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Pill To Erase Bad Memories
gnomexxx
Member Posts: 2,920
As a person suffering from PTSD right now and having to deal with its absolutely disabilitating effects, I think this is a great discovery. However, I can see how someone who has never experienced what I am going through would think this is a bad idea. I can remember how I thought before going through this. I had no idea what kind of torture the human mind can put a person through after experiencing a horrific experience. Involuntarily putting the person through it over and over again. And then having that person have to feel the guilt, fear, and worthlessness that comes along with it makes the word overwhelming seem inadequate of a description.
Life can change so quickly. It can go from being such a beautiful hopeful thing to a challenge at every turn in no time flat. And if something like this can give some people hope then I'm all for it.
Pill to erase bad memories: Ethical furore over drugs 'that threaten human identity'
By David Derbyshire
Last updated at 12:42 PM on 16th February 2009
A drug which appears to erase painful memories has been developed by scientists.
The astonishing treatment could help sufferers of post-traumatic stress disorder and those whose lives are plagued by hurtful recurrent memories.
But British experts said the breakthrough raises disturbing ethical questions about what makes us human.
They also warned it could have damaging psychological consequences, preventing those who take it from learning from their mistakes.
Dr Daniel Sokol, a lecturer in medical ethics at St George's, University of London, said: 'Removing bad memories is not like removing a wart or a mole. It will change our personal identity since who we are is linked to our memories.
'It may perhaps be beneficial in some cases, but before eradicating memories, we must reflect on the knock-on effects that this will have on individuals, society and our sense of humanity.'
Dutch researchers claim to have erased bad memories by using 'beta-blocker' drugs, which are usually prescribed to patients with heart disease.
Experiments on animals had already shown that the drugs - beta-adrenergic receptor blockers - can interfere with how the brain makes and remakes memories of frightening events.
In the latest study, Dr Merel Kindt of Amsterdam University tested the drugs on 60 men and women.
His team created fearful memories in volunteers by showing them pictures of spiders while giving them gentle electric shocks.
The volunteers were urged to 'actively remember' the images, creating a strong negative association between spiders and discomfort.
The following day the volunteers were split into two groups. One was given the beta blocker and the other a placebo pill before both were shown the same spider pictures.
The researchers recorded the level of fear in the volunteers by playing sudden noises and measuring how strongly they blinked.
A strong startle response showed they were in a fearful state, while a mild response showed they were calm.
The group given the beta blocker had a much weaker fear response than those given the dummy pill, the researchers report in the journal Nature Neuroscience.
A day later - once the drug was out of their systems - their fear response was tested again.
Once more, those given the beta blocker the previous day showed fewer signs of spider phobia, suggesting the memory was completely erased.
Beta blockers appear to work because each time someone recalls a powerful emotional memory the memory is 'remade' by the brain.
The drug interferes with this re-creation of the stressful memory - and prevents the brain renewing it.
In theory, it could eradicate memories of traumatic events that happened years ago. It might also help patients overcome phobias, obsessions, eating disorders and even sexual hang-ups.
Dr Kindt said: 'Traditionally, therapists seek to teach people with such disorders strategies to build new associations and block bad memories but the problem is the memories remain and people often relapse.'
It could be several years before doctors prescribe the drugs for patients with post-traumatic stress disorder.
The scientists say more tests are needed to confirm the drug's memory- erasing properties. Dr Kindt said: 'The next steps are to look at how long the drug's effects on memory last, and testing the treatment in people who actually are suffering from some kind of disorder or phobia.'
But British experts warned the drug raises some difficult questions.
Professor John Harris, an expert in biological ethics at the University of Manchester, said: 'It is obviously up to the individual whether or not she wishes to risk the possible effects, including psychological discontinuity, of erasing unpleasant memories.
'An interesting complexity is the possibility that victims, say of violence, might wish to erase the painful memory and with it their ability to give evidence against assailants.
'Similarly criminals and witnesses to crime may, under the guise of erasing a painful memory, render themselves unable to give evidence.'
Paul Farmer, chief executive of the mental-health charity Mind, said he was concerned about the 'fundamentally pharmacological' approach to problems such as phobias and anxiety.
He told Channel 4 News that the unintended consequences 'could include the eradication of positive memories'.
Professor Neil Burgess of the Institute of Cognitive Neuroscience told the programme that wide-scale use of the drug was a long way off.
'All they've shown so far is that the increased ability to startle someone if they are feeling a bit anxious is reduced,' he said.
The ability to remove memories has been the stuff of science fiction for decades.
In the film Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, which starred Kate Winslet and Jim Carrey, a couple used a technique to erase memories of each other when their relationship turned sour.
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Comments
I can see the use for it in situations such as you've exampled for yourself, but I can also see the possible misuse.
What consitutes a bad memory? Say, for example, if I was a witness in a crime and my testimony was required for prosecution, would my memory be erased when the pill is somehow forced upon me? Or, what of rape victims? The rapist would simply provide a pill for the rapee to forget and simply get away with it. Although such situations may be highly unlikely, it just raises the issue that something developed for the good of man can be used as an evil as well.
Sorry, but it is unethical. The problems one may have with PTSD and similar have to do with the person themselves and their coping skills. I have had many horrific eperiences and entire years of my life lost, the nightmares have me scream and cry in the night and catch me during the day, to this day, and will probably be with me all my life. However, I would never take a pill to erase my memories.
Truth is that ust beyond that, this can cause very serious problems. You can't actually delete a memory without really Fing yourself up and possibly- probably- incurring multiple personalities, etc.
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Sadly, I see storm clouds on the horizon. A faint stench of Vanguard is in the air.-Kien
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2006/12/13/
Well, I would take it to get my life back.
And honestly, I don't think someone could f*ck up my life much worse than it is right now. I'm doing better than I was but there are some times that I'm teetering on a fine line. If it were not for my family I know I would not be here right now. And there are plenty of people like me right now who are not here because they did not have a family like mine. I know of them first hand.
Army to report record number of suicides
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I would hardly say that I have lost my life to the bad events, and time and wisdom will heal most if not all wounds. As I said before, the problems people have are usually to do with their outlook and coping-reasoning skills- the suicides only underscore that. You do not have to have family or friends to have something to fall back on that would prevent suicide.
___________________
Sadly, I see storm clouds on the horizon. A faint stench of Vanguard is in the air.-Kien
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2006/12/13/
Sorry to here that you are going through PTSD.
Just some comments. The treatment seems to be, take the drug then relive the horrors, this leads to a decrease in their reinforcement. The treatment sounds like a rough time, but i can see that the outcome could be worth it.
It is clear that ethical regulation of the treatment process is pretty important. This is however no different than the need for ethical review of psychology/psychiatry.
Whether or not it is "ethical" is none of anybody's business.
If you have a problem with it being unethical, don't take the damn pill.
Other people who don't feel the same way as you do shouldn't be bound by your ridiculous notions of how people should live.
Ethics are arbitrary and do not belong in personal treatments.
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Sounds good at the outset but isn't there an emotional wound from traumatic experiences separate from memory? People can't remember something because they blocked it or split their personality but the problem still exists and their lives aren't normal. What if this pill made them unable to remember in order to face the problem and deal with it the right way? I'm giving it a big thumbs down. Bad experiences can make you stronger if you face them and get healing. This is just our wimpy society finding another way to run from the problem but hey if you wanna puss out then you should have the right to do so.
I'm glad you felt the need to express your opinion on the subject despite having no comprehension of it.
I'd also like to point out that this sort of thing is not new. This pill is just more specialized.
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I'm glad you felt the need to express your opinion on the subject despite having no comprehension of it.
I'd also like to point out that this sort of thing is not new. This pill is just more specialized.
Well does it erase bad memories like the title says or not? What else do I need to know? Or are you saying I don't have bad memories? I mean Uncle Franky was a bad man. lol. Dude if you wanna take something then take it. You shouldn't need people on a gaming board to agree with you.
And who's to say what level of pain someone is going through?
I have heard people say that someone who takes their own life is "weak". I always thought that was complete and utter b.s. For someone to take their own life they have to be in such an intense amount of pain and have found no other way out. Nobody can judge how hard some things hurt other people. Not all of us have lived through clinical depression or had to suffer something like PTSD. I hope I never have to go through that kind of thing or see it in anyone in my family.
If this can help someone then I am not going to judge them if they choose this method. It is much better than them taking a much darker road, killing them self, and then making no more memories for them self at all.
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"They also warned it could have damaging psychological consequences, preventing those who take it from learning from their mistakes."
That's from the article. I don't get that statement. What kind of "mistake" would someone make to get PTSD? People get it from going off to war, living through a rape, seeing a family member murdered, things like that. Those aren't things that are necessarily "mistakes". Some are things that just happen and others are things that we take upon ourselves as part of our civic duty if you give a damn about living in a decent society.
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All Rights Reversed
I think it may be refering to more simplistic things. Like touching a hot stove will burn you, or getting married..etc.
"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a robot foot stomping on a human face -- forever."
A drug and treatment can be used under a lot of different circumstances, not just PTSD.
what about someone that is haunted by the memories of beating his wife because he is a mean drunk? these memories keep him from drinking but make his life hell with the guilt. so he takes the pill to relieve himself of the angst and then ends up doing it again?
Or what if recreation use becomes an issue, screwed up people just burning away their memories and therefore all the morality they ever learned trying to get rid of that elusive memory that the believe makes them unhappy?
The ethical conundrum is who chooses which cases to use the treatment on.
This pill could be a great new way for goverments to cotroll the Civillian population [ i.e. Thought police].
Another great example of Moore's Law. Give people access to that much space (developers and users alike) and they'll find uses for it that you can never imagine. "640K ought to be enough for anybody" - Bill Gates 1981
They're just talking about mistakes in general.
And while this isn't really a mistake, or if this would even be possible, I guess they could get raped by the same person again if the pill erases the bad memoies along with who raped them.
But I really have no idea.
I think you might need this.
I don't anybody should take it until they either have decades worth of testing, or at least an idea of EXACTLY how it works and EXACTLY how it affects other areas of the brain as well as organs etc.
The inane tests they conducted also have convolution factors, such as testing whether the apparent "memory-erasing" effects weren't something more along the lines of a lithium effect..
Speaking of lithium, medical science is still so pathetic that it hasn't even ascertained the exact mechanism of it yet, so taking these pills is like eating one hell of a lottery ticket.
This is a sequence of characters intended to produce some profound mental effect, but it has failed.
www.usatoday.com/news/health/2008-03-09-water_N.htm
A vast array of pharmaceuticals — including antibiotics, anti-convulsants, mood stabilizers and sex hormones — have been found in the drinking water supplies of at least 41 million Americans, an Associated Press investigation shows.
Just what we need a new drug in our enviroment, even better one that makes us forget our problems.
I'm glad you felt the need to express your opinion on the subject despite having no comprehension of it.
I'd also like to point out that this sort of thing is not new. This pill is just more specialized.
Well does it erase bad memories like the title says or not? What else do I need to know? Or are you saying I don't have bad memories? I mean Uncle Franky was a bad man. lol. Dude if you wanna take something then take it. You shouldn't need people on a gaming board to agree with you.
Greymann has a point albeit being a smart alec about it. You need to understand exactly what is being talked about. The pill does NOT remove memories but the associated feelings you get from those memories. Anxiety and high blood pressure associated with post traumatic stress syndrom and other. You will NOT forget. The memories will still be there.
Furthermore the drug has been used for years to lower blood pressure. it's called propanadol and is a beta blocker. The article can easily mislead you into believing we are talking about erasing memories if you just skim through it but that is far from the case.
I'm not goint to waste my time ranting about this.
But I've pretty much had it with UK universities and their "research", they are way too lenient, going way too far and have way too little control. This is especially true for UK research, I don't know why this is, but every single time this involves UK universities.