Just wondering...........XP-boosters = Fluff? I alway's thought pure cosmetic visuals are considered fluff, paintings, new visuals on your armor/weapons sort of things, but I never thought that regardless you can get xp boosters just by playing the game never thought something like it would be considered fluff as to me a person who is BUYING xp boosters for real life cash WILL in fact have a advantage over those who do not BUY them. And thought that fluff was not about getting advantage over other players in terms of actuall gameplay. So fluff has now a broader meaning?
Yes, believe it or not, an XP booster IS just fluff.
Ask yourself: why do you play MMO games? Presumably most people will answer "To have fun". For some that will entail actually playing through and enjoying all the content that has been written over the years for this game, while other (perhaps more casual) gamers would rather fast-track through that to see what the (potentially more challenging or engaging) end content has to offer.
Cute RP clothing aside, all SOE are really offering their players is the option of how they want to play their games. Once at the level cap XP becomes a moot point, and is certainly not a determining factor in how competitive a player is in PvP (raid gear, and skill/experience playing the game are what really count). This is not going to give anyone any kind of 'advantage' in the game. It's just a fast-forward button for those who can't be bothered with the journey, or for those who are put off from playing these older games by the thought that they're going to be so far behind the curve of the existing community. Guild Wars had this feature in from day one (the ability to make a max-level toon for some quick PvP action) and it's worked fine... certainly it has done nothing to unbalance the game or detract from the enjoyment of those who chose to take the longer road to the top.
So why is it that every time Sony does anything even remotely contentious or innovative in this stagnant genre (for better or worse) there's this unprecedented kneejerk reaction from their gaming community? Out come the pitchforks and flaming torches, and mob mentality takes over. It's become fashionable to hate SOE and attribute them the role of 'villain' in the MMOsphere, but the truth is many will embrace these changes and many more will choose to ignore them and go about their gaming lives unaffected by them.
The sky is not falling. More than anything, I pity those who decide to stop playing a game they love simply through some misguided sense of moral outrage or social injustice. At the end of the day they're mostly hurting themselves.
I felt I asked a legit question, didn't know my question would be seen as The Sky Is Falling.
Just wondering...........XP-boosters = Fluff? I alway's thought pure cosmetic visuals are considered fluff, paintings, new visuals on your armor/weapons sort of things, but I never thought that regardless you can get xp boosters just by playing the game never thought something like it would be considered fluff as to me a person who is BUYING xp boosters for real life cash WILL in fact have a advantage over those who do not BUY them. And thought that fluff was not about getting advantage over other players in terms of actuall gameplay. So fluff has now a broader meaning?
[see below]
I felt I asked a legit question, didn't know my question would be seen as The Sky Is Falling.
You're right, it was unfair of me to direct all of what I said specifically at you. Perhaps I should have clarified:
@ Reklaw:
Yes, believe it or not, an XP booster IS just fluff.
Ask yourself: why do you play MMO games? Presumably most people will answer "To have fun". For some that will entail actually playing through and enjoying all the content that has been written over the years for this game, while other (perhaps more casual) gamers would rather fast-track through that to see what the (potentially more challenging or engaging) end content has to offer.
Cute RP clothing aside, all SOE are really offering their players is the option of how they want to play their games. Once at the level cap XP becomes a moot point, and is certainly not a determining factor in how competitive a player is in PvP (raid gear, and skill/experience playing the game are what really count). This is not going to give anyone any kind of 'advantage' in the game. It's just a fast-forward button for those who can't be bothered with the journey, or for those who are put off from playing these older games by the thought that they're going to be so far behind the curve of the existing community. Guild Wars had this feature in from day one (the ability to make a max-level toon for some quick PvP action) and it's worked fine... certainly it has done nothing to unbalance the game or detract from the enjoyment of those who chose to take the longer road to the top.
@ the hundred SOE flame threads on this forum alone:
So why is it that every time Sony does anything even remotely contentious or innovative in this stagnant genre (for better or worse) there's this unprecedented kneejerk reaction from their gaming community? Out come the pitchforks and flaming torches, and mob mentality takes over. It's become fashionable to hate SOE and attribute them the role of 'villain' in the MMOsphere, but the truth is many will embrace these changes and many more will choose to ignore them and go about their gaming lives unaffected by them.
The sky is not falling. More than anything, I pity those who decide to stop playing a game they love simply through some misguided sense of moral outrage or social injustice. At the end of the day they're mostly hurting themselves.
Yes, believe it or not, an XP booster IS just fluff.
Ask yourself: why do you play MMO games? Presumably most people will answer "To have fun". For some that will entail actually playing through and enjoying all the content that has been written over the years for this game, while other (perhaps more casual) gamers would rather fast-track through that to see what the (potentially more challenging or engaging) end content has to offer.
Cute RP clothing aside, all SOE are really offering their players is the option of how they want to play their games. Once at the level cap XP becomes a moot point, and is certainly not a determining factor in how competitive a player is in PvP (raid gear, and skill/experience playing the game are what really count). This is not going to give anyone any kind of 'advantage' in the game. It's just a fast-forward button for those who can't be bothered with the journey, or for those who are put off from playing these older games by the thought that they're going to be so far behind the curve of the existing community. Guild Wars had this feature in from day one (the ability to make a max-level toon for some quick PvP action) and it's worked fine... certainly it has done nothing to unbalance the game or detract from the enjoyment of those who chose to take the longer road to the top.
So why is it that every time Sony does anything even remotely contentious or innovative in this stagnant genre (for better or worse) there's this unprecedented kneejerk reaction from their gaming community? Out come the pitchforks and flaming torches, and mob mentality takes over. It's become fashionable to hate SOE and attribute them the role of 'villain' in the MMOsphere, but the truth is many will embrace these changes and many more will choose to ignore them and go about their gaming lives unaffected by them.
The sky is not falling. More than anything, I pity those who decide to stop playing a game they love simply through some misguided sense of moral outrage or social injustice. At the end of the day they're mostly hurting themselves.
For you it might be fluff, for others it is not.
Everyone plays the game differently.
Fact is, that a very large part of the community in EverQuest 2 are Roleplayers in one form or the other.
Hence the reason that Antonia Bayle (RP server) is basically the only EQ2 server left with a High population.
These people value these so called Fluff items a great deal!
In fact, they have been asking for more cosmetical armor sets, cloaks, etc. More House items, more cute pets, whatever for a long long time.
There are a jitload of dedicated EQ2 players out there that don't give a toss about Endgame Raiding, but spending almost their entire time questing and searching to collecting these fluff items to make their character look unique and have a tremendous fun and go to great lengths in decorating their ingame houses!
So for all these people this actually is a great deal!
These people want to play the game to earn and get these fluff items and not being forced to buy them with real money on top of their subscription fees!
---------------------------
And again, more important is all the deceiving and lies and secrecy that has gone on around this Cash Shop!
SOE knew most EQ2 players are against it! As you know the discussions around Station Exchange that caused John Smedly himself to post in the official forums to calm people down by promissing them that this kind of crap would never be done to the non-exchange servers!
So much for a promise isn't?
So much for a morale and customer serving way of implementing this?
Right after the major expansion pack (to maximise it sales) and then stealth patch it in without their paying customers consent!
Even worse, they are trying to justify their actions by saying they did an ingame survey about this and that this was what the majority wanted! A survey no one had heard of nor ever seen! Just another bullshit lie.
So it's not just this Cash Shop system, but it's how it has been pushed through our troats in a sick and scamming way!
Just how it was done with the NGE in Star Wars Galaxies back then! That's why I was referring to it! It's DeJaVu all over again!
Originally posted by Guillermo197 For you it might be fluff, for others it is not. Everyone plays the game differently. Fact is, that a very large part of the community in EverQuest 2 are Roleplayers in one form or the other. Hence the reason that Antonia Bayle (RP server) is basically the only EQ2 server left with a High population. These people value these so called Fluff items a great deal! In fact, they have been asking for more cosmetical armor sets, cloaks, etc. More House items, more cute pets, whatever for a long long time. There are a jitload of dedicated EQ2 players out there that don't give a toss about Endgame Raiding, but spending almost their entire time questing and searching to collecting these fluff items to make their character look unique and have a tremendous fun and go to great lengths in decorating their ingame houses! So for all these people this actually is a great deal! These people want to play the game to earn and get these fluff items and not being forced to buy them with real money on top of their subscription fees! --------------------------- And again, more important is all the deceiving and lies and secrecy that has gone on around this Cash Shop! SOE knew most EQ2 players are against it! As you know the discussions around Station Exchange that caused John Smedly himself to post in the official forums to calm people down by promissing them that this kind of crap would never be done to the non-exchange servers! So much for a promise isn't? So much for a morale and customer serving way of implementing this? Right after the major expansion pack (to maximise it sales) and then stealth patch it in without their paying customers consent! Even worse, they are trying to justify their actions by saying they did an ingame survey about this and that this was what the majority wanted! A survey no one had heard of nor ever seen! Just another bullshit lie. So it's not just this Cash Shop system, but it's how it has been pushed through our troats in a sick and scamming way! Just how it was done with the NGE in Star Wars Galaxies back then! That's why I was referring to it! It's DeJaVu all over again!
Cheers
You raise two points here which are quite different from the XP issue I was talking about, which deserve to be addressed separately.
1. SOE's community management
Can't argue with you here, Sony has once again managed to pull off a PR disaster of NGE proportions. In this case the substance of what they've actually implemented (in my opinion, as I've discussed previously and will further below) is not nearly as game-altering as many believe it to be. Nonetheless, the ham-fisted mishandling of community information and expectations, and the outright dishonesty, is something that once again Sony will be made to suffer for.
2. The value of "Fluff" items
Not being an EQ1/2 player myself I'll have to take your word for the passion the RP community feels towards this form of content, though to be honest it wouldn't surprise me in the least. I also don't know the finer details of Sony's planned implementation of the new microtransactional content. I guess how much it impacts on the game will depend on whether the newly available items (or whatever) will still be released as general in-game content that can still be quested for as well, or whether it will be purely and exclusively available in the item stores. If it's the latter then I would concede that I have probably underestimated the negative effect of Sony's actions. However if there is still the option to discover these items within the game, and the item store is just another 'shortcut' which players can use (to effectively bypass all the quest content involved in finding said items, just like the XP buffs) then I don't see it as nearly so much of a problem... once again it's something that individuals can chose whether or not to participate, depending on their play style. In fact, the incentive of potential extra revenue on SOE's part might well spur them to work harder towards creating more of this type of new content that the playerbase has been asking for, something they probably wouldn't have done otherwise - a win for everyone potentially.
Edit: The impact of these store-bought items is also dependent on whether the RP'ers in these games do in fact form "a very large part of the community" as you claim. It's easy to overestimate the importance and universality of one's own preferences, where in fact in most MMO games the RP community forms only a relatively small (albeit vocal) minority of the population. It could be different for EQ1/2, but without any tangible evidence I'm not really convinced that the changes, even if only available through item stores, will have as widespread an effect as you believe they will.
You raise two points here which are quite different from the XP issue I was talking about, which deserve to be addressed separately.
1. SOE's community management
Can't argue with you here, Sony has once again managed to pull off a PR disaster of NGE proportions. In this case the substance of what they've actually implemented (in my opinion, as I've discussed previously and will further below) is not nearly as game-altering as many believe it to be. Nonetheless, the ham-fisted mishandling of community information and expectations, and the outright dishonesty, is something that once again Sony will be made to suffer for.
2. The value of "Fluff" items
Not being an EQ1/2 player myself I'll have to take your word for the passion the RP community feels towards this form of content, though to be honest it wouldn't surprise me in the least. I also don't know the finer details of Sony's planned implementation of the new microtransactional content. I guess how much it impacts on the game will depend on whether the newly available items (or whatever) will still be released as general in-game content that can still be quested for as well, or whether it will be purely and exclusively available in the item stores. If it's the latter then I would concede that I have probably underestimated the negative effect of Sony's actions. However if there is still the option to discover these items within the game, and the item store is just another 'shortcut' which players can use (to effectively bypass all the quest content involved in finding said items, just like the XP buffs) then I don't see it as nearly so much of a problem... once again it's something that individuals can chose whether or not to participate, depending on their play style. In fact, the incentive of potential extra revenue on SOE's part might well spur them to work harder towards creating more of this type of new content that the playerbase has been asking for, something they probably wouldn't have done otherwise - a win for everyone potentially.
Edit: The impact of these store-bought items is also dependent on whether the RP'ers in these games do in fact form "a very large part of the community" as you claim. It's easy to overestimate the importance and universality of one's own preferences, where in fact in most MMO games the RP community forms only a relatively small (albeit vocal) minority of the population. It could be different for EQ1/2, but without any tangible evidence I'm not really convinced that the changes, even if only available through item stores, will have as widespread an effect as you believe they will.
On your point 2:
SOE already started with making ingame items exclusively for Legends of Norrath loot cards.
So it is already happening since LoN was introduced.
The only difference with LoN is that card decks and booster packs drop in the game and so you have a chance to get them in the game by playing.
Ofcourse the chance of a boosterpack to drop is practically ZERO (altho you have some lucky people that run into a boosterpack now and then, be it that we talk about insane grinders here) and even more ZERO chance in getting the actual loot card.
The items offered on the Cash Shop are already exclusive for the Cash shop alone. Except the XP potions. But the AA poitions are exclusive (altho I myself and many others dont give a rat's rear end about these pots).
SOE is not stupid (well in a big way they actually are) and will make sure these items offered on the Cash Shop are exclusive to get maximum profit out of it.
___________________________
Edit: The impact of these store-bought items is also dependent on whether the RP'ers in these games do in fact form "a very large part of the community" as you claim. It's easy to overestimate the importance and universality of one's own preferences, where in fact in most MMO games the RP community forms only a relatively small (albeit vocal) minority of the population. It could be different for EQ1/2, but without any tangible evidence I'm not really convinced that the changes, even if only available through item stores, will have as widespread an effect as you believe they will.
___________________________
EverQuest 2 has the largest RP community of any game out there at the moment.
I was in a large RP guild myself on EU server splitpaw. A server wich I know has some other very large RP guilds as well.
But official RP server Antonia Bayle is the only High Populated server in EverQuest 2 at the moment and has a very large and dedicated RP community on that server.
You are right that in most other games the RP community is relatively small.
But the greatness of EverQuest 2 is the fact that it's THE BEST MMO game out there atm when it comes to offering a great RP environment.
It's all the fluff items and features it has. Great animations (chars looking at eachother and such), appearance slots with all kinds of cosmetic clothing and items. One of the best housing features (altho SWG pre-NGE is still the best), etc.
That's why the RP community within EverQuest 2 is one of the largest.
Before EverQuest 2 it was EverQuest 1 and Star Wars Galaxies who had the large RP communities. Especially Star Wars Galaxies. SWG still had the best community ever back then!
No other MMO till this day has been able to match the awesomeness of the old SWG community.
SWG didn't had any endgame! The community made the endgame themselves with RP events, Housing events, Player City events, the famous Rancor hunt events, etc.
That is why so many people are still upset and emotional about it till this day. People are still searching for the same feeling they had with old SWG and there isn't any.
Just wondering...........XP-boosters = Fluff? I alway's thought pure cosmetic visuals are considered fluff, paintings, new visuals on your armor/weapons sort of things, but I never thought that regardless you can get xp boosters just by playing the game never thought something like it would be considered fluff as to me a person who is BUYING xp boosters for real life cash WILL in fact have a advantage over those who do not BUY them. And thought that fluff was not about getting advantage over other players in terms of actuall gameplay. So fluff has now a broader meaning?
[see below]
I felt I asked a legit question, didn't know my question would be seen as The Sky Is Falling.
The sky is not falling. More than anything, I pity those who decide to stop playing a game they love simply through some misguided sense of moral outrage or social injustice. At the end of the day they're mostly hurting themselves.
I left EQ2 after SoE introduced the LON-cards because i am against playing with people who feel the need to use RL cash to get going in a game. Now seeying Smedley introduced a cash shop it's proof to me that i made the right decision. No it's not hurting myself because i enjoyed playing other mmorpg games. It did hurt SoE neither i guess besides not getting any money from me and my wife any longer.
If you think using RL cash in a game is normal that's ok but it's because of people like you this get's introduced. Enjoy your way of gaming. There is a reason that most SoE games hardly get 300k customers or more. The people have spoken.
So the sky has fallen? Nope but a lot of people are no longer providing SoE with their money and a lot of people won't be touching anything SoE provides.
It's no secret that Sony has a horrible reputation in both the Music and gaming industry as a huge, greedy and cold corporation. As experienced MMO gamers we all know the stories about SWG and so on, so this comes as no surprise, but yet by the amount of posts and anger this thread has generated this has still hit a nerve with those of us who do not play SOE games any longer.
Many of us understand that this is a business for these companies and it's all about making dollars. I am surprised that more companies do not offer discounted monthly fees to boost their player base and revenue instead of the milking approach. What sucks for me is that I loved eq & eq2 and I only left because of low server populations. I find SOE games for some reason have some of the friendliest communities in the MMO world, CoH notwithstanding. I very much found the opposite with WAR and WOW and I assume it may have something to do with PvP players vs. PVE. That's just a guess.
Alas, I find that the current state of MMO's is saturated and bleak. I find that none of the games that I have tried have a world with such colour and vastness as that of the old eq1 Norrath, nor do they have the race/class variety and freedom. With SOE sinking to even deeper lows my hopes of someday seeing eq3 (not Vanguard which I liked and left for the same reason as stated before) fades as I am not sure I could ever play another Soe MMO.
As a final thought, another sad thing I have noticed over the years is how rude we all are to one another both in game and on forums such as this one. We need to stop blasting everyone who has a different opinion with rudeness and try to focus on more positive feedback. Just my two cents worth.
It's no secret that Sony has a horrible reputation in both the Music and gaming industry as a huge, greedy and cold corporation. As experienced MMO gamers we all know the stories about SWG and so on, so this comes as no surprise, but yet by the amount of posts and anger this thread has generated this has still hit a nerve with those of us who do not play SOE games any longer.
Many of us understand that this is a business for these companies and it's all about making dollars. I am surprised that more companies do not offer discounted monthly fees to boost their player base and revenue instead of the milking approach. What sucks for me is that I loved eq & eq2 and I only left because of low server populations. I find SOE games for some reason have some of the friendliest communities in the MMO world, CoH notwithstanding. I very much found the opposite with WAR and WOW and I assume it may have something to do with PvP players vs. PVE. That's just a guess.
Alas, I find that the current state of MMO's is saturated and bleak. I find that none of the games that I have tried have a world with such colour and vastness as that of the old eq1 Norrath, nor do they have the race/class variety and freedom. With SOE sinking to even deeper lows my hopes of someday seeing eq3 (not Vanguard which I liked and left for the same reason as stated before) fades as I am not sure I could ever play another Soe MMO.
As a final thought, another sad thing I have noticed over the years is how rude we all are to one another both in game and on forums such as this one. We need to stop blasting everyone who has a different opinion with rudeness and try to focus on more positive feedback. Just my two cents worth.
QFT! Very well written.
I really like the Devs on EverQuest 2. They are a great bunch who have put soul and heart in their game and still do.
EverQuest 2 is still one of the best PVE MMO's out there and offers the most features anyone can have and wish for in an MMO.
It's people like John Smedly who continue to screw over his customerbase with this kind of crap most people don't want in the game they are now playing. In this case EverQuest 2.
People have spoken LOUDLY when Station Exchange was introduced.
People have spoken LOUDLY when Legends of Norrath was introduced.
Yet all that is ignored by Mr. Smedly and he pushed this Cash Shop in a sneaky, secret scamming way through people's throats!
It's not only about the Cash Shop. It's about how and the way they have done it. Just like they did with the NGE.
So instead of bringing the playerbase more together and rake in more players to increase the population. They now make even more people quit the game, hurt the ingame population... just so they can rake in some extra $$$.
Well I canceled my station account. This pretty much is the death nell of SOE. At least until Sony finally wises up and cans Smedley. The ability for someone to buy their way to success is just appalling to many of us.
Hope SOE's games tank big time. No excuse for greedy producers who can't draw the line on a dispicable practices.
This just moves Smedley into the most despicable character in the genre.
And to anyone saying this RMT stuff is just fluff, I have one word for you B.LLS.T.
I was trialing EQ2, but after seeing this, pots to level faster and etc? this trial is over for me, and no chance of ever subscribing, the game is excelent, the best i tried for months but i wont play a game with this kind of policy
"They already did it with Legends of Norrath. That started innocent too with just loot cards containing useless fluff stuff. Now look at what the loot cards have today!" LON loot cards are still fluff items. What items on Legends of Norrath are a "must have." Its illusions, house items, mounts and cloaks. Apparently, you dont know anything of what you speak in regards to that statement. "Me, nor my gf nor any of my friends, nor any other people I know ingame, nor any people on the official forums have ever heard of this survey nor seen it!" I remember it. I just took another one recently. If something as minor as this causes you this much pain, where you feel its as big a deal as the NGE, I feel sorry for you. The items are crap, which has been said already. Hell, you can go look for yourself. These items will probably never be as good as LON loot cards, because it will take alot of business from that game. These items are probably items that didnt make the LON loot card table. The rejects. Why let em go to waste. All these complaints make me laugh.
You really don't get it do you?
You know wich part of playerbase is keeping EverQuest 2 afloat these days? It's sertainly not the hardcore raiders thats for sure.
They reside on the only High Pop server left... Antonia Bayle.
It's the Roleplayers.
A lot of people, and especially them actually do like these fluff items. They do like Cosmetic Armor sets. They do like these pets. They do like all these house items.
Items that used to be offered as rewards in events and special quests! You know... content that was actually fun!
If you had any idea or maybe actually playing this game, then you would have also known and seen all these housing and guild hall decorating contests that have taken place.
They have been asking for more of these so called Fluff items for a very long time and were never heard.
So you might not care about this Cash Shop and appearently it does not affect your gameplay (yet).
But for the LOYAL part of the EverQuest 2 playerbase this Cash Shop with all the items they have been graving for, is a HUGE slap in their face!
So don't you dare to tell me I don't know what I am talking about!
The Legends of Norrath loot cards give rare mounts, rare cloaks, jewelry, crafting specific items, etc lately. They are not all that fluff and crap anymore.
Ofcourse you do not need them. You can just run around naked in the game or just in the standard crafted or quest gear and just completely forget about the INGAME feature called appearence slots.
Ofcourse you do not have to use the INGAME feature called housing.
Rare mounts from LoN loot cards of the same quality as 12 platinum equivalent mount in the game is not fluff to me.
Since Legends of Norrath no so called fluff items have been added for free anymore to the game.
And now with the Cash Shop you can forget this will ever be added for free again. As why would they? They can now ask money for it!
And if you think it will all stay innocent and fluff only (altho the AA potions aren't fluff in many people's eyes), then you are very very naive.
I will tell you that within a year these cash shops will have turned into fully fledged Item Malls! You can count on it, as that's the direction SOE wants to go all along.
Only doing it on existing games, while they always said they would never do it, is just plain wrong and actually for many it does feel like a DeJaVu with the NGE back in SWG!
It's an alteration in game design! And it's also the way they have done it!
If this was really what the majority of the playerbase wanted, then they didn't have to be secretive about it and STEALTH patch it directly into live!
Ever thought about that?
Ofcourse not! But it's people like you that cause companies like SOE to continue getting away with crap like this.
Cheers
You make these statements and say I dont get it? You're making assumptions on something that hasnt happened yet. They havent added anything good to the Station Cash thing, yet. For all you know, they may never add anything good to it, and Station Cash may not last long at all.
The items on Station Marketplace are crap, if you think ppl have been "graving" these items, then you definately dont know what you're talking about. All you can get is a few house pets, some armor thats in game with one of the shoulders missing, some potions, and cosmetic pets. Yep, sorry, your right, thats what everybody wants, you're pretty good at knowing what ppl want, huh?
And LON, you're still crying about that. Yes, you can get Mounts, Cloaks, jewelry, and tradskill specific items, but its still fluff. The mounts are only 50%, while the fastest mounts are 52% soon to be 65%. These dont matter much, unless you want that specific look for your mount. 12 platinum is not hard to get. The cloaks, hell, they look really nice, and have some nice "fluff" abilities, but thats it. The jewelry/tradeskill stuff is nice, but nothing needed.
Now back to the cash shop, ur saying that SOE wants to turn Station Cash into a full fledged item mall. Well, Im sure you wouldnt make these claims, unless you had proof, right? Lets see it.
Alteration in game design? HAHAHAHA! Are you serious?
Stealth patched? Okay, I can see where this would look like them trying to pull a fast one on ya, but if it was better concept, with better items, then I would agree with you on this. But its all garbage. I personally see this as them testing it on everyone, not just the Test Server.
I agree that these items should be acquired through quests and ingame money instead of the real life cash. I also feel (and hope) that this will never take off. But, these small additions, dont effect my gameplay. It isnt changing combat or the leveling system, nothing ingame atm is being changed to make way for this Station Cash garbage, so Ill continue to enjoy EQ2.
Just wondering...........XP-boosters = Fluff? I alway's thought pure cosmetic visuals are considered fluff, paintings, new visuals on your armor/weapons sort of things, but I never thought that regardless you can get xp boosters just by playing the game never thought something like it would be considered fluff as to me a person who is BUYING xp boosters for real life cash WILL in fact have a advantage over those who do not BUY them. And thought that fluff was not about getting advantage over other players in terms of actuall gameplay. So fluff has now a broader meaning?
for better or worse, leveling in EQII is so easy and fast that XP pots are fluff.
oh and selling items is nothing new to EQII. I have all kinds of special house items and pets that I had to "buy". They have promos all the time where you have to buy this or that mag and you get such and such item for free. you have to buy the boxed version to get the mount. if you buy the download, you don't get the mount. adventure packs come with items. blah blah blah
oh and they give you some station cash to start with so everyone can buy one of the pets or what ever you want. I bought the slimy pet which is a little blue blob that sits on the floor an does nothing. The RoK pet is much cooler.
And they have been adding new craft items since the launch of LoN. My main toon is a carpenter.
There are so many items already in the game through vet awards, adventure packs, expansions, promo offers, and LoN that come through purchases that I fail to see how this acutally changes anything.
In COH, the costumes are the most prized part of the game. you can earn pieces through all kinds of quests. When they added costume sets for purchase, there wasn't a player revolt. I don't see how this is any different than what many games offer which is a bunch of extra crap if you are stupid enough to cough up a few bucks. big deal
we all hate SOE blah blah blah SOE is the root of all MMO evil blah blah blah
Why do so many people not see the big picture. Can SOE add more and more powerful items to the store, yes. They started in Everquest already to test the waters. Did they add RMT to their games after they said it hurt the games, yes.
Most important is the change to the game design process now. Remember all those quests and rewards that offered fluff items? Well now it is in the best intereste of SOE to SELL THOSE ITEMS instead of putting them in the game as rewards for doing something that seems like a foreign concept to Sony, by actually playing the game.
Think about that. It serves SOE better to NOT put content in the game that you can earn, but instead that you can only purchase.
Where does the playerbase actually come ahead in any of this? How much will it take before this actually affects you, because it will happen. This is the company that screws its playerbase over time and time again.
That's exactly how I feel about it. I have re subbed in september to experience the Halloween and Christmas events because I've always missed them before. My December payment has already gone though so I can't take it back, but SOE won't be getting more from me.
Fluff items are no big deal people? Well excuse me but I have never cared for stats in games, I care for looks, I am a fluff player and this announcement means that if I want new fluff items I no longer have to participate in a contest or do some quests, I have to spend MORE of my cash, on top of a monthly sub and payment for each expansion.
No Way. Buh bye SOE, I have actually suported you and defended you on occasion, but no more. I am truly sad to say that. And I'm not bitching because it's SOE if NCsoft puts this crap in Aion at release or some time later, they'll get the same reaction.
Oh also in that email they sent out it says they added the cash shop BASED ON PLAYER FEEDBACK, and they are giving us what we asked for and wanted. WHAT? I don't ever recalled being asked if a cash shop was a good idea, NOT EVER. Thanks for lying to me via email.
But it is true MMO's have been doing this kinda of stuff for a while... If you want to get a special mount or some special in game fluff that can only be had if you spend an extra 40 bucks to get the special edition box. So not only are you paying for the expansion/game/content now you are paying about 40 bucks more for a mount.... or some in game fluff. If you ask me THATs a rip off.... 40+ buck for a fluff mount/item....
I see this Cash Store failing just as bad as the Adventure Packs.
O yeah
Cynthe
"Oh also in that email they sent out it says they added the cash shop BASED ON PLAYER FEEDBACK, and they are giving us what we asked for and wanted. WHAT? I don't ever recalled being asked if a cash shop was a good idea, NOT EVER. Thanks for lying to me via email"
I think that in game survey they had about a week ago (i didnt take it myself) but was told it was talked about in there. And yes.... sadly i know someone who did vote yes on it. But then again it doesnt suprise me, this guy spent almost 75 buck on a rare LoN in-game loot card. Said he feels SOE would give him a better deal then he has been getting from the ppl with ingame loot cards that he wants.....
I see this Cash Store failing just as bad as the Adventure Packs. O yeah Cynthe "Oh also in that email they sent out it says they added the cash shop BASED ON PLAYER FEEDBACK, and they are giving us what we asked for and wanted. WHAT? I don't ever recalled being asked if a cash shop was a good idea, NOT EVER. Thanks for lying to me via email" I think that in game survey they had about a week ago (i didnt take it myself) but was told it was talked about in there. And yes.... sadly i know someone who did vote yes on it. But then again it doesnt suprise me, this guy spent almost 75 buck on a rare LoN in-game loot card. Said he feels SOE would give him a better deal then he has been getting from the ppl with ingame loot cards that he wants.....
Oh the Adventure packs, those are the reasons I left the game in the first place, they pissed me off so much. ><
Obviously I missed that survey, and I'm guessing other players who have other MMOs on the go, or other games, probably did too. But ONE week to code all of that? Really? No way, it was already in the works and they already wanted to push it to live, the survey and this little email we got on the 9th was to cover their butts. Also I have an email since I got the announcement ,why not email the survey? If they REALLY cared about numbers? Unless I missed that too.
I see this Cash Store failing just as bad as the Adventure Packs. O yeah Cynthe "Oh also in that email they sent out it says they added the cash shop BASED ON PLAYER FEEDBACK, and they are giving us what we asked for and wanted. WHAT? I don't ever recalled being asked if a cash shop was a good idea, NOT EVER. Thanks for lying to me via email" I think that in game survey they had about a week ago (i didnt take it myself) but was told it was talked about in there. And yes.... sadly i know someone who did vote yes on it. But then again it doesnt suprise me, this guy spent almost 75 buck on a rare LoN in-game loot card. Said he feels SOE would give him a better deal then he has been getting from the ppl with ingame loot cards that he wants.....
Oh the Adventure packs, those are the reasons I left the game in the first place, they pissed me off so much. ><
Obviously I missed that survey, and I'm guessing other players who have other MMOs on the go, or other games, probably did too. But ONE week to code all of that? Really? No way, it was already in the works and they already wanted to push it to live, the survey and this little email we got on the 9th was to cover their butts. Also I have an email since I got the announcement ,why not email the survey? If they REALLY cared about numbers? Unless I missed that too.
:S
Lol dont feel bad only reason i knew about it was because i was bored one night and i was reading up on some of the new lore on EQ2 and i ran across this
I saw the survey via the EQII Launcher, but didn't take it. I have to agree with Cynthe that this survey is in no way the reason why the cash (cow) shop has been introduced, as the development time just isn't sufficient to get it all done.
For me the introduction of this is wrong because of the "fairness" aspect, in that those with more money can have more things than those without the RL cash. I prefer a level playing field where everyone has the same chances. And yes I know there are arguments about how some players can spare more time so RL cash makes it fairer, but that argument is so obviously flawed that I hope most folks have stopped listening to it.
The introduction of this will probably make me quit the game, but not just because of the RL cash aspect. The other side of this (and things like LoN) is that work that needs to be done on the base game is not being done. Examples: From a crafting aspect there are bugs on armour and thaumaturgy reaction arts that have been needing attention for 10 months now (and must be a simple fix as the other crafting arts are working fine). There are upgrades needed to shields, bows and charms that are long over due. The list of bugs affecting summoner pets seems to be increasing. The bugs where mobs disappear into the landscape appear on the increase too. Heck, there are just so, so many things in the base game that need addressing that seeing devs disappear to do these other things (so called fluff) is just soul destroying to someone who wants to actually play the game (as opposed to standing around say "coo look at me I am so rich in RL I can look like this"! ) in an enjoyable manner.
This is my decision. It's not a black and white case of this is right or wrong. It's a case of this change (on top of the others) is wrong for me, and so it's time for me to make a stand and stop funding these changes.
I cancelled my EQ2 sub some months ago, and nothing I've heard about the latest expansion makes it tempting to resub. Therefore, I decided to wait till next expansion to decide if EQ2 is something for me to come back to or not. With this new crap, the final decision was easy to make.
My opposition to this scheme, which resulted in my cancelling of all current SOE accounts, is because I believe this is the first and substantial step in the direction of ugly content.
Content, gameplay, customization, and virtual worlds designed around these payment schemes to get more of our money in addition to the money fee.
Many (many) of us MMORPG gamers (knowns as MMORPG consumers to them) will not tolerate this.
Nickel and Diming has been the SOE way for as long as I can remember.
How many times have we heard about content that was supposed to be added to the existing game - for no additional cost - but was instead added as an expansion? I know I've seen several over the years - across all SOE's games (their own at least). SOE sees a way to milk the players a little more... so they do it.
The Adventure Packs - another way to nickel-and-dime for content that many other companies provide via normal content updates.... at no additional cost. SOE sees a way to milk the players a little more... so they do it.
The LoN deal... once again... SOE sees a way to milk the players a little more... so they do it.
While other MMO companies are combatting RMT in one form or another... SOE embraces it by implementing Station Exchange. SOE sees a way to milk the players a little more... so they do it.
And now the item shops which, once again, after saying it wouldn't happen, the Smedster turns around and does it anyway... reprising the "blame it on the players" routine from the NGE trainwreck to justify it.
Before this, the only time I have ever seen an item shop implemented into a MMORPG has been one that is otherwise free to play. That has always been the distinction. Normal pay-to-play MMOs provide everything in the context of the game, included with the monthly sub. Free to play MMOs implement item shops as an alternative way to make money, by providing items that, when you really look at how some of them actually effect gameplay (it's not always immediately obvious), are *not* merely "fluff".
So once again, SOE is a "pioneer" in finding new ways to milk their customers for every penny they can.
I wonder what's next.
Whatever it is, we can all be sure of one thing...
If it's a way for SOE to milk the players a little more... they'll do it.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I have no problem with the implemention of another business model into an MMO already running. Just let grinders their XP-pots, let RPers their RP-clothes. They should have it, if they want to pay for it. Doesn't matter at all.
What really hits my nerve is yet another Dollar-Euro crap.
100SC = $1.00 = €1,00
Did I miss something? Why are Europeans supposed to pay roughly 35% more?
Even with 17% VAT it's just 0.85 Euro-cents.
So tell me, why the same service, the same virtual good - that doesn't even cost shipping - should be worth more in Europe. Thats just plain ripoff.
Comments
Yes, believe it or not, an XP booster IS just fluff.
Ask yourself: why do you play MMO games? Presumably most people will answer "To have fun". For some that will entail actually playing through and enjoying all the content that has been written over the years for this game, while other (perhaps more casual) gamers would rather fast-track through that to see what the (potentially more challenging or engaging) end content has to offer.
Cute RP clothing aside, all SOE are really offering their players is the option of how they want to play their games. Once at the level cap XP becomes a moot point, and is certainly not a determining factor in how competitive a player is in PvP (raid gear, and skill/experience playing the game are what really count). This is not going to give anyone any kind of 'advantage' in the game. It's just a fast-forward button for those who can't be bothered with the journey, or for those who are put off from playing these older games by the thought that they're going to be so far behind the curve of the existing community. Guild Wars had this feature in from day one (the ability to make a max-level toon for some quick PvP action) and it's worked fine... certainly it has done nothing to unbalance the game or detract from the enjoyment of those who chose to take the longer road to the top.
So why is it that every time Sony does anything even remotely contentious or innovative in this stagnant genre (for better or worse) there's this unprecedented kneejerk reaction from their gaming community? Out come the pitchforks and flaming torches, and mob mentality takes over. It's become fashionable to hate SOE and attribute them the role of 'villain' in the MMOsphere, but the truth is many will embrace these changes and many more will choose to ignore them and go about their gaming lives unaffected by them.
The sky is not falling. More than anything, I pity those who decide to stop playing a game they love simply through some misguided sense of moral outrage or social injustice. At the end of the day they're mostly hurting themselves.
I felt I asked a legit question, didn't know my question would be seen as The Sky Is Falling.
[see below]
I felt I asked a legit question, didn't know my question would be seen as The Sky Is Falling.
You're right, it was unfair of me to direct all of what I said specifically at you. Perhaps I should have clarified:
@ Reklaw:
Yes, believe it or not, an XP booster IS just fluff.
Ask yourself: why do you play MMO games? Presumably most people will answer "To have fun". For some that will entail actually playing through and enjoying all the content that has been written over the years for this game, while other (perhaps more casual) gamers would rather fast-track through that to see what the (potentially more challenging or engaging) end content has to offer.
Cute RP clothing aside, all SOE are really offering their players is the option of how they want to play their games. Once at the level cap XP becomes a moot point, and is certainly not a determining factor in how competitive a player is in PvP (raid gear, and skill/experience playing the game are what really count). This is not going to give anyone any kind of 'advantage' in the game. It's just a fast-forward button for those who can't be bothered with the journey, or for those who are put off from playing these older games by the thought that they're going to be so far behind the curve of the existing community. Guild Wars had this feature in from day one (the ability to make a max-level toon for some quick PvP action) and it's worked fine... certainly it has done nothing to unbalance the game or detract from the enjoyment of those who chose to take the longer road to the top.
@ the hundred SOE flame threads on this forum alone:
So why is it that every time Sony does anything even remotely contentious or innovative in this stagnant genre (for better or worse) there's this unprecedented kneejerk reaction from their gaming community? Out come the pitchforks and flaming torches, and mob mentality takes over. It's become fashionable to hate SOE and attribute them the role of 'villain' in the MMOsphere, but the truth is many will embrace these changes and many more will choose to ignore them and go about their gaming lives unaffected by them.
The sky is not falling. More than anything, I pity those who decide to stop playing a game they love simply through some misguided sense of moral outrage or social injustice. At the end of the day they're mostly hurting themselves.
Yes, believe it or not, an XP booster IS just fluff.
Ask yourself: why do you play MMO games? Presumably most people will answer "To have fun". For some that will entail actually playing through and enjoying all the content that has been written over the years for this game, while other (perhaps more casual) gamers would rather fast-track through that to see what the (potentially more challenging or engaging) end content has to offer.
Cute RP clothing aside, all SOE are really offering their players is the option of how they want to play their games. Once at the level cap XP becomes a moot point, and is certainly not a determining factor in how competitive a player is in PvP (raid gear, and skill/experience playing the game are what really count). This is not going to give anyone any kind of 'advantage' in the game. It's just a fast-forward button for those who can't be bothered with the journey, or for those who are put off from playing these older games by the thought that they're going to be so far behind the curve of the existing community. Guild Wars had this feature in from day one (the ability to make a max-level toon for some quick PvP action) and it's worked fine... certainly it has done nothing to unbalance the game or detract from the enjoyment of those who chose to take the longer road to the top.
So why is it that every time Sony does anything even remotely contentious or innovative in this stagnant genre (for better or worse) there's this unprecedented kneejerk reaction from their gaming community? Out come the pitchforks and flaming torches, and mob mentality takes over. It's become fashionable to hate SOE and attribute them the role of 'villain' in the MMOsphere, but the truth is many will embrace these changes and many more will choose to ignore them and go about their gaming lives unaffected by them.
The sky is not falling. More than anything, I pity those who decide to stop playing a game they love simply through some misguided sense of moral outrage or social injustice. At the end of the day they're mostly hurting themselves.
For you it might be fluff, for others it is not.
Everyone plays the game differently.
Fact is, that a very large part of the community in EverQuest 2 are Roleplayers in one form or the other.
Hence the reason that Antonia Bayle (RP server) is basically the only EQ2 server left with a High population.
These people value these so called Fluff items a great deal!
In fact, they have been asking for more cosmetical armor sets, cloaks, etc. More House items, more cute pets, whatever for a long long time.
There are a jitload of dedicated EQ2 players out there that don't give a toss about Endgame Raiding, but spending almost their entire time questing and searching to collecting these fluff items to make their character look unique and have a tremendous fun and go to great lengths in decorating their ingame houses!
So for all these people this actually is a great deal!
These people want to play the game to earn and get these fluff items and not being forced to buy them with real money on top of their subscription fees!
---------------------------
And again, more important is all the deceiving and lies and secrecy that has gone on around this Cash Shop!
SOE knew most EQ2 players are against it! As you know the discussions around Station Exchange that caused John Smedly himself to post in the official forums to calm people down by promissing them that this kind of crap would never be done to the non-exchange servers!
So much for a promise isn't?
So much for a morale and customer serving way of implementing this?
Right after the major expansion pack (to maximise it sales) and then stealth patch it in without their paying customers consent!
Even worse, they are trying to justify their actions by saying they did an ingame survey about this and that this was what the majority wanted! A survey no one had heard of nor ever seen! Just another bullshit lie.
So it's not just this Cash Shop system, but it's how it has been pushed through our troats in a sick and scamming way!
Just how it was done with the NGE in Star Wars Galaxies back then! That's why I was referring to it! It's DeJaVu all over again!
Cheers
You raise two points here which are quite different from the XP issue I was talking about, which deserve to be addressed separately.
1. SOE's community management
Can't argue with you here, Sony has once again managed to pull off a PR disaster of NGE proportions. In this case the substance of what they've actually implemented (in my opinion, as I've discussed previously and will further below) is not nearly as game-altering as many believe it to be. Nonetheless, the ham-fisted mishandling of community information and expectations, and the outright dishonesty, is something that once again Sony will be made to suffer for.
2. The value of "Fluff" items
Not being an EQ1/2 player myself I'll have to take your word for the passion the RP community feels towards this form of content, though to be honest it wouldn't surprise me in the least. I also don't know the finer details of Sony's planned implementation of the new microtransactional content. I guess how much it impacts on the game will depend on whether the newly available items (or whatever) will still be released as general in-game content that can still be quested for as well, or whether it will be purely and exclusively available in the item stores. If it's the latter then I would concede that I have probably underestimated the negative effect of Sony's actions. However if there is still the option to discover these items within the game, and the item store is just another 'shortcut' which players can use (to effectively bypass all the quest content involved in finding said items, just like the XP buffs) then I don't see it as nearly so much of a problem... once again it's something that individuals can chose whether or not to participate, depending on their play style. In fact, the incentive of potential extra revenue on SOE's part might well spur them to work harder towards creating more of this type of new content that the playerbase has been asking for, something they probably wouldn't have done otherwise - a win for everyone potentially.
Edit: The impact of these store-bought items is also dependent on whether the RP'ers in these games do in fact form "a very large part of the community" as you claim. It's easy to overestimate the importance and universality of one's own preferences, where in fact in most MMO games the RP community forms only a relatively small (albeit vocal) minority of the population. It could be different for EQ1/2, but without any tangible evidence I'm not really convinced that the changes, even if only available through item stores, will have as widespread an effect as you believe they will.
You raise two points here which are quite different from the XP issue I was talking about, which deserve to be addressed separately.
1. SOE's community management
Can't argue with you here, Sony has once again managed to pull off a PR disaster of NGE proportions. In this case the substance of what they've actually implemented (in my opinion, as I've discussed previously and will further below) is not nearly as game-altering as many believe it to be. Nonetheless, the ham-fisted mishandling of community information and expectations, and the outright dishonesty, is something that once again Sony will be made to suffer for.
2. The value of "Fluff" items
Not being an EQ1/2 player myself I'll have to take your word for the passion the RP community feels towards this form of content, though to be honest it wouldn't surprise me in the least. I also don't know the finer details of Sony's planned implementation of the new microtransactional content. I guess how much it impacts on the game will depend on whether the newly available items (or whatever) will still be released as general in-game content that can still be quested for as well, or whether it will be purely and exclusively available in the item stores. If it's the latter then I would concede that I have probably underestimated the negative effect of Sony's actions. However if there is still the option to discover these items within the game, and the item store is just another 'shortcut' which players can use (to effectively bypass all the quest content involved in finding said items, just like the XP buffs) then I don't see it as nearly so much of a problem... once again it's something that individuals can chose whether or not to participate, depending on their play style. In fact, the incentive of potential extra revenue on SOE's part might well spur them to work harder towards creating more of this type of new content that the playerbase has been asking for, something they probably wouldn't have done otherwise - a win for everyone potentially.
Edit: The impact of these store-bought items is also dependent on whether the RP'ers in these games do in fact form "a very large part of the community" as you claim. It's easy to overestimate the importance and universality of one's own preferences, where in fact in most MMO games the RP community forms only a relatively small (albeit vocal) minority of the population. It could be different for EQ1/2, but without any tangible evidence I'm not really convinced that the changes, even if only available through item stores, will have as widespread an effect as you believe they will.
On your point 2:
SOE already started with making ingame items exclusively for Legends of Norrath loot cards.
So it is already happening since LoN was introduced.
The only difference with LoN is that card decks and booster packs drop in the game and so you have a chance to get them in the game by playing.
Ofcourse the chance of a boosterpack to drop is practically ZERO (altho you have some lucky people that run into a boosterpack now and then, be it that we talk about insane grinders here) and even more ZERO chance in getting the actual loot card.
The items offered on the Cash Shop are already exclusive for the Cash shop alone. Except the XP potions. But the AA poitions are exclusive (altho I myself and many others dont give a rat's rear end about these pots).
SOE is not stupid (well in a big way they actually are) and will make sure these items offered on the Cash Shop are exclusive to get maximum profit out of it.
___________________________
Edit: The impact of these store-bought items is also dependent on whether the RP'ers in these games do in fact form "a very large part of the community" as you claim. It's easy to overestimate the importance and universality of one's own preferences, where in fact in most MMO games the RP community forms only a relatively small (albeit vocal) minority of the population. It could be different for EQ1/2, but without any tangible evidence I'm not really convinced that the changes, even if only available through item stores, will have as widespread an effect as you believe they will.
___________________________
EverQuest 2 has the largest RP community of any game out there at the moment.
I was in a large RP guild myself on EU server splitpaw. A server wich I know has some other very large RP guilds as well.
But official RP server Antonia Bayle is the only High Populated server in EverQuest 2 at the moment and has a very large and dedicated RP community on that server.
You are right that in most other games the RP community is relatively small.
But the greatness of EverQuest 2 is the fact that it's THE BEST MMO game out there atm when it comes to offering a great RP environment.
It's all the fluff items and features it has. Great animations (chars looking at eachother and such), appearance slots with all kinds of cosmetic clothing and items. One of the best housing features (altho SWG pre-NGE is still the best), etc.
That's why the RP community within EverQuest 2 is one of the largest.
Before EverQuest 2 it was EverQuest 1 and Star Wars Galaxies who had the large RP communities. Especially Star Wars Galaxies. SWG still had the best community ever back then!
No other MMO till this day has been able to match the awesomeness of the old SWG community.
SWG didn't had any endgame! The community made the endgame themselves with RP events, Housing events, Player City events, the famous Rancor hunt events, etc.
That is why so many people are still upset and emotional about it till this day. People are still searching for the same feeling they had with old SWG and there isn't any.
Cheers
[see below]
I felt I asked a legit question, didn't know my question would be seen as The Sky Is Falling.
The sky is not falling. More than anything, I pity those who decide to stop playing a game they love simply through some misguided sense of moral outrage or social injustice. At the end of the day they're mostly hurting themselves.
I left EQ2 after SoE introduced the LON-cards because i am against playing with people who feel the need to use RL cash to get going in a game. Now seeying Smedley introduced a cash shop it's proof to me that i made the right decision. No it's not hurting myself because i enjoyed playing other mmorpg games. It did hurt SoE neither i guess besides not getting any money from me and my wife any longer.
If you think using RL cash in a game is normal that's ok but it's because of people like you this get's introduced. Enjoy your way of gaming. There is a reason that most SoE games hardly get 300k customers or more. The people have spoken.
So the sky has fallen? Nope but a lot of people are no longer providing SoE with their money and a lot of people won't be touching anything SoE provides.
It's no secret that Sony has a horrible reputation in both the Music and gaming industry as a huge, greedy and cold corporation. As experienced MMO gamers we all know the stories about SWG and so on, so this comes as no surprise, but yet by the amount of posts and anger this thread has generated this has still hit a nerve with those of us who do not play SOE games any longer.
Many of us understand that this is a business for these companies and it's all about making dollars. I am surprised that more companies do not offer discounted monthly fees to boost their player base and revenue instead of the milking approach. What sucks for me is that I loved eq & eq2 and I only left because of low server populations. I find SOE games for some reason have some of the friendliest communities in the MMO world, CoH notwithstanding. I very much found the opposite with WAR and WOW and I assume it may have something to do with PvP players vs. PVE. That's just a guess.
Alas, I find that the current state of MMO's is saturated and bleak. I find that none of the games that I have tried have a world with such colour and vastness as that of the old eq1 Norrath, nor do they have the race/class variety and freedom. With SOE sinking to even deeper lows my hopes of someday seeing eq3 (not Vanguard which I liked and left for the same reason as stated before) fades as I am not sure I could ever play another Soe MMO.
As a final thought, another sad thing I have noticed over the years is how rude we all are to one another both in game and on forums such as this one. We need to stop blasting everyone who has a different opinion with rudeness and try to focus on more positive feedback. Just my two cents worth.
QFT! Very well written.
I really like the Devs on EverQuest 2. They are a great bunch who have put soul and heart in their game and still do.
EverQuest 2 is still one of the best PVE MMO's out there and offers the most features anyone can have and wish for in an MMO.
It's people like John Smedly who continue to screw over his customerbase with this kind of crap most people don't want in the game they are now playing. In this case EverQuest 2.
People have spoken LOUDLY when Station Exchange was introduced.
People have spoken LOUDLY when Legends of Norrath was introduced.
Yet all that is ignored by Mr. Smedly and he pushed this Cash Shop in a sneaky, secret scamming way through people's throats!
It's not only about the Cash Shop. It's about how and the way they have done it. Just like they did with the NGE.
So instead of bringing the playerbase more together and rake in more players to increase the population. They now make even more people quit the game, hurt the ingame population... just so they can rake in some extra $$$.
Cheers
Well I canceled my station account. This pretty much is the death nell of SOE. At least until Sony finally wises up and cans Smedley. The ability for someone to buy their way to success is just appalling to many of us.
Hope SOE's games tank big time. No excuse for greedy producers who can't draw the line on a dispicable practices.
This just moves Smedley into the most despicable character in the genre.
And to anyone saying this RMT stuff is just fluff, I have one word for you B.LLS.T.
I was trialing EQ2, but after seeing this, pots to level faster and etc? this trial is over for me, and no chance of ever subscribing, the game is excelent, the best i tried for months but i wont play a game with this kind of policy
You really don't get it do you?
You know wich part of playerbase is keeping EverQuest 2 afloat these days? It's sertainly not the hardcore raiders thats for sure.
They reside on the only High Pop server left... Antonia Bayle.
It's the Roleplayers.
A lot of people, and especially them actually do like these fluff items. They do like Cosmetic Armor sets. They do like these pets. They do like all these house items.
Items that used to be offered as rewards in events and special quests! You know... content that was actually fun!
If you had any idea or maybe actually playing this game, then you would have also known and seen all these housing and guild hall decorating contests that have taken place.
They have been asking for more of these so called Fluff items for a very long time and were never heard.
So you might not care about this Cash Shop and appearently it does not affect your gameplay (yet).
But for the LOYAL part of the EverQuest 2 playerbase this Cash Shop with all the items they have been graving for, is a HUGE slap in their face!
So don't you dare to tell me I don't know what I am talking about!
The Legends of Norrath loot cards give rare mounts, rare cloaks, jewelry, crafting specific items, etc lately. They are not all that fluff and crap anymore.
Ofcourse you do not need them. You can just run around naked in the game or just in the standard crafted or quest gear and just completely forget about the INGAME feature called appearence slots.
Ofcourse you do not have to use the INGAME feature called housing.
Rare mounts from LoN loot cards of the same quality as 12 platinum equivalent mount in the game is not fluff to me.
Since Legends of Norrath no so called fluff items have been added for free anymore to the game.
And now with the Cash Shop you can forget this will ever be added for free again. As why would they? They can now ask money for it!
And if you think it will all stay innocent and fluff only (altho the AA potions aren't fluff in many people's eyes), then you are very very naive.
I will tell you that within a year these cash shops will have turned into fully fledged Item Malls! You can count on it, as that's the direction SOE wants to go all along.
Only doing it on existing games, while they always said they would never do it, is just plain wrong and actually for many it does feel like a DeJaVu with the NGE back in SWG!
It's an alteration in game design! And it's also the way they have done it!
If this was really what the majority of the playerbase wanted, then they didn't have to be secretive about it and STEALTH patch it directly into live!
Ever thought about that?
Ofcourse not! But it's people like you that cause companies like SOE to continue getting away with crap like this.
Cheers
You make these statements and say I dont get it? You're making assumptions on something that hasnt happened yet. They havent added anything good to the Station Cash thing, yet. For all you know, they may never add anything good to it, and Station Cash may not last long at all.
The items on Station Marketplace are crap, if you think ppl have been "graving" these items, then you definately dont know what you're talking about. All you can get is a few house pets, some armor thats in game with one of the shoulders missing, some potions, and cosmetic pets. Yep, sorry, your right, thats what everybody wants, you're pretty good at knowing what ppl want, huh?
And LON, you're still crying about that. Yes, you can get Mounts, Cloaks, jewelry, and tradskill specific items, but its still fluff. The mounts are only 50%, while the fastest mounts are 52% soon to be 65%. These dont matter much, unless you want that specific look for your mount. 12 platinum is not hard to get. The cloaks, hell, they look really nice, and have some nice "fluff" abilities, but thats it. The jewelry/tradeskill stuff is nice, but nothing needed.
Now back to the cash shop, ur saying that SOE wants to turn Station Cash into a full fledged item mall. Well, Im sure you wouldnt make these claims, unless you had proof, right? Lets see it.
Alteration in game design? HAHAHAHA! Are you serious?
Stealth patched? Okay, I can see where this would look like them trying to pull a fast one on ya, but if it was better concept, with better items, then I would agree with you on this. But its all garbage. I personally see this as them testing it on everyone, not just the Test Server.
I agree that these items should be acquired through quests and ingame money instead of the real life cash. I also feel (and hope) that this will never take off. But, these small additions, dont effect my gameplay. It isnt changing combat or the leveling system, nothing ingame atm is being changed to make way for this Station Cash garbage, so Ill continue to enjoy EQ2.
for better or worse, leveling in EQII is so easy and fast that XP pots are fluff.
oh and selling items is nothing new to EQII. I have all kinds of special house items and pets that I had to "buy". They have promos all the time where you have to buy this or that mag and you get such and such item for free. you have to buy the boxed version to get the mount. if you buy the download, you don't get the mount. adventure packs come with items. blah blah blah
oh and they give you some station cash to start with so everyone can buy one of the pets or what ever you want. I bought the slimy pet which is a little blue blob that sits on the floor an does nothing. The RoK pet is much cooler.
And they have been adding new craft items since the launch of LoN. My main toon is a carpenter.
There are so many items already in the game through vet awards, adventure packs, expansions, promo offers, and LoN that come through purchases that I fail to see how this acutally changes anything.
In COH, the costumes are the most prized part of the game. you can earn pieces through all kinds of quests. When they added costume sets for purchase, there wasn't a player revolt. I don't see how this is any different than what many games offer which is a bunch of extra crap if you are stupid enough to cough up a few bucks. big deal
we all hate SOE blah blah blah SOE is the root of all MMO evil blah blah blah
That's exactly how I feel about it. I have re subbed in september to experience the Halloween and Christmas events because I've always missed them before. My December payment has already gone though so I can't take it back, but SOE won't be getting more from me.
Fluff items are no big deal people? Well excuse me but I have never cared for stats in games, I care for looks, I am a fluff player and this announcement means that if I want new fluff items I no longer have to participate in a contest or do some quests, I have to spend MORE of my cash, on top of a monthly sub and payment for each expansion.
No Way. Buh bye SOE, I have actually suported you and defended you on occasion, but no more. I am truly sad to say that. And I'm not bitching because it's SOE if NCsoft puts this crap in Aion at release or some time later, they'll get the same reaction.
Oh also in that email they sent out it says they added the cash shop BASED ON PLAYER FEEDBACK, and they are giving us what we asked for and wanted. WHAT? I don't ever recalled being asked if a cash shop was a good idea, NOT EVER. Thanks for lying to me via email.
(,,,)=^__^=(,,,)
But it is true MMO's have been doing this kinda of stuff for a while... If you want to get a special mount or some special in game fluff that can only be had if you spend an extra 40 bucks to get the special edition box. So not only are you paying for the expansion/game/content now you are paying about 40 bucks more for a mount.... or some in game fluff. If you ask me THATs a rip off.... 40+ buck for a fluff mount/item....
I see this Cash Store failing just as bad as the Adventure Packs.
O yeah
Cynthe
"Oh also in that email they sent out it says they added the cash shop BASED ON PLAYER FEEDBACK, and they are giving us what we asked for and wanted. WHAT? I don't ever recalled being asked if a cash shop was a good idea, NOT EVER. Thanks for lying to me via email"
I think that in game survey they had about a week ago (i didnt take it myself) but was told it was talked about in there. And yes.... sadly i know someone who did vote yes on it. But then again it doesnt suprise me, this guy spent almost 75 buck on a rare LoN in-game loot card. Said he feels SOE would give him a better deal then he has been getting from the ppl with ingame loot cards that he wants.....
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Oh the Adventure packs, those are the reasons I left the game in the first place, they pissed me off so much. ><
Obviously I missed that survey, and I'm guessing other players who have other MMOs on the go, or other games, probably did too. But ONE week to code all of that? Really? No way, it was already in the works and they already wanted to push it to live, the survey and this little email we got on the 9th was to cover their butts. Also I have an email since I got the announcement ,why not email the survey? If they REALLY cared about numbers? Unless I missed that too.
:S
(,,,)=^__^=(,,,)
Didn't know SOE was going the chinese way (bad mmorpgs + item shop)
This isn't a signature, you just think it is.
Oh the Adventure packs, those are the reasons I left the game in the first place, they pissed me off so much. ><
Obviously I missed that survey, and I'm guessing other players who have other MMOs on the go, or other games, probably did too. But ONE week to code all of that? Really? No way, it was already in the works and they already wanted to push it to live, the survey and this little email we got on the 9th was to cover their butts. Also I have an email since I got the announcement ,why not email the survey? If they REALLY cared about numbers? Unless I missed that too.
:S
Lol dont feel bad only reason i knew about it was because i was bored one night and i was reading up on some of the new lore on EQ2 and i ran across this
Heres the link on the new survey
http://eq2players.station.sony.com/news_archive_content.vm?id=1994§ion=News&locale=en_US
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I saw the survey via the EQII Launcher, but didn't take it. I have to agree with Cynthe that this survey is in no way the reason why the cash (cow) shop has been introduced, as the development time just isn't sufficient to get it all done.
For me the introduction of this is wrong because of the "fairness" aspect, in that those with more money can have more things than those without the RL cash. I prefer a level playing field where everyone has the same chances. And yes I know there are arguments about how some players can spare more time so RL cash makes it fairer, but that argument is so obviously flawed that I hope most folks have stopped listening to it.
The introduction of this will probably make me quit the game, but not just because of the RL cash aspect. The other side of this (and things like LoN) is that work that needs to be done on the base game is not being done. Examples: From a crafting aspect there are bugs on armour and thaumaturgy reaction arts that have been needing attention for 10 months now (and must be a simple fix as the other crafting arts are working fine). There are upgrades needed to shields, bows and charms that are long over due. The list of bugs affecting summoner pets seems to be increasing. The bugs where mobs disappear into the landscape appear on the increase too. Heck, there are just so, so many things in the base game that need addressing that seeing devs disappear to do these other things (so called fluff) is just soul destroying to someone who wants to actually play the game (as opposed to standing around say "coo look at me I am so rich in RL I can look like this"!
) in an enjoyable manner.
This is my decision. It's not a black and white case of this is right or wrong. It's a case of this change (on top of the others) is wrong for me, and so it's time for me to make a stand and stop funding these changes.
Fluff or not, for me that doesn't matter at all..
I cancelled my EQ2 sub some months ago, and nothing I've heard about the latest expansion makes it tempting to resub. Therefore, I decided to wait till next expansion to decide if EQ2 is something for me to come back to or not. With this new crap, the final decision was easy to make.
Goodbye, EQ2. I won't be coming back.
is it just me...or is anyone else reading this thread and having serious NGE flashbacks? I mean, really.
For a second I could have sworn I was reading those same threads again. Sony never ceases to amaze...
i quit eq2 because of this and found this website in search of a new mmo.
My opposition to this scheme, which resulted in my cancelling of all current SOE accounts, is because I believe this is the first and substantial step in the direction of ugly content.
Content, gameplay, customization, and virtual worlds designed around these payment schemes to get more of our money in addition to the money fee.
Many (many) of us MMORPG gamers (knowns as MMORPG consumers to them) will not tolerate this.
Subscriptions: CANCELED.
Nickel and Diming has been the SOE way for as long as I can remember.
How many times have we heard about content that was supposed to be added to the existing game - for no additional cost - but was instead added as an expansion? I know I've seen several over the years - across all SOE's games (their own at least). SOE sees a way to milk the players a little more... so they do it.
The Adventure Packs - another way to nickel-and-dime for content that many other companies provide via normal content updates.... at no additional cost. SOE sees a way to milk the players a little more... so they do it.
The LoN deal... once again... SOE sees a way to milk the players a little more... so they do it.
While other MMO companies are combatting RMT in one form or another... SOE embraces it by implementing Station Exchange. SOE sees a way to milk the players a little more... so they do it.
And now the item shops which, once again, after saying it wouldn't happen, the Smedster turns around and does it anyway... reprising the "blame it on the players" routine from the NGE trainwreck to justify it.
Before this, the only time I have ever seen an item shop implemented into a MMORPG has been one that is otherwise free to play. That has always been the distinction. Normal pay-to-play MMOs provide everything in the context of the game, included with the monthly sub. Free to play MMOs implement item shops as an alternative way to make money, by providing items that, when you really look at how some of them actually effect gameplay (it's not always immediately obvious), are *not* merely "fluff".
So once again, SOE is a "pioneer" in finding new ways to milk their customers for every penny they can.
I wonder what's next.
Whatever it is, we can all be sure of one thing...
If it's a way for SOE to milk the players a little more... they'll do it.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I have no problem with the implemention of another business model into an MMO already running. Just let grinders their XP-pots, let RPers their RP-clothes. They should have it, if they want to pay for it. Doesn't matter at all.
What really hits my nerve is yet another Dollar-Euro crap.
100SC = $1.00 = €1,00
Did I miss something? Why are Europeans supposed to pay roughly 35% more?
Even with 17% VAT it's just 0.85 Euro-cents.
So tell me, why the same service, the same virtual good - that doesn't even cost shipping - should be worth more in Europe. Thats just plain ripoff.