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Second Life Population still growning despite naysayers
Faxxer
Member Posts: 3,247
in Second Life
When I started SL, you were lucky to see 25k ppl online on the weekends during peak hours...
RIGHT NOW... over 52k people are ONLINE IN THE GRID. on a thursday at 10am....
There is a movie coming out about SL suppedly, though puts it in a negative light.
oh ya.... No instances either. ALL Together. MMO's should learn from this.
Comments
The best thing about SL... there is no reason to have a subscription unless you want to own land.
So people can just make an account and see what they think without investing any money.
My GF runs a store in SL and has been there quite a while.. loves to build. So you can say I have some experience around and even in SL...
However, rather than put my personal view point as a reply.. I would suggest that anyone who was ever curious to see for themselves...
What is the point of this game?
I have read the info but it seems to me like there is no real point other then to try and live
your life thru a game.
Don't get me wrong not trying to put down your game I just want to know what the point of it is.
Assassin's like to do it in the dark and from behind.
I am not interested in SL as a SOCIAL game - I am interested in it as a business. Since you have some experience, maybe you can answer some questions:
* Is Second Life viable as a business? Do you break even? or make profits? How much would we realistically have to plow in before we see any returns - even profits.
* What are things that cost ingame? What things are free?
* Can we "find" natural resources for free?
* Crafting: What can we build? Limited set of schematics? Or can we improvise and jury-rig items? Are schematics expensive? When we craft - are results 100% successful or do we FAIL and lose resources as well?
* Is land easy to acquire? Or do we have to pay a lot to buy land? What can the land be used for?
* Can we setup shops easily? Can we sell realworld items/services ingame? What tax do the devs charge?
* Is there an ingame Auction House? What are auction fees?
* Can we withdraw cash easily? Is there a Paypal feature? Or just Cred Cards? Bank cards? What % cut do devs take for withdrawing?
* What about customer service? How fast do they respond? Are they intelligent? Helpful? Can we cancel anytime (or take a long break) without worry of being charged randomly on our cards?
Thanks.
I am not interested in SL as a SOCIAL game - I am interested in it as a business. Since you have some experience, maybe you can answer some questions:
* Is Second Life viable as a business? Do you break even? or make profits? How much would we realistically have to plow in before we see any returns - even profits.
It's insanely easy to get profits you just need to think differently. When I was playing I always sold stuff under somebody else's name and took a commision on sales.
That said if it's not a hobby you're going to burn yourself out. You have to do lots of work to get any returns. In the game $4 dollars is considered quite a bit and an impressive income as far as most players are concerned. The RL economy doesn't really care over.
* What are things that cost ingame? What things are free?
Uploading a texture costs less than a penny. Creating something free. writing scripts is free. The only thing costs you is if the lindens host land for you or you rent it from a player.
* Can we "find" natural resources for free?
Kinda. There's camping and the like but it's better to just shove a buck into the game
* Crafting: What can we build? Limited set of schematics? Or can we improvise and jury-rig items? Are schematics expensive? When we craft - are results 100% successful or do we FAIL and lose resources as well?
You can build literally everything. People have built roleplay on top of the game some even go so far as to have micro MMOs. My favorite form was a griffon yes a four legged half cat half bird thing. You can make just about anything with minmal constraints some you can even make your own weapons for combat games ect..
* Is land easy to acquire? Or do we have to pay a lot to buy land? What can the land be used for?
If you want an attractive piece of coast land it could pay on the upwards of hundreds of dollars. If you want just some land it could cost you 12-30 depending on the size. Renting land from players is an option with can come to 50 cents a week in some cases.
* Can we setup shops easily? Can we sell realworld items/services ingame? What tax do the devs charge?
The only tax is when you withdraw the money for real money and the cost of the land hosting.
* Is there an ingame Auction House? What are auction fees?
player run
* Can we withdraw cash easily? Is there a Paypal feature? Or just Cred Cards? Bank cards? What % cut do devs take for withdrawing?
You can use pay pal exlcusivly, credit card, or even attach a bank account.
* What about customer service? How fast do they respond? Are they intelligent? Helpful? Can we cancel anytime (or take a long break) without worry of being charged randomly on our cards?
If you're subscribing the customer service is well above average from my experiance. only needed to use it on a few occasions though. If you're not you might as well just post in the forums because the player base is very helpful.
There are of course other problems that pop up from time to time do to greifibility in the game. But all things considered it's not bad.
Thanks.
That said I also reserve the right to call you pretty lazy for not looking the stuff up. There's resources for those all over the net and your local library should even have a few books on the subject by now (middle of nowhere central Wisconsin has like 4 on second life).
I find it amazing that by 2020 first world countries will be competing to get immigrants.
I am not interested in SL as a SOCIAL game - I am interested in it as a business. Since you have some experience, maybe you can answer some questions:
* Is Second Life viable as a business? Do you break even? or make profits? How much would we realistically have to plow in before we see any returns - even profits.
It's insanely easy to get profits you just need to think differently. When I was playing I always sold stuff under somebody else's name and took a commision on sales.
That said if it's not a hobby you're going to burn yourself out. You have to do lots of work to get any returns. In the game $4 dollars is considered quite a bit and an impressive income as far as most players are concerned. The RL economy doesn't really care over.
* What are things that cost ingame? What things are free?
Uploading a texture costs less than a penny. Creating something free. writing scripts is free. The only thing costs you is if the lindens host land for you or you rent it from a player.
* Can we "find" natural resources for free?
Kinda. There's camping and the like but it's better to just shove a buck into the game
* Crafting: What can we build? Limited set of schematics? Or can we improvise and jury-rig items? Are schematics expensive? When we craft - are results 100% successful or do we FAIL and lose resources as well?
You can build literally everything. People have built roleplay on top of the game some even go so far as to have micro MMOs. My favorite form was a griffon yes a four legged half cat half bird thing. You can make just about anything with minmal constraints some you can even make your own weapons for combat games ect..
* Is land easy to acquire? Or do we have to pay a lot to buy land? What can the land be used for?
If you want an attractive piece of coast land it could pay on the upwards of hundreds of dollars. If you want just some land it could cost you 12-30 depending on the size. Renting land from players is an option with can come to 50 cents a week in some cases.
* Can we setup shops easily? Can we sell realworld items/services ingame? What tax do the devs charge?
The only tax is when you withdraw the money for real money and the cost of the land hosting.
* Is there an ingame Auction House? What are auction fees?
player run
* Can we withdraw cash easily? Is there a Paypal feature? Or just Cred Cards? Bank cards? What % cut do devs take for withdrawing?
You can use pay pal exlcusivly, credit card, or even attach a bank account.
* What about customer service? How fast do they respond? Are they intelligent? Helpful? Can we cancel anytime (or take a long break) without worry of being charged randomly on our cards?
If you're subscribing the customer service is well above average from my experiance. only needed to use it on a few occasions though. If you're not you might as well just post in the forums because the player base is very helpful.
There are of course other problems that pop up from time to time do to greifibility in the game. But all things considered it's not bad.
Thanks.
That said I also reserve the right to call you pretty lazy for not looking the stuff up. There's resources for those all over the net and your local library should even have a few books on the subject by now (middle of nowhere central Wisconsin has like 4 on second life).
QFT. All of those questions could have easily been answered by 1- going to the Second Life Website & 2- installing the client and going in world for a brief period of time.
How many of those 52k ppl do you suppose are alts? Just alts on some dancepad or something just to make money? I knew oodles of people who would run one main account n have two or three alts sittin on those money dance pads all day long. Also there is only one server...for the entire world...so in most any game it wouldn't be that much of a streach to have 52k accounts logged on.
If you are creative minded, this is a great place to build n create. But be honest...majority are there for the sexual creativity.
How many of those 52k ppl do you suppose are alts? Just alts on some dancepad or something just to make money? I knew oodles of people who would run one main account n have two or three alts sittin on those money dance pads all day long. Also there is only one server...for the entire world...so in most any game it wouldn't be that much of a streach to have 52k accounts logged on.
If you are creative minded, this is a great place to build n create. But be honest...majority are there for the sexual creativity.
the amount of money you can earn from afk dancing on a pad is so completely insignificant, such things are usually what is done by a person who JUST started.... and is usually what someone does that hasn't really spent any time learning what's in there. And you do know it costs money to create an alt right?
The people I know that created alts used them because they were soooo busy / involved that they needed a private alt so they could build/create again.....otherwise they spent all their time being bombarded with messages / questions (if they were a business owner for example)
The scripters I knew NEVER had free time to themselves....thus they created alts to have time to ENJOY the realm.... again...nothing to do whatsoever with sex.
the percentage of sexual creativity is no more than the internet percentage of porn related materials....someone need only the same amount of self-control that they have when browsing the net to avoid the stuff you speak of. and SL does say clearly it's 18+ yrs of age to enter...Something I'm very HAPPY with after seeing kiddies act like idiots in other MMO's.... but yes...some 18+ yr olds act like 7th graders in there too...LOL
I am not interested in SL as a SOCIAL game - I am interested in it as a business. Since you have some experience, maybe you can answer some questions:
* Is Second Life viable as a business? Do you break even? or make profits? How much would we realistically have to plow in before we see any returns - even profits.
the way i found that makes most money is real estate. you buy an island (1000-2000$) and you rent it out you may break even after a year or so depending on how the market is ( you pay 100-200$/month on tier fees) so you have to plan out and find tennants. to break even
* What are things that cost ingame? What things are free?
something are free somethings cost between 10 cents (clothes shoes etc...)and 30$(roleplaying spaceships)
* Can we "find" natural resources for free?
i think this was misunderstood, natural ressources meaning the blocks to craft/built? very easy to find, right click create and choose your geometric figure that you will "model" to your liking
* Crafting: What can we build? Limited set of schematics? Or can we improvise and jury-rig items? Are schematics expensive? When we craft - are results 100% successful or do we FAIL and lose resources as well?
virtually anything that pops in to your imagination
* Is land easy to acquire? Or do we have to pay a lot to buy land? What can the land be used for?
* Can we setup shops easily? Can we sell realworld items/services ingame? What tax do the devs charge?
set up shops as long as you have your parcel (rented or bought) you can sell anything as long as it does not violate the real world copyright laws
* Is there an ingame Auction House? What are auction fees?
player run stores and malls
* Can we withdraw cash easily? Is there a Paypal feature? Or just Cred Cards? Bank cards? What % cut do devs take for withdrawing?
very easy and its 1$USD per transaciton if you use paypal
* What about customer service? How fast do they respond? Are they intelligent? Helpful? Can we cancel anytime (or take a long break) without worry of being charged randomly on our cards?
Thanks.
just a few things i wanted to add or clarify
I find it amazing that by 2020 first world countries will be competing to get immigrants.
Yes, you can avoid it, but that isn't the point, really. The point is what are the majority of people there doing? If you look around the map and the very crowded sims and parcels, you'll see that a very good number of them are sex-related in some way.
This is to be expected when you create a platform that permits adult human beings to do pretty much whatever they want under a perfect veil of anonymity and the ability to project an image of their choosing into the virtual space -- of course it will be laced with sexuality. That doesn't mean that this is all there is to SL -- that's very untrue. The vast, vast majority of sims have nothing at all to do with cybersex. But the vast vast majority of sims are also mostly devoid of avatars. The places where you see tons of avatars on the map often have to do with sex, which, as I say, is hardly surprising given the nature of the platform.
Yes, you can avoid it, but that isn't the point, really. The point is what are the majority of people there doing? If you look around the map and the very crowded sims and parcels, you'll see that a very good number of them are sex-related in some way.
This is to be expected when you create a platform that permits adult human beings to do pretty much whatever they want under a perfect veil of anonymity and the ability to project an image of their choosing into the virtual space -- of course it will be laced with sexuality. That doesn't mean that this is all there is to SL -- that's very untrue. The vast, vast majority of sims have nothing at all to do with cybersex. But the vast vast majority of sims are also mostly devoid of avatars. The places where you see tons of avatars on the map often have to do with sex, which, as I say, is hardly surprising given the nature of the platform.
I don't get what your point is... ok so there are sims devoted to sex right? Do you lack the self control to not go there? I know tons of people on SL that have enough self control to be themselves and enjoy a good dance club and paradise island where sex isn't the primary topic.
Again.... so what if it's there...it's all around us in RL too, on every other commercial on TV we're bombarded with inuendo and suggestion... that doesn't mean we're all having orgies all over the place does it?
and... those people WANT to be there .... who are YOU ...or I ... to judge them for that? Aren't they adults?
My point is that there's all this talk about how SL is this great, groundbreaking creative platform and so forth when in reality the concentrations of users in the space are around the pixel-mediated cybersex venues and strip clubs. I'm not judging anyone, nor do these places terribly interest me, but they *are* the most populated places on the grid by a long shot -- that, in itself, says something both about the nature of SL and the interests of a large portion of its userbase.
Yes it's quite sad that SL takes on the image of a "sex game" because that's what people do when given the power to. It's even more sad that any company that attempts to make the next one will attract those people first. It's incredibly annoying that any normal MMO that wants to take on some of the creation and housing aspects of SL(IE someplace you can make comfortable and sociable), won't because the only example of that said system is SL(see start of paragraph).
That said ingame it's not bad at all, It's quite easy to never see a naked body much less a couple doing out in the street... Unless you're something like a "proper english person" where the thought of someone doing the nasty sends you for a tailspin it's not that radical.
I find it amazing that by 2020 first world countries will be competing to get immigrants.
Its funny how everyone mentions "sex" in SL.
In 3 yrs, I have yet to see or participate in it.
We see what we want to see.
When you consider it's 18+ if you're offended by "sex" then why are you here?? I'm sure there's some Christian Websites you can visit.
Im not surprised, the game seems really sandbox from what I can tell, and who doesen't enjoy sandbox lol.
There's a differeance between second life and what most sandboxers want. people expect to be able to travel about the world and be under one unified game: game mechanics, lore, and whatever else. When you can't even take a weapon from one SIM and use it in another that you frequent.
I find it amazing that by 2020 first world countries will be competing to get immigrants.
There's a differeance between second life and what most sandboxers want. people expect to be able to travel about the world and be under one unified game: game mechanics, lore, and whatever else. When you can't even take a weapon from one SIM and use it in another that you frequent.
This is true about boundaries in game...
But really, don't you think it's just a matter of time until the slscript matures enough to let mmo style gaming in sims? I know they "THINK" they have that now, but not like an MMO ...well let's compare it to AoC or SWG... But it's getting closer and closer.
There's a differeance between second life and what most sandboxers want. people expect to be able to travel about the world and be under one unified game: game mechanics, lore, and whatever else. When you can't even take a weapon from one SIM and use it in another that you frequent.
This is true about boundaries in game...
But really, don't you think it's just a matter of time until the slscript matures enough to let mmo style gaming in sims? I know they "THINK" they have that now, but not like an MMO ...well let's compare it to AoC or SWG... But it's getting closer and closer.
While I know from personal real programming experiance and experiance with LSL scripting. I can say that LSL is massivly abused in ways it shouldn't be(causing lots of script lag), and in other cases current functions under utilized(meaning lots of dynamic things that could be there aren't).
However you will never ever see a MMO made on the main grid and with LSL, you'll see nothing other than a bunch of disjointed DMs+lands. LSL is just not a real programming language and never will be able to be one.
I find it amazing that by 2020 first world countries will be competing to get immigrants.
There's a differeance between second life and what most sandboxers want. people expect to be able to travel about the world and be under one unified game: game mechanics, lore, and whatever else. When you can't even take a weapon from one SIM and use it in another that you frequent.
This is true about boundaries in game...
But really, don't you think it's just a matter of time until the slscript matures enough to let mmo style gaming in sims? I know they "THINK" they have that now, but not like an MMO ...well let's compare it to AoC or SWG... But it's getting closer and closer.
While I know from personal real programming experiance and experiance with LSL scripting. I can say that LSL is massivly abused in ways it shouldn't be(causing lots of script lag), and in other cases current functions under utilized(meaning lots of dynamic things that could be there aren't).
However you will never ever see a MMO made on the main grid and with LSL, you'll see nothing other than a bunch of disjointed DMs+lands. LSL is just not a real programming language and never will be able to be one.
I would add.. "for now..."
Even BASIC evolved into C++ no? (I know, a bit of a stretch, but you get my point)
You can't say never, it's just not going to be limited to our perception of things....and there is always someone out there that will do it just to prove them wrong.
like a few posters above said, the difference between SL sandbox and a MMO sandbox is the continuity. yes you can be anything do anything create anything... but... one minute you can walk in a desert environment and into a funhouse the next and then into a club, and sometimes you can see all those things (if you set your visibility far enough. (this is on mainland) and then you have the lagfests prim clutter advertisement galore section that due to the intense bad scripting you cant move a finger an dyou have to teleport out.
if you go on private sims, its small compared to a real MMO and usually the owners will be paying enormous amounts of money to keep them up. Some last a long time but most close withing a year or 2.
unification is the key word. when all players follow the same mechanics rule set. where the fundamentals are equal all over the place. when you fall, you receive X damage period. (unless assisted by specific items or skills that might do x-y=new damage. in SL you might be in a sim where dmg = x and the sim beside dmg = 1000+x. and the one beside 1000x=dmg.
For sure, there are things MMO's can learn from SL.
One of the best is the customizing of the avatars. You can make, buy or build anything, and as a result, have your toon be ANYTHING you want. Not only be anything you want, but actually look GOOD doing it to. Sure, the base SL avi's suck, but the modded ones rule, and what MMO couldn't benefit from better looking and more variety of toons?
SL's inventory. Man, everytime I run out of slots in an MMO, I flash back to SL. In WoW, you get a starting pack of 16 items, and you can get bigger bags, but even the most decked out raider with a whole guild bank given to him self pales compared to SL. My current SL Avi is at 20,000 items and many of my friends have over 100,000 items...my WoW toons get , at most, including the bank, 200.
In addition to the number of items, SL items are vastly more complex. In WoW, for instance, folks go "ooh and aah" over a glow sword with a spinning thing on it. Big deal. Try hair with 500 independent moving strands, clothing that flows, gear that fully deploys and so on. I have a neclace where every link shines, and rotates and is comprised of 140 parts. The cool thing, all SL itmes count as ONE object in your inventory, so the my 20,000 items is more likely 250,000 (Prims) items on a typical MMO.
Behavior and effect scripting in SL could add depth to MMO's be allowing players to create scenarios, quests, mobs and much more. Likewise, the ability to build from scratch would be cool (as it is in SL).
All this said, SL is not really a "true" MMO in the way most folks see one, even though SL is far more true to the terms "MMORPG" and "Sandbox" than any game out there. In fact, the only dispute there is, would be if SL is a game or not; for it is online, massive, has more RP than any MMO I have ever seen, and is so Sandbox that it lacks consistancy from place to place (as a poster noted above) due to the sheer stupendous amount of variety of each land (There are thousands of lands).
So yes, MMO's can learn from the better aspects of the SL, and even from the not so good parts too... like the bugs and lag... as in how to avoid those.
And yes, SL... love it or hate it... is growing.
While I know from personal real programming experiance and experiance with LSL scripting. I can say that LSL is massivly abused in ways it shouldn't be(causing lots of script lag), and in other cases current functions under utilized(meaning lots of dynamic things that could be there aren't).
However you will never ever see a MMO made on the main grid and with LSL, you'll see nothing other than a bunch of disjointed DMs+lands. LSL is just not a real programming language and never will be able to be one.
depends on how you define MMO. there's something i think called Dark Life, that is a small land that has like a mini dungeon and an outdoor area and you have the same dice rolling RPG mechanic based combat with very simplistic and unanimated (or poorly animated) mobs.
while LSL does suck and lacks many things of a "real" language, there are usually workarounds that would let you do almost anything. anything the API allows.
but they DO have plans to add C# as an alternative to LSL eventually. they've implemented a MONO virtual machine as a precursor to that already.
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Corpus Callosum
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While I know from personal real programming experiance and experiance with LSL scripting. I can say that LSL is massivly abused in ways it shouldn't be(causing lots of script lag), and in other cases current functions under utilized(meaning lots of dynamic things that could be there aren't).
However you will never ever see a MMO made on the main grid and with LSL, you'll see nothing other than a bunch of disjointed DMs+lands. LSL is just not a real programming language and never will be able to be one.
depends on how you define MMO. there's something i think called Dark Life, that is a small land that has like a mini dungeon and an outdoor area and you have the same dice rolling RPG mechanic based combat with very simplistic and unanimated (or poorly animated) mobs.
while LSL does suck and lacks many things of a "real" language, there are usually workarounds that would let you do almost anything. anything the API allows.
but they DO have plans to add C# as an alternative to LSL eventually. they've implemented a MONO virtual machine as a precursor to that already.
That's rather fascinating! I can't imagine what kind of business boost a REAL programming language supported in SL would bring...
Imagine going to college for 2+ years just to be an SL scripter for a living!!!! it could happen in that instance, and we're talking about REAL clams here.
an SL scripter used to charge 3500Lindens per hour to create for someone, and anyone deep into SL knows how AMAZING some of these crafted items can be (I'm reminded of some of the complex games that used to be online before gambling was ganked)
My favorite items of course:
My VERY LARGE working Enterprise 1701-A that I fly and shoot with full sound effects and torpedoes, my weather making machine that has twisters and thunderstorms with lightning (lol love that one cause it makes snow too) Love my perfect looking Storm Trooper suit for my avatar. I have several versions of R2D2 that can patrol, chirp, and animate as I see fit, and the best, i know it's the simplest one too.... I can dance like a real pro in SL in the clubs whereas in real life i have 2 left feet. booya! makes me into a stud. :P