EVE is not fully open pvp. You are safe in high sec space. Thats the way most people want it. They want areas that are safe, where you can gather resources, and kill mobs.
They don't want a game where 50 people are standing outside all the exits to town, and kill you the second you leave the city
Anybody who is playing Eve and staying in 5.0 and up isnt even playing the game and may as well be playing X3 Reunion...
Darkfall seems to make you actually need some skills.
LOOK AT MA DF GAMING SKILLZ: CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK STRAFE LEFT, STRAFE RIGHT CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK F1,F2 CLICK CLICK CLICK.......... It takes skill to play guitar, it takes skill to cook (good anyways), also to fly a plane, climb a mountain even to play chess just to name a few.For all those and many more it takes some amount of skill.
It DOESN'T take any skill though in order to play a video-game mmo or otherwise
I disagree.
Well that's your opinion you're entitled to one.Opinions are like noses,everybody has one.
Skill is a learned practice. Something you have to learn in order to be good at it.
Skill and talent are not the same (unless you count having a knack for learning quickly as a talent). I think that videogames DO involve skill. If not, why are some people much better at certain games than others? It's because they took the time to learn.
Talent and skill are not the same, yes, can you be both or either of those whilst playing guitar? Yes! Driving a car?Yes! Playing chess?Yes!!! Does it take any skill or talent to play a video game? Sadly no! Proof? Grab a 10 year old kid and place it behind a computer screen with any game of your choice mmo or otherwise and within 1 1/2 hour tops the kid will figure out the game system but place the same kid behind a wheel, playing a complete song on the guitar or at a chess board and it's gonna take a bit more than 1 1/2 hour to learn those right talented or not.
Is being good at a game something to admire? Probably not, but it is still a skill.
You're half right there..
In UO, you did have to be skilled at the game. You could have 10 people, give them all the same stats and equipment and make them all fight - the most skilled guy would win. Hell, 1 skilled guy vs 9 not-so-skilled guys could win. That was what made UO great. It was based on your knowledge/ability to play the game and not your class/race/level/uber-magic-wand-of-carebear. Sounds like skill to me.
Sounds to me more like-the guy that could press the mouse button the fastest whilst not staying at the same spot while he was doing that would win- this hardly sounds like skill to me. 1 skilled guy vs 9 non skilled guys win?????? 1 thing i learned watching the nature channel: 1lion vs 1 hyena=lion wins, 1 lion vs 9 hyenas= hyenas eat lion stew for supper. In no game to this day can anyone claim what you just claimed sir, skill or no skill, especially if they all have the same equipment, are the same lvl and there are no classes.....You sir are like the Hindenburg baloon, full of hot air!Seriously, how did you do it? Killed them when they were afk?
Chess and UO are both games. Whether digital or otherwise - the person who is able to anticipate his opponent's moves faster and more accurately usually wins.
Yes they are both games but only one of them has 1)a world championship 2)a world champion 3) can look good in your CV 4)exists in both RL and VL 5) has professionals (people that make money playing it) at it. Besides chess isn't a game of speed and accuracy it's a game of patience and yes predicting your opponents next move,personally i get a headache after only an hour of playing chess.
I hope Darkfall will be the same.
I hope not, getting a headache after an hour of playing doesn't sound too appealing to me
It does take skill to play computer games , it may not be skill that can be usefully applied to other areas but it is skill none the less. Ego if no skill is required why don't you enter professional competitions? This guys made $500,000 doing it, should be easy for you to do the same.
The high sec's in Eve aren't completely safe. There isn't much value in being in high sec anyway. All the places with opportunities to make the big cash are in the scariest of places.
Sent me an email if you want me to mail you some pizza rolls.
Yes they are both games but only one of them has 1)a world championship 2)a world champion 3) can look good in your CV 4)exists in both RL and VL 5) has professionals (people that make money playing it) at it. Besides chess isn't a game of speed and accuracy it's a game of patience and yes predicting your opponents next move,personally i get a headache after only an hour of playing chess. I hope Darkfall will be the same. I hope not, getting a headache after an hour of playing doesn't sound too appealing to me
Clearly you have a problem with playing video games (which makes me wonder why you are on MMORPG.Com, but I digress)
Think about what you are saying, before you type it please.
1) Many Video Games have world championships (I was almost flown to Korea 2 years ago to participate in a World Championship for a FPS video game, so your wrong on the first one)
2) If there are world championships (and there are) then there are also victors, who then become the world champions, so you are wrong on the second one too (I know the people who won the WC for that game, I hate them for going instead of me -.- lol)
3) Dunno what a CV is, might wanna clarify on your acronyms :P
4) That statement is just ignorant, I mean seriously, saying that it doesn't take skill because there aren't trolls and goblins running around in real life for you to kill is just pathetic.
5) There are tons of profesionals, someone posted about Fatality, he is a profesional gamer, and there are profesional gaming teams, who are on TV (and yea, there are shows about people playing Dead or Alive, and Counter strike/various other games) and teams get paid for winning, especially when they win the championship of their league/whatever, so you are WRONG AGAIN.
6) You state that the reason why chess takes skill, is because it doesn't use speed or accuracy, and those are key parts to what "skill" means, the ability to out manuever, out perform, and out think everyone else. Chess doesn't rely solely on quickness, true, but it is a part, why else would the championship chess leagues require you to use a clock and follow strict time requirements (meaning you have to be quick, you cant just sit for 5 hours and think).
You seam to have a TOTAL bias against people who play video games, thinking that games (in general) don't take skill, because it isn't something that you can repeat in real life (IE slaying dragons etc), but games use dexterity (the ability to out click / out manuever your oponents), accuracy (the ability to not only move your mouse quickly, but to move them to the right place), and plenty of ingenuity (the ability to think quickly on your feet [or butt as the case may be] and be able to do complexe rationalities while on the move, to be able to determine what you should do, how, and when. Basically, the ability to out think your opponent).
If the aforementioned items are not what determine "Skill" for you, I suggest you go and look it up in the dictionary. Or maybe go see a theropist.
It does take skill to play computer games , it may not be skill that can be usefully applied to other areas but it is skill none the less. Ego if no skill is required why don't you enter professional competitions? This guys made $500,000 doing it, should be easy for you to do the same. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatal1ty Come back when you have won a few and post some pics of the cheques.
Ok you got me stumped there. I had no idea really...500,000$ for playing games???? They definitely don't play with a full deck on the other side of the ocean. But hey who am i to judge them, if they got the cash and they don't know anything better to do with it they can give it away like that...............whatever
Tell you what if we ever get one round the area that i live and i have the time to do so i think i'll give it a shot......... EAAAAASY MONEY!!
Still i'm not so sure whether i would come back here or anywhere for that matter to brag about it since there is really nothing to brag about, but i will tell you if i ever get to climb Everest !!!!
EVE is not fully open pvp. You are safe in high sec space. Thats the way most people want it. They want areas that are safe, where you can gather resources, and kill mobs.
They don't want a game where 50 people are standing outside all the exits to town, and kill you the second you leave the city
You mean like... umm... like you could in Britain????
Britain's secure area extended all the way out to the mountains (to the passage to x-roads). You had a huge secure area, where you could work as a lumberjack, a miner, a fisherman - in fact all crafter/gatherer types that you wanted.
You mean like... umm... like you could in Britain???? Britain's secure area extended all the way out to the mountains (to the passage to x-roads). You had a huge secure area, where you could work as a lumberjack, a miner, a fisherman - in fact all crafter/gatherer types that you wanted. In 100% security of insta-killing guards.
Maybe they changed it later, but at release, the safe zone was only like 50 feet from town, so you couldn't gather resources in a safe area.
You mean like... umm... like you could in Britain???? Britain's secure area extended all the way out to the mountains (to the passage to x-roads). You had a huge secure area, where you could work as a lumberjack, a miner, a fisherman - in fact all crafter/gatherer types that you wanted. In 100% security of insta-killing guards.
Maybe they changed it later, but at release, the safe zone was only like 50 feet from town, so you couldn't gather resources in a safe area.
Yes thats how it was at release ......Are you sure played the same game?
Maybe they changed it later, but at release, the safe zone was only like 50 feet from town, so you couldn't gather resources in a safe area.
Yes thats how it was at release ......Are you sure played the same game?
yes i did, you would run north, and the graveyard was out of the safe zone. You had to run farther north to get to the mountains. gathering in the mountains wasn't safe at all.
And all the trees near the city had already been chopped down. So you had to go way past the safe zone to find trees that hadn't been chopped.
Maybe they changed it later, but at release, the safe zone was only like 50 feet from town, so you couldn't gather resources in a safe area.
Yes thats how it was at release ......Are you sure played the same game?
yes i did, you would run north, and the graveyard was out of the safe zone. You had to run farther north to get to the mountains. gathering in the mountains wasn't safe at all.
And all the trees near the city had already been chopped down. So you had to go way past the safe zone to find trees that hadn't been chopped.
There were many areas to work your fighting and craft sklills in under the safety of town guards Cove was good for mining ,Yew for forestry ,leatherworking Fishing many towns, magery in moomnglow(lotsa of animals here also) and alchemy... And many were there to choose from creation to start at..
Yes they are both games but only one of them has 1)a world championship 2)a world champion 3) can look good in your CV 4)exists in both RL and VL 5) has professionals (people that make money playing it) at it. Besides chess isn't a game of speed and accuracy it's a game of patience and yes predicting your opponents next move,personally i get a headache after only an hour of playing chess. I hope Darkfall will be the same. I hope not, getting a headache after an hour of playing doesn't sound too appealing to me
Clearly you have a problem with playing video games (which makes me wonder why you are on MMORPG.Com, but I digress)
i wonder how you ended up with this conclusion but for the sake of conversation i shall accept it for now
Think about what you are saying, before you type it please.
Right back at you
1) Many Video Games have world championships (I was almost flown to Korea 2 years ago to participate in a World Championship for a FPS video game, so your wrong on the first one)
Yeah i just found out about this one and i am a bit shocked honestly
2) If there are world championships (and there are) then there are also victors, who then become the world champions, so you are wrong on the second one too (I know the people who won the WC for that game, I hate them for going instead of me -.- lol)
Watch my answer above
3) Dunno what a CV is, might wanna clarify on your acronyms :P
You're either to young to know what a CV is or too rich anyone applying for a job needs one 'Curriculum Vitae' search it up in a dictionary
4) That statement is just ignorant, I mean seriously, saying that it doesn't take skill because there aren't trolls and goblins running around in real life for you to kill is just pathetic.
Care to explain to me how exactly is pressing the mouse button really fast while strafing is a skill??
5) There are tons of profesionals, someone posted about Fatality, he is a profesional gamer, and there are profesional gaming teams, who are on TV (and yea, there are shows about people playing Dead or Alive, and Counter strike/various other games) and teams get paid for winning, especially when they win the championship of their league/whatever, so you are WRONG AGAIN.
Now see i found out just a few minutes ago and i still lol at this term professional gamer. Games are supposed to be fun first the instant that 'professionalism' is added the fun factor goes right out the window for me cause soon after we have people running around flaunting their ' game achievements' and 'uber elite status' demanding,some times, recognition for things that nobody but them could possibly care
6) You state that the reason why chess takes skill, is because it doesn't use speed or accuracy, and those are key parts to what "skill" means, the ability to out manuever, out perform, and out think everyone else. Chess doesn't rely solely on quickness, true, but it is a part, why else would the championship chess leagues require you to use a clock and follow strict time requirements (meaning you have to be quick, you cant just sit for 5 hours and think).
Ok i'll give you that one i wasn't talking about pro league chess i was talking about the commonly known features of the game worldwide and quickness isn't one of them but nontheless it is a chess feature
You seam to have a TOTAL bias against people who play video games, thinking that games (in general) don't take skill, because it isn't something that you can repeat in real life (IE slaying dragons etc), but games use dexterity (the ability to out click / out manuever your oponents), accuracy (the ability to not only move your mouse quickly, but to move them to the right place), and plenty of ingenuity (the ability to think quickly on your feet [or butt as the case may be] and be able to do complexe rationalities while on the move, to be able to determine what you should do, how, and when. Basically, the ability to out think your opponent).
If the aforementioned items are not what determine "Skill" for you, I suggest you go and look it up in the dictionary. Or maybe go see a theropist.
If i'm biased against people that play games then i'm biased towards myself too because i am a gamer myself which in turn makes this some sort of split personallity disorder But i guess that's just your opinion i'm only biased as far as people like you are concerned, that's the sort of people that take the whole gaming thing a bit to seriously ( talking about skills and 'out clicking'[WTF does that even mean??] their opponent???!?)and not so on it's fun side.
Therapist???Nah, doesn't work too expensive. I prefer my local bar that has one of those bartenders that know how to listen (now that's an actual skill) and who knows maybe i'll get lucky enough and find a chick that's drunk enough to come home with me
Yes they are both games but only one of them has 1)a world championship 2)a world champion 3) can look good in your CV 4)exists in both RL and VL 5) has professionals (people that make money playing it) at it. Besides chess isn't a game of speed and accuracy it's a game of patience and yes predicting your opponents next move,personally i get a headache after only an hour of playing chess. I hope Darkfall will be the same. I hope not, getting a headache after an hour of playing doesn't sound too appealing to me
Clearly you have a problem with playing video games (which makes me wonder why you are on MMORPG.Com, but I digress)
i wonder how you ended up with this conclusion but for the sake of conversation i shall accept it for now
Think about what you are saying, before you type it please.
Right back at you
1) Many Video Games have world championships (I was almost flown to Korea 2 years ago to participate in a World Championship for a FPS video game, so your wrong on the first one)
Yeah i just found out about this one and i am a bit shocked honestly
2) If there are world championships (and there are) then there are also victors, who then become the world champions, so you are wrong on the second one too (I know the people who won the WC for that game, I hate them for going instead of me -.- lol)
Watch my answer above
3) Dunno what a CV is, might wanna clarify on your acronyms :P
You're either to young to know what a CV is or too rich anyone applying for a job needs one 'Curriculum Vitae' search it up in a dictionary
4) That statement is just ignorant, I mean seriously, saying that it doesn't take skill because there aren't trolls and goblins running around in real life for you to kill is just pathetic.
Care to explain to me how exactly is pressing the mouse button really fast while strafing is a skill??
5) There are tons of profesionals, someone posted about Fatality, he is a profesional gamer, and there are profesional gaming teams, who are on TV (and yea, there are shows about people playing Dead or Alive, and Counter strike/various other games) and teams get paid for winning, especially when they win the championship of their league/whatever, so you are WRONG AGAIN.
Now see i found out just a few minutes ago and i still lol at this term professional gamer. Games are supposed to be fun first the instant that 'professionalism' is added the fun factor goes right out the window for me cause soon after we have people running around flaunting their ' game achievements' and 'uber elite status' demanding,some times, recognition for things that nobody but them could possibly care
6) You state that the reason why chess takes skill, is because it doesn't use speed or accuracy, and those are key parts to what "skill" means, the ability to out manuever, out perform, and out think everyone else. Chess doesn't rely solely on quickness, true, but it is a part, why else would the championship chess leagues require you to use a clock and follow strict time requirements (meaning you have to be quick, you cant just sit for 5 hours and think).
Ok i'll give you that one i wasn't talking about pro league chess i was talking about the commonly know features of the game worldwide and quickness isn't one of them but nontheless it is a chess feature
You seam to have a TOTAL bias against people who play video games, thinking that games (in general) don't take skill, because it isn't something that you can repeat in real life (IE slaying dragons etc), but games use dexterity (the ability to out click / out manuever your oponents), accuracy (the ability to not only move your mouse quickly, but to move them to the right place), and plenty of ingenuity (the ability to think quickly on your feet [or butt as the case may be] and be able to do complexe rationalities while on the move, to be able to determine what you should do, how, and when. Basically, the ability to out think your opponent).
If the aforementioned items are not what determine "Skill" for you, I suggest you go and look it up in the dictionary. Or maybe go see a theropist.
If i'm biased against people that play games then i'm biased towards myself too because i am a gamer myself which in turn makes this some sort of split personallity disorder But i guess that's just your opinion i'm only biased as far as people like you are concerned, that's the sort of people that take the whole gaming thing a bit to seriously ( talking about skills and 'out clicking'[WTF does that even mean] their opponent)and not so on it's fun side.
Therapist???Nah, doesn't work too expensive. I prefer my local bar that has one of those bartenders that know how to listen (now that's an actual skill) and who knows maybe i'll get lucky enough and find a chick that's drunk enough to come home with me
First off, I am from the USA, so we call it a Resume (and yes I have one), second off, you can infact put gaming achievements on certain resumes, for instance if you were trying to get into the gaming industry, such as Quality Assurance or Design, if you won a world championship at First Person Shooters, they would be someone inclined to listen to your point of view on how to make a good First Person Shooter, or equipment to go along with said games (such as Infinity with his brand of Sound Cards and Head Sets).
Now would I put that I had a level 80 Mage on my resume to Kinkos, probably not, that would get you laughed out the door. (and no I dont play wow).
And why do I think you dislike gamers? Because you mock gaming in general, you degenerate it down to just "point and click", and to a certain degree it is, for those who are less inclined to know better (you). I play first person shooters mainly, I am talking about America's Army, Battlefield, Call of Duty, and the like, if you go into one of those games, and think that who wins has nothing to do with skill, then thats probably cause you are never the winner.
"Care to explain to me how exactly is pressing the mouse button really fast while strafing is a skill??"
I will, because it can be broken down to Hand Eye Coordination. Me being able to move my aim reticle over your head, and pull the trigger takes the same brain work that a Drag Racer uses to see a green light, and hit the gas while shifting gears in order to beat his opponent by fractions of a second, just like I get a headshot on you by just a fraction of a second before you can shoot back.
"Games are supposed to be fun first the instant that 'professionalism' is added the fun factor goes right out the window for me cause soon after we have people running around flaunting their ' game achievements' and 'uber elite status' demanding,some times, recognition for things that nobody but them could possibly care"
Once again, you bring in personality traits. You assume that because some people are better then others, they will/have to flaunt it. You recognize that there are people who are better, but you don't recognize WHY there are people who are better. Tell me this, if it isn't skill, then what is it? If you and I are going against each other, and all outstanding factors are equal (gear, level, etc) and I win by a large margin, WHY did that happen? Lets say we go at it again, and the same result happens, WHY did I win? Luck? Fate? No pal, I think its because I am better, thus I am more skilled then you are at the game. Why are you so reluctant to admit that skill does factor into it?
"If i'm biased against people that play games then i'm biased towards myself too"
I appologize, I misworded what I wanted to say, let me rephrase. You aren't biased against gamers, you are biased against gamers who are better then you. Whether they flaunt it or not, you shrug it off as something along the lines of "luck" and say it doesn't "take skill" because you don't want to admit it to yourself, so you make excuses, and you dodge the real issue, and it doesn't matter how much you get proven wrong, you aren't going to admit it, so I am just going to end this little rant now. Have fun :P
Yes they are both games but only one of them has 1)a world championship 2)a world champion 3) can look good in your CV 4)exists in both RL and VL 5) has professionals (people that make money playing it) at it. Besides chess isn't a game of speed and accuracy it's a game of patience and yes predicting your opponents next move,personally i get a headache after only an hour of playing chess. I hope Darkfall will be the same. I hope not, getting a headache after an hour of playing doesn't sound too appealing to me
Clearly you have a problem with playing video games (which makes me wonder why you are on MMORPG.Com, but I digress)
i wonder how you ended up with this conclusion but for the sake of conversation i shall accept it for now
Think about what you are saying, before you type it please.
Right back at you
1) Many Video Games have world championships (I was almost flown to Korea 2 years ago to participate in a World Championship for a FPS video game, so your wrong on the first one)
Yeah i just found out about this one and i am a bit shocked honestly
2) If there are world championships (and there are) then there are also victors, who then become the world champions, so you are wrong on the second one too (I know the people who won the WC for that game, I hate them for going instead of me -.- lol)
Watch my answer above
3) Dunno what a CV is, might wanna clarify on your acronyms :P
You're either to young to know what a CV is or too rich anyone applying for a job needs one 'Curriculum Vitae' search it up in a dictionary
4) That statement is just ignorant, I mean seriously, saying that it doesn't take skill because there aren't trolls and goblins running around in real life for you to kill is just pathetic.
Care to explain to me how exactly is pressing the mouse button really fast while strafing is a skill??
5) There are tons of profesionals, someone posted about Fatality, he is a profesional gamer, and there are profesional gaming teams, who are on TV (and yea, there are shows about people playing Dead or Alive, and Counter strike/various other games) and teams get paid for winning, especially when they win the championship of their league/whatever, so you are WRONG AGAIN.
Now see i found out just a few minutes ago and i still lol at this term professional gamer. Games are supposed to be fun first the instant that 'professionalism' is added the fun factor goes right out the window for me cause soon after we have people running around flaunting their ' game achievements' and 'uber elite status' demanding,some times, recognition for things that nobody but them could possibly care
6) You state that the reason why chess takes skill, is because it doesn't use speed or accuracy, and those are key parts to what "skill" means, the ability to out manuever, out perform, and out think everyone else. Chess doesn't rely solely on quickness, true, but it is a part, why else would the championship chess leagues require you to use a clock and follow strict time requirements (meaning you have to be quick, you cant just sit for 5 hours and think).
Ok i'll give you that one i wasn't talking about pro league chess i was talking about the commonly know features of the game worldwide and quickness isn't one of them but nontheless it is a chess feature
You seam to have a TOTAL bias against people who play video games, thinking that games (in general) don't take skill, because it isn't something that you can repeat in real life (IE slaying dragons etc), but games use dexterity (the ability to out click / out manuever your oponents), accuracy (the ability to not only move your mouse quickly, but to move them to the right place), and plenty of ingenuity (the ability to think quickly on your feet [or butt as the case may be] and be able to do complexe rationalities while on the move, to be able to determine what you should do, how, and when. Basically, the ability to out think your opponent).
If the aforementioned items are not what determine "Skill" for you, I suggest you go and look it up in the dictionary. Or maybe go see a theropist.
If i'm biased against people that play games then i'm biased towards myself too because i am a gamer myself which in turn makes this some sort of split personallity disorder But i guess that's just your opinion i'm only biased as far as people like you are concerned, that's the sort of people that take the whole gaming thing a bit to seriously ( talking about skills and 'out clicking'[WTF does that even mean] their opponent)and not so on it's fun side.
Therapist???Nah, doesn't work too expensive. I prefer my local bar that has one of those bartenders that know how to listen (now that's an actual skill) and who knows maybe i'll get lucky enough and find a chick that's drunk enough to come home with me
First off, I am from the USA, so we call it a Resume (and yes I have one), second off, you can infact put gaming achievements on certain resumes, for instance if you were trying to get into the gaming industry, such as Quality Assurance or Design, if you won a world championship at First Person Shooters, they would be someone inclined to listen to your point of view on how to make a good First Person Shooter, or equipment to go along with said games (such as Infinity with his brand of Sound Cards and Head Sets).
Now would I put that I had a level 80 Mage on my resume to Kinkos, probably not, that would get you laughed out the door. (and no I dont play wow).
Resume?? Really i thought you didn't like the French over there JK ! Strangely enough i don't have any other objections with this paragraph.
And why do I think you dislike gamers? Because you mock gaming in general, you degenerate it down to just "point and click", and to a certain degree it is, for those who are less inclined to know better (you). I play first person shooters mainly, I am talking about America's Army, Battlefield, Call of Duty, and the like, if you go into one of those games, and think that who wins has nothing to do with skill, then thats probably cause you are never the winner.
Mocking??? No sir i just don't elevate it to the level that many do, for me it's just a game nothing more, nothing less. I don't build my life around it i just insert it in whenever i so please.Yes FPS are my favorite type of games next to RPG especially when i gather with a few friends and have a LAN party at some after midnight hour on a Saturday night after we all had our beers and are wasted enough.Sometimes i win and most times i lose but i enjoy it regardless,cause hey, it's just a game
"Care to explain to me how exactly is pressing the mouse button really fast while strafing is a skill??"
I will, because it can be broken down to Hand Eye Coordination. Me being able to move my aim reticle over your head, and pull the trigger takes the same brain work that a Drag Racer uses to see a green light, and hit the gas while shifting gears in order to beat his opponent by fractions of a second, just like I get a headshot on you by just a fraction of a second before you can shoot back.
"Games are supposed to be fun first the instant that 'professionalism' is added the fun factor goes right out the window for me cause soon after we have people running around flaunting their ' game achievements' and 'uber elite status' demanding,some times, recognition for things that nobody but them could possibly care"
Once again, you bring in personality traits. You assume that because some people are better then others, they will/have to flaunt it. You recognize that there are people who are better, but you don't recognize WHY there are people who are better. Tell me this, if it isn't skill, then what is it? If you and I are going against each other, and all outstanding factors are equal (gear, level, etc) and I win by a large margin, WHY did that happen? Lets say we go at it again, and the same result happens, WHY did I win? Luck? Fate? No pal, I think its because I am better, thus I am more skilled then you are at the game. Why are you so reluctant to admit that skill does factor into it?
You beat me 1 time i say : it's luck, 2 times: coincidence, 3 times: is fate. However every dog has it's day and eventually i will get back at you 1,2,3 times...So what are you gonna say then?"Gee i guess you are more skilful than me.." or "You just got lucky ,i'll get you next time" hmmm i wonder......
"If i'm biased against people that play games then i'm biased towards myself too"
I appologize, I misworded what I wanted to say, let me rephrase. You aren't biased against gamers, you are biased against gamers who are better then you. Whether they flaunt it or not, you shrug it off as something along the lines of "luck" and say it doesn't "take skill" because you don't want to admit it to yourself, so you make excuses, and you dodge the real issue, and it doesn't matter how much you get proven wrong, you aren't going to admit it, so I am just going to end this little rant now. Have fun :P
Again i must repeat myself i treat a game as a game should be treated and that's as a game.If i shrug it off everything alongside the lines of "luck" as you claim then can i claim that you are to prompt to declare every "victory" over some "n00b" that you achieve due to your "skillz" at the game regardless whether or not he hit a lagspike at that point or he got distracted by some external source and you will be equally prompt to call him "lucky" the next time he "pwnz" you thus contradicting yourself when you talk about "game skillz"??Or is that not in your realm of possibilities to happen? See?? 2 can play this game...
Still you're right about 1 thing this is getting a bit and that's unfair towards the OP of the thread, so i'm willing to give it a rest as long as you are, besides i think we offered this community enough entertainment for the day if you want to continue this discussion feel free to pm me...
Yes they are both games but only one of them has 1)a world championship 2)a world champion 3) can look good in your CV 4)exists in both RL and VL 5) has professionals (people that make money playing it) at it. Besides chess isn't a game of speed and accuracy it's a game of patience and yes predicting your opponents next move,personally i get a headache after only an hour of playing chess. I hope Darkfall will be the same. I hope not, getting a headache after an hour of playing doesn't sound too appealing to me
Clearly you have a problem with playing video games (which makes me wonder why you are on MMORPG.Com, but I digress)
i wonder how you ended up with this conclusion but for the sake of conversation i shall accept it for now
Think about what you are saying, before you type it please.
Right back at you
1) Many Video Games have world championships (I was almost flown to Korea 2 years ago to participate in a World Championship for a FPS video game, so your wrong on the first one)
Yeah i just found out about this one and i am a bit shocked honestly
2) If there are world championships (and there are) then there are also victors, who then become the world champions, so you are wrong on the second one too (I know the people who won the WC for that game, I hate them for going instead of me -.- lol)
Watch my answer above
3) Dunno what a CV is, might wanna clarify on your acronyms :P
You're either to young to know what a CV is or too rich anyone applying for a job needs one 'Curriculum Vitae' search it up in a dictionary
4) That statement is just ignorant, I mean seriously, saying that it doesn't take skill because there aren't trolls and goblins running around in real life for you to kill is just pathetic.
Care to explain to me how exactly is pressing the mouse button really fast while strafing is a skill??
5) There are tons of profesionals, someone posted about Fatality, he is a profesional gamer, and there are profesional gaming teams, who are on TV (and yea, there are shows about people playing Dead or Alive, and Counter strike/various other games) and teams get paid for winning, especially when they win the championship of their league/whatever, so you are WRONG AGAIN.
Now see i found out just a few minutes ago and i still lol at this term professional gamer. Games are supposed to be fun first the instant that 'professionalism' is added the fun factor goes right out the window for me cause soon after we have people running around flaunting their ' game achievements' and 'uber elite status' demanding,some times, recognition for things that nobody but them could possibly care
6) You state that the reason why chess takes skill, is because it doesn't use speed or accuracy, and those are key parts to what "skill" means, the ability to out manuever, out perform, and out think everyone else. Chess doesn't rely solely on quickness, true, but it is a part, why else would the championship chess leagues require you to use a clock and follow strict time requirements (meaning you have to be quick, you cant just sit for 5 hours and think).
Ok i'll give you that one i wasn't talking about pro league chess i was talking about the commonly know features of the game worldwide and quickness isn't one of them but nontheless it is a chess feature
You seam to have a TOTAL bias against people who play video games, thinking that games (in general) don't take skill, because it isn't something that you can repeat in real life (IE slaying dragons etc), but games use dexterity (the ability to out click / out manuever your oponents), accuracy (the ability to not only move your mouse quickly, but to move them to the right place), and plenty of ingenuity (the ability to think quickly on your feet [or butt as the case may be] and be able to do complexe rationalities while on the move, to be able to determine what you should do, how, and when. Basically, the ability to out think your opponent).
If the aforementioned items are not what determine "Skill" for you, I suggest you go and look it up in the dictionary. Or maybe go see a theropist.
If i'm biased against people that play games then i'm biased towards myself too because i am a gamer myself which in turn makes this some sort of split personallity disorder But i guess that's just your opinion i'm only biased as far as people like you are concerned, that's the sort of people that take the whole gaming thing a bit to seriously ( talking about skills and 'out clicking'[WTF does that even mean] their opponent)and not so on it's fun side.
Therapist???Nah, doesn't work too expensive. I prefer my local bar that has one of those bartenders that know how to listen (now that's an actual skill) and who knows maybe i'll get lucky enough and find a chick that's drunk enough to come home with me
First off, I am from the USA, so we call it a Resume (and yes I have one), second off, you can infact put gaming achievements on certain resumes, for instance if you were trying to get into the gaming industry, such as Quality Assurance or Design, if you won a world championship at First Person Shooters, they would be someone inclined to listen to your point of view on how to make a good First Person Shooter, or equipment to go along with said games (such as Infinity with his brand of Sound Cards and Head Sets).
Now would I put that I had a level 80 Mage on my resume to Kinkos, probably not, that would get you laughed out the door. (and no I dont play wow).
Resume?? Really i thought you didn't like the French over there JK ! Strangely enough i don't have any other objections with this paragraph.
And why do I think you dislike gamers? Because you mock gaming in general, you degenerate it down to just "point and click", and to a certain degree it is, for those who are less inclined to know better (you). I play first person shooters mainly, I am talking about America's Army, Battlefield, Call of Duty, and the like, if you go into one of those games, and think that who wins has nothing to do with skill, then thats probably cause you are never the winner.
Mocking??? No sir i just don't elevate it to the level that many do, for me it's just a game nothing more, nothing less. I don't build my life around it i just insert it in whenever i so please.Yes FPS are my favorite type of games next to RPG especially when i gather with a few friends and have a LAN party at some after midnight hour on a Saturday night after we all had our beers and are wasted enough.Sometimes i win and most times i lose but i enjoy it regardless,cause hey, it's just a game
"Care to explain to me how exactly is pressing the mouse button really fast while strafing is a skill??"
I will, because it can be broken down to Hand Eye Coordination. Me being able to move my aim reticle over your head, and pull the trigger takes the same brain work that a Drag Racer uses to see a green light, and hit the gas while shifting gears in order to beat his opponent by fractions of a second, just like I get a headshot on you by just a fraction of a second before you can shoot back.
"Games are supposed to be fun first the instant that 'professionalism' is added the fun factor goes right out the window for me cause soon after we have people running around flaunting their ' game achievements' and 'uber elite status' demanding,some times, recognition for things that nobody but them could possibly care"
Once again, you bring in personality traits. You assume that because some people are better then others, they will/have to flaunt it. You recognize that there are people who are better, but you don't recognize WHY there are people who are better. Tell me this, if it isn't skill, then what is it? If you and I are going against each other, and all outstanding factors are equal (gear, level, etc) and I win by a large margin, WHY did that happen? Lets say we go at it again, and the same result happens, WHY did I win? Luck? Fate? No pal, I think its because I am better, thus I am more skilled then you are at the game. Why are you so reluctant to admit that skill does factor into it?
You beat me 1 time i say : it's luck, 2 times: coincidence, 3 times: is fate. However every dog has it's day and eventually i will get back at you 1,2,3 times...So what are you gonna say then?"Gee i guess you are more skilful than me.." or "You just got lucky ,i'll get you next time" hmmm i wonder......
"If i'm biased against people that play games then i'm biased towards myself too"
I appologize, I misworded what I wanted to say, let me rephrase. You aren't biased against gamers, you are biased against gamers who are better then you. Whether they flaunt it or not, you shrug it off as something along the lines of "luck" and say it doesn't "take skill" because you don't want to admit it to yourself, so you make excuses, and you dodge the real issue, and it doesn't matter how much you get proven wrong, you aren't going to admit it, so I am just going to end this little rant now. Have fun :P
Again i must repeat myself i treat a game as a game should be treated and that's as a game.If i shrug it off everything alongside the lines of "luck" as you claim then can i claim that you are to prompt to declare every "victory" over some "n00b" that you achieve due to your "skillz" at the game regardless whether or not he hit a lagspike at that point or he got distracted by some external source and you will be equally prompt to call him "lucky" the next time he "pwnz" you thus contradicting yourself when you talk about "game skillz"??Or is that not in your realm of possibilities to happen? See?? 2 can play this game...
Still you're right about 1 thing this is getting a bit and that's unfair towards the OP of the thread, so i'm willing to give it a rest as long as you are, besides i think we offered this community enough entertainment for the day if you want to continue this discussion feel free to pm me...
I agree that we should get back on topic, but I do feel inclined to clear something up.
Everyone has their off days, and their on days, true enough, if I win some, then you win some, then I am not a more skillful player then you, we are at the same skill level. Because even when two people are at the same skill level, it won't end up in a constant tie, you will win some times, and you will lose some times, that is the law of averages. But what I was refering to, wasn't two equal opponents, just two players on equal ground (with different skill levels), there is a difference. Even if one person has far more skill then the other, he won't win every time, like I said, luck does play a factor, but if someone is more skilled they will still win with a higher average then the other, it wont end up 5-5, it will end up more like 9-1 or 8-2. Assuming that two people of equal level and stats/gear will always end up in a draw (or eventually a 5-5 draw) in a skill based game, is just hopeful thinking.
The thing is, you are side stepping the issue of skills being part of the game, and you are coming up with absurd scenarios to make an excuse as to why I would kill someone (As in lag spikes, and outside factors causing all of my excess kills). You seem to assume that if I kill someone once, I assume I am better then them, and if they kill me back, I make an excuse as per "luck". I don't consider myself better then someone until I have beaten them so many times, (in a large ratio, not 6-4, more like 9-1 or 8-2 ratio) and not until I understand their tactics (on this map, do they like to go here, do they like to go there, do they wait for me to come to them, do they rush at me, what gun do they prefer, the sniper, the SMG, etc etc) until I have analyzed their game play, and understand how they play. Until then its just a "getting to know eachother period", which I often go through with clan mates and friends. I know some of my friends are better then me at some things (aka Sniping, which I counteract with rushing and hit and run tactics) while I am better then them at other things (IE close quarters, anticipating where they will go, etc), I got to know them, I got to know how they play, I anticipate their moves, I play better then them, more skilled then them. I don't just play with random people and assume I am better, which is where you seam to be getting confused
Yes you can chalk things up to "Its a game, I play it for fun", well like chess, I like to see how well I can do, and when I try to do my best, and succeed, I enjoy the game, and when I lose, I try to learn from my mistakes, and do better next time. Which is where "Skill" comes into the game for me.
Let me put things like this, you said you do LANS and play a FPS. If you went one on one with someone in a FPS, you both had the same gun, do you think that it would constantly end in a 5-5 tie? Or do you think if you were playing someone who was better then you (more skilled) or less skilled then you, one of you would take the lead, and win consistently more then the other? What you are saying, is that in video games, if two people both have the same stuff, then skill doesn't matter, it will end in a tie. When if you look at any competitive ladders (TWL, CAL) that is not the case, the better more skilled team comes out on top, because of just that, they are more skilled.
What things keep boiling down to, is you assume there is no skill involved in the game, because you prefer to not think of it in a skillful way, or a strategic way, but more of a "lets go have fun and mess around way" which is a perfectly legit way to play a game, most people play their video games that way;however, assuming that just because you play a game a certain way, that no one else can play it a different way, is just a little bit egotistical :P
Anyways, if you want me to clear up any more of my previous post, I can, or if you want to just let things go, thats cool too. But no offense, from my part of the argument, it is like trying to explain science to the Amish
You mean like... umm... like you could in Britain???? Britain's secure area extended all the way out to the mountains (to the passage to x-roads). You had a huge secure area, where you could work as a lumberjack, a miner, a fisherman - in fact all crafter/gatherer types that you wanted. In 100% security of insta-killing guards.
Maybe they changed it later, but at release, the safe zone was only like 50 feet from town, so you couldn't gather resources in a safe area.
How long did you play the game for? I think that'd help us see where you're coming from.
Not to be insulting, but maybe you're an example of someone that UO was too difficult for. UO's learning curve was higher than most MMOs. You know, there were sooo many places in town to mine and such. And Britain wasn't the only town, why did you always go there?
From what you've written, you'd be the classic example of someone not learning how to play the game. It's pretty simple. You went to the Britain Graveyard and got ganked. You came back to life and went back to Britain Graveyard to get ganked - rinse repeat. Why didn't you STOP GOING TO THE BRITAIN GRAVEYARD?
What was so damn good about the Britain Graveyard? There were so many other places you could have gone and be left alone in.
You are the reason carebear games exist. UO didn't fail, you failed. Just because you thought the game sucked and went somewhere else doesn't mean everybody else did. Hundreds of thousands of people continued to subscribe while you left.
Darkfall might fail, but you're going to have to come up with a different reason for why it will fail. If Darkfall fails, it will be because it didn't reproduce UO's ruleset well enough. If it manages to successfully reproduce Pre-Trammel UO, there's no friggin way it would fail. So far, no game has managed to do that, though and THAT"s why their open-pvp system failed.
It does take skill to play computer games , it may not be skill that can be usefully applied to other areas but it is skill none the less. Ego if no skill is required why don't you enter professional competitions? This guys made $500,000 doing it, should be easy for you to do the same. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatal1ty Come back when you have won a few and post some pics of the cheques.
Still i'm not so sure whether i would come back here or anywhere for that matter to brag about it since there is really nothing to brag about, but i will tell you if i ever get to climb Everest !!!!
I think your point is more that being good at a videogame is nothing to brag about. I agree with you there. The only guys who should be bragging about being good at a videogame are the ones making cash off of it.
I think the dictionary basically sums up that, yes, being good at a videogame can be a skill:
skill
–noun
1. the ability, coming from one's knowledge, practice, aptitude, etc., to do something well
. You went to the Britain Graveyard and got ganked. You came back to life and went back to Britain Graveyard to get ganked - rinse repeat. Why didn't you STOP GOING TO THE BRITAIN GRAVEYARD? .
i never got ganked in the Britain graveyard. I have no Idea where you got that from.
I already said why I left the game. Most people on the server quit because of all the ganking. Then the gankers quit because there was nobody left to gank.
I would walk around in all three dungeons for like a half an hour and never saw anyone. The server was totally empty so I quit.
UO had 100,000 subscribers within 6 months of release...that was a major surprise to them....yes I think UO's highest subscription numbers came post trammel....EA brought in trammel to try and compete with EQ regardles of what the devs say.....they seen EQ number sky-rocket and thought with trammel they could keep there 100k that were in fellucia and get carebears to join trammel.........theres no facts to back this up ...UO was not a failure pre-trammel.....if there was a MMO hall of fame this game would be the first one inducted because of pre-trammel.
when UO came out it was the only MMORPG, it had no competitiion. So peopled stayed even though it was a total gankfest. When other options appeared, ala Everquest, everyone left.
I remember when DAOC opened up full pvp servers, they failed miserably
Asherons call darktide has failed
Shadowbane has failed
Every game with fully open pvp and full looting has failed.
And yet you keep saying how everyone loves it?
Dude, get some rational reasoning ability.
As already stated, Everquest was a newer game with better graphics and a more familiar class and level based system.
The PvP servers for DAoC and AC were an alternate (read afterthought) rule set. It was a bolt-on; the game was not built from the ground up for FFA PvP. Consequently, it is no surprise that those servers were not as succesful as the primary ruleset.
Shadowbane was a technical disaster, bug-city. Plus the level based system and overly complex character development made for a lot of un-even fights.
If you think the only factor determining the success/failure of the titles that you mentioned is that they had non-consentual pvp then you are an idiot. No really you are.
Some people like MMO PvP and some people don't. Also, already stated, Trammel was EA's answer to a perceived problem. Koster is on record saying that yes rampant PK'ing was a problem and that the stat loss for murderers had reduced it to, in his opinion, appropriate levels but EA went ahead with Trammel anyway. The version of history depends on who you talk to.
BTW, if you have such a hate-on for PvP why are you trolling in the DF forum?
UO had 100,000 subscribers within 6 months of release...that was a major surprise to them....yes I think UO's highest subscription numbers came post trammel....EA brought in trammel to try and compete with EQ regardles of what the devs say.....they seen EQ number sky-rocket and thought with trammel they could keep there 100k that were in fellucia and get carebears to join trammel.........theres no facts to back this up ...UO was not a failure pre-trammel.....if there was a MMO hall of fame this game would be the first one inducted because of pre-trammel.
when UO came out it was the only MMORPG, it had no competitiion. So peopled stayed even though it was a total gankfest. When other options appeared, ala Everquest, everyone left.
I remember when DAOC opened up full pvp servers, they failed miserably
Asherons call darktide has failed
Shadowbane has failed
Every game with fully open pvp and full looting has failed.
And yet you keep saying how everyone loves it?
Dude, get some rational reasoning ability.
As already stated, Everquest was a newer game with better graphics and a more familiar class and level based system.
The PvP servers for DAoC and AC were an alternate (read afterthought) rule set. It was a bolt-on; the game was not built from the ground up for FFA PvP. Consequently, it is no surprise that those servers were not as succesful as the primary ruleset.
Shadowbane was a technical disaster, bug-city. Plus the level based system and overly complex character development made for a lot of un-even fights.
If you think the only factor determining the success/failure of the titles that you mentioned is that they had non-consentual pvp then you are an idiot. No really you are.
Some people like MMO PvP and some people don't. Also, already stated, Trammel was EA's answer to a perceived problem. Koster is on record saying that yes rampant PK'ing was a problem and that the stat loss for murderers had reduced it to, in his opinion, appropriate levels but EA went ahead with Trammel anyway. The version of history depends on who you talk to.
BTW, if you have such a hate-on for PvP why are you trolling in the DF forum?
Many are just on a crusade they hope they can bring down all hardcore pvp, damn moralist's:(
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009..... In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
If this game fails it won't be because of ffa pvp or full loot. It will be because of either technical problems or gameplay problems such as unresponsive character controls, features implemented in ways that cause annoyance to the user ect.
We don't know what the payment scheme is yet either, if mt's are involved (which I think is extremely unlikely) that would be one thing that would guarentee that I would not play it. I would probably never look at a mmorpg again if this had mt's, lol.
DF doesn't exisit anyway, so why are people discussing it. Its all in the imagination of the developers.
Haha! I hope not.
But shit, I've always wanted to make an MMORPG (I think I'd make a damn fine one) and I thought about making a fake "dream game" in hopes that maybe someone would copy it or even crazier, finance it. That'd be something if the Darkfall people actually DID that. I'd still have to give em a hand, but I'd be seriously disappointed.
Also, the reason Pre-Trammel uo DIDN'T fail isn't simply because it had non-consenual PvP outside of town, it's because the PvP itself was brilliant.
No MMORPG has matched UO's timing/human-skill based combat system. Certain spells/attacks were more effective if followed by certain attacks. Things like poison, cure, paralyze/trapped-boxes all added to the PvP. The fact that you could cast an Explosion spell that wouldn't go off until 3seconds later and then equip a weapon and try and hit them with 2 attacks at the same time - that shit was awesome.
Are there any other games like this? Will Darkfall have this?
Comments
EVE is not fully open pvp. You are safe in high sec space. Thats the way most people want it. They want areas that are safe, where you can gather resources, and kill mobs.
They don't want a game where 50 people are standing outside all the exits to town, and kill you the second you leave the city
Anybody who is playing Eve and staying in 5.0 and up isnt even playing the game and may as well be playing X3 Reunion...
LOOK AT MA DF GAMING SKILLZ: CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK STRAFE LEFT, STRAFE RIGHT CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK F1,F2 CLICK CLICK CLICK..........
It takes skill to play guitar, it takes skill to cook (good anyways), also to fly a plane, climb a mountain even to play chess just to name a few.For all those and many more it takes some amount of skill.
It DOESN'T take any skill though in order to play a video-game mmo or otherwise
I disagree.
Well that's your opinion you're entitled to one.Opinions are like noses,everybody has one.
Skill is a learned practice. Something you have to learn in order to be good at it.
Skill and talent are not the same (unless you count having a knack for learning quickly as a talent). I think that videogames DO involve skill. If not, why are some people much better at certain games than others? It's because they took the time to learn.
Talent and skill are not the same, yes, can you be both or either of those whilst playing guitar? Yes! Driving a car?Yes! Playing chess?Yes!!! Does it take any skill or talent to play a video game? Sadly no! Proof? Grab a 10 year old kid and place it behind a computer screen with any game of your choice mmo or otherwise and within 1 1/2 hour tops the kid will figure out the game system but place the same kid behind a wheel, playing a complete song on the guitar or at a chess board and it's gonna take a bit more than 1 1/2 hour to learn those right talented or not.
Is being good at a game something to admire? Probably not, but it is still a skill.
You're half right there..
In UO, you did have to be skilled at the game. You could have 10 people, give them all the same stats and equipment and make them all fight - the most skilled guy would win. Hell, 1 skilled guy vs 9 not-so-skilled guys could win. That was what made UO great. It was based on your knowledge/ability to play the game and not your class/race/level/uber-magic-wand-of-carebear. Sounds like skill to me.
Sounds to me more like-the guy that could press the mouse button the fastest whilst not staying at the same spot while he was doing that would win- this hardly sounds like skill to me. 1 skilled guy vs 9 non skilled guys win??????
1 thing i learned watching the nature channel: 1lion vs 1 hyena=lion wins, 1 lion vs 9 hyenas= hyenas eat lion stew for supper. In no game to this day can anyone claim what you just claimed sir, skill or no skill, especially if they all have the same equipment, are the same lvl and there are no classes.....You sir are like the Hindenburg baloon, full of hot air!Seriously, how did you do it? Killed them when they were afk? 
Chess and UO are both games. Whether digital or otherwise - the person who is able to anticipate his opponent's moves faster and more accurately usually wins.
Yes they are both games but only one of them has 1)a world championship 2)a world champion 3) can look good in your CV 4)exists in both RL and VL 5) has professionals (people that make money playing it) at it. Besides chess isn't a game of speed and accuracy it's a game of patience and yes predicting your opponents next move,personally i get a headache after only an hour of playing chess.
I hope Darkfall will be the same.
I hope not, getting a headache after an hour of playing doesn't sound too appealing to me
Iiii-iiiiiit's.... me!!! *Hooray*
It does take skill to play computer games , it may not be skill that can be usefully applied to other areas but it is skill none the less. Ego if no skill is required why don't you enter professional competitions? This guys made $500,000 doing it, should be easy for you to do the same.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatal1ty
Come back when you have won a few and post some pics of the cheques.
The high sec's in Eve aren't completely safe. There isn't much value in being in high sec anyway. All the places with opportunities to make the big cash are in the scariest of places.
Sent me an email if you want me to mail you some pizza rolls.
Clearly you have a problem with playing video games (which makes me wonder why you are on MMORPG.Com, but I digress)
Think about what you are saying, before you type it please.
1) Many Video Games have world championships (I was almost flown to Korea 2 years ago to participate in a World Championship for a FPS video game, so your wrong on the first one)
2) If there are world championships (and there are) then there are also victors, who then become the world champions, so you are wrong on the second one too (I know the people who won the WC for that game, I hate them for going instead of me -.- lol)
3) Dunno what a CV is, might wanna clarify on your acronyms :P
4) That statement is just ignorant, I mean seriously, saying that it doesn't take skill because there aren't trolls and goblins running around in real life for you to kill is just pathetic.
5) There are tons of profesionals, someone posted about Fatality, he is a profesional gamer, and there are profesional gaming teams, who are on TV (and yea, there are shows about people playing Dead or Alive, and Counter strike/various other games) and teams get paid for winning, especially when they win the championship of their league/whatever, so you are WRONG AGAIN.
6) You state that the reason why chess takes skill, is because it doesn't use speed or accuracy, and those are key parts to what "skill" means, the ability to out manuever, out perform, and out think everyone else. Chess doesn't rely solely on quickness, true, but it is a part, why else would the championship chess leagues require you to use a clock and follow strict time requirements (meaning you have to be quick, you cant just sit for 5 hours and think).
You seam to have a TOTAL bias against people who play video games, thinking that games (in general) don't take skill, because it isn't something that you can repeat in real life (IE slaying dragons etc), but games use dexterity (the ability to out click / out manuever your oponents), accuracy (the ability to not only move your mouse quickly, but to move them to the right place), and plenty of ingenuity (the ability to think quickly on your feet [or butt as the case may be] and be able to do complexe rationalities while on the move, to be able to determine what you should do, how, and when. Basically, the ability to out think your opponent).
If the aforementioned items are not what determine "Skill" for you, I suggest you go and look it up in the dictionary. Or maybe go see a theropist.
Ok you got me stumped there. I had no idea really...500,000$ for playing games???? They definitely don't play with a full deck on the other side of the ocean. But hey who am i to judge them, if they got the cash and they don't know anything better to do with it they can give it away like that...............whatever
Tell you what if we ever get one round the area that i live and i have the time to do so i think i'll give it a shot......... EAAAAASY MONEY!!
Still i'm not so sure whether i would come back here or anywhere for that matter to brag about it since there is really nothing to brag about
, but i will tell you if i ever get to climb Everest !!!!
Iiii-iiiiiit's.... me!!! *Hooray*
EVE is not fully open pvp. You are safe in high sec space. Thats the way most people want it. They want areas that are safe, where you can gather resources, and kill mobs.
They don't want a game where 50 people are standing outside all the exits to town, and kill you the second you leave the city
You mean like... umm... like you could in Britain????
Britain's secure area extended all the way out to the mountains (to the passage to x-roads). You had a huge secure area, where you could work as a lumberjack, a miner, a fisherman - in fact all crafter/gatherer types that you wanted.
In 100% security of insta-killing guards.
Maybe they changed it later, but at release, the safe zone was only like 50 feet from town, so you couldn't gather resources in a safe area.
Maybe they changed it later, but at release, the safe zone was only like 50 feet from town, so you couldn't gather resources in a safe area.
Yes thats how it was at release ......Are you sure played the same game?
Yes thats how it was at release ......Are you sure played the same game?
yes i did, you would run north, and the graveyard was out of the safe zone. You had to run farther north to get to the mountains. gathering in the mountains wasn't safe at all.
And all the trees near the city had already been chopped down. So you had to go way past the safe zone to find trees that hadn't been chopped.
Yes thats how it was at release ......Are you sure played the same game?
yes i did, you would run north, and the graveyard was out of the safe zone. You had to run farther north to get to the mountains. gathering in the mountains wasn't safe at all.
And all the trees near the city had already been chopped down. So you had to go way past the safe zone to find trees that hadn't been chopped.
There were many areas to work your fighting and craft sklills in under the safety of town guards Cove was good for mining ,Yew for forestry ,leatherworking Fishing many towns, magery in moomnglow(lotsa of animals here also) and alchemy... And many were there to choose from creation to start at..
Clearly you have a problem with playing video games (which makes me wonder why you are on MMORPG.Com, but I digress)
i wonder how you ended up with this conclusion but for the sake of conversation i shall accept it for now
Think about what you are saying, before you type it please.
Right back at you
1) Many Video Games have world championships (I was almost flown to Korea 2 years ago to participate in a World Championship for a FPS video game, so your wrong on the first one)
Yeah i just found out about this one and i am a bit shocked honestly
2) If there are world championships (and there are) then there are also victors, who then become the world champions, so you are wrong on the second one too (I know the people who won the WC for that game, I hate them for going instead of me -.- lol)
Watch my answer above
3) Dunno what a CV is, might wanna clarify on your acronyms :P
You're either to young to know what a CV is or too rich anyone applying for a job needs one 'Curriculum Vitae' search it up in a dictionary
4) That statement is just ignorant, I mean seriously, saying that it doesn't take skill because there aren't trolls and goblins running around in real life for you to kill is just pathetic.
Care to explain to me how exactly is pressing the mouse button really fast while strafing is a skill??
5) There are tons of profesionals, someone posted about Fatality, he is a profesional gamer, and there are profesional gaming teams, who are on TV (and yea, there are shows about people playing Dead or Alive, and Counter strike/various other games) and teams get paid for winning, especially when they win the championship of their league/whatever, so you are WRONG AGAIN.
Now see i found out just a few minutes ago and i still lol at this term professional gamer. Games are supposed to be fun first the instant that 'professionalism' is added the fun factor goes right out the window for me cause soon after we have people running around flaunting their ' game achievements' and 'uber elite status' demanding,some times, recognition for things that nobody but them could possibly care
6) You state that the reason why chess takes skill, is because it doesn't use speed or accuracy, and those are key parts to what "skill" means, the ability to out manuever, out perform, and out think everyone else. Chess doesn't rely solely on quickness, true, but it is a part, why else would the championship chess leagues require you to use a clock and follow strict time requirements (meaning you have to be quick, you cant just sit for 5 hours and think).
Ok i'll give you that one i wasn't talking about pro league chess i was talking about the commonly known features of the game worldwide and quickness isn't one of them but nontheless it is a chess feature
You seam to have a TOTAL bias against people who play video games, thinking that games (in general) don't take skill, because it isn't something that you can repeat in real life (IE slaying dragons etc), but games use dexterity (the ability to out click / out manuever your oponents), accuracy (the ability to not only move your mouse quickly, but to move them to the right place), and plenty of ingenuity (the ability to think quickly on your feet [or butt as the case may be] and be able to do complexe rationalities while on the move, to be able to determine what you should do, how, and when. Basically, the ability to out think your opponent).
If the aforementioned items are not what determine "Skill" for you, I suggest you go and look it up in the dictionary. Or maybe go see a theropist.
If i'm biased against people that play games then i'm biased towards myself too because i am a gamer myself which in turn makes this some sort of split personallity disorder
But i guess that's just your opinion i'm only biased as far as people like you are concerned, that's the sort of people that take the whole gaming thing a bit to seriously ( talking about skills and 'out clicking'[WTF does that even mean??] their opponent???!?)and not so on it's fun side.
Therapist???Nah, doesn't work too expensive. I prefer my local bar that has one of those bartenders that know how to listen (now that's an actual skill) and who knows maybe i'll get lucky enough and find a chick that's drunk enough to come home with me
Iiii-iiiiiit's.... me!!! *Hooray*
Clearly you have a problem with playing video games (which makes me wonder why you are on MMORPG.Com, but I digress)
i wonder how you ended up with this conclusion but for the sake of conversation i shall accept it for now
Think about what you are saying, before you type it please.
Right back at you
1) Many Video Games have world championships (I was almost flown to Korea 2 years ago to participate in a World Championship for a FPS video game, so your wrong on the first one)
Yeah i just found out about this one and i am a bit shocked honestly
2) If there are world championships (and there are) then there are also victors, who then become the world champions, so you are wrong on the second one too (I know the people who won the WC for that game, I hate them for going instead of me -.- lol)
Watch my answer above
3) Dunno what a CV is, might wanna clarify on your acronyms :P
You're either to young to know what a CV is or too rich anyone applying for a job needs one 'Curriculum Vitae' search it up in a dictionary
4) That statement is just ignorant, I mean seriously, saying that it doesn't take skill because there aren't trolls and goblins running around in real life for you to kill is just pathetic.
Care to explain to me how exactly is pressing the mouse button really fast while strafing is a skill??
5) There are tons of profesionals, someone posted about Fatality, he is a profesional gamer, and there are profesional gaming teams, who are on TV (and yea, there are shows about people playing Dead or Alive, and Counter strike/various other games) and teams get paid for winning, especially when they win the championship of their league/whatever, so you are WRONG AGAIN.
Now see i found out just a few minutes ago and i still lol at this term professional gamer. Games are supposed to be fun first the instant that 'professionalism' is added the fun factor goes right out the window for me cause soon after we have people running around flaunting their ' game achievements' and 'uber elite status' demanding,some times, recognition for things that nobody but them could possibly care
6) You state that the reason why chess takes skill, is because it doesn't use speed or accuracy, and those are key parts to what "skill" means, the ability to out manuever, out perform, and out think everyone else. Chess doesn't rely solely on quickness, true, but it is a part, why else would the championship chess leagues require you to use a clock and follow strict time requirements (meaning you have to be quick, you cant just sit for 5 hours and think).
Ok i'll give you that one i wasn't talking about pro league chess i was talking about the commonly know features of the game worldwide and quickness isn't one of them but nontheless it is a chess feature
You seam to have a TOTAL bias against people who play video games, thinking that games (in general) don't take skill, because it isn't something that you can repeat in real life (IE slaying dragons etc), but games use dexterity (the ability to out click / out manuever your oponents), accuracy (the ability to not only move your mouse quickly, but to move them to the right place), and plenty of ingenuity (the ability to think quickly on your feet [or butt as the case may be] and be able to do complexe rationalities while on the move, to be able to determine what you should do, how, and when. Basically, the ability to out think your opponent).
If the aforementioned items are not what determine "Skill" for you, I suggest you go and look it up in the dictionary. Or maybe go see a theropist.
If i'm biased against people that play games then i'm biased towards myself too because i am a gamer myself which in turn makes this some sort of split personallity disorder
But i guess that's just your opinion i'm only biased as far as people like you are concerned, that's the sort of people that take the whole gaming thing a bit to seriously ( talking about skills and 'out clicking'[WTF does that even mean] their opponent)and not so on it's fun side.
Therapist???Nah, doesn't work too expensive. I prefer my local bar that has one of those bartenders that know how to listen (now that's an actual skill) and who knows maybe i'll get lucky enough and find a chick that's drunk enough to come home with me
First off, I am from the USA, so we call it a Resume (and yes I have one), second off, you can infact put gaming achievements on certain resumes, for instance if you were trying to get into the gaming industry, such as Quality Assurance or Design, if you won a world championship at First Person Shooters, they would be someone inclined to listen to your point of view on how to make a good First Person Shooter, or equipment to go along with said games (such as Infinity with his brand of Sound Cards and Head Sets).
Now would I put that I had a level 80 Mage on my resume to Kinkos, probably not, that would get you laughed out the door. (and no I dont play wow).
And why do I think you dislike gamers? Because you mock gaming in general, you degenerate it down to just "point and click", and to a certain degree it is, for those who are less inclined to know better (you). I play first person shooters mainly, I am talking about America's Army, Battlefield, Call of Duty, and the like, if you go into one of those games, and think that who wins has nothing to do with skill, then thats probably cause you are never the winner.
"Care to explain to me how exactly is pressing the mouse button really fast while strafing is a skill??"
I will, because it can be broken down to Hand Eye Coordination. Me being able to move my aim reticle over your head, and pull the trigger takes the same brain work that a Drag Racer uses to see a green light, and hit the gas while shifting gears in order to beat his opponent by fractions of a second, just like I get a headshot on you by just a fraction of a second before you can shoot back.
"Games are supposed to be fun first the instant that 'professionalism' is added the fun factor goes right out the window for me cause soon after we have people running around flaunting their ' game achievements' and 'uber elite status' demanding,some times, recognition for things that nobody but them could possibly care"
Once again, you bring in personality traits. You assume that because some people are better then others, they will/have to flaunt it. You recognize that there are people who are better, but you don't recognize WHY there are people who are better. Tell me this, if it isn't skill, then what is it? If you and I are going against each other, and all outstanding factors are equal (gear, level, etc) and I win by a large margin, WHY did that happen? Lets say we go at it again, and the same result happens, WHY did I win? Luck? Fate? No pal, I think its because I am better, thus I am more skilled then you are at the game. Why are you so reluctant to admit that skill does factor into it?
"If i'm biased against people that play games then i'm biased towards myself too"
I appologize, I misworded what I wanted to say, let me rephrase. You aren't biased against gamers, you are biased against gamers who are better then you. Whether they flaunt it or not, you shrug it off as something along the lines of "luck" and say it doesn't "take skill" because you don't want to admit it to yourself, so you make excuses, and you dodge the real issue, and it doesn't matter how much you get proven wrong, you aren't going to admit it, so I am just going to end this little rant now. Have fun :P
Clearly you have a problem with playing video games (which makes me wonder why you are on MMORPG.Com, but I digress)
i wonder how you ended up with this conclusion but for the sake of conversation i shall accept it for now
Think about what you are saying, before you type it please.
Right back at you
1) Many Video Games have world championships (I was almost flown to Korea 2 years ago to participate in a World Championship for a FPS video game, so your wrong on the first one)
Yeah i just found out about this one and i am a bit shocked honestly
2) If there are world championships (and there are) then there are also victors, who then become the world champions, so you are wrong on the second one too (I know the people who won the WC for that game, I hate them for going instead of me -.- lol)
Watch my answer above
3) Dunno what a CV is, might wanna clarify on your acronyms :P
You're either to young to know what a CV is or too rich anyone applying for a job needs one 'Curriculum Vitae' search it up in a dictionary
4) That statement is just ignorant, I mean seriously, saying that it doesn't take skill because there aren't trolls and goblins running around in real life for you to kill is just pathetic.
Care to explain to me how exactly is pressing the mouse button really fast while strafing is a skill??
5) There are tons of profesionals, someone posted about Fatality, he is a profesional gamer, and there are profesional gaming teams, who are on TV (and yea, there are shows about people playing Dead or Alive, and Counter strike/various other games) and teams get paid for winning, especially when they win the championship of their league/whatever, so you are WRONG AGAIN.
Now see i found out just a few minutes ago and i still lol at this term professional gamer. Games are supposed to be fun first the instant that 'professionalism' is added the fun factor goes right out the window for me cause soon after we have people running around flaunting their ' game achievements' and 'uber elite status' demanding,some times, recognition for things that nobody but them could possibly care
6) You state that the reason why chess takes skill, is because it doesn't use speed or accuracy, and those are key parts to what "skill" means, the ability to out manuever, out perform, and out think everyone else. Chess doesn't rely solely on quickness, true, but it is a part, why else would the championship chess leagues require you to use a clock and follow strict time requirements (meaning you have to be quick, you cant just sit for 5 hours and think).
Ok i'll give you that one i wasn't talking about pro league chess i was talking about the commonly know features of the game worldwide and quickness isn't one of them but nontheless it is a chess feature
You seam to have a TOTAL bias against people who play video games, thinking that games (in general) don't take skill, because it isn't something that you can repeat in real life (IE slaying dragons etc), but games use dexterity (the ability to out click / out manuever your oponents), accuracy (the ability to not only move your mouse quickly, but to move them to the right place), and plenty of ingenuity (the ability to think quickly on your feet [or butt as the case may be] and be able to do complexe rationalities while on the move, to be able to determine what you should do, how, and when. Basically, the ability to out think your opponent).
If the aforementioned items are not what determine "Skill" for you, I suggest you go and look it up in the dictionary. Or maybe go see a theropist.
If i'm biased against people that play games then i'm biased towards myself too because i am a gamer myself which in turn makes this some sort of split personallity disorder
But i guess that's just your opinion i'm only biased as far as people like you are concerned, that's the sort of people that take the whole gaming thing a bit to seriously ( talking about skills and 'out clicking'[WTF does that even mean] their opponent)and not so on it's fun side.
Therapist???Nah, doesn't work too expensive. I prefer my local bar that has one of those bartenders that know how to listen (now that's an actual skill) and who knows maybe i'll get lucky enough and find a chick that's drunk enough to come home with me
First off, I am from the USA, so we call it a Resume (and yes I have one), second off, you can infact put gaming achievements on certain resumes, for instance if you were trying to get into the gaming industry, such as Quality Assurance or Design, if you won a world championship at First Person Shooters, they would be someone inclined to listen to your point of view on how to make a good First Person Shooter, or equipment to go along with said games (such as Infinity with his brand of Sound Cards and Head Sets).
Now would I put that I had a level 80 Mage on my resume to Kinkos, probably not, that would get you laughed out the door. (and no I dont play wow).
Resume?? Really i thought you didn't like the French over there
JK ! Strangely enough i don't have any other objections with this paragraph.
And why do I think you dislike gamers? Because you mock gaming in general, you degenerate it down to just "point and click", and to a certain degree it is, for those who are less inclined to know better (you). I play first person shooters mainly, I am talking about America's Army, Battlefield, Call of Duty, and the like, if you go into one of those games, and think that who wins has nothing to do with skill, then thats probably cause you are never the winner.
Mocking??? No sir i just don't elevate it to the level that many do, for me it's just a game nothing more, nothing less. I don't build my life around it i just insert it in whenever i so please.Yes FPS are my favorite type of games next to RPG especially when i gather with a few friends and have a LAN party at some after midnight hour on a Saturday night after we all had our beers and are wasted enough.Sometimes i win and most times i lose but i enjoy it regardless,cause hey, it's just a game
"Care to explain to me how exactly is pressing the mouse button really fast while strafing is a skill??"
I will, because it can be broken down to Hand Eye Coordination. Me being able to move my aim reticle over your head, and pull the trigger takes the same brain work that a Drag Racer uses to see a green light, and hit the gas while shifting gears in order to beat his opponent by fractions of a second, just like I get a headshot on you by just a fraction of a second before you can shoot back.
"Games are supposed to be fun first the instant that 'professionalism' is added the fun factor goes right out the window for me cause soon after we have people running around flaunting their ' game achievements' and 'uber elite status' demanding,some times, recognition for things that nobody but them could possibly care"
Once again, you bring in personality traits. You assume that because some people are better then others, they will/have to flaunt it. You recognize that there are people who are better, but you don't recognize WHY there are people who are better. Tell me this, if it isn't skill, then what is it? If you and I are going against each other, and all outstanding factors are equal (gear, level, etc) and I win by a large margin, WHY did that happen? Lets say we go at it again, and the same result happens, WHY did I win? Luck? Fate? No pal, I think its because I am better, thus I am more skilled then you are at the game. Why are you so reluctant to admit that skill does factor into it?
You beat me 1 time i say : it's luck, 2 times: coincidence, 3 times: is fate. However every dog has it's day and eventually i will get back at you 1,2,3 times...So what are you gonna say then?"Gee i guess you are more skilful than me.." or "You just got lucky ,i'll get you next time" hmmm i wonder......
"If i'm biased against people that play games then i'm biased towards myself too"
I appologize, I misworded what I wanted to say, let me rephrase. You aren't biased against gamers, you are biased against gamers who are better then you. Whether they flaunt it or not, you shrug it off as something along the lines of "luck" and say it doesn't "take skill" because you don't want to admit it to yourself, so you make excuses, and you dodge the real issue, and it doesn't matter how much you get proven wrong, you aren't going to admit it, so I am just going to end this little rant now. Have fun :P
Again i must repeat myself i treat a game as a game should be treated and that's as a game.If i shrug it off everything alongside the lines of "luck" as you claim then can i claim that you are to prompt to declare every "victory" over some "n00b" that you achieve due to your "skillz" at the game regardless whether or not he hit a lagspike at that point or he got distracted by some external source and you will be equally prompt to call him "lucky" the next time he "pwnz" you thus contradicting yourself when you talk about "game skillz"??Or is that not in your realm of possibilities to happen? See?? 2 can play this game...
Still you're right about 1 thing this is getting a bit
and that's unfair towards the OP of the thread, so i'm willing to give it a rest as long as you are, besides i think we offered this community enough entertainment for the day if you want to continue this discussion feel free to pm me...
Iiii-iiiiiit's.... me!!! *Hooray*
Clearly you have a problem with playing video games (which makes me wonder why you are on MMORPG.Com, but I digress)
i wonder how you ended up with this conclusion but for the sake of conversation i shall accept it for now
Think about what you are saying, before you type it please.
Right back at you
1) Many Video Games have world championships (I was almost flown to Korea 2 years ago to participate in a World Championship for a FPS video game, so your wrong on the first one)
Yeah i just found out about this one and i am a bit shocked honestly
2) If there are world championships (and there are) then there are also victors, who then become the world champions, so you are wrong on the second one too (I know the people who won the WC for that game, I hate them for going instead of me -.- lol)
Watch my answer above
3) Dunno what a CV is, might wanna clarify on your acronyms :P
You're either to young to know what a CV is or too rich anyone applying for a job needs one 'Curriculum Vitae' search it up in a dictionary
4) That statement is just ignorant, I mean seriously, saying that it doesn't take skill because there aren't trolls and goblins running around in real life for you to kill is just pathetic.
Care to explain to me how exactly is pressing the mouse button really fast while strafing is a skill??
5) There are tons of profesionals, someone posted about Fatality, he is a profesional gamer, and there are profesional gaming teams, who are on TV (and yea, there are shows about people playing Dead or Alive, and Counter strike/various other games) and teams get paid for winning, especially when they win the championship of their league/whatever, so you are WRONG AGAIN.
Now see i found out just a few minutes ago and i still lol at this term professional gamer. Games are supposed to be fun first the instant that 'professionalism' is added the fun factor goes right out the window for me cause soon after we have people running around flaunting their ' game achievements' and 'uber elite status' demanding,some times, recognition for things that nobody but them could possibly care
6) You state that the reason why chess takes skill, is because it doesn't use speed or accuracy, and those are key parts to what "skill" means, the ability to out manuever, out perform, and out think everyone else. Chess doesn't rely solely on quickness, true, but it is a part, why else would the championship chess leagues require you to use a clock and follow strict time requirements (meaning you have to be quick, you cant just sit for 5 hours and think).
Ok i'll give you that one i wasn't talking about pro league chess i was talking about the commonly know features of the game worldwide and quickness isn't one of them but nontheless it is a chess feature
You seam to have a TOTAL bias against people who play video games, thinking that games (in general) don't take skill, because it isn't something that you can repeat in real life (IE slaying dragons etc), but games use dexterity (the ability to out click / out manuever your oponents), accuracy (the ability to not only move your mouse quickly, but to move them to the right place), and plenty of ingenuity (the ability to think quickly on your feet [or butt as the case may be] and be able to do complexe rationalities while on the move, to be able to determine what you should do, how, and when. Basically, the ability to out think your opponent).
If the aforementioned items are not what determine "Skill" for you, I suggest you go and look it up in the dictionary. Or maybe go see a theropist.
If i'm biased against people that play games then i'm biased towards myself too because i am a gamer myself which in turn makes this some sort of split personallity disorder
But i guess that's just your opinion i'm only biased as far as people like you are concerned, that's the sort of people that take the whole gaming thing a bit to seriously ( talking about skills and 'out clicking'[WTF does that even mean] their opponent)and not so on it's fun side.
Therapist???Nah, doesn't work too expensive. I prefer my local bar that has one of those bartenders that know how to listen (now that's an actual skill) and who knows maybe i'll get lucky enough and find a chick that's drunk enough to come home with me
First off, I am from the USA, so we call it a Resume (and yes I have one), second off, you can infact put gaming achievements on certain resumes, for instance if you were trying to get into the gaming industry, such as Quality Assurance or Design, if you won a world championship at First Person Shooters, they would be someone inclined to listen to your point of view on how to make a good First Person Shooter, or equipment to go along with said games (such as Infinity with his brand of Sound Cards and Head Sets).
Now would I put that I had a level 80 Mage on my resume to Kinkos, probably not, that would get you laughed out the door. (and no I dont play wow).
Resume?? Really i thought you didn't like the French over there
JK ! Strangely enough i don't have any other objections with this paragraph.
And why do I think you dislike gamers? Because you mock gaming in general, you degenerate it down to just "point and click", and to a certain degree it is, for those who are less inclined to know better (you). I play first person shooters mainly, I am talking about America's Army, Battlefield, Call of Duty, and the like, if you go into one of those games, and think that who wins has nothing to do with skill, then thats probably cause you are never the winner.
Mocking??? No sir i just don't elevate it to the level that many do, for me it's just a game nothing more, nothing less. I don't build my life around it i just insert it in whenever i so please.Yes FPS are my favorite type of games next to RPG especially when i gather with a few friends and have a LAN party at some after midnight hour on a Saturday night after we all had our beers and are wasted enough.Sometimes i win and most times i lose but i enjoy it regardless,cause hey, it's just a game
"Care to explain to me how exactly is pressing the mouse button really fast while strafing is a skill??"
I will, because it can be broken down to Hand Eye Coordination. Me being able to move my aim reticle over your head, and pull the trigger takes the same brain work that a Drag Racer uses to see a green light, and hit the gas while shifting gears in order to beat his opponent by fractions of a second, just like I get a headshot on you by just a fraction of a second before you can shoot back.
"Games are supposed to be fun first the instant that 'professionalism' is added the fun factor goes right out the window for me cause soon after we have people running around flaunting their ' game achievements' and 'uber elite status' demanding,some times, recognition for things that nobody but them could possibly care"
Once again, you bring in personality traits. You assume that because some people are better then others, they will/have to flaunt it. You recognize that there are people who are better, but you don't recognize WHY there are people who are better. Tell me this, if it isn't skill, then what is it? If you and I are going against each other, and all outstanding factors are equal (gear, level, etc) and I win by a large margin, WHY did that happen? Lets say we go at it again, and the same result happens, WHY did I win? Luck? Fate? No pal, I think its because I am better, thus I am more skilled then you are at the game. Why are you so reluctant to admit that skill does factor into it?
You beat me 1 time i say : it's luck, 2 times: coincidence, 3 times: is fate. However every dog has it's day and eventually i will get back at you 1,2,3 times...So what are you gonna say then?"Gee i guess you are more skilful than me.." or "You just got lucky ,i'll get you next time" hmmm i wonder......
"If i'm biased against people that play games then i'm biased towards myself too"
I appologize, I misworded what I wanted to say, let me rephrase. You aren't biased against gamers, you are biased against gamers who are better then you. Whether they flaunt it or not, you shrug it off as something along the lines of "luck" and say it doesn't "take skill" because you don't want to admit it to yourself, so you make excuses, and you dodge the real issue, and it doesn't matter how much you get proven wrong, you aren't going to admit it, so I am just going to end this little rant now. Have fun :P
Again i must repeat myself i treat a game as a game should be treated and that's as a game.If i shrug it off everything alongside the lines of "luck" as you claim then can i claim that you are to prompt to declare every "victory" over some "n00b" that you achieve due to your "skillz" at the game regardless whether or not he hit a lagspike at that point or he got distracted by some external source and you will be equally prompt to call him "lucky" the next time he "pwnz" you thus contradicting yourself when you talk about "game skillz"??Or is that not in your realm of possibilities to happen? See?? 2 can play this game...
Still you're right about 1 thing this is getting a bit
and that's unfair towards the OP of the thread, so i'm willing to give it a rest as long as you are, besides i think we offered this community enough entertainment for the day if you want to continue this discussion feel free to pm me...
I agree that we should get back on topic, but I do feel inclined to clear something up.
Everyone has their off days, and their on days, true enough, if I win some, then you win some, then I am not a more skillful player then you, we are at the same skill level. Because even when two people are at the same skill level, it won't end up in a constant tie, you will win some times, and you will lose some times, that is the law of averages. But what I was refering to, wasn't two equal opponents, just two players on equal ground (with different skill levels), there is a difference. Even if one person has far more skill then the other, he won't win every time, like I said, luck does play a factor, but if someone is more skilled they will still win with a higher average then the other, it wont end up 5-5, it will end up more like 9-1 or 8-2. Assuming that two people of equal level and stats/gear will always end up in a draw (or eventually a 5-5 draw) in a skill based game, is just hopeful thinking.
The thing is, you are side stepping the issue of skills being part of the game, and you are coming up with absurd scenarios to make an excuse as to why I would kill someone (As in lag spikes, and outside factors causing all of my excess kills). You seem to assume that if I kill someone once, I assume I am better then them, and if they kill me back, I make an excuse as per "luck". I don't consider myself better then someone until I have beaten them so many times, (in a large ratio, not 6-4, more like 9-1 or 8-2 ratio) and not until I understand their tactics (on this map, do they like to go here, do they like to go there, do they wait for me to come to them, do they rush at me, what gun do they prefer, the sniper, the SMG, etc etc) until I have analyzed their game play, and understand how they play. Until then its just a "getting to know eachother period", which I often go through with clan mates and friends. I know some of my friends are better then me at some things (aka Sniping, which I counteract with rushing and hit and run tactics) while I am better then them at other things (IE close quarters, anticipating where they will go, etc), I got to know them, I got to know how they play, I anticipate their moves, I play better then them, more skilled then them. I don't just play with random people and assume I am better, which is where you seam to be getting confused
Yes you can chalk things up to "Its a game, I play it for fun", well like chess, I like to see how well I can do, and when I try to do my best, and succeed, I enjoy the game, and when I lose, I try to learn from my mistakes, and do better next time. Which is where "Skill" comes into the game for me.
Let me put things like this, you said you do LANS and play a FPS. If you went one on one with someone in a FPS, you both had the same gun, do you think that it would constantly end in a 5-5 tie? Or do you think if you were playing someone who was better then you (more skilled) or less skilled then you, one of you would take the lead, and win consistently more then the other? What you are saying, is that in video games, if two people both have the same stuff, then skill doesn't matter, it will end in a tie. When if you look at any competitive ladders (TWL, CAL) that is not the case, the better more skilled team comes out on top, because of just that, they are more skilled.
What things keep boiling down to, is you assume there is no skill involved in the game, because you prefer to not think of it in a skillful way, or a strategic way, but more of a "lets go have fun and mess around way" which is a perfectly legit way to play a game, most people play their video games that way;however, assuming that just because you play a game a certain way, that no one else can play it a different way, is just a little bit egotistical :P
Anyways, if you want me to clear up any more of my previous post, I can, or if you want to just let things go, thats cool too. But no offense, from my part of the argument, it is like trying to explain science to the Amish
Maybe they changed it later, but at release, the safe zone was only like 50 feet from town, so you couldn't gather resources in a safe area.
How long did you play the game for? I think that'd help us see where you're coming from.
Not to be insulting, but maybe you're an example of someone that UO was too difficult for. UO's learning curve was higher than most MMOs. You know, there were sooo many places in town to mine and such. And Britain wasn't the only town, why did you always go there?
From what you've written, you'd be the classic example of someone not learning how to play the game. It's pretty simple. You went to the Britain Graveyard and got ganked. You came back to life and went back to Britain Graveyard to get ganked - rinse repeat. Why didn't you STOP GOING TO THE BRITAIN GRAVEYARD?
What was so damn good about the Britain Graveyard? There were so many other places you could have gone and be left alone in.
You are the reason carebear games exist. UO didn't fail, you failed. Just because you thought the game sucked and went somewhere else doesn't mean everybody else did. Hundreds of thousands of people continued to subscribe while you left.
Darkfall might fail, but you're going to have to come up with a different reason for why it will fail. If Darkfall fails, it will be because it didn't reproduce UO's ruleset well enough. If it manages to successfully reproduce Pre-Trammel UO, there's no friggin way it would fail. So far, no game has managed to do that, though and THAT"s why their open-pvp system failed.
Still i'm not so sure whether i would come back here or anywhere for that matter to brag about it since there is really nothing to brag about
, but i will tell you if i ever get to climb Everest !!!!
I think your point is more that being good at a videogame is nothing to brag about. I agree with you there. The only guys who should be bragging about being good at a videogame are the ones making cash off of it.
I think the dictionary basically sums up that, yes, being good at a videogame can be a skill:
skill
–noun
1. the ability, coming from one's knowledge, practice, aptitude, etc., to do something well
:P
i never got ganked in the Britain graveyard. I have no Idea where you got that from.
I already said why I left the game. Most people on the server quit because of all the ganking. Then the gankers quit because there was nobody left to gank.
I would walk around in all three dungeons for like a half an hour and never saw anyone. The server was totally empty so I quit.
when UO came out it was the only MMORPG, it had no competitiion. So peopled stayed even though it was a total gankfest. When other options appeared, ala Everquest, everyone left.
I remember when DAOC opened up full pvp servers, they failed miserably
Asherons call darktide has failed
Shadowbane has failed
Every game with fully open pvp and full looting has failed.
And yet you keep saying how everyone loves it?
Dude, get some rational reasoning ability.
As already stated, Everquest was a newer game with better graphics and a more familiar class and level based system.
The PvP servers for DAoC and AC were an alternate (read afterthought) rule set. It was a bolt-on; the game was not built from the ground up for FFA PvP. Consequently, it is no surprise that those servers were not as succesful as the primary ruleset.
Shadowbane was a technical disaster, bug-city. Plus the level based system and overly complex character development made for a lot of un-even fights.
If you think the only factor determining the success/failure of the titles that you mentioned is that they had non-consentual pvp then you are an idiot. No really you are.
Some people like MMO PvP and some people don't. Also, already stated, Trammel was EA's answer to a perceived problem. Koster is on record saying that yes rampant PK'ing was a problem and that the stat loss for murderers had reduced it to, in his opinion, appropriate levels but EA went ahead with Trammel anyway. The version of history depends on who you talk to.
BTW, if you have such a hate-on for PvP why are you trolling in the DF forum?
when UO came out it was the only MMORPG, it had no competitiion. So peopled stayed even though it was a total gankfest. When other options appeared, ala Everquest, everyone left.
I remember when DAOC opened up full pvp servers, they failed miserably
Asherons call darktide has failed
Shadowbane has failed
Every game with fully open pvp and full looting has failed.
And yet you keep saying how everyone loves it?
Dude, get some rational reasoning ability.
As already stated, Everquest was a newer game with better graphics and a more familiar class and level based system.
The PvP servers for DAoC and AC were an alternate (read afterthought) rule set. It was a bolt-on; the game was not built from the ground up for FFA PvP. Consequently, it is no surprise that those servers were not as succesful as the primary ruleset.
Shadowbane was a technical disaster, bug-city. Plus the level based system and overly complex character development made for a lot of un-even fights.
If you think the only factor determining the success/failure of the titles that you mentioned is that they had non-consentual pvp then you are an idiot. No really you are.
Some people like MMO PvP and some people don't. Also, already stated, Trammel was EA's answer to a perceived problem. Koster is on record saying that yes rampant PK'ing was a problem and that the stat loss for murderers had reduced it to, in his opinion, appropriate levels but EA went ahead with Trammel anyway. The version of history depends on who you talk to.
BTW, if you have such a hate-on for PvP why are you trolling in the DF forum?
Many are just on a crusade they hope they can bring down all hardcore pvp, damn moralist's:(
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009.....
In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
DF doesn't exisit anyway, so why are people discussing it.
Its all in the imagination of the developers.
If this game fails it won't be because of ffa pvp or full loot. It will be because of either technical problems or gameplay problems such as unresponsive character controls, features implemented in ways that cause annoyance to the user ect.
We don't know what the payment scheme is yet either, if mt's are involved (which I think is extremely unlikely) that would be one thing that would guarentee that I would not play it. I would probably never look at a mmorpg again if this had mt's, lol.
Interesting point. So the reason you're posting is?
Haha! I hope not.
But shit, I've always wanted to make an MMORPG (I think I'd make a damn fine one) and I thought about making a fake "dream game" in hopes that maybe someone would copy it or even crazier, finance it. That'd be something if the Darkfall people actually DID that. I'd still have to give em a hand, but I'd be seriously disappointed.
Also, the reason Pre-Trammel uo DIDN'T fail isn't simply because it had non-consenual PvP outside of town, it's because the PvP itself was brilliant.
No MMORPG has matched UO's timing/human-skill based combat system. Certain spells/attacks were more effective if followed by certain attacks. Things like poison, cure, paralyze/trapped-boxes all added to the PvP. The fact that you could cast an Explosion spell that wouldn't go off until 3seconds later and then equip a weapon and try and hit them with 2 attacks at the same time - that shit was awesome.
Are there any other games like this? Will Darkfall have this?