This is why I long ago change my playstyle. I play my own game, and ignore pretty much everyone on my server except my wife and a RL friend. I group when needed. My friend's list is barren. I don't buy items in the AH that I think are overpriced. I don't give a crap about raiding or pvp. I don't grind any rep, and I only grind deeds for traits that I need/want. Guess what? We enjoy the game very much. Double lifetime accounts since open beta. Most mmos are ruined by the community if you let them. Even so, the LotRO community is heads above most.
community is server specific , Online forum community is general, I just want to make that clear. Think everyone is awesome, you guys here make me want to play the game, but as soon as I log in, im getting annoyed at the same shit over and over again. Ifee really sad that it may be over , cause I really like playing with my kinship, but I will not join another one, once it is done, it is done.
Another server community issue, people are constantly trying to rip me off, telling me some b.s about just mail the item I will pay for it, or trying to lower pricess of things to like 10s , making up some B.S. excuse of how we need to stand together, when you you see that same person selling that item for 1 + gold in Ah.
I've never had the constant negative vibe from this game until this month, it is just amazing how the server got flipped like this.
Just wondering if there are some misunderstandings here. I know know you're an experienced player, but it sounds like there are explanations for these. When someone tells you to mail them an item it's usually so you they can COD you the money (ie, you specify the amount of money that is required for them to detach the item from the mail).
Also, regarding "standing together", I learned a trick yesterday that you can show someone a legendary item by putting it in a trade session (just don't click the trade button!). Since you can't link it in chat this is the only way to show them the item.
Regarding selling an item for 10s when it is worth 1g, just try to be more careful. /ignore people who try to screw you. I personally haven't seen anything like this but I'm sure there are people out there.
The community has become egotistical raiding community which has no time for casual players. No one on my server outside of the "raiding in crowd" can get a group , and this has been ever since the "elite" reached 60.
the end game content as raiding only, there is absolutely no push from them into expanding the PvMP areas and I am pretty much fed up with this shit. I just can't even recommend it to anyone because of the shear lack of content for Casual people to do,.
Turbine really let me down , and I'm very embrassed to even say that.
God, I'm so glad to have read this post. If you look at the above post I quoted, this is the why I chose to PURCHASE MINES OF MORIA!! You don't realize it, but those words you wrote made me smile and my face lit up like a christmas tree!
I came from the original EQ where that was the best PVE fast paced Story driven MMO I've ever played. It delights me to see, "judging by your rant comments" Turbine decided to turn this game into a hardcore raiding game with the new expansion. Where the hardcore serious gamers get rewarded.
I didn't want to play a family oriented little putt putt wipe your nose and hold you by the hand game..
This was the mentality I recieved when I first tried LOTRO back in July of 07. It was to easy and boring. Well, looks like I'll have to suffer through the early boring content, but it shouldnt be to bad since I hear the story is quite captivating.. Going out to my local walmart now to purchase Mines of Moria and I just dusted off the box and cd's and am now reinstalling the game!
Thanks again for those very important choice words that compelled me to go buy the game!! I appreciate it!!
Rallithon Oakthornn (Retired Heirophant of the 60th season)
I'm on Melendor, which was my beta server I tested on, so it is one of the older servers, all I can say is that iis has lost all of the core players from launch. As far as MPvP lore breaking in the Moria, anywhere where there is a Orc or Goblin, you can stick a MP.
We used to play on Melendor...now we all play on LAndroval mostly. Alot of drama on melendor. Too much for us. Some people like that though.
See you in the dream.. The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
I will urge anyone who is going to play this for the first time, Do NOT Join Melendor.
Well now that depends.
I'm on Meneldor, and I love it. Have been since I started playing.
Meneldor has a great community, imho, but it is a heavily PvMP server. I hear it's the unofficial one. So, if you are a new player that wants to get into that, this is the place for it.
Our Kin is huge, so usually if someone needs help, they can easily find kinmates to help them. Although with this new expansion, a lot of the higher ups are busy getting higher up, as I think you would notice that in /ooc or /glff chat.
Once the "newness" of it all calms down, I don't think it will be hard to get into groups, find help, whatever anymore. And, at least on our server, the PvMP will be rocking again!!!!
What elitist raiders? No one is raiding, as everyone is exploring the new content and leveling. Just laugh when you see all the elitist raiders wearing that old obsolete raid gear.
The lower level players are getting less help from the high level players at the moment, as the level 50+ toons are also leveling and exploring. Personally, I find it more challenging and more fun doing quests without the help of higher level players. Is leveling over when I get to 60? No. For starters, I get 2 new level 60 legendary weapon to level.
However, every toon in my guild who was doing a "must do" quest (eg class quest or crafting quest), got assistance from guildies if needed.
The bulk of the population is not level 60.
Its a bit early to draw any conclusions on PvMP (Ettenmoors) as it will be a while before there is a big level 60 freep playerbase to match the level 60 monster playerbase.
In a few months there will be lots of bored level 60 toons looking for diversion and auction house prices will settle down as the new gear becomes more common.
The community has become egotistical raiding community which has no time for casual players. No one on my server outside of the "raiding in crowd" can get a group , and this has been ever since the "elite" reached 60.
the end game content as raiding only, there is absolutely no push from them into expanding the PvMP areas and I am pretty much fed up with this shit. I just can't even recommend it to anyone because of the shear lack of content for Casual people to do,.
Turbine really let me down , and I'm very embrassed to even say that.
God, I'm so glad to have read this post. If you look at the above post I quoted, this is the why I chose to PURCHASE MINES OF MORIA!! You don't realize it, but those words you wrote made me smile and my face lit up like a christmas tree!
I came from the original EQ where that was the best PVE fast paced Story driven MMO I've ever played. It delights me to see, "judging by your rant comments" Turbine decided to turn this game into a hardcore raiding game with the new expansion. Where the hardcore serious gamers get rewarded.
I didn't want to play a family oriented little putt putt wipe your nose and hold you by the hand game..
This was the mentality I recieved when I first tried LOTRO back in July of 07. It was to easy and boring. Well, looks like I'll have to suffer through the early boring content, but it shouldnt be to bad since I hear the story is quite captivating.. Going out to my local walmart now to purchase Mines of Moria and I just dusted off the box and cd's and am now reinstalling the game!
Thanks again for those very important choice words that compelled me to go buy the game!! I appreciate it!!
NP ! Just remember that it is not the game that has changed, it is the player base, so maybe you will fit right in.
What are you implying exactly? If you think I'm on the same level as those whinny l33t talking WoW kiddies, then your surely mistaken.. Matter of fact, I decided to play on the Landroval server, which is the role playing server. There's nothing that sickens me more than seeing a bunch of batlenet rejects plaguing my server. But, I do enjoy playing with people who are very serious about the game. I enjoy raiding and defeating the most challenging content available, which classifies me as more hardcore than casual.
After reading your post, I immediately read about the expansion and what it entails and that really got me excited.
Rallithon Oakthornn (Retired Heirophant of the 60th season)
I'm on Melendor, which was my beta server I tested on, so it is one of the older servers, all I can say is that iis has lost all of the core players from launch. As far as MPvP lore breaking in the Moria, anywhere where there is a Orc or Goblin, you can stick a MP.
wow the part about mpvp in the mines sounds great; they should have figured out a way to do that.
well i havent seen any of the thing u mentioned. prices actually came down... sense the new expantion people need new items and different kind of material for example beryl shard price came down... warden and rune keeper pages are hot. things will change. however as far as raiding I haven't seen that still sense they new expantion have 6 man stances and 3 man, I'm guessing some 12 one but haven't experiance... this game still have a great community. you should just learn and get involved.
I am a bit late for the whole discussion but I would like to add my five cents.
I heard OP's complaint about raiding mentality before from other sources and the thing is that certain groups try to build up raider mentality but generally fail. The reason is that LOTRO, despite what detractors might claim, is not a carbon copy of raid oriented games like WoW or EQ.
Quite simply characters are less gear dependant then average, raids are fewer in numbers and overshadowed by small group content and there are more avenues to get the gear. All in all this means that raider mentality cannot get into the full bloom. Yes, some try but the general climate is against it.
For the conclusion I would point out that raiders trying to foster raider mentality is not the same as game being the haven for raiders. And LOTRO certainly isn't a radier haven and that suits me just fine. I picked the game because I did not want another raider oriented, gear gathering hamster wheel of a game.
For the conclusion I would point out that raiders trying to foster raider mentality is not the same as game being the haven for raiders. And LOTRO certainly isn't a radier haven and that suits me just fine. I picked the game because I did not want another raider oriented, gear gathering hamster wheel of a game. Personal preferences, naturally.
"This" right here!
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
You only have to go to the "gear grind" instances and run them in a "grind" fashion if you want to get the radiance gear for the watcher encounter.
Otherwise you don't have to worry about achieving the "challenge" mode of the instance (which usually involves skipping most of the quest objectives).
These instances take coordination and teamwork, so of course groups that have been together for any amount of time will be the first to achieve victory in them.
Only the hardcore players are at 60 right now for the most part. Most of those guys will have burned through the new endgame, gotten bored, and left in the next month or so. Wait until the more casual players get up to 60. I personally haven't seen any of what you are talking about on my server, but I'm also taking Moria at a pretty slow pace. Sucks that you ran into some assclowns.
I think this would pretty much sum it up as to how I feel about the situation...
I am a bit late for the whole discussion but I would like to add my five cents. I heard OP's complaint about raiding mentality before from other sources and the thing is that certain groups try to build up raider mentality but generally fail. The reason is that LOTRO, despite what detractors might claim, is not a carbon copy of raid oriented games like WoW or EQ. Quite simply characters are less gear dependant then average, raids are fewer in numbers and overshadowed by small group content and there are more avenues to get the gear. All in all this means that raider mentality cannot get into the full bloom. Yes, some try but the general climate is against it. For the conclusion I would point out that raiders trying to foster raider mentality is not the same as game being the haven for raiders. And LOTRO certainly isn't a radier haven and that suits me just fine. I picked the game because I did not want another raider oriented, gear gathering hamster wheel of a game. Personal preferences, naturally.
You sum up my fustration with WOW. I'm level 80. I've tried to gear up as best I can but it's not good enough for the raiding guild I'm in. And I suspect nothing I do will be good enough. All I want to do is experience the new content which I paid to see!
To date I've NEVER seen Oxynia, Molten Core, Black Temple, Serpenshrine Cavern, Sunwell Plateau, and now it looks like Naxxramas and basically Arthas... the Lich King. I feel like there's no point any more to WOW.
I want to play a MMO that is less raiding oriented, and your post seems to have hit the nail on the head for me.
Not sure how you can't get a group for any of the instances. Just form one yourself and others will join up. Not everyone wants to grind the instance so you should be able to fill your group with players that are more casual.
casual people will never have a place cause no one wants to play with people who are simply bad players and dont take anything seriously lol pwned kthxbye
Thus it consumes itself. They light a fire under the player via the acquisition stuff and then create a situation with limited fuel for the fire.
or you can just play for the social aspect. LoTRO is not nearly as gear dependent as most MMORPGs. In fact it is only as gear dependent as you want it to be. In the classes I play the most ( minstrel, LM) it is much more important to think and use tactics than to try and rely on gear
great gear plus average/poor player at the keyboard < poor to average gear and good player at keyboard.
80% plus of my gear is crafted with the other 20% coming from regular 6 man instances and solo quests and I do not own a single item of "raid" gear. I can out heal and do a much better job at keeping a six man group alive and managing agro than another minnie in our kin who portrays himself as a "dedicated" Rift/raid minstrel.
Bottom line is play the game the way you enjoy it, don't let the game play you.
Which is what I said I do. But ignoring that LOTRO is based on this model and the 20+ years of information regarding is simply setting yourself up for a fall. Its a social game and its design has social consequences. That is simply a fact. Play it however you want but a DIKU game is a DIKU game and they are and have been quite consistent is play patterns for quite some time.
Accept it or don't. That is is it. If the way people behave in the game is an issue for you then your answer is not good enough.
LOTRO is heavily gear based. Pretending its not is just silly. However there is no reason to grind overly much for gear in LOTRO.
When you say its not gear dependent simply mean it has less effect than some games that are in the same sub-genre. You also mean, although its not said, taht the traditoinal gear grind is not as big of problem as you can gear out just fine from fairly easy quests and normal activiteis and the difference between high end gear and that stuff is not gigantic.
But saying LOTRO is not gear dependent is completely silly. The difference between a naked level 50 and a well geared level 50 is HUGE.
Gear plays a large role in your capabilities. This is straight from the DIKU model, many other RPGs did not work this way. I have made characters in MUDs that were more powerful naked than some others fully armored. In fact one of these classes prohibited wearing any armor at all, including most magic jewlery. Even the gear progression itself is straight out of the DIKU model as it is far more graduated than the original D&D.
The gear design of DIKU games has a quite pedictable psychological affect. LOTRO is better than most, but it has exactly the same route to power via the same means.
Take that in isolation all you want. But since that is not the context of the game it means very little.
I am a bit late for the whole discussion but I would like to add my five cents. I heard OP's complaint about raiding mentality before from other sources and the thing is that certain groups try to build up raider mentality but generally fail. The reason is that LOTRO, despite what detractors might claim, is not a carbon copy of raid oriented games like WoW or EQ. Quite simply characters are less gear dependant then average, raids are fewer in numbers and overshadowed by small group content and there are more avenues to get the gear. All in all this means that raider mentality cannot get into the full bloom. Yes, some try but the general climate is against it. For the conclusion I would point out that raiders trying to foster raider mentality is not the same as game being the haven for raiders. And LOTRO certainly isn't a radier haven and that suits me just fine. I picked the game because I did not want another raider oriented, gear gathering hamster wheel of a game. Personal preferences, naturally.
You sum up my fustration with WOW. I'm level 80. I've tried to gear up as best I can but it's not good enough for the raiding guild I'm in. And I suspect nothing I do will be good enough. All I want to do is experience the new content which I paid to see!
To date I've NEVER seen Oxynia, Molten Core, Black Temple, Serpenshrine Cavern, Sunwell Plateau, and now it looks like Naxxramas and basically Arthas... the Lich King. I feel like there's no point any more to WOW.
I want to play a MMO that is less raiding oriented, and your post seems to have hit the nail on the head for me.
I saw a kin advertising in Moria saying "Blah recruit must be level 50+ and want to raid and participated in RP activites"
And I thought what the heck you want to RP yet require level 50+. You are RPing being elitist jerks?
LOTRO (and DDO too) have two populations that do not mix much. The easy going just for fun and the non-majority raider guys who most people jsut tolerate. There are people who do both and generally feel kind of torn.
In LOTRO they kind of leave each other alone. In DDO they tend to fight a lot more because of the forced grouping and they way they rush trhough content the easy going people want to enjoy. Strangely DDO is both very mmych more forced grouping but also capable making much more powerful solo characters than LOTRO. You see the same thing in Moria. People advertising for hard mode "fast" runs. So they can grind gear.
In DDO it is to such an extent that the two groups put out LFG message telling the other type not to join.
The only real difference between the groups is one is driven by getting as much as they can as fast possible at the expense of everything else. While the other group also wants stuff and wants nice rewards, but they also want to enjoy the experience as well.
This is what happens in these model where everything comes from the grind. You get a certain set of people who distill the game down to this. First jou get the XP , then jou get the Gear, then jou get the weemon. The number of which varies depending on how much they are fostered by the devs and game design. But it is always a significant amount.
My goal for a game that is a DIKU type is for the population of these players to not be high enough such that they are considered to be the drivers of the game. Listening to them is ok but not driving the game. I prefer if they are tolerated but not considered to represent the way the game "should be".
It is important to realize this is not just "raiders". Raiding in game like WoW and EQ just concentrated and validated these people. They existed before raiding and in games like DDO do the same thing in 6 man groups and piss people off.
Comments
community is server specific , Online forum community is general, I just want to make that clear. Think everyone is awesome, you guys here make me want to play the game, but as soon as I log in, im getting annoyed at the same shit over and over again. Ifee really sad that it may be over , cause I really like playing with my kinship, but I will not join another one, once it is done, it is done.
Another server community issue, people are constantly trying to rip me off, telling me some b.s about just mail the item I will pay for it, or trying to lower pricess of things to like 10s , making up some B.S. excuse of how we need to stand together, when you you see that same person selling that item for 1 + gold in Ah.
I've never had the constant negative vibe from this game until this month, it is just amazing how the server got flipped like this.
Just wondering if there are some misunderstandings here. I know know you're an experienced player, but it sounds like there are explanations for these. When someone tells you to mail them an item it's usually so you they can COD you the money (ie, you specify the amount of money that is required for them to detach the item from the mail).
Also, regarding "standing together", I learned a trick yesterday that you can show someone a legendary item by putting it in a trade session (just don't click the trade button!). Since you can't link it in chat this is the only way to show them the item.
Regarding selling an item for 10s when it is worth 1g, just try to be more careful. /ignore people who try to screw you. I personally haven't seen anything like this but I'm sure there are people out there.
God, I'm so glad to have read this post. If you look at the above post I quoted, this is the why I chose to PURCHASE MINES OF MORIA!! You don't realize it, but those words you wrote made me smile and my face lit up like a christmas tree!
I came from the original EQ where that was the best PVE fast paced Story driven MMO I've ever played. It delights me to see, "judging by your rant comments" Turbine decided to turn this game into a hardcore raiding game with the new expansion. Where the hardcore serious gamers get rewarded.
I didn't want to play a family oriented little putt putt wipe your nose and hold you by the hand game..
This was the mentality I recieved when I first tried LOTRO back in July of 07. It was to easy and boring. Well, looks like I'll have to suffer through the early boring content, but it shouldnt be to bad since I hear the story is quite captivating.. Going out to my local walmart now to purchase Mines of Moria and I just dusted off the box and cd's and am now reinstalling the game!
Thanks again for those very important choice words that compelled me to go buy the game!! I appreciate it!!
Rallithon Oakthornn
(Retired Heirophant of the 60th season)
We used to play on Melendor...now we all play on LAndroval mostly. Alot of drama on melendor. Too much for us. Some people like that though.
See you in the dream..
The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
"Freedom is just another name for nothing left to lose" - Janis Joplin
.jpg)
Well now that depends.
I'm on Meneldor, and I love it. Have been since I started playing.
Meneldor has a great community, imho, but it is a heavily PvMP server. I hear it's the unofficial one. So, if you are a new player that wants to get into that, this is the place for it.
Our Kin is huge, so usually if someone needs help, they can easily find kinmates to help them. Although with this new expansion, a lot of the higher ups are busy getting higher up, as I think you would notice that in /ooc or /glff chat.
Once the "newness" of it all calms down, I don't think it will be hard to get into groups, find help, whatever anymore. And, at least on our server, the PvMP will be rocking again!!!!
LotRO: Meneldor: Riders of the Riddermark
"Freedom is just another name for nothing left to lose" - Janis Joplin
.jpg)
I am having a ball in LoTRO at the moment.
What elitist raiders? No one is raiding, as everyone is exploring the new content and leveling. Just laugh when you see all the elitist raiders wearing that old obsolete raid gear.
The lower level players are getting less help from the high level players at the moment, as the level 50+ toons are also leveling and exploring. Personally, I find it more challenging and more fun doing quests without the help of higher level players. Is leveling over when I get to 60? No. For starters, I get 2 new level 60 legendary weapon to level.
However, every toon in my guild who was doing a "must do" quest (eg class quest or crafting quest), got assistance from guildies if needed.
The bulk of the population is not level 60.
Its a bit early to draw any conclusions on PvMP (Ettenmoors) as it will be a while before there is a big level 60 freep playerbase to match the level 60 monster playerbase.
In a few months there will be lots of bored level 60 toons looking for diversion and auction house prices will settle down as the new gear becomes more common.
Didn't this thread used to have a different title?
God, I'm so glad to have read this post. If you look at the above post I quoted, this is the why I chose to PURCHASE MINES OF MORIA!! You don't realize it, but those words you wrote made me smile and my face lit up like a christmas tree!
I came from the original EQ where that was the best PVE fast paced Story driven MMO I've ever played. It delights me to see, "judging by your rant comments" Turbine decided to turn this game into a hardcore raiding game with the new expansion. Where the hardcore serious gamers get rewarded.
I didn't want to play a family oriented little putt putt wipe your nose and hold you by the hand game..
This was the mentality I recieved when I first tried LOTRO back in July of 07. It was to easy and boring. Well, looks like I'll have to suffer through the early boring content, but it shouldnt be to bad since I hear the story is quite captivating.. Going out to my local walmart now to purchase Mines of Moria and I just dusted off the box and cd's and am now reinstalling the game!
Thanks again for those very important choice words that compelled me to go buy the game!! I appreciate it!!
NP ! Just remember that it is not the game that has changed, it is the player base, so maybe you will fit right in.
What are you implying exactly? If you think I'm on the same level as those whinny l33t talking WoW kiddies, then your surely mistaken.. Matter of fact, I decided to play on the Landroval server, which is the role playing server. There's nothing that sickens me more than seeing a bunch of batlenet rejects plaguing my server. But, I do enjoy playing with people who are very serious about the game. I enjoy raiding and defeating the most challenging content available, which classifies me as more hardcore than casual.
After reading your post, I immediately read about the expansion and what it entails and that really got me excited.
Rallithon Oakthornn
(Retired Heirophant of the 60th season)
wow the part about mpvp in the mines sounds great; they should have figured out a way to do that.
maybe they still will in an update.
well i havent seen any of the thing u mentioned. prices actually came down... sense the new expantion people need new items and different kind of material for example beryl shard price came down... warden and rune keeper pages are hot. things will change. however as far as raiding I haven't seen that still sense they new expantion have 6 man stances and 3 man, I'm guessing some 12 one but haven't experiance... this game still have a great community. you should just learn and get involved.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
"Freedom is just another name for nothing left to lose" - Janis Joplin
.jpg)
I am a bit late for the whole discussion but I would like to add my five cents.
I heard OP's complaint about raiding mentality before from other sources and the thing is that certain groups try to build up raider mentality but generally fail. The reason is that LOTRO, despite what detractors might claim, is not a carbon copy of raid oriented games like WoW or EQ.
Quite simply characters are less gear dependant then average, raids are fewer in numbers and overshadowed by small group content and there are more avenues to get the gear. All in all this means that raider mentality cannot get into the full bloom. Yes, some try but the general climate is against it.
For the conclusion I would point out that raiders trying to foster raider mentality is not the same as game being the haven for raiders. And LOTRO certainly isn't a radier haven and that suits me just fine. I picked the game because I did not want another raider oriented, gear gathering hamster wheel of a game.
Personal preferences, naturally.
"This" right here!
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
"Freedom is just another name for nothing left to lose" - Janis Joplin
.jpg)
You only have to go to the "gear grind" instances and run them in a "grind" fashion if you want to get the radiance gear for the watcher encounter.
Otherwise you don't have to worry about achieving the "challenge" mode of the instance (which usually involves skipping most of the quest objectives).
These instances take coordination and teamwork, so of course groups that have been together for any amount of time will be the first to achieve victory in them.
By the way, these instances are fun!!
I think this would pretty much sum it up as to how I feel about the situation...
You sum up my fustration with WOW. I'm level 80. I've tried to gear up as best I can but it's not good enough for the raiding guild I'm in. And I suspect nothing I do will be good enough. All I want to do is experience the new content which I paid to see!
To date I've NEVER seen Oxynia, Molten Core, Black Temple, Serpenshrine Cavern, Sunwell Plateau, and now it looks like Naxxramas and basically Arthas... the Lich King. I feel like there's no point any more to WOW.
I want to play a MMO that is less raiding oriented, and your post seems to have hit the nail on the head for me.
Not sure how you can't get a group for any of the instances. Just form one yourself and others will join up. Not everyone wants to grind the instance so you should be able to fill your group with players that are more casual.
"Freedom is just another name for nothing left to lose" - Janis Joplin
.jpg)
I don't know about anyone else but I love running groups with 2 capts and no minstrels or other variations.
casual people will never have a place cause no one wants to play with people who are simply bad players and dont take anything seriously lol pwned kthxbye
or you can just play for the social aspect. LoTRO is not nearly as gear dependent as most MMORPGs. In fact it is only as gear dependent as you want it to be. In the classes I play the most ( minstrel, LM) it is much more important to think and use tactics than to try and rely on gear
great gear plus average/poor player at the keyboard < poor to average gear and good player at keyboard.
80% plus of my gear is crafted with the other 20% coming from regular 6 man instances and solo quests and I do not own a single item of "raid" gear. I can out heal and do a much better job at keeping a six man group alive and managing agro than another minnie in our kin who portrays himself as a "dedicated" Rift/raid minstrel.
Bottom line is play the game the way you enjoy it, don't let the game play you.
Which is what I said I do. But ignoring that LOTRO is based on this model and the 20+ years of information regarding is simply setting yourself up for a fall. Its a social game and its design has social consequences. That is simply a fact. Play it however you want but a DIKU game is a DIKU game and they are and have been quite consistent is play patterns for quite some time.
Accept it or don't. That is is it. If the way people behave in the game is an issue for you then your answer is not good enough.
LOTRO is heavily gear based. Pretending its not is just silly. However there is no reason to grind overly much for gear in LOTRO.
When you say its not gear dependent simply mean it has less effect than some games that are in the same sub-genre. You also mean, although its not said, taht the traditoinal gear grind is not as big of problem as you can gear out just fine from fairly easy quests and normal activiteis and the difference between high end gear and that stuff is not gigantic.
But saying LOTRO is not gear dependent is completely silly. The difference between a naked level 50 and a well geared level 50 is HUGE.
Gear plays a large role in your capabilities. This is straight from the DIKU model, many other RPGs did not work this way. I have made characters in MUDs that were more powerful naked than some others fully armored. In fact one of these classes prohibited wearing any armor at all, including most magic jewlery. Even the gear progression itself is straight out of the DIKU model as it is far more graduated than the original D&D.
The gear design of DIKU games has a quite pedictable psychological affect. LOTRO is better than most, but it has exactly the same route to power via the same means.
Take that in isolation all you want. But since that is not the context of the game it means very little.
You sum up my fustration with WOW. I'm level 80. I've tried to gear up as best I can but it's not good enough for the raiding guild I'm in. And I suspect nothing I do will be good enough. All I want to do is experience the new content which I paid to see!
To date I've NEVER seen Oxynia, Molten Core, Black Temple, Serpenshrine Cavern, Sunwell Plateau, and now it looks like Naxxramas and basically Arthas... the Lich King. I feel like there's no point any more to WOW.
I want to play a MMO that is less raiding oriented, and your post seems to have hit the nail on the head for me.
I saw a kin advertising in Moria saying "Blah recruit must be level 50+ and want to raid and participated in RP activites"
And I thought what the heck you want to RP yet require level 50+. You are RPing being elitist jerks?
LOTRO (and DDO too) have two populations that do not mix much. The easy going just for fun and the non-majority raider guys who most people jsut tolerate. There are people who do both and generally feel kind of torn.
In LOTRO they kind of leave each other alone. In DDO they tend to fight a lot more because of the forced grouping and they way they rush trhough content the easy going people want to enjoy. Strangely DDO is both very mmych more forced grouping but also capable making much more powerful solo characters than LOTRO. You see the same thing in Moria. People advertising for hard mode "fast" runs. So they can grind gear.
In DDO it is to such an extent that the two groups put out LFG message telling the other type not to join.
The only real difference between the groups is one is driven by getting as much as they can as fast possible at the expense of everything else. While the other group also wants stuff and wants nice rewards, but they also want to enjoy the experience as well.
This is what happens in these model where everything comes from the grind. You get a certain set of people who distill the game down to this. First jou get the XP , then jou get the Gear, then jou get the weemon. The number of which varies depending on how much they are fostered by the devs and game design. But it is always a significant amount.
My goal for a game that is a DIKU type is for the population of these players to not be high enough such that they are considered to be the drivers of the game. Listening to them is ok but not driving the game. I prefer if they are tolerated but not considered to represent the way the game "should be".
It is important to realize this is not just "raiders". Raiding in game like WoW and EQ just concentrated and validated these people. They existed before raiding and in games like DDO do the same thing in 6 man groups and piss people off.
good to see a nice raid game forming for Lotro.
Maybe I'll start this game up and roll two characters a hardcore raid toon and a casual small guild social lets have a laugh toon.
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Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum