didn't phase them, going red didn't phase them, the fear of repurcussion didn't phase them.
They didn't care... in fact.. they took pride in being "perma-red". They'd gear themselves in less-than-great gear, leaving more valuable items in their bank so that if they did die and dropped items... no biggie.. nothing of great value was lost.
After a time in L2, even the high level players began to see the problem the lowbie gankers caused... they were driving away new players and the game was becoming top heavy.
In response, many high level players started going after the gankers, who would - predictably - run away or log out at the first sight of danger. Then they'd log back in and go right back to their ganking when the coast was clear. This, to me, was a better response than any that NC could come up with - the players actually taking matters into their own hands.
However, there's a limit to that - players aren't going to spend all their time policing the lower level areas, nor should they have to. They want to work on their own characters as well.
So, a time after that, it seems NC Soft also realized the problem - they were losing subscribers. So, they made changes to at least temper the open-ness of the PvP to make it a bit friendlier to new or otherwise lower players.
Shadowbane... same thing. There are players who thrive on waiting for new players to leave that starting area so they can immediately start ganking them.
So... at the end of the day... the problem is with a certain portion fo the player base who *will* (and you can count on it) do everything in their power to use the openness of a PvP system to make others as miserable as they can.
And the answer "well if they can't handle it, don't play a PvP game" sounds good... Until you realize that the game is suffering the same problem L2 faced early on - a lack of new players sticking around because these people were chasing them away.
There's a difference between "PvP" and "ganking". The former implies a challenge... the latter implies picking on easy targets. Many people enjoy PvP - a challenging fight and may the better player win. Few people enjoy being ganked... basically the (un)willing victim of someone who takes pleasure in the equivalent of one-shotting level 1 mobs all day.
And again... to those who might want to pounce on me as though I'm bashing DF or saying anything negative about it... I'm not.
What I'm saying is that there are going to be players who - no matter what "repercussions" you put in place, in any game, are going to make it their sole purpose to become reasonably powerful, then spend all their time preying on lower/new players. They will because they can.
Penalties will have no effect on them because they have little or no interest in actually engaging in any part of the game that would make those penalties meaningful. Or, they'll have another character with whom they actually play the game... and an "alt" they use for ganking when they're bored.
So... Will ganking be a problem in DF? In my opinion, you can count on it.. at least where lower level and/or new players are concerned.
My suggestion... don't blow it off or be too quick to dismiss the people being ganked as "carebears" when they complain about it. Look at the bigger picture of the long term effect it can have on the game if it's allowed to continue.
Maybe take a page from what happened in L2 - go after the lowbie gankers and get some PvP out of it (of course 'til they run away or log... as they likely will).
It's a noble cause, in my opinion, to help out new players so they can get into the game. And, really.. imagine how impressive it would be to you as a new player to see some higher level players come and take out someone who's been ganking you; players looking after their own, as it were.
There *are* precedents set by other wide-open PvP MMOs that have come before.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Good post WSIMike (didn't quote it... as it was long enough the first time).
One aspect that I am surprised when this subject comes up that hasn't been mentioned is this:
What is going to stop some of the VERY dedicated people who seem to really, really dislike DarkFall from doing exactly what WSIMike has detailed in his post above?
There are obviously some very deep resentments for DarkFall for some people. If they decided to try and drive as many people away after release as possible... that would be one way to do it. It will be something that Aventurine may indeed have to watch out for after release.
Guess we'll all find out when it does finally release.
One question kinda related to that subject as well.
Will those that are on the Free Trial (assuming that they do indeed have one) be able to cause grief tactics around the starting cities? If so, that give a way for those who want to try and bring DarkFall down; a way to do it without even having to spend money on the game.
You'll have plenty of griefing tactics from those that like the game....Those that dont like will probably jsut stay away.......FFA PVP games have always attracted alot of jerks......There is little doubt taht there will be non stop ganking and griefing.
Well said Msimike. The abuse of the open pvp system does drive off many players, and players = income, which equals a better game. It's also about the fun factor, I don't know anyone that enjoys being ganked over and over by internet bullies. Some will play the bad guys, having guilds as such, this is a part of ffa gaming .
Creating a balance to keep the fun factor up for these players while keeping joe average, going about his trade skills happy, is going to be fun to watch.
You'll have plenty of griefing tactics from those that like the game....Those that dont like will probably jsut stay away.......FFA PVP games have always attracted alot of jerks......There is little doubt taht there will be non stop ganking and griefing.
Griefing =
A griefer is a player who plays a game simply to aggravate and harass other players.
Ganking =
Ganking may involve attacking another player without warning, attacking while the targeted player is already engaged in combat with a non-player character, usually meaning they're distracted and/or their health has been compromised, or attacking where the targeted player is at a high level disadvantage. Ganking is considered a dishonourable practice in MMORPGs, since the ganker is engaging in a battle where he will certainly win, where they might have lost in circumstances where those participating in the PvP (player versus player) combat had equal conditions.
Griefing happens in every MMO, FFA PvP or no PvP at all. It ranges from those taking the mobs your camping to intentionaly get on your nerves to constantly following you around and killing you. This happens in any MMO sorry, DarkFall will be no different. Fortunately the plus side is unlike Non FFA PvP games the griefer has no place to hide and will run into a hard life fast.
Now onto Ganking which people seem overly worried about. People attacking you in an unhonorable way, in a way where they are insured victory. Yes this will happen. Will it be as knee jerkingly bad as some think? No lol not by a long shot atleast not compaired to other FFA PvP games (and some PvP games with safe zones) . The faction system in DFO with it's reward and penalties will lead many to not attack there own faction members and spend most of there time fighting those that are enemies of there faction. While this does promote ganking in a sense it also's decreases it in another. I guess a better way of saying it would be that it focuses it, gives PvP an additional purpose to go along with the full loot.
There's also the issue of how do you know you have a decided advantage over someone? I mean you have no idea how skilled they are as a player for 1, number 2 you have no idea what skills there toon has or what level they are. 3rdly what happens when that seemingly easy target turns out to be bait for a trap. You shoot them with an arrow while hiding, they run, you give chase and finaly corner them in a clearing only to discover yout prey had allies had an ambush setup for you.
In DarkFall yes there is FFA PvP, full loot, yes there will be griefing just like in any MMO, there will be ganking to a lesser degree than what many think, but there will also be fear in that first blow. Do you really want to attack, will you win, or will you end up dead and looted dry.
The world and it's mechanics and features combine to make this a very different game even though it shares mechanics and or features with other MMO's.
Its skill based players can not see what stats you have they wont know if your high skilled or not there is no radar no neon lights above head name wise±'
World is huge there is a alignment system if negative guards will attack you in race towns.
There will be ANTI-PK players.
Newbee players in a party can still be a few vetrans if they know how to fight.
World is huge so after a while when many are deeper into world its not easy for them to say hey lets kill some newbees at starter towns travelling will be long no easy portalling.
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009.....
In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
Strength is in numbers in ffa pvp . Ha!
Correction ... Strenght is in numbers in ffa pvp WITH AUTO-ATTACK COMBAT SYSTEMS.
Try you and you 10 friends come to sly me and my 2 buddies.. Would be fun.. Will be fun ..Just make sure u and your 10+ mates carry good gear so i can enjoy variety in looting =]
Let's say i play an elf or human . It makes sense when i encounter an orc for example since the orc is by default my enemy to try to kill him either when hes fighting mobs or he s just running .Its the meaning of pvp by default hes enemy we fight. If we are talking about an orc who is ganging other fellow orcs or humans that kill other humans i call em traitor to their race.. There are also other situations like for example things i enecountered in wow. Despice the fact that i play a night ef hunter there are many elfs humans and dwarves that i would like to attack kill and loot em since we have diferences argue,ments e.t.c.