Making this game hardcore PvP alienates so much of the market. Why shoot yourself in the foot when you're out to make money? My still all-time favortie MMO was EnB and it had zero PvP. Granted, at some times I wish it did. If I wanted hardcore PvP I would be playing Eve (and yeah I played that for a while but it was so tremendously boring). IMO, PvP really works when there's no real penalty for dying (maybe time or XP or equipment durability ala EnB or other intangables like that). When you venture into the realm of losing your ship or equipment for dying, the game becomes a little too like reality for me. I have enough reality in my life. I play games to have fun. Regardless of what happens, I'll try JGE. Whether or not I stay depends on the game itself.
Jumpgate should not be aiming at the MMO market, most of the Ex freelancer and freespace 2 community has been begging and wishing for a decent replacement. If the game does not have grind based advancement and good pvp it will appeal to GAMERs and they will find a larger and more loyal player base than WoW refugees who only stay for a few weeks.
Currently playing:
EVE online (Ruining low sec one hotdrop at a time)
Gravity Rush, Dishonoured: The Knife of Dunwall.
(Waiting for) Metro: Last Light, Company of Heroes II.
There is nothing wrong with wanting to be rewarded. We are playing a GAME here. Being rewarded is what entertainment is all about. I am glad that developers have wised up the fact that that is what customers want.
The point of playing a game is to have fun. Not to be rewards, but to be entertained from the playing of the game itself.
Many people have fun with games that challenge you and offers risks, many do not. Most mmos are aimed at the ones who do not.. no good mmo for risk has come out in years. Let the riskers have a game for once, instead of boohooing at the devs until they cave in and make yet another kiddy game
It is not a one or zero thing. From the expansion of the market, obviously MOST people would like a LOWER amount of risks. That is no reason why developers should go back to the niche high risk market.
There is nothing wrong with wanting to be rewarded. We are playing a GAME here. Being rewarded is what entertainment is all about. I am glad that developers have wised up the fact that that is what customers want.
The point of playing a game is to have fun. Not to be rewards, but to be entertained from the playing of the game itself.
Many people have fun with games that challenge you and offers risks, many do not. Most mmos are aimed at the ones who do not.. no good mmo for risk has come out in years. Let the riskers have a game for once, instead of boohooing at the devs until they cave in and make yet another kiddy game
It is not a one or zero thing. From the expansion of the market, obviously MOST people would like a LOWER amount of risks. That is no reason why developers should go back to the niche high risk market.
Yes, because as I stated earlier the expansion of the market is mainly the console kids brought to MMO's via WoW that are use to little risk. They are use to the console games that don't truly have any long-term detrimental effects on their characters. Their are a few games out their in the console market that do, but very few.
Long-term effects have been in MMO's since their birth because they are NOT console games. They are ever evolving, digitally breathing worlds that are persistent , and suppose to mimic life to a point. Where your decisions can make or break you. That's the point I think you are either missing, or simply ignoring. The fact that it IS fun to know in a given situation that you have to THINK about your actions, because it could cause your character short and/or long term efects that may or may not be reversable. Their is no instant "reset to the land of sunshine and rainbows" button if you decide to be a moron and attack something or someone 10 levels higher than you, or try getting through an area packed with dangerous mobs, but didn't think of a planned safe route and instead tried to Leroy Jenkins (term you should be familiar with) it through.
What detracts immersion and the fun out of MMO's for long-time veterans of the genre is the new developer's lean towards low risk. It causes the above mentioned senerios amongst others. That's why I left WoW. I felt as though I was paying $15 a month for virtual daycare services because their was so little risk in anything you did that nearly everyone acted like idiots because their was nothing to worry about. Unless you weren't a raid addict and had to PvP in greens and blues(If you even want to really call it PvP), in which you risked dying to any purple wearer 99.9% of the time. That's about it. Other than that, you could rezz at safe points, pay a barely noticeable repair bill for your gear, get no xp loss upon death, etc, etc. Where is the fun in it? Or the thrill of having a heroic victory, or truly crushing defeat...other than those that smacktard talked?
There is nothing wrong with wanting to be rewarded. We are playing a GAME here. Being rewarded is what entertainment is all about. I am glad that developers have wised up the fact that that is what customers want.
The point of playing a game is to have fun. Not to be rewards, but to be entertained from the playing of the game itself.
Many people have fun with games that challenge you and offers risks, many do not. Most mmos are aimed at the ones who do not.. no good mmo for risk has come out in years. Let the riskers have a game for once, instead of boohooing at the devs until they cave in and make yet another kiddy game
It is not a one or zero thing. From the expansion of the market, obviously MOST people would like a LOWER amount of risks. That is no reason why developers should go back to the niche high risk market.
Yes, because as I stated earlier the expansion of the market is mainly the console kids brought to MMO's via WoW that are use to little risk. They are use to the console games that don't truly have any long-term detrimental effects on their characters. Their are a few games out their in the console market that do, but very few.
Long-term effects have been in MMO's since their birth because they are NOT console games. They are ever evolving, digitally breathing worlds that are persistent , and suppose to mimic life to a point. Where your decisions can make or break you. That's the point I think you are either missing, or simply ignoring. The fact that it IS fun to know in a given situation that you have to THINK about your actions, because it could cause your character short and/or long term efects that may or may not be reversable. Their is no instant "reset to the land of sunshine and rainbows" button if you decide to be a moron and attack something or someone 10 levels higher than you, or try getting through an area packed with dangerous mobs, but didn't think of a planned safe route and instead tried to Leroy Jenkins (term you should be familiar with) it through.
What detracts immersion and the fun out of MMO's for long-time veterans of the genre is the new developer's lean towards low risk. It causes the above mentioned senerios amongst others. That's why I left WoW. I felt as though I was paying $15 a month for virtual daycare services because their was so little risk in anything you did that nearly everyone acted like idiots because their was nothing to worry about. Unless you weren't a raid addict and had to PvP in greens and blues, in which you risked dying to any purple wearer 99.9% of the time. That's about it. Other than that, you could rezz at safe points, pay a barely noticeable repair bill for your gear, get no xp loss upon death, etc, etc. Where is the fun in it? Or the thrill of having a heroic victory, or truly crushing defeat...other than those that smacktard talked?
Low risk kills lots of things, it kills immersion, it kills dependency on other players, (remember corpse retrievals in eq?) and frankly it kills the stimulation of the game. In EQ, for example if you were about to die somewhere far away from civilization, youd think to yourself "oh crap, oh crap, theres no way in hell Im gonna get a rez way out there, hell I dont know if I can get back out here naked to get my corpse alone".
Remember when games actaully affected your heart rate?
There is nothing wrong with wanting to be rewarded. We are playing a GAME here. Being rewarded is what entertainment is all about. I am glad that developers have wised up the fact that that is what customers want.
The point of playing a game is to have fun. Not to be rewards, but to be entertained from the playing of the game itself.
Many people have fun with games that challenge you and offers risks, many do not. Most mmos are aimed at the ones who do not.. no good mmo for risk has come out in years. Let the riskers have a game for once, instead of boohooing at the devs until they cave in and make yet another kiddy game
It is not a one or zero thing. From the expansion of the market, obviously MOST people would like a LOWER amount of risks. That is no reason why developers should go back to the niche high risk market.
Yes, because as I stated earlier the expansion of the market is mainly the console kids brought to MMO's via WoW that are use to little risk. They are use to the console games that don't truly have any long-term detrimental effects on their characters. Their are a few games out their in the console market that do, but very few.
Long-term effects have been in MMO's since their birth because they are NOT console games. They are ever evolving, digitally breathing worlds that are persistent , and suppose to mimic life to a point. Where your decisions can make or break you. That's the point I think you are either missing, or simply ignoring. The fact that it IS fun to know in a given situation that you have to THINK about your actions, because it could cause your character short and/or long term efects that may or may not be reversable. Their is no instant "reset to the land of sunshine and rainbows" button if you decide to be a moron and attack something or someone 10 levels higher than you, or try getting through an area packed with dangerous mobs, but didn't think of a planned safe route and instead tried to Leroy Jenkins (term you should be familiar with) it through.
What detracts immersion and the fun out of MMO's for long-time veterans of the genre is the new developer's lean towards low risk. It causes the above mentioned senerios amongst others. That's why I left WoW. I felt as though I was paying $15 a month for virtual daycare services because their was so little risk in anything you did that nearly everyone acted like idiots because their was nothing to worry about. Unless you weren't a raid addict and had to PvP in greens and blues, in which you risked dying to any purple wearer 99.9% of the time. That's about it. Other than that, you could rezz at safe points, pay a barely noticeable repair bill for your gear, get no xp loss upon death, etc, etc. Where is the fun in it? Or the thrill of having a heroic victory, or truly crushing defeat...other than those that smacktard talked?
Low risk kills lots of things, it kills immersion, it kills dependency on other players, (remember corpse retrievals in eq?) and frankly it kills the stimulation of the game. In EQ, for example if you were about to die somewhere far away from civilization, youd think to yourself "oh crap, oh crap, theres no way in hell Im gonna get a rez way out there, hell I dont know if I can get back out here naked to get my corpse alone".
Remember when games actaully affected your heart rate?
YES! Now they are just mindless treadmills for all of the gerbils to go in circles on, and the player doesn't even notice, or care it seems. I guess it's because they didn't get to experience it.
Can't be bothered to do much research but if this game has reasonably free pvp, ship loss on death (with noob ship given as replacement) and full or partial looting of cargo (partial being the rest is destroyed) then I will play it, otherwise I will not.
Who in their right mind would want to pve in space?
EDIT: After reading some of the responses, Elite is one of my all time favorate games, in that game I could attack anything even the space stations and there was always a chance of being ambushed by pirates or Thargoids. This game needs to be same except that those pirates are players not AI.
Please devs do not listen to these retards. There are enough care bear crap fest games out there already. We do not need another.
Consequence free PvP is not PvP.
Well.....at least not FUN PvP. Nothing gets your heart racing like being in a close battle and knowing you are going to either lose experience and possible items, or gain them from your opponent.
Dear Developers: I am constantly amazed that MMO games get developed with a strong emphasis on PVP. Frankly, i HATE PVP. Not that I am aginst one on one, which is somewhat honorable,but usually PVP turns out to be a gank fest of 6 on one or it starts after a player is engaged in RVR,which is also unfair.. The most successful MMORPG game in history is WOW. Why not adopt their strategy? Have some servers with very limited PVP unless consensual and some with wide open PVP except for starting areas. This would appeal to everyone. Also, as with WOW, instead of forcing folks into PVP, you can have a few ( and I mean a very few) zones that are PVP oriented and give some good rewards. Thus, you would be using the carrot vs. the stick approach. You can even have special PVP events found in "arena" types of zones. If you are going to put PVP in all servers, then at least make it painless with cheap insurance or little penalty for ship destruction, If you want to maximize your player potential and therefore profitability, you will adopt my suggestions.
Just because you don't like PVP games doesn't mean that everyone else does and some games should be PvP based, others PvE and some mixed.
We seen way to many trying to copy Wow, and they have all fallen quite badly. We need different kinds of games, with new fresh ideas. Just because Wow is succesful doesn't mean that copying it ideas (which they themselves in many cases took from older games) is a good idea. Wow is 4 1/2 years old, Everquest is 10. Using their ideas will bring nothing good, players will just return to Wow instead.
On the other hand, you should be careful so the game don't turn in to a zergfeast but there are many other ways to do this than copying Wow.
Wow is a good game but taking the ideas of a good game isn't always a good idea in it self. Wow is very polished so if a game get's to close to it, why would anyone play the new game with litle content instead of the old polished game with loads of content?
There are games with a lot better PvP than Wow, like Guildwars. Many of the wow players I know still play GW for their PvP fix and then play Wow for PvE.
Wow is a good game but taking the ideas of a good game isn't always a good idea in it self. Wow is very polished so if a game get's to close to it, why would anyone play the new game with litle content instead of the old polished game with loads of content?
This argument applies to other fantasy games, but not JGE. The answer is simple. There is NO spaceship game like wow. That itself would be new.
Wow is a good game but taking the ideas of a good game isn't always a good idea in it self. Wow is very polished so if a game get's to close to it, why would anyone play the new game with litle content instead of the old polished game with loads of content?
This argument applies to other fantasy games, but not JGE. The answer is simple. There is NO spaceship game like wow. That itself would be new.
Dear Developers: I am constantly amazed that MMO games get developed with a strong emphasis on PVP. Frankly, i HATE PVP. Not that I am aginst one on one, which is somewhat honorable,but usually PVP turns out to be a gank fest of 6 on one or it starts after a player is engaged in RVR,which is also unfair.. The most successful MMORPG game in history is WOW. Why not adopt their strategy? Have some servers with very limited PVP unless consensual and some with wide open PVP except for starting areas. This would appeal to everyone. Also, as with WOW, instead of forcing folks into PVP, you can have a few ( and I mean a very few) zones that are PVP oriented and give some good rewards. Thus, you would be using the carrot vs. the stick approach. You can even have special PVP events found in "arena" types of zones. If you are going to put PVP in all servers, then at least make it painless with cheap insurance or little penalty for ship destruction, If you want to maximize your player potential and therefore profitability, you will adopt my suggestions.
Lol, 20 pages, obviously you did a good job at trolling these boards I applaud you....
Some games have somethings that are good... if a developer would take the good from several different games and find a way to incorperate them into their game it would be a decent game start.
EVE, has a couple of good things going for it.
1- The player economy system is honestly second to none.
2- the scale of the actual space is actually felt, and the fact that the game has been out longer than WoW or many of the games online currently.
WoW, as much as I hate the fanatism behind this GAME, it does have several good points.
1- oddly enough lots of diversity in chareter development
2- ADVERTISING, ADVERTISING, ADVERTISING!
Galactic Civilizations, Offline stratagy game, had something that I havent seen in a space MMO yet.
-player customizable ships, they still worked like the core design, but the player can change some things... add minor things or move them as they wanted. It added, some variation to the game. And in a space MMO it would add a HUGE amount of variation.
Star Wars Online, At one time had alot of NEW and different ideas, some were liked, others were hated.
-As much as I know people hate the concept of.... PERMA-DEATH....
-Avatar seperate from the ship... OH the ability to walk around a station or planet and just be OUTSIDE the ship would be great... instead of being known by the ship you fly.
Perma-death keeps players pretty honest, and puts fear into them to keep them from doing stupid things that often lead to more stupid things. Now mind you it doesnt have to be like SWO with the Jedi 3 times your dead rule, but something along the lines of, if you dont stop and do some core repairs on your ship you are D-E-A-D. You could prevent it by just by takeing a few minutes at a starbase, and fixing your ship after you die, instead of leaving and getting killed RIGHT away.
Other things that alot of games have done...
-Making it twitch based space combat, where you can use a joystick to control your ship not just a mouse and keyboard.
-1st person pov from inside the cockpit of your ship.
-REAL space physics. Once in motion you will remain in motion till something changes that.
-PvP in boarder regions, not EVERYWHERE ALL THE TIME. But make a end game, where there are times when the boarders can flux and be pushed by the players.
These are just a few things that could make a good game. There is MANY MANY more things you could add to this list.
This thread is still alive? By the way any new info about a beta or when its being released a link would be nice
In the next couple of weeks, NetDevil will be setting up their billing and account management systems for the US side of things. Then US community members will be asked to re-register in order to get their details into the system for the beta. This has caused...some uproar on the forums but nothing we've not seen before.
So to me, that's a BIG step towards beta. Still no firm date but it's a positive sign than soon(tm) may be sooner than we expect!
Since I started this thread, I thought I would comment on alll these posts.
As you can see , if there are any developers reading these posts, that there are folks who have very strong opinions both ways. What I said about having some PVP servers and some just PVE or limited PvP on all servers is especially the right way to go. Certainly, if you were unconvinced of my arguments in post one, you should clearly see now that I was right. The PVE folks tend to be more open minded and tolerant,while the PVP folks , for the most part, aren't.
What is clear from these posts is that you have a large base going both ways. Having different servers that appeal to both types of folks has got to be the way to attract a larger player base. Simply going into hardcore PVP on all servers has got to be a huge financial mistake as it was with Pirates of the Burning Sea. Read over all these posts. You will see I am "right on " with my suggestions in post number one.
WoW has the worst approach to PvP. PvP is simply going to have no depth and be uninteresting if its simply some carebear switch you can turn on only when you feel like it. Thats fine for a PvE game, but if a game is going to have a PvP emphasis, like the original JG did, PvP needs to be in the core of the game and integrated into everything....mainly focused on open world/universe PvP rather than instances and scenarios.
I prefer instancing for PvP, it's easier to get a balanced and readily accessable fight.
Otherwise you just get into mindnumbingly boring PvP such as Eve where you spend 5 hours organising an epic battle which fails to even kick off because one side of the fight is so scared it will become a gank fest with him the victim.
5 hours later I've seen a few jumpgates. Moved my spaceship hours away from anywhere I want to be and had the pleasure of trash talking a complete stranger on the internet who then logged off.
Life is too short.
Proper instances please with well thought objectives and well balanced maps with enviroments that are consequential and tactical to the fight.
Like the tunnels in a Death Star for the fighters for example and those trenches. Asteroid fields. Pirate bases. Old space hulks.
Please, not just free for all deathmatch in front of a nice looking planetscape. If this is going to be a game that focus's on PvP then it should provide as many PvP gametypes as possible. Put some thought and content into it.
Well from what I have read on the site more than likely its going to be PvE PvP hybrid servers, or PvE only servers and PvP servers, but probably with Safe Zones. By thier wording they are going for mass appeal ( think WoW ) they even mention WoW so It's a no brainer they are trying to make wow clone in space. Too bad Jumpgate was pretty fun. I guess when they release it they can rename it ( Jumpgate the peaceful years ).
Please make the game FFA PVP, 100% Looting, No Instances, and allow players to live and play within their ships and/or houses. And let there be planetary play AS WELL AS spaceship play. - Phos
Yes, please do this so you and the three other people who will play this game can have loads of fun.
EVE Online had 47k peak concurrent users last time I checked, thats a little bit more then 4 no?
If you going to make JGE a WoW clone it will fail, just look at all the other releases that tried to copy WoW.
The best example is Warhammer Online, only now, when the Devs are starting to realise they copied too much of WoW and are focussing on the RVR again, is the game getting better ( and the subs comming back and/or staying )
If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site : http://mmodata.blogspot.be/ Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online
Although if I was a dev and looking to copy any game, I would be looking to copy the one with 11.5 million concurrent subscribers not 47 thousand concurrent users.
Directly competing in an established market of only 200,000 players on exactly the same gametypes isn't all that smart.
I think you would have to be a total fool not to realise that WoW has some very good elements to it. Many of them entirely worth copying. In the end if you are making an MMORPG game you will be copying the genre to a large extent. Be it Eve, WoW, Warhammer, whatever.
The games are all copies of eachother it's only the skillfulness of the execution that differentiates. Should this game make as many sales as Warhammer or hold as many subs as that game does, WoW copy or not, I'm sure the developers will be very pleased with themselves.
Last I heard Eve online already exists. Although if I was a dev and looking to copy any game, I would be looking to copy the one with 11.5 million concurrent subscribers not 47 thousand concurrent users. Directly competing in an established market of only 200,000 players on exactly the same gametypes isn't all that smart.
I think you would have to be a total fool not to realise that WoW has some very good elements to it. Many of them entirely worth copying. In the end if you are making an MMORPG game you will be copying the genre to a large extent. Be it Eve, WoW, Warhammer, whatever. The games are all copies of eachother it's only the skillfulness of the execution that differentiates. Should this game make as many sales as Warhammer or hold as many subs as that game does, WoW copy or not, I'm sure the developers will be very pleased with themselves.
Uhm yes EVE Online exists, and what is your point? WoW exists as well ...
But EVE is not only a sandbox, it is also a sci fi game and it has a couple of features not that many people like, for one, no avatars, and secondly, time based skills, and it still has 250k subs ...
Devs are trying to target the WoW market all the time, but it is hard to steal this crowd away from WoW.
While on the other hand there are few well executed sandbox / pvp mmorpg's out there and there is a market for it imho, just take the 300k SWG pre-cu-nge subs ... and SWG pre-cu-nge was quite buggy with not much content.
It would be totally hilarius and pretty cool when Blizzard makes a Starcraft sandbox mmorpg with more risky PvP, it would be pretty clever as well, they would probably do a good job at it and totally dominate the market on all fronts
If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site : http://mmodata.blogspot.be/ Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online
Comments
Jumpgate should not be aiming at the MMO market, most of the Ex freelancer and freespace 2 community has been begging and wishing for a decent replacement. If the game does not have grind based advancement and good pvp it will appeal to GAMERs and they will find a larger and more loyal player base than WoW refugees who only stay for a few weeks.
Currently playing:
EVE online (Ruining low sec one hotdrop at a time)
Gravity Rush,
Dishonoured: The Knife of Dunwall.
(Waiting for) Metro: Last Light,
Company of Heroes II.
The point of playing a game is to have fun. Not to be rewards, but to be entertained from the playing of the game itself.
Many people have fun with games that challenge you and offers risks, many do not. Most mmos are aimed at the ones who do not.. no good mmo for risk has come out in years. Let the riskers have a game for once, instead of boohooing at the devs until they cave in and make yet another kiddy game
It is not a one or zero thing. From the expansion of the market, obviously MOST people would like a LOWER amount of risks. That is no reason why developers should go back to the niche high risk market.
The point of playing a game is to have fun. Not to be rewards, but to be entertained from the playing of the game itself.
Many people have fun with games that challenge you and offers risks, many do not. Most mmos are aimed at the ones who do not.. no good mmo for risk has come out in years. Let the riskers have a game for once, instead of boohooing at the devs until they cave in and make yet another kiddy game
It is not a one or zero thing. From the expansion of the market, obviously MOST people would like a LOWER amount of risks. That is no reason why developers should go back to the niche high risk market.
Yes, because as I stated earlier the expansion of the market is mainly the console kids brought to MMO's via WoW that are use to little risk. They are use to the console games that don't truly have any long-term detrimental effects on their characters. Their are a few games out their in the console market that do, but very few.
Long-term effects have been in MMO's since their birth because they are NOT console games. They are ever evolving, digitally breathing worlds that are persistent , and suppose to mimic life to a point. Where your decisions can make or break you. That's the point I think you are either missing, or simply ignoring. The fact that it IS fun to know in a given situation that you have to THINK about your actions, because it could cause your character short and/or long term efects that may or may not be reversable. Their is no instant "reset to the land of sunshine and rainbows" button if you decide to be a moron and attack something or someone 10 levels higher than you, or try getting through an area packed with dangerous mobs, but didn't think of a planned safe route and instead tried to Leroy Jenkins (term you should be familiar with) it through.
What detracts immersion and the fun out of MMO's for long-time veterans of the genre is the new developer's lean towards low risk. It causes the above mentioned senerios amongst others. That's why I left WoW. I felt as though I was paying $15 a month for virtual daycare services because their was so little risk in anything you did that nearly everyone acted like idiots because their was nothing to worry about. Unless you weren't a raid addict and had to PvP in greens and blues(If you even want to really call it PvP), in which you risked dying to any purple wearer 99.9% of the time. That's about it. Other than that, you could rezz at safe points, pay a barely noticeable repair bill for your gear, get no xp loss upon death, etc, etc. Where is the fun in it? Or the thrill of having a heroic victory, or truly crushing defeat...other than those that smacktard talked?
The point of playing a game is to have fun. Not to be rewards, but to be entertained from the playing of the game itself.
Many people have fun with games that challenge you and offers risks, many do not. Most mmos are aimed at the ones who do not.. no good mmo for risk has come out in years. Let the riskers have a game for once, instead of boohooing at the devs until they cave in and make yet another kiddy game
It is not a one or zero thing. From the expansion of the market, obviously MOST people would like a LOWER amount of risks. That is no reason why developers should go back to the niche high risk market.
Yes, because as I stated earlier the expansion of the market is mainly the console kids brought to MMO's via WoW that are use to little risk. They are use to the console games that don't truly have any long-term detrimental effects on their characters. Their are a few games out their in the console market that do, but very few.
Long-term effects have been in MMO's since their birth because they are NOT console games. They are ever evolving, digitally breathing worlds that are persistent , and suppose to mimic life to a point. Where your decisions can make or break you. That's the point I think you are either missing, or simply ignoring. The fact that it IS fun to know in a given situation that you have to THINK about your actions, because it could cause your character short and/or long term efects that may or may not be reversable. Their is no instant "reset to the land of sunshine and rainbows" button if you decide to be a moron and attack something or someone 10 levels higher than you, or try getting through an area packed with dangerous mobs, but didn't think of a planned safe route and instead tried to Leroy Jenkins (term you should be familiar with) it through.
What detracts immersion and the fun out of MMO's for long-time veterans of the genre is the new developer's lean towards low risk. It causes the above mentioned senerios amongst others. That's why I left WoW. I felt as though I was paying $15 a month for virtual daycare services because their was so little risk in anything you did that nearly everyone acted like idiots because their was nothing to worry about. Unless you weren't a raid addict and had to PvP in greens and blues, in which you risked dying to any purple wearer 99.9% of the time. That's about it. Other than that, you could rezz at safe points, pay a barely noticeable repair bill for your gear, get no xp loss upon death, etc, etc. Where is the fun in it? Or the thrill of having a heroic victory, or truly crushing defeat...other than those that smacktard talked?
Low risk kills lots of things, it kills immersion, it kills dependency on other players, (remember corpse retrievals in eq?) and frankly it kills the stimulation of the game. In EQ, for example if you were about to die somewhere far away from civilization, youd think to yourself "oh crap, oh crap, theres no way in hell Im gonna get a rez way out there, hell I dont know if I can get back out here naked to get my corpse alone".
Remember when games actaully affected your heart rate?
The point of playing a game is to have fun. Not to be rewards, but to be entertained from the playing of the game itself.
Many people have fun with games that challenge you and offers risks, many do not. Most mmos are aimed at the ones who do not.. no good mmo for risk has come out in years. Let the riskers have a game for once, instead of boohooing at the devs until they cave in and make yet another kiddy game
It is not a one or zero thing. From the expansion of the market, obviously MOST people would like a LOWER amount of risks. That is no reason why developers should go back to the niche high risk market.
Yes, because as I stated earlier the expansion of the market is mainly the console kids brought to MMO's via WoW that are use to little risk. They are use to the console games that don't truly have any long-term detrimental effects on their characters. Their are a few games out their in the console market that do, but very few.
Long-term effects have been in MMO's since their birth because they are NOT console games. They are ever evolving, digitally breathing worlds that are persistent , and suppose to mimic life to a point. Where your decisions can make or break you. That's the point I think you are either missing, or simply ignoring. The fact that it IS fun to know in a given situation that you have to THINK about your actions, because it could cause your character short and/or long term efects that may or may not be reversable. Their is no instant "reset to the land of sunshine and rainbows" button if you decide to be a moron and attack something or someone 10 levels higher than you, or try getting through an area packed with dangerous mobs, but didn't think of a planned safe route and instead tried to Leroy Jenkins (term you should be familiar with) it through.
What detracts immersion and the fun out of MMO's for long-time veterans of the genre is the new developer's lean towards low risk. It causes the above mentioned senerios amongst others. That's why I left WoW. I felt as though I was paying $15 a month for virtual daycare services because their was so little risk in anything you did that nearly everyone acted like idiots because their was nothing to worry about. Unless you weren't a raid addict and had to PvP in greens and blues, in which you risked dying to any purple wearer 99.9% of the time. That's about it. Other than that, you could rezz at safe points, pay a barely noticeable repair bill for your gear, get no xp loss upon death, etc, etc. Where is the fun in it? Or the thrill of having a heroic victory, or truly crushing defeat...other than those that smacktard talked?
Low risk kills lots of things, it kills immersion, it kills dependency on other players, (remember corpse retrievals in eq?) and frankly it kills the stimulation of the game. In EQ, for example if you were about to die somewhere far away from civilization, youd think to yourself "oh crap, oh crap, theres no way in hell Im gonna get a rez way out there, hell I dont know if I can get back out here naked to get my corpse alone".
Remember when games actaully affected your heart rate?
YES! Now they are just mindless treadmills for all of the gerbils to go in circles on, and the player doesn't even notice, or care it seems. I guess it's because they didn't get to experience it.
Can't be bothered to do much research but if this game has reasonably free pvp, ship loss on death (with noob ship given as replacement) and full or partial looting of cargo (partial being the rest is destroyed) then I will play it, otherwise I will not.
Who in their right mind would want to pve in space?
EDIT: After reading some of the responses, Elite is one of my all time favorate games, in that game I could attack anything even the space stations and there was always a chance of being ambushed by pirates or Thargoids. This game needs to be same except that those pirates are players not AI.
Please devs do not listen to these retards. There are enough care bear crap fest games out there already. We do not need another.
Consequence free PvP is not PvP.
Well.....at least not FUN PvP. Nothing gets your heart racing like being in a close battle and knowing you are going to either lose experience and possible items, or gain them from your opponent.
Just because you don't like PVP games doesn't mean that everyone else does and some games should be PvP based, others PvE and some mixed.
We seen way to many trying to copy Wow, and they have all fallen quite badly. We need different kinds of games, with new fresh ideas. Just because Wow is succesful doesn't mean that copying it ideas (which they themselves in many cases took from older games) is a good idea. Wow is 4 1/2 years old, Everquest is 10. Using their ideas will bring nothing good, players will just return to Wow instead.
On the other hand, you should be careful so the game don't turn in to a zergfeast but there are many other ways to do this than copying Wow.
Wow is a good game but taking the ideas of a good game isn't always a good idea in it self. Wow is very polished so if a game get's to close to it, why would anyone play the new game with litle content instead of the old polished game with loads of content?
There are games with a lot better PvP than Wow, like Guildwars. Many of the wow players I know still play GW for their PvP fix and then play Wow for PvE.
Wow has better PVE than PvP. And most peple like pvp games.
This argument applies to other fantasy games, but not JGE. The answer is simple. There is NO spaceship game like wow. That itself would be new.
This argument applies to other fantasy games, but not JGE. The answer is simple. There is NO spaceship game like wow. That itself would be new.
Thank God.
Why would anyone in their right minds adopt a PvP policy from a PvE game...
Darkfall Travelogues!
Lol, 20 pages, obviously you did a good job at trolling these boards I applaud you....
sorry, i just had to add this comment of me laughing...hand't read topic yet. *insert laughing*
Howabout people look at it this way....
Some games have somethings that are good... if a developer would take the good from several different games and find a way to incorperate them into their game it would be a decent game start.
EVE, has a couple of good things going for it.
1- The player economy system is honestly second to none.
2- the scale of the actual space is actually felt, and the fact that the game has been out longer than WoW or many of the games online currently.
WoW, as much as I hate the fanatism behind this GAME, it does have several good points.
1- oddly enough lots of diversity in chareter development
2- ADVERTISING, ADVERTISING, ADVERTISING!
Galactic Civilizations, Offline stratagy game, had something that I havent seen in a space MMO yet.
-player customizable ships, they still worked like the core design, but the player can change some things... add minor things or move them as they wanted. It added, some variation to the game. And in a space MMO it would add a HUGE amount of variation.
Star Wars Online, At one time had alot of NEW and different ideas, some were liked, others were hated.
-As much as I know people hate the concept of.... PERMA-DEATH....
-Avatar seperate from the ship... OH the ability to walk around a station or planet and just be OUTSIDE the ship would be great... instead of being known by the ship you fly.
Perma-death keeps players pretty honest, and puts fear into them to keep them from doing stupid things that often lead to more stupid things. Now mind you it doesnt have to be like SWO with the Jedi 3 times your dead rule, but something along the lines of, if you dont stop and do some core repairs on your ship you are D-E-A-D. You could prevent it by just by takeing a few minutes at a starbase, and fixing your ship after you die, instead of leaving and getting killed RIGHT away.
Other things that alot of games have done...
-Making it twitch based space combat, where you can use a joystick to control your ship not just a mouse and keyboard.
-1st person pov from inside the cockpit of your ship.
-REAL space physics. Once in motion you will remain in motion till something changes that.
-PvP in boarder regions, not EVERYWHERE ALL THE TIME. But make a end game, where there are times when the boarders can flux and be pushed by the players.
These are just a few things that could make a good game. There is MANY MANY more things you could add to this list.
So much crap, so little quality.
This thread is still alive? By the way any new info about a beta or when its being released a link would be nice
In the next couple of weeks, NetDevil will be setting up their billing and account management systems for the US side of things. Then US community members will be asked to re-register in order to get their details into the system for the beta. This has caused...some uproar on the forums but nothing we've not seen before.
So to me, that's a BIG step towards beta. Still no firm date but it's a positive sign than soon(tm) may be sooner than we expect!
~ Hobyah Press ~ Wyldlands Celtic & Iron Age RPG ~
Since I started this thread, I thought I would comment on alll these posts.
As you can see , if there are any developers reading these posts, that there are folks who have very strong opinions both ways. What I said about having some PVP servers and some just PVE or limited PvP on all servers is especially the right way to go. Certainly, if you were unconvinced of my arguments in post one, you should clearly see now that I was right. The PVE folks tend to be more open minded and tolerant,while the PVP folks , for the most part, aren't.
What is clear from these posts is that you have a large base going both ways. Having different servers that appeal to both types of folks has got to be the way to attract a larger player base. Simply going into hardcore PVP on all servers has got to be a huge financial mistake as it was with Pirates of the Burning Sea. Read over all these posts. You will see I am "right on " with my suggestions in post number one.
WoW has the worst approach to PvP. PvP is simply going to have no depth and be uninteresting if its simply some carebear switch you can turn on only when you feel like it. Thats fine for a PvE game, but if a game is going to have a PvP emphasis, like the original JG did, PvP needs to be in the core of the game and integrated into everything....mainly focused on open world/universe PvP rather than instances and scenarios.
I prefer instancing for PvP, it's easier to get a balanced and readily accessable fight.
Otherwise you just get into mindnumbingly boring PvP such as Eve where you spend 5 hours organising an epic battle which fails to even kick off because one side of the fight is so scared it will become a gank fest with him the victim.
5 hours later I've seen a few jumpgates. Moved my spaceship hours away from anywhere I want to be and had the pleasure of trash talking a complete stranger on the internet who then logged off.
Life is too short.
Proper instances please with well thought objectives and well balanced maps with enviroments that are consequential and tactical to the fight.
Like the tunnels in a Death Star for the fighters for example and those trenches. Asteroid fields. Pirate bases. Old space hulks.
Please, not just free for all deathmatch in front of a nice looking planetscape. If this is going to be a game that focus's on PvP then it should provide as many PvP gametypes as possible. Put some thought and content into it.
Well from what I have read on the site more than likely its going to be PvE PvP hybrid servers, or PvE only servers and PvP servers, but probably with Safe Zones. By thier wording they are going for mass appeal ( think WoW ) they even mention WoW so It's a no brainer they are trying to make wow clone in space. Too bad Jumpgate was pretty fun. I guess when they release it they can rename it ( Jumpgate the peaceful years ).
Sad.
Yes, please do this so you and the three other people who will play this game can have loads of fun.
EVE Online had 47k peak concurrent users last time I checked, thats a little bit more then 4 no?
If you going to make JGE a WoW clone it will fail, just look at all the other releases that tried to copy WoW.
The best example is Warhammer Online, only now, when the Devs are starting to realise they copied too much of WoW and are focussing on the RVR again, is the game getting better ( and the subs comming back and/or staying )
If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site :
http://mmodata.blogspot.be/
Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online
Last I heard Eve online already exists.
Although if I was a dev and looking to copy any game, I would be looking to copy the one with 11.5 million concurrent subscribers not 47 thousand concurrent users.
Directly competing in an established market of only 200,000 players on exactly the same gametypes isn't all that smart.
I think you would have to be a total fool not to realise that WoW has some very good elements to it. Many of them entirely worth copying. In the end if you are making an MMORPG game you will be copying the genre to a large extent. Be it Eve, WoW, Warhammer, whatever.
The games are all copies of eachother it's only the skillfulness of the execution that differentiates. Should this game make as many sales as Warhammer or hold as many subs as that game does, WoW copy or not, I'm sure the developers will be very pleased with themselves.
Uhm yes EVE Online exists, and what is your point? WoW exists as well ...
But EVE is not only a sandbox, it is also a sci fi game and it has a couple of features not that many people like, for one, no avatars, and secondly, time based skills, and it still has 250k subs ...
Devs are trying to target the WoW market all the time, but it is hard to steal this crowd away from WoW.
While on the other hand there are few well executed sandbox / pvp mmorpg's out there and there is a market for it imho, just take the 300k SWG pre-cu-nge subs ... and SWG pre-cu-nge was quite buggy with not much content.
It would be totally hilarius and pretty cool when Blizzard makes a Starcraft sandbox mmorpg with more risky PvP, it would be pretty clever as well, they would probably do a good job at it and totally dominate the market on all fronts
If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site :
http://mmodata.blogspot.be/
Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online