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8 years? Think about it.
I don't understand why this has everyone's panties in a knot. Darkfall is and has been an indie project developed by a tiny team with minimal funds. Say what you will, but all of those trying to label Darkfall and Adventurine as failures, deceitful, or corrupt should attend the Indie MMO Developer conference (www.imgdc.com/), and have a conversation with some of the guys there.
For a team half the size and a quarter of the budget of an ordinary MMO development studio to create their own engine technology, and develop a playable game (especially one of this size) in 8 years is fairly impressive. To be quite honest, I'm surprised it hasn't taken longer.
What most of you fail to recongize is that most AAA (Triple A) MMOs require 4-6 years of development time, and that, might I remind you is after they've already purchased a game engine, and middleware solutions to go along with it.
Just think about all that Adventurine has done before you start whining about things you don't fully understand.
Comments
Uhhhh, before you start praising Aventurine and all the greatness that they have accomplished, it might be WISE to actually let the game launch and see what happens (or doesn't happen) and then praise them accordingly.
- just some helpful advice to maybe save you from looking bigtime foolish.
Uhhhh, before you start praising Aventurine and all the greatness that they have accomplished, it might be WISE to actually let the game launch and see what happens (or doesn't happen) and then praise them accordingly.
- just some helpful advice to maybe save you from looking bigtime foolish.
Praise? I've not praised Adventurine, I've just stated that this 8 year venture of theirs isn't nearly as abnormal as people make it out to be.
In 8 years you could easily teach yourself coding and 3D designing and make Darkfall in it's current state all by yourself. Perhaps even something better.
Why do you even bother to explain things trolls dont care? Its a matter of taste deep down anyway. Same way I prefer microbrewries instead of Bud/Heineken, or Indie devs instead of flashy korean graphics. Thats not for the average world citizen, i guess.
Anyway. It is true that the final product should concern the consumer, not the story behind it.
see you in game
Yes it's amazing they did so much in such short time. Just imagine what can they do in 30 years...
/facepalm statement of the decade
It's Aventurine, champ. Although, they certainly are in for one hell of an adventure, relatively speaking.
Might be a good idea to actually know the name of the company before you pitch the "things you don't fully understand" stone again. Food for thought.
Nope, you couldnt.
I already know my way around 3ds max 2009, Maya and Zbrush and ill tell you, you need lots of people or you need lots of time, thats just how it is.
-Darkstar
Maybe you should address this to all the fanboys who seem to think that its gonna be the next big thing since slice bread. So far all that has been shown are just ideas and concepts on paper. And most of the screen shots and "leaked" gameplay footage are at best, mediocre.
I have thought about it. crap is crap, whether it is made by an indie dev or a AAA one, 8 years in the making or 4-6.
"It is my opinion, that my opinions are always right"
Fully agree with the OP. Too bad though, that they went so wrong on planning and promises. I guess most of the haters here wouldn't have issues with a long dev time if Aventurine would have got the planning right to begin with. But then again ... it is kinda hard to plan huge projects like this, especially if you haven't done it before, funding is a problem and you have to do almost everything yourself.
My brand new bloggity blog.
Oh man- he misspelt the name of the company, well that just throws everything else he says into doubt, eh!?
Perhaps you should google "wiki darkfall" and have a look at the development history.
Then you would know what people are really anoyed with, and you would know that your post here is addressed at only a very tiny group of haters (who you should not be giving any attention anyway).
Most people who are anoyed by the development time of Darkfall are especially concerned about the last 2 years, not about the whole 8 years.
Whats so exciting about posting the same thign again and again about Darkfail?
I mean everyone knows adventurine isnt a real company, just a few rich peeps tripping about making a game. So quit the fan talk and lets wait fro realease (only a few more years to wait).
I'm not a no life that sits in front of his computer all day long, I'm an intern that sits in front of his computer all day long.
Indies should not be developing MMORPG's. Especially not one as feature rich as Darkfall wanted to be.
One of the reasons why Darkfall is a failure or will be is because it was developed by indies.
End of story.
I understand what they've done
its just not enough for me
Just when you think you have all the answers, I change the questions.
You are spot on. Even try creating a small low budget game in 6-8 months with a few friends. This is hard stuff they are doing.
Also you said half the team! WAR at one point had 400 people working on it. AoC had like 50+ outsourced artists creating content, the World graphics, etc.
Couldn't OP just have replied to one of gazillion threads about this?
Ridiculous. You might as well just say mom & pop stores and other small companies shouldn't start up so that Wal-Mart and Target can rule the world.
Nope, you couldnt.
I already know my way around 3ds max 2009, Maya and Zbrush and ill tell you, you need lots of people or you need lots of time, thats just how it is.
-Darkstar
I've done more in prototypes for games I've worked on in Torque then I've seen in any Darkfall video or "leak"... with 2 artists and 1 programmer...
- CaesarsGhost
Lead Gameplay and Gameworld Designer for a yet unnamed MMO Title.
"When people tell me designing a game is easy, I try to get them to design a board game. Most people don't last 5 minutes, the rest rarely last more then a day. The final few realize it's neither fun nor easy."
Well, first... if you read the threads from those who aren't simply bashing DF or AV, but raising well-supported concerns and criticisms, you'll find that none of them are faulting AV for being an indie company.
For myself, I like seeing smaller-scale projects like this as I'm a full believer that it's the smaller indie companies who are most likely to bring about something new and different. The larger companies are too wrapped up in "bottom line" and "reducing risk" to take chances on something different (at least the 'Western' companies). Of course, just because an indie company is doing it doesn't mean it *will* work out.
To be clear, I'm not addressing nor defending the true "trolls" here who simply say "DF will fail" and "DF will suck" and all that, with nothing to explain why... They're no better than the raving fanboys at the other end of the spectrum.
That said...
What you'll find are people bringing up specific aspects of DF's development... statements made and not supported, over-the-top comments by Tasos that knowing what condition the game was in, he shouldn't have stated, etc... And so forth. You don't need to be a "professional" developer - or a professional anything really - to know that you don't make comments you're not ready to back up. That's just common sense. Yet, Tasos and/or AV have done just that numerous times during this game's development. The examples are myriad and are easily found with a little searching.
Also, would people stop with the assumptions of what "we fail to realize" or "recognize" or whatever? You have no basis to say any of this. I am fully aware of MMOs being more difficult to develop compared to single player RPGs, etc.. I'm a fan of game design and have done a lot of reading and research on the topic myself over the years. I was part of a start-up indie team developing a RPG for about 1.5 years. I won't claim it makes me "an expert", but I do at least have a little bit of hands-on experience as well.
More to the point... None of that has anything to do with what I discuss 2 paragraphs back here. Again, if Tasos and/or AV had refrained from their comments and claims of "nearing beta!" 6 years ago, or how "DF could release today" two months ago full knowing it hadn't even been properly tested yet, and all the other various statements made over the years, people wouldn't have anything to criticize them for - at least not in that regard.
In short... people are criticizing AV overall and Tasos in particular for having a big mouth that writes checks he and his company aren't prepared to cash. They're casting doubt on the claims made, compared to where the game stands when they're made.
I don't understand why more people don't say "Okay, we love what you guys are doing, but you seriously need to stop with the bold declarations and hyperbole and just focus on finishing the game..." Instead, so many insist on making excuses for Tasos and AV; defending everything they do at every turn.
And finally... "all that Aventurine has done"? What have they done? They've spent ~8 years developing a still unreleased game and made a lot of obviously false or at least highly naive comments. They've managed to stay afloat through it all. They haven't actually *accomplished* anything, yet, until the game is released and the results speak for themselves.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
You guys keep parroting this bullshit, yet I have yet to see one of these "fanboys" that you all hate so much.
The size of the team, money spent, or time taken to develop the game has what to do with the crap Tasos has said exactly? The man has lied repeatedly about the state of the game, beta, launch info, etc. I don't think that has anything to do with being an indie team. It has more to do with business ethics and integrity.
Well, first... if you read the threads from those who aren't simply bashing DF or AV, but raising well-supported concerns and criticisms, you'll find that none of them are faulting AV for being an indie company.
For myself, I like seeing smaller-scale projects like this as I'm a full believer that it's the smaller indie companies who are most likely to bring about something new and different. The larger companies are too wrapped up in "bottom line" and "reducing risk" to take chances on something different (at least the 'Western' companies). Of course, just because an indie company is doing it doesn't mean it *will* work out.
To be clear, I'm not addressing nor defending the true "trolls" here who simply say "DF will fail" and "DF will suck" and all that, with nothing to explain why... They're no better than the raving fanboys at the other end of the spectrum.
That said...
What you'll find are people bringing up specific aspects of DF's development... statements made and not supported, over-the-top comments by Tasos that knowing what condition the game was in, he shouldn't have stated, etc... And so forth. You don't need to be a "professional" developer - or a professional anything really - to know that you don't make comments you're not ready to back up. That's just common sense. Yet, Tasos and/or AV have done just that numerous times during this game's development. The examples are myriad and are easily found with a little searching.
Also, would people stop with the assumptions of what "we fail to realize" or "recognize" or whatever? You have no basis to say any of this. I am fully aware of MMOs being more difficult to develop compared to single player RPGs, etc.. I'm a fan of game design and have done a lot of reading and research on the topic myself over the years. I was part of a start-up indie team developing a RPG for about 1.5 years. I won't claim it makes me "an expert", but I do at least have a little bit of hands-on experience as well.
More to the point... None of that has anything to do with what I discuss 2 paragraphs back here. Again, if Tasos and/or AV had refrained from their comments and claims of "nearing beta!" 6 years ago, or how "DF could release today" two months ago full knowing it hadn't even been properly tested yet, and all the other various statements made over the years, people wouldn't have anything to criticize them for - at least not in that regard.
In short... people are criticizing AV overall and Tasos in particular for having a big mouth that writes checks he and his company aren't prepared to cash. They're casting doubt on the claims made, compared to where the game stands when they're made.
I don't understand why more people don't say "Okay, we love what you guys are doing, but you seriously need to stop with the bold declarations and hyperbole and just focus on finishing the game..." Instead, so many insist on making excuses for Tasos and AV; defending everything they do at every turn.
And finally... "all that Aventurine has done"? What have they done? They've spent ~8 years developing a still unreleased game and made a lot of obviously false or at least highly naive comments. They've managed to stay afloat through it all. They haven't actually *accomplished* anything, yet, until the game is released and the results speak for themselves.
well said.
3.4ghz Phenom II X4 965, 8GB PC12800 DDR3 GSKILL, EVGA 560GTX 2GB OC, 640GB HD SATA II, BFG 1000WATT PSU. MSI NF980-G65 TRI-SLI MOBO.
Tabula Rasa was being developed for 7 years with budget close to $100M...
This is very much a "Leave Britney alone!! Leave her alone!!" moment...
"This is not a game to be tossed aside lightly.
It should be thrown with great force"
I love you guys bashing the game that tell the OP to wait until release, maybe you should follow some of your own advice before getting on a horse and starting a forum crusade. I am not defending the game, but the lack of objectivity and intellectual honesty by a large portion of this forum is laughable.
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